|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,915 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,915 Likes: 1 |
My salvation is as permanent as the spilt blood of Jesus.
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country."
Robert E. Lee
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,659 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,659 Likes: 1 |
It's called "Amazing Grace', for Good reason. Are you saying that non believers are saved? Once they become Believers. When does that happen? Take a few minutes to find out what Biblical Christianity teaches on that good question in the links of my signature. A man in the N.T. asked a very similar question. A non believer may know what Christianity teaches, may have read the bible, but is not convinced....what then? Just like a lot of things in life, it sometimes takes an open mind and investigation. I like the gospel of John aka St. John as a place to spend the time to anyone searching. It claims to be the one unique book written to convince open-minded unbelievers. John 20:26- https://thekingjamesversionbible.com/john-20There are examples of unbelievers who actually ask God for insight and He answers those seeking truth of Him. The quote came to mind when you asked your other question was from Acts 16. "And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Meaning that his household will be saved if they also choose to believe on Jesus Christ. It's easy to accuse those who disagree with one's beliefs of a closed mind. It may be the believer who is unwilling to consider other possibilities. Nobody argues over matters that have been established through evidence. No reasonable person would doubt the existence of a God given sufficient evidence.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,306 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
|
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,306 Likes: 2 |
Speaking of open minded. Back in the 19th century they used to refer to non- believers as " free thinkers"
Pretty apt .....
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 9,450
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 9,450 |
It's called "Amazing Grace', for Good reason. Are you saying that non believers are saved? Once they become Believers. When does that happen? Take a few minutes to find out what Biblical Christianity teaches on that good question in the links of my signature. A man in the N.T. asked a very similar question. A non believer may know what Christianity teaches, may have read the bible, but is not convinced....what then? Just like a lot of things in life, it sometimes takes an open mind and investigation. I like the gospel of John aka St. John as a place to spend the time to anyone searching. It claims to be the one unique book written to convince open-minded unbelievers. John 20:26- https://thekingjamesversionbible.com/john-20There are examples of unbelievers who actually ask God for insight and He answers those seeking truth of Him. The quote came to mind when you asked your other question was from Acts 16. "And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Meaning that his household will be saved if they also choose to believe on Jesus Christ. It's easy to accuse those who disagree with one's beliefs of a closed mind. It may be the believer who is unwilling to consider other possibilities. Nobody argues over matters that have been established through evidence. No reasonable person would doubt the existence of a God given sufficient evidence. Perhaps I should have put it a different way. A person can be open minded about a lot of things, including the religious/ metaphysical. I meant that concerning those open to the possibility of the existence of a God described by the Bible. PS:...and the reconciliation of God and men through His Son.
Last edited by Happy_Camper; 09/29/21.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 5,804 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 5,804 Likes: 2 |
Speaking of open minded. Back in the 19th century they used to refer to non- believers as " free thinkers"
Pretty apt ..... So what did they call the believers - "captive non-thinkers?"
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,157 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,157 Likes: 4 |
Ask Roy.
The Bible is a pasted together combination of problematic history and wishful thinking based on oral tradition (ever played "whisper"?), many times translated, edited, and "interpreted".
Good luck with that .
Still isn't a bad way to structure one's life - the lessons are good.
I suspect believers and non-believers are going to wind up all the same - just dead.
Last edited by las; 09/29/21.
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 61,011 Likes: 18
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 61,011 Likes: 18 |
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
"May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,130 Likes: 7
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,130 Likes: 7 |
I have to wonder how inspired Romans 13: 1 through 7 is. That would tell us that human government is doing God's good work and we are bound to obey because after all '' he beareth not the sword in vain''. Would our government be doing the good work of God? Hitler? Pol Pot? Kim Jong?
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 9,450
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 9,450 |
This thread is about "How Permanent is Your Salvation?"
So I'm curious Hastings, with the parts you believe, How permanent is Your salvation?
Last edited by Happy_Camper; 09/29/21.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 24,507 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 24,507 Likes: 1 |
Perhaps I should have put it a different way. A person can be open minded about a lot of things, including the religious/ metaphysical. METAPHYSICAL?/!!!!!! I know metaphysical, so now you have my attention. What do you know about metaphysical?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 24,507 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 24,507 Likes: 1 |
Speaking of open minded. Back in the 19th century they used to refer to non- believers as " free thinkers"
Pretty apt ..... I agree 100%
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 24,507 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 24,507 Likes: 1 |
Ask Roy.
The Bible is a pasted together combination of problematic history and wishful thinking based on oral tradition (ever played "whisper"?), many times translated, edited, and "interpreted".
Good luck with that .
Still isn't a bad way to structure one's life - the lessons are good.
I suspect believers and non-believers are going to wind up all the same - just dead. We did the whisper thing in the Military and my experience participating in that class is that you are 100% right on the money. Humans will be humans and each one has their own opinion and those opinions get worked into to the message. I don't necessarily agree with the last part of your sentence. If I was writing what you posted it would read this way..........................I suspect believers and non-believers are going to wind up all the same. And to take it further, if either the believers or the non-believers haven't ascended while still alive( think Elijah, Enoch) then both factions will be recycled.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 9,450
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 9,450 |
I have to wonder how inspired Romans 13: 1 through 7 is. That would tell us that human government is doing God's good work and we are bound to obey because after all '' he beareth not the sword in vain''. Would our government be doing the good work of God? Hitler? Pol Pot? Kim Jong? Do you believe the books of John (gospel/epistle) were inspired by God the Holy Spirit? Here's a clear promise to one specific group of believers. They didn't believe in keeping the law to receive eternal life. They didn't believe in keeping the sacraments ........ They did not even have to try with all their willpower to quit sinning to......... What was the requirement? "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. " I John5:11-13 That sounds familiar doesn't it? Who else said that same thing?
Last edited by Happy_Camper; 09/29/21.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 24,507 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 24,507 Likes: 1 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 23,506
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 23,506 |
I’ve resaved myself 11 times since this thread started.
I’m gold !
🦫
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog
“Molon Labe”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,420 Likes: 12
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,420 Likes: 12 |
It's called "Amazing Grace', for Good reason. Are you saying that non believers are saved? Once they become Believers. When does that happen? Take a few minutes to find out what Biblical Christianity teaches on that good question in the links of my signature. A man in the N.T. asked a very similar question. A non believer may know what Christianity teaches, may have read the bible, but is not convinced....what then? God is omniscient, meaning that he knows everything, past, present, and future. He knows what your final decision will be even if you waver back and forth for 50 years. Jesus said that God calls those who will be saved and those are drawn to him. So how does God know who to call? In Romans 8, it says that those who God foreknows will be called. That means that he knows whether you will chose for him or not. It's not predestination. You still have free choice, but God knows what that choice will be. With that knowledge in advance, he either calls you or he doesn't. The Bible doesn't say when that call will come. It could have already come and you're a work in motion, or maybe it won't come until you're on your deathbed. If you don't get called, don't say that God rejected you. You rejected him and he just knows it before you do.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,130 Likes: 7
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,130 Likes: 7 |
This thread is about "How Permanent is Your Salvation?"
So I'm curious Hastings, with the parts you believe, How permanent is Your salvation? I am going to treat any witness concerning Jesus the same way a court would treat any unreliable witness. His testimony is useless if some of his testimony is false. As I've said before, perjurers attempting to sell a falsehood bring it in under cover of known truth and hope the falsehood can get in without detection. Your selection of 1st John does not absolve Paul even if the two agree there. I'm going to ask you if you think a person with access to and studying the whole bible with the exception of Paul and Hebrews could come to salvation? Can a person study the OT and the teachings of John the Baptist, Jesus, and the rest with the exclusion of Paul come to salvation? Let's say he was alone in a deserted place and someone dropped him the Bible with that part missing?
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 9,450
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 9,450 |
This thread is about "How Permanent is Your Salvation?"
So I'm curious Hastings, with the parts you believe, How permanent is Your salvation? I am going to treat any witness concerning Jesus the same way a court would treat any unreliable witness. His testimony is useless if some of his testimony is false. As I've said before, perjurers attempting to sell a falsehood bring it in under cover of known truth and hope the falsehood can get in without detection. Your selection of 1st John does not absolve Paul even if the two agree there. I'm going to ask you if you think a person with access to and studying the whole bible with the exception of Paul and Hebrews could come to salvation? Can a person study the OT and the teachings of John the Baptist, Jesus, and the rest with the exclusion of Paul come to salvation? Let's say he was alone in a deserted place and someone dropped him the Bible with that part missing? Yes, Of course. The gospel is found throughout the Bible. However, I don't think anyone would get saved without someone who is able to explain it to them. The question I asked you is one example. Did I John 5 sound familiar? I thought it would. It was the same thing that Jesus said to Nicodemus in John 3:15-18. I know you are familiar with and know that. That's a good clear passage I think we agree on Good night
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,380
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,380 |
wife says... Jesus..... is god .... well ?
I work harder than a ugly stripper....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,659 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,659 Likes: 1 |
It's called "Amazing Grace', for Good reason. Are you saying that non believers are saved? Once they become Believers. When does that happen? Take a few minutes to find out what Biblical Christianity teaches on that good question in the links of my signature. A man in the N.T. asked a very similar question. A non believer may know what Christianity teaches, may have read the bible, but is not convinced....what then? God is omniscient, meaning that he knows everything, past, present, and future. He knows what your final decision will be even if you waver back and forth for 50 years. Jesus said that God calls those who will be saved and those are drawn to him. So how does God know who to call? In Romans 8, it says that those who God foreknows will be called. That means that he knows whether you will chose for him or not. It's not predestination. You still have free choice, but God knows what that choice will be. With that knowledge in advance, he either calls you or he doesn't. The Bible doesn't say when that call will come. It could have already come and you're a work in motion, or maybe it won't come until you're on your deathbed. If you don't get called, don't say that God rejected you. You rejected him and he just knows it before you do. My question had nothing to do with 'rejecting God' - not being convinced of something doesn't mean rejection. More to the point, my question was specifically about what is supposed to happen to a non believer once they are presented with proof of the existence of God, in the presence of God, while awaiting judgment. The question being: does a non believers lack of conviction prior to being in the presence of God condemn them? Yes or no?
|
|
|
|
|
152 members (1_deuce, 2500HD, 5sdad, 24HourCampFireGuy50, 10gaugemag, 1beaver_shooter, 26 invisible),
1,927
guests, and
973
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,192,976
Posts18,499,485
Members73,984
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
![[Linked Image from img1.etsystatic.com]](https://img1.etsystatic.com/122/0/5930147/il_570xN.870127883_pkta.jpg)
