Originally Posted by JMR40
There have been several tests showing 200-220 gr 30-06 and 300 mag both outperformed 35 Whelen on the big stuff. It actually outperformed everything smaller than 375 mag, including 338 mag. Pretty obvious which works better with lighter bullets at longer range on smaller game. According to my recoil calculations a 300mag/200 @2900 fps also has slightly less recoil than a 35 Whelen/250 @2550 fps.

Someone posted results of testing done by Finn Aagard a while back but I cannot find them. This is a similiar test done by the Alaska Game Dept on their recommendations for large bear protection. In a nutshell they say 375 outperforms everything else, but 30-06 with heavy bullets is their 2nd choice. First choice if recoil is just too much with the 375. The 300 mag equaled, but did not beat 30-06 at close range. The extra speed is good for longer range, not close range punch apparently.

http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/gtr152


the Alaska Game Department is highly flawed because the authors were mathematical idiots. And maybe just idiots.

1. The authors got the formula for an ellipse wrong, resulting in a calculated expansion that was 4x greater than it should be, and erroneously skewed the results in favor of expanding bullets regardless of their initial or final diameters.

2. The authors don’t seem know the difference between “retained bullet weight” and “percent retained bullet weight”, or between “bullet expansion” and “percent bullet expansion”.

Using the author’s methodology, the .224” bullet would score 100 in both retained weight and expansion, while the .458” bullet would score 64 and 90 respectively. These interim scores are then multiplied together (along with those for striking energy and penetration, which we will ignore for now) to achieve a final score. Hence the .224” bullet scores 10,000 while the .458” bullet scores 5,760, or a little over half what the .224” bullet scores in these categories. The author’s methodology resulted in silly stuff like a 7x57 Mauser with a 175 grain bullet with a retained weight of 91g outscoring a 12 gauge 438g slug with a retained weight of 420g, even though the slug out-penetrated the 7mm bullet.

It seems to me that it would make much more sense to compare retained weight in grains, not percent, and bullet expansion in inches instead of percent, and base the scores accordingly. In this manner, the .224 scores 55 and .448, which combine to form a score of 25.19, while the .458” bullet scores 364 and .75, for a combined score of 273. I think most of us would agree the .45-70 is more likely to be 10 times more effective than a .22-250 for the purposes cited, rather than half as effective, so this methodology at least passes the laugh test.

I redid the report's table of cartridges using the correct formula for an ellipse and added a column where the measured parameters were ADDed rather than multiplied, but included the multiplied results for comparison with the original report and the ADDed column of results. Contrary to the Alaska Game report, 16 of the top 18 results involved a .458" bullet. A .375" bullet came in at numbers 11 and 18.


Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.

A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.