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Re: Religion? [Re: wabigoon] #15956604 03/30/21
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What always happens in these discussions is that Christians just throw a lot of Bible verses at you as if that proves anything. The Biblle is what is in question. Trusting it as proof of itself is like asking the accused person at a trial if he committed the crime and then letting his answer be the only thing that decides the outcome of the case. What do you think the defendent is going to say? Likewise naturally the text of the Bible is going to present itself as absolute truth. But here is the concept that Christians cannot seem to grasp. For starters with the Bible you are not putting your faith in God. First and foremost you are putting your faith in the people who wrote the Bible. People who lived 2000 years ago that you don't know from Adam's house cat. And who were these people? Superstitious goat herders that thought the earth was flat and that witches actually exist. People that I can assure you knew faaaaar less about the true nature of the universe than you or I. That is who you are first putting your faith in that the Bible is the word of God. And that is the big honking weak link in the chain.

And the passion with which people believe something is no evidence of it's validity either. There are about 4300 religions on this planet. The people of these religions believe them fervantly and think they are on the one true path to god. But simple deductive logic tells you that 4299 of them have to be wrong. And if 4299 of them can be wrong (as they surely are) then all 4300 can be as well.

BP-B2

Re: Religion? [Re: BRISTECD] #15956605 03/30/21
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Originally Posted by BRISTECD
A lot of people believe you choose Heaven or Hell. That’s isn’t really true - no sane person would ever choose Hell and torment in a lake of fire. Even is you think it is a fairytale, you aren’t going to deliberately choose Hell. What you are really choosing is your sin over God’s forgiveness. You are saying “nah, I don’t need that, I’m good and I like to do what I like to do”. Christians on the other hand, recognize they are sinners and simply ask God’s forgiveness which comes through faith in what Christ did when he was crucified and rose again.
Personally, if you don’t want forgiveness, that’s on you and nobody else. The Gospel has been presented numerous times on this forum. I’m not going to argue the point anymore. I’ll pray for some, but I can’t make anyone believe anything.


Oh but they do. Either HE is a liar or man is. HE says they can look around and see HIS presence by what HE created. I can look around and see the evidence of HIM in HIS creation so i know others can too, unless they refuse to and thus refuse HIM. Refusing to is a choice. Its refusing Him, which is choosing hell.

Last edited by jaguartx; 03/30/21.

Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.

DONT BE GETTING ANY CORONA ON YA

"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".

I Dindo Nuffin
Re: Religion? [Re: BRISTECD] #15956611 03/30/21
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Originally Posted by BRISTECD
One last point. For a Christian, life on this earth, no matter how bad, is as bad as it is ever going to get. For an unbeliever, this life is as good as it is ever going to get.


Amen.


Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.

DONT BE GETTING ANY CORONA ON YA

"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".

I Dindo Nuffin
Re: Religion? [Re: ingwe] #15956632 03/30/21
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Originally Posted by ingwe
Originally Posted by Leanwolf

Wondering. Have any of you ever wondered just what a soul that goes to Heaven does when it gets there? Do souls eat and if so, is there a central dining hall for all heavenly souls? What kind of food is served and how often? Does a soul sleep and if so, where? Does a soul have its own house, apartment, condo, cabin, etc.? Or is there just one gigantic barracks where all souls sleep? Do Heavenly souls get together with the souls of loved ones who also went to Heaven? Do souls not do much but walk around on golden streets in long white robes playing golden harps throughout eternity? Other questions but these'll do.

Just wondering.

L.W.



I'm really curious about this too.


And, of course, if believers dont know everything HE knows, and if believers know HIM, then of course, by logic, there is no HIM.

Wrong.

Do you know your doctor or lowyer? Yes. Do you know all he knows? No. Is ne real? Yes.

When you were a child and looked forward to your birthday party or Christmas, did you know what all you were going to get or how wonderful it would be? Or, did your parents want to surprise you the way HE must want to surprise us, HIS kids. Created in HIS image.

I may someday have breakfast on Mars and lunch on Saturn. I may hunt quail a whole month with all my previous bird dogs.

No, i dont know, but im pretty dang sure it will be better than the alternative.

If it werent so, HE would have gained nothing by telling us so. Do you lie to your childern?

Last edited by jaguartx; 03/30/21.

Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.

DONT BE GETTING ANY CORONA ON YA

"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".

I Dindo Nuffin
Re: Religion? [Re: mauserand9mm] #15956647 03/30/21
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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by ingwe
Originally Posted by Leanwolf

Wondering. Have any of you ever wondered just what a soul that goes to Heaven does when it gets there? Do souls eat and if so, is there a central dining hall for all heavenly souls? What kind of food is served and how often? Does a soul sleep and if so, where? Does a soul have its own house, apartment, condo, cabin, etc.? Or is there just one gigantic barracks where all souls sleep? Do Heavenly souls get together with the souls of loved ones who also went to Heaven? Do souls not do much but walk around on golden streets in long white robes playing golden harps throughout eternity? Other questions but these'll do.

Just wondering.

L.W.



I'm really curious about this too.


It'll be worship 24/7, anything less just doesn't show sufficient gratitude for eternal salvation (no free ride)


Youre a liar. The greatest gift anyone could ever have is totally free. And that gift is perfect because that greatest gift of everlasting life will be free of liars like thee. grin


Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.

DONT BE GETTING ANY CORONA ON YA

"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".

I Dindo Nuffin
IC-A

Re: Religion? [Re: BRISTECD] #15956659 03/30/21
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Originally Posted by BRISTECD
Originally Posted by Sauer200
Originally Posted by BRISTECD
One last point. For a Christian, life on this earth, no matter how bad, is as bad as it is ever going to get. For an unbeliever, this life is as good as it is ever going to get.



Please prove this bold statement.



If you won’t believe me now, what makes you think you would believe if I showed you?

Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.


Truth.


Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.

DONT BE GETTING ANY CORONA ON YA

"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".

I Dindo Nuffin
Re: Religion? [Re: jaguartx] #15956667 03/30/21
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Originally Posted by jaguartx
Originally Posted by BRISTECD
Originally Posted by Sauer200
Originally Posted by BRISTECD
One last point. For a Christian, life on this earth, no matter how bad, is as bad as it is ever going to get. For an unbeliever, this life is as good as it is ever going to get.



Please prove this bold statement.



If you won’t believe me now, what makes you think you would believe if I showed you?

Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.


Truth.


Proof?

Re: Religion? [Re: strikeu] #15956668 03/30/21
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Originally Posted by strikeu
Originally Posted by efw
Originally Posted by RickyD
Yep, there is a big difference between religion and relationship. Kinda like having a backstage pass instead the cheap seats in the nose bleed section.


In the case of Christianity those who have a relationship with our Lord get to observe His invitation to feast on His flesh and drink His blood, and be washed of wine by the waters of baptism on His account, all of which are recognized as intimately real evidence of His love AND religious in their nature.

A twofer.


what does that even mean?? that is the most bibled up gobbledygook crap. I heard that kind of stuff my whole life, sitting in the 3rd pew every freaking service the church had...and I'm thinking, what does this stuff even MEAN?

that was 40 years ago and It still sounds like some gobbledygook that someone made up to get the attention of people who would cough up money to hear it.


Now youre on track. Yep. Gobbeldy gook. Gods a gitten alla thet money an stickin it in tha bank i tell ya. Needs ta by hima nother uni verse. Heza fleecin tha suckers.


Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.

DONT BE GETTING ANY CORONA ON YA

"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".

I Dindo Nuffin
Re: Religion? [Re: wabigoon] #15956680 03/30/21
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I believe that Jesus is God and that He became man and died for my sins and the sins of all others who will but accept the offer of free salvation by belief in Him. I accepted His offer and am saved. Jesus died but then rose from the dead, defeating the powers of hell and death and now lives forever and ever. Amen.


MAGAA!
Re: Religion? [Re: wabigoon] #15956686 03/30/21
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There is no work that man can do which will earn his way into heaven. To get there, one must accept Jesus' free offer and believe in Jesus unto faith in Him. My belief itself was a free gift from God and I have faith I am saved. There is only one way, God's way.


MAGAA!
IC-B

Re: Religion? [Re: jaguartx] #15956707 03/30/21
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Originally Posted by jaguartx
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by ingwe
Originally Posted by Leanwolf

Wondering. Have any of you ever wondered just what a soul that goes to Heaven does when it gets there? Do souls eat and if so, is there a central dining hall for all heavenly souls? What kind of food is served and how often? Does a soul sleep and if so, where? Does a soul have its own house, apartment, condo, cabin, etc.? Or is there just one gigantic barracks where all souls sleep? Do Heavenly souls get together with the souls of loved ones who also went to Heaven? Do souls not do much but walk around on golden streets in long white robes playing golden harps throughout eternity? Other questions but these'll do.

Just wondering.

L.W.



I'm really curious about this too.


It'll be worship 24/7, anything less just doesn't show sufficient gratitude for eternal salvation (no free ride)


Youre a liar. The greatest gift anyone could ever have is totally free. And that gift is perfect because that greatest gift of everlasting life will be free of liars like thee. grin


Yeah I made that up, but where's your proof otherwise? With so many wild claims of your beliefs, and proclaiming them as truth, yet you have no proof - doesn't that make you a liar?

Re: Religion? [Re: wabigoon] #15956732 03/30/21
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I was really headed towards being an atheist, but all the atheists cramming all their unbeliever crap down my throat has really turned me from beimg an atheist. You guys really pissed me off cramming your unreligious crap on me, so i just decided im going to be a bliever instead.
Really. Its alls ur fault. U didit. Aint on me. I tried to warn you. Beg me r ill doit. Ok. That settles it.

To hell with yall. Im A Believer As of Now.

Last edited by jaguartx; 03/30/21.

Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.

DONT BE GETTING ANY CORONA ON YA

"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".

I Dindo Nuffin
Re: Religion? [Re: strikeu] #15956744 03/30/21
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Originally Posted by strikeu
Originally Posted by wabigoon
I'll just Trust in The Lord.

when people say this....especially when they refer to some noteworthy or important life event that needs or requires significant effort, they say "well..I'm just going to turn it over to the lord and let him lead me and it's in his hands" (Translate)- PhuQ this, I'm tired of trying and I give up, and if this (event) turns to total horse-Schite then my smugness with religion should persuade anyone watching that I gave it my all...Losers
I have a feeling that this post suffers a good bit in its "translation".


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Re: Religion? [Re: CCCC] #15956746 03/30/21
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Originally Posted by CCCC
Originally Posted by strikeu
Originally Posted by wabigoon
I'll just Trust in The Lord.

when people say this....especially when they refer to some noteworthy or important life event that needs or requires significant effort, they say "well..I'm just going to turn it over to the lord and let him lead me and it's in his hands" (Translate)- PhuQ this, I'm tired of trying and I give up, and if this (event) turns to total horse-Schite then my smugness with religion should persuade anyone watching that I gave it my all...Losers
I have a feeling that this post suffers a good bit in its "translation".


Hahaha!

No kidding.

Re: Religion? [Re: CCCC] #15956748 03/30/21
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Originally Posted by CCCC
Originally Posted by strikeu
Originally Posted by wabigoon
I'll just Trust in The Lord.

when people say this....especially when they refer to some noteworthy or important life event that needs or requires significant effort, they say "well..I'm just going to turn it over to the lord and let him lead me and it's in his hands" (Translate)- PhuQ this, I'm tired of trying and I give up, and if this (event) turns to total horse-Schite then my smugness with religion should persuade anyone watching that I gave it my all...Losers
I have a feeling that this post suffers a good bit in its "translation".


No, no it's accurate. For the longest time people lived a crappy existence that they had no control over, and a pleasant afterlife was the only thing that they had to look forward to, so they fell onto religion. At least then they could make some effort at something and be seen to be doing something. The churches were able to make profit out of this too - so it was a win-win.

Re: Religion? [Re: wabigoon] #15956775 03/30/21
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Almost caught religion once, thankfully the Doctor gave me some of that yellar soap, and it went away.

Re: Religion? [Re: Rickshaw] #15957085 03/31/21
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Originally Posted by Rickshaw


I’ve learned there are rules of biblical interpretation that must be consistent. My take on John 6, is that it doesn’t necessarily need to apply in interpreting 1 Cor.11. But, Jesus being the bread of life and giving himself ties together. But cannibalism is not what he’s talking about. I think Jesus point is summed up in “I’m the bread of life” which refers to eternal spiritual life. So, I do believe in a spiritual realm, but won’t claim to have a full handle on it. Spirituality isn’t necessarily mystical, but too often is made so. The scriptures are not all literal. But they are true given proper interpretation.

I’m not making claims to be the best interpreter. I have no formal education towards that.

I think you’re saying that Jesus body and blood are spiritually present in the communion elements. Would that detract from the once for all sacrifice of Christ like transubstantiation?

Sorry, I do this from my phone and it’s hard to dialogue and communicate well.


No need to apologize I genuinely appreciate your response and the spirit with which it is offered.

Thanks for the engagement it’s responses like these that I appreciate most. I’m thinking through some things and enjoy being able to bounce things off of people who are open to dialog on these topics.

Grace & peace to you and yours sir!


Don't you ever wonder why
In spite of all that's wrong here
There's still so much that goes so right
And beauty abounds?

The thunder rolls and the baby sighs
And the rain comes down
Don't you wanta thank someone for this?
-Andrew Peterson
Re: Religion? [Re: gunner500] #15957095 03/31/21
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Originally Posted by gunner500
Originally Posted by EdM
Exactly why I did not return a call request with Wabi. Just finish a stir and start another. Rick needs a place for such threads and I believe he once had one...


Damn right they had one Ed, it was a cluster fu-k extraordinaire! if peace, love and light are so true, pure and available, how is it nothing but a constant stinking bullshlt sandwich?

I'll tell ya how, weak little beta men demanding others think the way they do because they haven't the testicular fortitude to have accomplished enough in life that others can SEE and FOLLOW!...........................fu-k faith, look right here, you can see it!


I like and respect both you guys a lot; I greatly enjoy your contributions to discussions you’re interested in on the fire so I don’t mean this with any disrespect at all.

Almost every day I check in and see what’s being discussed here on the fire. There are topics that I enjoy talking about, some I enjoy reading about, some in which I have no interest at all, and others that I know are going to go in a direction I don’t like. I make a choice to open or not open them and to participate or not participate based upon that analysis. I don’t need Rick to “banish” topics or people I don’t like I just don’t read their input or engage them.

Just my method of dealing with the issues you raise. Take it or leave it but I hope you don’t take offense.


Don't you ever wonder why
In spite of all that's wrong here
There's still so much that goes so right
And beauty abounds?

The thunder rolls and the baby sighs
And the rain comes down
Don't you wanta thank someone for this?
-Andrew Peterson
Re: Religion? [Re: jaguartx] #15957121 03/31/21
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Originally Posted by jaguartx
Originally Posted by BRISTECD
A lot of people believe you choose Heaven or Hell. That’s isn’t really true - no sane person would ever choose Hell and torment in a lake of fire. Even is you think it is a fairytale, you aren’t going to deliberately choose Hell. What you are really choosing is your sin over God’s forgiveness. You are saying “nah, I don’t need that, I’m good and I like to do what I like to do”. Christians on the other hand, recognize they are sinners and simply ask God’s forgiveness which comes through faith in what Christ did when he was crucified and rose again.
Personally, if you don’t want forgiveness, that’s on you and nobody else. The Gospel has been presented numerous times on this forum. I’m not going to argue the point anymore. I’ll pray for some, but I can’t make anyone believe anything.


Oh but they do. Either HE is a liar or man is. HE says they can look around and see HIS presence by what HE created. I can look around and see the evidence of HIM in HIS creation so i know others can too, unless they refuse to and thus refuse HIM. Refusing to is a choice. Its refusing Him, which is choosing hell.

Agree Jag👍


Romans 5:1
Re: Religion? [Re: wabigoon] #15957146 03/31/21
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