24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 4 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Re: Am I overthinking bullet construction? [Re: Oakster] #16542367 10/19/21
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,143
L
Llama_Bob Online Content
Campfire Regular
Online Content
Campfire Regular
L
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,143
The premium bullets that are good for elk etc work fine on smaller game and don't blast so many lead fragments everywhere you have to pick out (or find with your teeth). The cost difference is so small it's not worth having a second load for smaller animals. Just use A-Frames and Terminal Ascents on everything.

BP-B2

Re: Am I overthinking bullet construction? [Re: Llama_Bob] #16542385 10/19/21
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,278
beretzs Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,278
Originally Posted by Llama_Bob
The premium bullets that are good for elk etc work fine on smaller game and don't blast so many lead fragments everywhere you have to pick out (or find with your teeth). The cost difference is so small it's not worth having a second load for smaller animals. Just use A-Frames and Terminal Ascents on everything.


LB, you have a line on where the TA's are available?


Semper Fi
Re: Am I overthinking bullet construction? [Re: Oakster] #16542982 10/19/21
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 24,290
J
JGRaider Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
J
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 24,290
TRex, good luck on your hunt. You're going to love those 139's in that 6.5, guaranteed. I've shot quite a few whitetail does, a big muley buck, and loads of hogs from 50-350lbs with them and they are a killing machine.


It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
Re: Am I overthinking bullet construction? [Re: bsa1917hunter] #16543144 10/19/21
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 13,296
D
Dillonbuck Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
D
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 13,296
Not really important in this conversation, but Ballistic Tips were introduced
before the 1990's, Guessing 84-85. I started reloading in 87 and they
had been around awhile. Still working out of 100 count boxes in 165gr.
Bought all the stock a shop had in a going out of business sale around
1993.

Don't know if they are tough or not. In a 660 308 they have been
great. Reasonably meat damage, quick kills. Usually full penetration.

In a 300Win with 76g 4350 (do not replicate without caution) they were
still ok. But only killed 3 or 4 deer with it




About the load.

Young, dumb.... guy told me it was a great load if not too hot for your gun. By the 3rd round new primers fall out. Havent used the gun/load in years. I keep
thinking those rounds need to be disassembled. If shot in a tighter gun, they
could be a problem.


I'm an American, we kneel to no man.
Only to God!

The Alabama section of Pennsylvania.
Where we cling to our God and Guns.
Re: Am I overthinking bullet construction? [Re: Oakster] #16543329 10/19/21
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,609
H
hotsoup Online Content
Campfire Tracker
Online Content
Campfire Tracker
H
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,609
I use c&c for deer and hogs. Nosler partitions for elk. I like simplicity.

IC-A

Re: Am I overthinking bullet construction? [Re: Dillonbuck] #16543738 10/19/21
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 37,664
M
mathman Offline
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
M
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 37,664
At 308 speeds the 100 count boxed 165 grain bullets were fine on deer.


"In the real world, think of the 6.5 Creedmoor as the modernized/standardized/optimized version of the 6.5x55/.260." John Barsness 2019
Re: Am I overthinking bullet construction? [Re: mathman] #16543859 10/19/21
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 53,301
M
Mule Deer Offline
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 53,301
mathman,

So were the 140-grain 7mm B-Tips on deer and pronghorn, at any range out to 350 yards--as far as I ever shot anything with them. They killed quickly, but I never recovered one, even on angling shots through heavy bone..

As noted earlier, Nosler got the hardness/expansion right on some of the original Ballistic Tips, but not on others. But that's common with newly-introduced bullets. Have seen it a number of times over the decades, and among the bullets were the Barnes X and even TSX, Hornady SST, Swift Scirocco (which is why there's a Scirocco II) and some of the original Trophy Bonded Bear Claws. Hornady also improved their original Spire Points by adding the Interlock ring. And have found most companies will indeed modify the basic design depending on what game the particular caliber/weight the bullet might be used on. One of the mistakes Winchester made during the early days of the Fail Safe (which started out as the Talon) was making somewhat different versions for the .308/.30-06 and .300 magnums.

All of this is one reason I tend to be skeptical when anybody proclaims one or two bullets as absolutely perfect for all-around big game hunting.

Last edited by Mule Deer; 10/19/21.

“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Re: Am I overthinking bullet construction? [Re: JGRaider] #16543864 10/19/21
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,191
T
TRexF16 Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
T
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,191
Originally Posted by JGRaider
TRex, good luck on your hunt. You're going to love those 139's in that 6.5, guaranteed. I've shot quite a few whitetail does, a big muley buck, and loads of hogs from 50-350lbs with them and they are a killing machine.

Thanks! I'm hopeful.

Rex

Re: Am I overthinking bullet construction? [Re: beretzs] #16544546 10/19/21
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,143
L
Llama_Bob Online Content
Campfire Regular
Online Content
Campfire Regular
L
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,143
Originally Posted by beretzs
Originally Posted by Llama_Bob
The premium bullets that are good for elk etc work fine on smaller game and don't blast so many lead fragments everywhere you have to pick out (or find with your teeth). The cost difference is so small it's not worth having a second load for smaller animals. Just use A-Frames and Terminal Ascents on everything.


LB, you have a line on where the TA's are available?


Just sign up for notifications with everyone who carries them. I got plenty that way.

Re: Am I overthinking bullet construction? [Re: CRS] #16544773 10/20/21
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,143
D
dan_oz Offline
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
D
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,143
Originally Posted by CRS

I can honestly say I have never lost an animal due to bullet construction. Every issue has been attributed to less than optimum shot placement.



I'm not sure I could attest to any being lost due to bullet construction, but I have had occasions where results were less than pleasing due to bullet construction. For example, I have had bullets which were too fragile, and blew up before getting to the important bits, and others which were too tough and didn't seem to expand on the way through sufficiently to kill quickly.

Of course you might retort that this is all still placement: if you know the bullet is a bit fragile, slip it through the ribs and it will blow up inside the chest, and the tough ones would have worked fine if you'd spined or brained them, but I still think that those particular bullets were, if I'm charitable, outside their optimum performance window. Those selfsame fragile bullets were fine on smaller stuff, and the tough ones on bigger and perhaps close stuff.

All that said, I am probably a bit hidebound, as I tend to stick with stuff that works for me. I have had a really good run with various fairly plain-vanilla cup and core softpoints and hollowpoints on deer and pigs and the like, in a range of calibres. Some of these have accounted for lengthy runs of clean one-shot kills - numbers of pigs one after another in a single day often enough. For bigger stuff I like some of the tougher bullets, like Lapua Mega and Woodleigh.

I like to put the animal down right there. Among the shots I like on deer as a result is one to hit the brachial plexus, just behind the shoulderblade and immediately beneath the spine. A bit high and it is a spine shot, and there's major arteries a bit lower. I'm not entirely averse to neck shots either, if the opportunity is there. I will also look at a shot above the heart into the aorta which may also, depending on angle, see involvement of the lungs or other structures. That'll usually put them down pretty quick, where a shot through the heart would see them bolt, albeit usually for a short distance.

We don't have bag limits here, so I am not bothered about losing a bit of shoulder or neck meat if it means the animal drops on the spot. I also, for much the same reason, don't particularly care if the bullet doesn't exit, as long as it has smashed a broad path through important structures before fetching up, and ideally will do so from a wide range of angles. YMMV

IC-B

Re: Am I overthinking bullet construction? [Re: Oakster] #16545131 10/20/21
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 138
H
HCDH66 Offline
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 138
I have had good experiences with monolithic bullets, and they shoot accurately in my rifles. I currently use 139 gr. Hornady GMX in my 7mm-08 and 150 Barnes TTSX in my .30-06, both in factory ammo. I really have no reason to change. I have only recovered one of those projectiles: a 139 gr. GMX from a decent whitetail buck shot directly from the front. The bullet entered at the junction of the neck and chest, tore up lungs along the way while traveling 2/3 the length of the deer, and finally lodging in the stomach. All others I have shot with these two projectiles have been pass-throughs, mostly through bone as I prefer shoulder shots. I have never hunted elk, and hope to some day, but I would not hesitate to use either of these projectiles on elk at reasonable distances.


If ifs and buts were like candy and nuts, it would be Christmas every day.

“The .30-06 is never a mistake.” - Col. Townsend Whelan
Re: Am I overthinking bullet construction? [Re: Oakster] #16545162 10/20/21
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,892
Whelenman Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,892
I’ve been hunting Wyoming for 20 years. I’ve had good luck with my 6mm Rem with 85 grain Barnes and my Whelen with 250 grain Hornady round nosed CC. I guess the all work. As long as you do your job!


Well we're Green and we're Gold, and we play better when it's cold. All us Cheese heads have our favorite superstar. We love Brett Favre.
Re: Am I overthinking bullet construction? [Re: Oakster] #16545374 10/20/21
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 53,301
M
Mule Deer Offline
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 53,301
Have posted this before here, during such discussions. I have personally used the following bullets on big game:

Barnes—
Tipped Triple Shock (TTSX)
Triple Shock (TSX)
Long-Range X (LRX)
X-Bullet (original design)
XLC (blue-coated X-Bullet)
Banded Solids

Berger Hunting VLD

Cutting Edge Raptors

Fail Safe—
Both Winchester & Combined Technology

Federal—
Blue Box
Deep Shok
Red Box
Trophy Bonded Tip

Hornady—
ELD-X
GMX
InterBond
Spire Point, both Interlock & pre-Interlock
SST

Norma Oryx

North Fork Soft Point

Nosler—
AccuBond
AccuBond Long Range
Ballistic Tip
E-Tip
Partition (both turned and extruded)
Partition Gold (had a steel cup around rear core, like Fail Safe)
Solid Base
Solid Bullets

Remington—
Core-Lokt (original and post-1990)
Core-Lokt Ultra Bonded

Sierra—
GameKing
ProHunter

Speer—
Hot-Cor
Grand Slam (original and improved)
African Grand Slam Tungsten Core Solids

Swift—
A-Frame
Scirocco
Scirocco II

Trophy Bonded Bear Claw—both original and Federal versions
Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer Solid

Winchester—
Power Point
Silvertip
XP3
(As noted above, also original Fail Safes, including those called Talons)

Have also witnessed a number of other bullets being used by hunting partners,
ranging alphabetically from A-Squares to Woodleigh Weldcores.

All of them worked when used within their design parameters, whether velocity or size of game.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Re: Am I overthinking bullet construction? [Re: Oakster] #16545445 10/20/21
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,198
H
Huntz Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
H
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,198
I used scads of the early 30 cal 180 grain BTs in a 30/06 and also 7MM 140 grain BTs shot in a 280AI.These were from the 100 count boxes and never had any problems with either.The only mono I have shot and killed anything with was a Barnes 35 cal 180 grain X bullet.I ass shot a doe just to see what would happen and the bullet was in the skin under the front right shoulder.It had a perfect mushroom and weighed 179 grains.That was shot out of a 35 Whelen.I was impressed.


Its all right to be white!!
"Pick up a rifle and you change instantly from a Subject to a Citizen." (Col. Jeff Cooper, USMC)
Re: Am I overthinking bullet construction? [Re: Oakster] #16545566 10/20/21
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,510
JRaw Offline
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,510
40s-60s. Shoot whatever you got. Aught-Six, yo!

70s-80s. A few serious guys using Partitions. Everyone else, MAGNUM!!!! Oh, the Partition guys are MAGNUM! also.

90s-00s. Magnums! Short Magnums! Premium bullets!

10s. You don't need a magnum, just premium bullets. "Bullets matter more than headstamps."

'20s. [bleep] it, and come to think of it, bullets don't matter either. (Although maybe this is because ammo is so [bleep] expensive if you can even find it.)

Re: Am I overthinking bullet construction? [Re: Oakster] #16545576 10/20/21
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 37,323
S
Seafire Offline
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
S
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 37,323
you are overthinking it... like every one else seems to do...

these sales and marketing guys, have everyone in the palm of their hands...

I tend to use, bullets that have worked for decades...

companies counter guys like me, by discontinue making them...


"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC

“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez

Re: Am I overthinking bullet construction? [Re: JRaw] #16545654 10/20/21
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,984
F
flintlocke Offline
Campfire Guide
Offline
Campfire Guide
F
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,984
Originally Posted by JRaw
40s-60s. Shoot whatever you got. Aught-Six, yo!

70s-80s. A few serious guys using Partitions. Everyone else, MAGNUM!!!! Oh, the Partition guys are MAGNUM! also.

90s-00s. Magnums! Short Magnums! Premium bullets!

10s. You don't need a magnum, just premium bullets. "Bullets matter more than headstamps."

'20s. [bleep] it, and come to think of it, bullets don't matter either. (Although maybe this is because ammo is so [bleep] expensive if you can even find it.)

Classic, well said.


Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
Re: Am I overthinking bullet construction? [Re: flintlocke] #16545712 10/20/21
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 26,290
las Offline
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 26,290
Originally Posted by flintlocke
Originally Posted by JRaw
40s-60s. Shoot whatever you got. Aught-Six, yo!

70s-80s. A few serious guys using Partitions. Everyone else, MAGNUM!!!! Oh, the Partition guys are MAGNUM! also.

90s-00s. Magnums! Short Magnums! Premium bullets!

10s. You don't need a magnum, just premium bullets. "Bullets matter more than headstamps."

'20s. [bleep] it, and come to think of it, bullets don't matter either. (Although maybe this is because ammo is so [bleep] expensive if you can even find it.)

Classic, well said.


Yep. Full circle here. Location, location, location. I'm back to using (mostly ) C&C - and "whatever" - subject to availability, price, and accuracy..

Have yet to find in my personal experience (YMMV) the NEED for premiums. I should try those TTSX. for their purported "eat right to the hole" thing, tho. The only other reason for me to use them would be using a caliber-light for large game - say the .260 on moose. Still, it worked just find with 140 Corelokts on elk....sample of one. Come to think of it, that 100 gr Corelokt in .243 worked just fine on that 3 year old bull moose my wife shot many years ago.

Listen to JB....

Note to self- try to not shoot the next one through the brisket with 150 gr , '06 Corelokt - no need to get excessive with those 3" exit wounds...

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

.

Last edited by las; 10/20/21.

The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
"It would have been a good distance shot if they hadn't been so far away". Seth Kantner in "Shopping for Porcupine"
Re: Am I overthinking bullet construction? [Re: Oakster] #16545719 10/20/21
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,984
F
flintlocke Offline
Campfire Guide
Offline
Campfire Guide
F
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,984
Mule Deer narrowed it down for us, thanks.
Only other thing I would add, here in the far west Pacific slope where shots occasionally measure out to almost a hundred yards, I use only the sleekest high G-7 ballistic coefficient VLD projectiles. The difference from the old bullets to the super sleek can spell success or failure when you are shooting at almost a hundred yards. The drop at that range is several thousandths more with the old bullets. It's a wonder them ol' timers ever kilt a thing.


Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
Re: Am I overthinking bullet construction? [Re: Oakster] #16545731 10/20/21
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,194
R
ratsmacker Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
R
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,194
Granting that I hunt whitetails only, some of them get pretty big eating soybeans and corn (farm country deer), I'd rather lose a little meat than the whole deer. I started out using Sierra Gamekings and Hornady boattails, but I had some of them that were a bit too tender, even out of a mild-loaded .270, and they didn't give very good penetration, sometimes, it wasn't enough penetration, cratering on the hides and making a mess of things. Hornady's BTSP 140s were the absolute worst bullets I've ever used, Interlocks or not, they were awful..

I haven't had any issues whatsoever after switching to flat-based bullets, though. The few NBTs I've used have been quite good, too, but overall, with accuracy and everything else considered, I tend to favor Sierra Pro-Hunters now, in 130 gr. weight. They just work well on my fat Missouri deer.

I make zero claims as to them working well on anything heavier/bigger/tougher, but for a plain old easy-to-kill whitetail, I'm happy as heck with Sierra Pro-Hunters. BANG! flop, get the tractor.
As far as that goes, I get the same end results with factory Winchester PowerPoints out of a .30/30. I wish I had more experience with other critters, but deer is where I'm at, and for deer, even a Sierra CnC works well.


You can roll a turd in peanuts, dip it in chocolate, and it still ain't no damn Baby Ruth.
Page 4 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  RickBin, SYSOP 

RR1
Who's Online Now
713 registered members (1beaver_shooter, 1OntarioJim, 1911a1, 1Longbow, 160user, 1Akshooter, 82 invisible), 2,373 guests, and 882 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
RR2/3










Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2022 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
 
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3
(Release build 20190728)
PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.073s Queries: 15 (0.005s) Memory: 0.9052 MB (Peak: 1.0870 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2021-12-01 21:53:39 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS