Originally Posted by Bugout4x4
Originally Posted by 4ager
Originally Posted by Bugout4x4
Originally Posted by 4ager
Originally Posted by Bugout4x4
Here's the deal...This all relates to Commercial Law. Our Courts uphold Commercial Law without question. If you sign a Contract to give up your first born then it is still held as needing to be honored and due by the signer.

An example would be the Old Spanish Land Grants that we had to purchase even though we had Won a war in Texas and redrawn the borders. Our own Constitution outlaws "Ex post facto" laws...Period.

So if a Rancher whether right or wrong has "Grandfather Rights" through the State or through a contract with an Indian Reserve it has legal standing and cannot be challenged.

This is where we are now with this Hammond situation and the Bundy situation. No matter what happened they are in the right and the Government has absolutely no right to even think about placing retroactive regulations on these old contracts.

This is a Constitutional fact. The most recent example of abuse of this is the State of California and the new Diesel Air Quality Standards.

They can indeed require any new vehicles to meet their standards but it is totally unconstitutional for them to make everyone "Retrofit" the vehicles or Engines that are already out there in use built prior to when the law was placed into effect.

This is Ex post Facto and Retroactive and completely unconstitutional whether we like it or not per the Constitution Article 1 Sec 9 Clause 3.

When we start to turn our heads to these facts we are all done for as owners of Firearms. Because we are next...


There's a classic example of a complete misunderstanding of the law and "rights" vs a contract.

Ex post facto laws are retroactive and unconstitutional. However, all the way back to 1798 the Constitutional prohibition on ex post facto laws was determined to be only applicable to criminal law. I.e., the Congress and by incorporation under the 14th Amendment the states cannot pass a law and make something criminally illegal that was previously legal and THEN prosecute prior actions when they were legal under the law. That would be an ex post facto law. Congress and the states are well within their powers to change laws and require compliance AFTER passage of said laws.

Further, this has absolutely nothing to so with any contractual agreement between the Feds (or any other party) as landowners/landlords from renegotiating lease agreements, or enforcing change provisions in said agreements. THAT is applicable to the various ranchers, including the Bundys. The Bundys do not have a "right" as defined and protected under the Constitution, but they have a contract with the Federal government under a lease agreement. To think that they have a "right" to do whatever they want on certain lands because they have had a lease for some period of time is akin to thinking that a rentor/tenant has the "right" to do whatever they want to a property even after the landlord and owner has refused to renew the contract, or is changing certain provisions of that contract for continued use. This is further compounded when rentors/leasors like the Bundys then refuse to pay their fees as determined in the lease agreement.

To conflate Rights, such as the Constitutionally enumerated and protected Right to Keep and Bear Arms, with a contractual interest is a severe flaw in understanding the Constitution, the law, and the situations at hand.


There is so much wrong with your statement. You apparently had less than the 8th grade required education of the Constitution test I was required to pass before I could go to High School.

This is what they would like you to "Understand it as" coming from an educator who's job it is to redefine the terminology to fit their personal agenda. Give me a bit and I will break it down for you bit by bit in relation to your statement points and proposed side skirting of the Constitution and what it upholds.

First we have to start with the actual facts of both situations...

Now keep in mind that we had folks "Disappear" on their way to testify in Court against the BLM take over back in the 70's...so this particular topic has been very dear to my Heart for many many years now. smile

YET...WE DID NOT SELL OUT TO THE EXTORTION...


I am quite sure I've studied more on the Constitution than you, and clearly have a FAR better grasp of it than you do.

Please, if there are flaws in what I posted point them out WITH specific citations to the Constitution and pertinent SCOTUS case law.

This, should be interesting.


Sure no problem...The 10th amendment is still in effect as precedent from what I understand...I'll be back... smile


Oh, good Lord... if you somehow think the 10th Amendment protects the "rights" of a leaser/renter to claim the use of property owned by someone else beyond an actual contractual lease/rental agreement - and that said use "rights" then continue in perpetuity after transfer of the property to other owners, AND after the renter/leaser stops paying on said lease/contract - then whomever "taught" you Constitutional law needs to be bitch slapped.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.