Anyone got an example on why running top shelf scope glass is an advantage?

Go

🦫

Nope.

Hunting is all about finding game and getting close.

Alpha glass is for shooters, not hunters.

Someone can be both and have different types of rifles and scopes for different purposes.

Beav, my woods Guns get glass that sees better in the dark since it seems dark in the woods and especially at last light when deer tend to move most.

The rifles for our west get scopes that track and are able to dial. I’ve never ran out of light before the end of legal time out west.

In the East is where the really nice glass shines in my opinion and I’m not dialing on most any of them either. They’re set and forget zeroed for sensible ranges.

Copy that, Scotty...Make sense.

🦫

Any thoughts on running better glass if hunting public land vs. private land ?

🦫

Deer are out there all day. You don't have to shoot them in the dark nor do you have to sit on your ass waiting for them to move.

It's up to you.

I shot deer for years with 3rd tier glass, but now that I can somewhat afford it, I do like the better glass.

Reliability is what matters to me. Heck, I'll happily hunt with peep sights and a top tier binocular. Great glass is a must for me in binoculars. For a scope, I just want to bullet to go where the crosshairs are pointed.

I have enjoyed using good glass for many years be it rifle scopes or binos, more than once I've been able to shoot an elk or deer at first light that with my lesser scoped rifles might have not ended the way I wanted.
I don't dial and the price range of my "good" scopes are between $500 and $1000, after that I'm not sure if I could appreciate the difference but to my eyes my Zeiss, Kahles or Swaro scopes are well worth the extra cost over a VX 3 or the like.

I killed multiple deer every season with iron sights for many years. Some in excess of 200 yards and some on the run. Though a scope does offer advnatages over iron sights, they're still not mandatory for my success. I'll fill my tags with or without.

If you can't see it clearly you can't shoot it accurately whether it be from distance, Mirage, or Darkness

Nope…. I’m intrigued where you’re going though.




Same here. Which scope do you prefer for your style of killing?

I remember reading an article in Guns Digest that made an big impact on me, about a guide's view of working with clients ( by Jim Zumba?? John Barsness??)

One comment made in that article was the writer/guide would rather see a client show up with a beat up 270 Winchester bolt and a simple 4x scope, than a shiny new magnum rifle and big variable scope, and then have the "magnum rifle hunter" show up with a dinky pair of binoculars.

The writer's / guide's advice was to have the client put the bigger part of their optics budget into the best binocs they could afford, and not into the rifle scope. More time on the hunt was going to be spent using the binocs, not the rifle scope.

This approach struck me hard that made a lot of sense to me. It was an excellent, very enlightening and useful article. Bottom !ine? Alpha glass on the binocs first, decent glass on the rifle scope second.

If you can't see it clearly you can't shoot it accurately whether it be from distance, Mirage, or Darkness
Kind of leads me to a question I've often wondered. I know some guys that say they can't tell the difference between a Zeiss and a Bushnell Banner. I wonder if that's because their eyesight is very good or if it's because it's pouring out they don't get the benefit of the better glass. I think it's the later but

Is there a concise definition for "Alpha Glass?"

You can’t spook the hole, brother.

Laffin

🦫

Is there any differences in spandex panties ?

😝🦫

This is going 10 pages.. I’ll put a beer on it.

There maybe a lot of truth to a guy with a well used rifle, who has hunted his entire life.

Animals should probably fear him.

🦫

Deal 🤝

🦫

That's an interesting question. Glass that some folks find horrible often seems pretty good to me at first blush. I sometimes compare my $500 scopes to my $200 scopes and can't tell a difference. I have also compared much more expensive glass in stores to less expensive glass and can't discern a difference. At 58 my eyesight is about the only thing that hasn't failed me. I still don't need any kind of glasses. The only time I can tell a difference is in very low light or in protracted shooting sessions. My better scopes don't seem to induce eye strain or fatigue after sitting at the bench for a few hours.

I've killed the most while looking through a Leupold Vari-x II 1-4X20 and a Weaver K-2.5 but have taken them with several others from Leupold, Weaver, Bausch&Lomb, Bushnell, Nikon, Tasco and probably some I don't recall.

Is that why we pay a little extra for better glass Paul? All the rest is blister pack Bushnell capable.

What kind of glass you think you need probably depends a lot on where you hunt, how you hunt and what the hunting regulations are. For instance you aren't going to shoot any in the dark here legally as hunting hours are sunrise to sunset.

Not 30 minutes before and after?

Not in NY. Weird huh. I’ve always thought that’s odd myself.

If I was limited that way then several of my hunting scopes would be smaller. Where I am there's a big difference in that 30 minutes.

Is the private a buddies, or high dollar ground?

Buck pics?

I see it somewhat similar to what you paid for the rifle.When that 150gr bullet blows through his lungs,it doesn’t matter if it came from a Sako,or a Mossberg.Or whether you were looking through a Tasco,or a S&B.But I will admit,as I grow older and my eyesight wanes,I appreciate better glass…

Alpha glass....What is it, and who decides what constitutes it ?

Aside from the marketing, hype, and dollar amount. The one constant variable is the individuals eyes.

For every hunter saying this is awesome glass, there is another hunter saying he was looking through a dirty beer mug. Optics have a small margin of middle ground with some people.

To put alpha glass into a proper perspective, it would need to provide enough light gathering and clarity to allow seeing what others, using different glass, wouldn’t be able to distinguish at the same time and distance....Thus, an advantage over another hunter in a competitive hunting environment.

🦫

I haven't shot a buck since 2012, and any pics from those days or before lurk in someone else's files. I have been shooting does and pigs since then and I'm not a camera bug for those.

My comment about the 30 minutes isn't about selling 56mm Euro scopes either. It's about me probably having more trim 1.5-5x20 format scopes than the 6x42 and 3.5-10x40 ones I mostly use.

Love ya man....1920 tonight...

SLM, it could be either...A guy could be hunting with a pard, on private land, and have a friendly “Who kills the best animal, wins rights to make fun of the other forever.

Or, a big money, private land hunt, where seeing the eyelashes may help a hunter decide whether to take the shot or pass, even over the encouragement of the guide saying.....That’s a shooter !

🦫

I hate carrying binos due to the weight and it being just one more thing to break, or forget.

As such, I scan and spot critters with my scope. The bigger the X and clearer it is, the better. I get bummed when my "deer" accidentally turns into a person when I finally get a good sight picture. Better glass gets me there, faster.

I have the right to make fun of friends forever regardless, so I can’t see alpha optics helping any there.

When I’m field judging, eyelashes always play a big role in whether I pull the trigger or not.

You ever seen a mount with short eyelashes? They’re hideous.

Ya, I wish our wardens didn’t wear black and grey.

One sitting down looks a lot like a bear. The last one got a little snippy with me.

I hunt deep hardwoods that are thick and block out the sun. Here in louisiana we have legal shooting times. In my property, you can hardly see approximately 30 before sunset and legal is 30 min after sunset. I've tried all kinds of optics and after talking to those in the know on this site, I picked up a SB polar. Definately alpha glass and wow, what a difference. I can know sit pass legal time without a problem. So in certain cases, like mine, the alpha glass was definately a plus.

Do you see game wardens with any regularity out there ? In 45 years of hunting I've seen a warden exactly twice here. Both times they were in their car waiting next to my truck for me to come out of the woods at dark. Been checked by a warden once while fishing within view of the road too but have never once seen one out in the field/woods.

Beav’, I think it also depends on where you’re hunting.

In state, local, a guy can get by with marginal optics. If he/she is on an out of state hunt, alpha optics are a must.

If you’re local and blow an opportunity at an animal of a life time, all is good, but if it’s an out of state hunt, purgatory.

I've never once missed a shot opportunity with one of my 20mm scopes under our sunrise to sunset regs. In fact, often on my way out of the woods well after legal hours have ended, I've scoped deer I could still have easily shot.

Right !,,,,,Who doesn’t love a long, sexy, pair of eye curtains on a mount.

#MountsMatterInBillingsMT

😝🦫

I have been in spots and situations on my lease where my 20mm had me wishing for my 6x42. Otherwise I'd have more of the small ones because I like the way they handle on a rifle.

Absolutely, agree.

🦫

Nailed it…..

I prefer excellent glass that allows me to spot the electronic wires on the remote decoy deers F&G use to trick those losers who run lesser quality scopes.

#BeaverIsHard2Catch

😝🦫

I’m with you MM, while I like those small optics they don’t cut us any favors in the canopy near dark.

What about you fellas with point restrictions in the East, all binocular work in the woods to verify points?

#oregonoutlawsareBA

I much prefer the little 20mm scopes for here. It's too bad they are becoming extinct.

I think alpha glass matters far more with binos/spotting scopes than rifle scopes, particularly for spot and stalk hunting out west. Having said that, depending on where you’re hunting, the benefit of alpha glass in a scope can make a difference in low light, or long range.

Using a rifle scope to glass for animals goes against the core of basic gun safety…. Please get used to using binos….

I have a Meopta Meostar binocular for doing my looking.

Beav has probably been drinking and everything is blurry…

Great minds there. My little brother just got the latest iteration and man, they aren’t getting worse.

Beav, what is your favorite while you’re hunting for lashes?

I'm also in the Alpha binocular camp. I spend MOST of my time behind the binocular, I spend mere seconds looking through a scope and theres plenty of nice, good, and reliable hunting scopes in an " affordable" price range.

When I bought them I was more flush with cash than I've been in a long while. Nevertheless, when I compared them to Swarovski and Leica and they gave me so much of the performance of the traditional alpha models for so much less I bought the Meostar. That's been a while now and I don't see myself replacing them.

We got my kid some B1 Plus 8’s and they are pretty impressive.

Don’t know if it’s a mind game, or the new coatings, but much better IMO than the B1’s I had a few years ago.

YOU get bummed when yo u scan with your rifle scope and see another hunter in your cross hair???? Do us other hunters a favor...USE BINOCULARS. This is one safe way to avoid a PREVENTABLE HUNTING ACCIDENT.

Please tell us all you were just kidding. This is a teachable moment: DO NOT SCAN WITH YOUR RIFLE SCOPE!

I've got a buddy here that kills more deer than anybody else I know. Probably averages 8-10 per season over the last 10 years. Never seen him carry a pair of bino's and his main rifle is a bone stock Tikka .270 with an old Denver Redfield 3-9 on it.

SOB, wish you would have posted this a few years ago.

Around here it's 30 minutes before or after sunrise/ sunset. Even if you're in a tree stand in a more open area and Deer Run just inside the tree line it can get real dark during legal light. Most of my larger game hunting glass is Zeiss Conquest and Meopta /Cableas instinct.

I sat on a mountain next to my buddy with the same model Swaro high end 10x42’s looking at a moose about 3/4 miles away and until we quit at dark we passed the glass back and forth. The only thing I noticed was his were lighter.

SLM, I have the 10x42 HDs from about 5 years ago, man, they have been slick. I even got a smaller set of 8x32 Meostars for back East in the woods. I also have the big Meopta spotter, can’t see paying more since all three have been excellent.

Probably not much time to mess with bins with that style hunting I’d think.

How’s your buddy kill 8-10 per year in NY? He has special crop damage permits?

We’ve got 8’s, 12’s, 15’s and the spotter, all are pretty good for the money.

Nope. He usually kills 4-5 a year during the regular seasons {bow/gun}, which ends mid Dec., then hunts a special late season on university land {Cornell} that runs the whole month of January. The university gives him 12 additional tags a year. One season 4 or 5 years back he filled all 12 of those university tags but most years he gets sick of killing/dragging/ butchering before he fills them all. He gives a lot of venison to his daughters and other folks who need/want some every year as he and his wife simply can't eat it all.

I'm not a fan of the guys who say you have to spend more on your scope than on your rifle- frankly I think they are full of beans and I have the results to prove it many times over... but I do like decent glass- kind of at the least middle of the road glass on my rifle for those times when I have to shoot across a canyon or into a deep, dark pocket in the forest where I can just barely make out my target so I need all the illumination I can get. The deep dark canyon is pretty self explanatory, but the cross canyon thing caught me off guard. In good daylight I have shot a few animals at "extended" ranges and without decent glass I probably would not have seen the small bush or a small tree branch that was on the bullet path so I could avoid it or wait for the animal to move. Also, sometimes you spot an animal in a group with your binos and then you have to pick that one animal out of the herd while they are milling around and that one is the only legal one in the bunch. Happens a lot in these spike only tag seasons we have here so you need to be careful to identify your target. My Bausch & Lomb and Leupold glass make it pretty easy most of the time regardless of the time or conditions- lesser glass is a crap shoot....

Besides, I'm too cheap to spend the money on "Alpha Glass" when the middle of the road glass has served me so well...

Bob

My first big game animal was a doe antelope, in 1965. I shot it while sighting through a 4x "Great West" scope (looked exactly like the Bushnell Banner on my dad's rifle). Since it was a bright, sunny day on the prairies, I could see the antelope just fine. The same rifle/scope combo accounted for a bull elk at just over 300 yards a bit later in the year. I broke that scope in a fall so I mounted a borrowed 2.5 weaver which looked like the lenses had been cleaned with steel wool. Nonetheless, I was able to see well enough to take several deer and a bear with this combo. I then got drafted so everything was put on hold for a couple of years. The next scope was a new Weaver K-4 which was much better, optically and was equal to the old Great West in that category. Fifty years later, I still have that old K-4 and it still works fine. I also have a bunch of "better" quality scopes. I can honestly say, over the last fifty years, in all kinds of conditions, I have never had a situation where optical clarity was of any consequence whatsoever. I even shot a black bear at night, in a full moon, while using that old K-4.
At 72, my eyes are much more limiting than any optical sighting device. GD

Working on getting shîtty-faced here...

Thinking a Redfield Revolution 3-10x50 is the cats paws.

😬🦫

You wouldn’t know alpha glass if your only good eye (brown) was looking through it before the fart.

Would it make you feel any better, if you knew he was wearing a leopard thong and a feathery red boa ?

😝🦫

This coming from a narrow eyed possum that sucks garbage down his shît filled neck is pretty funny.

🤣😂🦫

I scan with my scope all the time not a big deal.

That fickle little basterd sent you the same pics?

T you said the Leopard print and skinny pants were only for my eyes WTF!!

Here’s a very limited sampling of one by me on a East WT hunt in PA.

Picked up a deer in the early morning that was, if I remember, something like 235 yards away, but there was heavy cover between myself, sitting in a stilt blind, and the deer.

I dropped my bins after I saw the deer and ranged it, going straight to my scope NF SHV 4-16x50 f1. I literally sat on the deers neck and head for what must’ve been 15 minutes waiting for a clear opening through the thickets to see if there was any headgear.

It turned out to be a small, legal buck. I shot it. Blew the left front leg off at the shoulder. It ran straight into the waiting arms of another hunter in our group, who killed it...He was pretty happy.

I’m pumping Pom-poms for glass in a scope, that will allow me to check horns and milkers, if I can’t initially put horns on an animal right away through my bins.

🦫

For my purposes if my Meostar bino won't tell me enough then it isn't a buck I'm shooting.

Dammit. Beavers account got hacked by Wabi

I love milk. LOL.

Oh gotcha ya. I didn’t realize you meant he killed his archery, rifle and ML tags. I was thinking you meant he was able to shoot them all with a rifle. Tracking now.

A lot of the bucks I shoot are in heavy enough cover that I don't get a good look at their antlers or know how many points they have till I'm holding the rack in my hands.

Bins/RF, I’m using Zeiss Victory 10x45 and Leica 10x42 Geovids

Scopes. I really like my NF NXS, SHV scopes. I’m also satisfied with the Zeiss V4 scopes.

🦫

That is a darned perfect scenario.

I’ve taken my best buck with a Schidty 4x M8 Leupold. I could tell he was horned but not a “good” buck, I was in a legal unit for any buck but after that I learned S&B sorta glass doesn’t suck. The deer was 125-150 yards so we’re not talking long distance either.

By the way I never put bins on him, he was moving down a finger and I was looking for a hole in the woods to kill him. Chances are if I had to ID points and then transition to a rifle I wouldn’t have killed him, but I suck as a head hunter next to most.

I hear the Zeiss V4’s are pretty good. I was mighty tempted.

I’m always good for your bail money....Ask Tinny about his secrets for surviving a night in jail.

👊🏽😝🦫

That’s next. The 15x’s that is. Good to hear they aren’t junk.

Yeah, but that’s my bedroom window you’re scanning, you pervert.

😬🦫

That 2 timing man whore !

😂🦫

Alpha glass is almost as important as flat brim hats, tat's and skinny jeans.....
#imagematters

I have an actual hunt situation, and, it isn’t the first time I’ve been in this same position....Bull hunt 2 years ago. Public land 3 mile hike on a closed to vehicle logging road.

Our group heading in at 3:30AM passed a small group of hunters on an upward incline to the top of the mountain. Not a race, but ain’t it’s always a race, depending on the area and with elk on public land ?

Our group of 4 got into position where we wanted to cover a large cut. I saw more headlamps coming up into the area from the lower side of the mountain we were on. Damn, it’s gonna be a busy morning. People were aware of the herd we were going to hunt that morning, obviously.

Before legal shooting, I picked up elk bodies moving in the cut. I couldn’t make out bull from cow in the low light, but, the elk are there.

I watched and counted up 6 elk bodies close to each other in the cut across from me...It was still not legal to shoot. I was able to range off their bodies with my Zeiss 10x45 bins....That allowed me to turn away from the killing grounds, hit my small pocket light, casting light into my cupped hands, so I could see enough to dial the yardage on my scope.

I already had my pack set up on a log for my rifle....I went straight to my NF scope, found the elk bodies, and watched their heads until I was 100% positive I had a bull in my scope.

The second I crushed the bull, the herd busted for the trees. Then shots rang out from below me.

After the dust settled. The group below me said they had missed the two bulls that were running for cover and didn’t even see the herd until they were running balls out.

My group of hunters came down to where I was and my pard who was above me, said he had that group of hunters we had passed coming up the mountain, trying to set up on top of him...He moved them along, but was within earshot of them. My pard said that when I shot, he heard them say Fûuuuuck ! Where’s the elk ?

I’m a believer, that in a competitive, pubic land hunting situation, especially for bull hunting. Having good enough glass on a scope that will let you see horns before, or at least at the same time another hunter who is running alpha bins. Can give you an advantage on making a good shot before another hunter touches off.

🦫

PS

I’ve also been the hunter who had elk shot out from under me, because I didn’t have good enough optics to spot animals.

I learned up real quick.

You jackasses. I leave to test a new powder charge/bullet and I come back to this?

No feathery red boa for this guy anymore. I went straight and wear a loin cloth these days.

Brother, remind me to show you the tattoo on my ass.

😝🦫

After that elk killin story I will have to concede......

It’s just a enter here sign not that impressive on 15x. Hint.

Will I need "alpha" glass to see it?

I hunt predators day and night. At night I want good glass.

Dateline has a show about you Grizz. LOL
X marks the spot.

Okay....That’s damn funny !

I’m just a smidge shocked that you can actually read.

🦫

Oh, boy...Here we go...Is Flavor staying the night at your house?

LOL

🦫

Before you and DingoSucksMeOff start fighting...What’s good glass for you.

Not judging, just curious what you run at night. I’ve got limited experience doing any night hunting....

Well, there was this one time, but she was legally old enough, and she didn’t say stop.

😜🦫

Is that damned Kingston peering in my window again and reporting back to you on his walkie talkie? son of a bitch.....

I lost contact with Kingston 7 hours ago when he said he was about to breach a secured shelter on your property.

Welfare check might be helpful.

👊🏽🦫

Nightforce and Schmidt Bender on my predator guns... The Duk of death and I are big buds now LOL

"Duk I says." Little Bill Dagget. As Fuqked up as California is, they do allow us to run up to a 12 volt light at night for predators. No night vision though.

Nice...I have a couple S&B scopes. One is also on a predator rig - 20 Practical.

🦫

I don’t know if you need alpha glass but you definitely don’t want cheap entry scopes. Especially some of the rifle scopes combo .
You can get lots of scope from 250-500$ now days.

I consider myself a pretty good shooter, but not a very good hunter. That said, I have spent enough time hunting to realize that use cases are different for different people. Someone that hunts a corn field, sage brush, farmland, rolling hills, SW desert, or alfalfa may have a different set of needs than someone that hunts deep, dark, hellholes.

I'm sure Beav knows this, but "dark timber" out here in the PNW and elsewhere is something that you literally have to see with your own eyes to believe. I don't know where he hunts, but the "hills" can be dang near vertical and they aren't tiny. I'm not talking rolling hills of the NE or SE portions of the US. More like straight up and down, and jagged. Not mountains per se, but a thousand or more in elevation. It gets "dark" well before legal sunset in those holes and only gets worse. And it's literally a rainforest. Luckily, shooting distances are short.

In contrast, you can get out of a hole and hunt clearcuts that are literally lit up by moonlight, just like a crop field, or desert landscape. I've seen a lot more hunters lurking those areas, but there are plenty of tough bastards out here that dive down into those hellholes after deer and elk.

So will a scope that works well in sage brush or crop fields, +/- 30 minutes of sunset, be good for dark timber? I don't know, we'd have the try them. But it's funny how people assume their open field use case applies to someone that is in near darkness well before legal sunset.

I had one experience in Eastern Oregon near the breaks of the Snake River where I assumed that it would be more open country hunting, compared to the coastrange that I am used to. And it was, in terms of the landscape. But the deer and elk still bed in the ribbons of timber. Those ribbons are in the crevasses of the landscape. That timber can be as thick, or thicker than anything in the coastal rainforest of OR. In other words, you aren't making much progress on foot.

That hunt turned into cat and mouse in dark timber right around legal shooting hours, which is +30 minutes of legal sunset. I had a Viper 2-7x on my rifle. I found mule deer in the timber at dusk, but I couldn't confirm antlers. I had to use my $300 binos which were plenty for the conditions. Then raise my rifle. Then not be sure it was a buck. Sling the rifle, and look through the binos again. Then shoulder the rifle. The deer were milling around in the timber.

I think everyone gets the point. After that I experience, I was really interested in Mule Deer's scope tests. Especially his low light tests. Based on that, I bought a few Leupo 6x42, just for the performance in lowlight, but I don't know how much better that scope would be in that situation, as I don't know how the Viper 2-7x compared. All I knew was that the Viper wasn't nearly as good as $300 binos.

The best general purpose scope that I have used in low light was a Kahles 2-7x.

I did learn a hard lesson a few years ago when I took my son in law hunting for his first time... walking back to the truck we took a detour through a strip of timber I knew the deer liked to hang out in close to sunset and it was about 30 minutes before then so we sneaked in and stopped every few feet to glass around and check the shadows for deer waiting to head down into the canyons just a couple hundred yards away.

I put my Leupold binos up and looked around and when I scanned across a dark shadow under a heavy fir tree I could see a big four point looking back at me- but just barely. I slowly put my binos down on the harness and brought up my rifle and looked all over for that deer with my 3-9 Leupy on my rifle and couldn't make it out to save my life... looked through my binos again and there it was, but just barely made it out... if my binos had been attached to the rifle I could have had a dandy deer that evening, but my scope just wasn't up to it in the same light conditions... I'm pretty sure most scopes wouldn't have been in that situation and I run into that situation more often than I like to admit....

Bob

Jason,
In coastal timber for elk, I’m using either open sights on a lever gun or a lightweight Browning BAR MK3 with a Leupold VX3 2.5-8x36 scope. Both, to me, have advantages. Running shots on bulls in dense timber, I prefer open sights and shooting with both eyes open.

If we’re heading into timber with pockets of small clearings/wallows and meadows, I like my scoped BAR. The 2.5-8x36 is a pretty decent timber optic at reasonable yardage inside a canopy of Doug Fir.

As you stated, it’s unrealistic to claim one size fits all the types of hunting environments for optics, rifle chamberings, or even boots...With that said, my personal experience, especially hunting elk on pub-land on the Coast, is optics rule, both in scouting with long glass, scanning the hunting ground with bins, or in a scope.

I always have to assume, other hunters have done the same leg work I’ve done, to scout up bulls before opening day. Because of the competition, and the inherent seriousness found in people during bull hunting, any advantage, is a good thing.

In contrast, me sitting over a shooting bag for 10 hours shooting ground squirrels or p-dogs - my scope optics are not the same quality as my big fur rifles. They’re good, helpful, and easy on the eyes for extended lengths of shooting. But the glass isn’t tier 1 stuff. For me, it’s perfect for that type of hunting I’m doing.

I believe that since I’ve been on both the unlucky end of having game shot out from me, and also the winning side of taking animals before others had the opportunity, mostly due to optics. I would encourage anyone who hunts public land with OTC tags to consider what I have found helpful by upgrading to a solid performing scope with glass good enough that a person can transition from the bins to their scope in low light and watch heads until you can hit the go button.

🦫

PS

I hunt the Wilson Unit exclusively for elk the past 43 years....Damn, I’m getting old !

I used to run Leupold stuff in the 80's until I found out about Kahles/Swarovski... The good stuff is all i use on my rifles now since then. We can shoot for an hour after sunset legally so the quality really works here... if you have bright sunny conditions, any old scope will work.

No...I just like nice toys.

just as long as your spotlight works right

illuminated turrets rock......

Never needed a spotlight. After reading these types of discussions on here for years I think some of you fuggers are blind as a bat and few could use iron sights effectively if their lives depended on it. And btw scopes do work much better than iron sights at night with a light. I know that from years of coon hunting and predator hunting. I started out deer hunting with an iron sighted Mossberg 500 slug gun when I was a kid. A few years later got a Winchester 94 .30-30 as my first deer rifle. I killed deer every season for years with those two before I ever used a scoped rifle. Anybody who really needs a scoped rifle to kill deer and seriously can't get the job done with irons either ain't much of a hunter/shooter or is blind enough they should stay the hell out of the woods for everyones safety..

This is another example of someone’s really small world colliding with reality.

JS,

Post a few pics of that work rig you used for culling Roo’s for 15 years. That set-up is the epitome of what a working rifle and optic looks like.

Also, what is the rifle, barrel and scope ? Barrel looked to have been replaced - which wouldn’t shock anybody after years of daily service.

🦫

How so ? Keep in mind I've killed deer in the open in excess of 300 yards with iron sights and under heavy hemlock/spruce/pine canopy on cloudy days at sunrise/sunset.

Isn't that the truth.....

You mean to tell me there is someplace you simply can't kill deer between sunrise and sunset and manage to get within 300 yards to do it ?

I’d assume you consider yourself a lame ass hunter since you didn’t sneak to 10 yards and kill all these deer with a long bow?

Blacky,
You know, that I know, your hunting environment doesn’t require tier 1 glass. Same for a lot of other hunters around the country.

Hunting terrain and styles of hunting are different due to locales, conditions, and more importantly, an individuals style of hunting they prefer.

The thread is about glass and whether there is value and benefits to upgrading or not.

You adequately covered the reasons why for you, and other hunters like you, probably don’t need the improvement in glass.

Just saying dude...

🦫

I have killed deer with bow and gun at 10 yards and less. That has nothing to do with this discussion. You want to tell me exactly WHERE IT IS that you can't kill deer between the hours of sunrise and sunset with an iron sighted rifle ?

Surprised Mountain King of the Catskills doesn't use one of these

I have to be careful when talking about him , he posts mean stuff and hurts my feelings.

OE,

How have you been ?

🦫

Nope never used a spear. Have used rifle, shotgun, handgun, muzzleloader, bow. Spears aren't legal hunting implements here. If they were I might give it a try.

^^^^^Hate bait^^^^^

I am doing great, thanks for asking.

I try to avoid this place like the plague but like a crack whore end up coming back . It will be a gradual withdrawal.

Say Whaaat ?

This thread has been a summer fest of love event.

🦫

Rehab didn’t work out for me either.

Keep the faith.

😬🦫

It’s gaining traction…. This’ll have some legs.

I'm a predator hunter/caller, days only now. I've been at this game for 50 years and started with 4x Weaver. Preds are big animals and I do my scanning with my eyes, scanning with a rifle or binoculars introduces more movement and a better chance of getting busted. If I can see them with my eyes I can see them in a scope. Scopes have come a long way since I started, I used to have to black out a square to see it in the scope at 300 yards. Now even low end scopes are sharp and clear.



On this target with a much more modern scope the small diamond was visible.



I have about 10 dedicated predator hunting rifle and don't think I have a scope over $300 but that does include Bushnell Elite 4200, Burris Signature Select, Meopta Artimes, but it does include a couple low end Weavers and Kronus scope that work well also.

How well does a $90. Weaver 1-4x24mm work, it kills coyotes. Win Mod 70 222 Rem I bought it just to see how well a $90 scope would work, it is clear and precise but bulky for a 1-4.



Kronus M-30 1.5-6x44mm circle dot. RPG .223 I liked this scope enough that I bought another for a custom 6x45mm bolt action.



For me it is a matter of putting the crosshairs where needed not how well I can see the animals.

A lowly Weaver V-3 on a rifle I drove 1700 miles for the hunt, it worked perfect for still hunting the forests of northern WI, it has proven very reliable.



You can spend a $1000 more for your scopes, I'll put it into gas and hunting.

For most of the big game hunting I do, alpha glass is not critical. I mostly hunt in open or mixed terrain, and for that, decent mid level glass is just fine for the scope. I do like using high quality binoculars though, as I spend a lot more time looking though them.

You’re a little dense. Ok, a lot dense.

Of course animals can be killed with open sights just about anywhere. ML and bow hunters prove this every year.

I know a few hard core killers that would take exception to your comment that the use of a scope makes you a lame ass hunter. If you truly felt like a superior killer, you wouldn’t ever be using a firearm.

I can get anywhere I want to go horseback, don’t mean I’m going to do it.

🤣….

LOL. Who's dense now ? I never said the use of a scope makes you a lame ass hunter. I said anybody who REALLY CAN'T kill deer with iron sights and REALLY NEEDS a scope to get the job done is a lame ass hunter.

I've got a buddy who has access to several pieces of prime turkey habitat on private land in Nebraska. He never hunts turkeys with anything but a bow.

Now that is a feat .

Good for him. Does he kill many ?

Bet was 10.

If you’re right...name your beer 🍺

😬 🦫

A scoped crossbow ?

😬🦫

I’m watching.

Bunch of damned hacks using optics anyhow. Real hunters don’t need sights. Shoot, Fred Bear managed to get after it

I almost never carry a pair of bino's with me. One binocular is generally enough.

That damn Beav has me 2nd guessing my optics now..... damn him... this place gets $

My contribution to 10 pages....

Same…. I’d lose the 2nd bin.

A scoped crossbow wouldn't be much more challenging than a shotgun.

I killed my biggest buck with an old Ted Williams pump shotgun. No sights. just a bead on the barrel. Winchester rifled slug. 195 lb. dressed 10 point.

Depends on if it has alpha glass or not.

No doubt...Heck, we even got Blacky who’s cross eyed and can’t use a scope properly owning this thread.

LOL

🦫

PS

Easy Blacky....Easy....Just fun’n at you. 😝

Admirable effort, brother.

🍺🦫

Living in the PNW part time, must have made you 1/2 retarded.

Of course, in daylight, optics will be brighter and clearer.

Hunt your dogs at 30 minutes before or after dusk and dawn, then say your $300 scope glass is awesome.

LOL

🦫

PS

No hate...Just pointing out subtle differences.

PPS

Nice dogs killed

Wow, I didn’t realize your greatness until now.

Several years ago I went on a guided prairie dog hunt with two of my adult sons. There were many fields full of dogs. We were towed along on trailers set up for shooting next to the fields. We all have Alpha glass. Of course the shooting starts hot and heavy and then tapers off gradually as the varmints get smarter. Our guide, driver, was always trying to pull us off the fields while there were still plenty of dogs in sight. Previous groups he’d had earlier were ready to move on quickly because they couldn’t see the animals with their junk optics. I loaned him my Zeiss bins so he could see what we were seeing. He was surprised at our view and at how many dogs were still out there.
Wyoming several years ago I shot a big muley aiming towards the sun. I could pick him out in the whiteout conditions, but not a lot of scopes could. I’ve been whited out with lesser scopes than my S&B 3-12x50.

Using a scope on a rifle looking for animals I regard as a serious breach of ethics.
In addition, it’s stupid, because the view through a serious binocular is enhanced by the stereoscopic vision provided by the bin. Everything is better with binocular vision compared to a comparable quality monocular.

That’s about how everyone did it back before scope and rifle sights were prevalent back when I was a kid. The old bead was a pretty good sight if the gun threw a slug well.

Yep. Seen a lot of deer killed with bird guns and slugs when I was a kid. Lived close to the rifle/shotgun zone border and hunted both zones. Common to see hunters toting slug loaded bird guns in both areas. That old Ted Williams did throw slugs good.

Provided the scope is mechanically sound, ie, retains zero, tracks correctly, and returns to zero reliably, how could Alpha glass to top it off with be a disadvantage? That being said, if cost is a consideration, mechanical reliability is the priority. I haven’t bought what I consider to be a true Alpha glass yet. ZCO, Tangent Theta, or maybe Schmidt and Bender. If I had unlimited disposable income, would I? Absolutely. As it is, I go for the best glass I can get in a scope that has a track record for mechanical performance, at a price point I’m willing to pay.

John

Well said John. Seems like most that track reliably have pretty decent glass too.

Alpha scope glass is what you want if you are trying to see very small targets a long ways away. I've done comparisons between my Nightforce NXS's and SHV's vs. the much cheaper SWFA SS straight power 16x scopes. Not even a contest, even at 500 yards. Ill generally shoot a 2" target at that range and really have to squint and try to focus with the SWFA. Using the Nightforce scopes with MOAR reticle is like child's play. Even though the SWFA tracks equally as well as the NF scopes, the focus and resolution and clarity is no where near as good. That's where "alpha" glass prevails. Also the reason the lesser ones got sent down the road.

Buddy of mine was cruising a forest road in Colorado and lo and behold there was a pair of bins hanging on a tree limb.

They probably belonged to blackheart's buddy, that's why he never wears them anymore.

Every year. He's killed three out of one bunch more than once. When he knocks down a tom, the others jump on and start spurring it.

The few times I've gone with him, we were in turkeys every time.

Nah, he's only hunted in NY, WV and ME, never out West.

Sounds like a good turkey hunter.

He is, and he also has access to a lot of prime private land with very little hunting pressure.

In the PNW if it ain’t an NXS, Kahles, Atacr or S&B with a carbon barrel your a lame ass hack.

I am pretty happy if I can hit a 6" target at 500 yards 7 out of 10 from field positions other than prone with a really good rest. My lowly SWFA 3-9 allows me to see targets, holding steady on sticks or improvised positions at 500 yards limits me when shooting animals. 2" at 500 yards is out of the question. What position/rests helps you hit 2" targets at 500?


mike r

Thanks for playing, but I think you missed the title of the thread.

“ How important is alpha scope glass for your hunts ?”

Not shooting targets from a bench.

From what I’ve seen, in mechanically reliable and durable scopes, it varies from very useable (SWFA) to breathtaking (Zero Compromise). Some day…

John

Agreed, the plain old 3x9 SS Is tough to whoop for a lot more money to my eyes. If they were more available I’d hardly ever stray.

I think highly of the 3-9 SS but I sure am in love with my Bushnell 3-12 LRTSi….

John

For me, alpha glass to locate, older Leopolds for the killing. Mostly 12x50ELs and VariX III 2.5x8.

I tried to get one of the 4.5x18’s LRSTi’s and after I ordered they said they were outta stock. Those were excellent hunting optics as well. Hoping the new Bushy is worth it’s salt.

Haha...Yep, yep.....What MA said ^

Laffin

🦫

Hey Scotty,

I know you’re sandbagging to push this thread over the line.

😂👍🏼🦫

Man….. I’ve wanted to get in the mix a few times but I have been trying to be fair…. It’s tough though

You can subtract my posts to keep it fair, but I think we’re on the downhill slide now.. the evening crew is about to hit.

What about the flat brim?

(Just trying to get that downhill momentum 😁)

Bi-pod with a rear bag works just fine.

Start picking your favorite beverage...It just better not be Coors Light of some domestic brew you can get anywhere.

🦫

I’m too old school for a brim that’s a diving board. Gotta cup and roll mine immediately.

Downhill crashes can be spectacular to watch...Hold steady, pard. Things could still get weird.

🦫

PS

I’m shocked how nice everyone has been towards one another, and on the optics forum, this could be a first.

GFY…

Thanks, that is some good shooting.


mike r

Somnabitch...I probably deserved that.

😬🦫

Me and Mathman feel like we were just attacked.

Beav’, your guys elk hunting out there is intriguing.

What ranges are you guys typically talking on those clear cuts?

I believe you were SLM…. I wouldn’t let that stand…..


And yeah, this has been oddly grownup and civil…. Im waiting for someone off the top rope any second now.

Half of my rifles wear alpha glass, the other half wear NF.

Aside from hunting timber. Our cuts very from small pockets to huge cuts. I tell hunters coming out to hunt to expect shots from 400 yards out to 750 yards.

🦫

Math loves ice in his beer, and his milk. Fact, I swear.

😬🦫

B, what was the yardage on the bull you shot ?

🦫

Me too .

I ♥️ my Miller Lite.

Someone insult someone's wife. Or Kid. Or favorite bullet.

Anything but their favorite optic, as that just wouldn't be proper in the optics forum.

GFYs all around.

Bitches...

Pfft...You get drunk on tap water. And, you’re an easy lay for any women with big feet, and a tattoo of a starfish above her butthole with the words “Pick One” written on her lower back.

😂🦫

475

Keystone Lite for everyone.

Now a pic of your bull mount would be nice.

👊🏽🦫

PS

Scotty, say’s thanks for hitting 10 pages on this historic and civil thread.

Congratulations beretz(s)

🍺 on Beave

Good Lord, I hate you today.

🤣🦫

BAM, from the top rope with a chair!

Thanks Beav, this whole thread is quite weird in this forum. No ones on the road to kick someone else’s ass, nothing…. Feels off….

My lion chasing buddy and I will slam the Keys. It is nice because you kind of get drunk, but get hydrated at the same time.

Don't deny the inevitable....

PS: I have never been laid, starfish tat or not.

🦫

Getting back to the original question, there are three clear reasons why someone may choose Alpha Glass.

1. Brightness, clarity, and depth of view.
2. Low light visibility.
3. Reliability.

If you can afford Alpha Glass and it makes you happy, then that is one of life's little pleasures for you to enjoy. It is definitely optional equipment though, not mandatory at all.

Owning a high-end scope does not make you a better marksman or hunter. It lets you see a bit better to some degree than lesser glass. Except for super-low light conditions, it is
doubtful you would miss a kill shot with a lesser scope. And if you can't see hogs in low light with the scope you have now and you want that extra 15-30 minutes extra hunting time,
is it worth the $2000 extra it costs to have that?


My next scope will be a S&B Polar. Not because I need it, but because I want it. I want one because nice glass makes me happy and I look forward to using it.

Out of 10 rifles all have Leupold scopes. Four 4x, one 6x, two 2.5x8, and one 3x9 all with the post & duplex reticle. I have a 3x Big Bore with the HD and a 3.5x10 with the standard duplex. I lose the reticles before the scopes are too dim to see through. I use a B&L Discoverer 7x42mm binocular that I can use after the scopes aren't useable. A safe and humane shot is more important than a trophy to me. YMMV.

Not so fast, there’s still this Coors Light trash talking.

A guy can only take so much.

I’m checking Mathmans schedule.

Bring it you punk-ass, cross eyed, taint washer.

😜🦫

Maybe Mikey will loan us the grocery getter to head to the PNW.

Nothing wrong with being happy about something. Optic, rifle, or hunting dog...Wife maybe, too.

👍🏼🦫

That’s not you that’s the devil 😈…

Dave, my man !

You just dropped a turd in this alpha scope glass thread by mentioning Leupold.

Gloves coming off...Where’s Jud ?

Leupold in the house.

🤣🦫

I guess this is where I should say “Get behind me Satan” or “Springcove”

LOL

🦫

How big a boy are you?

You realize I’m 5’ 8 1/2” and 165#?

I’m the same...Sorta. 219lbs, but only after my morning dump.

🦫

PS

T, just txt’d me and said your 5’8 1/2 in heels.

That’s cheating

Practice falling down till I get there, you’re going to need it.

😂

🦫

SOB, you can’t trust anyone these days.

Sorta spit some CL out the nostrils on that one.

LMAO........

Leupold’s and Alpha glass huh…. Now we’re talking.

I heard they make good sunglasses too

Johnny,

don’t feed the midgets !

LOL

🦫

PS

SLM, I just fell down and hurt myself.

#burrisorbust.

The Hoveround buck your ass off?

Back on a serious note...For a second.

Would a Leupold Mark5, VX6 HD and VX5 HD qualify as alpha glass ?

If, no....Why not ?

I had several VX6 non hd scopes. Just have one left on Sako 243 Win yote rifle...I had good success with them in low light hunting conditions.

🦫

It isn't, most hunting is done with iron/peep sights on Sharps rifles or old original Winchester lever rifles, my top glass rides on defense and target rifles.

Man….. now we’re talking.

SLM is climbing back up on the ropes for another round.

I knew you were gonna chime in with your little varmint rifles like the 50-90 and little stuff with buckhorn sights….. there is always one in the mix

Next you’re going to tell us about knocking over bucks with some muzzleloader and little tiny irons like it’s your job….

I thought the VX6 was some of the greatest looking glass I’ve used. I just couldn’t keep from them turning into rattles on my Mashburn or 338.

Like the old Indian said in the Outlaw Josey Wales, they aren’t for shooting, just for looking through

I really like the VX6 I have. Lugged it around Africa several times, and MX once. It's done very well.

I like taint.

If it tastes like cock.

Gunner, really ? Your alpha glass only sits on specific, non hunting rigs ?

Huh...I didn’t know that.

Well, that’s cool.

Question, if you were going to hunt a scoped rifle, would you use tier 1 glass, or something else ? Being that you have shot behind and own solid optics.

🦫

I’ll tell SLM.

🦫

PSA

SLM can’t find his step ladder to reach the top rope...Anyone see or take it ? Thanks.

Yeah, I got scared off my CDS VX6 scopes by Form and Jordan a few years back.

I did buy a VX5 HD for a lightweight 7-08 a year and half ago...I guess my toe still dips into the Leupold pond every now and again.

🦫

Really ?....Your 338 crushed a couple ?

That sucks !

🦫

+1

Well reasoned & shared

LOL, but that coyote sitting behind bush with head hanging out eyeballing that passel of late calves had to get the little Swede/147 horn guided by LRTS. i couldnt even see his head with naked eye to shoot, Lulu the red quarter horse was blowing, tail swishing and holding her head high, i knew she saw something over on that clay bank, grabbed the bino and found what was buggin her, she's a good big sis to those calves ; ]

Terrain, range and critter would dictate glass, lifetime Western Bull Elk hunt? big 338 firing 300gr Accubonds at 3000 fps, 2.5-10 NF would get that job, set and forget Leupolds and even an old steel tubed Weaver 4-12x40 AO get deer here with ease.

I had two 2-12’s and both got rebuilt twice. It’s kinda about then I figured I should look at something else. The Mashburn ain’t particularly tough, nor was the 338. Maybe I just got a bad batch but I got tired of trying.

Jerry,

What were your African hunting rifles scoped with?

Small world! I've been hunting the Wilson, Trask and Saddle Mountain units for awhile now. But mostly rifle blacktail, and archery elk. If you're getting it done in the Wilson for elk, year after year, my hat's off to you. I mean it.

I've only done one rifle elk hunt in the Wilson, just a few years ago. And I think it would make a good reality TV show Circus would be an understatement! You're not just dealing with the animals, but hoards of people. Groups driving elk like deer, and shooters at each vantage point. I'm used to seeing trucks at gates, and running into other hunters in the field, but that elk hunt is more like a sports competition with animals involved.

The last 10 years, the unit has exploded with hunters. There was a time when the Coast bull hunt was a plan B for dudes that didn’t draw an Eastside hunt.

They would typically roll in Friday night and pray for an elk sighting over the next 4 days...Over time, these hunters started learning from coming back and talking to other non-local hunters about the areas and how our elk move.

Today, if you’re trying to hunt by truck on logging roads, you’re going to have crowds where the elk herds are easily seen.

Last season, we were down two hunters. I elected to puss out and go to a few honey holes by truck where I had put eyes on bulls.

Didn’t matter that we arrived at 3:30AM opening day, hunters were already there sleeping in rigs where we needed to head in before light...They ended up missing a decent 4 point, I had hoped we’d hunt up.

Day 3, I got on a small spike. I passed on him, but hailed my pard on the radio to come to my spot to get take the shot if he wanted...By the time he’d made his way to me the spike and cow moved into a deep ravine. We had a big storm crushing us, neither of us wanted to dive into the steep timber with 60 mph wind gusts hammering into trees.

Last season brought back the bad memories of too many hunters running amuck in drivable areas. I’m going back to the hike in behind locked gates, no vehicles hunting. That 2, 3, and 4 mile up hill trek cuts the hunting pressure by 90 plus %.


🦫

I bought some Swarovski binoculars and replaced my Zeiss Terras was so pleased to see the color variation in a deer’s fur at 100 yards I couldn’t wait to get the benefit of those fabulous binoculars. It took 7 years before they actually made a difference in a hunt. I spotted some bedded elk in thick brush that the cheaper bino is couldn’t quite make it. Son in law had the Terras I was able to wait for him to get there & we both killed cows at about 200 yards that other hunters would no doubt walked past without good glass.

I like Zeiss Conquest on my hunting rifles but have several scopes that wil do just fine for killing big game animals under 400 yards the best glass in rifle scopes is purely a nice to have.

You’re pushing it Beav’.

Haha!!!! Sorry Beav, your azzz is grass and SLM is the lawnmower.

Looks like SLM sorted out a tactical advantage!

He’s lower to the ground, makes a fella steadier and deadlier

For the record, I don't claim my glass is "Alpha" glass. Looking back in time, I was a Leupold basher. I thought they were over rated and over priced. Now just over priced.
Yes, Beav, I dropped a "chalupa"!!!

SLM said I should get in some practice on falling down.

I’ve been doing it.

It hurts.

LOL
🦫

Agree.

It’s not a “must have it” for pretty much everyone.

But it’s nice to have.

🦫

Laffin

🦫

PS

I still like the Leupold the scopes on my varmint rifles.

Their fixed 6x36 with dots are still a good one for me as well. But they are no more so I’ll slum the handful I’ve got. They work nice on normal stuff like the Whelen, 375 Improved, etc.

Scotty, looks like we can wrap up this fairly clean and overly civil thread now.

This must be what it feels like to post on a heavily moderated hunting forum. Boring ! LOL

Congrats on winning a case of beer. Get me digits to send you the prize.

#AlphaGlass4TheWin

#NotReallyNeededInMostHuntingSituations

#Tiny❤️Cock-Snow

#SLMIsUndersized

🦫

I’m always catching some older scopes on eBay.

I found myself having a mini-love affair with the discontinued Bushnell 6500 Elite 2.5-16x42. I was snapping them up for a few years off eBay.

You ever look there for older glass ?

🦫

Ed, got 3 safaris easily done with the 1.5-5 leupold, they ride on 375 H&H, 400 Whelen and 400 H&H, got the rest done with full buckhorn barrel sights on '74 Sharps rifles and Express sights on 577 double rifle, all animals were dead with one shot, PH's requested some insurance shots on the dangerous animals as we walked up, i'm plenty okay with that too.

Alpha to me means clear [descent] glass with absolute certainty on tracking, a nice bull elk out west from 500 yards on out where twisting turrets is the reason i'd use Nightforce.

Wish to hell i knew how to transplant a post to another thread, down in the BPCR forum under the Eulogy thread on page 3 is a couple videos our buddy Pacecars put up, it'll show why shooting long range iron sights makes even a 1.5-5X leupold seem like hubble telescope magnification.

Firing an 1869 built 45 2-7/8ths Sharps rifle with 514gr paper patch bullet at 1269 fps at a three foot square gong with 12 inch black bull in a 12-15 mph full value wind at 700 yards is some kinda fun, i held near 8 feet into that big East wind firing dew North, bullet struck a foot high and a foot right of bullseye, that's still a dead buffalo [bison] on the great plains of yesteryear.

I sure do. I’ll always snap up those older Leupold’s if I have a fit for one or think it’s a decent price. The old M8’s are good once you friction twist them into submission.

Will do.. pretty danged interesting. If I’d bet on the content I would’ve lost for sure.

Exactly the reasons I stopped hunting the coast a very long time ago. The competition for hunting spots was off the charts and most of the "hunters" I ran into were first class a-holes.... besides the fact I got really tired of being wet 90% of the time I was hunting.... bear, elk, and deer hunting is the best excuse I can come up with to get over to the East side to spend some time... I love the country over there and would have moved over there a long time ago if I could have found sufficient work and my wife wasn't so enamored of being around people....

Bob

Same here. They get me to the end of legal shooting light and then some. They are at the sweet spot for hunting performance and price in my opinion.

I got by with a Weaver K-4 for over 20 years so I guess I really don't need alpha glass, but my hunting is in the west where it is not dark and dismal and I don't take shots over 300 yards so I don't twist knobs either. Although I did step up to a K-6 for a couple of years before taking the big leap to a 3-9 Bushnell Trophy - does that count as alpha glass?

drover

I remember getting my first Redfield after using Tascos for years. I thought it was Alpha glass at the time.

Good binoculars and a spotter is a must in the western states.

drover, let’s put your 3-9 Bushnell Trophy to the alpha test and see if it meets the criteria.

#1. Did it cost you north of $1900 bucks ? I’m gonna say...NO

#2. Have you seen any hunting videos with a young, flat brimmed hat wearing dude, with his hair knotted into a bun on his head using your scope ?...I’m gonna say....NO

#3 When you bought the Bushy, did you try to hide the purchase from your significant other ?....Going out on a limb here, and gonna say...NO

The last question and most important...Did you look at yourself in your mirror while holding your rifle that you mounted the Trophy on and wink at yourself, saying, “Hell, yeah, I look good” ? This is a tough question to answer for me, but I’m gonna say...Yes, yes, you absolutely did.

3....No’s to 1...Yes. = Definitely not alpha glass.

I’m sorry. You’re a loser !

Grins

🦫

PS

I’m bet you still fill your freezer.

Plus 1

🦫

I go back and forth concerning a spotter, unless we're talking about needing to call out legal animals with very specific criteria such as age classes of rams, full curls, point restrictions, etc.

I am not a numbers guy though and usually need just a cursory look at a critter before deciding to go for it or not. I have never once tried to mentally count inches and total an animal's score before deciding if I would be happy with him or not.

I carry a spotter a lot, but honestly can't ever remember thinking it was a necessity. Maybe it is just me, though it has told me whether a herd had a bull/buck in it or not, from afar.

I look like chit no matter what scope i buy.

I usually only take my spotting scope when I’m scouting. I’m a smidge terrified of breaking it while hunting. The abuse I can put my pack through, leans towards sadistic.

Spotter inside my pack, horns out front of me...Yeah, I’m not gonna take the time to pull it out before I’m jamming my pack down onto something to shoot from it.

🦫

I like my Leica geovid HDs and I have a VX 5 Leupold that tracks pretty good does that count?

Normally my binoculars are all I need but sometimes a spotter comes in handy. Sitting up on the top of peaks the binos just might not be enough to see what’s on the next one… Saves me a lot of walking.

12/15X usually is good enough for me.

Yep, me too. My feelings are hurt to find out that I really didn't have alpha glass after all.

drover

Yeah, definitely a different scene than I am used to during archery elk season there. There are a lot of bowhunters but with the month long season it's never that heavy. And by mid-season, the bulls are usually getting fired up and start screaming. Getting an arrow in one, in that terrain, is obviously a challenge. But it's exciting when they come running from the bottom of a hell hole, or from the next ridge over to fight. Makes it easier on the legs

The coast isn't my first choice though. I apply for controlled hunts, and if I don't get anything then I usually archery hunt East and West. My one rifle hunt in the Wilson Unit was basically to help a buddy. I was shuttle driver for a few days, but still had a tag. I never hunted his area of the unit before. Too close to roads, camps, and OHV trails for me but the elk were in there.

SLM I have only ever carried 10x43s. I have looked at bigger binoculars but the weight always seems a bit much.

The weight is well worth it to me.

8’s as chest glass and the 12/15X are in the pack.

RetardO....of course it does !

🦫👊🏽

Bipod for the 15x ?

🦫

Tripod for the 12/15’s.

SLM, I’ve tinkered with the idea of getting some MeoStar B1 15x.

Can’t get myself to pull the trigger after I bought the Kowa TSN-553 for a lightweight long glass scouting.

I definitely see the advantages of big eye bins over a spotter.

Glass is pretty awesome on the Kowa’s. But, still....

🦫

I use 15X MeoStars. They`re pretty impressive when covering big country but I can`t do the tripod thing with them, unless I am looking at one spot and am not gridding an area. That is with any bino though, not just the 15Xs. It torques my back all to hell, in all kinds of weird angles when pivoting and panning.

I`ve gone back to bracing my elbows on my knees when glassing big areas and keep the tripod with the spotter.

I always have my binos on my chest if I’m in the woods. Currently using Leica 3200.coms and previously had limited edition HD-B’s that Frud talked me out of for his bride. 🙄🤷🏼‍♂️😁

If I’m not actually hunting my own tag and just scouting or already tagged out and along for the day then the Swarovski STS HD80 and CF tripod are most certainly in my pack.

But like Beav I don’t usually take it along hunting unless I plan to go to a specific spot where it will definitely help my odds as I’m a tad hard on gear when it’s go time.

That’s said I hunt a lot of large clear cuts and being able to see detail in the fringes of the tree line sometimes a mile plus away definitely is nice.

So would a Nightforce SHV be considered alpha glass?
Looks like doug has em under a K ( 3-10x ).

Was looking at Steiner GS or maybe something from Zeiss.

Thinking $700 ish but could go a bit higher.
Slap it on a .243 win or a .30-06.
500 yd and less.

This coming from a guy that hunts a state that has sunrise/sunset as starting and ending times for hunting. It would be a complete waste of money to use an Alpha scope in those conditions.

While it is generally still light enough to see 1/2 hour before and after sunrise and sunset in most of the US, what is or is not enough light to safely see and hunt is way more involved. A person's latitude plays a factor as the sun rises and sets at a different angles, dependent. Twilight will last over two hours in Alaska at times, and only 20 or so minutes at the equator.

Deep canyons, thick trees and cloud cover can further make shots totally difficult due to lightning, despite the sun technically being up. A person's eyesight could also be a factor.

So, no....alpha scopes for civil daylight only wouldn't necessarily be a complete waste of money, from a light gathering aspect alone. Nevermind quality internals.

Been hunting a long time, but not nearly as much or often as many of you. I have every brand of scope from S&Bs down to lowly 60 plus year old weavers. In my experience, the so called "Alpha Glass" buys you about ten minutes of hunting time and even that can be greatly offset with a heavier X hairs. I've tried it and it works. So it's your money...

Many have recommended 6x scopes with at least 30 mm objective lenses as the solution to low light. This combination provides a 5mm exit pupil which is widely accepted as the required amount of light to work with the human eye. The rule of 5x works with any variable scope just as well as a fixed power scope. A 3x9-32mm scope set at 6x also provides the same 5mm exit pupil. The old 3x9 -40 works as well up to 8x and costs much less than the fixed 6x scopes. 3x9's are the bread and butter of each major scope manufacturer. The lower price and similar quality makes them the best buy.

But don't listen to me. Get yourself a 10x fixed power with a 50mm objective so you have more confidence to shoot at shadows in the woods 30 minutes after sunset. Just don't shoot your buddies by accident.

My eye sight isn't 20-20 anymore. My eye doctor says he could get rid of the cloudiness, but I'd have to stop shooting while the artificial lenses settled in. I think alpha glass is a waste of money for me. I've been watching deer for a long time - they parade across my 40 acres. Deer seem to be moving long before sunset and long after sunrise - sometimes in the middle of the day. Maybe not so much with the "30 point" buck though. Since I don't really hunt for "Trophy" deer anymore "Beta" glass is mostly all I use for hunting. The most expensive glass I own doesn't exceed $500. I'm much more worried about how stout the glass is than perfect lenses, especially when I'm a state away from home.

I love to have venison/elk/antelope/etc. in the freezer - I don't need more racks on the wall. The wife won't let me hang the racks in the living room anyhow.

In theory this is true, but glass and coating quality plays a big part in perceived brightness.

Not all 8X42’s or 3-9X40’s are equal on light transmission.

Board line on the shv

Well I have a early 1980’s Weaver 3x9 40mm with Micro track and I have shot a Beaver at night with no light in a cornfield and when I went to go retrieve it I tripped on it as it was that dark. Held zero for years in Weaver mounts never had a problem. I think all this talk is 99% BS as most quality scopes will suffice for Big Game hunting 30minutes before sunrise and 30m after sunset.
Yes just this year I put on a on my Rifle thinking 40 years is a long time for a scope. Is my new scope better time will tell how it holds up.

This alone makes you a somnabitch, your glass comparison notwithstanding.

LOL

🦫

I concur. That was just mean!

Truth be told I used my Whelen with an old VXI 3x9 fir quite a few years and never knew I was missing out. Until I started using a little better glass.

I have one example of a big buck I shot at 2 in the afternoon. Ground was covered with patchy snow but it was just a dark day with clouds and I was sitting where about 150 yards was max shooting. The buck slipped down a ridge, I saw horns but damned if making him out with the 4x Leupold wasn’t a pain in the butt. Since then I’ve gone to a bit brighter optics for the woods holes I find myself in and don’t regret it.

Out in the wide open, clear day the M8 isn’t half bad but in the darker scene it doesn’t do me any favors. Still got the deer easy enough and I’d still use the scope if that’s what I had but the 6x Schmidt on that rifle now is some kinda better and not really much more money than the typical 3x9 these days.

When time and money are invested in a shot opportunity, durability/reliability are what's most important to me. Missing a shot because of equipment failure is not something I'm willing to accept but that doesn't mean you have to spend a fortune on glass. I've owned Swarovski, S&B and Zeiss, mostly buy/own Leupold now, seems to be the best intersection of value/$ for me now.

I shot deer w an M8 4x compact. Last kill was right at legal light in a thicket. Pretty dark.
It was bright enough.
But it wasnt spectacular.

The old Weaver V9.....pops and I had em way back, AO models bought new
Sent back every couple yrs due to fogging. These had knurled dual rings on objective, dunno if one was a Steel Lite series.

After 2nd fogging of mine we said screw it and got Leupolds. Dad a 3.5-10x AO and me a 3-9x AO.
Of course minr was dicked from the get go and sent back, replaced in 4 weeks. Zero probs w the replacement.

Yeah old vintage scopes are cool. But thats about it.
Ill take newer stuff w better coatings, materials and designs.

Scope quality probably doesn't help my hunts, but it does increase my pleasure viewing with sharp clarity and using repeatable adjustments. Of course, it is all subjective as alpha glass to me is only a moderate price range for many on the campfire. I'm happy with optics topping out in the quality and price range of Meostar, Zeiss Conquest, and Tract.

I cant afford a couple K for a scope.
Dont compete and dont draw big money tags.
So am in the 500 to 1000 range on scopes.

I also dont need many LOL

The Hungarian made Schmidt and Benders don’t suck for the money I’ve got into them. I think their 6x and 8x are still around 600 bucks and man, they’re nice if you don’t mind a set and forget scope with thick reticle. They aren’t for shooting little tiny prairie dogs but man are they nice in the woods.

No respect for the beav’.

I nominate beaver for a beaver award
Best roll cast into a pool....

Not important for the hunting that I do. Michigan deer woods shooting for me is nearly always under a hundred yards and usually closer to half of that. A lightweight set it and forget it scope that’s bright enough to see through during legal shooting hours and not fog up or break will do everything I need a hunting scope to do. For those reasons I mostly buy Leupold’s but also own SWFA, Zeiss Conquest, Trijicon, a Bushnell 4200 and a few others.

LMAO

🦫

Beaver does so much for the fire. I would like to reward him with an 18 pack of Keystone Lite and a bottle of Boones Farm…

Shoot me a PM and it’s on its way.

Beav got classy, he wants the Busch Apple beer instead

It was a little obvious that the core group of defenders of mechanics over glass in scopes were absent from this thread for the most part.

Paging....JORDAN ! 😬

🦫

PS

I figure the guys who run dials, also know how to read, and can comprehend what they read...They saw nothing here worth chatting about, because this wasn’t about glass over dialing, just a straightforward glass quality in a scope question.

There’s room in hunting for everyone to own, use, and be successful hunting with whatever they feel will work for them in their necks of the wilderness.

Coot Addict and SringCover have zero taste in beer 🍺

Facts matter !

🤣🦫

Ok how about Schlitz malt liquor? Or perhaps Mickey’s Big Mouths

Or would you prefer Bartles & James?

Drink enough the Alpha glass seems less important.

I once used some Black velvet to defrost a Ruger action and warm up a frozen dingo.

Boones Farm and TJ Swan (aka the panty dropper) bring back good memories.

I read this and laughed my ass off

After cataract lens replacement, Doc said to hold off shooting for 3 days. Was worth having the cloudiness disappear...

I've shot many a beaver at night, no scope and even with my glasses off. Almost as easy as falling out of bed.

Hah, you got that right, Beav!

If we're talking about sacrificing mechanics (holding zero, tracking, etc.) to get a marginal increase in optical performance, then it becomes a different conversation! A simple discussion about each person's choice of where to land on the sliding scale of optical quality is just that, simple. Depending on what a guy uses his scope for, and what he wants to do, non-alpha glass is perfectly fine until it isn't.

For what I do, sub-alpha glass is perfectly fine in my riflescopes.

Tripping on beaver in a corn field... sounds like high school.

You snobs can have all the alpha glass you want. I get by just fine with my omega stuff.

You never miss a chance to live up to your avatar do ya Paul.

Paul, when you were riding competitively, how much was your bicycle?

🦫

Mickey’s...Heck yeah !

Drinking em till you puke.

👍🏼👊🏽🦫

More like a killer... 😜🤣🦫

It was pretty much omega. I didn't compete for very long and I was just pretty good. I won one race and had several podiums from 94ish-96. My post was a joke BTW. If I had any need for really good stuff I'd buy it. I have been wishing for a better spotter while I have been in CO.

So I think we’ve decided, if you can’t kill it with a 6X36 or SS 3-9 it doesn’t need killing.

Forgot, and a Burris once in awhile.

Pretty much, but don’t forget the iron sights fanboys, who don’t need no stinking glass to kill shît.

😬🦫

I’d agree with SLM. Those two aren’t too bad in 95% of the place I hunt.

That’s because you rarely shoot your rifles and never kill anything anyways……..

It rates pretty low on the “killin scale”… Binos are way more important.

Just a little question Jordan, as you know I have pards and hunt Alberta as well, just how much hunting do you get to do yearly? I know/think whitetail tags are yearly, Muleys are hard to draw, and moose are even harder than that to draw. Are you hunting other provinces? Thanks

You pussies use rifles??

https://www.chiefaj.com/products/north-american-big-game-edition

Absolutely do NOT answer that question Jordan. We don’t need hordes more peeps moving here.

🤪

I need to put you on ignore.....I'm probably going to end up ordering one of those like a grade school kid ordering x-ray glasses.....

I realize there are more opportunities, does he take advantage of them though?

In most instances how I hunt, I’d agree.

I’m thinking a mechanical broadhead would be the ticket in #40lb pull.

👍🏼🦫

Only to not embarrass the masses.

A mechanical?

You nuts? Everyone knows a mechanical is inferior to a fixed.

But, but, those have exposed razor edges that look scary.

Laffin

🦫

😀

Rage broadheads are “Alpha”….

Only losers that can’t tune fixed shoot mechanicals.