bsa, thanks for that info i know the 5 digit value. As far as shooting, I have always been a believer in first shot accuracy. Before deer season I always shoot a shot to confirm POA & POI on separate days, this year was a 1/2 POI with a hand load Barnes 130 TTSX, Some years, little more some little less, Am seriously thinking of replacing my old Illuminator 3x9 Redfield with a Leupold VXII 2x7 that weighs 10.5 ozs and that would get me down to 7.10 lbs.or so. I hunt mostly open fields and pastures and seldom take over a 300 yd shot and the Leupold is on a varmint rig now that have taken coyotes at last light with it, In fact, it is somewhat better in gathering light than the Redfield. Will see. Not having any luck finding any thing on classified and will be paying heavy price for a few ozs I know.