Hi all, new to the fire! I was just wondering what yall think about the savage model 11 long range hunter. I am considering buying it in 6.5 creedmoor for smacking distant steel and hunting the wheat fields. I would love to see some pics.

Welcome to the Fire. A few on the boards went to the SHOT show, but one person in particular was Kentucky_Windage. He may have had a chance to handle the LRH. I love the fact that Savage uses a fast twist rate on their 6.5 offerings.

HaYen

me too the 140 grain load should be awesome

Why Salvage? Why Creedmor?.................

Well I have a certain fondness for savage rifles and I like the ballistic qualities of a 6.5 caliber bullet.

Curious as to how Salvage "fondness" is derived?

6.5 based chamberings abound and the Creedmor "advantages" were never clear.............

Well the savage rifles I have are very solid accurate guns. the creedmoor is cheaper to shoot than the 260. You really must dislike savage, but i will play along if it makes you happy. Gotta vent somehow right?

I shoot a little of everything and a lot of most things. I've nothing to vent about,but am often amused at the choices of others and their "reasoning" behind same.

A 6.5BR cheaper yet.............

No need to justify your choices to anyone. I have seen a lot of good shooting Savages, and the 6.5 has been a favourite of mine since the 60's. I am fond of the 6.5x55 but if you are looking for truly long range effect, look into the 6.5x284.

Sometimes personal history, or the feel of the rifle, or even first buck shot with prints an indelable preference. Big Stick's question re fondness for a particular make would fuel a thread in itself.

Welcome to the fire, and keep us posted as to how it goes and how it shoots.

Randy

I've more rounds sent downrange ala Salvage,than any 10 other gents I know combined................

I didn't shoot the long range rifle. Was too busy playing with their lightweight hunter and guns from other manufacturers. The long range hunter's appearance leans too far to the tactical side for my taste. I don't shy away from stainless/synthetic so long as it still looks like a hunting rifle. The LRH, with its adjustable comb, just isn't my cup of tea.

I was intrigued with the lightweight hunter, though. I may get one in 6.5 Creedmoor... just because. Whether you're a Savage fan or not, or like the stock or not, I suspect they're going to sell well because of their weight, price point and Savage's reputation for out-of-the-box accuracy.

Well the BR isn't one of my options as I would prefer the creedmoor or the 260. Wow what a warm welcome I have received. I am not going to rudely criticize someone's choice of firearms it's childish and unnecessary. I don't know what it is with people that makes them think they are so superior to others except for maybe the fact that their arrogance is derived from some inadequacies of their own.

It was/is very warm,but apparently you bruise easily and ain't all that sure about what you are saying.

First it was the Creedmor is "cheaper to shoot".

Do tell.................

Do you reload?.................

I handled and looked one over at Cabelas in 6.5X284 Norma. I liked everything about it once I realized the rough matte finish of the barrel and action were in tune with its purpose. It truly looks like a long range hunter with Karsten adjustable stock and what looked to me like a 26" #3 contour barrel.They aren't easy to find, Cheaper than dirt has them for $768. plus S&H.
Probably a < 1" shooter but hard on throats.

Yes I reload, but I am a college student and I work and I have a family. So my time is precious. Sometimes I want to buy factory ammo to save some time. Creedmoor ammo is around $20 a box vs $30 for the 260. I prefer to try a rifle out with factory ammo and if it shows potential I invest in reloading equipment.

800 clams is enough funds for a skookum build,twisted/throated per whim.

Given ringing steel and spilling blood as focal points............

Intellesting price curve,on the fodder.

I never could weigh a rifle's potential fairly,with Factory fodder................

Wow you are just the Guru aren't you? Well tell me then guru what is your advice? If you see me fit to be enlightened by it.

BTW thanks tack. I appreciate the info. as it pertains to the gun not me individually.

Funny, you asked what people think and then get bent when someone tells you.

Feel free to take exception,to any fact I've laid out in the most simple form for you.

I'd not wager that you have the faculties to actually see the light. I'll getcha to water and reliably...though I look forward to your not drinking it..................

Exactly what I was thinking.

Snakeman, this has been Stick on his best behavior and he's given nothing but solid advice.

I really appreciate the insight guys. I too find the lightweight hunter sexy as that is the type of gun I usually gravitate towards. I am looking for something that rides the bench and the bipod but doesn't break my shoulder. I would like the lightweight in a 6.8 spc because I like that round don't ask me why though couldn't tell ya.

You read too much F&S and shoot too little and are enamored easily with the fluffiest Fluff. You'd best start by actually shooting,instead of dreaming about it...because Reality always trumps Fantasy

Go with a 223 boltgun,spin it fast and thank me later................

Well I don't see any advice there, nsagam. All I see is interrogation of my choices and criticism for not my standard procedures and let me tell you something it's not appreciated. That's just not how we show hospitality where I'm from.

Stupidville ain't got much in the way of "braggin' rights".

Read slooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwer and let it sink in and consider taking notes.

You are in DIRE need..............

I have been shooting for quite some time stick, as well as reloading. I know how to shoot and am quite experienced. Obviously you're having a bad day or something.

Wow!

Define that length of time. Define the number of rounds and say a leetle sumptin' about the rifles and their chamberings.

I'm all ears in regards to that "experience"...................(grin)

Welcome to the Fire. LOTS of good people here, but you need to have a thick skin with some. One bit of advice: it's just the Internet...

Where I'm from when you ask "what y'all think of..." and someone gives you an answer you don't get all pissy.
Then when you said you had a "fondness" for Savage Stick asked you why.
Then he gave you a viable alternative.

But you just got pissed.

Because she knew to skirt particulars,because there ain't none...............(grin)

I told him why I didn't want his alternative its not in the cards for me. I have no interest in the BR cartridges. Plain and simple. I have yet to insult anyone, yet have had nothing to do but defend myself against pig headed morons, oops there went the insult. I don't take kindly to insults or commands from those who are in no place to give them. I just wanted thoughts on the gun I answered his questions and he just kept pushing me. So yeah I got agitated who wouldn't, this guy obviously thinks he's god.

The alternative I'm speaking of is a build for the same money made the way you wanted.

The BR smokes the SPC which you lauded.

Plain and simple...you are beyond clueless and it's just now starting to sink in to you. Dry your tears,quit holding your breath/stomping your feet and you'll learn more than a little.

Hint..............

I have thought about that but a trade is what gives me leverage. I can't trade for a custom build.

This is the one I'm referring to.

This would indicate a trade of your dollars for said rifle.

Childish enough. Oh mines better than yours.

Granted I did not clarify. I meant to say "trading for."

Admittedly,I ain't much fun to measure dicks against...but I'm no 6.5 nor .277" Fan.

We'll getcha there and then giggle when you don't drink.................

Hey, I have an affinity to Savage rifles too.

Primarily because Savage has catered to the left hand market for longer than just about anyone.

They do tend to shoot well and they are pretty trouble free.

That said, they are ugly and feel a bit clunky to me.

In matters concerning hunting and shooting, I'd take brutal honesty every time, and save the hospitality for dinner with the in-laws.

Just a few short months ago, I was dead set on buying my son a 7-08 for his first "deer rifle". Stick and others disagreed and suggested a .243 Win. At first I resisted, but the more I looked into it, the more I thought it was the right choice. Shooting 80 gr. TTSX's, it shouldn't recoil a whole lot more than a centerfire .22, will take its intended quarry cleanly, and it can serve double-duty as a varmint gun.

If I went ahead with my original plan, which I thought was just about perfect, my son would be shooting a harder recoiling rifle, have no varmint gun, and would likely end up with a .223 or .243 a few years from now. In retrospect, my plan was azz backwards, and guys here helped point that out to me.

The moral of this long story is, keep an open mind, try to glean the great advice that you can get here, and roll with the punches. If your mind is completely made up, don't bother asking for opinions, because you WILL get them.

Most of them are ugly I never said it was pretty lol. I they do feel clunky but this gun isn't going to be entered in any beauty contests. In all honesty it won't leave my dad's ranch until I do.

i'd not get the creedmore or the salvage...

If you are trading for a specific rifle how do any of your questions matter?

CoalCracker, i asked for opinions on the gun not the cartridge. I just wanted to know if anyone had any experience with them and how they would rate them. Opinion is one thing insult is another. I am glad they helped you and some have provided good insight and I thank them for that. I am trying to keep an open mind but it's hard to when all the stink is trying to get in.

Now that's what I am talking about!
Plain, simple, to the point, opinion.
Thank you

Do muzzlebrakes,milk jug stocks and Darth Vader combs swoon you too?................

How's this for a straight forward opinion, stick with girl stuff.

No offense to Mr. W., but it's not nearly as entertaining to the audience.

No actually I typically prefer laminate or walnut, straight comb stocks and hate muzzle brakes, but you can bypass the one on the long range hunter.

In fairness to her,she do whine well................

Re. Creedmoore, why not?

How do you bypass the milk jugged Darth Vader?.................

Stick, I meant the muzzle brake Jackass. BTW i don't doubt that you know what you are talking about. I just don't agree with the way you criticize someone you don't even know. I'm a nice guy.

Dickbrain,I mentioned the milk jug Darth Vader stock...mainly because it don't have an on/off switch.

I'll feign my "surprise",that you are enthralled with adding a loudener to your barrel,just so you can turn it off and schlep that extry length to improve it's "balance and handling".

You're on a roll!..................

Stick, you picking on the new guys again?

Again with the name calling.

Short-dog complex.

Just dragging her kicking and screaming to water,so I can watch her not drink...............

Just don't horn me up...

i'm a 6.5 whore too...

Reality Complex and something I've been "plagued" with for many moons............

Me too Paul..

Seems to be a common thing around here...ask someones opinion and dont like the answer.

thanks for the support guys. He is obviously fuming in his mommy's computer chair.

I'm more of a 25 whore, but hell, I'm democratic about it.

With limited time and money, I honestly don't see why you chose the creedmoor (aside from the obvious that has already been pointed out). 223 or 308 clearly would have been a better choice in your circumstance.

Only a clueless Texan from Stupidville,woulda thunk an 800 clam Salvage with an Adjustable Milk Jug Darth Vader Stock and Loudener,was "viable".

I'm cryin'!...............

I have those calibers already lol but thanks for the advice. BTW I have considered another 308; it's still on the list of options.

I noticed your name is big stick, hmmm compensating?

Snakeman you may not like how Stick talks to you but you can rest assured he knows what he talks about and gives good advice, he's helped me several times in the past so I know his heart is right.

Check out this Thread I posted a while back on a cheap rifle.

Again, why NOT the Creedmoor? I keep asking, and no one's answering beyond simply saying "no." What's your rationale?

there's only my 223AI love and 30 cal love that top the 6.5....

if i were to schlep a salvage in 6.5 it'd be this one... http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/models/

An unfounded misnomer,based solely upon figments of your Imagination.

Give or take...............

I'd rather 260,due to logistics and the embarrassing stash of 308 hulls on hand. Cheaper to shoot.................

nice build tom

The question is WHY???

Rational was already provided for why not. There's no inherent advantage to the Creedmoor.

Buying factory Creedmoor fodder alone is reason enough NOT in this case.

wow a big tree imagine my enthusiasm

This is fun! I haven't been this engaged in a thread in a while. Guess that's why yall like it. I guess stick is there to keep fueling the fire.

Feel free to "regale" me with a Haybale Story from Stupidville and all the "rigors" associated...besides the obvious lack of IQ.

Mebbe a Salvage will be in the yarn,somewhere?!!?

Fingers crossed in anticipation!..................

Right. That's works for you and is easy to understand. I'm asking the other naysayers why their blanket "no" on the Creedmoor.

Oh you just love to attack texas don't you buddy? I guess its all you've got though keep em coming.

I already told you...

"Attack"? Hardly,I'm all ears here.

I was hoping to hear all about the powerful allure of barbed wire,hay bales and the countless Outdoor splendors you've seen,in conjunction with a tidbit or two in regards to the wares you favor,in such "fulfilling" pursuits.

With your profound "experience",I know it's going to be rather something..............

All this from a guy who plays with his wood all day!

Didn't mean to horn you up..................

ditto, I have the feeling you feed on conflict.

+1

HaYen

Asking you what you've done and what you've done it with,is now considered "conflict".

Or do you know in your heart of hearts how stupid them "answers" is gonna be and simply ain't about to spill them beans?

I'm "stuck" in Alaska and gotta Hunt/Shoot/Fish everyday,help a brother out...say a little sumptin' about Shopping Malls,over population and [bleep] like that.

You got me on pins and needles here.

Laffin'......................

That chit is just too FF!

I will tell you this much. I have lived and worked on a ranch all my life. I am about to graduate with a B.S. in Animal Business and most of my hunting is for the critters that kill our sheep. Make you happy. What to you do other than cut down trees. BTW I bet you have a grocery store near you somewhere.

So you killed a Coyote once,are partial to being around fences and still yet refrain comment on the wares.

You tease!...................

Snakeman, take some advice, and shut the [bleep] up and listen to what Big Stick and a few others are saying. He used to torque me up a little until I realized what a wealth of knowledge he is. You may not agree with it but take it for what it's worth. Save yourself some time and heartache and sponge some schitt up for a minute. I've realized nothing but success using Stick's load reccos and bullet choices. Not kissing any azz just callin' it for hows it is.

I don't know about a grocery store, but Ingwe runs a Bait Stand/Thong Emporium somewhere up there.

wow, no thank you

What's truly frightening is the frequency with which he confuses the two.

We dip bait out of the Ocean,in a 5 gallon bucket.





I'm rather striking in a thong to boot.................(grin)

Aint it true you got "customer of the month" again now for 34 months straight.?

fair enough

Your job is not much more flattering than mine, I have to stick my arm up a cow's ass to tell if she is pregnant.

Uh you sure thats where its supposed to go?

Only on the Thong Emporium side....

snakeman, grab your $800.00 and run out and buy your Salvage in the Creedless round, and shoot the sh&t out of it. You're going to anyway.
Once you discover what a pile of crap you have invested in, and sell it, for $600.00, if you're lucky, you can come back here and whine about how you were wronged with all of the sound advice you have been given. Wasting time and money is not too popular, as most don't have an excess of either. Buy stuff, the right stuff, the first time, even if it costs more, is always cheeper in the long run. Just sayin'

R.

That's nothing.

*pointing at John Moses*

He's been doing that for decades, only he calls them "dates."

Oprah could stick her arm up a Cow's ass...but I realize you gotta tell yourself SOMETHING.

Just sayin'...................



RINK

Now Tom,

I've posted with you before in the past and find you a decent person. I don't really know Big Stick, but if you say the guy knows his stuff, I'll take your word for it. But there's talking to people and then there's talking down to people. Most people I train, I'll tell them if someone talks down to you, read between the lines; get the real message and walk away. No need to feed there love for controversy. This is the internet so it is easy to hit the "ignore" button.

"prison dates"..........get it right.

The only thing she's gonna shoot,is her Imagination...............

Ah too true rman this is why i asked for advice. So I don't make the wrong choice and lose money I don't have. I have given the ershaw mk vii some consideration also

Suffer yourself to fail, and may your pockets be light of coin.

While you are studying Animal Business, I would suggest taking a course on Greek philosophy. Some of the members here are masters of the Socratic Method.

Nothing like having someone knowledgable question your viewpoints in order to provoke some critical thinking....

ah this is too funny "prison dates" lol

You know, I did take philosophy and rocked it. It was all bs wait B.S. hmm initials?

Socrates always said: "Get the dumb bastards to water and watch 'em not drink...it'll crack you up!".

Damned robed bastard was right......................

Buy something you like, that fits, used. Twist the pipe of your choice on it, and rock out. Then you'll have something to both admire and enjoy. You may even have some jingle left over to put towards some decent glass. Don't make easy sh&t so difficult.

R.

I have never had so much fun in a thread.

Stick around..it gets better....

So i guess I need to get something I can't trade for? Can't do that don't have the funds.

Goods, and/or services can be exchanged for monetary value. You should try it, as it really does work.

R.

I'm a dumbass Canuck so I have no idea what a Darth Vader stock is. I thought he used a llight sabre.

Randy

I typically shoot a savage 99 or a howa 22-250 in a boyds laminate

I guess i could get a howa 6.5x55 and put a laminate stock on it.

A savage 99 is a well crafted well respected rifle by us old bush hunters. In what calibre is it chambered?
Randy

Ain't if funny when the subject of asses and prison gets brought up KW, Tom.177 and Dinkwe are immediately on the scene?

You boys are lovers of man ass and if ya' go stickin' yer hands up each others asses, spare us the details....I just ate.

Like moths to the light!

R.

Your manfriend finally let you go?

Whatever you want!!! Its called the land of the free and the home of ... take no B.S.

Tom.177.....shoooooot.......

They make a .10 you know?

.......and he likes to be referred as Ingwelingus now.

My 99e is a 308 picked it up from a pawn shop.

Gawk the Darth Vader stock................

now THAT was mean....

Stupid is admittedly,the gift that keeps on giving..............

eh everyone has their preferences

That thing looks like a bigger POS than I could have thought possible. Even by Salvage standards.

R.

I hear KW breathes like Darth Vader when he is pig matin'.

Stupidity ain't a "preference",it's a plight................

ain't it though I'm just a stupid texas rancher that has no experience with guns!

And 800 [bleep] clams,at that...............

Hmmmm!

R.

That never ain't not been obvious and the reiteration is moot +P.................

Let me guess you hate the ar15 and ak 47 as well

Dis should be good.....

Yep...............

Well hell...that complex mind of yours just keeps getting better

Hmmmm!

R. [/quote]

Having to steal others material is a sure sign of a dull wit.

Personally, I don't give a schit about either one.

Especially an AK.

Doooooood!

I don't like em that much either

Dude, all joking aside, there is NO WAY that I would own that rifle, now that I've seen it. Especially as a hunting rifle.

I'm usually not bothered by poor aesthetics if something works, but that thing is wrong in so many ways.

Wanna buy an Edsel?

I know! Not bad for a dull wit, eh?

R.

Big stick your narcissism compels me, how many pictures of yourself do you have?

BigStick
Thanks for the picture.
Randy

Mines da debbil

Tom, you better sit your benchrest, sandbag, shotgun sighting in ass down or I'll fit you for a dunce cap.

Few things quainter than a Texan lamenting never having done anything and being clueless to boot...then trying to cypher how none of them "Forays" rated a picture for posterity anyhow.

I'm cryin'!...............

You have to admit....weve been getting you pretty good lately.

Nice grip....laffin'. Is That off of a leaf blower?

i have pictures just don't feel the need to show them off on a forum just feel successful

Tom, ya'll lose everytime. Beating up on ya'll is like bitch slapping a retardo.

Lotsa similarities...

You ought to try one....theys comfy.

I bought a Savage 110 once

Here is a really good example of why I would not touch one with a 10' pole.

savage bolt disassembly

In 60 years of producing this rifle do you think they could have simplified the design?

I'm sure the leaf blower must attach to all of that rail.

R.

I wouldnt know what thats like.......does it feel good to beat up retards?

A retardo?

I knew you were a sick [bleep] but that takes it to a new level.

Oh you too now huh?

Are you talking about the leaf blower, or the retardo?
Either way, I'm concerned.

R.

This is gettin' better...

Oh it'd take "all" of them pictures and a whole [bleep] bunch of Imagination,to get you feeling "successful".

Reality ain't for everyone..............

The "grip" bozo.......


But you knew that.

Ya'll and Jeff O are the only ones who require beatings.

Just doing my job.

Like cowbell, this thread needed more turdlike.

R.

I did?

R.

I'm sittin' it out for just a tad longer.....

OK......well I'll let you get back to Bosslady........I'm sure he/she/it/they are getting lonely again.

I thought I was doin' OK.

R.

I hear you and JasonB are dating again.

How's that working out? LOL.

You are doin' fine...keep with it...

The little gal from Texas that started this Thread,has got you all whooped.

She's on fire!.................

You could start talking about leaf blowin' retardos with "grip" some more, and that get he/she/it/they to look at this thread.

R.

Dont know.....hows Maser and you getting along.?

I heard you got him pregnant?

Give me time...and one more drink....

hmm good point I bet you make good use of that imagination don't you?

True. Very True.

R.

OUCH!

Gotta go.

I enjoyed sparring with my pards and hope I didn't make any of you cry.

If I did, let me take this opportunity to say that I sincerely don't give a schit.

Night fellas. have a good one.

.........Or was it the other way around????

Yep, Maser called.

Awwwww. It was just gettin' good!


R.

We like to take the thread off course....

Most likley just yelled out.

R.

....from the closet.

I was thinking bed, but whatever...

R.

Eveyone knows that Maser was a product of ass love between Tom and Lee24.

It can't be taken further from the course,than that which she was/is "thinking" as being viable.

Bless her little heart and them crossed eyes...............

Maser has this thing for closets...............




So I hear.

Rman, you best get back on the sidelines before you are injured.

I think you are snakeman, just using a different name to ask a plethora of stupid questions to avoid eternal shame and embarrassment.

Well I gotta go.....Wife just put the kiddies to bed and were gonna watch a movie on Netflix.

Been fun playing with you guys.

Night [bleep].

Nope, it's really me. I think my work is done here. It's been fun. Later fellas!

R.

oh suddenly blindsided by john moses and the crowd goes wild!

Have you ordered that $800.00 abortion yet?


R.

nope, not yet! But if i do and it shoots good i will post a pic or two. Not sure what gun I am going to get I have a lot of options.

If you do order, don't forget to inquire about getting a set of Butler Creek pasties to cover up those knobs.

yeah those knobs do look uncomfortable

hell i will post pics if it shoots like crap so everyone can see

Test it with Factory ammo,to make sure all is well.(grin)

What scope/base/rings?

Laffin'................

Just funnin' ya' pard. I hope it works out for you.

JM

Not sure about the optics arrangement yet probably leupold vx2, nikon buckmasters, or redfield accurange. Just because I'm curious what rifle would you recommend?

SuperSoaker,Handloaded with Distilled Water,red dye added for tracer affect,so you can learn drop/drift and chase splash/impact...............

hmm no incredible insight from the big stick?

spoke too soon here it is I ask for advice and he insults me hmm never saw that coming

Cold water...don't wantcha' to hurt yourself..................

Oh what you have no real sage advice? Poor guy

BTW super soaker has no rifling therefore not a rifle!

You was at the waterhole long ago,but got to flapping your gums thinking that you had a [bleep] clue and never drank.

Too funny,even in retrospect..............

lol what is it with you and the waterhole? Is that the only hole you get?

You've never seen a radial helix,reverse cut rifled H2O Match spout?...............

The hole between your ears,would hold at least 5 Grand Canyons.............

Awe insulting my intelligence again? You never cease to amaze!

You insult your "Intelligence",better than anyone else could even begin to aspire to.

Poignant,ain't it?!!?...................

I guess this is why you so revered on this forum eh? You're arrogance and audacity know no bounds! Oh well its still fun!

Please feel free to cite where you think I'm mistaken and I'll use leetler words and happily rub your nose in your own stupidity.

I more than hinted,that you should take notes...and mentioned that I could only getcha to the water.

I'll feign my "surprise"............

You know, I knew quite a few guys like you but that was in junior high. Nice to know this is the way they grow up to be.

Dimwit...

If you know what everyone says you do about rifles then why not speak up!

Please feel free to make all the excuses you deem requisite,to try and sweep your stupidity under the rug. It's cute.

The quicker you quit pointing fingers at others for your ineptitude(s) and savvy the depths of your dumbphucktitude,the quicker you can attempt to get on pace.

Reality ain't for everyone......................

You keep saying the same things over and over and over and over and over this is getting redundant. see ya!

Imagine my stance,trying to deal with the depths of your stupidity,when nothing resembling good sense is allowed into your head...because you have none.

Puts all in perspective...................

I still don't understand why so much against the creedmoor? Is there anything really bad about the cartridge?

Just an observation from a bystander, but earlier this evening he did.... apparently you missed it as you were busy smoothing your hurt feelers from a perceived wrong??

as i said before i have a 223 just wanted to know what else he would truly suggest my feelings were never hurt i was actually laughing it up the whole time. Multiple times I commented on fun.

Ding, ding, ding, ding!

I tell my 22yr old employee to listen more (and better) and run his yap less...but on deaf ears it falls.

Eh hem I'm 23

Tell yourself whatever makes you sleep easy tonight, but without a doubt right off the bat you went on the defensive.

So, you both suffer the same ailment!

Yeah i guess we do

Cite the 223. How's it scoped? Bases/rings?

Fodder?................

I did get defensive i will admit it.

Well the 223 I have right now is an ak so I don't really want to scope it. I did have a cz but sold it to pay off credit card bills. I am more looking for something that will double for ringing steel and thumping deer and pigs but won't break the budget. BTW the cz was scoped with a burris fullfield 4x40 and I used it calling at night.

OK...everything you've had was a piece of [bleep] [bleep],good riddance all.

Budget? Do you Reload?...............

Aside from the AK, what else do you have?

right now my go to gun is a howa ranchland 22-250 with one piece base and leupold vx2. It doesn't fare well on the bench because it heats up quick. But it is very accurate and makes a great yote gun. I load it in winchester brass with a 55 gr. blitzking over 35.5 gr of h4895 for .5 to 1" groups

I also have a dpms 6.8 carbine upper on a smith and wesson lower, a savage 99e 308, remington model 760 308, h&R 45/70 ultra hunter, and western field model sb712 30/30, that's it for center fire

Anything else?

yeah a ruger 10/22 i won, a henry 22, marlin laminate stainless 22 mag, iver johnson 22, stoeger uplander, browning buckmark, ruger super single six from the 70s, rossi 357 and a couple of pellet guns

That's quite the eclectic collection!

You adverse to chunking it and re-gearing?

Snakeman where is TX are you?

yeah the thing is most of them were won from big buck contests or gifts, I might sell the 30/30 to the brother in law and the 45/70 but that's about it

I live near San Angelo, forgot to metion the 6.8 I will sell that upper.

If it were me, I'd sell all but the 10/22 and roll the funds into a couple rock solid rifles and glass. YMMV

If it weren't for sentimental value I might sell a few.

I'd keep the single six...

You's neck deep in [bleep]................

yeah I am quite fond of my dad's old single six and my granddad's old model 760.

and you sir are full of it. My collection may not be the greatest but sentimental value means a lot to me.

Ok, so excluding the sentimental few, what are you willing to trip?

Do not let your Estrogen levels cloud Reality............

the 45/70 and the 6.8 upper

big stick did you get my pm?

Just looked and I've 174 PM's currently.

Not everyone rates a reply.............

wow ok

Just an observation from another bystander. He said go with the 223 and spin it fast and thank him later. But what is wrong with the Creedmore?

nothing i asked the same question to no avail

{rolling eyes} Stop being obtuse....

Either some have trouble with reading comprehension or are [bleep] dense. The OP originally asked what everyone's opinion was on his particular rifle selection and cambering.

Some stated it wouldn't be their choice (didn't turn their crank, better 6.5 alternatives available, limited factory fodder and cheaper alternatives available if $$, and no time or desire for reloading).

Another questioned the OP's reasoning for his selection. Since his ego wasn't stroked regarding his proposed selection, he immediately became defensive and it all went down hill from there......


At the end of the day, it's your $$$ and you only have yourself to please.

If you can't accept honest feedback and constructive criticism when you ASKED the open board..... well sheit, don't ask.

She's grasping at straws and chasing her tail...all on a budget,while polishing turds.

I couldn't steer someone who's shot/"knows" that little,towards a niche chambering,as a means of the best path to learn the Basics. The modest trigger time won't allow the connection of them dots and it'll simply be an expensive lesson in the end.

Too easy to scoot nice BC's in a 223,for next to nothing and with superb Precision,less the goat [bleep] associated with niche [bleep]. Seeing trace/impact very much accelerates the learning curve and the satisfactions inherent and fun associated,promote more trigger time and the far cheaper components further align them stars towards an actuality.

The goofy [bleep] sets idle,the good [bleep] gets run and often.

Hint.................

The Creedmore is an answer to a question, nobody asked. Just another angle to sell more guns. There is already the 260, 6.5x55, 6.5x284...

Get a fast twist 243.

Curious, what would you consider a rock solid rifle?

Rem 700? Win 70? Montucky? X-Bolt? Defiance Machine SA with a Pierce Engineering BDL Trigger Guard and bottom metal plate; Jewell Trigger; "24 SS Kreger #2; 11 degree target crown; McMillan Edge; Tally lightweights; and Zeiss 6.5-20x50 AO MC Conquest Stainless Rifle scope

Or an SKS and round out the trifecta (AK, 6.8)..

The 123 Scenar rates a thunk,but not for them counting pennies...............

Snakeman

He answered your question. And if you look between the lines it makes sense.




See

Reality will do her some good,for a change.

Fluff does no favors.....................

LOL. Alright. Don't shed that skin snakeman you're going to need it.

She can't stay in the house all her life,wearing that helmet,while inside the bubble.

Experience is only granted,by experiencing things and she needs ALL she can get.....................

Uhm...

I only got a page deep into this but I can see where it's going.

Can't fault the choice of rifle, as the Savages I've messed with have been very accurate... that said they bug me, and I don't currently own one nor am I likely to anytime soon. So I dunno, I'd rather see you build off a M700 action; you could maybe squeeze that into the $800 budget, and in the end, I think you'd have more. But whatever.

The cartridge choice sits wrong with we me for a college student. The cost of factory ammo is a red herring; forget that. You gotta load for a LR rig. I went to college for a long time.... grin... to me, being in college says "tight budget", and if so, I think you'd be better served by a more common bore size. At least around here, 7mm and .30 and .24 and .22 bore bullets are easily procured, go on sale, etc, as do the common cases, like 7-mag or whatever.

Long way of saying I think you'd be better off with a .24 or 7mm chambering. I see the appeal of an $800 factory target rifle that almost certainly shoots, so I won't go down the Savage-beating path. BUT, $800 buy a donor action and premium barrel installed and I guess you have to go cheap on a stock at first... just a thought.

I ski'd my butt off today and am gonna enjoy the afterglow as long as possible, so I ain't getting involved in a pizzin' match. Good luck to you snakeman.

Personally, I'd make it simple cut right to the chase:

Kimber 84M Montana .223
Talley LW
Leupold VX3 3.5-10x40mm M1 elevation turret
60gr. V-Max for practice and 62gr. TSX for hunting

Granted, there's other options available, but several would entail additional expenditures (rate of twist is not optimal on most factory offerings).

Well....

$800 buys a .223 like mine; I believe it is/was called the M700P and has a 26" 1:9 twist heavy barrel in a Fiberglas/pillar HS stock similar to the Sendero stock.

Not saying it's the greatest but as a target rifle out to 650 yards I sure like it. Mine bugholes the 69 SMK so that's what I feed it.

I'm not as bullish on a straight .223 for LR practice as some here are. Fun-yes. An analogue for heavier cartridges? Not so much. Maybe a 1:8 AI version solves that.

Always cracks me up,when you start talking,like you know what the [bleep] you are talking about!

PRICELESS....................

*shrug*

Savages usually shoot, but I don't like the chambering he's floating... no rocket science knowledge required there. Thank God.

I like my 700p; talk about seeing your hits... a .223 that heavy is very stable. absolutely patterns the 75-amax though, which is a bummer.

Here is a guy looking for a 6.8 upper... trip it!

Some like repeating what they've heard. No experience required.

Parrots are a good example.

thanks, sactoller I cotacted him.

I never asked the validity of my cartridge choice simply the rifle. Big stick what is your problem man? It must take a lot of effort to be the jerk that you so obviously aspire to be. I made it my prerogative to apologize to you for a certain comment yet you still can't see through your ego. Grow up!

read more, type less.... you'll learn something if you ain't careful!

I don't mind learning and totally agree that a 223 is a great round for bench rest shooting and practice but its not ideal for hunting deer on wheat fields. I said I wanted something for hunting the wheat fields. If I wanted to go small I would just use my 22-250!

I'm done with this start the celebration!

how big is the wheat field?

Get you a stainless 700 SPS, 7-08, and gun 120gr TSX's over RE-15.

Step up to a 700, .280 Mountain Rifle if cash allows.

That will get you started.

thanks buck that's a much more economical approach. BTW the wheat fields are around 300-400 acres each

I think the classifieds are where to look. I think the 7mm-08 is a great round but not the best for open wheatfield gunning.

acres don't mean chit to me. How far can you shoot?

I will tell you that if it weren't so ridiculously expensive for reloading components and ammo my first choice would be a 257 weatherby.

how far?

400 yards is about as far as I want to shoot at something that lives.

Fast twist 223 and 75 Amax's. it'll be like cheating...

Fair enough! I will give that some thought

The 120X turns the 7-08 into a 25-06.....almost

I used to shoot a 7mm mag in this type of situation then I thought the 270 wsm would be it for me but the best group I could get out of it was 1.5" which met their guarantee but just wasn't good enough for me.

My dad had a 7mm-08 for a while its a nice round.

True that..

Here is a good place to start Snakeman.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth..._Remington_7mm_Mags_for_sale#Post4871375

If you used to shoot a 7mm Mag why not just go back to it? You know what it can do. As far as the 270 WSM it just seems to be a short action 7mm Mag with fewer options of projectiles.

you need to be in 308 or 223 mode. Buy bulk ammo and practice to your intended distance...

Sell whatever and pick up a 700 and rebarrel or might look at the Sako A7 .25-06 in the classifieds for just over $500

never mind it sold

The thing is I am not a big fan of remmys or sako's. They have both done me wrong. I have had three remingtons and one tikka. I know tikka is not sako, but I am still leery.

I still have a lot of options and a plenty of time to make up my mind. My family tells me not to get another 308 because I already have two, but neither of them even take a bipod well or ride the rest well either.

Laud your Remmy boltgun woes.

I know but they were all accurate just didn't fit me right. I prefer Howa or Savage, maybe Browning.

What stocks were you running on the Remmy

Howas are a good buy. You can usually pick up a Weatherby Vanguard cheep too. Gunbroker is a good place to look too.

A square 440 acre field is 1/2 mile across. That would be a 1/4 section for anyone that's run a combine.

Just the originals, but that was back before I even knew how to fit a new stock to a gun. A bad gunsmith screwed up my 7mm mag and my 22-250 had ejection problems. My 17 fireball was just loved rust and reflecting the spotlight when calling at night. My dad's remingtons started out good but went to crap until we had er shaw install a new barrel. I know most people have good luck with them but not us.

I didn't say I wanted to shoot all the way across lol.

blow me! grins


How you been?

by my math and my math sucks, that's under 900 yards... a good bolt gun in 308 will get you there just fine...

You are making my head hurt....Solid advice being given and you have an excuse for why not.

I am not making excuses, simply stating why i don't want to get screwed by remington again.

Here we go again.

No I think hes just gunning for the longest rookie thread.

Only 400 yards ? Any bolt gun in a standard chambering can handle that. Best bang for the buck is probably Weatherby Vanguard. A Savage will certainly suffice if that's what you prefer.

I will keep it in mind.

I've no problems,but am grounded in Reality. Pardon my inability to shift my brain into a low enough [bleep] gear,that I gotta dote upon Fantasy...which is where you reside.

Sucking my azz,ain't going to make you any brighter and I mentioned some time ago,that taking notes was going to do you some real favors.

That constant remains....................

The 22-250 can't begin to hang with a 223,due to twist rates and BC.

Write that down.................

The 257Wby is easily one of the cheapest H&H based rounds to shoot.

Write that down.................

The 162 will turn it into things you wouldn't believe,until you seen it..................(grin)

JHC on a popsicle stick!

Quit the Turd Polishing.

Write that down...............

You screwed yourself due to sheer stupidity. Remington can only giggle at the cause/affect,like the rest of us.

Write that down...................

Im writing that down....

VG long before Salvage...............

22-250 can't hold up to 223 that's the dumbest thing i have ever heard.

She'll not dip Transonic until 1500yds+,even in stubbon atmospheres(mine). Most are enjoying thinner air and less moisture,which only adds possibilities to the equation.

Boolits matter far more than headstamps and the quicker folks can wrap their minds around that,the taller the cotton they are playing in....................

You are too stupid to savvy twist and BC,which will allow you to reliably think/say the dumbest [bleep] things,that are the most distant from simplistic FACT.

Write that down..............

you are a terrible person

No doubt there.

would those be the amax? how do they fair on game, no experince with them, just intial thought was they were for steel.

If facts are troubling to you,I'm the biggest dick you've ever seen or heard of. Should they interest you,you'll be burning reams of paper trying to keep pace with the intel's volume and accuracy.

Write that down..................

Given that a .22-250 is usually twisted on the slow side unless a custom barrel, a .223 with a fast twist to shoot heavier bullets leaves it in the dust. That is a non-debatable fact. Just sayin

Current versions dig veddy,veddy nicely.

Sister punched this one at 3000fps impact speed(7 Whizzum),crushing shoulders and getting an exit.



I love 'em in 7-08,280,280AI,7ShamWow,7Whizzum and 7 Remmie,at any/all distances................

22-250 Rem 55 gr V-MAX�

* Ballistics

22-250 Rem 55 gr V-MAX�
Test Barrel (24") Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
3680/1654 3253/1292 2867/1003 2511/770 2183/582 1880/432
Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
-1.50 0.90 0.00 -5.20 -15.90 -33.90



223 Rem 75 gr BTHP Match�

* Ballistics

223 Rem 75 gr BTHP Match�
Test Barrel (24") Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
2790/1296 2561/1092 2344/915 2137/760 1941/627 1757/514
Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
-1.50 1.90 0.00 -8.30 -24.10 -49.30

I fail to see how it is left in the dust you morons!

The A-max is one of the biggest hammers in the drawer. Someone told me that a while ago, and I wrote it down.

R.

btw those ballistics came straight from hornady.com

Nice one by Sister. You try the .30 cal A-Max? Thinking 155gr or 168gr Moly might be interesting

I came into 200 168 bergers (orange box) for free and was planning on running them in my up and coming 7Whizzum. Would that be the wrong path to take?

FPS isn't everything. We are talking on game performance. Can't get it from the "book"

Actually, four 40 ac fields in a square would be a half-mile on all sides and is a quarter section (160ac). No combine experience here, but i have spent a bit of time marking timber. (grin)

I found my 6mm bergers tough to get to shoot, and on game, the A-max to me, far out performed it. I was getting dead deer with both, but I was getting consistant exits with the A-max vs not so much with the berger. Load up a batch of both, and see whats what.

R.

I have seen the way both work on game and sorry the 22-250 knocks em' down while they run with the 223. The explosive properties of the 22-250 shut down the vitals instantly bullet construction has more to do with it than just how long and heavy the projectile is.

I'd take the 162 over the 168,but the 168 will easily allow you to stretch things out.................

Dude, you're 23 years old, and don't know schitt. Shut up, and listen, or leave. Your entertainment value has come to an end.

R.

I am guessing you are talking varmint bullets....good luck with that.

My age has nothing to do with anything moron! You probably grew up in the city and have no clue anything outdoors. God i hate it someone thinks I am stupid just because of my age. WTF?

Never had a problem with 55gr. soft points out of a 22-250 except its there so fast I don't have time to see the animal go down!

Taint your age, tis your posts

Your Imagination is taking you once again,far away from Reality.

Run the 75A-Max and it's .435BC at 3140fps(my 1-8" 21" 223AI) and a like zero and run the comeups out there. Say a leetle sumptin' about drop/drift,residual impact velocity and then we'll bring it full circle to Terminal affects...just to rub your nose in your own stupidity.

Write that down...............

I have put more miles on in the bush while you were still in diapers, than you have in your whole life. Your age has everything to do with it, and your stupidity proves that point beyond any doubt. You have recieved solid advice from some of the most expierienced hunters and shooters around, period. Choose to follow it, or don't, but for Christ's sake, quit your bitching and moaning, get tough, and get a [bleep] clue.

R.

I dont think people think your stupid because of your age, I think its because you keep rebutting sound advice.

If you were to shoot a coyote with a 223 55gr vmax at 150 and shoot a coyote with a 22-250 with the same 55gr vmax at 150 both would react the same.

If you were to shoot a coyote with a 223 using the Remington UMC 50gr MC(Metal Case) it would run off and die later. I know.

You are stupid,due to your IQ and "experience".

On the bright side,you'll be just as stupid when you're 46...so you got THAT goin' for ya'.

Laffin'!................

Akin to "bragging" about jerking off,because you've never been laid.

Once you whittle your first hunk,your tune will change.

Write that down................

I know a 55 grain out of either on a coyote will react the same and I know a 223 is fine for paper punching. Heck for that purpose its better than a 22-250 but for deer no contest. If you were to load the same bullets in each and shoot a deer in the vitals with them the results would be substantially different, I know I have seen this many times.

I'm all ears in regards to your .224" 75A-Max terminal affects "findings",steeped by your "vast experience".

I'm crying!...................

big stick, just so you know you have been ignored

Only if they both have the same twist, otherwise it is a moot point.

Snotboy, you have just crossed into to realm of beyond stupid. Well done! Please expound more, on your many, many, years of hunting and shooting "expierience". Playing rut'n bucks on the X-Box does not count...

R.

as is pacecars and rman, no clue what yall wrote

No clue, period.

R.

I give...we are not worthy of his vast experience and knowledge.....Laffin!

Cool! I am on someone else's ignore list!

FORGET THIS FORUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here is your chance to prove us wrong. This is not a challenge, but a offer. Ill have 15 extra doe tags next fall. Bring your 22-250 and ill bring my 223 and will do some test work.

On the bright side Sugartits,you'll be stupid wherever you go and you seemingly feel comfy in them constants.

Reality ain't for everyone.

Write that down................

you worthless piece of [bleep] [bleep]!

you all [bleep] suck

make you happy?

Snotboy, don't let the door hit you dumb azz on the way out...


R.

Invitation revoked.

Snotboy wins the "most whine, in the shortest time" contest. Will be a performance tough to beat.

R.

OOH watch me purposefully misspell a curseword [bleep] we all do it here on this schitty forum

Stupidity is the gift that keeps on giving and dat's beyond refute.

She's writing that down....................(grin)

Are you still here?

R.

Reality ain't for everyone and your Imagination ain't never not gonna get the best of you.

Write that down................

119 posts and they are all on this thread. I guess now he is an experienced poster and knows everything about the campfire!

.223 1:7 twist, 53 gr DRT 185 Lbs

awe cute

I think it's OleDouche/BossLady with a new handle.

Are you sure it is your hand that is up the cows arse?

Let's give her some more,to write down...in the 22-250/223AI cross reference.

She digs the 55V-Max and it's .255BC at 3680fps and we'll factor like atmospheres/zero's,in the name of lotsa laughs. Wind is always a 10MPH full value,for sake of discussion,glass height same/same for like reason.

From a 200yd zero/55'Max/3680fps:

At 300yds she's 1.6MOA low,drifts 8.4" and at 2600fps

500yds 6.1MOA ele,26.1" wind and 2001fps

700yds 12.9MOA,58.6" wind and 1498fps

1K 30.6MOA ele,146" wind and subsonic at 1035fps


Now 223AI/75A-Max:

300yds she's 1.9MOA low,drifts 5.6" and at 2557fps. The wind is already in her favor and that'll get uglier from here and she'll get the residual impact speed advantage...at say the 340yd line and never lose it. But in fairness,the 55 is going a full 43fps faster at 300yds,for clarity.(grin)

500yds 6.6MOA ele,16.7" wind and 2200fps(425yd speed of the 55gr)

700yds 12.5MOA ele,35.3" wind and she's shooting much flatter,in comparison to the 55. 35.3" wind and 1871fps(550yd speed for the 55)

1K 24.7MOA ele,81.6" wind and 1447fps(725yd 55gr speeds)


Hopefully she'll feel compelled to chime in,denote how she makes range determinations,corrects same and we can muse terminal affects to boot.

She'll need a buncha paper,to write all that down...............(grin)

you [bleep] [bleep] no wonder people [bleep] hate you dipshit what are your credentials since you are such a [bleep] expert?

yeah that's what i thought you douchbag

Dude, you are more than showing your age. Just pack it up, and go...

R.

Facts trouble many and reality ain't for everyone.

Write that down............

ok van wilder

Me showing my age hmm i cleanly apologized to big stick but he continued to assault me. Acting my age. Well just let me know when this dipshit graduates high school!

Feel free to tell yourself,that which you need to believe most.

Reality and facts ain't working for you,so REALLY crank that Imagination up and fly away to your World of make believe,as a salve for your most unfortunate plight.

Write that down................

Lee24 is that you?

whatever i forgive you anyway just hope God does

You assault yourself.

You could sue you for slander...and win..................

thats what i thought he is an armchair ballistic guru

ok i am off guys

Let's just hope you mean it, this time.

R.

I dont think you ever offend Big Stick, so a appology wasnt warranted, but it was the manly thing to do. All I think he wants you to do is listen, and do. And he probably doesnt even care at that. Oh and he probably wont tell ya the answer to your question either, but he will tell you the equation.

Its that whole "give a man a fish feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life" thing. Someday you will understand.

I said early on,that it's very amusing to get 'em to water and then watch 'em not drink.

Cracks me up!................

She's powerless in the refrain,to put her stupidity on display................

At least he got one thing right....he is definitely "off"

Does Jeff O have a 23 yr. old kid?

You KNOW she's putting red dye in her SuperSoaker.................(grin)

Red Dye?? More like Pepper spray! Go look in the "Talk to the Webmaster" forum...

Is she gonna sue herself for slander?..................(grin)

It appears she had her feelings hurt

Oldelkhunter... you should PM snakeman... your selling what he needs.

Wait..never mind..its a your selling a Remmy,

She wouldn;t know what to do with a Remmy

Probably....

but I wager if you offer up a single-shot H&R Handi-Rifle Handi-gripped stock with bull barrel and muzzle brake chambered in 6.5x50mm Japanese Arisaka she would sprain her wrist whipping out the credit card.

Pure unadulterated sexiness.... (sans brake)

A Pedigreed 6.5

Hornady�s new 6.5 Creedmoor is designed to be a competition cartridge. It�s all that�and maybe more.

By J. Scott Rupp


The name Creedmoor is steeped in American marksmanship history.
Creedmoor was the first premier shooting range on American soil,
purchased in 1873 through an appropriation from the state of New
York and money from raised by the embryonic National Rifle Association.

It was at Creedmoor in 1874 that a group of upstart shooters, the Amateur Rifle Club of New York, took on United Kingdom champs Ireland in a competition billed as the "championship of the world." The U.S. won that long-range match, fired at 800, 900 and 1,000 yards, and won it again the next year.

The following year at Creedmoor saw the U.S. beat Australia, Canada, Ireland and Scotland, and in 1877 America out-shot Great Britain in the last major international match held at Creedmoor.

So it's fitting then that the name of Hornady's new commercial cartridge, designed from the ground up to be a highpower competition cartridge, would be 6.5 Creedmoor.

The idea was the result of a 2006 discussion between Hornady senior ballistician Dave Emary and Dennis DeMille, a two-time national highpower champion and general manager of shooting supply company Creedmoor Sports. The discussion came, appropriately enough, at the National Matches at Camp Perry, Ohio, and the gist of it was this: What would be an ideal cartridge for both across-the-course and long-range highpower competitions, one the average guy could go out and buy and be competitive with?

As Emary pointed out to me on a recent visit to Hornady's Grand Island, Nebraska, headquarters, the list of usual suspects is a short one. There's the 6mm, which Emary discarded because he believes the bullets have to be pushed too hard to be competitive in 1,000-yard shooting. The .308 is a bit handicapped at long range because of its low velocity at long range. Then there's the 6.5-284, a favorite among the long-range set.

"You don't need that kind of capacity," Emary says. "Plus we wanted to make a cartridge that would work as an across-the-course rifle, not just 1,000."

And the .308-based .260 Remington? "The neck is too short for very low-drag (VLD) bullets," Emary notes.

So Emary turned to a cartridge he developed a few years ago, the .30 TC, and thought that round might just be the ticket if it were necked down to 6.5. And with that he turned the project over to Joe Thielen, an avid long-range benchrest and highpower shooter in Hornady's engineering department.

SPECIFICATIONS:
6.5 CREEDMOOR
Manufacturer Hornady Manufacturing, 308/382-1390
Bullet: 120, 140 A-Max
Muzzle Velocity: 3,020 fps (120), 2,820 fps (140)
Ballistic Coefficient: .470 (120), .585 (140)
Case Length 1.92 in.
Head Diameter .473 in.
Shoulder Angle 30 degrees
Water Capacity 51 to 52 grs.
Max OAL 2.82 in
Primer Pocket large rifle
Operating Pressure 62,000 psi; 57,000 psi as loaded by factory
Thielen pushed the shoulder back to permit a long neck while maintaining a 30-degree shoulder angle, creating a case with a water capacity of 51 to 52 grains (the sample he measured for me was 51.7). And because the team worked on the design of the cartridge and the chamber simultaneously, they were able to maximize the bullet/chamber interface by tailoring the chamber to take advantage of the reduced bullet jump provided by short-ogive 120- and 140-grain A-Max bullets.

"We set it up for the A-Max so when loaded to the correct overall length the boattail doesn't go below the 'doughnut' at the base of the neck," Thielen notes.

To boost accuracy potential even further, the freebore diameter is .2645, which reduces initial yaw as the bullet begins its journey down the bore.

The next step was to find the right powder.

"No secrets here," Emary says. "We want guys to be able to go out and duplicate on their presses the performance we're loading at the factory." If you doubt Hornady's intentions, you'll find the load recipe printed on every box of 6.5 Creedmoor that leaves the factory.

The goal then was to find an off-the-shelf powder with low temperature sensitivity that would produce the desired velocities with moderate charge weights. Temperature sensitivity is important because guns get hot during a match, and cartridges that spend time in a hot chamber while the shooter waits for the right condition can heat up significantly.


A Pedigreed 6.5


Aside from two shots Rupp broke to the right, this rested
600-yard group shows the round�s potential.

"We decided on 4350 because it fills the case nicely and produces good uniformity," Thielen says.

The pressure spec for the 6.5 Creedmoor is the same as the .308 Winchester, 62,000 psi, although Hornady's factory loads are well below that at 57,000 psi. For the time being, Hornady is not going to seek SAAMI certification for the round, but Thielen says that could become a possibility down the road.

The 6.5 has a lot going for it as a competition round due to the bullet's high ballistic coefficient, and you can verify that by looking at the accompanying wind drift chart. And on my visit to Hornady I had the opportunity to shoot the round through both of the guns currently chambering the round, the Tubb 2000 (pictured in the lead photo) and a DPMS Panther, at 600 yards.

Both of the guns were pussycats to shoot--and that was off a benchrest. The 6.5 demonstrated low vertical dispersion (for a discussion of that see David Tubb's "Precision Riflery" column in the July/August issue). Had I not broken two shots to the right you could've covered my first 600-yard group with the palm of your hand. A second group was only slightly larger, and the DPMS gun performed okay, although the guys I was with shot it far better than I did.

So where does it go from here? Steve Hornady says the company plans to get behind a few select highpower shooters to spread the word about the cartridge--hopefully through some winning performances at matches around the country.

If the cartridge delivers on its promise, which by all indications it should, I think Hornady has created a terrific new option for competitive shooters.

When I looked at the Creedmoor's ballistics, the first thing that crossed my mind was, "What if?" What if a whole bunch of American hunters looked at the efficiency, low recoil and long-range potential of this round and finally "discovered" the 6.5? What might happen when they realize that the 120-grain Creedmoor is still supersonic to 1,400 yards and has a maximum point blank range in excess of 350 yards? Think they'd be interested?


Well, it so happens that Hornady is already looking to experiment with what kind of performance it could get with the 6.5 Creedmoor out of a sporting barrel in the 22-inch range using high-tech powders available only to ammo makers.

"With the Creedmoor we developed the load for accuracy, but for hunting we could boost the velocity without degrading the accuracy," Emary says. "So it might go from a 1/2 minute cartridge to a 3/4 minute cartridge."

If the engineers can achieve the performance they want, a hunting load could become a possibility. But beyond the wildcat potential some intrepid experimenters will jump on, Hornady will have to convince a major gun maker to get on board.

The firm has been successful with that in the past--the .30 TC (with Thompson/Center) and more recently the .300 and .338 RCMs (with Ruger). If it decides to do so again, we could have a terrific new 6.5 hunting round to play with.

I'm 58 and I say the kid can stay as long as he wants and can freely speak his mind.

That's great and all, but I don't recall asking a question about it, particularly from you, or anyone else.

R.

Humorous concept,coming from The Queen of Plagiarism.

You're reluctance to speak in the firsthand,is undoubtedly exceptionally well founded..................................

Nice. The future of America. Whar'd ye grajeate frum?

Didn't mean to horn you up.

Don't shoot much,do ya'?.................

Well,

Stick called it. He's [bleep]' retarded.

Laffin'.

I know you're just saying, but the math doesn't support the claim. Primarily because you are shooting a heavier bullet with a smaller charge.

Run the numbers on a 70gr Speer (BC .214) loaded in a 223 w/ 23.5grs of H322 is going to get a MV of 2900 fps (+- 5% est). Not bad. At 500 yards your looking at somewhere in the neighborhood of 1200 fps and 224 foot pounds of energy. Keep the bullet in the vitals on the right size game (i.e. no Polar Bears) and it will go down.

Now take a 22-250 with a 55gr V-Max (flat base bullet BC = .255) with a MV just under 3800fps with 4064 and you're looking at 1941 MV and 460 Foot Pounds at 500 yards.

A guy who shoots competition at our club has a ton of .224's, .308's, .338's, and 6.5's. But only has one hunting rifle; a 375 H&H. Why? Because he wants too.

Someone else already mentioned earlier that a well constructed bullet and a good shot is very important.

Just saying

Oh, I thought we were comparing a 223 to 22-250? Well in that case a 22-250AI with a 1-9" 26" barrel running the 75gr A-Max and it's .435BC at 3500+ fps.

Just to keep things fair.

Easy now. Snakeman is getting a ribbing here but I don't think he wants anyone to die. ITS JUST THE INTERNET.

Men facing each other have a tendency to show each other a little more respect. Cajoling and giving each other a hard time can be fun and a way to bond, but the internet creates annonymity and people take license. Reading someone as you enter into a discussion to determine their acceptable level of insult cannot be done in internet interchanges. Repercussions are minimal here on the internet. If we treat our responses as if we were across the fire at hunt camp, I belive there would be a greater level of civility in the banter.

This is just my two cents worth. In my daily life I deal with crisis management as a paramedic and respect goes a long way to mitigate aggression.

Randy
I am far thicker skinned than most, but do not allow disrespect to enter my thinking.

I think Retards would be insulted by that Window licker

IP check aisle five. Smells like a retread...

It could be his wife posting....to protect her 'man'!

Done been did,but you missed the boat:


Let's give her some more,to write down...in the 22-250/223AI cross reference.

She digs the 55V-Max and it's .255BC at 3680fps and we'll factor like atmospheres/zero's,in the name of lotsa laughs. Wind is always a 10MPH full value,for sake of discussion,glass height same/same for like reason.

From a 200yd zero/55'Max/3680fps:

At 300yds she's 1.6MOA low,drifts 8.4" and at 2600fps

500yds 6.1MOA ele,26.1" wind and 2001fps

700yds 12.9MOA,58.6" wind and 1498fps

1K 30.6MOA ele,146" wind and subsonic at 1035fps


Now 223AI/75A-Max:

300yds she's 1.9MOA low,drifts 5.6" and at 2557fps. The wind is already in her favor and that'll get uglier from here and she'll get the residual impact speed advantage...at say the 340yd line and never lose it. But in fairness,the 55 is going a full 43fps faster at 300yds,for clarity.(grin)

500yds 6.6MOA ele,16.7" wind and 2200fps(425yd speed of the 55gr)

700yds 12.5MOA ele,35.3" wind and she's shooting much flatter,in comparison to the 55. 35.3" wind and 1871fps(550yd speed for the 55)

1K 24.7MOA ele,81.6" wind and 1447fps(725yd 55gr speeds)


Hopefully she'll feel compelled to chime in,denote how she makes range determinations,corrects same and we can muse terminal affects to boot.

She'll need a buncha paper,to write all that down...............(grin)

I know the fast twist 22-250AI,more than a bunch well. It's not something I'd put in the hands of someone as stupid as she,for a Daily Driver for Utility.

The 223AI is where it's at,day in and day out...................

There you go again, clouding everything up with facts!

I guess they just want to look at the water. they just aint thirsty yet

I have no aversion to the 223. It will take game here and abroad; Relatively inexpensive to shoot and reload; and fun to shoot out of a full auto.

But what I really like to use its case for is 100yd practice out of my 22-250 M12 VFSS with a 1:12 TR using a 55gr VMAX and H380.



Fact: Aim small miss small.

I like that a 1-8" 223AI will slap a slow twist 26" 22-250 silly,at any/all Ranges and in any/all applications.

Rubs them slow twist Window Lickers wrong,for some damned reason?!!?...............

You mean 22-250AI 1:9 twist 26: barrel right? Or do you mean 223 compared to a 22-250?

Yes. I've got 'em all...and then some.

1-9" Hart 22-250AI,M40A1 return handle wearing matching numbers,Mk4 flat rail,Badger Standards,Mk4 M1 16x.




Just sayin'...................

1-7.7" Kreiger 22-250AI on right,1-8" Lilja 22-250AI on left.




Just sayin'..................

Dam!!!! Those are nice! Especially like the specs and looks of the M40A1.

I ain't very good at guessin',because I've never had to...............

Can't believe I read this whole flippin thread,, to bad snakeboy was to young/thin-skinned/inexperienced to learn anything, he will hopefully grow up sooner or later,, I have a 1-9 twist savage .223 that would be great for the boy. He will have to get his own though,, I like my Savages no matter what Stick says,,he makes for fun reading though and there is indeed some gold in amunst the droppings

and the $800 turd the boy wanted is just fugly

It ain't like she had $800...but it were funny none the less.

Just finished bolting together the greatest Salvage ever produced,for Hind Leg Pursuits. Couldn't decide which tube to poke on it,so defaulted 7-08.

Again.................(grin)

and this greatest "salvage" issssss?

The only Good 'Un they've ever built..................

Need a drum role?????????

They built/build a good one? Really?
99's don't count!

R.

They probably cammoed it to look like a Remmy

and a 99 in 7mm-08 would be really nice if done right

Think ergo's.


Hint....................

Duuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhh,,,, alright I though,,,,, still lost

Whatever it is I agree on the 7mm-08, great round and my go to gun for hogs/deer

They've only made one handle,that's worth a [bleep]................

Mans gotta sleep sometime,,twas midnight here,

and here I was expecting a Stevens 200 wearing a burris ff2 scope and a fancy darth vader stock with knobs,,,,

Thats a nice looking rig, bet it does well as a long range critter getter,,, and that bench is just toooo flippin organized man.