Greetings Everyone!

My name is Matt and I am very excited to launch the official Athlon Optics thread on 24 Hour Campfire!

I am a competitive shooter (primarily 3GUN) and a member of the Athlon marketing team. I am also a big fan of good glass and all things that go BOOM.

I look forward to some great conversation and the opportunity to answer any questions you might have about our products or about optics in general.

So... Let's get this party started!

Are there any Athlon fans out there? If yes, I would love to hear about the Athlon products you are using, what you use them for, and what your experience has been.

Welcome. I have the Cronus, Ares BTR Gen2, and Helos 2-12x, all MIL versions, and they have all been fantastic. I appreciate the fact that you guys always answer the phone and I can talk to a human being. Keep up the good work.

I have a Athlon Helos BTR Gen2 2-12x42 I think its a good scope for the money. It works well for my application.

I have a Helos BTR Gen2 and have been pleased. I’ll pick up another next month for a new project.

Two asks: I’d love to see someone build a SFP durable big game scope that held zero like the old Leupold Vari-X-III scopes that were lightweight, very good optically…..but tracked reliably.

Second, I’d love to see Athlon build something to survive the tests done over on Rockslide. You’ve got the tracking down…I’d love see the durability addressed….and include usable hunting reticles with SFP option.

("and include usable hunting reticles with SFP option")

^^^This^^^

I would like to see a scope like this also. Illuminated BDC reticle that is not as bold/thick as the reticle on the Helos BTR Gen2 2-12x42

Picked up one of your 20-60x spotting scopes on sale from Cameraland last month. It's sure a big step up from the crappy old Simmons I've been using for too many years. If the sun cooperates & air isn't too hazy .22 holes are easily visible @200 yds. The price was right too.

I never have, and never will buy scopes based on that drop test. Been hunting big game since 1971 and have never had my rifles go through that, and they've been used.....an awful lot. It's borderline ridiculous IMO.

I have 4 of the Helos 2-12. For hunting they have been dead nuts reliable so far. The heavy dot on higher magnification is not for precision work.

How about a relatively light weight scope in the 2x7x36 range. This would be strictly a hunting scope. Don't need turrets or Xmas tree reticles. SFP with a duplex reticle. Something to compete with the Leupold 2.5x8x36.

I get that…. However, I’ve seen too many scopes that even a modest tumble will change point of impact. Most recently, had a heavy barrel .223 in a soft case leaning up against a table get knocked over by the dog. It landed on the windage turret side. It moved impact 3” at 100yds. Interestingly, the 6.5x20 had held zero perfectly for 25+ years. I’m certain its landing on the target turret side made things worse. Do I or most hunters need NF durability? No. Clearly something designed and built to prevent point of impact shifting from falling over in a padded case is needed….

Gutsy move for a company/brand to start an account here. I applaud it. Wear your body armor and FR clothing AT ALL TIMES.

I don’t own any Athlon products, yet anyway. I’ve read plenty of good reviews here on the fire to have confidence in the 2-12 Helos BTR Gen2. It seems to check many boxes for a compact rifle. I particularly appreciate the length. I just haven’t been able to get past the 25+ oz weight.

Delete

I'm intrigued by your scopes. I don't own one because at 60, I need a thicker reticle than any of your offerings. I'm cool with a straight duplex but would prefer a duplex with subtensions thick enough to see at the edges of daylight.

Plus I have no need for any objective bigger than 42-44 mm.

I'm glad to see a scope.mfr here. As was stated, bring your flame suit.....

Matt, I'll start by saying that I appreciate any manufacturer's rep who has the balls to join a forum and interact with the members. Frankly, it's a no win proposition. People will troll you and antagonize you just for the sake of doing so. People will voice legitimate criticisms that are somewhat difficult to diplomatically address. You also have a number of fans here who speak highly of your products.

I won't ever own one. China is our goddam enemy and there are other countries that are not our enemy that are capable of producing quality optics at competitive prices. Best wishes pard!

X1000

Matt, I a have two of th Athlon Helos BTR GEN2 2-12x42 FFP scopes.
Fantastic optic for the cost and recommend them to anyone that will listen.

If I could have one change it is to the reticle, I find the reticle center dot a tad large, subtends to .3 mil. I think half that size would be useable through out the magnification range and not cover up quite as much target at farther ranges.

Thanks for you interest.

I have 4 Helos BTR Gen 2 2-12's purchased based on reviews posted here. I seldom go above 10x due to the center dot size, but no complaints on paper or in the field

Welcome to the Jungle!

I have 2 Helos BTR Gen2 2-12’s. Only issue is one eats batteries. I really like them and will buy 1-2 more.

Paul, I generally agree with your above statement, but in all fairness, the Chronos models are made in Japan and are the best models they have.

Have a couple of MidasTac 6-24x50s, among other models. Those Midas Tacs are very nice scopes for the money. I like the floating dot reticle better than the floating cross hair in the Ares BTR Gen 2 4.5-27, although I wish the floating dot in the Midas Tac was just a hair bigger.

A Midas Tac 6-24 with a slightly larger, illuminated floating dot would be awesome.

JGRaider - Thanks for being the first to respond! Thanks for the positive feedback as well. Sounds like you have a pretty nice Athlon collection going on over there - I like it

Which model did you get?

Thanks for the suggestion! We are constantly in the process of developing new products. Any ideas that are posted in this thread will be passed along to our design team.

This is a subject that I expect will come up repeatedly - I'm only going to address it once though.

Most of our products are manufactured in China and our Cronus line is manufactured in Japan. All items are sent to our QC lab in Kansas City for inspection before they are shipped. We respect everyone who has played a role in helping our organization become what it has grown into. We also respect the freedom each person has to choose who they buy from.

I've heard great things about your scopes. Some of us like a set and forget it scope, that is a 1" tube and light as possible.

Lots of us southerners hunt from a treestand, and usually have time to crank up the power ring if needed. I'd like to see 2 light variables. One topping out at 7-8X, and maybe another around 10-12X, 40mm max.

Have a great Memorial Day weekend everyone! To everyone who has served (and is serving) our country. Thank you!

Welcome to the Fire, Athlon_Optics.
Would you like to comment on the performance of your Helos 2-12 in the scope evaluation, linked below?

https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/q-a-for-athlon-helos-btr-gen-2-2-12x42mm-field-eval.289776/

Send the same message to SWFA, since their's failed too a couple of years ago.

Interesting thread. I'm looking for a new scope at the moment. Something for my AR. 2-7 one inch or 30mm tube doesn't matter. Standard duplex cross, better thin than heavy. Just a plain old school scope, with modern build technology. I haven't looked at Athlon yet, because of the country of orign. I will check out the website. Since your new, I welcome you. Now in campfire tradition GFY.

Howdy Matt,

For the past year or two I've been able to use several different Athlon Scopes while working with Gavin at Ultimate Reloader.

The Athlon Ares 4.5-27x50 worked great on his recent 16.25" .308 Winchester build, and I used it to shoot some tight 100 yard groups. I haven't taken that rifle out to longer ranges yet, though it may go bear hunting this year.
https://ultimatereloader.com/2023/04/22/308-shorty-chronograph-data-comparison-16-vs-24-barrels/

Also used the Athlon Ares 3-18 on Gavin's 30-06 Savage which he upgraded recently. I was able to shoot 1/2 MOA groups with it, and the scope certainly helped with that.
https://ultimatereloader.com/2023/04/09/boyds-heritage-athlon-ares-upgrade-savage-30-06/

https://ultimatereloader.com/2023/05/14/tested-barnes-130-grain-30-caliber-ttsx-bullets/

I hadn't used the Athlon scopes prior to my time at Ultimate Reloader but am glad to have had the opportunity to use them.

Regards, Guy

I have 4 or 5 of the Helos 2x12 mostly on AR,s and 223 bolt guns and like them for general use, for range precise load work up prefer other scopes.

I’ve got three in the house and expect to add more soon, the Neos line is without a doubt the best value in optics right now.

I’m with the others who have mentioned a light, tough set it and forget it scope. Build a bullet proof fixed or variable under 15 ounces and I’ll buy a half dozen. Neos 3-9x40 is close. Give me a 6x36 or 2-8x36 and I’d be happy.

I have two spotting scopes Cronus 12-36x50 UHD and Ares G2 20-60x85 both are very clear and simple to use.

I have only had one problem with an Athlon.. Parallax issue ... Sent it in and after a couple days I got a email to call them...I thought "here we go"..

I was shocked when they said there were upgrading me and just wanted to know if I wanted MIL or MOA..

Have a 4 Ahtlons now..Two scopes a spotter and 15x binos... Excellent support and customer service..

What he said for the one I have, with the addition of dead nuts reliable and accurate with great illumination and reticle. A bit heavy but everything's a trade-off.

Also have a pair of Ares 10X42 I got from Doug on closeout. Very happy with them for the money and would have been at regular price.

Yes! I think there's still a market for scopes like that. Simple, light, rugged, reliable, with great glass.

Guy

I am a big Athlon fan, I have a Midas Tac 4-16 and a 6-24, very nice scopes. Welcome to the forums.

2-7/3-9X36/40 can be found but are getting thinner on the ground. Fixed X are non-existent.

How about a 6X with a mil tree like the BTR 2? No dialing necessary just zero and know holds.

The Kahles K16i is the Gold Standard by which I judge all optics...

If Athlon wanted to chase "Perfection" this is where I would set the mark.

https://www.kahles.at/us/sport/riflescopes/k16i-1-6x24i

From Chyna?

Kind of wish I'd seen that before picking up my second Helos BTR 2-12. I've had one on a 6.5 Sig Cross that survived a couple hundred rounds then riding and hiking around on my elk hunt last year ok, only complaint is that big ass center dot when trying to do any load development (slightly smaller dot or cross would be better).

I picked up another one for my Tikka 300 WSM and it croaked about 50 rounds in, held zero, but the parallax would change with every shot, so when my sight settled back down after recoil everything was blurry. I asked Athalon for an RMA since it was basically brand new. They asked a couple questions about ring torque, etc and asked for a picture, then said they wouldn't RMA it since the front ring looked like it was close to (but not touching) the turret..... Pretty lame excuse, but I wound up sending it in on my dime to get it replaced, I'd guess they don't actually work on them here in the states.

We'll see what they do from here, but not overly impressed at this point, kind of a get what you pay for situation I guess.

Here's the ring spacing that apparently murders Athlons, it's about the best you can do with Sportsmatches on a Tikka though, which is a pretty standard rig.




I too don't understand why there aren't any options like this, I'd be pretty happy with a lightweight scope sporting a decent mil tree for hunting. As long as it can hold zero, once set, I'm good with holding on the tree for shots like I do with my range rifles.

Camera Land is the sponsor of this forum.......

If I have a question I'll call Doug or Neil

And what do you think they will tell you?

Like you give a schit either way.....

Close JD. How about a 2-7 with a 30mm tube, illuminated ?? Set it and forget it compact hunting scope ? Under 10 inches is a plus.

kwg

Yeah, I guess you are right.

I barely have (16) 2-12's and have yet to experience a RTZ,tracking or zero retention issue,but I actually fhuqking shoot. Nothing bigger than 375H&H,if only in "fairness". Hint.




As to SWFA,I've close to (100) and have yet to experience a RTZ,tracking or zero retention issue,but I actually fhuqking shoot. Hint.









The Padded Case "Chronicles" are funnier than fhuqk. Try prying your kchunts from the couch and actually mashing a trigger. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!........................

Same here, 2 x 2-12 Helos and 2 of the 4-20 version. They are a pile of goodness for the money. Also, it doesn't hurt Athlon is very kind to us mil/vet guys as well.

The BTR Gen2 2-12x42 I have been using seems to forget to fail, or break, or get wonky. With all that forgetting it seems to remember where zero is just fine!

Regarding the 2-12,

Because of some positive reviews here, I bought one last November on a black Friday sale from Cameraland.

I shot it and really liked it. Love the reticle because unlike a lot of current reticles, it’s actually visible in hunting situations. Some have commented that the .3 mil center dot is too large for working up loads. I have been putting up a 2 inch orange dot and have been able to shoot great groups without a problem.

After reading that the scope failed the drop tests on the other forum, I decided to test my scope myself. I dropped it onto snow that was pretty hard-packed onto my 1 inch shooting pad nine times total from 36 inches and then checked the zero and tracking. Then I. repeated it nine more times with my shooting pad on the cement. Nothing broke and the scope held zero.

I wrote about it in this thread from last December. I think my post ends with 892.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/17880941/7

are Athlon scopes life time warranty and is there a USA place to send these scopes for warranty ? how long has this company been in business ? just wondering because i might need a couple.

Deal killer right there.

I'll greedily take FULL disclosure and candor,over say Reupold Smoke & Mirrors. Hint.





Now as to shooting modest agg's with the 2-12x Mil/Mil,it's a literal breeze. Rather than shoot "through" centerpoint subtension,I tend to use a 6 O'clock hold. Hint.







The reticle is rather easy to hold HARD,even to 1300yds++. Hint.




Try prying your kchunts from the couch and actually mashing a trigger. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!........................

Who would have ever guessed that Lil Schill would show up to pump up his current flame and run down his former.

I wonder how much more it would cost to make the same scope in Korea or the Philippines. Looking at some of the good optics coming from those companies building there, it wouldn't cost much more if any at all. Now, how many sales do they not make to patriots who hate communist China, our greatest economic geopolitical foe?

Matt @ ATHLON (CCP)
On this Memorial Day weekend congratulations on your position working for and supporting the CHINESE COMMUNIST PARTY!!
You couldn’t have picked a better American Holiday to show Your True “PATRIOTISM “!!!
Good luck with your job security, seems like you have shown your true colors…. CCP RED
Happy Memorial Day Weekend!!!
NWT

Lol ..Trumpy has nothing to do with it.

I won't own optics from the Chicoms.

The Leica Amplus 6 has been good to me lately.

I have the 2-12x42.
Like it.
Pretty much every loopie I've ever owned crapped out between 800 and ,1000 rounds.
I'm not there yet on the 2-12.
So far so good.
Time will tell.
Reticle is a big game killer.
Thinning it out would be mistake.
Never had a issue load developing with a fat reticle.
Just fit it to your target . pretty simple.
Think the only thing I'd like changed on it is a capped windage knob.
Dave

I will say the colored electrical tape on your caps is looking much neater... far more "professional".

Congratulations!

CreditQueen,

You'd require a co-signer for the tape alone...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?











Do not "forget" to obliviously quantify,that Imitation is THE most Sincere form of Flattery,as you "live" vicariously,reading my EVERY word and gawking every Splendid Pixel. Hint.

Try prying your kchunts from the couch and actually mashing a trigger. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!........................

Welcome to the forum.
I Respect that and welcome the open conversation.
I had one of your range finders from camera land ny.
Think it was the Midas 1 mile?
It would not range a torso silhouette at 850+/-. With plenty of reflective objects around it. I’ll post a pic.
I called and spoke to somebody (maybe you?) and got asked if I was using a tripod. I wasn’t but you guys still had me send it and replaced with a new one. Tried out the new one and same. So I sold it and told him about the tripod if he shoots that far. But, my other range finders don’t need a tripod even at their max range.

Regarding your scope, I saw couple guys ask about low power hunting scope. This is a big thing that you and other scope manufacturers are missing out on.
I get that you’re making what sells… ELR scopes for all the new long range wannabe or LPVO for tacticool D bags.
There are still guys out there that want nice quality scopes not made in China for their brush guns or straight wall cartridge rifles. Lightweight, 1-6, 2-8, fixed 6x with out all the tactical BS. 32 or 40 mm
I’m ok with BDC but don’t need the full blown Christmas tree .
Thanks, Andre

Drool,

You are a CLUELESS Whining Fhuqktard...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Pass 10yd parallax 35 Mil's on the erector,locking turrets(both),mechanical zero stop,FFP,a lineal mil scale intuitive reticle and killer illumination,while you Google for a FIRST Fhuqking Clue. Hint.











When you "shoot" your mouth and Imagination,is it as loud as PaulaBurnedHard's? Hint.

Try prying your kchunts from the couch and actually mashing a trigger. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!........................

It's called- look elsewhere. Vortex missed the mark as well with the LHT. Instead they make products to go along with the current fads. Think Bud Light. Lol.

Not sure why then”Christmas tree” reticle is a negative? Or why if you want 2-8 vs 2-12 you don’t just stop at 8?

I get the made in China hate, but it’s misplaced.

Being China’s #1 trading partner has probably deterred a war over Taiwan.

Liking my Helos BTR GEN2 2-12.

Ignore Paul sand in the vagina, Barnard. Hes a libtard.

He's a Biden supporter.

Ken and David.
I have looked else where. But there isn’t much selection in regards to quality yet affordable scopes in the lower power range. Look at the price old vx1 2-7, Same price or more than when they were new.
Why stop at 8 power? Do I really need 2-12 with LR reticle on my 44 mag carbine? Wouldn’t the 1-6
Or 2-8 be more than enough scope ? Or Does it really need all the AR tactical reticle?
Wide field of view is much more important to me when hunting the thick stuff vs max zoom. Make it 1.5-8 for all that I care.

I wanna see a red-white-blue tape job as it it Memorial Day wknd.

That's just darling that you say that while chewing on Xi's crotch.

Pardon wares that exist,as you gals Drool aloud...you "lucky" kchunts. Hint. Congratulations?!?





Fortunately for you ladies,Imagination,Pretend and Homoerotic Fantasies are free,so even you can "afford" to "contribute". Hint.

Try prying your kchunts from the couch and actually mashing a trigger. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!........................

I’m going to apologize ahead of time, Because I hate to ruin a good thread and hate to be an A hole.
But Tiny can’t help him self and needs to shut his pie hole.
Btw Stick how is your wife and kids Doing?

Let me show you something worth real value….Not your Athlon scope and electrical tape..
https://imgur.com/a/HzRAsAT

What's with the plastic bag?....

With sprinkles?

...or maybe itty bitty little stars?.

Do you have glitter tape Stick?

Drool,

Your AMAZINGLY long list,of very WELL founded Brokedick Insecurities,is funnier than fhuqk...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

I'm VERY "surprised",that you can almost post a picture,by yourself. Almost! Hint.

Hercules was 2 months old,on his first Buck. Illuminatti there,Wayne's world bottom and stock,with a 120 MB Smooch. Google as you MUST. Hint.




BabyMan was a "whopping" 5 months old here and the splendors exceed your "life's" efforts. 6x MQ and some tape,for a 162 'Max. Google as you MUST. Hint.




Try prying your kchunts from the couch and actually mashing a trigger. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!........................

Let me give you a hint..I’m still married and have my kids around
Also Where is the photoshop pic of your bear on your shoulders and you hovering over rocks?
Now stfu and move along

All BS aside... Nice looking kid and woman/wife/daughter...

+1... Congrats!

Drool,

I VERY much enjoy that your Woke Crying Karen Routine,is no fhuqking "Act"...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

What were the "odds" of you feverishly reading my EVERY fhuqking word and gawking EVERY Splendid Pixel,if only to "live" vicariously and escape being you,for fleeting moments? Perhaps extoll upon what you "do" for a "living",which mandates the High Pitched Whining Brokedicktitude an AMAZINGLY long list of Insecurities? Hint

Baby Man was 5 months old on his first Steelhead,which trumps your "life's" efforts. Hint.



At least you "get" to read about it and ogle The Splendid Pixels,as you TRY to "convince" yourself,that you "could too". Hint.









How come you are schlepping a Goat Fhuqk 10/22 with an Oil Filter "can" and Baby Man drives a Vudoo,with a HD MQ 1-6x Lit Bitch? Google as you MUST and Whine as you do. Hint.



Try prying your kchunt from the couch and actually mashing a trigger. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!........................

This. ^^^

NICE Stick!

You are a Blessed man...

“Mashing the trigger”. You get stupider by the day. Love window licking, wedlock chronicles!!!!!😂🖕🏿

This thread is derailing faster than a Norfolk Southern train in Ohio.

Sure is, as to be expected when the resident no killin liar Larry flaps his ignorant yap.

Dumbass even destroys a thread that supports his chino "sponsor".
A real hard charger. Lol.

Pardon my shooting more of said wares,than everyone else combined as you Crying Karens "get" to Pretend aloud...you "lucky" kchunts. Hint. Congratulations?!?



That High Pitched Brokedick Whining,sure is fhuqking soothing ladies. Fortunately for you gals,Imagination and Pretend are free,so even Crying Karens can "afford" to "contribute". Hint.




I'll feign my great "SURPRISE",that you gals must "live" vicariously. Try prying your kchunts from the couch and actually mashing a trigger. Hint.

Pardon a simplistic critique by me,massively swingin' Sales. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!........................

L.O.L.
Not sure if Xi Jinping and the Chinese CCP Athlon Management, L.O.L. is going to approve of his new USA Athlon marketing team and USA company (Alaskan) field representative and company spokesman.
Do you think Xi Jinping and Athlon , China has ever seen one of his companies have such a bizarre and dysfunctional introduction and product roll out ? L.O.L.
Do you think Xi Jinping or Athlon China can comprehend or has ever seen anything like his Athlon ~ Alaska marketing/field representative? L.O.L.
Not sure if there is a future for Athlon’ s Alaska Marketing Field Director with any other outdoor industry companies as a company spokesman or field representative??…..Budlight, Target, Disney, showed us what they can do with their Creative Marketing … I would recommend that Athlon’s Alaska company spokesman and field representative to not quit his day job and let this play out further.
~ Matt of Athlon, are you reading and following this?~ Does BUDLIGHT….mean anything to you ……?
L.O.L.

Hahaha.

The companies he endorses fail miserably (SWFA lol), and the companies he trashes can't keep their products on dealer shelves (Peterson and Leupold).


Hard Charger Outdoor Promotions.



Though he could have a future with rainbow 🌈 electrical tape and graffiti paint markers

It is fascinatingly HILARIOUS,that the gals who shoot the least,Whine the most,while extolling their Homoerotic Fantasies...you "lucky" kchunts. Hint. Congratulations?!?



You gals are Moths headed for The Flame. I'll feign my great "SURPRISE",that you gals must "live" vicariously. Try prying your kchunts from the couch and actually mashing a trigger. Hint.

Fortunately for you gals,Imagination,Pretend and Emoji's are free,so even YOU can "afford" to "contribute". Do not "forget",that Imitation is THE most Sincere form of Flattery,as you race to my every Post. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!........................

Hence the impeccable factory paint coating on the 500 yard gong.

If it looks like a chainsaw trigger, mash it like one


All the mashing goes to mashing keys on the old clickety clack to get the last word in and to feverously copy and paste out of the endless files of those he can never get out of his head. Lol.

Throw in some 20 year old pictures to make a real "monster mash" 😅🤣😂

KenBitchAgain,

What were the "odds" that besides your being a Drooling CLUELESS Fhuqk,that you also just "happen" to be a Lying Piece Of Fhuqking Schit...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?



A little steel and Pun be intended. Google as you MUST. Hint.




Pardon wares that exist and fresh paint,being a Karen's Kryptonite. Google as you MUST. Keep extolling your very WELL founded Insecurities and I'll simply fuel 'em with wares that exist. Hint.








Fortunately for you,Imagination,Pretend and Emoji's are free,so even YOU can "afford" to "contribute". Try prying your kchunt from the couch and actually mashing a trigger. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!.....................

NcStar wants you back Stick. They miss your uplifting customer service repertoire, positive comments. They want your name on this impressive scope.

https://www.ncstar.com/optics-acc/scopes/compact-tactical-series/sca420b-tac4x20air-scpblkbl-lns

Fhuuuck.
Is this imaginary pretend couch thing and smashing the trigger the new laughing hint?
Lmfao. what a Pathetic lonely fat [bleep].
What can I say Athlon, you have a really good rep on your hands!
Good luck

I say Athlon should make a fixed 6x with gloss finish and rainbow-tape turrets, call it the “Bigs Dick” edition presented by 24hrCF and let the consumers figure it out.

Or one with a image of Xi on the turret and call it the Lil Bitch.


On the Long Range Hunting site, under optics, not one mention of this brand as a topic in the first 6+ pages of threads.

And that is the site that threw tiny shtick out for being a fraud and a troll.

China is a ruthless economic competitor. Kinda like we used to be.

Trump had it right - he wasn't mad at them, they drove better bargains. We should have done the same, but did not.

You cannot blame them for their success.

That being said, I try to avoid their products as I can. Because they mean to eat our lunch.

This is what I'll say about made in China....

When counties have open trade, and is mutually beneficial, they tend not to want to annihilate each other.

Blame the politicians for making China a most favored nation to trade with.

And of course the Biden crime family taking bribes from China in exchange for God knows what.

Companies go offshore because they can get stuff made for less than domestically. Politicians allowed that to happen.

And libtards keep voting them in.

^^^Pretty much sums it up.^^^

So you thoughtlessly ignore that China uses slaves and practically unpaid workers to compete in our market? That is good with you?

I didn't say anything about approving or not their methods of mfg. You can say the same thing about many of our trading partners. Mfgrs offshore because of cheap labor. If you have a problem with how they treat workers, boycott everything made off shore. Lithium and cobalt for batteries is mined by child labor in Africa. Have any lithium batteries ?

Also, you can save the virtue signaling for someone who actually GAF.

Who makes the best "American Made" (with American made glass/components) scope?

Please rank the top five you would pick in order (Number 1 to Number 5).

Thanks

That’s real tough criteria

That's a tough one. Leupold are good scopes, for set and forget.

Unfortunately, they track like Stevie Wonder.

One reason I'm trying the Helos BTR.

Tired of dealing with leupi tracking issues.

Athlon could afford to shed a few ozs. though

Libtards keep buying Chinese scopes when there are a LOT of great non-Chinese options. Does Xi's cock taste like schezwan?

Somehow it seems this thread didn't get the results the OP wanted

Lol, no schhiit

Credit where due, Athlon got my Helos back on Thursday the 18th, shipped the replacement out Tuesday the 23rd, and I got it on Friday the 26th. That's pretty fast.

I think my gunsmith may have botched my Tikka bolt a bit, so the new Helos probably won't see any rounds till that gets all worked out. Maybe I'll put it on my lighter 6 ARC or Ruger SFAR to get a little workout while I'm waiting.

They knew what was coming. They are plenty sharp and building a solid business. There were plenty of positives and any advertising is good advertising. Some are just looking for an opportunity to show their asses.

Misery loves company. Not surprised at all at how this has turned out.

I personally own one Athlon scope that I bought on closeout. Nice scope for what I paid for it but it’s about or maybe is the only Chinese made scope that I own. I go well out of my way to avoid them.

Fugg China for Covid as a bioweapon and all of there other predatory practices and human rights violations.

Labels like an “American Company…” but made in China is a bigger slap in the face than just leaving the “American Company” line out all together IMO. Translation a few owners or shareholders make bank while nearly everything else is outsourced to near slave labor.

Honest question, is there no viable options for manufacturing in other traditionally “cheap” countries?
There’s lots of options that are countries not actively seeking world domination and actively working against our form of government and way of life.
China is flooding our country with fentanyl just for starters. I do my best to not knowingly purchase anything made there if there’s any viable alternative.

I’d love to know what the profit margin is for a scope selling for $500-$1,000 that’s made in China is. Id guess 200% min.

Each to his own.

I own one Athlon spotter and it is was made in Japan. Value exceeds its price point. It is highly usable. I like it for what I use it for and will use it until I can't hunt anymore.

I don't dial. I don't throw my rifle down on purpose. I don't need anything tactical.

I take good care of my gear. I do "mash" often, I do handload often, and I like trying different combinations of powder and bullets to wring out more performance. I am old and have zero need to impress anyone but myself.

Euro rifle scopes made for hunting with a damn good and simple reticle design are what I like and want.

If someone wants to buy CCP products, they are within their legal right to do so just like people are within their legal right to buy Bud Light.

Is there a 100% USA made rifle scope made? I mean with all the scope components, paperwork, and boxing made in the USA?

Jeezus Fhuqk,what WON'T a Crying Karen whine about?!? Hint.

Reupold is out of any serious discussion. Hint.








You gals collectively,don't shoot enough to fill a TicTac dispenser with empty brass. Nor do you "procure" enough,to make a fizzling fhuqk. Fortunately,Imagination,Pretend and Emoji's are free,so you gals can "afford" to "contribute". Hint.

Pardon my critique swaying the market,as you Hissy your Fit(s) and laude Brokedicktitude. Try prying your kchunts from the couch and actually mashing a trigger. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!.....................

Page 2...

CLONE THESE!

Stick,

How’s that Talos spotter working out for you?

Thanks in advance.

CreditQueen,

A SFP wearing a schit reticle,pisses up a LOT(every) of ropes. Hint.

The Spotter was bought as a lark for giggles,but is fhuqking surprisingly viable. Procured it to leave in my crummy at work,to gawk Brownies,Polar Bears and MuskOx...but keep forgetting to throw it in my travel bag. I leave a 'Frotto tripod/ballhead at work,to compliment a 1D4 and White Glass. Also keep a LRF and a coupla scopes,which only adds to why Fixed Fhuqkers are so hard to score as of late. Hint.

I'm thinking there will be new glass and at least one new rifle,awaiting my return. Karens LOVE Mail. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!.................

By all accounts, Korea and the Philippines are cranking out good quality, cost competitive scopes. I'd be very interested in knowing how much more it would cost Athlon to have one of their China made scopes produced in one of those countries instead.

Get back to me when you step away from brokedrick glass and can afford Kahles glass... KK?

The OP asked how to improve his product... FFP or SFP with QUALITY GLASS in the 1.1-4 or 1.5-6 range... Grand Slam Home Run

Cash, just curious, what do you think you can kill with Kahles glass that you can't kill with Meopta, VX6, or any of the new "glass" found in $400+ rifle scopes today?

AFTER DARK...

Kahles is damn near night vision.

Seriously... find someone with one (lower power variable) and look thru it 1-2-3 hours after dark. It will blow your mind.

THAT is what I am hoping Athlon can master in a clone...

Also the eyebox... the Helos 2-12 (I have one)... eyebox is not good.

I asked Stick about the eyebox before I bought mine from Doug.

He did not answer... just his typical gibberish about fugging hinting and strawberry picking...

Stick has a fugg ton of useful knowledge, but his 6th grade antics always gets in the way of being useful... ALWAYS

All Athlon scopes have a transferable lifetime warranty and are repaired or replaced at our headquarters in Kansas City.

Here is a link to more information on our website - https://athlonoptics.com/lifetime-warranty/

Athlon was founded in 2014.

I"ve killed hundreds of hogs at night, with a wide variety of "glass". No scope is "damn near night vision", unless it is, period.

Agree with you 100% on this BS loser. I don't take advice from narcotic infested gnomes.

I have it on good authority that Stick took up bicycling. Won't be long before he's telling me that my wares don't get used and that I spend too much time on the couch.

LMAO......

Snag one of these next time one hits the boards... https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/17752796

If you do not love it at night... I will buy it from you instantly (plus shipping et al).

CreditQueen,

Your Delusional Dumbfhuqktitude is funnier than fhuqk...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?





No fhuqking "wonder" you are FORCED to use my words and punctuation,because even someone as fhuqking STUPID as you,knows better than to try herself. Imitation remains THE most Sincere form of Flattery. Hint.

In "fairness" I have closer to (20) of said 2-12's and have yet to encounter an "issue",that plagues your crossed-eyes and pointy head. Try prying your kchunt from the couch and actually mashing a trigger. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!.....................

You don't use glitter electrical tape on quality glass? WTF

Awww your pussy hurts and you are good with the US trading with countries that use slavery to create products for our market. Good that you are lacking in the qualities that GAF counts.

This is pretty cool - I thought it was worth sharing

Here is a link to more information - https://athlonoptics.com/product/cronus-g2-uhd-20-60-x-86/

Athlon_Optics,
You may have missed my previous post amongst the noise. Would appreciate your comments on the 2-12's performance in the thread linked above.

the drop tests if yo can call it that , is not a real test or measure in my mind. too many variables , prone to inconsistent and no real control in the "testing" to be valid and meaningful. Besides , if I drop or bump my rifle I am going to ensure my zero is fine before shooting at an animal.

Good God.

Mounting systems and ring spacing matters a "smidge" too. I tend to flog on schit(understatement). Hint.



Try prying your kchunt from the couch and actually mashing a trigger. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!.....................

One time I was driving down the highway and I decided to take a picture of the sunset by holding my phone up through the sunroof (bad idea). It blew away and I could see it bouncing down the highway in my rearview mirror. I was able to recover it and it was completely fine! Shortly after, I knocked my phone off the bottom shelf of a nightstand (about 15 inches) and the screen shattered. Drop tests, as mentioned above, can be misleading due to consistency and control issues. All it takes is contact at just the right angle to mess things up. That's my opinion, anyway. Fortunately, Athlon offers a transferable lifetime warranty. If something goes wrong, we will repair or replace it.

Is that because you are short, fat and uncoordinated?

Or are you just clumsy?

Absolutely. Buying scopes based on that experiment is laughable.

CreditQueen,

I'm more than happy to be,whatever your copious Insecurities NEED most...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

You're perpetually ALWAYS licking windows on the outside,DREAMING about getting in. Try prying your kchunt from the couch and actually mashing a trigger. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!.....................

Sounds sick.

Be nice to bounce the gen 3 31 unfilmed white phos tubes.

Come on Stick... I am just fugging with you...

Ya don't have to go all window licker and chit.

And in the finest campfire tradition... another schidt show. Where are the girlies? hahahaha

About like when the Leupold "reps" did their live

Wonder how it would look if I were to try that??

I'll bet that wasnt made in China

I'm thinking an even bigger difference than a Barska vs Kahles comparison. hahahaha

Please explain how the Athlon rep here and his posts are anything remotely close to the Leupold clownshow.

As you know JG, an azzload of none thinkers here and more every month.

Yep, those leupold guys wanted to piss people off.

Mine was an honest question, just wondering how the industry works. Is the “brand” sending out drawings/specifications to bid? Is there some reason Chinese factories are better suited to build optics than say Korea, Philippines, etc.. I’d guess they’re probably more advanced? I know a guy that sources out cabinetry and they moved the bulk of their business from China to Vietnam a few years ago due to the Chinese factory constantly raising prices last minute, holding orders hostage, actually coming to the states and trying to go direct to their customers and bypass this guys distribution network etc….
He did say it took some time to get the Vietnamese plants up to speed and that the infrastructure, equipment, skill of the workers etc. was nowhere near as modern as the Chinese factories. It’s a global economy, and no way it will ever go back now.
It would be interesting to see what it would cost to build the same exact scope using the same materials to the same specifications in China vs Japan Vs USA Vs Germany.

My curiosity is genuine as well. If Burris can make money selling the highly regarded Philippines made FF series scopes for under 200 bucks, it seems to me that Athlon could make money manufacturing their scopes there as well. The Helos 2-12x42 seems to have a strong following among the 'fire members.

It sells for a tick over $500. What would it sell for if it were made in Korea, the Philippines, Japan, Germany and the USA? The second question is how many would Athlon sell at the price they would have to sell them for if they were made in those countries? The final question is how many sales is Athlon losing because people won't buy a China made scope. Sure, we can't always reasonably avoid stuff made in China, but we can with scopes, and I and many others do. That sentiment is only growing over time as crap like the China spy balloon fiasco continues to occur.

CreditQueen,

Your STUPIDITY doesn't fhuqk with anyone,but your pointy headed self...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

As to the Cackling Hens,fretting the reality of a Global Economy and lauding how their skies are always falling,please continue the raging Estrogen Torrents,of the wares you'd almost buy if you weren't Brokedicks. Balloons are now "SCARY" too?!? Burris has never made a scope worth a fhuqk and seems intent upon keeping that "pace". It is fascinatingly HILARIOUS,how little you Crying Kchunts "know","see" or "do",other than Whine. Hint.

Try prying your kchunts from the couch and actually mashing a trigger. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!.....................

Agree 100% Ed.

I am hearing that it is now cheaper to manufacture stuff in mexico than it is in China. Maybe not long down the road we can look forward to mexican produced optics ! uhh

I think the Chyna factories can produce as good a quality product as the importer is willing to pay for. If the importer doesn’t order and hold to a higher spec, then cheap crap that fails will prevail.

I have an Athlon spotter that I’m satisfied with but rest assured none of my hunting rifles have chyna junk mounted on them.

Your 4th grade grammar teacher needs a genuine bitch slap...

But you do get 10 bonus points for the proper use of the word Brokedick...

Ain't this fun Stick?

Bingo. We (when I worked) bought a lot of structural steel for our major O&G projects from China. We had to "teach" them what we required and plant our inspectors in their shops for QA and they delivered at a substantial savings.

Anyone remember Zen-RAy ?

There's a VaChina hidden under that panty !! and she's marked "made with a VaChina".

Guys,
I know Matt and he's a good guy. He's knowledgeable and willing to assist. Fell free to reach out to him with questions or situations and he will hook you up. He is a tech rep and customer service guy, he is not the guy running the company.

Does a VaChina split side-to-side instead of vertical?

Only been home a coupla hours,but started carving some Mail open. Thus far,only (1) new Custom Rifle. Sister wants a 2-12x on it,which is obviously tough to whoop. Hint.



Likely killing Bears with it tomorrow,while forming cases. Hint.

Try prying your kchunts from the couch and actually mashing a trigger. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!.....................

Those decisions are above my pay grade - sorry guys...

I'm happy to simply shoot results,via wares which I've proven and trust. Hint.



Just sayin'................

You made a good score on that 338 from the looks of it.

It is a VERY sound build and spec'd like I'd of done it. Some of which was easily discerned from afar,the balance glaring once in hand. Hint.

Impetus for me,in said chambering is .650 BC 250 Skinner Smooches for Sister. They kiss at 3.520",which is No Joy in OEM Gut Configuration(3.385" COAL "latitude"). Luckily,MWG once again will come to the rescue with S/S Lego's. If forced,it's easy enough to shim slide Issued Guts,but I'm never not hip on a S/S path to same and such things are warm/fuzzy. Hint.




The components play nicely,if only obviously. Hint.




Hell...it's even Hercules approved! Hint.



Fhuqking LAUGHING!..............

Thanks for the endorsement, Doug - I appreciate.

In addition to helping with tech & customer support, I also manage our 58-member Pro Team & do all of the legwork for the 150+ matches we sponsor each year.

I'm just throwing that out so everyone can get to know me a little better and also explain why I don't have time to respond to every post.

To those of you who have contributed to this thread in a positive way, I want to say thanks. I will continue to sort through the noise so I can be as helpful as possible.

My mailbox is also up and running now, so feel free to contact me that way as well.

Cheers.

You local in Lenexa? I stopped by the Athlon headquarters there once and someone helped me with one of my Cronus scopes.

I know some of the Athlon fellas shot at Mill Creek regularly.

I work out of the HQ office in Olathe - stop by anytime!

Mill Creek is my home range - I usually shoot the monthly 3GUN matches + a few others out there.

Only way to fly and stretching a mag in a 70 ain't never scared me horribly either. That should be a wicked killed once it's all done though. That's a nice rig, I am glad you grabbed it.

I get out to Kearney every once in awhile. Maybe one day I will make the trip to the other side of KC.

Completely understood. It's probably useful for you and your management to know. There is a substantial and growing anti China sentiment among 2A types. Just last week China pulled that stunt cutting one of our battleships off. They are an enemy, and it matters to a lot of shooters.

It's never been difficult to cypher who shoots and who don't,along with the Crying Karens. Hint.

Hit Karen with simplistic Facts and it's FULL fhuqking retreat,with an Avatar change. HINT.



Fhuqking LAUGHING!!!.................

Got to love the Whidden case gauge. Talk about super convenient.
pavementends

Matt, I have a G2 20-60x86 Cronus UHD spotter inbound from Doug.

I was disappointed to learn there is no adapter available to fit a DSLR to the scope. I would love to attach my Nikon D5500 for pics of targets at the range, or of wildlife.

Just something for you to run up the flagpole.

Thanks.

WTH.....you letting Sis slum a Winchester?????? grinning here.

It looks like a heck of a rifle in a heck of a chambering for the AO. I am VERY jealous of the stock. I need to find similar.

Hey Everyone!

We are working on a little project over here at Athlon Optics and I was hoping to get some help from all of you.

We are assembling a collection of links to reviews that have been published on Athlon products (Video, Written, etc.).

If you come across a review, please post a link here. It would be greatly appreciated!

Here's one I just found on the HERAS SPR 6-24X56 (to get us started) - https://industryoutsider.com/athlon-heras-spr-6-24x56-aplr9-ffp-ir-moa-review/


Thank you

Idaho Shooter just purchased a Athlon Cronus spotting scope.
Box says MADE IN CHINA
What’s the real TRUTH?

NWT

The only Athlon optics made in Japan are the Cronus riflescopes

I would ship it back to whoever sold it to you.
NWT

https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/athlon-helos-btr-gen2-2-12x42mm-field-eval.289757/

Ugh… another 6-24x56 size queen.
Btw, Thanks for the reply regarding the need for a lower powered scopes for hunters (sarcasm)

Welcome to the sight and thank you for offering a superior product. Your hard work is appreciated

Hello Matt
I’ve been using the 2-12 mil helos and really like the scope.
THE reason for that exact scope is due to the size of the center dot. Works great for hunting.
All in all a very good package and the three I have are very repeatable when dialing.
I do wish Athlon would offer a similar style and sized reticle in some of there other scopes.

Recently got ahold of the Athlon Helos 2-12. It's going on a lefty Rem 700 270win. Been awhile since I purchased rings/bases and need to source a set. The only optics I have that are comparable are Nightfarce, USO, Burris, Sightron, and Primary Arms.

Congrats on your purchase of a Cronus G2 spotter - recently named "Optic of the Year" at the Industry Choice Awards! I'm sure you will be very impressed - especially at the price point. As stated above, the only Athlon products that are manufactured in Japan are our Cronus rifle scopes. Everything we sell, however, goes through our QC lab in Olathe, KS before it is shipped out. Let us know what you think after you get a little time behind it.

I would recommend a set of Athlon Precision rings. Our 30mm versions are available in Low (.89"), Medium (1.05"), and MSR (1.443") heights.

As stated above, the only Athlon products that are manufactured in Japan are our Cronus rifle scopes. Everything we sell, however, goes through our QC lab in Olathe, KS before it is shipped out.

Athlon:
You are missing the point completely!! Most of us could care less about your CHINESE GOVERNMENT made products being quality checked in a USA facility.
The entire problem is the Athlon products you are supporting and pushing in America are made by the CHINESE COMMUNIST PARTY read the CCP. In case you have missed it , the CHINESE COMMUNIST GOVERNMENT who owns Athlon wants to destroy our countries way of life. This includes the shooting sports and hunting. Not sure why any American would get in bed with a CCP company in today’s world when there are so many better choices. F*** the CCP
NWT

Thanks. I wasn't aware there were rings available. What is the weight on them like. Med or heavy?

Medium

Athlon Optics Midas ED 8x42

https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/the-best-binoculars/

No America loving 2A supporter should EVER link the NYT.

I understand what you are saying and don't disagree.... but the only reason communist china is an actual threat to us is because our politicians sold us out.
Started with Nixon, then advanced big time by Clinton then GWB pushed for normalized trade status for them. Then our corporations sent all our factory jobs over to China and profits shot through the roof and the stock market cheered.
Now we have NWO pedophiles running the show....
So in the grand scheme of things purchasing a Chinese scope or two doesn't move the needle at all.
The biggest threat to us and our way of life is homegrown. Want to make a difference boycott Budweiser

Amen

I can understand your aversion. Honest question… So I assume Athlon has some type of durability testing of their own that is more uniformly standardized? Please share with us. What kind of impact and or reliability testing does Athlon perform?

Maybe the china scope haters are looking at this all wrong... they should consider the highest and best use for a quality china made scope would be to snipe a few commies if they ever decide to invade...
And Matt, I am pretty sure is an American, with a family and that is a good thing to support!!!!

I test and break stuff for a living (.mil COTS and spaceflight), and most manufacturers won't release details on specifics of internal testing they do. I can think up some test programs that would be applicable, but it would be interesting to see some transparency in the test standards, procedure details, and sample size tested.

The "Rokslide test" is...yeah. Very arbitrary and likely not especially repeatable.

I don’t necessarily need to see the exact test, but I want to know that some impact/durability/zero retention testing was done! I’d venture a guess that most manufacturers do none at all! They could show us what that means the scope is then capable of. You ever seen any of the Nightforce torture test videos? I’m not saying things need to be taken to that extreme, but I will tell you this, I will only purchase scopes that come from manufacturers that do durability/impact/zero retention testing. As a consumer, I believe that should be a minimum standard we should expect. Instead, most manufacturers seem to avoid the matter altogether. I hope that isn’t what’s happening here?

I suspect all manufacturers do recoil based zero retention testing, and that is indeed enough to serve most shooters well. I wonder what percentage of game is killed each year with the scopes you worship. 1% maybe? That means the other scopes "work."

So just because an automobile has a motor that runs and tires that turn, that’s enough for you? Of course a scope should hold up to recoil, that’s a given, and no it’s not enough! Personally, I want a car that has also been crash tested. Durability after impact matters to me, just like it does with scopes.

Your point that 99% of other scopes work is bunk. More like 99% of consumers are too dumb to know better and demand more. But that’s changing. People are becoming more informed and demanding better durability. Fancy features, pretty glass, flashy marketing (warranties) and recoil testing alone aren’t gonna cut it. Scope manufacturers will need to adjust accordingly. It won’t happen overnight, but it will happen. It’s starting. Manufacturers that continue to ignore the matter of impact testing and zero retention will lose share to those who embrace the concept. It’s a good thing.

It's not bunk. It's fact as is evidenced by dead animals.

As to the rest of your post, an insignificant number of internet nerds are on a bandwagon. The masses will continue to buy scopes that work for them.

Yep! Fixed it for ya.

The only company I remember doing testing and advertising it was Leupold. Seems they lost share to everyone. Marketing is a game and I tend to discredit marketers. Independent unknown folks using stuff and reporting their experiences is not much better.

Obviously you put yourself in the elite 1%, so how did you get there?

Bro, it's the internet; you can be anybody you wanna be.

Yep. I've culled more big game animals than that clown will in 10 lifetimes, without an SWFA, NF, etc. A statement like that is laughable at best.

Hahaha. Predictable. Nothing of substance to add so you take it down to personal attacks. As if you knew anything about me. If you did, you’d know how wrong you are!

Happy Father’s Day everyone. Hug your kids!

Read enough of your idiotic posts to know you're an idiot.

It has taken a substantial number of bandwagon posts both here and on Rokslide, but he has arrived!

Matt,

Welcome to the 🔥! Thanks for providing a great product at a great price point. I’ll ignore all other comments and just leave it at that.

Apologies if it was mentioned somewhere in these 11 pages, but if you’re jotting down wish list items, I’d ask for a 1” line similar to the defunct line of Leupold VX-Rs (illuminated).

The used ones are selling like hotcakes at substantial prices. There are many of us who would like to run what looks like the traditional 1” scopes on lever guns and hard kickers. Traditional size and looks with modern features. If you’ve ever set a bear bait, you know how illumination is a great feature to have. A coup,e years ago, I had to turn on illumination to put the bead on an axis deer in TX.


Regards,
Bob

Hey Bob,

Thanks for the positive feedback!

Thanks also for your input on product development.

I've seen a lot of great ideas on this thread and I always pass them up the chain of command.

Hey All,

Thank you for some good discussion on a very important topic!

We are definitely on the same page when it comes to the importance of conducting impact testing, resilience, and return-to-zero capabilities.

Pretty much everyone in our office hunts (and/or) shoots competitively (and/or) has served in law enforcement or the military (myself included).

We all use the products we make because they work and because they stand up to the tasks we put them through.

We have a lifetime warranty on all of our products because stuff happens. We do not, however, use that warranty as a backstop for poor Quality Control.

Numerous tests are conducted on our optics before they ever leave the manufacturer.

We also have a QC lab at our headquarters in Olathe, KS that includes a recoil machine and multiple collimators.

We also conduct the Nightforce test () on various products multiple times every week. The only qualifier I would add is that instead of slamming our scopes on a metal surface, we slam them on a wood surface.

As a 3GUN competitor, I am pretty hard on my equipment (lots of throwing guns into barrels) and I have never had a single issue with any of my Athlon Optics or mounts.

I hope that helps.

Thank you for the response! Greatly appreciated!

👍

The eye box is the weak link with Athlon.

Many other things to like (clarity, repeatable dialing, durability, price point), but the eye box is as bad as they come IMHO. I will not be buying more until that matter is solved.

I'm curious about which particular scope you are referencing (and what you are comparing it to) ???

I switched from an ATACR 1-8 to a Cronus 1-6 on my 3GUN AR when I started working at Athlon and have found the eye box to be more forgiving on my Cronus.

Here is a link to a review that was posted a few days ago. It includes some drop test, impact, and return-to-zero results.

https://americangunfacts.com/athlon-heras-spr-4-20x50-sfp-scope-review/

2-12 Helos... It is simply awful.

In fairness, I will look around locally for a Cronus 1-6 before further comment.

Couldn't disagree more......love mine.

I've been scratching my head on this one. I've gotten rid of multiple scopes due to critical eye boxes, but the four 2-12x Helos I have are as easy to get behind as any scopes I've used. They seem plenty forgiving to me...

I wouldn’t mount an Athlon on anythi9g even if it was free.

The Cronus 1-6 is my favorite scope that we make - the glass is incredible and the reticle is incredibly intuitive.

I hesitate to say this, but I'm going to anyway... 90% of the warranty claims we process are because our scopes were mounted incorrectly (usually torqued too tight). Most eye box issues are also due to having a setup that is incorrect. Here is a great video from Veteran Sniper and Long-Range Shooting Instructor Ryan Cleckner that can help resolve eye box issues - regardless of what brand of optic you use -

Would mounting incorrectly cause a locking windage turret to pop up on every shot?

What’s too tight? Say I use Nightforce rings at their suggested 25 in lbs, or ARC rings at their suggested 55 in lbs?

Anything over and above the mfg specs.

Whose specs? The rings or the scope’s specs? They often have very different recommendations. Swaro and Vortex, for example, say something like a max of only 17 and 18”lbs for their scopes. Who do I listen to? Plus different screws/hardware impart dramatically different clamping force. In the example video of the pro above, how much torque does he use with those manly fingers of his?

My point in all this is, it’s arbitrary. So I want a scope with a tube thick enough to handle some room to err on the side of tighter is “better than looser.”

If 90% of warranty claims came from one “problem” I’d think that would be telling the manufacturer something. Either 90% of consumers are inept (possibly true) or something needs a design change.

They will dance around this issue, because their tubes are paper thin. Anything under 20 inch pounds is risking scope slip. You clamp some of these scopes to 25 inch pounds, and the side parallax freezes up. 55 inch lb will twist them up like a pretzel.

I would (strongly) guess 90% of the people mounting scopes don't have a torque driver, have no clue they exist, and think "tight enough isn't tight enough, let's give it another crank". I have read from some other manufacturers that most of their returns are due to mounting improperly, so it's not an Athlon-only problem, but it's a hard one to solve as you're stuck with a given tube OD (1" or 30mm most of the time), increasing tube thickness means less space for components inside, and you're dealing with a low-skill user base in general. Changing alloys may mitigate it a bit, but not significantly I'd think.

I know Swaro is known for thin scope tube walls and March is known for very thick ones - would be interesting to see a data-driven chart listing wall thickness between manufacturers and scope lines.

No disagreement. I just know which side I want to be on as a consumer. And as a manufacturer that would also tell me what I should be working on. If 90% of your customers are consistently doing something one way and it’s causing a problem, who’s wrong?

The ring maker's specs, obviously.

What if the ring maker’s specs conflict with the scope makers specs?

I'd try the lower value.

So what? If this is too complicated for you, take up another hobby.

Haha, this is fun.

Thanks, but I’d rather just use a scope I know can handle it.

Just tighten the ring screws till you see sparks and then give them another half turn.

Scopes cost more than rings, follow the scope manufacturers rec. I've saw several ring sets that even say that in their instructions. There are plenty of ways to keep a scope from moving in the rings. Or as mathman said, default to the lower of the two settings. I've never used ARC rings but any maker who recommends twice or more torque than what most other manufactures recommend would have me thinking about the quality of the product, regardless of cost.

Dave.

This is such a good entertainment.

The reason the value is higher with ARC rings is surface area; they're significantly larger than most standard rings, and only use one screw per ring, so the compression of the rings is more evenly spread out than smaller rings with 4 screws per ring. Companies like ARC, Area419, NEAR, etc are going to have a better idea of the clamping force their rings create than a scope manufacturer who has no idea if you're going to run a one-piece Spuhr or some of those super-skinny junk rings everyone bought back in the 80s, so the scope maker is going to default to a lower torque value to keep warranty returns down.

For argument's sake, if I bought a set of CABABALIANG or Zeqwhusga (generic Chicom face-roll brand name) scope rings from Amazon that called out 55 in-lbs, I'd toss the directions in the trash and go with the standard 18 in-lbs.

There are some cluless snowflakes here. No wonder they have to shoot fenced in animals. Don’t need a scope that works for that. Just get em into a fence corner. Laffin.

Apparently some do, but how many scopes even have ring torques available?

I admire your patience amigo, trying to talk sense to this crowd and all. I didn’t have it in me.

Have you ever posted a pic on this board of anything you've killed ?

I would never.

It doesn’t take brains to kill a fenced animal. It does however take brains to pick a scope that works.

He's an internet expert.

Right on Paul......all mouth and lip service.......what a surprise.

I literally laughed out loud when I read this. Good one!

I use two ultra narrow strips of lead tape... sliced as thin as I can (1mm or so) in my rings and torque to the ring specs...

https://www.mcmaster.com/products/tape/material~lead/

I had old stock "lead string" from a very old gunsmith, but it is all used up now...

Sounds impressive... I would like to look thru one someday...

I did NOT throw Athlon entirely under the bus... there is much to like at the cost Doug sold them... it is only the Eye Box that I find unacceptable.

Doug sold me a bunch of Minox HD ZA5 1.2-6... their Eye Box is as good as a S&B, Kahles et al...

HOWEVER some of the recitals "slip" on the Minox... so damn... another weak link scope.

The 2-12x BTR Gen 2's forgiving nature,connects all dots,for those who actually shoot. Hint.

The only fhuqking thing that goes inside rings,are scope tubes. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!..............

Not all of us like to use three, four or five scope rings to mount a scope...

Pardon wares that exist,as you "shoot" your mouth and Imagination. Hint.




Fhuqking LAUGHING!................

So let me get this straight, Ring manufactures set torque values to prevent stripping the screws in their rings, scope manufactures set the torque value to prevent crushing the scope tube. Am I missing something or is this just a slow day for conflict?

no no , you are not missing anything.

Today. Hint.



Not all wares are "equal",nor close. Hint.

410600's and Swiffer rings,with a BTR Gen2 2-12x,to the rescue. Hint.................

Stick...

Your skill with the use of colored electrical tape is UNMATCHED.

It has been extraordinary to see your tape wrapping technique improve so dramatically over the past decade.

You guys are great I'm taking a few days off for the 4th - will re-engage when I get back. Be safe !!!

Yep, "farmer tight" is the way to go.

That can't be today... It's a Leupold scope. Or is it just for lapping? (Grin)

Go with what the scope manufacturer says. Athlon recommends 18-20 in/lbs on all of our scopes.

You know, You’d think there would be an industry standard. Where both the scope and rings are to be torqued within couple inch/lbs of each other where you won’t crush the tube like vortex which is like 15in/lbs? and some rings want 20 in/lbs

It would seem that ring bearing surface, number of screws, screw size, and thread pitch would all effect the pressure (force per unit area) on the scope.

Scope manufacturers could specify alowable pressure, and ring makers could list pressures across the alowed torque range and maximum torque to prevent thread failure.

That just makes too much sense and wouldn’t be any fun! Then what would we argue about? As an alternative, the scope manufacturer could also state the torque values specified with a particular recommended ring. Which I don’t think I’ve ever seen, even with in-house rings. Again, I guess that level of clarity is asking too much?

Which is what makes most of what scope manufacturers put out just laughable. Without specifics, and the inherent variability of different ring options, these figures are meaningless. So top quality ARC rings at 55 or even Nightforce at 25 would void my Athlon (or Vortex, or Swarovski) warranty and/or be deemed misuse? When I see torque values (especially wimpy ones) mentioned as a max that a scope manufacturer states, that tells me everything I need to know. Pass.

I suppose the best one could do these days would be to use the same manufacturer’s scope AND rings. That way there’s no room for interpretation? But what about scopes, like Swaro, who list a torque value (wimpy af!) and yet don’t make rings? Haha, the horror!

Still a battle in your little brain about minor things. I've been big game hunting for 52 years, and have been mounting scopes that long as well. I've never had one single issue with scopes not working correctly when not using the cheater bar mentality on scope ring mounts, ever. That includes Athlon, Arken, Leupy, Meopta, Bushy Elite, Burris, S&B, Zeiss, and Swaro 1" and 30mm tubes. It ain't that hard.

Good talk. Resorting to insults because you have nothing of value to add to the conversation.

I like precision and details matter. As a consumer, a higher level is expected and deserved these days. Fudd on buddy.

I've got experience and pics to prove it, you don't, but keep on reading internet stuff.

Haha, if you only knew.

Says the guy who can't even figure out how to torque a scope ring........keep going, you're doing great!

Lol! You totally missed the entire point of this. All my questions are rhetorical, mixed with intentional cynicism, satire and admittedly snarky posts. Went right over your head.

I’m always willing to learn but I don’t think the additional figuring out is for me on this process. I know what to use and how to use it. IMO, the figuring is now up to scope manufactures to do better. It’s not for me, it’s probably not even for you, it’s for the legions of hunters new and old who are setting up their stuff wrong and or getting lousy results because of inadequate, insufficient or incorrect specifics from manufacturers and potential damage due to lesser build quality. It shouldn’t be acceptable anymore.

When 90% of warranty returns (you heard it here) come from one thing, there’s a problem somewhere. Lack of information or a build quality issue. Across the industry, both need attention.

All mouth, no cattle.

How many times do you have to repeat “righty tighty lefty loosey” in your head while having a go at those ever so tricky fasteners?

As the rep said, 90% of the general public need to be spoon fed their mush or it’ll end up on their shirt, and here you are removing any doubt

Please make more ffp scopes with smaller capped windage adjustments and a reticle that you can use fir wind hold offs. I prefer mil/mil. I bought one of your 4-16 models that has capped windage but the cap is still pretty large. I get really frustrated with the number of actions these days that throw brass into the windage knob.

Bb

Ladies,

Rifles ONLY shoot loose and NEVER tight. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint.

Only within the safety net of barbed wire strands,are all things "equal" and without failure. Reality ain't as forgiving and having 100's of scopes,under actual Real World use,do set trends. Ring spacing and increased surface area,are scopes(ALL scopes) best friend. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint.

'Horn rings steal the fhuqking show and nothing else begins to come even close,for protecting scope internals and maximizing same. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint.

It's been (2) days since I've mounted a NIB rifle and NIB scope with same. Nice to throw a total of 60MOA inclination,into the equation. Hint.






To yield a 200yd zero with 147 Smooches,required a 3.4 Mil correction,from bottom of total erector travel. Windage was Skookum and untouched. NOTHING grips and centers a tube,like 'Horns. Hint.







I'm thinking there's Fresh Glass in a coupla parcels,which arrived in yesterday's Mail. Hint.



Film at 11:00...fhuqking LAUGHING!................

Would you expound upon that please ?

Actual use and the culmination of actual Trigger Time,have an acute way of shaking schit loose(fasteners). That whether action fasteners and/or optics fasteners,none of which "bolsters" performance. Barbed Wire Safe Queen Schit,is more than a touch forgiving,due the opposite reason(s). Hint.

CORRECT initial assembly,is THE lifeguard and insured by wares that will actually take a fhuqking lick,do a ruggedly reliable system make. Hint.















Few could begin to fhuqking fathom the magnitude. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!................

ok , I see what you mean.

The conflict comes in when manufacturers build their scope tubes out of toilet paper rolls, then blame the consumer when there's a scope problem. AKA Athlon and Leupold.

This is rich coming from a Texan who posts photos of someone else's trophy room.

My short experience with the Aries etr 4.5-30 x56 is positive might be the Butterbean of rifle scopes big and heavy But it gets the job done everytime , never sighted a rifle In So easy fired a shot used the the hash marks to count the Mils fired a second shot then fired two more to confirm and was done … bloody awesome

Your statement is absolutely true. And I think your idea is a GREAT one!

Hi Ben,

Glad to hear you are enjoying your Helos 2-12's - those are very versatile scopes! As far as batteries go, I don't know what you are running, but I've always had the best luck with Energizer Lithiums. Any other battery recommendations out there?

That’s what I’m using. I thought I had left the illumination on inadvertently but simply having the battery in results in a dead battery.

If your illumination isn't working and you've already tried swapping out the batteries, just send it in and we will repair or replace it under our lifetime warranty. Click the warranty image on the homepage of our website and it will take you to a form you can fill out and return with your scope.

Our warranty department will take care of you from there!

I’ll do that after this hunting season. Thanks

Mike

Got an 2-12 but I'm wanting to find one of the Athlon fixed 10x scopes.

I saw the fixed 10x on your website a night or two ago. Is this available yet and are there any plans to release more fixed power options?

We are accepting orders awaiting our 1st delivery

Might Could Interest A Few. Hint................

Thanks, interesting read.

Thanks.

That's funny. Linking the site that several of us have pointed to for good, no methbilly jargon information.

The best part is, you know there don't be any because he can't post there.

Electronic Hurt Feeler Reports Filed Here. Hint.

Keep the VERY well founded Insecurities coming,as you set on the sidelines of Life,Whining aloud and "living" vicariously. Hint.



Fhuqking LAUGHING!.................

You still sticking with the lie that you never posted on AR15.com?

You should post in that March review thread on Snipers Hide.

Oh, wait.....

🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣🖕

Till they booted him out and barred the doors. Hint

Ladies,

Electronic Hurt Feeler Reports Filed Here. Hint.

I'm VERY "Surprised!" to learn your version(s) of Life are sooooooo "rewarding",that it is spent looking for my footprints. How many times a day,do you think about me? HINT.

Fortunately for you gals,Imagination,Pretend and riding the bleachers are free,so even you "lucky" kchunts can "afford" to "contribute". Pardon wares that exist. Hint.



Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............

Who gives a Flying F how many boxes of scopes you have!
Hate to brake it you as you’re little slow. But it’s no one, and I mean, NO ONE cares about your same old pics.
Wish fire would kick you out like other forums.

Pretty sure my "nothing" beats being short, fat, and needing triple digit chi-com scopes to try and be happy.

🤣😂🤣😂🖕🖕🖕

Ladies,

Electronic Hurt Feeler Reports Filed Here. Hint.

Perhaps if you held hands,closed your eyes and wished upon a Star(me),while saying you "don't care",it would "work"! That water color painting of schit floating,is fhuqking HILARIOUS! Hint.



Fortunately for you gals,Imagination,Pretend and riding the bleachers are free,so even you "lucky" kchunts can "afford" to "contribute". Pardon wares that exist. Hint.



Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............

Surprise Surprise…Same old repeating verbiage and same old pics. Wow, what a shocker! It’s funny, predictable and pathetic all at the same time.
Even a retard knows how to take a hint…. But That’s giving you too much credit. Hint

He does his own warranty program for when they crap out. Either that or wait for the next cargo ship from Xi land.

Ladies,

Electronic Hurt Feeler Reports Filed Here. Hint.

Reupold Warranty work. Hint.







Thelma and Louise,do NOT "forget" that Imitation is THE most Sincere form of Flattery. Pardon my powers being so GREAT,that you need to "borrow" the punctuation. I know it isn't fair,but pardon wares that exist,as you Melting Snowflakes try to console each other's Hurt Feelers. Good "luck" on THAT! Hint.



Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............

Just got an Argos HMR that will not focus…guess I get to try out there warranty but I’m not happy as I haven’t got a single shot from it…

I hear good thangs about the BTR Gen 2 '12x FFP Mil/Mil Lit Bitches. Hint................

Stick which 34mm rings are you liking for your herd of Arkens

They’re a few bucks off so might give one a shot

I think rather highly of their rings,as they've really been exceptional. Hint..............

Copy that

You have to order a least a dozen to get a good one

Pictures don’t lie and worth a thousand hints

Ladies,

I've "only" shot a couple dozen BTR Gen 2 FFP Mil/Mil '12X's and patiently await the first "issue",with barely a few hunnert scopes in whole to reflect upon in extrapolation. Hint.

Rest ASSURED,that the heartfelt Whine from those who "do" the least,sure is fhuqking soothing. Perhaps stomp your feet,to add some Hissy to your Fit?!? Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!..............

Athlon Introduces 8 New Products!

Click any of the product names below to link to our website and learn more...

Ares ETR 15-60x56 UHD MOA

Unlock your inner marksman with the Ares ETR UHD 15-60x56. Precision work from the shooting bench calls for precision scope. Designed for bench rest, F-Class or any shooter striving for the perfect group, the fine second focal plane BLR1 reticle alleviates target obstruction to ensure an ultra-precise aiming point.

Heras SPR 15-60x56 SFP MOA

The Heras SPR 15-60x56 pushes the envelope with features previously unheard of at this price point. The Heras SPR 15-60x56 is specifically engineered for precision applications, including Bench Rest, F-Class, or any shooter striving for the perfect group. The fine second focal plane BLR2 reticle alleviates target obstruction to ensure an ultra-precise aiming point.

Talos BTR GEN2 10x42 Fixed MOA

A precision mid-to-long range optic with features normally found on high-end riflescopes. The simple design of the fixed 10X power magnification produces an incredibly robust optic suitable for standard and magnum calibers. A 10-yard minimum to infinity parallax adjustment and an extensive elevation adjustment range suits rimfire and airgun enthusiasts as well! Featuring a new turret design and our Precision Zero Stop system, the GEN2 provides sharper, more tactile clicks with a quick-hard stop when returning to zero.

Talos BTR GEN2 10x42 Fixed MIL

A precision mid-to-long range optic with features normally found on high-end riflescopes. The simple design of the fixed 10X power magnification produces an incredibly robust optic suitable for standard and magnum calibers. A 10-yard minimum to infinity parallax adjustment and an extensive elevation adjustment range suits rimfire and airgun enthusiasts as well! Featuring a new turret design and our Precision Zero Stop system, the GEN2 provides sharper, more tactile clicks with a quick-hard stop when returning to zero.

Neos 3-9x40 Straight-wall BDC

Whether your state requires it or you enjoy hunting with straight-wall cartridges, the Neos straight-wall scope will help you get the most out of these modern and classic calibers. Designed for calibers such as the 350 Legend, 450 Bushmaster, and 45-70 Gov you'll easily extend your range this season. The Neos' 40mm objective minimimizes your rifle's weight while increasing light transmission by incorporating proprietary lens coatings and glass quality not typically found at this price!

Cronus G2 UHD 7-42x Tactical Spotting Scope (with ranging reticle)

Whether you are a long-range shooter or hunter, the Cronus Tactical G2 UHD 7-42x60 spotting scope with our ranging reticle will make your job a breeze. Featuring a first focal plane reticle and a comprehensive magnification range to achieve the perfect balance of mil-based feedback and field of view, you'll make every shot count.

Midas Flash Red Dot (with RMR footprint)

Rugged, ready, and built for today's most popular micro-optic footprint, the Midas Flash is RMR compatible. The Midas Flash incorporates Athlon's Motion-sensor technology to rapidly activate the red dot from sleep mode. Combined with 50,000 hours of battery life, the Midas Flash is ready for duty, self-defense, and competition use.

Tripod Saddle Mount

Athlon’s Saddle Mount adds a range of options to any tripod system that utilizes an Arca-style mount – especially Athlon’s new line of carbon fiber tripods. This tactical saddle vise features an extremely smooth adjustment dial, side and bottom pads for recoil reduction, a clamping range of 1.1 – 2.6 inches, and still manages to maintain a weight of 3.5 oz. Our unique 7-degree inward-facing clamp design makes our saddle much more compatible with traditional rifle stocks than the designs of other manufacturers.

FYI, all these new products are in stock on our website except the Tactical Spotter which we have on order and should have shortly

I like the Athlon stuff I've tried, but the Athlon saddle mount is $150, and the Bog Pod version ( I've had one for 4 years now and it works great) is $70. What am I missing?

If you've had it for 4 years and it's all good then this might not be significant, however, the biggest difference is the Athlon has not one piece of plastic on the whole piece. It is well put together and sort of in a different class all together as most accessory items.

I'd like to see an 8x fixed with about a 40 mm objective and parallax adjustment down to 10 yards. A nice milquad style reticle and a small capped windage dial. A forgiving eyebox like a leupold 6x42 would. E nice and so would hd glass. Make it rugged and air gun rated. Kund of like the sfwa ss fixed but with 8x I wouldn't have to decide between 6x or 10x I'd just ho with 8x every time.

Bb

I think that's a great idea! I will pass it up the chain of command.

I like the 8x idea. I just got your 10x last week and have it mounted but have not used it yet. Since you don't make a 6x, and they are popular around these parts, consider a 7x or 8x similar to you 10x. I know I would buy at least one of them. I like the reticle on the 10x with the little I have played with it, so I would keep it the same or put the 2-12 reticle in there. That would be ideal for squirrels in the top of trees.

The 2-12x BTR Gen2 Mil/Mil LitBitch is simply fhuqking EXCEPTIONAL and more than covers these Goat Fhuqk Notions. Hint.

It plays well on all action lengths,is forgiving in all avenues and simply connect all mechanical dots. The Daylight Bright Illumination is wayyyyyyyyy ahead of the fhuqking curve,as are locking turrets and mechanical zero stop,which when combined with the etched reticle,crush all else. 10yd parallax control and 35+ Mil's of erector travel,make it not even "fair". Hint.

Near/far,with zero fhuqks or concessions given,do tend to RULE the roost. In reflection and talking fixed 6's and 10's,I've had well over 100 of 'em through the years and none can touch the 2-12x. Hint.............

Stick,
What is your opinion of the 4-20x50 BTR? Reticle as useful as the 2-12?

The 4-20x and 2-12x are WORLD's apart,as Utility goes. I liken the '20x to Giggles Glass,slated to Play Toys,which isn't outright condemnation. It is farrrrrrrrrr more fickle in eye-relief,eyebox,relative quickness and PALES in versatility,as Killing Glass goes. Now as a Play Toy goes,it might could appeal to some,but I'm slow to get painted in a corner. Hint.

The '20x's center is but 1/6th of the '12's diameter. That might be fair to middlin' on a Play Toy,but it gets UGLY quick,for Killing in The Real World. The 12x's Day Bright Illumination is simply fhuqking SENSATIONAL. Hint.








Less is soooooooooo fhuqking much MORE. Hint..................

Agree with above. I like the 4-20 fine but the 2-12 is a great set up on a hunting gun. They both dial and work like scopes costing about 3x more.

2- 4-20’s and 5 - 2-12’s so far. They make stuff pretty easy.

Anyone fooled with the Cronus line?

FYI, if you've got access to ExpertVoice (veteran, LEO, EMS etc) the Helos gen2 2-12 mil model came back in stock. 😁

My son wanted matching scopes on his hunting rifle and .22, and the new one also tracks perfectly. For under $400 you can't really beat it, and, if anything, it's better on the .22, which is already a heavy boat anchor.

Edit: Helos 2-12

Interesting thread.

It is, but you feel like you need a shower after buying a Chinese scope.

☹️

the answer may be in this thread somewhere I apologize if it is but here's my question

in the Gen 2 Helos versus Talos btr just what is the difference is it just the one has locking turret and the other does not?
or anything more than that

Care to expound on that statement?

For my part, I understand that there's likely Chinese parts in a lot of scopes I've owned and still have. But I still have an aversion to directly supporting the CCP via buying a rifle scope if I can help it. I research COO to the extent I'm able, and I will continue to buy as little Chicom content as I can.

Not to get all sanctimonious over it, just stating my viewpoint on the situation. Everyone has their reasons to do what they do.

Yeah, I hadn't bought any chinese scopes since getting the original gen2 Helos 2-12, but my little guy really wanted the same scope on his Bergara B14r as he has on his hunting rifle, and it seemed like a good idea for lots of reasons.

So, you down with CCP?

The 2-12 FFP mil/mil would be a perfect fit for a longish range ML I'm working on, but I just can't do it. Hoping that other companies take notice of the popularity of this model and offer similarliy configured scopes.

Well current events have most of us wanting to deal less with the ChiComs, covid, fentanyl, IP theft are good reasons.

I could jump up on a high horse and say we don't sell any ChiCom scopes.

But I do sell ChiCom made thermals so that would be hypocritical.

Complicated world these days and I sure prefer to not send dollars to Xi but sometimes the way our trade is entertwined it's buy ChiCom or go without.

Translation: As long as I make money on the transaction, Chinesium is 👌.

I'd buy the JP made stuff, but not the CN made stuff.

Brother Burns is a player in da game.

So, mounted and zero'd the Helos 2-12 this morning, then went shooting with a friend outside this afternoon.

He has a Athlon Ares ETR 3-18x50 APRS6 FFP IR MIL UHD on his 6mm Creedmoor and I made the mistake of looking at ExpertVoice for deals.

The Ares glass makes the Helos glass look like hot garbage. It was on par with the nightforce and gen3 Razor.

One is inbound to check out.

If you're a LEO or vet, it's still a deal through tomorrow. 😉

@goalie,

Thanks! Just ordered one. Reviews are near 100% 5 star.

I've had an Ares BTR on my CTR 6.5CM for a couple of years now and it's been great. So has the Helos that rides on my McWhorter 7-08. They work as advertised IME......just the way it is.

where do you think the glass quality of a Arken EPL or ep5 comparison those two athlon models

To my 63 yr old eyeballs, the EPL4 is on par with the Ares, easily. Then again I don't have any problem with the Helos optics at all either.

thanks for that opinion

👍👍👍

I ordered the ETR, the BTR goes for about $300 less retail price. They're both awesome, but this glass is better than the BTR I've used.

ETR

BTR

The Helos is great for hunting, but the glass difference compared to more expensive scopes is noticable to me, especially past 800

A shower and your head examined

As little as he shoots, he could put a toilet paper roll atop his gun, and he wouldn’t notice a difference.

The whole shoot, measure with reticle how far down and left you are, dial, shoot again, and, bam, zero'd nuts-on thing made it less traumatic though.

😉

Yes, you nailed it there Mr Internet commando.

GFY

Which one do you have, the 2.5-15 or the 4.5-27?

Happy New Year Buddy

You too. I hope you realize the GFY was directed at someone else. 😉

I might shoot a little

I was kind of under the impression the differences in the two models where they reticles.. am I wrong I guess I am

You'll notice how they tout the glass in the description of the ETR series on their website as their UHD glass like the Cronus line, and don't on the BTR, which has (really good) HD glass. That's the price difference, not the reticle.

,👍

4.5x27. I personally don't use 34mm tubes which is why I use this over the ETR. It's on my CTR 6.5CM that I fool around with dialing and whacking pigs mostly. I've culled a few whitetail does with it as well.

That and the 34mm vs 30mm tube on the BTR. My son has the Cronus on his CTR 260Rem. It's fantastic all the way around.

How easy is it to get behind in prone or "odd" positions? Pretty forgiving eye box, or no? I've only looked through the 2.5-15, and a friend was asking about the 4.5-27 and I've never looked through one. He likes the higher top end magnification.

If I may ask, why no 34mm tubes? Weight?

am I understand this later conversation correct ETR versus BTR is also 30 mm tube versus 34 mm tube?

Yes. 34mm tube on the Ares ETR line, including the 1-10x LPVO

30mm tubes give me all the adjustment I'm interested in, that's all. That BTR is a bit finicky at max mags, like lots of scopes are. I don't really need 27x, but the view at 22-24x is quite nice and easy to use so that's about where it maxes out for me. As long as I can kill what I'm shooting at, at the magnification I need, I don't sweat it too much.

Yeah, and, it's been my experience that some higher mag scopes have a great eye box at, say 18x (on a scope with a 25-30x top end) compared to a scope maxed at 18x.

My buddy does the prairie dog thing a lot more than I do, and I think he considers a 6-30x "lower power" these days.....

They shipped today from that deal

Short deviation from the current discussion, but this seems like the right place for a shout out to Athlon's customer service. While moving a Helos Gen 2 2-12x from one rifle to another, I somehow knocked the scope out of the open lower ring halves and the scope bounced off a granite bar top, and then a steel bar stool, before hitting the floor (my version of a 42" drop test ) Inspection showed a flat spot on the end of the objective bell and a couple of gouges in the tube.

Acknowledging the likely cosmetic only damage, I emailed Athlon describing my stupidity. I told them I would like the tube replaced whether covered by warranty or not, and I'd happily pay for the repairs. They said to send it in, though it likely wouldn't pass their testing, and they'd let me know warranty status.

I just received the scope back (about 1 month). I initially thought they replaced the entire scope as I couldn't tell it from new. On closer inspection, the exterior lense surfaces aren't as clean as a new scope would be (more like how they would have been when I sent it in). It appears they did (at minimum) replace the tube at no charge to me.

That's a better response than I expected and I'm quite pleased with the outcome...

That's good to hear. A friend sent a Helos 2-12 back because it didn't track anywhere near where it should and they replaced it with a new one.

Initial impression is good on the Ares. I didn't realize it was only a zero stop on the elevation turret. My Helos' have locking elevation and windage, so it was a surprise to me that only the windage locks on this, but I like it, especially for it's intended use.

As with the one I tried out before I ordered this, the glass in the Ares is noticeably better than the Helos glass I have, which may or may not matter in good conditions, but 100% won't suck in poor light. I'm going to use one of those 100 yard resolution cards to compare at the range and how big of a difference there really is in resolution.

8x42 Binos, UHD….Argos, Midas, Cronus….other than where they’re made (not getting into that), what’s major differences/pros/cons between them that are even noticeable for the $? For the $, I’m planning a pair of Argos, just because there’s little to lose (it would seem). Interested to know what’s what, going upward in the line.

Thanks

I've never even seen Athlon binos, so I can't say anything about glass quality differences between the product lines.

I directed that at the thread starter/Athlon guru.

👍

I just didn't want you to think the glass difference I saw between the Helos and Ares applies to binos, because I have no idea if it does or not.

I'd like to see the Heras 15-60 with a simple dot reticle. Something along the lines of Valdada's floating dot reticle would be perfect.

And the Helos 1-4.5x with UHD glass

Anybody have the Argos HMR 2-12x42 - BDC 600A SFP MOA scope? If so how do you like it?

I now have 4 of the Athlon 2-12x42 Helos BTR scopes, based off Sticks review and as stated they are alot scope for the money
Sold my 2 Leupold VX 6 HD 2-12x42 scopes..

That scope is FFP and the Argos HMR is SFP. Is there any difference in the glass between the two?

I emailed Athlon to find out the glass difference between the two scopes. After receiving their response I’m wondering why the Argos 2-12x42 HMR with the illuminated 600A reticle is not more popular.

I've looked through both and I'd agree with glass being equal.
I actually have the MOA reticle in my Helo BTR, love the reticle . It's just a preference in reticles , turrets, etc.

Thanks, good to hear.

I looked hard at the Helos 2-12x42 with the FFP but for deer hunting, with shots 300 to 400 yards at most, I figured a SFP scope with an illuminated reticle with holdovers would suit me better plus I usually don’t dial turrets when hunting. Then I saw it mentioned somewhere where the glass in both scopes were the same so that’s why I emailed Athlon directly to find out for sure.

I purchased an Athlon Midas Tac a couple years back. The scope did not totally retain zero. The customer service department tested the scope at their in-house lab and confirmed that it was bad. I had a new one shortly that has done well. That was about as good of customer service, as I have ever experienced.

It rests on a heavy-barreled .260 that is used for deer depredation work in the summer.

Athlon puts out a good product, without breaking the bank. To all of the Chinese-bashing whiners, I would like to see how many Chinese products are in your homes. Don't tell me "none", because it would be a lie. This is a world-wide economy, so get over it. The same people that do not want a scope that works well, because it is from China, will buy a pos Loopy, just because it is theoretically made in the U.S. Amazing.

What do you think so far?

I'm "wasting" 2.4 mils of elevation from zero that can still go down, but the Arken rings had it nuts on for windage with the windage mechanically centered. Should have plenty of elevation to reach out a little up north.

Was about .2 mils off after shooting one shot and adjusting 8+ mils down to zero, which was probably me, as I wasn't exactly using a precision rest. Doing a series of shoot one, dial 2 mils up, shoot one, dial 2 mils down, gave me two10-round groups the same size as shooting ten at one aiming point.

I'm glad I grabbed one. I came home and zero'd the turrets, then dialed a bunch of elevation. I'll go back and check that it's still zero'd in a few days.



It is nice to zero and check out adjustments inside with no wind, but I want to get outside to compare glass resolution. It's below zero with 25mph winds so that ain't happening today.

You have conflated buying Chinese goods. A more equivalent question for the situation would be how many ChiCom Items in your home did you choose over a non ChiCom product? Of course we all have a pile of Chinesium items in our homes; if there's not a choice, what else can you do? Conversely, instances wherein there is a choice, such as with rifle scopes, are an entirely different scenario. Similarly, your assertion that its either ChiCom scopes that work or Leupolds that don't ignores the fact that there's a lot of non ChiCom, non Leupold scopes that are well known for their functionality and ruggedness.

Complicating maters is the fact that buying rifle scopes is directly supporting the CCP because of their manufacturing laws in regards to weapons.

Not that I think a few guys buying ChiCom scopes are going to shift any major paradigms, just a few thoughts I have on the subject while I read and hear peoples' justifications.

I'd love to see Athlon due a simple 1" scope with illumination with a side battery compartment. Probably just a me thing but I hate the battery compartment up on the eye piece.

The Argos has the illumination on the side and offers a 1" tube.

Got two of those, but they are pretty heavy scopes with the parallax adjustment and all...

Two? Does that mean you are a BI Athlon man?.....

He's for sure a Buy Athlon man.

Used to do at least one or two events a winter at Camp Ripley. Now I'm old and hate the cold.

People can hate all they want, but the Helos isn't a bad scope, especially for the price you can get at ExpertVoice with a discount.

But does he switch-hit?

Here are a few thoughts in response to your question... Durability-wise, the Cronus and the Midas are going to be a little more sturdy in their construction (compared to the Argos). The glass and the coatings will be better on the Midas and the Cronus as well (over the Argos). A few more things to consider... Midas has edge-to-edge clarity (which will make the image pop more and render more of a 3D effect). The Cronus has more of a field-flattening effect (which will render more of a 2D effect). The Midas, I think it's worth mentioning, has been our best-selling line for many years. I don't think you can go wrong with any of those three options though. I hope that helps!

IMO, if you're looking at Athlon binos in the 8X range, just spring for the Cronus 8.5X42. They're extremely good. They were my primary bino for a couple of years until I bought my Cronus 10X50 rangefinding binos but the 8.5s aren't going anywhere.

There are actually a number of differences between these two scopes. The Helos has locking turrets, as you mentioned, it also has higher-quality glass and a 34mm tube - depending on which one you get. Of course, each line also features a different collection of magnification ranges and reticles.

Long story short, the Talos is more of an entry-level line for us. Both are solid, but if a Helos is in the budget, we would recommend going that way.

The Cronus ATS family features 3 scope options and 2 monocular options – one with a built-in laser rangefinder. Click the links below for more information on each.

These are going FAST so be sure to order yours today!

CHRONUS 50-640 ATS SCOPE
https://athlonoptics.com/product/cronus-ats-thermal-scope-50-640/

CHRONUS ATS 50-400 SCOPE
https://athlonoptics.com/product/cronus-ats-thermal-scope-50-400/

CHRONUS ATS 35-400 SCOPE
https://athlonoptics.com/product/cronus-ats-thermal-scope-35-400/

CRONUS ATS 35 ML-400 MONOCULAR
https://athlonoptics.com/product/cronus-ats-thermal-monocular-35ml-400/

CRONUS ATS 35 M-400 MONOCULAR
https://athlonoptics.com/product/cronus-ats-thermal-monocular-35m-400/


If you’ve already had the chance to get one out in the field, we’d love to hear your thoughts.

HAPPY HUNTING !!!

I was out hunting with the Cronus 50-640 a week ago. It is a very nice thermal.
At this stage, I have spent a LOT of time with it.

ILya

I've been thinking of adding the Athlon Optics Ares G2 15-45x65 UHD straight version to the herd, for a semi-beater for range work. Hoping the view on the Ares is clear and bright in the mid-power range, spoiled by the Swaro's won't help.

I hear the eye relief is very tight if you wear eye/sun glasses, any advice on that issue ?.....18-20mm would be nice.

Eye relief on that spotter is 0.75-0.63". Hope that helps!

Afraid that DOESN'T help, I'm looking for actual users behind the glass and their reviews of the product.... I can see the dimension you provided on the spec sheet, but that's not always an objective/effective number just a measured one.

Bwana1, IMO you're going to have to see for yourself. I have that Ares G2, a Meopta S2, and Razor 65hd. I have also owned a Zeiss 85t FL, and Nikon 82ED. Every single one of them have eye relief that gets critical at higher mags. Just the way it is. You're facial features are likely unlike mine, and lots of others.

I certainly agree with that, style of glasses along with facial structure definitely have an influence. I have 2 Swaro spotters that are zero problems, but in bino's anything below 17-18mm become a problem with kidney beaning.

Appreciate your input Sir.

I'd like to see a helos btr gen 2 2-12x42 with a finer reticle. I like these scopes but I'd prefer one with a finer reticle without the big dot in the middle for more precision work.

If they could just offer a finer reticle option in some that still has mil hashes to use the reticle for holds I'd buy several more.

I'd also like a capped windage option with a small cap. Ihate huge dials especially on the windage. A shorter exposed elevation and a smaller capped windage is where it's at for a dialable hunting scope.

Bb

When are the 2-12 Helos Mil/Mil going to be back in stock?

Any chance of them being made in Japan? They'd be about perfect then.

I've only shot a couple dozen BTR Gen2 2-12x Mil/Mil's and rather love that reticle for killing. It's fast, precise and illuminates well. Hint.

Have yet to have an issue of any sort and drive same on a herd of mainstays. If looking to gun Tiny Agg's,I shoot it as a Straight Eight ala Heinie irons, which is a breeze to subtend. Hint.............

Thanks for the feedback! I will pass your suggestions up the chain of command.

Size of the reticle is actually kind of irrelevant for accuracy work.
Find a old drafting compass and draw a circle that's about .100 per side bigger than the big dot is covering ,at 100 yards .
Actually you can do this at any yardage.
Fit the dot to the target...ie..you might have to draw your own target.
It's just as accurate as a fine reticle that disappears when the light gets dim.




Dave

^^^ I agree, I like mine a lot. but a little finer reticle would be nice. I'm not real worried about when the light gets dim. the illumination is on during that time.

Any updates on when the Helos 2-12 mil/ mil will be back in stock again?

Should be the 1st week in May