Hi guys, I'm starting a 1969 Mach 1 project for a customer.
I wish it was my car, but I'm thrilled to be the one that gets to have a run at the restoration even if it isn't mine.
The car was originally black jade, M code car, fmx trans, 3.25 locking diff.
Vin tag, door tag and buck tag are all intact and all match up to the car.
She's a little soft structurally, and somebody has repaired this car before me.... long before me.
So, I'll be unearthing old repairs and replacing some creative plate metal splints and full 2 ply body overlays with a little more love than it got on it's first makeover.
rear frame rails
LH front torque box
yep... LH front frame rail.
Anyways, initial tear down happening tonight.
only think I haven't figured out on this tag is the 028 at the end of the top line?
I will be ordering a LH rear torque box/front section of frame rail assembly, both rear halves of rear frame rails, some floor pans, front right torque box and front right frame rail, outer wheel houses, pretty much the entire trunk floor around the tank, trunk floor to quarter drops, full quarters (she's been skinned before, lots of overlap... forward apron halves.... possibly some rocker stuff.
That's just what I know about now prior to getting the paint off the car.
My plan is to support the car at the rocker pinch weld at 4 points (on my hoist) while I replace frame sections and torque boxes. Then I plan to move to rotisserie.
Toss up between a 67 and a 69 for my favorite year Mustang fastback.
That is one rust-sick puppy (and not in the cool kind of sick either). No doubt you'll do a first-rate job, but it will be interesting what else you find as you "peel the onion." Regardless, I look forward to progress pictures!
I'm definitely NOT a Ford guy but I love to watch how guys with the skill and knowledge to take on a project like this can make it happen. I'll be watching.
Very close, I'm driving to pick up some trim tomorrow that will allow me to button it up. Trim that I dropped off with a trim repair guy, and I can't wait as long as he says it will take so I'm going to go pick it up and fix it up myself.
What amazes me (beyond Dave's ability to do this kind of stuff) is that when he is done, the car will (rightly so) cause car buffs to fire off in their pants, but if someone so much as changes out a screw on a firearm, it instantly is regarded as some sort of crime against nature and its value plummets. Again, kudos to Dave - not meant to denigrate his work in any way.
I'll be watching in awe as you go Dave. Love fastback mustangs, 70 is my favorite but I could be pretty darn happy with a 69 I suppose. Did I miss what engine it has, had, or will have?
Dave; Good evening to you sir, hopefully this finds you and your fine family well.
In my hot rodding days a buddy had a '69 with a 302 in it - I want to say it was a Mach I, but can't recall exactly now.
It had a shaker hood and rear spoiler - and my goodness did it move.
While I was never really a Ford guy - even though I ended up owning a few of their pickup - the 69 Mustang is my personal favorite.
Even though I might not comment all the time Dave, this is one I'll be watching as it goes on.
Thanks for taking the time to take the photos and post by the way, I really enjoy your "build" threads immensely.
All the best to you and yours Dave.
Dwayne
BC30cal, I also thoroughly enjoy reading Dave's posts. I hope he never stops posting. He is of the same breed and kindred spirit to my younger brother who has built many muscle cars and trucks from the ground up, like Dave. The last car my brother rebuilt was '69 350 Camaro, built Pro-Touring style from the ground up. IMHO, these are the class of the class, if you're not restoring to spec.
Dave has forgot more than I will ever know, but I believe the '69 Mustang 302 you are speaking of could be the Boss 302. If I'm wrong, I'll gladly stand corrected. IIRC, it was the direct competition to the '69 Z28 with the 302 motor.
A limited number of the Z28's were fitted with the 350 small block motor. In the words of my hot rodder/drag car buddy across the street about the '69 Camaros in general, as he paces around shaking his head: "one of the most sought after cars on the face of the earth".
He runs a '66 Nova drag car with a built to the hilt 350. It is a beast.
I was blessed to own a '68 SS with a 350 small block back in the day. It was a beauty, possibly now costing 100 times the price we paid in 1972, depending on which auction you may see one in. Aging myself here..
to bad it doesnt have the high nickel 69 351w block in it. My buddy still has a stock block 69 with TFS highports done by ronnie sharp (rousch racing cylinder head/cam guy) that i i had splayed 4bolt caps put on, and bored/stroked to 425CI. Its a n20 motor. ran 9.80 on motor, and 8.30s on nitrous, for 4 years... they are by far the strongest o the 5.0-5.8 windsor blocks
to bad it doesnt have the high nickel 69 351w block in it. My buddy still has a stock block 69 with TFS highports done by ronnie sharp (rousch racing cylinder head/cam guy) that i i had splayed 4bolt caps put on, and bored/stroked to 425CI. Its a n20 motor. ran 9.80 on motor, and 8.30s on nitrous, for 4 years... they are by far the strongest o the 5.0-5.8 windsor blocks
We may need to call him if we do go down the path of returning a small block ford/fMX combo under the hood. we will need brackets for things like alt, ps pump, correct pulleys, fan etc.
I'm thinking a real time web cam in your shop, linked to a page where we could all watch would probably be responsible for more than one person becoming unemployed....
I was actually considering doing that for customers, but it wouldn't be an open cam, customer would have to log in.
That's too much F'ing around though. I take pics of important stuff with my phone as I'm working and when Pam shows up she grabs a decent camera and takes "fun shots" for the customer.
like such:
Alrighty friends, I've got an all day road trip to go get that ford galaxie trim.
somebody asked me how i establish a down payment, payment schedule, estimate etc?
I just tell people to send me everything they have got, turn the piggy bank upside down etc. If there's any money left over when I'm done, I put it in the glove compartment or the ash tray.
Ok, it might be a little more complicated than that....
a period stock color would be best. what does a restoration like this end up costing? The biggest problem we had back in the 90's fixing salvage cars was getting a decent paint job. everyone that did body work begged to get to paint it too. only problem is they all sucked at it.
I just Googled '69 M Code and saw Cleveland so figured it was?.
Sounds like it could get fun!
IIRC the 351C was first produced in 1970. So it wouldn't be correct for the 69 unless it was a very late production and Ford dropped some into them which wouldn't surprise me in the least.
Dave, There's a lot of metal being scrapped off that car and renewed (in the truest sense of the word).
Coupla' questions:
A.) What do you pick as your control point / "survey Stake" from which to square everything up on the diagonal, for correct height, parallelism, and other alignment mojos critical to handling and tracking ?
B.) Do you measure optically as well as with measuring devices ?
Cheers, and thanks for another interesting thread aborning !
to bad it doesnt have the high nickel 69 351w block in it. My buddy still has a stock block 69 with TFS highports done by ronnie sharp (rousch racing cylinder head/cam guy) that i i had splayed 4bolt caps put on, and bored/stroked to 425CI. Its a n20 motor. ran 9.80 on motor, and 8.30s on nitrous, for 4 years... they are by far the strongest o the 5.0-5.8 windsor blocks
A Dart block is miles better.
not when you're a grudge racer. But in other cases yes. Though I have broke a dart SHP block in a car going 8.80s My fault, rattled the motor, and it cracked the web
Back in my younger days I owned a 1970 Mach I 428 CJ, it was yellow with black trim, black window louvers and black spoiler, it had the rare drag pack, wish I still had it. The girls sure liked it, if that back seat could only talk.
As I was/am heading towards retirement I decided I wanted to toy with an earlier car. I had mid-60's Corvette's before kids. Didn't really have a care whether Ford, GM or Mopar just did not want to spend a wad and I wanted something to work on with my youngest son. I found this clean, rust free car in SoCal for a song. All original and most rebuilt, repainted, etc. Jr now knows how to use a timing light and also what a jolt feels like. We are having fun with it.
Dave, There's a lot of metal being scrapped off that car and renewed (in the truest sense of the word).
Coupla' questions:
A.) What do you pick as your control point / "survey Stake" from which to square everything up on the diagonal, for correct height, parallelism, and other alignment mojos critical to handling and tracking ?
B.) Do you measure optically as well as with measuring devices ?
Cheers, and thanks for another interesting thread aborning !
GTC
I plan to level the car, supported by 4 points at the rockers.
That's my plan anyways, level the rockers, reference them for my frame rail placement per ford drawings.
Not to make light of the whole spectrum of challenges involved in this line of tradesmanship,...
The ALIGNMENT "mojo" is what drove me crazy anytime I messed with unibody / subframed vehicles.Did this for friends that needed help with old, salt damaged classics out of Eastern Canada.
Always made me glad that my primary focus was larger vehicles, trucks, etc.
The thing with "Jigs" and Fixtures is that they are virtually ALWAYS in the way of piano wiring, string lining, or optical measurement.Remember we're REaligning things here, not doing an initial build.
I'd say something along the lines of a giant universal protractor that one could roll in and out underneath might make life easier.
Hope I didn't spoil Dave's fishin' trip with this brainstorming.
Hi guys, I'm starting a 1969 Mach 1 project for a customer.
I wish it was my car, but I'm thrilled to be the one that gets to have a run at the restoration even if it isn't mine.
The car was originally black jade, M code car, fmx trans, 3.25 locking diff.
Vin tag, door tag and buck tag are all intact and all match up to the car.
She's a little soft structurally, and somebody has repaired this car before me.... long before me.
So, I'll be unearthing old repairs and replacing some creative plate metal splints and full 2 ply body overlays with a little more love than it got on it's first makeover.
rear frame rails
LH front torque box
yep... LH front frame rail.
Anyways, initial tear down happening tonight.
only think I haven't figured out on this tag is the 028 at the end of the top line?
I will be ordering a LH rear torque box/front section of frame rail assembly, both rear halves of rear frame rails, some floor pans, front right torque box and front right frame rail, outer wheel houses, pretty much the entire trunk floor around the tank, trunk floor to quarter drops, full quarters (she's been skinned before, lots of overlap... forward apron halves.... possibly some rocker stuff.
That's just what I know about now prior to getting the paint off the car.
My plan is to support the car at the rocker pinch weld at 4 points (on my hoist) while I replace frame sections and torque boxes. Then I plan to move to rotisserie.
Alrighty, I'll post pics as we progress.
Is that a firewall tag? I believe that number 28 designates as the DSO number for Louisville.
Hi guys, I'm starting a 1969 Mach 1 project for a customer.
I wish it was my car, but I'm thrilled to be the one that gets to have a run at the restoration even if it isn't mine.
The car was originally black jade, M code car, fmx trans, 3.25 locking diff.
Vin tag, door tag and buck tag are all intact and all match up to the car.
She's a little soft structurally, and somebody has repaired this car before me.... long before me.
So, I'll be unearthing old repairs and replacing some creative plate metal splints and full 2 ply body overlays with a little more love than it got on it's first makeover.
rear frame rails
LH front torque box
yep... LH front frame rail.
Anyways, initial tear down happening tonight.
only think I haven't figured out on this tag is the 028 at the end of the top line?
I will be ordering a LH rear torque box/front section of frame rail assembly, both rear halves of rear frame rails, some floor pans, front right torque box and front right frame rail, outer wheel houses, pretty much the entire trunk floor around the tank, trunk floor to quarter drops, full quarters (she's been skinned before, lots of overlap... forward apron halves.... possibly some rocker stuff.
That's just what I know about now prior to getting the paint off the car.
My plan is to support the car at the rocker pinch weld at 4 points (on my hoist) while I replace frame sections and torque boxes. Then I plan to move to rotisserie.
Alrighty, I'll post pics as we progress.
Is that a firewall tag? I believe that number 28 designates as the DSO number for Louisville.
That's a build or "buck tag" screwed to the passenger side of radiator support.
I had a '69 fastback with a 351 Windsor and the FMX auto. Fun car, and the 1969 is a favorite mustang. Also had a '65 GT coupe with a K-code 289 and a 4-speed.
You can't go wrong with black but Acapulco Blue is one of my favorite Mustang colors. There are some I haven't heard of in the attached link. Beatnick Blue looks good. I'd keep it the original or a factory color.
I found the factory build sheets under the carpet of my '70 Mach One. It was interesting to see the color codes for the various parts that went on the car. ie: under front spring it said gld pnk, the springs have a gold and pink paint stripe/ dab on them.
As I was/am heading towards retirement I decided I wanted to toy with an earlier car. I had mid-60's Corvette's before kids. Didn't really have a care whether Ford, GM or Mopar just did not want to spend a wad and I wanted something to work on with my youngest son. I found this clean, rust free car in SoCal for a song. All original and most rebuilt, repainted, etc. Jr now knows how to use a timing light and also what a jolt feels like. We are having fun with it.
Nice looking '73, this is my "Eleanor" a '71, 300hp 351C w/ C-6, I don't have pics of my '72 uploaded yet.
As I was/am heading towards retirement I decided I wanted to toy with an earlier car. I had mid-60's Corvette's before kids. Didn't really have a care whether Ford, GM or Mopar just did not want to spend a wad and I wanted something to work on with my youngest son. I found this clean, rust free car in SoCal for a song. All original and most rebuilt, repainted, etc. Jr now knows how to use a timing light and also what a jolt feels like. We are having fun with it.
Nice looking '73, this is my "Eleanor" a '71, 300hp 351C w/ C-6, I don't have pics of my '72 uploaded yet.
Rooster remembers a guy that had one like that when we were kids.
I think maybe I remember too....
Lived that car, rooster, do you know if Scott still has it?
As I was/am heading towards retirement I decided I wanted to toy with an earlier car. I had mid-60's Corvette's before kids. Didn't really have a care whether Ford, GM or Mopar just did not want to spend a wad and I wanted something to work on with my youngest son. I found this clean, rust free car in SoCal for a song. All original and most rebuilt, repainted, etc. Jr now knows how to use a timing light and also what a jolt feels like. We are having fun with it.
Nice looking '73, this is my "Eleanor" a '71, 300hp 351C w/ C-6, I don't have pics of my '72 uploaded yet.
The original Gone in 60 Seconds, filmed in Carson and Long Beach, is one of my favorite movies - so "B" but so great. Most of the "actors" were stuntmen if I recall. And they didn't get a lot of permits to do that stuff - it was very gorilla movie making.
OK. Here's one to make you all sick. My brother with his just purchased 67 GT 500 with the very rare 427 medium riser. This in 1974 at a cost of $4700. What would it sell for today?
I took the time to drive down to ND's shop yesterday. I wanted to see some projects in person before they went down the road. The '69 Ford has an unbelievably flawless paint job. The old "Stang" is well on it's way to being another car that will be way better than new. The old Tin Chicken (Road Runner) was a beauty even though I didn't get a ride in it but the lines were flawless.
The shop....... I wish mine was that organized and clean.
If you catch ND on the right day, and time, he might, just might share a brew with a visitor. I was glad to be one of those.
OK. Here's one to make you all sick. My brother with his just purchased 67 GT 500 with the very rare 427 medium riser. This in 1974 at a cost of $4700. What would it sell for today?
Holy Chit! That car is coveted today! What did your bro do with it?
BTW, that looks like the set of the TV show "The Wonder Years" lol
I think I would poop a kidney if someone handed me the keys to that thing. After the Cobra THAT car is the last word in my book. Cannot imagine owning that... What a ride....
I was able to give all of my attention to the mach 1 today. My goal was to remove rear axle and springs, and all of the front suspension, steering etc.
Wow, she fought me bad.
Wore my ass out.
All of the leaf eye bolts were bent. None of them would come out. I feel like I used every tool in the shop to get those bolts out. Porto power, plasma torch, welder, pullers, sawzall, hammers... It was terrible, but I got it.
I had an easy day compared to you ND. I split the tracks on an excavator (hammer, no press) and got some undercarriage parts ordered then burnt about 10# of rod on a lowboy. A bunch of hardfacing to do then I can just pull levers all summer. HAHAHAHA I wish.
I'm happy to see you do what you love and do an amazing job as well.
It's great being close enough to go see these works-of-art in person.
OK Dave, free advice time though I would gladly send you check. My '73 Mach 1 has a "new", by receipts, steering box (PS BTW) yet an azzload of slop. The rest of the steering components appear to be tight and it is clear eyeballing things that the wheel movement starts before the output of the box begins. I found a fair bit of slop in the worm gear lash adjustment but not all. As I have been lead to believe, one should back out said lash and tighten the input shaft bushing nut first, then the lash. Thoughts? PM if needed.
I hate to draw focus away from the steering gear because i'm sure you are right, but have you looked at idler arm?
for a lot of these steering boxes, not just mustangs, rebuilt doesn't mean much in the way of internals.
I'm not intimately familiar with the steering gear set up process for your car but often times there is a lengthy process which involves lock to lock rotation, a torque wrench on the steering shaft, certain tire contact pressure with the floor etc...
I will have a 5 volume shop manual in a couple of days, if I get a chance I'll have a look in there for you.
The 71-73 Mustangs, like Ed's, use a Saginaw 800 steering box……huge improvement over the previous power steering system used in Mustangs.
Bought a saginaw 800 box out of an IROC Z (fast ratio, high effort) for my son's 73 Mustang convertible project. Different mounting points, so we may have to swap the IROC internals into the Mustang case, but should be a great upgrade over the factory box.
I guess I'm lucky that way. We have some crappy winters, the heating bill makes me think I'm crazy, but I can leave stuff.like this sanded bare metal for months.
after scraping some undercoating and also what looks like roofing tar, i discovered some troubling findings up in both torque box areas (front).
It looks as if someone replaced front TB's .
This scares the hell out of me due to the quality of work that I have unearthed through the rest of the car. I can see that the toe boards are gone over the top of the torque boxes. Someone decided to say the hell with it and just run the torque box tops as floors.
Inner cowl sides are ate up as well. Someone was in the area, replaced torque boxes with tiny little flux core mig welds, at least half of which are missed welds, and they didnt fix the cowl sides or toe boards. My fear is that they also did not locate the torque boxes correctly. The TB on the LH side is the wrong one for the car, there is no guide tube for the E-brake cable. (so they just unbolted the e-brake and tossed it)
here is one of many bandaid style overlay patches I rempved from the fender well side of the torque box to firewall area. Anyone missing a glossy brown metallic chunk of metal from their 1992 Bonneville?
Dave, I've heard the term torque box several times in connection with Mustangs, but what exactly is a torque box?
TB's are basically structural anchor points within the unibody type construction. they will be located in critical connection areas for various reasons. Usually to do with load bearing connection points for suspension components. The rear TB's on this stang carry the front eyelets of the leaf springs. Which is kind of a big deal...
The front TB's on this car support the front frame rails, they help attach the frame rails to the body at the firewall, rocker, forward floor pans and trans crossmember points.
Front and rear torque boxes on this car tie heavily into the inner rocker, the rockers basically connect the front and rear portions of the "frame".
instead of having an iron frame loaded with suspension, axles, steering components etc with a body set on top of it, these cars have no "frame" they are a body that is reinforced on the bottom side with added provisions to support the suspension/steering components directly to the body.
That's why when you hear somebody with a camaro, a mustang, a road runner, a charger, cuda, challenger etc bragging about their "frame off restoration", you should wind up your leg, go on ahead and punt their little man berries straight up into their neck area, then punch em in the neck.
Wow, to see how much cancer and ick is buried in what looked like an OK car to begin with...... makes me pretty afraid of any cars this old unless I have the bucks to do a proper restoration like you are dooing.
I am probably going to inherit my dads '66 Cadillac Coupe De Ville convertable when he passes someday. He might even sell it to me cheap before then as a way to make sure it goes where he wants it to. I hope that there is enough cash in my wallet when it happens to send the car straight to you do be re done, RIGHT.
Probably will want to upgrade the brakes, though, to disk brakes instead of the old drums all the way around.
Dave, I've heard the term torque box several times in connection with Mustangs, but what exactly is a torque box?
TB's are basically structural anchor points within the unibody type construction. they will be located in critical connection areas for various reasons. Usually to do with load bearing connection points for suspension components. The rear TB's on this stang carry the front eyelets of the leaf springs. Which is kind of a big deal...
The front TB's on this car support the front frame rails, they help attach the frame rails to the body at the firewall, rocker, forward floor pans and trans crossmember points.
Front and rear torque boxes on this car tie heavily into the inner rocker, the rockers basically connect the front and rear portions of the "frame".
instead of having an iron frame loaded with suspension, axles, steering components etc with a body set on top of it, these cars have no "frame" they are a body that is reinforced on the bottom side with added provisions to support the suspension/steering components directly to the body.
That's why when you hear somebody with a camaro, a mustang, a road runner, a charger, cuda, challenger etc bragging about their "frame off restoration", you should wind up your leg, go on ahead and punt their little man berries straight up into their neck area, then punch em in the neck.
Dave, I worked on one of this vintage when I was up in Alberta.
That car was owned and run in "Road Salt Central", Ottowa, Ontario.
The damage was virtually IDENTICAL to what you picture, and as well, some bunyack had performed similar "repairs",...right down to and including the roofing tar. Hell man, maybe the same shop ?
......anyway, suitably moused together and splash job painted, the car was sold to a VERY naive Albertan.
The insurmountable ( for me, anyway) problems that I hit with that job were what inspired me to inquire as to just where the hell one STARTS to measure / survey for aligning / re aligning. I dodged the bullet and told the owner that he needed somebody far more qualified in bodywork, just a dumb welder, etc.
I have confidence that you will get this thing done right, but you really have your work cut out for ya' on this one, no ?
Cross, I'm expecting a 5 volume reprint of 1969 mustang shop manual today. I'm told that my answers to measurement and reference point questions are in that book, I'm hoping so anyways.
Dave, on the 69 my friend did last summer I helped him one night spread the shock towers back out to where the should be so the one piece shock tower brace and monte carlo bar would fit properly across the engine compartment.
Dave, I worked on one of this vintage when I was up in Alberta.
That car was owned and run in "Road Salt Central", Ottowa, Ontario.
The damage was virtually IDENTICAL to what you picture, and as well, some bunyack had performed similar "repairs",...right down to and including the roofing tar. Hell man, maybe the same shop ?
......anyway, suitably moused together and splash job painted, the car was sold to a VERY naive Albertan.
The insurmountable ( for me, anyway) problems that I hit with that job were what inspired me to inquire as to just where the hell one STARTS to measure / survey for aligning / re aligning. I dodged the bullet and told the owner that he needed somebody far more qualified in bodywork, just a dumb welder, etc.
I have confidence that you will get this thing done right, but you really have your work cut out for ya' on this one, no ?
I'll bet your stomach is in knots. I don't envy you. On the other hand we don't doubt for a second your ability to get the job done properly! Good luck and thanks for taking us along for the ride! Doug
I dont think color has been picked yet but I vote for this original black jade, here is a narrow strip from under the rear widow gasket, it has never seen sunlight before.
A pothole would have been catastrophic in that 'stang
He's very good, very sensible man that wan't things done correctly.
... and apparently has a lotta dough...
You guys watch too many TV shows.
I watched these old fat guys on tv stuff a bland ass crate motor in an el Camino and then they gave it a crappy rat rod paint job... Sorry, I threw up a little...
Door, fender, hood gaps, all over the place, nothing lined up, I'm telling ya it looked like hell even with the magic of flat paint and television. And they would have us believe they charged the guy 33k to do that to his poor car.
Yeah well, this mustang is getting some serious work done, for a serious customer and I don't know if we will hit 30k on this extensive build. After engine and trans yes its likely we will go above 30.
But using TV car shows as a baseline for judging cost on this build.... Some might figure we are going north of 100k.
So I'm not the only one that's left shaking my head watching the tv car shows thinking man they do crappy work and charge way too much? It's more the quicky half azzed jobs that bug me than the high prices. I mean, if you're going to the trouble to tear a car down to rebuild it, do it right. Seems like they run the inverse 80/20 rule, do 20% of the work and charge the customer 80% of what the complete job would run.
Watching that 'Biker" horsechit where the Father's always fighting with his son, and they are ALWAYS late, and they get parts finish painted before teetering around on a fender with no pilot hole, just a hand drill, finish size,.... and than bolt through a raggy azz hole was one of the reasons I just QUIT with the TV bit.
Not the least bit shy of drilling holes in the FRAME to bolt crap on, either.
There are those who know how to do things right watching, and yet they don't care.
Naw, we'll be ok. Thank god the owner wants it done right, that's really all I need. If I had the same car with an owner that wanted me to cut corners on this important stuff, then I would want to run away.
I plan to attack back half, then front half. I will support from front TB's and from the rocker pinch welds just forward of the rear TB's. I will do this on the adjustable pads of my hoist to level the body, they have individual screw adjustments.
I will remove the rear torque boxes first, I expect the LH inner rocker to need repair at the torque box interface, I can see it is bad before even removing the torque box. So, remove TB and the floor above it, repair inner rocker, install new torque box. Repeat on RH hopefully with no inner rocker repair needed. At that point I can move the rear hoist pads to the bottoms of the new torque boxes. Next I basically cut the back of the car off.
I guess it's too much to type out on an iPad tonight, basically I need to get the structure repaired before I can mount it on a rotisserie.
It's going to be a sumbich, you will just have to watch and see.
My skills are limited but I may be able to help you out on that one. I'll be pulling levers in a couple weeks so my time is limited. I still have my fare share of welding, cutting, pounding, & wrench pulling to do before the season starts but I do still work on some old sleds for fun.
I plan to attack back half, then front half. I will support from front TB's and from the rocker pinch welds just forward of the rear TB's. I will do this on the adjustable pads of my hoist to level the body, they have individual screw adjustments.
I will remove the rear torque boxes first, I expect the LH inner rocker to need repair at the torque box interface, I can see it is bad before even removing the torque box. So, remove TB and the floor above it, repair inner rocker, install new torque box. Repeat on RH hopefully with no inner rocker repair needed. At that point I can move the rear hoist pads to the bottoms of the new torque boxes. Next I basically cut the back of the car off.
I guess it's too much to type out on an iPad tonight, basically I need to get the structure repaired before I can mount it on a rotisserie.
It's going to be a sumbich, you will just have to watch and see.
You make this car resto stuff sound komplikated. Glad I don't do it.
Pull up the floor mat and insulation- find a piece of aluminum 1/8" or so thick (I've heard that road signs are about that thickness)- cut amount needed to completely cover the bad area with plenty left around edges- use large hammer to "custom fit" aluminum to shape of floor plan- pop-rivet aluminum to floor- install insulation and floor mat.
I ordered an inner rocker for this thing on Wed, it should be here next Tuesday.
I didn't know if I would use a full inner rocker or not, but I can see I will be replacing it full length before these new torque boxes and floors etc go in.
Here's a look inside a rotten front frame rail with a crappy band aid plate patch welded to the outside of it.
You're darn near building a new car around the VIN plate. Reminds me of some wooden boat restorations where there is more replacement wood than original.
Copper fuel line... I haven't seen one of them on a car in a long while, and never on a car that didn't have a stainless fuel tank and modified carb for burning "high performance, non-petrol fuels".
I had a 72 bronco that was repaired by the same guy that did this Mustang. I swear, had to be be the same guy, there can't be two bubbas that like to F up good old Fords that bad.
I moved the hoist pads inward and braced the A and B pillars to the inner rocker that I am leaving on the car. I'd like to replace the whole inner rocker but the mid section looks solid and I don't want the body to shift on me. I've got this thing so cut up, it would get too floppy if I pulled the entire inner rocker.
I moved to the front of the rocker and cut this junk out.
I will be cutting replacement pieces from a full length inner rocker plate.
I haven't posted on the stang for a while, but I have an update. I replaced those front and rear sections of the inner rocker plate, it went very well. Then this afternoon I finished up fitting and welding the LH rear torque box and frame section.
If anybody here has ever done this personally... Wow, ain't it something? Lol.
Fitting was slow, place the TB, clamp in place, measure, measure, measure, then mark, take it down, grind a bit, refit, measure, mark, take down......
Final fitting, inside of old frame rail and new frame rail primed with zinc rich weld through primer, tacked in place.
Notice the 4 holes drilled close to the frame joint on side of frame rail. There is a stiffener plate inside the original frame rail, I was able to salvage it in place and plug weld to the internal plate.
beer brats with sauerkraut, wasabi and yella mustard.
Sort of a Wisconsin/Japanese thing? Redneck meets Kamo Gari? Immodium needs a fire extinguisher? I don't get it. Must be a Northern Minnesota Renaissance man thing. Oh well, to the Birthday Boy go the spoils. To his family, well, use the other bathroom for a while.
beer brats with sauerkraut, wasabi and yella mustard.
Sort of a Wisconsin/Japanese thing? Redneck meets Kamo Gari? Immodium needs a fire extinguisher? I don't get it. Must be a Northern Minnesota Renaissance man thing. Oh well, to the Birthday Boy go the spoils. To his family, well, use the other bathroom for a while.
I was thinking kind of a Kamo Gari - Sgt Schultz sort of thing.
I think maybe there was a packers fan involved too.
Still somewhat undecided on the direction of the build. We have a little time to decide, I am thinking it will lean heavy to the stock side with some mild upgrades if any.
Meanwhile, there is plenty to rebuild under this car before we really pin down a final direction for the car.
I'll get the structure sound, fix the body and we will see where it goes from there.
Still somewhat undecided on the direction of the build. We have a little time to decide, I am thinking it will lean heavy to the stock side with some mild upgrades if any.
Meanwhile, there is plenty to rebuild under this car before we really pin down a final direction for the car.
I'll get the structure sound, fix the body and we will see where it goes from there.
That raises a question, Dave. You've shown us repeatedly that you're a heckuva handy guy with some serious skills, so it there are performance tweaks such as getting in to the engine, will you do those, too?
But I wont be adding any machining equipment. I will be sending cranks, blocks, heads out for cutting, boring etc.
The most I see myself doing in my shop in that regard would be valve jobs maybe, I might keep my eyes open for a used machine.
But as far as bolt it together type of work, yes. Also I'm not opposed to some old fashioned overhaul type work with a cylinder hone, new set of rings, bearings, gaskets, wear parts, lap a set of valves... what ever, the kind of stuff nobody screws with any more. It seems like folks these days think a crate engine is the only option.
I was thinking kind of a Kamo Gari - Sgt Schultz sort of thing.
I know NUUUTHINK! NUUUTHINK! Especially about wasabi on a dog. What kind of obscene food sorcery is this, anyway?
From the same guy that mixed black coffee with his instant oatmeal because it was going to save time and be delicious...
(that was gross)
ok folks, here we go....
Now I'm back on the stang.
I removed the LH front frame rail, shock tower and aprons.
I've fit the new LH front frame rail weldment and torque box.
I cut as close as I could with the plasma around the LH shock tower and began drilling and splitting to separate all the old apron and frame junk from it.
Some repairs will need to be made, but I want to save this tower because it has the VIN stamped in it.
shock tower to frame rail interface, prior to drilling and splitting.
I will be ordering a LH rear torque box/front section of frame rail assembly, both rear halves of rear frame rails, some floor pans, front right torque box and front right frame rail, outer wheel houses, pretty much the entire trunk floor around the tank, trunk floor to quarter drops, full quarters (she's been skinned before, lots of overlap... forward apron halves.... possibly some rocker stuff.
That's just what I know about now prior to getting the paint off the car.
My plan is to support the car at the rocker pinch weld at 4 points (on my hoist) while I replace frame sections and torque boxes. Then I plan to move to rotisserie.
enjoyable reading this read, after owning a couple old Fords, and working on more than a few of them.
I recall when I was about ten, we pulled into a Mercury dealer to pick up a new Mercury sedan. Parked right next to a 69 Mach I. Man I was smitten with that car. I didn't appreciate it at the time, but the Marquis Dad bought, with the 429 pre-emission motor, was a beast of a sedan, too.
Is the 390 motor original to the car? In Dad's garage they did a valve job on a 390 that belonged to a college student. It was marked 390, but when they got the heads off, it had the 4 1/4" bores of a 427
I'm getting that car hankering again. The new truck isn't going anywhere, but the 04 may get traded or sold to fund something interesting.
Is the 390 motor original to the car? In Dad's garage they did a valve job on a 390 that belonged to a college student. It was marked 390, but when they got the heads off, it had the 4 1/4" bores of a 427
You could get the mach I with a 390 s code ~ 320hp.
Most I've seen had a 351w and you could get it with 2 different ones. An H code 250hp and a M code 320 hp. I'd think it would handle pretty well on the road with the lighter 351w.
But for the pucker factor you could get two different versions of the 428 cobra jet. I don't remember the codes for those but one of them had the 427 heads, and that could very well be what you were looking at in your dad's garage?
I think they were rated for like 325hp but anyone that ever hit the "go switch" on a 428 knows for damn sure they were north of 400hp.
Dave allways great to see what you love to do,and do well.
how do you deal with the surface rust that is on all the inside pannels???
thanks norm
A lot of these areas aren't as bad as the photos make them look. Inside the side cowl area where the Idaho shaped patch went, that's all red oxide primed from the factory. There is surface rust too, just not as horrible as the photos make it look. These areas will be either sanded clean or media blasted prior to a combination of etch prime and epoxy prime.
This car is sort of an odd duck, I say that because of all the band aid patch work that I am undoing. It would have been nice to have it all media blasted prior to my cutting and welding but this car has so many 2 ply sheet metal areas due to patch efforts in its past, media blasting wouldn't help me much.
I basically have to undo all that back yard bandaid work, fix the structure so the car is strong enough to put on a rotisserie, then I can come back in and media blast these areas.
Gotta point these youngsters in the right direction, ya know.
There are some hot dog joints that don't even have ketchup on the property, and God forbid you start slathering ketchup on a dog at Wrigley Field! You'll be stoned with beer and Coke cups.
at what point does all this cutting and replacing lead to problems with affecting the end value of the car after restoration?? Your work actually looks awesome to me. The biggest one I would worry about is the new shock towers and getting them back to original position.
if your going to put 10's of thousands into a frame off resto I would want a better donor car.
lastly and this is just an opinion question. I have always been a chevy guy, loved the chevelles. but recently the 67 and 68 model mustangs have really grown on me. as far as original build quailty were these better cars than the chevys? For some reason the mustangs seem simpler and better put together.
It may be a bit personal so no answer is OK, but I assume you do this work at a quoted hourly rate and keep daily logs of your hours? The guy I bought my Mach 1 from in San Diego had a lot of work done by a local very high end builder of customs and resto's and the daily logs backing the bill have hours down for spending time on-line buying parts. Makes sense as the employee is getting paid while doing so. Just curious if this is the norm.
It may be a bit personal so no answer is OK, but I assume you do this work at a quoted hourly rate and keep daily logs of your hours? The guy I bought my Mach 1 from in San Diego had a lot of work done by a local very high end builder of customs and resto's and the daily logs backing the bill have hours down for spending time on-line buying parts. Makes sense as the employee is getting paid while doing so. Just curious if this is the norm.
I'm sure I've seen a worse start of a car, I just can't remember where! I can't believe all the work you're doing Dave and it's inspiring! Keep it up man, this thread rocks!
Cutting holes in the shock towers was pretty standard with the group I ran with. It was about the only way to lube the upper A-arm bushings. I never cared for it though and thought it looked like crap, especially when cut with a torch like the ones on this car were. Glad to see you're fixing them.
You know, I'm soon 45 yrs old. I can't remember when I stopped believing in magical stuff like easter bunny, tooth fairy, Santa, etc. But its been quite a while.
I cannot for the life of me begin to speculate exactly what it was that held the front of this car attached to the main body.
I'm stumped, I really am.
Magic?
I don't know how else to explain it. It had to be magic.
Here we go diving into that was thought to be the "strong side" of this front end.
Surprise! The inner rocker plate is bad too.
Peeling the onion....
Well, I can look at the other side for inspiration I guess.
The real discouraging part is that my assessments have been off by quite a bit. I had originally just purchased a front outer section of this RH front frame rail. The bumper bracket interface, below the battery tray. Later I decided I needed a full length outer plate for this frame rail....
Now I'm wondering if I should have ordered a complete fraim rail weldment like I did for the LH side.
I may have to. I see now that my outer frame plate is a full inch too short in overall length.
What a joke.
I will cut the front and rear sections of the frame open and see is repair sections are feasable. If it looks like a good option I will cut this outer frame plate, turn it into 2 repair sections.
If it looks like a crappy option, I will order another complete frame rail.
no, no...a yenko clone. big difference. Like a $100k difference.
Uhh - No - documented Yenko he bought when he was done with Nam.
But at 19 years old - where was I going to get 45k? Remember this is 1996 - long before the surge in prices we're seeing due to the auction shows and the like.
I saw it in some car mag a few years later with the est value of 120k on it. Bout chit.
It gets a little lonely in the shop during the day.
I had a phone scammer call me today, middle eastern accent, he said he was "ewe ess gobber ment". (US government)
I was just happy to have someone to talk to but he got frustrated and hung up on me.
L O L, He couldn't understand your accent !!!
Schitt's probably true.
I made him repeat "ewe ess gobber ment" 3 times. I kept laughing, and asking him if he was the US government, he didn't see anything wrong with the idea that he actually was "the government". Lol!
I was able to keep the conversation going until he wanted to talk to me about... And this is where we ran into trouble, I made him repeat like 3-4 times. I think he might have said fraud.... But it sounded like frog and the other word sounded kind of like blueberry.
So, I guess we couldn't get past that point in his scam effort, which is too bad because I was kind of having fun.
I like to, out of the thin air, suddenly spurt out some stupid off the wall fact like "Do you know that ear wax is actually an insect repellent to keep bugs out?
I told one telemarketer that he was the offspring of his mother and a goat.(my vocabulary was much more colorful).....his reply was "you will not speak to me in that way on the telephone"....he hung up when I reminded him he called me, and I could speak to him however I would like.
We had a rain day yesterday so I did paperwork and some parts running. I got to see the Mach 1, Black Betty and a couple old chebbys at ND's shop yesterday.
The black truck is nothing short of beautiful. The Mach 1 is an unbelievable project in the works. The pics and story ND tells doesn't even begin to explain what this car needs. I am so very happy to know the owner and ND are both on board to bringing this beauty back to life. I really believe a lot of folks would have scrapped it out.
All of that said, the thing that truly amazes me is how he can keep the shop that clean. Nice work and I'll maybe try to swing by later next time & bring beverages.
I made him repeat "ewe ess gobber ment" 3 times. I kept laughing, and asking him if he was the US government, he didn't see anything wrong with the idea that he actually was "the government". Lol!
I was able to keep the conversation going until he wanted to talk to me about... And this is where we ran into trouble, I made him repeat like 3-4 times. I think he might have said fraud.... But it sounded like frog and the other word sounded kind of like blueberry.
So, I guess we couldn't get past that point in his scam effort, which is too bad because I was kind of having fun.
And I guess I didn't do any play by play on the RH shock tower repairs or removal of old rusty inner fender aprons... or the fitting and welding of these new ones.
I also forgot to play by play the repair of the ate up RH side cowl...
But there she is, nice and solid.
Now I'm fitting the old side cowl houses back where they belong.
Like so.
But I have to media blast them first, do a little more cleaning and prep to the areas that these close up and epoxy prime before closing them up.
I think I might blast these outside since it's such a beautiful day.
My mustang crusted junk pile is growing.
That is all stuff I have cut off this car and replaced.
What guage metal do you use for replacement parts like that? Do you hand form them with a bag and hammer, or use a metal brake and weld the pieces together to form the whole? What are you using to weld the sheet metal? Wish I could weld that well on thin material. Great looking work. If I needed a restoration like that done I think you might be on my short list. Now, if I could just find a decent 67 Nova around without having to take out a second mortgage......
Since you likely don't have time to watch tv, you probably don't know about those "reality" car shows where they "build" a car in two weeks and the customer pays them 1000's for the "custom work"
Looking great Dave!
I'm sure you must ocassionally think they sure make it look quick and easy on TV
I used 18 gauge paint grip galvanized for this repair even though the original panel looked closer to 20 gauge.
I used the piece I removed to make a pattern on the new sheet steel. Then it was a combination of bends made on a box and pan brake and some formed over a dolly with a hammer where the part became too complex for the brake.
I keep my small miller mig spooled with .023 wire for these sheet metal butt welds.
I rolled the riser piece and egg'd it by hand to duplicate the original shape. Then I tacked it in place and cut the hole on the inside of the ring with the plasma torch.
Then I did a solid weld along the inside of the riser where it meets the cowl gutter.
It had to be fixed, even if not driven in the rain it would have leaked water into the car every time it was washed.
I'll coat the inside areas of the cowl with epoxy and or a chassis saver coating prior to closing these repaired areas up.
So,..do you have, like 500 egg cartons laying around in the corner with assorted nuts,bolts,pins,clips,etc.? Don't know how in the world you remember where everything goes...
So,..do you have, like 500 egg cartons laying around in the corner with assorted nuts,bolts,pins,clips,etc.? Don't know how in the world you remember where everything goes...
We tag and label everything as we take the cars apart.
But with this one, it only does so much good. The car was taken down pretty g'damn far once before us, and put back together incorrectly, hardware store fasteners, wood screws...
We need to reference the original manuals when reassembling this one.
It will be like putting together a model car with instructions. Only its a real car and the instructions are a 5 volume set of shop manuals.
I been in this man's world too damn long. I've seen 'em come and I've seen 'em go.
But your skills,..and **most**! importantly, your energy and willingness to attack these types of ventures puts you into a fairly elite class. I don't know ya, but I think I've got a reasonable handle on the situation.
This stuff you're doing, Dave,... It has the potential to put you into a lot of situations.
Don't get me wrong. The stuff you do is outstanding,...and I ain't the guy to look for, for advice,...'cause I ain't capable of it.
I'll just say this.
There's people living in big houses on the hill who do what you've learned to, and have the willpower to do.
You seem like a hell of a nice guy.
There's all kinds of avenues for people who do what you're willing and able to do.
Figure out who has the money,...and put it in your pocket.
I've probably belabored this point too much,...but I've had a small business before,...and if I had been able to turn out a product like Dave does, them useless fatcat sumbitches who wanted a pristine toy to play with would have to kiss my ass to even get an appointment.
Most of the people who have the big money in America today are totally useless sumbitches anyway
If I could make the toys that they wanted,...I'd tell 'em to go on back and hook up to the dick until they had enough money accumulated to buy what I was capable of producing.
Bend their asses. It's all they understand. It's why they are where they are.
I'll take a hard run at it, and I'll do my best to keep my sights on the horizon and not just on the weld seams and body lines 18" in front of my face.
Dave has Uber skill, but Dave also gets to work from home, be his own boss, work with his kids, take on what projects He wants to take on, play with Eener, close early and go fishing.
Bristoe is right on this one.If I am working on a 100 year old restored stone house for folks with lots of cash it cost more than the old Grandmom down the street.
Most of the people who have the big money in America today are totally useless sumbitches anyway
This is pretty stupid, even by campfire standards.
No, it's a pretty perspicacious observation, Mister.
The RICHEST players in rare old firearms in this corner of the country turn one's stomach with their unending stories of the hot price they talked some recent Widow down on,....and she selling her husband's collection to pay bills. The same bastids that will ask me to lower my prices if they bring me more work. Mind if I ask how many journeyman trades you've mastered, and PRACTICE in this chithole that passes itself off as an "economy" ?
i would guess that you are doing this car for a paying customer.looks to me like by the time you replace all that metal he coulda bought 3 restored cars.
i would guess that you are doing this car for a paying customer.looks to me like by the time you replace all that metal he coulda bought 3 restored cars.
Kind of depends on what your idea of "restored" is.
I would say he could maybe buy 2 horribly bubba'd up Joe dirt chit boxes (maybe).
Or possibly one correctly restored car built to someone else's taste. Of course then he doesn't know for sure if its all good under the nice paint either. But with this car, he knows what the insides of frame rails, torque boxes, rockers etc look like. Because he's got pictures of all that stuff. He's able to watch the metalwork, check on the car daily if he likes.
He knows exactly what he's got when its done.
Here, click this link.
Maybe he could have bought one or 2 like this that are already done.
" (He)..got it one piece at a time....." "..two on the left, and one on the right.. but when we pulled out the switch, all three of 'em came on......."
I was watching one of those car shows on TV this AM, and there was a Mach 1 Mustang (69) that some guy was selling at an auction. It looked very similar to what Dave's working on. Same color, even.
The guy said he had $200K in the restoration, TWO HUNDRED FREAKING THOUSAND DOLLARS!
The car sold for $47,000 dollars..................
Dave, do you get to keep all the scrap or the car owner for recycling? you need a big metal dumpster there. Looking good though. how about the other projects? havent see no fort in the sky lately!
I was watching one of those car shows on TV this AM, and there was a Mach 1 Mustang (69) that some guy was selling at an auction. It looked very similar to what Dave's working on. Same color, even.
The guy said he had $200K in the restoration, TWO HUNDRED FREAKING THOUSAND DOLLARS!
The car sold for $47,000 dollars..................
Yep! He watched too many auction shows. You don't actually get to drive the cars that sell for several hundred thousand dollars or more.
I was watching one of those car shows on TV this AM, and there was a Mach 1 Mustang (69) that some guy was selling at an auction. It looked very similar to what Dave's working on. Same color, even.
The guy said he had $200K in the restoration, TWO HUNDRED FREAKING THOUSAND DOLLARS!
The car sold for $47,000 dollars..................
Yep! He watched too many auction shows. You don't actually get to drive the cars that sell for several hundred thousand dollars or more.
What I want to know is, how the hell do you get into $200K into a restoration on a car that only cost$3k to begin with? How many cars could you buy for that.
Restorations are a labor of love. Since you can no longer buy a brand new car that was made in the 60's and 70's, you either have to live with them as they are, or if for some reason you really want one that is as close as possible to driving it off the showroom you go for a full on restoration. They are working pieces of history.
I was once many years ago the proud owner of a 1970 Mach I, it had the 428 Cobra jet which included the optional drag pack, it was yellow with black window louvers and spoiler. I sure wish I still had it.
We ran into some thin metal, so we cut forward until we hit some meat. Thank god we finally got past the thin pitted stuff. Puzzle pieces, gotta love it.
Looking at all this work makes me wish I had bought that 69 Mach I I had a chance to buy about 6-7 years ago for $13K. Body was pretty straight and no rust in the body and very little in the frame and floors- certainly could have cleaned them up without replacing. Interior needed work and dash was rough, dash pad faded badly and cracked. All original from what I could tell. Mostly the result of the fact we don't use salt on the roads here. Just wish I had the cash at the moment, but I was tied up with the hot rod I'm just finishing up now so it wasn't in the cards.
Really looking forward to seeing this one finished. These are great cars when they are done right.
Or else we'll "build it" as in "its built", and we'll say things like " three quarter cam" and we'll use words like "balanced and blueprinted"
And we'll say "MSD" a lot and have no idea what it means... Then we'll have an episode where we will randomly blurt out "double pumpers!" And "three angle valve job!"
Then we'll add up the horsepower on a calculator...
"Carry the 4 barrel, multiply by long tube headers, 3/4, cubic inches... I'm getting 725 HP, does that sound right?"
Or else we'll "build it" as in "its built", and we'll say things like " three quarter cam" and we'll use words like "balanced and blueprinted"
And we'll say "MSD" a lot and have no idea what it means... Then we'll have an episode where we will randomly blurt out "double pumpers!" And "three angle valve job!"
Then we'll add up the horsepower on a calculator...
"Carry the 4 barrel, multiply by long tube headers, 3/4, cubic inches... I'm getting 725 HP, does that sound right?"
Lmao!
It will be a healthy and reliable 351W.
dual quads, on a high rise, single plane manifold. because well, I saw it in a magazine once.
dual quads, on a high rise, single plane manifold. because well, I saw it in a magazine once.
I'm not suggesting fantasy stuff that won't run on the street.
More like an Edelbrock Performer RPM dual plane, topped with a 750 cfm vacuum secondary carb. A set of 1 5/8" primary long tube headers. A modest cam, like the second to mildest hydraulic from the Lunati Voodoo or Comp Xtreme Energy lines. A quality ignition upgrade.
Perfectly daily drivable, but a lot more fun on tap than stock.
Mathman, there are multiple cars in play here. 69's and 70's fastbacks. There will be some swapping of incorrect engines in order to right the ship, so to speak.
This one will be receiving a donor engine from an Arizona mustang, I haven't seen it and don't know the specs yet but it sounds healthy. 351w with an auto trans. This car will be going back to its original recipe, clutch peddle is going away (on this one).
The next one will have 3 peddles and we'll cook something up along the lines of a boss 302-ish recipe.
Unless you're starting with a numbers matching original there are better ways to make 302 power than with the giant intake port heads. Particularly for a street driven car.
The maroon car on the trailer is an H code car, auto trans. Super rough but it's all there and its not full of patches that hide the rust. What u see is what you get.
In '84 Ford brought out an edition of the GT350 and only shipped one per dealer.. IIRC, only TWO were ever automatics - one was shipped to Heritage Ford in Stillwater when I was there.. The dumbazz owner dealer-traded it to Tousley when they should have hung onto it and could have made a bundle.
I stayed at that tramp ship for only 6 months before bailing.. Geez, what a pair of bozo owners..
Or else we'll "build it" as in "its built", and we'll say things like " three quarter cam" and we'll use words like "balanced and blueprinted"
And we'll say "MSD" a lot and have no idea what it means... Then we'll have an episode where we will randomly blurt out "double pumpers!" And "three angle valve job!"
I am looking at a very streetable 351 Winsdor based 427 for my car. It can be built to 460 CI (Dart block). Pretty amazing that they dyno at 500 HP at 5500 rpm, run at 500 ft-lbs torque from 2500 - 5000 rpm, have plenty of vacuum and run on 91 octane. Then we'll add up the horsepower on a calculator...
"Carry the 4 barrel, multiply by long tube headers, 3/4, cubic inches... I'm getting 725 HP, does that sound right?"
I decided to fill in the triangle hole in the inner door frame. There is no functional purpose and a little more strength next to the drivers seat should be OK.
I bought some rubber'ish mats from Fleet Farm to kneel on for working on my remodel. I liked them so much I bought some more for the weight bench in the basement. They're great and pretty cheap. $60 for a 6x8' "pad" of them.
Harbor Freight has those interlocking standing pads for the floor pretty cheap. I use them in front of my lathe and work bench and they really save my back and feet. Watch for one of their sales and they are even cheaper.
I like the mats but it would be difficult bacause I'm always on my feet but never in one spot for very long. I think maybe a couple breaks throughout the day would be a good idea and I'm trying some new orthopedic inserts, something pam picked uo yesterday. Just cheap Dr shoes (spelling?).
Beautiful work Dave! wouldn't it have been easier to just buy the metal and cut out and build a new frame and body? Seem's like your doing that already.. Great work!
But I can hardly walk today, I have to do something and it's not going to be a break form work. I have way too much to do.
Originally Posted by fluffy
.Heel pain? Sounds like plantar fascitis to me. I struggled with it for more than a year.
I googled that, sounds exactly right.
it came on with this last pair of boots I purchased. I picked them up locally, a wellington style by wolverine. It was the best I could do brand wise locally without size ordering blind on the internet.
I wanted the wellington style because I wanted easy to kick off if I walk from the shop to the house for lunch.
I think those boots are evil, pure pain delivering evil.
I've never had trouble with my feet before. I've wore everything from Gov issue combat boots to cowboy boots, converse all stars, several pair of danners and other work/hunting boots. Stood on concrete for the last 20+ years and all of the sudden it's a problem at the same time I buy these wolverine boots.
Rubber mats are a god send when spending all day on concrete. Good boots as well.
FWIW- my bro swears by Redwings. I've heard lots of praise for Keens as well. When I wear work boots it's usually Xtra Tufs. Doubt they'd fit your need.
Go to a 'Boot store' and tell them you walk on concrete 'all day - every day'. They have boots, like the ones mentioned above, that are made for this type of stress on the feet.
I worked in a plant, 12 hrs/day, for years and had the same problem. Rubber mats were not an option, but getting the correct boots made a world of difference. Red Wing, Timberland, and Wolverines all made a good ones.
OK, I can't take it any more, this foot pain is just too much.
I have to do something about this, and I dont think its going to be easy. Even if I had the perfect boots right now I think its going to take a while for my feet to get better.
I feel for you, Dave. I used to work long shifts in a printing plant where you didn't get a break until the press went down and then your other duties were attended to.
I'd get bruises on the bottoms of my heels and toes from 12 hour days on concrete. It got so bad that I'd get to work early and raid the first aid kit and wrap tape around each toe individually.
I really hope you can find a solution you can work with that gives you some relief.
I do appreciate the mat suggestions and I do agree they are the best way to go. I was a manufacturing supervisor and I purchased plenty of those mats for various work stations.
The problem is I'm all over in my shop and the mats just wont work for what I do. I use too much roller stuff, stools, creepers, dollies, jacks, body carts, rotisserie etc. All on wheels, plus I weld in most of the shop. My floor for the most part has to remain clean swept concrete to be functional.
I do appreciate the mat suggestions and I do agree they are the best way to go. I was a manufacturing supervisor and I purchased plenty of those mats for various work stations.
The problem is I'm all over in my shop and the mats just wont work for what I do. I use too much roller stuff, stools, creepers, dollies, jacks, body carts, rotisserie etc. All on wheels, plus I weld in most of the shop. My floor for the most part has to remain clean swept concrete to be functional.
I think it's going to have to be a footwear fix.
I was thinking the same thing. More support and more cushion inside and on the bottom sounds like the answer.
Sorry to hear about the foot problems -- you have to get this sorted out or it can get so bad you can't work. That would be a huge shame for all of us living vicariously through your posts!
I buddy of mine had terrible problems caused by standing on concrete and, as in your situation, mats were not an option.
He went through a lot of boots (about 8 brands over half a year) before his physiotherapist recommended this model made by Irish Setter.
The footbeds are removable, so on his physiotherapist's recommendation he took them out and put in a thick pair of gel insoles.
A good pair of gel inserts can make a huge improvement. I sit at a desk all day, but when I'm in the field it's 12 hours on steel plate. Until I swapped out the inserts in my wolverine steel toes my feet would kill me after a couple days.
I've been wearing a pair of Keen steel toe for the last year. Then my left foot started to bother the heck out of me. So I went and bought a pair of Danner's composite toe. Not sure if they just have to be broke in or what but man my feet hurt at the end of the day. (They are not the cushy sole like pictured above however)
As other have said, you need to fix it right or it could end up being a long term problem no matter what boot you get.
Thanks, I'm looking I to that along with an offering from redwing and danner in that exact style of boot.
You've known for years I can't say enough good about Redwing's. The good American made one's.
Mine are the 2408 model, steel toe. I'm not sure if the non-safety toe is that model or now.
Mine are rated for all trades to include electric. You probably don't need that, so may get more of a soft sole. This is the first year in 5 on this set of boots where the sole is showing any wear.
Dave, Sounds like you have plantar facitis (sp?) I had it for about a year and could not hardly walk when I climbed out of bed in the AM. Went a store called "good feet" and got fitted for some orthotics made for this issue and it is like I never had the problem. They are a little pricey but they work and all of the pain is gone. The cheaper route is to go to the Dr. Schols fitting machine in wally world and get some insoles although they are not nearly as good or pricey......YMMV
I had the same problem with my feet about a year ago on a job we were doing with concrete floors. Walking on the concrete all day long in work boots was killing my feet. After a rest (and different shoes) on weekends, I was okay for a day or two then it would start all over again. Started having problems with my toes about then also, so trimmed my toenails quite a bit and it helped, but not all of the time. So, I went up 1/2 size in my boots and got some Danner GTX and the problem went away within a couple days. Here I had been wearing size 10D Danners for 40 years and suddenly I now need 10 1/2 EE. Haven't had a problem since.
I know it sounds pretty stupid, but I never even thought to check how my feet were cramped in my boots. Just a creature of habit, I guess.
I hope the Redwings work out for you. I've worked for several outfits that had accounts with Redwing and we got a discount on our boots so I would buy them to save a few bucks. They never worked for me. Either stretched out or fell apart within a few weeks and never fit my feet right after that. Over the years I've tried at least 6 pairs of Red Wings, but not one of them every felt right on my feet or lasted more than a few weeks. I have to admit I'm pretty tough on boots but my Danners work great and I get the type with the shock absorbing sole and my feet usually feet great, hunting or standing/working on concrete floors all day.
Hope you find a solution. It really sucks having pain in your feet when you work on them all day long.
Tzone, I remember the good things you say about redwing. I am looking at risk swing 10875 and also danner "bull run moc toe" both with the soft white sole.
The redwings are more money. And I've had good luck with US made danners. Both of the boots I mentioned are US boots.
I will say this about the redwings. They have to be broken in and it takes a few days of wear to do so. And the non-USA ones are crap. I know Dave won't buy the chi-com boots.
I've never tried canner because I've never needed to but if I needed to switch brands, I'd look there first.
I find myself walking on the balls of my feet and way up on my toes, with my calf muscles carrying my weight, because my heels hurt so damn bad. But when I'm working on something I slowly roll my feet down, not realizing it until I'm on my heels again. What a dumb problem to have, I even catch myself standing on the outside edges of my feet with my ankle rolled out, anything to keep off the heels.
I'm afraid its to the point where the best boots in the world won't fix this overnight.
Sitting here on the couch with my feet all wadded up with crappy silver duct tape. An improvised version of fluffy's foot taping advise for this plantar footyitus, or what ever.
Reminds me of a pair of snow treker mountain slippers I made once with duct tape and wool socks. (On an elk hunting trip)
Fit and welded outer wheel houses over the weekend.
Dave, your welds are thing of beauty. Good luck with the feet. Another tip is to stretch tem periodically by elevating the toes and relaxing as your heels drop below toe level. Or lean against a bench in push-up position and lower toward the bench, keeping your heels on the floor. When you get to the point of really-sore-but-not-swearing, hold that position for 20-30 seconds. Do that 5-6 times a day to stretch your tendons and calf muscles. Helped me several years ago.
Thanks guys, it's tough on that beer can thin metal. I like to think they were 20 gauge but The steel is drawn a bit thin since they are formed pieces, seemed more like 24 gauge.
This thing was supposed to be the best one a shop could order. I have it together and mounted on the mustang with their mustang adapters. I believe this does have to be the best you can get. It is outstanding!
Very good design, great welds, fit, function, its awesome.
This piece of equipment is going to make our work so much easier, I'm very happy I purchased it.
A dozen or so helium balloons in a big backpack would be quicker than stringing all those wires. Just make sure you tie it down when you take it off for lunch.
Constantly amazed at ND's work. That Mustang was the biggest POS I have ever seen before Dave rescued it. Still can't believe a car could have that much rust and hold together!
Hey guys, I got a pair of redwing boots for my birthday. Ended up with the US made 6" moc toe with the creep sole. Slipped in a pair of Dr scholes plantar fascia half insoles... Heavenly.
The car show in Fargo was pretty cool. Doing another small show tomorrow then heading home.
Can't wait to take a run at 40 billable hours next week on the new shoes and with the new auto rotisserie. (This pretty much means 80 hrs on my feet, lol)
Dave, take a look at some of the matts they make to put under treadmills. They are thin, but somewhat spongy. They're pretty light and can be moved around easily. You can hose them off if you want to clean them. There are different materials so look for the spongy, pliable, non-slippery ones.
Constantly amazed at ND's work. That Mustang was the biggest POS I have ever seen before Dave rescued it. Still can't believe a car could have that much rust and hold together!
Dave, have had the heel pain torture and knee also for many years in the body shop. About 5 years ago saw a new doctor and he told me to take vitamin D 4000IU daily. I`m 55 now, For me it has worked wonderfully, heel torture has been minimal to non existant for 4 or 5 years now and knees don`t bother me at all. Worth a try for a few months, can`t hurt.
We have a 67 Malibu on the rotisserie and a 69 firebird convertible being torn down for restoration.
Constantly amazed at ND's work. That Mustang was the biggest POS I have ever seen before Dave rescued it. Still can't believe a car could have that much rust and hold together!
So you've never been to Minnesota then?
If that is what it does to your cars, you, sir, have my utmost respect!!!
My boy is taking his truck to a car show in Warroad Mn today though, we will probably head that way later this morning, check out the cars/trucks/bikes.
Sorry guys I haven't updated for a while. I forgot where we were last but now we have the entire belly healed up. Trunk floors, the cabin floors all the way. Lots of little patches and fixes that get lost in the details.
Yes, I should have fit them this afternoon or at least started, but I did a couple sessions of primer on the Camaro this morning and into the afternoon. Cleaned spray guns, cleaned shop and figured it can wait till Monday.
I got to see it in person on Monday while in ND's area.
Amazing to see all of the work and new metal that has went into that car.
Almost anyone with a few tools can make a car look good driving down the street but the projects you work on turn old classics into basically new cars again.
These restos will last many years and not have cracked paint and bondo falling off after a few years.
Well, the boy and I jammed hard on the stang this morning and got some good outside work done ahead of another little thunderstorm (enough with the rain already!)
All the new metal is in the main body. she got another final cleanup blast this morning then got soaked down with about 1.5 gallons of 2K epoxy primer.
We are rebuilding all of the suspension, steering, brakes, bearings, seals etc.
Leaf spring packs rebuilt with new glide tabs, new leaf eye bushings. All new stainless brake lines going on, just new, new, new.
The new cast iron pieces such as calipers, wheel cylinders, master cylinder, brake drums, brake rotors, all getting cleaned, etch primed and painted with cast/blast paint to preserve the new cast iron look without rusting.
Upper and lower control arms, ball joints, bushings, strut rods, strut rod bushings, shocks, sway bar link bushings... Tie rods and sleeves..
Putting drum brakes back on? I'm surprised you're not upgrading to discs all around. With all the other new and replacement parts, it isn't exactly original any more...
Great looking work. Looking forward to seeing it with paint on the outside.
Also Dave, I sure hope you are not pricing your work too low! Don't be afraid to charge what you are worth -- it can even result in more, not fewer customers.
I was doing computer consulting (mostly to small businesses), and gradually I got too busy to handle all the customers.
I raised my prices a LOT, thinking that this would result in some of the businesses going elsewhere. In fact, the response was more like "Oooh, he must be good to charge so much" and demand actually increased.
We all have seen how good your work is -- make sure you price it accordingly!
(Also, set an alarm clock to make yourself take a break and rest your feet for at least a few minutes every hour -- getting rid of foot problems like yours is harder than nipping the problem in the bud, bud!)
Dave, I have bad plantar fasciitis, too. Actually had mine completely rupture several years ago. Those thick rubber mats work. So do the inserts in your shoes. I get cortisone shots as often as possible in my heel and that helps, too. Stretching before you put your socks and shoes on in the a.m. helps. So does leaning against back wall in shower and stretching ligaments fully. I also wear Birkenstock sandals at night with socks around the house. (Yeah, I know. Hippie. Why don't I paint some flowers on them.).
PS- forgot to mention this one. If you have a BassPro near you, they have RedHead brand socks for work/hunting that have thick padded soles. They also help.
I'm interested in that tape procedure you mentioned. Does it work?
Nothing better than a clean and shiny underbelly! Unless it is more new stuff bolted onto said underbelly! Amazing Dave! That is a miracle to behold in Rusty Minnesota, the land of 10,000 lakes, and summer and winter cars!!!
JPB is right - make sure you take care of you - the most sacred of all resources!
I'll try to post some update pics soon. I have a couple of cars that are a little further along than the mustang, I will get them on down the road pretty soon, then I can pull in the second Mach 1 for initial tear down while this (current one) begins body, paint and reassembly.
Last 69 Mustang Mach 1 build post was on 9/13/15 by NorthernDave and it was lacking in pictures. What is the status of said Mustang? Is it finished or is still in the shop Dave?
out behind the shop we have a 1973 351W and FMX trans broke down for delivery to respective rebuild shops.
It was important to us to find a 351 in the period from 69-74 so we would have the right block and cylinder heads (mostly the heads) 60.4cc chambers. We can easily utilize key components of the correct M code 69 engine by pitching the dish pistons and running flat tops with valve reliefs. I believe for cam we will likely select someone's combo of cam, lifters, timing gear set and springs. Likely an edelbrock offering that targets a range from idle and up. We'll top it with a new 4 barrel with elect choke and a dual plane alum intake, likely headers too. The FMX trans is what this Mach 1 came with originally so we feel good about rebuilding this one and sticking it back in there.
It was important to us to find a 351 in the period from 69-74 so we would have the right block and cylinder heads (mostly the heads) 60.4cc chambers. We can easily utilize key components of the correct M code 69 engine by pitching the dish pistons and running flat tops with valve reliefs. I believe for cam we will likely select someone's combo of cam, lifters, timing gear set and springs. Likely an edelbrock offering that targets a range from idle and up. We'll top it with a new 4 barrel with elect choke and a dual plane alum intake, likely headers too. The FMX trans is what this Mach 1 came with originally so we feel good about rebuilding this one and sticking it back in there.
Those have relatively "lazy" lobes and can be beat without too much trouble. There is more power/torque to be had without sacrificing smooth driving qualities.
It was important to us to find a 351 in the period from 69-74 so we would have the right block and cylinder heads (mostly the heads) 60.4cc chambers. We can easily utilize key components of the correct M code 69 engine by pitching the dish pistons and running flat tops with valve reliefs. I believe for cam we will likely select someone's combo of cam, lifters, timing gear set and springs. Likely an edelbrock offering that targets a range from idle and up. We'll top it with a new 4 barrel with elect choke and a dual plane alum intake, likely headers too. The FMX trans is what this Mach 1 came with originally so we feel good about rebuilding this one and sticking it back in there.
Dave,
I too was going to rebuild the FMX for my 69 351W. I'm having issues finding guys that actually do it for a few reasons. 1) The parts are very hard to come by they're telling me. 2) They're dinosaurs. The c4/c6 seems to be an easier to rebuild trans, they're lighter, and can withstand some abuse.
If your guy is going to rebuild that for you, maybe I should get his info from you and give him a shout.
Those have relatively "lazy" lobes and can be beat without too much trouble. There is more power/torque to be had without sacrificing smooth driving qualities.
But remember, it is a ladies car. And I don't care who's feelings I may have hurt with that statement.
I'll say it again, just in case someone with tender feelers didn't pick up on it. It's a lady's car.
And by that I mean exactly what any liberal rainbow flag waving feelings cop hopes I mean, exactly.
A lady, an actual child bearing female human, born a female, always been a female, an actual female, not a man that identifies as a female, an actual female that can have children. She has children too, and a husband that is an actual man that identifies as such.
It will be a special events and weekend fun car for them, family outing sort of use.
We want the car beautiful, we want it dependable, we want it safe.
We're going to hit the 300hp mark easily with the mild recipe we have in mind, which is enough to make this car fun.
But I'll gladly listen to suggestions for this "strong enough for a man but made for a woman" Mach 1 mustang.
I too was going to rebuild the FMX for my 69 351W. I'm having issues finding guys that actually do it for a few reasons. 1) The parts are very hard to come by they're telling me. 2) They're dinosaurs. The c4/c6 seems to be an easier to rebuild trans, they're lighter, and can withstand some abuse.
If your guy is going to rebuild that for you, maybe I should get his info from you and give him a shout.
In a street rod or resto mod build I'd maybe not choose the FMX, I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to have one, put it that way. But it's right for this car so we might as well. No prob with the rebuild parts.
If he can rebuild an early air cooled torqueflite (1958), he can damn sure do an FMX.
It's common for everybody to say C6, but the transmission guys tell me the C4 can be built to handle HP that the C6 used to be chosen for.
plus it's still a cast cam so we won't have dist gear challenges. Should be able to run a regular ole factory spark slinger. We'll probably toss the points and condenser in the woods though, put a pertronix ring & pickup in there.
It's common for everybody to say C6, but the transmission guys tell me the C4 can be built to handle HP that the C6 used to be chosen for.
Correct. The C6 is a bullet-proof tranny but also a power-robbing SOB. I'd only use a C6 again in a 70ish driver or tow rig. ANYTHING performance would get a built C4 or better if needed. I've never actually wrecked a C6 (says a lot) but I can testify that they'll turn a strong engine into a turd in stock form.
I dropped the engine and trans off for rebuild. 351W and an FMX, both 1973.
I've instructed the builder to target a static 10:1 with his piston selection, heads are 60.4cc comb chambers. He's looking for direction on the cam, I've been looking at comp cams XE262H.
That's probably as wild as I care to go, We will be running a dual plane alum intake and prob 600-650 vac secondary 4 barrel, headers too, probably something mid length.
I like the lunati voodoo cams but I cover so many bases, being the body man, mechanic, painter etc. I want to buy a complete set including valve springs and I don't know that lunati offers it.
I'd like to run stock converter, this is a power assist brake car, weight is around 3000lbs, gears I believe are 3.23 (or possibly 3.5). 10:1 compression.
The stock cam for 1969 351M in Mach1 would have been ford #C9OZ-6250-A
Wish I'd known you were looking for a period correct Windsor, I've got the original 351 out of my 69 mach 1 that we took out back in '87. Just needs a rebuild and its got the original FMX with it.
Wish I'd known you were looking for a period correct Windsor, I've got the original 351 out of my 69 mach 1 that we took out back in '87. Just needs a rebuild and its got the original FMX with it.
My wife and I will be buying/inheriting her uncle's 1967 Ford Galaxy 500 2-dr hardtop 390-4bbl.
We're kinda wondering what we should do with it.
Here's the low-down:
He purchased it new when he got back from Vietnam. It's got 65,000 original miles. He's a bit of an odd duck and he never removed the plastic off the seats and never took the rubber bands off the seat belts in the back seat. It's never been in an accident and he drives it a few weekends every year. It's all original and sits in a little garage. Original paint, original everything.
We're purchasing it from his "estate" before medicare forces a sale and we're having some difficulty on valuation. It's not a restored car, just an all-original decently maintained classic. All the valuation I can find are based upon how it rates as a "show car".
I'm thinking to just buff out the paint, shine up the chrome, clean up the engine and interior and keep her as an original -- thoughts?
Dooood! I love me a big long galaxie! The problem with them is they're really not worth much unless you have a 427 or something. That's a cream puff you have there it looks like.
Yeah, I'd do the same. A major cleaning/detailing. I'd run OEM hub caps, thin white walls, I'd invest in a new set of those fingerhut type clear plastic seat covers too.
I'd replace what ever seals and gaskets that have shrunk or cracked. Drain fluids from the back to the front, refresh with new. Including the brakes which may or may not need some attention. These old wheel cylinder drum brakes like a little action now and then to keep things working well.
You may just want to get 4 chunks of 1/4" hose about 15" long and 4 empty containers, ice cream buckets, empty coffee cans, what ever. Take the lid off the master, top it off then crack the bleeders. slip the hoses over the bleeders and let them drain into the containers. just keep adding to the master reservoir so it doesn't go empty.
Get rid of that old brown fluid.
Try to run premium fuel in it, avoid ethanol as much as you can.
Be careful buffing the paint. If you bring it to a detailer or a body shop, ask if they are going to take film thickness measurements before they start buffing/polishing. Even if they lie to you or shake their head yes without even knowing what a film thickness gauge is.... It at least clues them in as to how particular you are.
67 fast back is a nice body style. A subtle departure from 66 with a slicker roof line, some muscle bulge to the quarters and it's still got stacked headlights. (which is good)
They can look very nice with a sporty set of wheels and tires too, but there is always time for that in the future.
I'd hold hard to that preservation line if I were you.
Price wise, I can't disagree with Tom. Give or take based on details and condition.
Something you might find interesting is that 67 was a big step forward in safety advancements. Collapsible steering columns, better belts, that big goofy padded center in the steering wheel... neat stuff.
Yeah, I'd do the same. A major cleaning/detailing. I'd run OEM hub caps, thin white walls, I'd invest in a new set of those fingerhut type clear plastic seat covers too.
I'd replace what ever seals and gaskets that have shrunk or cracked. Drain fluids from the back to the front, refresh with new. Including the brakes which may or may not need some attention. These old wheel cylinder drum brakes like a little action now and then to keep things working well.
You may just want to get 4 chunks of 1/4" hose about 15" long and 4 empty containers, ice cream buckets, empty coffee cans, what ever. Take the lid off the master, top it off then crack the bleeders. slip the hoses over the bleeders and let them drain into the containers. just keep adding to the master reservoir so it doesn't go empty.
Get rid of that old brown fluid.
Try to run premium fuel in it, avoid ethanol as much as you can.
Be careful buffing the paint. If you bring it to a detailer or a body shop, ask if they are going to take film thickness measurements before they start buffing/polishing. Even if they lie to you or shake their head yes without even knowing what a film thickness gauge is.... It at least clues them in as to how particular you are.
67 fast back is a nice body style. A subtle departure from 66 with a slicker roof line, some muscle bulge to the quarters and it's still got stacked headlights. (which is good)
They can look very nice with a sporty set of wheels and tires too, but there is always time for that in the future.
I'd hold hard to that preservation line if I were you.
Price wise, I can't disagree with Tom. Give or take based on details and condition.
Something you might find interesting is that 67 was a big step forward in safety advancements. Collapsible steering columns, better belts, that big goofy padded center in the steering wheel... neat stuff.
Sleepers are the way to go. I am a Ford man from way back and have always built sleepers. The last one I built was a 64 2 door fairlane with a Windsor and a set of Ford GT heads from Ford Factory performance themselves. I went mild on the Cam Grind just as this gentleman is looking at and I'll tell you what...this thing was FAST!
Little known secret to share...contact Ford and ask about what they have stashed away in the way of Factory Designed Performance Parts for the Engine you are putting together. You may be very very surprised!
If you want to get top dollar for that car do not touch it other than a simple wash job. Advertise it well and let NO ONE drive it. It will surprise you.
If the engine hasn't run in a good while I'd pull it and do a complete disassembly and thorough cleaning. All new gaskets, seals, yadda yadda.
Same with the carb.
I'd be tempted to replace the valve springs too.
Pay attention! It gets driven annually! lol
Now solve my cam shaft dilemma.
Seriously Dave...Make a call to Ford and see what they have sitting as overstock in their inventory of "Factory Performance" parts from years back. They are probably holding onto some treasures. Maybe even a Factory Roller Cam, Roller Lifter and Roller Rocker/Spring set up for your Windsor.
They have warehouses full of this stuff from way back when in the 60's 70's and would love to make a deal to get rid of some of it.
I dropped the engine and trans off for rebuild. 351W and an FMX, both 1973.
I've instructed the builder to target a static 10:1 with his piston selection, heads are 60.4cc comb chambers. He's looking for direction on the cam, I've been looking at comp cams XE262H.
That's probably as wild as I care to go, We will be running a dual plane alum intake and prob 600-650 vac secondary 4 barrel, headers too, probably something mid length.
I like the lunati voodoo cams but I cover so many bases, being the body man, mechanic, painter etc. I want to buy a complete set including valve springs and I don't know that lunati offers it.
I'd like to run stock converter, this is a power assist brake car, weight is around 3000lbs, gears I believe are 3.23 (or possibly 3.5). 10:1 compression.
The stock cam for 1969 351M in Mach1 would have been ford #C9OZ-6250-A
Lunati sells kits I'm pretty sure.
The Comp cam you linked is actually one size bigger than I'd be inclined to go. How about this:
In my estimation you're over cooking it with the 10:1 compression idea, particularly with iron heads. The kind of cam that will be compatible with modest gears, a stock converter, and nice driving characteristics will produce a lot of cylinder pressure and even pump premium is going to have trouble.
I dropped the engine and trans off for rebuild. 351W and an FMX, both 1973.
I've instructed the builder to target a static 10:1 with his piston selection, heads are 60.4cc comb chambers. He's looking for direction on the cam, I've been looking at comp cams XE262H.
That's probably as wild as I care to go, We will be running a dual plane alum intake and prob 600-650 vac secondary 4 barrel, headers too, probably something mid length.
I like the lunati voodoo cams but I cover so many bases, being the body man, mechanic, painter etc. I want to buy a complete set including valve springs and I don't know that lunati offers it.
I'd like to run stock converter, this is a power assist brake car, weight is around 3000lbs, gears I believe are 3.23 (or possibly 3.5). 10:1 compression.
The stock cam for 1969 351M in Mach1 would have been ford #C9OZ-6250-A
Lunati sells kits I'm pretty sure.
The Comp cam you linked is actually one size bigger than I'd be inclined to go. How about this:
In my estimation you're over cooking it with the 10:1 compression idea, particularly with iron heads. The kind of cam that will be compatible with modest gears, a stock converter, and nice driving characteristics will produce a lot of cylinder pressure and even pump premium is going to have trouble.
Well lets talk about that compression then. That's a static ratio that I've pulled out of the air based of the original. But, things were different back then, things like fuel for one.
Should I look for pistons with a little more relief volume? Maybe get down in the 9.5 range?
I mean seriously, I'd like to hit 300 hp with a fairly smooth idle, good vacuum, stock converter etc. And I'd liek to do so with all things considered, such as today's fuel and modern cam grinds.
Well lets talk about that compression then. That's a static ratio that I've pulled out of the air based of the original. But, things were different back then, things like fuel for one.
Should I look for pistons with a little more relief volume? Maybe get down in the 9.5 range?
I mean seriously, I'd like to hit 300 hp with a fairly smooth idle, good vacuum, stock converter etc. And I'd liek to do so with all things considered, such as today's fuel and modern cam grinds.
Your goal is quite reasonable. I might even go closer to 9:1 compression.
Are the heads getting any work beyond new guides and a stock type valve job?
That has to be a closed combustion chamber design give the small cc volume you listed. Make sure the engine man sets things up so the quench area is set up with piston deck to head clearance toward the tight side. Safe clearance mind you, but tight. That's one way of getting the most out of lower compression set ups.
Another is ignition timing. I don't have that much Ford experience, but pump gas friendly compression Chevys like a bit more than stock initial advance, and with the rest of the curve coming in relatively quick. But in doing this you have to make sure the curve doesn't put in too much total advance at the top.
Are the heads getting any work beyond new guides and a stock type valve job?
We don't know if we have hard seats (73), hardened seats are a possibility if they aren't there already. Talked about screw in rocker studs, but that's about it above a general once over. Nothing exciting like porting.
If the engine hasn't run in a good while I'd pull it and do a complete disassembly and thorough cleaning. All new gaskets, seals, yadda yadda.
Same with the carb.
I'd be tempted to replace the valve springs too.
He drives it once a month or so. Sometimes takes it out to go to the VFW, but not as often in the winter.
It will not be sold. This is staying in the family. I just want to make sure we're giving him a fair amount so that the feds don't come back looking for more money after he passes.
He's an interesting guy. Has only been away from home 3 times. He was drafted to go to Vietnam. Is very non-verbal (we think Asbergers, but he's nearly 75, so no one even knew what that was decades ago). I can only imagine his time in the army was a little like Forrest Gump. He'd do what you tell him and I can imagine his platoon buddies keeping an eye on him. The other two times he went to the Black Hills with my Father in Law and their folks. Outside of that, he's never been outside the county. He worked on the family farm his entire life until they sold it and retired, then he worked as farm labor another 10 years or so until his body broke down.
That car is funny. Never took the plastic off the seats, never took the plastic off the seat belts. I'm pretty sure no one has ever sat in the back seat and I think only his mother sat in the front the odd times he would drive it to the store with her.
He's gonna be one of those guys that has $100,000 stuffed in coffee cans or mattress, or maybe he only has a few quarters to rub together. Nobody will know until after he passes.
And yes it's a closed chamber. We should be able to squish things pretty good even if we drop to a 9:1 if our relief volume is cut into the "open" side of the piston head.
Call ford? I'm thinking they might have more than one phone number.
What if a roller set could be had for not much more than what you are planning to pay now? I no longer build a strong motor without a Roller Valve Train. The difference is incredible, A Friction Valve Train can rob up to 20% or more of your potential output from an Engine.
If you are willing to check it out I will try to find you the connection to these parts as a fellow Ford Fan.
I was weaned on building swap out Exchange Motors for "Weekend Bracket Racers" and currently do personal custom dynamics work for the same as my principle occupation.
And yes it's a closed chamber. We should be able to squish things pretty good even if we drop to a 9:1 if our relief volume is cut into the "open" side of the piston head.
I dropped the engine and trans off for rebuild. 351W and an FMX, both 1973.
I've instructed the builder to target a static 10:1 with his piston selection, heads are 60.4cc comb chambers. He's looking for direction on the cam, I've been looking at comp cams XE262H.
That's probably as wild as I care to go, We will be running a dual plane alum intake and prob 600-650 vac secondary 4 barrel, headers too, probably something mid length.
I like the lunati voodoo cams but I cover so many bases, being the body man, mechanic, painter etc. I want to buy a complete set including valve springs and I don't know that lunati offers it.
I'd like to run stock converter, this is a power assist brake car, weight is around 3000lbs, gears I believe are 3.23 (or possibly 3.5). 10:1 compression.
The stock cam for 1969 351M in Mach1 would have been ford #C9OZ-6250-A
Lunati sells kits I'm pretty sure.
The Comp cam you linked is actually one size bigger than I'd be inclined to go. How about this:
In my estimation you're over cooking it with the 10:1 compression idea, particularly with iron heads. The kind of cam that will be compatible with modest gears, a stock converter, and nice driving characteristics will produce a lot of cylinder pressure and even pump premium is going to have trouble.
Well lets talk about that compression then. That's a static ratio that I've pulled out of the air based of the original. But, things were different back then, things like fuel for one.
Should I look for pistons with a little more relief volume? Maybe get down in the 9.5 range?
I mean seriously, I'd like to hit 300 hp with a fairly smooth idle, good vacuum, stock converter etc. And I'd liek to do so with all things considered, such as today's fuel and modern cam grinds.
10 to 1 and add a half gallon of Diesel per tank full of what they sell now as Gasoline.
For straight top end power the huge port Cleveland 4 bbl. heads work pretty well. But for the majority of the time they're not what you want for a milder engine combination in a street driven car.
When the engine isn't going full bore all those big ports are doing is dampening signal to the carb, reducing part throttle driveability. Also, a modest cam that's appropriate for a project such as Dave has outlined won't be making power in the rpm band where the huge port heads would provide an advantage feeding only 351 cubic inches.
I thought the Cleveland was a better engine. I'm no Ford guy!
Depends on what you want it for. From what I understand the Cleaveland makes a lot of torque. It has big heads, and can be built into quite a nice pulling motor or a heckova strip motor. With today's technology though, it's kind of disappearing from use except for old school guys.
I dropped the engine and trans off for rebuild. 351W and an FMX, both 1973.
I've instructed the builder to target a static 10:1 with his piston selection, heads are 60.4cc comb chambers. He's looking for direction on the cam, I've been looking at comp cams XE262H.
That's probably as wild as I care to go, We will be running a dual plane alum intake and prob 600-650 vac secondary 4 barrel, headers too, probably something mid length.
I like the lunati voodoo cams but I cover so many bases, being the body man, mechanic, painter etc. I want to buy a complete set including valve springs and I don't know that lunati offers it.
I'd like to run stock converter, this is a power assist brake car, weight is around 3000lbs, gears I believe are 3.23 (or possibly 3.5). 10:1 compression.
The stock cam for 1969 351M in Mach1 would have been ford #C9OZ-6250-A
I believe that cam is ideal for what you are after. Throw a QF 600 CFM HR carb on an Edelbrock Performer intake and all should be good.
I thought the Cleveland was a better engine. I'm no Ford guy!
Note sure if it is better for a mild street driven car given the large port heads. They can be made to scream for sure. That said, my tweaked Cleveland pulls quite well.
I thought the Cleveland was a better engine. I'm no Ford guy!
Note sure if it is better for a mild street driven car given the large port heads. They can be made to scream for sure. That said, my tweaked Cleveland pulls quite well.
Pistons are sealed power hypereutectic with 12cc relief volume but there is a decent flat pad on the face to interface with the closed side of the chamber. Ratio calculates to 9.5:1 with the compressed gasket thickness. Quench distance will be about .060.
Bore is +.030, crank cut 10 & 10.
Cam, lifters, springs, timing set is all by Lunati. (Voodoo 256)
Intake is edelbrock performer dual plane square bore. (Hood clearance issues with anything taller)
Carb is Holley street avenger 670 CFM square bore, vac sec, elect choke.
Headers are Doug's tri y mid length, ceramic coated. Tubes are 1-3/4 to 2, to 3" at collectors.
The rest is gaskets and fittings, yada, yada.
Heads are getting hardened seats and screw in rocker studs.
Pistons are sealed power hypereutectic with 12cc relief volume but there is a decent flat pad on the face to interface with the closed side of the chamber. Ratio calculates to 9.5:1 with the compressed gasket thickness. Quench distance will be about .060.
Bore is +.030, crank cut 10 & 10.
Cam, lifters, springs, timing set is all by Lunati. (Voodoo 256)
Intake is edelbrock performer dual plane square bore. (Hood clearance issues with anything taller)
Carb is Holley street avenger 670 CFM square bore, vac sec, elect choke.
Headers are Doug's tri y mid length, ceramic coated. Tubes are 1-3/4 to 2, to 3" at collectors.
The rest is gaskets and fittings, yada, yada.
Heads are getting hardened seats and screw in rocker studs.
I keep forgetting to update this thread. We've been priming, hammering, glazing, blocking... Pretty much got everything through initial body work, epoxy prime, spray poly, blocked to 220, reprimed with 2K.
I do have fender/quarter extensions to do some body work, repairs and priming on, as well as the front and rear valance. But the bulk of the body work is behind us for that shameless laser straight body we are shooting for. Next steps for the body and these other main body panels is hand blocking with 500 grit. If that all shows straight like it should, then we will be going to the color package next. This one will get a tri coat system, it's a platinum pearl white.
Meanwhile, here's some engine junk and the fresh FMX trans.
I'm having fun now, this soft metal rust hole nightmare of a car has had a long journey. I'm just beside myself that this one "should we junk it?" Car is approaching elegance. It's very cool, for me.
Very nice Dave. Love the color too. are you adding any more color? Maybe some metallic Blue stripes to it? its the same color as my golf cart. cant wait to see it.
It will get the blacked out hood treatment, that will be a satin black. It also has a front valance spoiler and rear wing which will both get satin black as well. Otherwise... I think that's about it.
Your doing this all wrong ya know. Way to long between updates. You must not have seen all of them shows where they fix a car like that in a week and give a big reveal! You are killing us here.
All kidding aside awesome work and craftsmanship on a car 99% would have said was destined for the scrap yard. Thanks for taking us along on the journey it has been a funny and informative ride speaking for myself.
I do know where any vehicle I wanted restored would be going if I had the need.
A coat of white color sealer primer, two coats of white base coat, and in this case it was two coats of the mid coat which was the pearl coat. It lays over the white, changes the appearance of the white. The tricky part is getting is consistent for color match painting a car all blown apart like this. plus you are adding film build with each coat working towards and including your clear, so it gets harder for it all to lay slick for reduced OP sanding and buffing of the clear.
The engine mounting sucked because there are 12 different bolts involved and I had to leave them all loose so I could shift and adjust multiple brackets to get the final 2 bolts in. Then I could tighten it all up.
I gotta get this one out and get onto the next asap. this one could have gremlins right at the end as it was incomplete when it came to us. It's more complete right now that we've ever seen it!
Usually to get rid of drone, you replace the flowmasters with magnaflow.
These are super 44's by the way, I am very nervous about droning. I hope it's not an issue. I wanted a magnaflow exhaust for this one but what I found available was this flowmaster kit.
Usually to get rid of drone, you replace the flowmasters with magnaflow.
These are super 44's by the way, I am very nervous about droning. I hope it's not an issue. I wanted a magnaflow exhaust for this one but what I found available was this flowmaster kit.
to 99, it's a crossover tube.
Hoping that will tame the drone.
Precisely what I did. Sounds great and zero drone.
Usually to get rid of drone, you replace the flowmasters with magnaflow.
These are super 44's by the way, I am very nervous about droning. I hope it's not an issue. I wanted a magnaflow exhaust for this one but what I found available was this flowmaster kit.
to 99, it's a crossover tube.
Hoping that will tame the drone.
Thank gawd you are putting a crossover tube in it. It should help the torque a little, but it gets rid of that Cox airplane sound effect that sound horrible to me.
We use Magnaflow exclusively, unless the customer wants flowmaster, Borla etc.
When I say exclusively, what I mean is, that's what we stock & recommend.
Noise = Fun = keeps Paul's technicians busy = happy wife = happy life !
Well I'd rather have none! lol. Glass pack or header dumps.
The popo doesn't agree!
Hey Tom, magnaflow make a really good quality 4" round SS muffler.
Way better than any cherry bomb.
Available in 2", 2.5" & 3" x either 14" or 18". Betcha we've installed a coupla hundred of these & we do get the odd visit from Mr Plod, enquiring about our "illegal" exhaust installations !
I would post more often if the campfire was more mobile friendly and if Photobucket wasn't such a nightmare.
Posting photos to the campfire on the fly from a mobile device has become extremely difficult. And I don't get too many chances to sit down at my office desk, unless I'm researching, searching or ordering parts and supplies for these cars.
I'll see if I can post something on the mustang from my shop office tomorrow morning.
The Mach1 has been coasting all winter, I go where the pay is guys. Right now the pay is with the 58 plymouth and the 69 ranchero. Lots of structural rebuilding on the ranchero this week. Forward rocker ends, torque boxes and rear portions of front frame rails, rotted, badly. We just finished the drivers side, we hope to have the passenger side finished up by the end of the week. Lots of fabrication and welding, kind of fun.
The Mach1 has been coasting all winter, I go where the pay is guys. Right now the pay is with the 58 plymouth and the 69 ranchero. Lots of structural rebuilding on the ranchero this week. Forward rocker ends, torque boxes and rear portions of front frame rails, rotted, badly. We just finished the drivers side, we hope to have the passenger side finished up by the end of the week. Lots of fabrication and welding, kind of fun.
Dave,
How dare you prioritize earning a living and supporting your family over a bunch of guys on the internt living out their automotive dreams vicariously through your posts!
(The green font is the one for both sarcasm and tongue-in-cheek posts, right?)
Seriously, post when you can Dave -- we will be waiting.
Well, lets see what's holding the front frame rails on the car...
front torque boxes and connecting structure both ways was in bad shape. I ordered torque boxes from sherman which came pre welded. I had to split them apart to install. We also had to rebuild at the rocker and the rear of the front frame rail.
The inners originally had a large access hole for the factory spot weld and assembly tooling, much like the interface of the inner rocker to torque box. I eliminated that for strength purposes. Here I'm fitting a backer plate for my final inner frame plate to attach to along with the butt weld.
There we go, nice and solid.
Next is rebuilding the dogleg support for the trans X-member.
The dogleg brace for the trans X-member had rotted off. We salvaged the rear plate that the X-member attaches to, we located the piece, suspended from the bottom of the car with temporary tacks, rods etc, then built a new brace arm.
We're currently about 1/3 of the way through with the same tasks on the other side of the car.
That Ranchero must have lots of Sentimental value for somebody...
Husband and wife brought it to me, super nice people. It was the wife's father's car. He ordered it new, she drove it in high school.
As you can see, a paint job wasn't going to make this car OK to drive. It simply wasn't safe, it will be though. I guarantee this forward structure is stronger now than it was from the factory. As I'm building my way out of these structural boxes, I'm closing access holes that were necessary for factory tooling access for resistance welds. Nothing is obviously beefed up when it's all closed up, its fairly discrete, subtle improvements that are worth doing when I've got it cut apart.
Teen spirit pretty good background music for starting up that new beast
To hell with a car restoration Dave can you weld me up some and make me better than new?
On a serious note, I know it takes time & additional labor, but including pix or videos of the work done for your clients with their cars would be a nice value added touch imo
I think that's the one, the second from mildest in the Voodoo range of flat tappet hydraulic cams. The mild idle belies the power it'll have. That's the good you get out of a modern lobe design. An older cam with the same peak output wouldn't be as civilized or efficient.
Thank you for not breaking in that cam at an idle. Too many people make that fatal mistake. But you knew that....:)
As soon as I had the thing spinning the crank under combustion, We were heading for 2500 RPM (as you can see in the first vid)
Then you see me go back to the distributor to pull some timing out (it smooths up right at the end of the vid)
What you don't see after the first vid is I grab the light again and dial in for about 40 degrees BTC all in at 2500. Which is a bit much but I was trying to keep EGT's down because we have brand new ceramic coated headers on her too.
I tell ya, it's a bish doing a break in with new ceramic headers. The cam and the headers both want opposite break ins. The cam wants to go up to 2500 then vary gradually between 2000-3000 for like a half an hour. But the new ceramic coating likes a couple of gradual heat cycles to cure properly.
You're damned either way! lol!
But of course you pick the cam over the header coating. But you can lower your EGT's with more advance and a fat air fuel mixture. So, I went a bit much with the timing and I used the choke plate to fatten the air fuel mix. I rode a fine line with a hint of occasional miss, if I opened the plate any she cleaned up, I just ran her a bit dirty with a little extra advance during the initial run in. It was just enough to save the ceramic and still get my revs so I had good oil delivery while the lifter and cam lobe faces work hardened each other.
All that said, Someday I'll have an engine run stand so it's easier to do break in with a crappy set of manifolds on so I can get the cam break in done first, then get the cooking cycles done the way the header manufacturers want you to do it.
The shifter arrived Friday, we could have a driving car very soon
Excellent!
Please give us a video where you open it up a bit. Of course nothing abusive like dumping the clutch and scorching the hides. Just get it up to about 30 and then step on it so we can hear the motor work a little.
Wow. Old memories, good memories, little bit bad memories, but seeing this brings back a lot of them. My '70 Mach I from back around '72 was a screamin' meemie and I love her still. White with black center stripes and white seats. Never forget it. Dual line Holley that was like flushing a toilet when you pegged it. Tach went one way and the gas gauge went the other. God willing and I win the lottery I'll have another, along with a '63 Falcon Sprint 260 V8 and a '65 Mustang coupe. Thanks for sharing.
Alright guys, we fixed the transmission. Our trans guy had installed a valve sleeve backwards in the governor. That was a needle in a haystack, but we found it and fixed it.
She's pointed down my driveway, waiting for the owners to come and pick her up.
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