Whats you opinion?

Great source of 7-08 brass...............(grin)

I'm a .308 lover

Just dont tell Stick.

NO!

The 308W is like the little engine that could, accept it for what it is and You'll be fine.

Gunner

I like mine....with 155gr scenar's they kill stuff....not a guess.

So do a 223.............

I tried to like it, guess I just don't. No good reason either, but would like a rifle in 300 savage someday if that makes any sense. ??

Mr. Bass, You ever lay Your hands on a clean 99F and I promise Your gonna git bit, I did.

Gunner

I'm not sure which one it was but my brother had a 99 once in 300 savage. I still think he (with my expert help) got ripped at a gunshow on that one, some fella traded him a heavy barrel Ruger 25 06 quick for it. It was a takedown model with the schnabnel? forend. Did I spell that right?

I just ordered a NULA 20 in 308 Win.

Bitching or bragging?...................

Yes, You spelled it close enough to have me in tears LOL

Gunner

Point of that story is I've always wanted one like that.

Ok now I'm laughing, I figured I bombed that one.
You should hear me say it......

10-4, excellent choice

Gunner

I have a savage 10 and a savage 99 in 308 and they kick harder than my 35 whelen.
I just got my savage 99 in 300 sav back from my brother and can't wait to get the loads worked up.

One of the best, most efficient and accurate cartridges ever. Maybe even #1.

A bloke with a .308 Winchester who knows how to shoot it is well-equipped for just about anything.

I am still an old fashoined velocity nut. Don't use dotz or turrets, just want speed so no, I am not a fan. Love stuff that runs well over 3000fps and closer to 4000 is better. I know that moderate velocity stuff with an experienced operator using such tech works but I just am stuck in my ways. Gimme a 300WBY or similar.

Necking the suck outta a 308,ain't a bad way to roll............(grin)

For years I kinda disdained .308's as a .30-06 wannabe, until I acquired a couple:





Both are very accurate, and very unfussy. I also have a Chinese knockoff of the M1A that I bought cheaply years ago, which didn't do much - but I haven't shot it much or tuned it, either.

IIRC JB's comment about the .308 was that it would probably shoot well with powdered horse manure

Spent a bunch of time using the 308Win, not a hater, but not a big fan.

Not a fan of the .308, same with the 30-06. Best things about .308's have already been mentioned. Necking the suck out, I believe it is called.

R.

I have a savage 99 in 308 that my brother says kicks like a mule. My daughteer begs to differ as she loves it.

I have a custom made 308 bench rest that really shoots nice. I thought I had mastered the reloading art when my first load for development shot a .25" five shot group. The next load went into .15" and the next .10". My friend loaded it with surplus ball ammo and it shot .45". So much for the expert reloader notion.

There is nothing wrong with the 308

Randy

I prefer the 30-06 over a 308, but even so the 308 can get the job done when need be.

The 308 seems to be one of those cartridges that performs much better in the field than it's 'paper ballastics' would lead you to believe.

Even though most wouldn't consider the 308 to be the best choice for large game I've seen more than a few very large 1,200+ pound Water Buffalo dropped with a M14 firing regular FMJ ball ammo.

Most didn't require more than a couple of well placed shots, and no doubt the Partition or TSX type bullets would make the cartridge even more efficient..

Dang Tex, that reminds me of that little AR 10-T I sold in a moment of sheer stupidity.
I miss that 308.

Gunner

How could anybody not love the 308? It's the 2nd best cartridge evr made (30-06).

It's a great source for .358 brass!

I've owned a few, mostly military-pattern rifles but also one bolt... there's not much bad you can say about .308.

That said it bores me to death <g>. I'm more interested in about every other cartridge off that parent case, than in the .308 itself.

After using the 30-06 for so long, it is hard to warm up to the 308 . That's not saying I'm not trying!!!! I've got 2 great rifles in 308, but they just don't do it for me . No that doesn't mean they're for sale either

Stating a fact.

It works but would not be my choice for big game hunting

Easiest cartridge to get to shoot well I have ever dealt with.

John

I like my PTR-91 in .308, but don't have any desire to own one in any other form than in a semi auto. Not that it isn't a capable cartridge, I'd just rather have other stuff.

I hate one thing about the 308, takes too long to wear the barrels out.

I know it works but have no love for it....I can dig it if you must have a short action;tactical rifle;or want the tiniest groups from a target rifle.

But none of the above applies to me,so I never saw the need when there was a perfectly good 30/06 to be had....

308 does 90+% of an 06 with half the recoil whats not too like ?

I like the 308. Of course 7mm bullets are hard to beat, as well as a lot of others.

I drank the koolaid. Barnes 130 grain TTSX, case full of 4895, and CCI bench rest primers. Hard to beat for accuracy and performance.

Yes! I just have the 308 I bought in 68, barreled to a 7-08, thanks to Dober. I just never caught on to the 308 craze!

I greatly prefer the .30-06.

7-08 MO BETTER choice.120gr TSX'S BAD MOJO.

I have long been a .308 hater. In a really light rifle where the .308 should be most at home the little SOB kicks too hard to enjoy extended shooting sessions. In heavier rifles the ballistic performance falls too short for my taste.


The 7/08 and.243 are much more civilized and likable for my uses.

Don't own one never did but Hondo is right on the money with my experiences.Have been loadin it for several of my huntin pards for years and never have seen any cartridge digest whatever you feed it consistently without being finicky.I've never been much for 30 cal in anything and indeed the 7/08 is a great choice but if I was going to build a lighter 30 it would be the 308...Thinking it should be way more popular especially with the new boolits available!!

Yup, so did I!

I like lots of rounds but the lil 308 is just good at what it does and does it well its the tuff to beat lil rifle cartridge..

Ditto on rifles. I am not a fan of any of the .30's or 7mm's. They get the job done nicely but they are not for me.

In handguns it is a different story. I have a .30-06 Encore that I am pretty excited about.

'

That 100% of '06 "performance" is easy to pass on..............(grin)

In fairness,I shoot a few chamberings and I couldn't cite a single one that was "finicky".

Nothing redeeming in the 308 there,nor in the Deuce...as is often regurgitated.....................

Fixed that....

Thanks for the posts.Lot more that dislike than I'd thought.

For me,the 308's greatest strength is in a Krunchenticker being fed some MilSurp Ball,for giggles. But that is wearing thin too,given the cost/availability of same.

If I'm going to reload something good,it's tough to get giddy about the 308...because it's so easily trumped...................

It's the one round I've no clue about.Owned a semi auto Remmy for about 5 minutes.Thats it..But do love her offspring.Except the 338 Fed.

As much as I like the .308 I like the .260 better.

Specially if its AI"d

Here is some information dealing with the .308 that I had 'saved' from somewhere.

I assume the information is correct, and it shows that the .308 can hang in there with both the .270 and .30-06;


"The .308 Winchester packs a lot of punch into that short action cartridge. Compared side by side with either the 30-06 or the .270 Winchester, the .308 holds its own.

Using ballistics charts from Remington.com with their fine Core-Lokt bullet in 150 grain in the .308 and 30-06 and 130 grain in the .270, here are some numbers.

Each of the three carries 1000 foot pounds of energy past 400 yards. At the same 400 yards, with a 200 yard zero, the .270 Winchester shows bullet drop of 20.9 inches, the 30-06 shows a bullet drop of 24.4 inches, and the .308 Winchester shows a bullet drop of 26.2 inches.

With just over 5 inches of difference at a range that most deer hunters will never shoot (and probably shouldn't) the .308 shows that it can hang with the big two at long range."

I'd erase that file and delete that Post both,if only in the interest of selfrespect...................(grin)

Oldfenderguy, something I've thought about alot is my nosler manual lists the 308 win with a 165 and RL-15 at a max loading and velocity of 2820 fps. My cherished 30-06's and their pet load of 57 gr. IMR 4350 has a MV of 2832 which is only 12 fps faster. Something else for those of you to think about too . I know it drives me crazy to think that it is that much on the heels of the 06!!!!

I just checked my "Nosler #1 Reloading Manual" from 1976 and even it shows only a 42 FPS difference in maximum loads between the 165 GR 308 and 165 GR 30-06..

It's only when you get into the heavier bullets (180+ GR) that the old 30-06 starts to 'pull ahead'...

The stubby little 308 cartridge just shouldn't perform that well.

I'm still using the #4. Maybe we should both think about getting the newer version

Not a hater, just never had any interest in it.

some people have a hard time seeing the light......pretty dark in alaska and the swap i guess

I've not yet seen a 308 that gives Nosler's reported velocities when fired across one of my Oehlers.

The boys are making great headway upon the merits of scratching the 308 and '06 both,from a list of anything bordering upon serious consideration.

Though I reckon it ain't on purpose.....................(grin)

Yeah, over the years I've thought about purchasing a newer version, but there isn't any point into rushing into something....

Your right bigstick, the 06 is the most boring cartridge on the planet. It still has a place in the hearts of many though

I LOVE The '06,but all of mine are stamped "7-08"......................(grin)

TFF...

Fact...............

Pass the 7-08 and hold the fluff.......

As I hear it commonly stated..

I don't dislike the 308 and have owned several. But, I've realized that the best thing about the .308 is the donor opportunities.

False shoulders is nice,on a virgin poke................

I like the .308 Winchester well enough, just not quite enough to get excited over it.

It's offspring, however, are a different story! Love the .243, .260, 7mm-08 and .338 Federal!

7-08 AI?

It shoots well, plenty of ammo available, generally isn't picky about what you feed it, super easy to reload for, easy on brass, great components, rifles available from fat to skinny...and most importantly it kills well. I like it.

SAAMI and/or AI...............

Im not a fan of any rifle that doesnt kick so hard I wish I hadnt shot it, or sub MOA groups, the ease of reloading, the million rounds I can shoot before I wear out the barrel, the ability to cleanly kill anything out to 800+ yards.
Yea the 308 really sucks!

They call that a 223 Toots...................(grin)

If you could own only one rifle it would be hard to the 308 Win . I have four rifles chambered in 308 and just purchased a new 308 Reamer to build myself another. I guess you could say i hate the 308

I concur,it'd be hard to suffer a 308.

7-08?...now you're makin' headway and at Warp Speed!..................

I don't hate the .308, it's excellent in the M-60 and M-14 that it was designed for.

It'd be remiss to not say that them wares wouldn't shine brighter in 7-08.......................

I love the .308. My only problem with the .30-06 is that they didn't make the Sav 99 in long actions. I have most all the calibers mentioned, except the .260. The .308 seems to always get my nod for deer.

In a short action I'd rather have a 7/08.

As to having 90% of a 30/06 why bother when I can have 100%? And mostly these comparisons don't work out when they run up against the cold, hard chronographs....

I've learned over the years not to push little cartridges to do the work of bigger cartridges...generally it leads to waives of dissapointment....if I want a certain velocity level, I get a case that does it easily.

The 7-08 is 110%...................

Got that one backwards, as par for the course you play on.

Never could understand why Nato settled on the 7.62 unless R+D DOD felt they had to counter all the AK-47's out there with 30 cal.The knowledge of the 7mm bore on that case was known many moons before the 7.62 was adopted..just think it woulda been a better choice overall..I can't say too much evil against it as I'd wager I've shot waaay more 7.62 than most folks specially out of a mini gun with devastating results but still a 7mm on a M60 or M14 woulda been sweet

Bean Counters ain't a very good barometer of evaluation..................(grin)

Ah come on FlyboyFlem--- Fill me in on what a 7 mm would do in an M-60 that the good old 7.62 wouldn't do? YA lost me on that one. --- I often heard that they made a stronger linkage for the Mini than the regular M-60 linkage in Vietnam. Ever here of that?? Web

I think the Brits wanted to sized the nato round down to 7mm thus creating the 7mm-08 back then, but us americans are a 30-caliber nation thus made the push to keep it a 30-caliber round thus the 308win/nato.

Sounds like the 300 win mag and 308 Norma scenerio. Wish winchester would of just necked down the 338 and called it good. The Brits wern't dummies.

now i do like a 7-08 very well to got 2 of them and shot a lot of deer with them. Now as for picking one to take hunting on a given day if 308. 7-08 and even an 06 were setting there ready to go i would take which ever gun i liked best and worry little about which if the 3 it were shooting .
i do have 308 right now that i love to carry and shoot it does shoot 165 NBT and 168 barnes ttsx at 2740 which means an 06 would have to shoot a lttle over 3000 to gain that 10% but in the field dought any critter would notice

The 7mm-08 is as good as the .243 but with more recoil.

Everyone who shoots as "much" as you,would concur.

Laffin'!..................

I damn sure not knockin it as I'm sure you shot your fair share but always felt a 7 would have provided somewhat less wind drift and flatter trajectory.Course when you got boolits yellin get out the way when there coming several inches apart it don't make much diff !!!

My whole experience was shooting the 7.62 from the the air..I know how much target deflection was dialed in and I know it would have been considerably less with the 7mm round.Watchin a solid stream of boolits bend in a precarious arc towards the bad guys with the good guys close by is a very nerve racking endeavor!!

I have a feeling the .308win will be around killing stuff and hitting targets at various ranges for a long while to come..

Personally, I'm fond of the .308win, if only for nostalgic reasons. In its military guise, the young fella in the avatar on the left carried one on and off for many years, and it never let him down..

So while I am quite open minded about trying other rounds, the .308win "veteran" status earns it a place in my safe and I don't see it changing any time soon..

Regards,

Peter

I used to hate 308 thinking it shoudl be limited to automatic military guns or something. then through a trade where someone who had killed everything with his rem 700 in 308, wanted a bango magnum I had. I figured it would make future trading stock, but I went out to shoot the thing and very tiny, tiny groups totally changed my mind on the round, its usefulness and the fun I have had shooting it.

What other chamberings don't do that?.....................(grin)

All this talk about the 308 reminds me of my last outing with my 308's and developing loads for my 2 new rifles. Here's a picture of the aggregate of around 60 shots fired at a target with my win model 70 FWT. The loads consisted of RE-15 and Varget charged casings. It's interesting to make note of the aggregate too. The group seems big at around 3 inches, but it is about 5 different loadings with the 2 different powders. Sometimes the target backboard will tell you more about consistency than the target will :



Now that I have a good load developed, the aggregate should be much smaller than this one .

.308 is a good round, especially for the handloader. I have one that shoots 150 gr. Ballistic Tips into a 3/8" clover leaf group, 165 gr. BT's about as good. I just loaded some 130 gr. TTSX's at 3,150 fps (52 gr. Varget). That load shoots 5/8" groups and should be a great whitetail load. The BT's can be a bit friable on some targets, so I'm trying the TTSX's for tougher targets, like mud crusted boar hogs. That bullet at that speed should put their lights out, pronto. We'll see pretty soon.

Easy to load, good brass available, accurate, versatile, available in a good offering of rifles. Where's the down side?

DF

I bet!!

In general the .308 can hang right with the 7-08 in terms of wind drift, just at a cost of a bit more recoil.

I was thinking some more last night about why the .308 never has moved me. I think partly it hinges on it being a 30-06 wannabe... you know how .308 shoooters always have that chip on their shoulders... grin... things like 7-08 are not wannabes, they are their own deal.

Mostly I like the .308 because it's the engine that drives my .358, and the .358 is simply the BEST use of the .308 parent case at the ranges that the vast majority of game is killed.

Now where did I put that Nomex suit....

Well I still think that way about the .308-Winchester! I hunted with it's bigger brother for over 20 years or more and it did a great job, especially when I used those 200 grain Nosler bullets back then.

I picked up my first .300 Win mag after my time working for Uncle Sam. Now that Belgium Browning Safari rifle served me well, no problem breakin the shoulders of a bull elk at 300 yards.

The only .308 I own today is in a FAL SA 58 miliary rifle and it is very accurate, to the tune of 3/4 inch groups from the bench at 100 yards.

I've a Top Flight 308 and a Top Flight 7-08.

The 308 cain't hang.................

BSA,

I had a DPMS LR308 for a while, the 26" version that weighs like 12 pounds.

I didn't shoot it much at 100 yards once I got my load worked up for it. But hot DAMN that thing was eager to please! It twice put TEN Noz 155-gn match bullets under .8" at 100 yards... ten of 'em, not 3, not 5. This from a big, ugly sumbitch of a gun shooting over the hood of my truck!

I still have one of those targets. Ten shots into .8" makes a nice, big single hole.

Sold that one when everyone was going batsh!t over Obama getting elected and AR-style rifles were selling for over list price. Bought my Sendero. Selling a rifle that accurate, is kind of wierd... But it was a beast. Not really useful for much other than "installation" shooting and I'm much more into practical riflery these days. Take a rifle for a walk, lay down, shoot stuff...

With you shooting it.

162gr AMAX?

I had a Tikka in 7mm-08 and gave it to my hunting buddy and built myself the 7x57 which i prefer over the 7mm-08

Unless there's a 162 Scenar I don't know about..................(grin)

Scenar, which do you prefer the 155 scenars or the 162 A-MAX?

Lapua doesn't make a 7mm Scenar...though one in 155 would assuredly smoke it's 30cal cousin.......................

Taking about scenars always does make the 7mm lovers cranky!

I shoot the 155's in my .308's and the 162's in my .280AI. They both kill stuff.....dead.

Joking aside, I have to wonder why Lapua don't do a 7mm Scenar?

I'd like to try some 155 scenars in my FWT 308 one of these days.

Someday I hope..wouldnt mind seeing some .25 cal scenars either...

Same reason they don't 25's.

Bean Counters................(grin)

I'd like a 7mm very much.

Stick,

You must think something of the .308 or you would have traded it off. What you keeping it around for? Or another way of putting it, what do you use it for?

DF

I've more than a few rifles and not all things is equal..................(grin)

Guess I was fishing for you to throw a cookie, or at least some crumbs to the .308...

DF

Great 7-08 donor brass,especially in Lapua.................(grin)

Jeff don't figure how the 308 hangs with the 7/08 on wind drift or trajectory down range and anyway I'm strictly talking about a hypothetical if it were used in my instance.You can't tell me our targeting deflection on the the mini guns would have been the same..just ain't buyin it!!.Velocity and BC would be much higher and that just doesn't equate to the same deflection..I DO know a little about the the 7.62 !!

A BC increase,in conjunction with a speed increase,has been knowed to do nice things downrange...in direct extrapolation....................

That Sir is an under statement!!!

So the rumor goes...................(grin)

You know better than most it ain't no rumor..it's gospel..to bad more don't get the religion !!

Am diggin' the view,from the pew...............

Church will be in session,here in the backyard...directly................

You lucky bastid. Wish I could attend

It'd hurt your feelers,all over again..................(grin)

Nah.....

Trick shooter..Everyone knows scenars dont expand.

Uh huh. Had two or three and it didn't catch my fancy. And I guarantee there's more than 40fps difference between the 308 and '06 shooting 165s.

Yeah I hate em. On my 6th
308Win Sako L579
308Win Kimber Montana
308Win A-bolt Stainless Stalker
308Win Model 70 Compact
308Win Model 70(Pre-64)
308Win Blaser R8 Professional

A true all round workhorse!

I think the '06 walks away from the .308 as one gets into the heavier stuff. Over 180 grs. the difference starts magnifying.

DF

The .30-06 is way better with all weight bullets.

You boys are gonna talk me into a 308 yet.....................(grin)

Fair tools,for fair assessment.................

ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Love the desert flame rig!

Now, Swamp, with lighter bullets, like 130's, even up to 150's, they are tit for tat. And, the average .308 may just shoot a slightly tighter group than the average 30-06.

DF

With this [bleep] harsh screaming sunlight,it's tough to make her colors pop...but I think I done it.

Though the rusted S/S shows too.................(grin)

Yeah that's nice. Understated. It's hot, without even trying.....grin

Like Desert,it'd prolly be better in black....................

Check your PM's please..

Tanks

Replied.

I wanna see some of the work..............

I have no use for those light bullets.

Birth control rifles....

Undoubtedly.

That Old Glory Model alone,has killed more schit than everything in your Imagination combined..................

Wrong again. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln


You could easily see the difference by either firing both in similar rifles, or by calculating recoil with the usual formula - we'll let you use a calculator, too.

The only thing in a 308 that is worth having is belt fed Russ

Then be quite.

Swampman, there's uses for heavy bullets, there's uses for lighter bullets. Now, what about that proposition I mentioned earlier, using TTSX 130's at 3,150 fps out of my .308, a proven load that shoots 5/8" at a hundred. Now, don't you think that hot little bullet cruising along at over 3,000 fps is going to mess up a big hog's day? It's going to open up, and blast daylight all the way thru that nasty animal. How can you not like something so effective and so efficient as that?

DF

For me the light bullet is the 165. I'll doubt never use a TTSX.

Try it, you may even like it. Being non lead, they're longer per weight. That 130 TTSX is probably about the same length as your cup and core 150's, probably not far behind your 165's. They fly fast and punch deep. Depends on what 165 you're using, that TTSX 130 will probably penetrate as well if not better. And 3,100 fps is more destructive than 2,700 fps, not to mention flatter shooting. Puts a new profile on the "lowly" .308.

DF

No HK91?


Tough crowd..................(grin)

to damn heavy for the number of rounds on board, but if caught in a city like Hue wouldn't mind having one ( grin) Russ

swampy i seen you butcher things but change in facts in post to suit your needs come on ! i do hope you have small feet............. so at least your IQ will be a bigger # than your shoe size

Liked one on my back,while feeshing many locales,just HOPIN' something would try and eat me.

Same goes the M1A................

Dillon Aero is an interesting application of the .308.

Bet that sucker would kill some hogs...

DF

Where's the sling studs?.................(grin)

Why would anyone hate a cartridge?

on the top, carrying the battery is a bitch though Russ

Mere details. I'm sure Mike Dillon has an answer for that...

He makes these armored Surburbans, I guess for third world types, that have these guns mounted so they emerge thru the roof of the vehicle and blast the ___ out of what ever, controlled from in side by a computer. Probably some danger from flying brass...

DF

Not if I can get it on my back...............(grin)

Awesome!

Where do I get one?

Or two......

And can I get one in .260? AI'd of course.

Even Swampy should like this one...

DF

He wouldn't: It doesn't have remington on it.

Just rent an AC47D "Spooky" and fly around until you find a large group of nasty hogs.

Ole 'Puff' will do will a job on them with each of it's three mini-guns spitting out 6,000 7.62 rounds a minute.

because they suck!

Mike likes blue, but for the right price, I'm sure he's paint it green...

DF

Sucks, you're right. This M-134 Gatling sucks the wind right out of whatever, and does it in a hurry...

DF

the original "lead rope" Russ

fendergyy,

That would be a hog hunt to sell tickets to...

DF

Spent some time around the AC-47 and a lot of time around Gatling guns. In 7.62X51 they aren't that great. You have to get too close to the ground, that's why the USAF abandoned them in favor of the 20mm.

See there, the USAF hates the .308 as well...

Oh well, what can I say. Maybe if they had just tried those lighter bullets...

DF

yea for firing at hard targets but I stll would not want to be on the ground if a zoomie was shooting at me with one Russ

Dillon doesn't seem to have a problem selling them.

He, reportedly, is doing quite well.

DF

Zoomies are gay. Real men launch 16" projectiles.

Actually it's 3.5 inch 88mm

But they get hot grub and clean cots at night, hey but wait, so do the Navy guys Russ

Swampman --you are right about the Mini 7.62 Vs the 20mm Vulcan , but if you were on the ground and got up close and personal with Charlie , I sure you would not say that they were not that good if Mr Cobra showed up in time of need. Web

At least we are up there saving your sorry asses time after time.

You may not like the .308 Win, but it is way more than needed for many applications hard to beat for many more.

Yous is a personal preference not a statement of fact. Nothing new there.

Hey, Swamp. It just hit me. You don't like the .308 because it's not on Jack O'Connor list of favorite ctgs. Jack formed a lot of his opinions before the .308 was born in 1951. And, eveidently, like a lot of others, that was his story and he was sticking to it...

But, Ole Jack got paid pretty well to be opinionated and man, did he ever sell his story...

DF

Its the only cartridge I own 2 rifles in, so I guess I like it.

I guess I'm a Fan. Of the 21 rifles I own, 4 of them are .308s

1) Browning BLR 81
2) Rem 788 Rifle
3) Rem 788 Carbine
4) Springfield Armory Tanker Garand

Sounds like an "outing" with you guys "coming out of the closet".

It ain't a bad round... I've got a bunch of rifles, but still enjoy a light, very accurate .308. It has its place.

DF

Wow I am impressed, you have 2 rifles in the most powerfull round they were offered in (788) and a cut down Garand that was a 30-06 8 round design to start with, and a Browning Russ

disliking the 308 because its too small (ie. if you're a big bore fan) makes sense
disliking the 308 because its too big (ie. if you're a small bore/high velocity fan) makes sense too.
But disliking the 308 because you think the world revolves around the 30-06 is just plain ignorant.

Name one advantage a 308 has other than loaded cartridge weight over any mid range 30 cal and don't give bullshit figures based on it's efficiency from modern powders which will hold thru with all Russ

I don't care what swamp says. Count me as a .308 Win lover. I also love the 30-06 and have both.

didn't say 308 was any better than other mid range 30s. Just commenting on how some say 308 sucks and in same breath will hail the 30-06 as the best the world has ever seen. If something can't be killed with a 308 the 06 won't do it either.

And if you really want to start a pissing match lets say 06 versus 270 versus 7mag versus 280 versus ect Russ

who's starting a pissing match ?
was never my intention

Gotta be careful who you call out for a pizzing match. My ole Pappy warned me about getting into a pizzing match with a skunk. Even if you won, you really lost. And the more you trade pizzing licks with such a varmint, the more you smell like him...

Just a thought, IMHO.

DF

I'll shut up when you learn to spell...



... and calculate recoil.

Is it time to start putting up pics of dead stuff?.....Big dead stuff?

Swampy, bring your 06's up here this April and I'll show you what a good driver can do behind a good .308....dare ya.

Chambered in ARs

US military round.

THE target round (lots of 6mm this and 6.5 that) but it is the core long range shooting round.

Works extremely well farther than most folks can shoot at game.

Universally available.

Self Defense Ammo (HOrnady TAP) available.

Yeah, its a mild hunting cartridge--so is the 7x57. What's your point?

When I move up in power, I go to the 375.

When I move down, I go to the 223.

BMT

We've all seen your big dead stuff scenar. That's why I want to try the 155's

You havent seen all of it.....grin!

As someone else noted - 308 is the only caliber I have multiple rifles in. For an all-around 48-contiguous states choice it's an easy choice. I do have a .30 magnum; I'll never own a 30'06 because the 308 does everything the 30'06 can do in a more efficient package.

I like each of the .308 rifles I have. Have not owned one that did not shoot well.

I think you missed the point. Name one significant disadvantage the .308 Win has over the .30-06 or any �mid range 30 cal�. It may not be better than the .30-06 but it certainly doesn�t suffer much in comparison. If I can�t do it with my .308 Win there are very few circumstances where I would find one of my three .30-06�s adequate.

The 30-06 does have an advantage with the heavier bullets like the 220's:

From Nosler #4:

30-06 W/220 gr. partition max velocity 2602 fps.

Since the 308 doesn't list the 220 I guess that is a good indicator that the bullet doesn't work well in that case. It does however list the 200 gr. partition at a max velocity of 2413 fps. with a 24 inch barrel which is not common with most hunting rifles we use. I've got both 308 and 30-06 and I'd feel a little better if given the choice to carry a 30-06 with 220's in a place like Alaska where the threat of big bears is imminent. Now where is my nomex suit????????

Still have a couple 06's and though I don't shoot them much any more, don't remember ever shooting a 220...

I do like 150, 165 and 180's. Not a lot of difference in those weights.

When I was flying Cobras, we had at least one that had twin minis in the nose turret. 8000 rounds a minute (4000 per gun) will defoliate stuff in a HURRY.

John

Granted. Since I've never shot heavier than 180g out of my .30-06s, I don't see any "significant" disadvantage with the .308 win. Also granted, the most dangerous thing where I hunt is other hunters, bad drivers and miscellaneous two-legged varmints, none of which have ever caused me any trouble.

While the .30-06 does have a small advantage over the .308, particularly in bullet weighs of 180 grains or more.....not enough to worry about. The kinds of animals tha require the use of a 200 grain bullet from a .30-06.....are probably better handled by a bigger gun anyway, so the "advantage" over the .308 is meaningless on most game.

There are also a few rounds that have a trajectory advantage over the .308 (some of which are "almost" significant), but this advantage only comes into play at ranges longer than 400 yards. The vast majority of shooters will never fire a shot at more than 300 yards (and probably shouldn't), so this "advantage" is also meaningless.

There are some rounds that recoil less than the .308. However, to gain this advantage they must give up bullet weight, bore size and/or velosity. This will mean less penetration and/or power. These rounds are , at best, equal to the .308 due to this tradeoff. To be honest, any shooter that can not handle the recoil of a .308 certainly can't handle the recoil of any round that DOES have an advantage over the .308.

"Most" shooters in this country are basically "deer" hunters with an occational trip for pronghorn or elk size game. Deer are hunted in so many different ways and different terrain that the same gun may (or may not) be totally suitable. It is HERE that the .308 shines.

Because of it's shorter length (compared to a .30-06 class round) the .308 can be chambered in many, many more action types than it's longer rivals. The .308 has been chambered in every type rifle ever produced (single shot, bolt, lever, pump and semi-auto).

In a single shot or bolt action, the .308 can be had in a shorter, lighter rifle without giving up barrel length and when barrel length IS shorter (which is desirable at times) the .308 is more "forgiving" about velosity loss than higher-intesity rounds.

The few lever actions that can handle a .30-06 lenth round are nessisarily heavy and, in my opinion, less well balanced that a similar rifle chambered for the .308. Some of the "best" such as the Savage 99 and Winchester 88 are ONLY available in .308 length.

Only a handful of semi-auto rifles (excluding the various "military" rifles) have been chambered in .30-06 length.....and they all (with the posiible exception of the Browning BAR) are , in my experience, less reliable than a .308 length action. Even if they do perform reliably....you , once again, carry extra weight and length.

Because of it's terminal performance, good trajectory, acceptable recoil, outstanding accuracy and....most important....availability in a wide range of rifles and action types.......the .308 just may be the "best" deer cartridge ever used. It's not flashy and as some have said a little "boring", but it does the job as well or better in more different ways than any other round out there.

Velocity....and quite a bit of it.

This lie has been repeated so often some people believe it.

I've used both rounds quite a bit on a variety of game here in Montana including antelope, black bear, whitetail, mule deer, and elk... try as I might, I've never seen any actual difference between them in the field.

The 308 launches a 165/168 at the same speed a 30-06 pushes a 180. Anyone that thinks there's any real killing difference between the two because of 15/13 grains bullet weight... well, there's a particular bridge over the East River that needs your financial investment.

I've also found the 308 is more eager to please at the loading bench than the 30-06, and it also recoils noticeably less which makes it well-suited to light rifles.

I certainly would never choose a 30-06 as a dedicated whitetail rifle in Eastern woods, to me it's power is more appropriate on an elk mountain... but dead is, of course, dead.

I say use what you want, just don't expect those of us that have used both to good effect that the 30-06 is somehow vastly superior... it ain't so.

Just trying to keep it real...

Well the .264 WM has em both beat so there..........

Swampy, I bet your Green Box 30-06 vs properly handloaded .308 across a chronograph would be an eye opener for you, if you only had the capacity to learn.

Go back to Graybeards with your weak piss....

Why didn't I think of that...

Spot-on... factory 30-06 stuff is what 308 handloads are velocity-wise, but without the 308's generally better accuracy.

I've never owned a 30-06. My .308 Remington 788 shoots my varmint loads and my deer handloads into MOA holes @ 100 yards all day long.

If you shoot well with the '06, good for you. I shoot well with the 308. This debate is like the 30-30 vs the 32 Win special. Well, maybe more like Ford vs Chevy. It's the person pulling the trigger that matters.

My post wasnt directed at you, I'm sure you knew that.

Its at all the bickering about 2 cartridges that are so close that its funny seeing people fight over it.

Of course Tom, all in good fun my friend...

But the .264 does suck....

K

Oh your sooo dead, talk about "my" favorite cartridge like that.



Here I had high hopes for you.

Sucks the life right out of critters it passes through.

I'm sorry...I truly am.........

I thought they suck the life right out of the barrel . A few shots and you need to replace

I thought the 243win and 220swift suck the life right out of the barrel too

Depends on how you treat em.....

You're an idiot. you're gonna squabble over 150 FPS but yet in other posts you'll swear the 30-06 can do anything the 300 mag will do. I'll admit I'm not a magnum fan and I've used a 30-06 and I like it, but the 308 and 30-06 are closer in performance than are the
30-06 vs. 300 mag. And by the way, both are probably way overkill anyway on any deer inside of 300 yards. Can't imagine a 200 yard deer would notice a difference (nor would the shooter)between a 2820 fps 308 vs 2910 fps 30-06.
...................................MV .. 200 .. ME .. 200
.308 Win. (150 Sp) ....... 2820 2288 2648 1744
.308 Win. (165 PSP) ......2685 2264 2641 1878
.308 Win. (165 BTSP) .....2870 2456 3019 2211
.308 Win. (180 Sp) ........2620 2198 2743 1930
.30-06 Spfd. (150 Sp) .....2910 2342 2820 1827
.30-06 Spfd. (165 PSP) ...2800 2283 2872 1909
.30-06 Spfd. (165 BTSP) .3015 2575 3330 2428
.30-06 Spfd. (180 Sp) .....2700 2023 2913 1635
.300 Win. Mag. (150 Sp) .3290 2636 3605 2314
.300 Win. Mag. (180 Sp) .2960 2540 3501 2578

Not to be contentious, but you coulda stopped there...you nailed it...

Your wrong, what else is new?

The .300WM and the .30-06 are not even close. They can do the same work but they aren't even close.

The .308 and 30-06 are closer than the .300 WinMag and .30-06, it not really even a valid comparison.

I've owned all three for numerous years, and have actually shot numerous deer with all three, and can't tell the difference in terminal performance in the field, especially between the '06 and the .308.

One poster mentioned heavier bullets. That is where the '06 begins to show it's advantage, at 180 grains and heavier.

The biggest difference is in the rifles themselves, and how they handle.

Two deer I have shot come to mind that were really quick to go down, both at close range (50 yards or so). One was with a .300 WinMag.

The other, a .30-30. Go figure.

From three different .308's.....Just cant bring myself to hate that....grin! The last group was shot through a Krieger barrel with 4000+ rounds through it...(5 shots)

Sandbagger!!

The suspense is killing me. Quit holding back and bring it.

Everybody knows you can't kill anything with a .308 (and blue scares critters).

Ever build a light 7mm?................

My Remington factory .30-06 with Remington Core-Lokt 180 grain ammo will shoot as good as or better than that.

Nothing wrong with the .308 accuracy wise, it's just second rate compared to cartridges like the .270 & .30-06.

Absolute and utter bullsh!t. I'd bet my truck you haven't ever shot groups like Scenarshooter posted in your life and that you couldn't duplicate them at 50 yards right now. Let's see some pictures to prove it.

I've got one in the oven right now.....I'll be necking down Lapua brass.....grin!

Barrel length? Twist? Contour? Stock?

A 22" 10" will spin 162's,but 9" is where it's at...............

Don't take her Imagination away from her,it's ALL she's got...............

#3 Rock @ 22" 1-9"
Mcmillan Hunter's Edge
Defiance action
Badger M5 bottom(AI mags)

Main boolit of interest?..............

Sounds like a George build too?................

162 AMAX.... Yep,GA Precision.

Be curious to hear where it takes you,as compared to a 308.................

in 1977 I had an M-77 .30-06 that I tweaked the bedding on and shot plenty of groups as good as that top one. I've shot groups as good as those with Contenders and XP-100s. Nothing to it. I've even owned a few lever action Marlins that would shoot nearly that good. I've never had a problem shooting tiny groups, that's whay I can't understand when others can't.

In the shooter I guess.

Your Imagination is rather something to behold.......................

Your stupidity is something to behold.

Feel free to recite whatever your Imagination tells you,as it's entertainin' and then some.......................

Prove it. Show us some targets with those kind of groups (without powder burns on them).

155gr scenars from a .308 @ 1000 meters(1093 yards)Laying in the dirt off a bipod....course I'm sure those factory '06 180 grainers would all be in the 10 ring...laffin!

I'm guessing that's pretty close to what Ole Swampy's 100 yard targets look like.

1st step in a Swampy accuracy job:

I'll remember that if I ever actually want to mess with brownies or engine blocks.

They'd have a better chance of grouping because they wouldn't be as likely to be sub-sonic.

There seems to be a bit of vertical stringing there Scenarshooter.

I am impressed with all your targets but this one causes a big smile. I have only ever shot three .1" 100 m targets and my best ever at 1000 m was 12". Anyone calling BS on you never shot at 1000. My best have all been 308 168 Sierra match kings.

Good shooting

Randy

i'm saving this....

holly crap your an idiot!

That's a real gem.

Swampy,

What's the MV and BC of your 180CL?

How do the 1K ballistics compare to a 155 Scenar at MV 2925 fps?

he just holds 6" high and hits dead on!


i kill me...

For Swampy it's AV.

Lapua publishes a .508 G7 BC for the 155 scenar. My testing puts it closer to .490. My bet is(without looking at JBM) is the 155 out of a .308 will be supersonic farther than a 180CL easily in a 30/06 and probably a .300WM..

She thinks BC means: Baked Chicken...............

scenarshooter,

Have you had any sucess with the 155 at 300WM velocities?

In the 3200+ neighborhood.

I've just started with them in my 300WM but haven't found decent accuracy yet at that speed.

hangunnr

The 180CL has a BC of .383, per Quicktarget.

Surprised the 1K BR crowd hasn't discovered it yet......grin

Not to interrupt the debate, but...dang. .383 for a 180gr .30 cal? That's getting down close to the BC on my daughter's Rubik's Cube.

Have to say Wade TFF

TFF...just about lost it on this one...that's worth saving for sure.

BC only amounts to something on glossy pages. In real life it means almost nothing.

You guys are so naive, I feel sad for you. Being wet behind the ears has gotta suck. Maybe dad needs to take you to the range and let you shoot the .22 more.

that there is another gem!

It's a shame you are deluded by watching too much of the Outdoor Channel. Common sense is a stranger to most here.

DUMBPHUCKTITUDE thy name is Swampman

yeah, i'm all show and no go.... or could be BT/DT...?

By your own words.....

yup.... believe what you want.... but please don't stop posting... you're too [bleep] incompitent not to get a laugh off of...

thanks!

let's see if i can find something i shot in the azz....

Are you gonna cry?

nope... some chit shot in the face but none in the azz... guess you'll always have me on that...

don't go and flatter yourself.... this is the internet and you're an azzclown...

What I thought....wipe that tear...

Aren't you supposed to be inspiring us with pictures of your tiny groups, long range targets, and impressive big game kills???

don't be trying to take him off track.... this should get good!

Well Paul, look at the bright side, at least she don't have a bullistics program....

not yet but i think JO is sending her one in a pm... grins

No....internet pictures don't mean a thing.

Especially your's.

Laffin'!.................

Come on Swampy.....hang a pic.

The rest of us do.

This one is worth a thousand words:

Hard to hang pics of what you ain't done.

Very true..

He knows that.

You'll see dozens of pics here of what people ain't done. It's easy...

You calling into question the pics of the groups Scenarshooter posted?

I reckon the guys at Berger Bullets would disagree....even in .22 caliber.

EVERY pic I ever posted and claimed as I have done is 100% accurate.!!!!!!!!

Swampman1 will be along to back him up soon Tom

Just when you think you appreciate how dumb a person is, they go lower the bar....



I bet your still have the bullet scars on your ass from your dads attempt to do that...

Forgot about the other wondertwin....

There're in business to sell bullets.....The bullshit paid writers put on the glossy pages helps get that accomplished.

Swamp, I'd like you hear all about your vast experience with the 308 on game... to hold such a strong opinion it must be a tremendous amount.

Good luck getting an answer on that one. I'm guessing the answer is 0 and he'll change the subject.

No doubt.

Those that talk the loudest have the least to say...

Does he like anything else besides a 700 in 30-06?

Which admittedly will do a fine job on most anything, but it doesn't mean everything else sucks swampy...

I like a 700 in any caliber, I like an 870 in any gauge.

I have quite a few of both.

That certainly doesn't mean other rifle makes in different calibers aren't just as good, or in some cases better.

JM

I traded a bass fiddle for a Model 700 BDL in .308 and hunted with it for many years. It worked fine, and was highly accurate. Then I started collecting US Military rifles and it dawned on me the .308 offers considerably less than the .30-06 in the same weight and size rifle. I bought a Model 700 in .30-06 and gave the .308 to my son. The .308 is ok but isn't as good as the .30-06.

I keep trying other brands, but I never get one that's accurate and in fact they've been terrible....luck of the draw I guess. To each his own.

A guy has to try hard,to get an elder Sako to not dazzle.

Though I reckon you could screw that up too...............

The Sako was ok. The caliber made no sense.

Too small for deer, to large for varmints.

Laffin'!.............

In other words you have no experience with it on game...

I have to ask. What caliber Sako?

Dink

You're a good guy swampy. The inherent "humor" in your posts is priceless, even if you dont mean it to be.

Shot a lot of game with it.

.243

Swammpy, you've shot about as much game as Isaacs had successful sports bets.

Ask mom to buy you another copy of Guns & Ammo. When you grow up maybe she'll get you a .22.

Dreams don't count.....douche!!!

Speaks volumes that you are quick to weigh down your kid with inferior gear, even if the inferiority exists only inside your head.

Welcome to the Campfire Mr.schitstick, nice first post!

Gals and their Imaginations,never ain't not entertainin'. Few things better,than a Window Lickin' Tournament.


Bless their hearts..............

I love the 308 WIN. It is my favorite whitetail getter of them all. Started with it at 12 years old, still use it at 40.

GREAT cartridge, love it.

I use to have little use for it, as I started out with a 1919 Danish Krag and killed anything that I shot! Made me a meteric nut. After 40 plus years in a gun shop, I got a new Rem. 700 VTR in .308 Win. and it shoots so darn good I am itching to shoot something with it! Always been a fan of the M14 I started shooting in the Corps can't no black rifle hold a candle to them!

He wanted it. It was his before it was mine. Giving him an $800.00 rifle with a scope on it seems ok to me. He's 34 and flys jets in Afganistan when he isn't at Nellis serving as the CO for a bunch of Para Jumpers.

The .308 is ok for what it is. The .30-06 Short.

Your son clearly got his smarts from his mother.

Looks too I expect.

Lets hope.

LMAO

Nothing wrong with .308. Just prefer the 30-06, mainly out of habit. Not a window licker...just a spectator.

And the fact that it's (the .30-06) superior......

.....................That`s about how I would imagine Swampy! Funny!

Don`t see how anyone could dislike or hate the 308. Sure! It doesn`t have quite the power of the 30-06 and runs even further behind the 30 cal magnums. But it does what it was designed to do and offers hunters a less powerful option with less recoil chambered in shorter actioned lighter weight rifles. The 308 is also very common in heavier tactical rifles. And it is one of the most accurate 30s too.

Ballistically, the 308 is not a 30-06, nor is the 30-06 a 300 Win, nor is a 300 Win a 300 Wby, nor is the 338 Win a 340 Wby, nor does the 338 RUM have quite the power of the 338-378 Wby. On and on and on we can go with more examples.

Although velocity is needed, cartridge superiority is not just defined by velocity alone. What matters most, is that the hunter best match the cartridge to his specific need for game and distances.

No Swampy! The 30 caliber world doesn`t begin and/or end with the 30-06! Nor should it!

I think the .300H&H is a little better than the .30-06. The point being nothing is gained in a boltaction rifle with the .308.

It makes no sense in a boltgun. In a semi-auto or auto military rifle it does.

..........Oooops forgot about the (nearly obsolete?) 300 H&H. But that is another matter.

Now you may be of the "opinion" that nothing is gained, but all the rifle makers who make bolt actions chambered in the 308,,,,would highly disagree with you!

It doesn`t appear Swampy, that they have honored your opinion, nor will they be doing so. They`ll just keep on pluggin along, chambering the 308 and other rounds which you happen to feel there is no need for, aka the 308, the 375 Ruger, the 416 Ruger and probably a few others that you "feel" there is no need for.

In your case, one man`s trash, happens to be a treasure for many others.......

Their business is to sell rifles and that requires fooling people into thinking they need them. They do that by paying writers to do articles on those glossy pages at Books-A-Million. They are for the most part whores who will write anything for their check. Sad but most folks take all that as gospel and hate anyone who preaches common sense.

..............Well it is good thing that you are not in the rifle making business because you`d go frigging broke. And if you happened to be in the business of making rifles, you wouldn`t want your product or products to be promoted by a writer or two?????

Other than the Remington 700 and the 30-06, there are many other rifles and cartridges from which to choose. It is called variety in the marketplace. You let the marketplace dictate what it likes and what it dislikes.

And not all buyers make their buying decision based on what writers write. I didn`t buy my 375 Ruger based on what anyone wrote. I can discern between what writers write vs what I`m looking for in a rifle and cartridge. And if I had been influenced to a degree then so what? Did the 375 Ruger somehow fool me? Did my 300 WSM fool me? Did my 338-378 Accumark fool me too?

You obviously in your thinking, cannot seperate a buying decision vs being fooled!!!

So if folks buy something that in your opinion is needless, then they are somehow being fooled into buying them when they don`t need them? Hey Swamp! Ever heard of freedom of choice? Your money wasn`t used to buy their so-called un-needed rifle.

Since when are you the purveyor or soothsayer as to what is needed vs what is not needed there Swampy?

You wanna know what your problem is??? Here`s your problem Swampy!.......Along with a few older rounds, there are newer and recently intro`d cartridges that are literally reigning on your emotional and territorial parade which were and are a hit with the shooting public. Like since 1963, the 300 Win pushing aside the 300 H&H?? Over the last four years the 375 Ruger horning in on the beloved 375 H&H?? More 30 cal options than just the 30-06?? The 416 Ruger making a name for itself?? A few other examples here and there too?

You need to set your emotions and what other folks need aside, get your head out of the quicksand and realize that any buying decision needed or not,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,is a choice!!

When folks make the inferior choice without logic comming into play, they are dumbasses. I don't care if they are dumbasses.

.............That term ,,,,,,"inferior",,,,is strictly an emotional and biased opinion on your part!

Then by your view, I`m a pretty darn good dumbass then! I`m proud to own my dumbass 375 Ruger, my dumbass 300 WSM carbine, and my really dumbass 338-378 Wby Accumark,,,,all of which "by your standards" I don`t need???,,,,Right Swamp???

That`s ok! I`ll keep what you think I don`t need vs buying what you think that I do need!!!....

You may need them, but there are much better choices for many reasons.

Swampy........

It just kills me when an "also ran" troll tries to get in the middle of serious trolling.

Interesting how Swampy writes absolute drivel, but with good spelling and grammar...

...........As long as everyone`s choices agree with yours,,,,,then look NOOOOOO farther!

Sneezy and Swampy, a match made in heaven. After all, 1 in 5 relationships start on line ;o). They could both dazzle each other with their inexperience and comic drivel on things they no nothing about. It was comical with Swampy, now we have their combined IQ of a bubble gum machine. This just gets better and better. I betcha Sneezy challenges him to a shootoff with his Rugers....or a weiner eating contest.

I just popped a bowl of popcorn. This just gets better and better. Flinch

Pretty well sums it up.

...............Since you decided on the other thread and now on this one too, to start the name calling, insulting and etc, then I will follow your lead and state that you an idiot, a clown and a moron!!!! YOU CAN`T even correlate as to the approx manufacturing dates of any of your so-called previously owned turd Rugers????

Several years ago, Ruger began manufacuring their own barrels and along with that, substantially increasing their quality control in other areas, and you don`t even know or can tell, or even approximate, IF ONE OR ANY of your Rugers were manufactured BEFORE or AFTER Ruger made that change??? You are certainly, a damn dense piece of work!

Shove that popcorn up yer azz, one kernel at a time!!!!......

All Ruger longguns are turds.

..............ALL??? Prove it!!

I have to myself many many times...I'll never own another. You can buy turds if you like.

Clearly the same dude(ettes).

............Proving it only to yourself, is only a personal opinion and proves nothing more! Because for everyone who did have bad luck with them, there are many more including me, that have had the exact opposite experience.

I don`t expect you and Flinchy to start a Ruger fan club section soon.

No really there aren't. If there are any accurate Rugers they must still be at the factory.

The #1s are the very worst...well maybe not worse than the Mini-30 & Mini-14.

..................Come to my place Swampy!!! For the last three and four years now, I have had two of those Ruger rifles, that YOU say, are still at the factory.

I`ve tailored my handloads to WHAT both my Rugers happen to like. MOAS and less,,,ALL DAY LONG!

Ever heard of tailoring handloads to what "individual" rifles prefer?? Can`t do that with Rugers uh?

Well,,I have and do!!!

....................Not according to the very last pic on this thread showing his Ruger #1`s groupings!!

Keep going Swamp!!

As I keep saying pictures of targets posted on the internet mean nothing. They may have been shot at a few yards or with another brand of rifle. It's for sure that no factory stock Ruger shot those groups.

The biggest liar here calling someone else a liar....

Hilarious.

So if a pic of a target on the 'net is worth nothing, what's a picture of an "8 year old" dink that's been azz shot from a golf cart worth?

George

...............No factory Ruger uh??? Even using the best handloads the rifle prefers???

YOU ARE SO FULL OF CRAP THAT YOU NEED THE FOLLOWING!

More than one roll of TP to wipe yourself!
Knee high boots to wear, as your crap gets too high!
Eye wash to wash the brown from your eye balls!
Ear cleaner with a Q-tip to clean the brown from your ears!
Lots of Kleenex to blow the brown boogers from your nose!
An extra capacity toilet!

Even the best handloads can't overcome piss poor engineering.

Nothing...it proves nothing......In fact it isn't even what you think it is,

Go look at this idiot's posts for today.

Swampy has been caught in at least 4 lies that I have stumbled across.

Swampy, the novelty has worn off of you. You're just another boring, FOS idiot now.

Congrats...

Nope I've never been caught in a lie because I haven't told any.

Why do you come here?

Are you some kind of attention whore that loves being berrated?

Nobody here listens to anything you say because you lie.

Laffin

..........You`re still full of crap! Because if my two Ruger rifles has "piss poor" engineering, then please explain why I get moa and less groupings then!!! Luck? Luck? And more luck?

You are dilusional.

Three consecutive 5 shot 100 yard groups. My handloads, Hornady 50gr Vmax, 37.5 gr Varget. Factory barrel. I've seen a .243 and a .222 #1 that would do as well or better, and a .270 and a .300 mag that were nearly as good.

I grant you, the .375 H&H #1 I had was hard to shoot well, mainly as it kicked the snot out of you. I did eventually get some 1.25" groups with it.

Oh yeah, they're also prettier than your Swampy's rifles, too.

Pretty is as pretty does, an accurate #1 has been worked on.

I'm here to help the novice that comes here in good faith only to be treated like crap by the sophomoric bullies that run them off.

What a dickbump you are.

...........No! You are here to brainwash the novice into thinking, that the shooting world "ONLY" revolves around or should revolve around the Remington 700, the 30-06 and the 375 H&H.................PERIOD!

Any other views, especially when we can easily refute you, we then become "sophomoric bullies" who treat you like crap?"

You sound like a typical big damn "LIBERAL" who can`t handle facts and who can`t take some heat when confonted with ,,,,,evidence!

There have been numerous pics posted all over this forum from alot of Ruger owners showing very small moa and less groupings. And how does Swampy reply??..........Oh! "That`s not from 100 yards!"......"That wasn`t from a Ruger rifle!"......."The reeeel accurate Ruger rifles are still at the factory!"......"Rugers can never shoot that good."...........etc, etc, and etc. Facts be damned with Swampy.

In fact, you and Flinch should get together, swap some spit and become good butt bros. Those of a feather, should flock or fluck together?????.............

I was here a few days ago because I thought this thread was about our thoughts on the .308 win. I come back and find the thread has been hijacked by a bunch of name calling fools. Grow the [bleep] UP!!! No one is interested in your childish exchanges.
George

That is her to a tee

If someone could put a Ruger in a Green box...

DF

.....................Yep! And you can go back to page 35 starting with Flinch! One good insult (started by him), deserves another!

I agree...I was minding my own business until the fools came along.

the 308 is to much gun. Now the 300 sav is just right!

If you lose your ammo on the way to a hunt, you will not find any 300 Savage ammo at a local WalMart. 308 Win is one of the "easy to find" calibers. We all have our favorites but as I get older, practicality and availability are always a consideration.

That and the fact that the 308 Win shoots heavier bullets better than the 300 Savage.

Same for me. In fact, practicality and ease of availability are important enough to me that I rid my cabinet of all the oddballs years ago. If my local gunshop doesn't keep loaded ammo, brass and bullets in stock for it, I don't want it.

"I'm not hunting with that rifle! I might lose my ammo!!"

That's not the point a$$hole, convenience is.

You wear shoes with velcro, don't ya?

I agree

When all I could afford was one rifle for hunting in the South Carolina lowlands and piedmont areas, it was a .308. I have not been without one since. Very usefull cartridge. Easy to reload and get good accuracy, can find it anywhere, and can take most nondangerous game at the ranges the majority of us shoot them.
I guess it is too practical for those that do not like it.

Pretty well sums the .308 up. It works.....

Nothin but lacers here but the fact that pull-on's are very popular in Montana is duly noted.

Swampeee and big sneeze, the blind leading the naked. They were buddies 10 posts ago, now they are fighting over who has the best turd. Comical...I am popping more popcorn.

Keep it coming sneezy. I haven't been this entertained in a long time. Two whole rifles in how many years? Wowww...you are the rifle guru...and I bow before you and look up your dress.

I think it is time to challenge swamp pee to a shootoff. You go girl. Flinch

It's not the number of rifles you own, but how well you shoot those you do own.

I like them both. The .300 savage has that nostalgic cool to it though.

I recently put some Green Box through a Ruger with a 280 Rem.chamber. Only 10 rounds to get the scope reasonbly cloose for handload development, but the last 4 shots were better than MOA.

The rifle was a #1 to boot. Too bad Rugers can't shoot...

Somehow I got bored with the round within about 3 months into my first tour in Nam. Yeah, it kills chitt and shoots well, but...after 50-60K rounds....yawn....Mini-guns and M60s though..they'd be fairly cool even if they shot .22 WMR ammo...

Haven't fired a single round of .308 since late '72.

Caught in yet another lie!

?? You can only hunt with one at a time. What good is 500 guns if ya can't hit the broadside of a barn?

Is this post still going? Seriously?

In this video the 30-06 is a 300 yard gun and the 308 is a 1000 yard gun.

And both Rifles are Remingtons. Did he say "in the world"?