Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting Max range for a 10X scope?

I recently assembled a DIY pre-fit 308, my second very similar 308, so I decided to make this one a bit different by going with a scope unlike anything I've used in the past (all scopes are some form of Duplex, SFP), the new scope is a Leupold Mark 4HD 2.5-10x42, FFP, PR1-MOA, non-illuminated (the FFP & MOA are new to me). I've only had the scope/rifle to the range once and it was just to dial it in and check rifle for accuracy, did not check tracking by any means. Much to my surprise, the rifle liked the Hornady Spire Point 165s the best at .291" three-shot, the match ammo was .437".

To my question, I like this scope but have not used it for hunting, some same non-illuminated, FFP not so great for hunting, can't say myself but I'm most interested in what would be considered max range for a 10x scope, speaking target here, not live game (that to come later with practice, dialing for MOA and MOA trajectory confirmation).

I've heard all sorts of ideas/formulas, such at 1x per 100 yards, etc...

That also depends on the reticle and the type/size of target.

Let's say a 10" target with this reticle.

I`ve found 10x suites me to 1k and change.

Remember, magnification magnifies everything, to include your heart beat, shakes, unsteady rest, conditions, etc.

Learned that lesson years ago shooting HP at 6,8,9, and1k, any rifle, any sight, prone with sling. (I was to my eye, rock steady with my irons) At 20x I could not hold the x ring at 6. That plays with your brain.

If the "glass" is up to it the center of that reticle will bracket that pretty nicely at 500 yards.

I get that! "irons" are out for me these days, vision not what it once was. I see "competitive" shooters with lots of Xs on their scopes, I'm wondering how they take advantage of all that magniification?

Having a low power scope to hide heartbeat doesn't mean it isn't there still. I shot NX8 4-32 on both my LR rifles and subscribe to the saying aim small shoot small. Ask 1,000 BRor F- Class guys why they shoot the power they do.
I would rather haver the power and not need it and need it and not have it, if you can shoot say a 24x scope at 500 then a 10x I bet you pick the 24× variable as long as clarity and reticle are equal

True, but not seeing it helps to avoid a bad feedback loop.

I shoot my NX8 on 28x at 665 during load development and with the small dot I can center it up on a 3" black circle with a 2" white one on top of it, try that with most low power scopes not happening.

Formula One racing vs. grocery getting.

Horses for courses.

Max distance for a given magnification depends on two things: your ability to resolve the POA, and reticle subtension versus target size. You need to be able to see the target in the image, and you need to be able to see the aiming point behind the reticle. I can make 10x magnification work well beyond 1000 yards, if everything else is in place (optical quality, target size, reticle).

Seeing it tells you you better control it or learn how

There is absolutely no reason to not be able to shoot small or grocery get unless your a minute of deer or elk guy and that's whats wrong with LR hunting.
Both my LR guns are grocery getter but will also shoot small, right tools for the job.

A couple of years ago, for kicks I shot a practical rifle match with a SWFA 10x just to prove that you don’t have to spend thousands on a scope to be able to compete. I placed 2nd overall.

I’m not saying that it’s ideal for LR precision shooting, but you can do some pretty decent and precise work with a 10x, depending on target, reticle, and glass.

Doesn't matter to me, I want everything stacked in my favor. I'm also looking for better than decent.
I dont compete but when I started gettinging into LR about 20 years ago I figured out quick my 3x9 Leupolds weren't gonna cut it.

For a dedicated LR rig, I’m with you. But for a LR hunting rifle, there are downsides to high magnification and the scope package it comes in.

That's why I have a variables, take a 10 power scope set up a 5" Bull at 1,000 can you see it? My bet is not a 10x scope out there you can center up on it.
So how do you really know how well your gun shoots if you can't hold center on a Bull on whatever target your shooting at

Like I posted earlier i would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
Theres one thing I also learned you need every advantage you can get that includes good equipment, the right equipment, good shooting guns (.5 moa) minimum at the furthest distance you intend on shooting

By quartering the target. No need to hold hard on a 5” Bull at 1000 for BG hunting.

You never answered my question how do you know how well your gun shoots doing load development if you can't even hold center or close to a 5" in circle on a paper target? You have easily induced 3-4" of error in your groups

There are disadvantages to higher magnification ranges such as compromised ER, FOV, eye box, scope length, scope weight, etc. It’s a trade-off, and achieving the right balance of scope characteristics is individual.

First, I did answer. Second, I can certainly resolve a 5” circle on paper at 1000 yards using a 10x scope with good glass. I don’t do load development at 1000, but I do shoot groups at that range.

There are disadvantages to higher magnification ranges such as compromised ER, FOV, eye box, scope length, scope weight, etc. It’s a trade-off, and achieving the right balance of scope characteristics is individual.[/
You keep going to the disadvantages of higher magnification as a disadvantage well doesn't a variable negate all that? I know one thing for certain theres alot more advantages to having something like atleast a 24x variable than disadvantages

I guess I challenge anybody who thinks a 10x scope is all you need put up s 5" bull on a 1,000 target ant see how man times you can hit it or exactly how your shooting.
After all 5" is .5 moa at 1,000 or 2.5" at 500.

Just be honest and prove it to yourself you have true .5 moa equipment to whatever yardage you wanna shoot with a 10x scope.
My money says there will be some eye opening about the .5 moa rifles people claim with 10x

No, it doesn’t.

Maybe for you and your preference, but that balance of tradeoffs is different for different people. Individual visual acuity even enters the equation.

I compete in PRS patches and my preferred default magnification is 15x. My comp scopes go up to 25x and 32x, but I would never put those scopes on my LR hunting rifles. The LR hunting rigs get 3-9x and 3-12x scopes with well-designed reticles. The reticle design makes a huge difference.

You're putting words into peoples' mouths.

If it’s 0.5 MOA precision that you’re worried about, then distance is irrelevant. I have shot plenty of sub-0.5 MOA groups with 10x or less.

Again, if you can resolve your POA and your reticle allows a consistent hold relative to the POA, then you’re golden regardless of magnification.

What higher magnification allows you to do is resolve a smaller POA.

So your telling me you can shoot 5" round bulls at 1 000 with a 10x scope

Again, you're putting words in the mouths of others.

Aren’t we talking about hunting elk?

I'm talking hunting in general, our hunting season is deer and elk at the same time.
The point of all this is how much error are you allowing yourself because God knows out in the field things are different. Heart rate from hiking, ive seen people get terrible buck fever etc

Ok. What in the world are you hunting that you can’t resolve the target with 10x?

What about when you go antelope hunting gonna mount a different scope?

Shot plenty of Antelope with less than 10x

O.k clue me in on " resolve " if you mean by getting close I'll pass.

At what distances

I was shooting gophers past 350 yards Saturday with a fixed 6x scope without issue.
It’s OK to have extra power, but not as big a deal as some think it might be.

Like I said people need to try it on target first, there's way more that can't than can with that low of power.
Pathfinder if you and Jordan are capable at long distance with a 10 x then more power to you because I know for a fact there more that can't than can

What words am I putting if you can't see a 5" bull how can you hit it, Right

He didn't say he was shooting at a 1/2 moa round bull to shoot a 1/2 moa group.

Exactly, then how can you have a .5moa rifle if you can't hold .5 moa.
Like everything thing else here it turns into an argument, like Jordan said its not ideal im gonna go out there with every advantage I can I owe the animal that.
Don't take this post wrong Jordan 90% can't shoot .5 moa groups at 1,000 with a 10x scope you know and so do I.
O consider myself pretty fair shot and I doudt i could especially the older you get the higher power helps.

You don't have to aim at a half moa spot to shoot a half moa group.

You also can't shoot small if you can't aim small, post those .5 moa groups up at 1,000 mathman with your 10x scope

Putting words again.

I think Mr, Sherm might learn a bit about 10X scopes if he would just take a quick trip from Havre to Glascow and ask Pat Sinclair ( Secnarshooter ) for a demo with a S&B 10X PM II. I'm betting Jordan might be able to provide the same learning experience.

This is an old discussion here in the LR forum

Sherm is right and that’s exactly what I do

If I’m shooting a target or an animal at LR, I want the highest power my scope provides.

Most of the time, I’m at max power and I don’t have problems finding the target in the scope because I know how to point a rifle with my naked eye first

Every big game animal I’ve shot at long range has been the scope’s max power. And that means 20 to 25X

🎯

My hunting rifles’ reticle is .18MOA thick, I can quarter a 5” target @ 1K. I didn’t actually measure it, but this is 3 shots @ 500yds with a 7.25# all-up rifle. Kimber Montana 1:8 Lilja @ 22” w/2.5-10x42 NXS w/IHR reticle. 270Win w/140 Badlands @ 3075.

Gotta be pretty darned close to 1/2MOA.

Never stated that X's aren't good but said a lot can be done with a good quality 10X

I have a Mark 5 HD 7-35X on a 7mm Mashburn

It’s a 10X scope when I want it to be

I'm happy for you.

Thank you. I want you to be happy

I killed an elk with one shot at 892 yards with a 19 oz scope set on 9x.

I killed a coyote at 942 yards with one shot with a 14 oz scope set on 9x.

Inside every Leupold Mk5 7-35x is a 33 oz 10x scope. Not something that I’m interested in backpacking 10 miles into the mountains and then up and down mountains every day chasing rams. A 18 or 20 oz 3-9x or 10x is a different animal, and just as capable of killing rams at 600+. Scope choice is a balance of trade-offs that will depend on individual uses, applications, and preferences. Plenty of good and capable options to suit.

That's a nice looking rig!

Inside every Leupold Mk5 7-35x is a 33 oz 10x scope! Touche!

Someone help me out here.

There's a lot of talk about the difficulty of resolving a 1/2 moa target at 1000 yds with a quality 10X scope. Is it really that difficult?

I have not shot at 1000. Nor have I much experience with quality optics. A VX 3i 3.5-10 along with a Super Chicken 10X are my finest scopes. I have several VX 2s in 3-9x40.

None of them have failed to resolve a 1 inch target dot at 300 yds for me. Heck, when it was my only rifle, I zeroed on the same 1 inch dot with a 30-06 and a Weaver V-7 at 300 yds.

Of course atmospherics will have a distinct affect at extended distance.

257bob,

In your original post it appears you are at CMP Talladega, not many places have Kongsberg targets.

If so did you shoot on the 600 yard range? How clear was the X on the targets?

I am shooting a 4.5 power scopes in competition out to 600 yards. One is a March and one is a Leupold HD with .75 and .5 minute dots respectively for the reticle.

At 600 yards I can clearly see a 2 1/2” diameter value marker and the X in the center of the target. I would think it would be a chip shot with a 10 power scope.

Good afternoon, I was shooting at a new public (county owned) range, really state of the art, in Thomasville GA but limited to 100 yards, at least for now. The K'berg targets are great, no walking back and forth or need for a spotting scope. This scope, Leupold Mark 4HD is make for dialing but have not shot it beyond 100 or dialed beyond original sight-in so it's "unproved" at this point but I do like it quite a bit.

What type of aim points do the Kongsberg targets allow besides a round bullseye?

I have only shot High Power target faces in Kongsberg, however their newer systems allow for animal targets.


https://www.kongsbergtargets.com/hunting/

Good but expensive targets.

The Silver Mountain E-Target allow for animal targets also.

It will work beautifully for targets this size:

That is something a lot of these stupid mother fu ckers don't think about. Good post.

They won't take you up on your "challenge". Trust me. I'd use my NF ATACR 7-35x56... Just sayin. Jordan likes to think he knows a little about this schidt. A 10x scope is at a disadvantage for hitting small targets at both 500 and 1,000 yards. Trust me on this one..

You were talking about a 10x SWFA earlier. Is that really "good" glass. Asking for a friend..

I agree.

Show me where I said otherwise.

Yes. Good, not great, but good enough to get a lot of LR work done.

Aren’t you frequently posting pictures of 0.5 MOA groups you shot with a Burris 3-9x at 500 yards?

As long as you can consistently resolve your aiming point, 0.5 MOA capability is 0.5 MOA capability. In the last few days, I used 9x to shoot a few groups that went way sub-0.5 MOA, while aiming at a POA that was ~0.5 MOA.

Here’s another “stupid mother fu cker” that won’t take up a challenge.

Trust me on this!

Wouldn't hold my breath waiting on a BSA follow through!
Just sayin, ha ha.

I definitely wont be holding my breath.

Trust me on this one.

TOUGH crowd. Have some compassion,she's STILL trying to get 108's in her fhuqking 6x45 upper. Hint.



Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............

Didn't Hathcock make his legendary 50 BMG shot with a 10X?

Did he know you can't possibly make those shots with a 10x?

He must notta had the interwebs to keep him honest.

In the book I thought he used an 8X Unertal

The original question was:

My answer would be out to 800 to maybe 1000 yards. The reticle looks good (if I looked up the correct one) it is .2 MOA Dot. The accuracy of the rifle and ability to read wind will be bigger factors.

I like doing load development at 300 yards. Far enough to see what is going on and not far enough to have too many wind induced bad shots.

Those things being said would a 24 power be better at 1000 yards? Shooting targets, absolutely. Same holds true for 100 yards or 200 yards also. With quality glass and proper reticles I will always take higher magnification for targets. No different than using a sling in High Power vs using a rest in F-Class. You will shoot better on a rest.

My view on hunting is a little different, lighter scopes are little better I guess, and even though I regularly shoot long distance I limit myself to around 500 yards on game.

First picture is iron sights at 600 yards with a .308 bolt gun. After the first record shot (or two) the last 18 or 19 are sub 2 MOA. This was shot using a sling no rest. Windy day, had trouble bracketting the wind.

The second picture is a 4.5 power scope on a service rifle. Again sub 2 MOA and had I paid a little more attention to my position (shot 9) and the wind (shot 18) it would have been much smaller. No sighters (EIC) match with 12X's. This was shot with a sling. Wind not too bad, but switchy.

I don't shoot my 6MMBR and 24 power scope much anymore, but with it the group would definitely tighten up
If I would take the 6BR and put it on a rest with the 24 power scope it would be easy sub moa at 600 yards on 20 shots.

The point is the better the equipment, the better the magnification, the better the rest you will shoot better at any range.
But that does not mean a 10 power scope will not work well at 600 or 800 yards, or further.

An 8x?

what was he thinking!?!?!?!?!

Thanks for posting Mike. Just for discussions sake, not seeing much difference in vertical between scope vs. irons in those two groups. Toss out the worst two for elevation on each group and the irons group may even hold vertical better. Horizontal is a variable due to different wind conditions. Nice shooting for both.

The 6 and 10 SS’s work dandy for me. I’ve done quite decent with both of them. Decent glass and a great reticle help alot. I’ve never ran out of hunting light with the 6x either.

Weaponry. "Hathcock generally used the standard sniper rifle: the Winchester Model 70 chambered for . 30-06 Springfield cartridges, with the standard 8-power Unertl scope."

With the scoped service rifle I had 12 X's vs 6 with the iron sighted match rifle. At times I focus a little too much on X-count. In reality one more click left from the start would have given me a 199 on the iron sights.

My first eight shots with the service rifle had less than a minute elevation difference. Position broke down slightly and I shot a high 10 and instead of fixing it, forced a 9 in there. I got up adjusted everything, dry fired and went back to shooting a 10.7 and then another 6 Xs in a row. I have to do a better job of fixing position issues before they become a problem. SD with the service rifle is around 13 to 15. In general I seem to hold position better with the match rifle, better sling and the rifle is more adjustable.

Also while my service rifle is accurate, that 308 is a hammer. Ken Porter built it, he holds the NRA 1000 yard record for irons, 200-17. One of the Arizona guys shot a 200-17 also but Porter beat him on the tie breaker for the record.

First 10 on the above string.

Thanks for the insights, I don't shoot scopes in prone competition, so I have no personal comparisons make, just comparing your vertical spreads. I hear what you say on position break downs. It's hard to force yourself to stop shooting , get up and re-build you position during a match. I had to do just that during the last 1000 yard string at SWN this year. Starting up again without sighters is really just a mental block sort of thing... I cleaned the reminder of the shots, but like your string above the damage was already done at that point.

Sounds like your .308 is keeper! I knew Oliver's 200- 19x record was a tie with someone else, but it was fired at the Santa Fe Long Range Regional in 2018. No shootoff though, Ken's record was from an earlier match somewhere.

Checking back to see if the BullShitArtist came back for the deabate.

My monies on Jordan.

Just saying!

BSA must be looking for that 1000 yard target he promised to post last June. As per usual.

Ken shot the 200-19X at Bayou in Houston. I assume the NRA used some tie breaker and if IIRC it would be where the one 10 was in the string. Hell of a thing to shoot an 200-19 and have an 10 late in the string and not own the record.

Amazing shooting by both.

I follow what you are saying now. I am used to hearing that referred to as being "Creedmoored". I'll ask him. Didn't know that applied to records, only winning/placements for an individual match.