|
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,632
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,632 |
And their Soros installed government. Nobody is actually being killed anyway. It's all propaganda bullshit.
I hope Putin wins. And the horse you rode in on, moron!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,525
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,525 |
It's so much easier to have this whole Ukraine thing figured out if you pretend 2014-2021 never happened.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,763
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,763 |
It's so much easier to have this whole Ukraine thing figured out if you pretend 2014-2021 never happened. Or 1991-2009?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824 |
Hey Tyler care to answer my question about Iraq? Care to stop being a condescending [bleep] that makes snarky statements that I somehow support Biden because I don't support Putin? GFY. Ooops appears I have struck a nerve..... I guess you don't care to answer? My point is a moral stance is not exclusive for the US. it appears we are often immoral in perusing our own interest . I would go so far as suggest under the leadership we currently have we are more than likely on the wrong side of history! Are we to the point you send the goon squad out to get me?
Originally Posted by Judman
PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,763
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,763 |
Hey Tyler care to answer my question about Iraq? Care to stop being a condescending [bleep] that makes snarky statements that I somehow support Biden because I don't support Putin? GFY. Ooops appears I have struck a nerve..... I guess you don't care to answer? My point is a moral stance is not exclusive for the US. it appears we are often immoral in perusing our own interest . I would go so far as suggest under the leadership we currently have we are more than likely on the wrong side of history! Are we to the point you send the goon squad out to get me? If the US acts immorally, it doesn't justify Putin doing so. You know, that whole two wrongs make a right, thing. But you are being disingenuous trying to create a "gotcha" moment. But since you're pro-Putin and anti-US I may suggest that you're an Obama fan....laughing at anybody calling Russia a geo-political threat. Man, that didn't age well for you.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,525
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,525 |
It's so much easier to have this whole Ukraine thing figured out if you pretend 2014-2021 never happened. Or 1991-2009? I find pretty much everything you've posted in this thread to be disingenuous or avoiding the actual point or both, but you earn points for consistency.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,815 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,815 Likes: 5 |
"The United States aids Ukraine and her people," Adam Schiff declared in January 2020, "so that we can fight Russia over there, and we don’t have to fight Russia here."
Schiff made this statement during the opening of Donald Trump's first impeachment trial, where the Democratic Party's bid to ensure unimpeded US weapons sales to Ukraine was presented, and widely accepted, as a valiant defense of US democracy and national security.
I wonder why Russia would consider Ukraine a threat and a puppet of the west?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,461
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,461 |
Someone might have said it was moral, it wasn't me though. TBH I'm not sure where morality comes into it.
From a Russian standpoint it was absolutely justifiable though IMO. Mostly because of an expansionist NATO being right on his doorstep is something
Putin already said wasn't going to fly.
I know the MSM is mostly propaganda and I figure the Russians are probably pretty good at themselves so right now I don't know if there is anybody worth rooting for on either side. I'm kind of "Not my circus not my monkeys." right now TBH. I do reserve the right to change my mind in the future.
If immoral, how can it be justified? It simply cannot be justified because it IS immoral. An expansionist NATO? NATO, a loose organization of allies that has voluntary membership? And? It makes Pootie angry? Who cares. They didn't do anything to Russia and they didn't threaten Russia. NATO has a right to exist. On the flip side, Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 without retaliation and has been fighting there ever since with a false insurgency. Who get's to decide what is universally moral or is immoral? I certainly don't feel qualified to make that decision.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824 |
I am no fan of Putin. To be honest I know little of him, sure I have read some propaganda etc.....
I guess I am not being clear.... so as plain as I can say it.... both sides more than likely have culpability.
Originally Posted by Judman
PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,763
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,763 |
It's so much easier to have this whole Ukraine thing figured out if you pretend 2014-2021 never happened. Or 1991-2009? I find pretty much everything you've posted in this thread to be disingenuous or avoiding the actual point or both, but you earn points for consistency. So I'm being disingenuous pointing out that the US AND RUSSIA wanted Ukraine to disarm their nuclear arsenal, which they maintained they needed to protect themselves from Russia? I'm disingenuous to point out that the US and Russia guaranteed Ukraining security for them doing so? Do you actually believe that? Do you actually believe that Russia would have invaded a nuclear Ukraine? I don't appreciate your insinuation that I'm a liar...in short, go f u c k yourself.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,763
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,763 |
Someone might have said it was moral, it wasn't me though. TBH I'm not sure where morality comes into it.
From a Russian standpoint it was absolutely justifiable though IMO. Mostly because of an expansionist NATO being right on his doorstep is something
Putin already said wasn't going to fly.
I know the MSM is mostly propaganda and I figure the Russians are probably pretty good at themselves so right now I don't know if there is anybody worth rooting for on either side. I'm kind of "Not my circus not my monkeys." right now TBH. I do reserve the right to change my mind in the future.
If immoral, how can it be justified? It simply cannot be justified because it IS immoral. An expansionist NATO? NATO, a loose organization of allies that has voluntary membership? And? It makes Pootie angry? Who cares. They didn't do anything to Russia and they didn't threaten Russia. NATO has a right to exist. On the flip side, Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 without retaliation and has been fighting there ever since with a false insurgency. Who get's to decide what is universally moral or is immoral? I certainly don't feel qualified to make that decision. I do feel confident that we can all agree it is immoral to attack a nation, killing innocent citizen without provocation.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,763
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,763 |
I am no fan of Putin. To be honest I know little of him, sure I have read some propaganda etc.....
I guess I am not being clear.... so as plain as I can say it.... both sides more than likely have culpability.
What culpability does Ukraine bear? Be specific.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824 |
I am no fan of Putin. To be honest I know little of him, sure I have read some propaganda etc.....
I guess I am not being clear.... so as plain as I can say it.... both sides more than likely have culpability.
What culpability does Ukraine bear? Be specific. JoeBob Campfire 'Bwana J Joined: Dec 2013 Posts: 11,716 "The United States aids Ukraine and her people," Adam Schiff declared in January 2020, "so that we can fight Russia over there, and we don’t have to fight Russia here." Schiff made this statement during the opening of Donald Trump's first impeachment trial, where the Democratic Party's bid to ensure unimpeded US weapons sales to Ukraine was presented, and widely accepted, as a valiant defense of US democracy and national security. I wonder why Russia would consider Ukraine a threat and a puppet of the west?
Originally Posted by Judman
PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824 |
And there is that little issue with laundering money through Hunter
Originally Posted by Judman
PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,525
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,525 |
It's so much easier to have this whole Ukraine thing figured out if you pretend 2014-2021 never happened. Or 1991-2009? I find pretty much everything you've posted in this thread to be disingenuous or avoiding the actual point or both, but you earn points for consistency. So I'm being disingenuous pointing out that the US AND RUSSIA wanted Ukraine to disarm their nuclear arsenal, which they maintained they needed to protect themselves from Russia? I'm disingenuous to point out that the US and Russia guaranteed Ukraining security for them doing so? Do you actually believe that? Do you actually believe that Russia would have invaded a nuclear Ukraine? I don't appreciate your insinuation that I'm a liar...in short, go f u c k yourself. The two examples you gave were of you avoiding the actual point, not being disingenuous. But that accusation in itself is disingenuous. See, very consistent. And putting words in my mouth is definitely being disingenuous. Keep cherry picking your talking points, and ignoring everything else. You're doing great.
Last edited by RufusG; 03/05/22.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,763
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,763 |
I am no fan of Putin. To be honest I know little of him, sure I have read some propaganda etc.....
I guess I am not being clear.... so as plain as I can say it.... both sides more than likely have culpability.
What culpability does Ukraine bear? Be specific. JoeBob Campfire 'Bwana J Joined: Dec 2013 Posts: 11,716 "The United States aids Ukraine and her people," Adam Schiff declared in January 2020, "so that we can fight Russia over there, and we don’t have to fight Russia here." Schiff made this statement during the opening of Donald Trump's first impeachment trial, where the Democratic Party's bid to ensure unimpeded US weapons sales to Ukraine was presented, and widely accepted, as a valiant defense of US democracy and national security. I wonder why Russia would consider Ukraine a threat and a puppet of the west? Having weapons to defend yourself means you deserve to be invaded? Putin has a right to tell their neighbors "no weapons"? Nope...that doesn't justify squat.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824 |
Oh and can't forget conspiring to spy on Trump and sabotage him, yep Ukraine was neck deep in that
Originally Posted by Judman
PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824 |
I am no fan of Putin. To be honest I know little of him, sure I have read some propaganda etc.....
I guess I am not being clear.... so as plain as I can say it.... both sides more than likely have culpability.
What culpability does Ukraine bear? Be specific. JoeBob Campfire 'Bwana J Joined: Dec 2013 Posts: 11,716 "The United States aids Ukraine and her people," Adam Schiff declared in January 2020, "so that we can fight Russia over there, and we don’t have to fight Russia here." Schiff made this statement during the opening of Donald Trump's first impeachment trial, where the Democratic Party's bid to ensure unimpeded US weapons sales to Ukraine was presented, and widely accepted, as a valiant defense of US democracy and national security. I wonder why Russia would consider Ukraine a threat and a puppet of the west? Having weapons to defend yourself means you deserve to be invaded? Putin has a right to tell their neighbors "no weapons"? Nope...that doesn't justify squat. Ok you have convinced me... Putin is evil, actually I already had a pretty good idea that was the case. Now to be consistent, since we invaded Iraq , are we evil?
Originally Posted by Judman
PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 24,521 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 24,521 Likes: 1 |
Hey Tyler care to answer my question about Iraq? Care to stop being a condescending [bleep] that makes snarky statements that I somehow support Biden because I don't support Putin? GFY. Looking in the mirror were you.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,763
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,763 |
And there is that little issue with laundering money through Hunter Its the Russians' job to make sure neighboring countries don't have examples of money laundering through private corporations?
|
|
|
|
|
244 members (308ld, 44mc, 3333vl, 10gaugemag, 160user, 257 roberts, 28 invisible),
1,697
guests, and
1,059
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,193,212
Posts18,503,923
Members73,994
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
