I know lots of people may overreact to this question but it’s been on my mind a lot lately. I just keep wondering if there’s anyway they could disperse ammo sales more evenly or rationally to prevent hoarding and avoid these times like we are currently experiencing? I just keep thinking there’s got to be a way to avoid these shortages and not having hunting ammo readily available to consumers at all times. Does anyone else wonder about this? I buy when times are good but I still don’t like the feeling of not being able to go buy ammo for my favorite hunting rifles if I wanted to. It’s getting to the point that I wonder if it’ll ever recover! People aren’t afraid to pay the ignorant prices and will keep stashing it away I’m thinking. There’s got to be an answer.

The answer is for the manufacturers to keep cranking 24/7 until supply catches demand.

The manufacturers are estimating that that will take well over a year.

Well, they better get on it then.

I think a large part of the problem is the distributors. I spent more than 30 min on the phone with a guy at Hodgdon Powder a week or so ago. He said they are turning out more powder than ever and said in late Dec/Early Jan they sent 190,000 lbs of Varget out the door and in less than 2 days there wasn't any on the shelves anywhere. Said they have NO control over the powder once it goes to the distributors. I know here in Amarillo TX not one of the stores that carry reloading components has seen a powder delivery in more than 6 months. I'm betting the same thing is happening with loaded ammo, it leaves the factory by way of distributors but gets routed to others before most of hit hits the store shelves.

Pretty hard to "hoard" it if you can't buy it anywhere. For my money the distributors are selling to some select high volume buyers who are then reselling at huge markups.

Import more?

I would imagine they are selling to their best customers...which is what any business should be doing. You are more than able to start your own distribution company and handle business the way you see fit.

Some people did not prepare.

I see on websites and forums a lot lately where someone will mention “hey just a heads up, such and such ammo is in stock at such and such place!” Then you’ll see a bunch of guys responding that they bought massive amounts and then within an hour guys will be commenting or bitching and complaining that it’s all sold out already. They don’t realize they’re doing it to themselves. At least that’s the way I’m currently seeing it. Maybe I’ve got it all wrong?

It's not the distributors at the retail locations it's the same a holes that did this the last time. They wait every morning for a shipment to come in and buy what the store put's on the shelves to sell online. SHDD

So, in essence, they are actually improving the channels of distribution by making the ammo available to a larger market?

Capitalism works, even if its not beneficial to you. Folks are nuts right now, they will pay anything for ammo....and I will gladly sell it to them for that.

Well if you consider Walmart and Shceels a larger market then yes..That's where I got my info from!

Any attempts to intervene will make it worse. Just let the market sort its self out. If you've been a gun owner for at least 10 years and weren't prepared its your fault.

I was in Al's in Idaho Falls yesterday and saw they had a pallet of ammo that just came in. I asked if I could get a few boxes of 7.63x39 because I just ordered an AK. They so no, they weren't going to put it out yet. About 2 minutes later a gut walked by with 3 boxes. I asked him where he found it and he said it's not what you know but who.

I then went back and watched them tell some people no and then give boxes to others that it seemed like they knew. I called them out on it and they said they were going to decide who gets it to make sure people who didn't need it weren't buying it. I said you already have a 3 box limit, maybe you should just put it out and let those that show up decide what they need. I said you don't know me or my situation at all but denied me so you could give it to friends. I said if your that big of a control freak, I'm going to make the world fair type communist what are you doing selling guns and ammo? Are you just arming your comrades?

What's with everyone with a $10 an hour job thinking it's their responsibility to make sure everyone gets a trophy whether they compete or not. If they want limits fine but all this hiding ammo from some and deciding who gets it and then acting like your making the world a better place through cronyism is crap.

Bb

That's the benefit of running your own business...you get to decide who you sell what to. Every gunstore ought to be doing the same thing, rewarding long time and valued customers. I would expect those who gave them business then the times were good to have precedence over those who are only there in the hard times.

I’ll admit being friends w a LGS owner for over 30 years has had some nice perks. I imagine buying stuff from them when biz was slow helped that friendship along.

As it should.....

That is exactly what is happening here in the small shops. I don't like the inflated prices but I can still buy if needs be.

Ding-ding-ding!!! We have a WINNER!!!!

This is an opportunity cost issue, not a supply issue. Ammo has been very inexpensive and easily available over the years so if you, or anyone else, chose to spend your money on other things instead of taking care of your ammo supply, this is on YOU and not the ammo companies or anyone else. I loved going to the range with my son and blowing through 500 rounds of 9mm in a day or taking new shooters out on my dime to shoot all they wanted without without breaking the bank but those days are gone, at least for now. Other than getting Trump back in office, the solution to this issue is to get all the thoughtless people to buy regularly, and buy ahead, especially when there are sales going on but, when those times come, they're usually not interested in giving up their beer money for ammo. Now they just have to sit their and cry in their beer, but hey, at least they still have beer!!!

When joey EO,s foriegn imports: guns, ammo, primers.
Schit will get real bad then.

How much you wanna pay for 100 rounds? You won't even have to wait in line or go anywhere. UPS deliver where you live?

“Just in time” supply methods may work for business, but are just plain foolish for individuals and families. Anything you use regularly should be kept on hand against the next anticipated use. Running out of stuff you know you’ll need is simply irresponsible. Not only can it leave you in the lurch when the need arises, but it leads to extra trips to the store, wasting time and gas.

As for ammo, everyone knew that there would be an election in 2020, and that potentially it might go the wrong way for shooters. The plague was unexpected, but it was pretty obvious by Spring of last year that we were in for a long-term hard time. Guns, ammunition, and components were all freely available to anyone well into Summer, based on my purchasing. I didn’t run into any issues until August. Even then, a little searching around enabled me to fill in the few cracks in my supplies at regular prices. Didn’t buy much, because I’ve kept ahead of my anticipated needs for years. It’s too bad that so many didn’t learn from the past and let themselves get caught short, yet again, but the goods were there, so they are totally to blame for their dilemma, not the industry, not the distribution system, not the hoarders, not the scalpers. When people don’t think ahead, they put themselves at the mercy of those who do, and of events. Dollars to donuts many who are stuck now will be stuck the next time too.

This particular store is part of a chain that just opened here a couple of months ago. Their closest other store is in another state hours away. The $10/hour guys aren't running their own business. They are running someone else's in a way that benefits themselves and their friends. I bought 3 nice guns there the first month they were open in November and have spent thousands on reloading gear, mags, camping gear, clothes, and Christmas stuff and clothes for the kids. Some $10 an hour clown just turned it from a store I really liked and tried to support into one I no longer do. All by being unfair in the name of fairness. Must be a Democrat.

Bb

Thanks for the offer. If I need it bad enough I don't mind going to gunbroker and paying market price. I found a case of brass cased Prvi at another shop and spend the big bucks to pick it up. It's OK though I'm sitting pretty well on most other things I just didn't have a lot of cheap ak stuff set back. I'm sure I can trade 5.56 or 9mm if need be. I actually have enough primers, RL26, Retumbo, H4350, Varget, RL26 and others that I should be able to barter for things I don't.

Bb

Some folks just couldn't afford to stock up when ammo prices were reasonable. Your responsibilities to feed and clothe your family is first and foremost. Some of you make it sound like money grows on trees, I feel for the people that can't afford to buy ammo at these prices.

If you have been shooting guns that need ammunition for more than 2 years, you have to be smarter than this. This isn’t the first so-called shortage, this has happened continuously since Clinton was in the White House.

Blaming shortages on hoarders is juvenile and short sighted. If you can’t build up a satisfactory supply when there is plenty on the shelves, blaming someone else is nothing short of stupid.

I have about 20 10-gal. tubs full of ammo. Mercifully, I've been buying more than I need for a couple decades. I think I could take on an entire Chinese rifle battalion with what I have.

Supplier relationships become apparent in times such as this...

I believe this 100%. I can see it on armslist every day. Seems like they're asking more every time I look on that site. I went to Rural King today for some feed, & decided to walk by gun isle to see what they had. 2-3 months ago you could buy all the cheap shotshells you wanted. I didn't see a box of anything. Never thought it would get this insane.

What if I need to hold?

And he will............


and unfortunately it's probably within' his power to do so.

Executive fiat has it's drawbacks.

Well for a fact every 10 cases of pistol ammo my LGS get in only 2 is getting to the shelves the online buyers will buy a whole case at a time for a higher price. They just get a credit card # put a orm d sticker on the box and ups picks it up. Never even gets opened.up.

Ammo prices are in a bubble right now along with stock prices and a few other things. Price bubbles always burst. Of course there is always the chance that Joe and Kamala will find a way to put so much liability on ammo sellers that prices will stay high or even become unavailable. Barak's big deal was to cut us off from obtaining primers. He called them caps.

Why in the world would you ask to be regulated, for ANY reason???

I am comfortable with what I currently have but it sure would be nice to spend a Saturday or Sunday having a long enjoyable shooting session and not having to worry if or when I’ll be able to replace that ammo

That's smart business.

As long as people are willing to pay the crazy prices, its going to be like this. People are buying it that dont need it, to resell for a profit. Some companies are selling them at auction for much higher prices than putting it on the shelf. The way I see to avoid it is to buy a lot of ammo and keep a good stash, then you dont have anything to worry about it. Another option is to load your own. It is easier to stash components and use them for multiple calibers. I dont really want anyone imposing limits, it makes it easier for the gun grabbers to accomplish their goals... especially when we limit ourselves. I suspect it will get worse and worse for gun related companies until they cant afford to stay in business. It will be the ultimate way they end the private gun ownership

Some times that works and some times it doesn't
I purchased a lot of guns from a Chain store here in Communist Mexifornia Called Turner's
they had many stores across So. Cal.
I would walk into any one of their stores and they would call me out by name. Even though I had never been in that specific Store.
Upper Management knew who I was when I called the Corporate Office to ask questions.
Then I ordered a Custom Built Rifle from Turnbull.
I went to get it Dross'd (or how ever you spell it) and they delayed me over a month from getting my Rifle.
After an Argument with the Manager of my local store.
I found a Pawn shop run by the Police as a sting operation for thieves that agreed to Dross. the Rifle.
That was many years ago and I have only walked into my local Turner's store maybe twice since this happened to look.
I will never purchase prom them ever again. I would rather go to the Pawn shops and give them my Business.

Everyone just wait until the new powers that be get us re-involved in a few places like Afghanistan and Iraq. Maybe find a few new places to send American war materiel overseas.

If you think it's hard to find primers, powder, and loaded ammo for your "hunting rifles" now, just wait until the overwhelmed production capabilities of the manufactures is all used up on military stuff.

I dont see that as capitalism at all. Many people play a role in capitalism from the miners, material producers, shippers, loaders retail stores etc. Some private citizen who artificially reduces supply by buying it up (when he doesnt want it or need it) and then reselling is not adding value to the market, not paying taxes, not creating jobs etc. He is not much more than a Tick on a hunting dog, a parasite. They do not warranty the product, replace the product or stand behind the product. They turn around and raise the price or sell it on auction to panickers for a profit that doesnt help or improve the supply chain etc. That is not capitalism and not something I would support as capitalism. It hurts more people than it helps.

As it should be.
Everyone should be prepared for the future.
When I started reloading. I would pick up every single re loadable brass that I found at the range.
Then I would sort it out and put the brass that I did not have a gun to shoot it threw in a box for future use if I ever purchased a gun of that caliber.
And would reload every thing else I picked up.
My stash grew very quickly
Of Course I had to give the 10MM that I picket up back to our Range Master but I do not have a 10MM so that was an easy give back to him for letting me scrounge all of the other brass.

Like I say, I just think there’s got to be a way to more evenly distribute the ammo sales and I feel it starts with how it’s being sold

I picked up a couple 50 round boxes of 9mm from Sportsmans Warehouse for $15 each last weekend. Everyone knows when the trucks come in and the line is long the first morning after the truck... They said they get 3 or 4 thousand of each primer type, except small pistol primers... they cant find those either. They limit primers to 1000 a person and of course they are gone to the first 15 people in the doors. They get powder and ammo the same way. I went snowmobiling instead of waiting in line because I am set pretty well. On sunday I went in to check and see what the shelves looked like and they were still slowly putting out some of the 9mm etc. I figured I might as well get a couple boxes (the limit) while I was there.

Don't worry, Biden will be here with his Great New Ammo Deal soon enough......to hell with the free market!

A tightly monitored list or logbook of ammunition purchased and ammunition shot so as to ensure that everyone is the same and nobody has more than another. Maybe you can exchange empty cases for an equal number of loaded rounds in the same caliber.

Of course I’m being completely sarcastic and I don’t think that any system of controls meant to make ammo distribution equitable and prevent “hoarding” is needed or desirable. If you can’t fend for yourself or if you lack the benefit of foresight and you’re currently finding yourself severely lacking then that’s on you, it ain’t my fault you’re unprepared, it’s natural selection. Those of us that have been prescient enough to have read the writing on the wall have prepared ourselves for shortages and have, through the years, amassed a sufficient amount of stores to get us by in the long-short term. Whether it’s non-GMO seeds, canning supplies, ammo or any myriad of “essentials” many of us have made preparations for the day when the shelves are empty. We dealt with the insults of being a “prepper” and the minimization of our efforts and forethought, not to mention the expense and labor involved.

If you’ve got all your bases covered for food (garden and ‘livestock’), shelter, clean water, heat, fuel and first aid for acute and chronic care and you’re last item is ammunition.....you’ll be fine. There’s enough ammunition available that with time and patience you’ll be fine. If you don’t have the aforementioned items covered then ammunition should be your last concern, you don’t have anything worth defending anyway.

The only change that would work, would be for all of the shooting public to be willing to pay more so that someone within the supply chain would be willing to carry/warehouse inventory.

NOBODY is going to sit on a "slush-fund" of loaded ammo except the end user. The end users are sitting on somewhere between "None" and "Holy JUMPIN' CATFISH!!".

Consumers have proven time and again that they're not willing to pay businesses extra to cover the costs of carrying inventory. When inventory is normal, there are folks who won't even pay full-price. They wait for the pre-season sale or post-season clearance.

Consumers bear the costs of carrying inventory themselves by buying surplus when it's available.

Margins in most ammo are dogschist to begin with. Often times running $1-$2 off/box pre-season the retailers are using that ammo as a loss-leader to get you in the door.

I don't sell stuff in times like this, not at any price. I have a very few close friends that if they're short and I have what they need, I give it to them with the understanding that they'll replace it when supply is available again. I don't cheat them, they don't short me and those same friends would be willing to work the same deal with me should I be short something.

Been preparing since the Clinton years. If you didn't see this coming then, you've been living with your head up your ass.

War is coming.

My thoughts exactly!

You're assuming it's going to continue being allowed to be sold under Illegit Joe's regime.

[quote=Valsdad]Everyone just wait until the new powers that be get us re-involved in a few places like Afghanistan and Iraq. /quote]


Wars are cool, and you know it!

So you want to give control of the civilian ammo supply over to the Biden Administration?

Ten rounds at a time?

Beto for Ammo Czar!!! Idjut.

It's not pretty but the black market serves the purpose of finding the real price for the actual supply and demand.

19 or so years in Afghanistan.

Did we win yet?

Russians were there what, about 10 years?

Brits were there for awhile too, I think they ended up leaving.

Seems the Mongols were there for awhile too. But I'm not sure they "won" either.

Maybe wars are cool when "We" win? And not so cool when they go on seemingly forever?

Oh, judging by your handle and some of your post, I will say thanks for your service to our Country.

On the contrary...it's capitalism at it's purest.

An item is worth what market will bear. Period. Right now, the market has decided ammo is a very high value item, and there is opportunity to make a pretty tidy profit for those that are willing to put forth the effort. In return, ammo is available to those who are not willing to work for the good deals. Each end of the chain is satisfied.

The only ones unhappy are those who think they are owed something in the middle.

Oct 2022, The war in Afghanistan will be old enough to drink.

I've been there- alot. Anyone who thinks we're doing anything other than wasting money and lives is deluded.

Only way to handle that place, given the fact that AQ was there, and we HAD to take em out, is to erradicate the population, and irradiate the ground. Any less is pointless. There is no winning or fixing AFG in a conventional way.

That's why the Afghanis are still there. No one before has had the technology to do as you say is necessary, or they haven't had the will.

The Mongols couldn't even breed them out it would seem.

This is a good point. It's only a matter of time until the new regime picks up where it left off with Obama. Fomenting uprisings and regime changes across the middle east and in places like the Ukraine. You know they are going to cause problems in Syria again. Gotta get that pipeline to Europe Assad and Putin be damned.

They are also going to have to arm the new federal police force I'm sure they're going to start pushing soon. Got to round up those Trump supporters.

Bb

Couldn't have said it better, myself.

I know there are many folks with plenty of disposable income who can spend lots of it on ammo. They can shoot hundreds of rounds a week, and stock up tens of thousands of rounds.... and they don't seem to understand that there are others who simply cannot do that.

"You should have bought ammo when it was cheap!" they will say over and over.

For some of us, ammo has NEVER been "cheap".

Priorities....

Anyone could have bought a Hi Point 45 ACP carbine for less than $200 last year. It is a perfectly serviceable and functional home defence weapon that, while ugly and cheap... just works.

Given that the average Glock or SA striker fired pistol costs $5-600, what could you do with the extra $3-400? That would have bought a Lee press kit and a whole lot of components last year.

Priorities.

Great video! Too bad Dems don't understand the correlation between energy production and GDP.

Bb

There are some people just barely getting by and I feel for them and understand they couldn't by cases of ammo even when it was around. But I don't feel sorry for the guys that smoked 2 packs a day, bought a 12 pack everything they went to the store, ate out all the time, and always had the latest or greatest whatever else they were into. Lots of people chose to buy other things and not prepare. They are the ones I don't feel sorry for and they are many of the ones paying top dollar now. Some people chose not to prepare some couldn't afford to. Having the government try to make it right always makes it worse and last longer.

Bb

Have no fear, Biden will be implementing socialist controls shortly.

Anyone that can afford to shoot or hunt could afford to put a bit aside once in a while for the rainy day we all knew would come again at some point, maybe not “tens of thousands of rounds”, but enough to defend themselves, go hunting, and get in some practice. Short-sightedness is the problem, not lack of money. Even a year ago, dirt-cheap ammo, good ammo, was widely available. Money spent on pay-per-views, dining out, lottery tickets, booze, whatever, could’ve just as easily been spent on some SVs or White Box 9mms.

The democrats are cheating, lying, and thieving anti-American liberal socialist communist marxist politicians which need to be ostracized ASAP.

Starbuck's lattes and going out to dinner 3-4 times a week will put a dent in your ammo budget, too.

“there’s got to be a way to more evenly distribute “

...... there IS, it’s called Socialism, and it’s the opposite of Capitalism, and I’ll take the latter for MANY reasons.

Are you the type that complains when you can’t buy a snowblower DURING a blizzard, or a generator DURING a hurricane? If you’ve been shooting for more than a decade and didn’t see this coming a mile away, shame on you!

“Evenly distribute”...... that’s some “comrade” talk if I ever heard it!

A lot of people need to get their head wrapped around the fact that this is not going to subside any time soon.

It continued for years until DJT beat Hillary.

That’s not feasible this time.

I didn't read the entire thread but imo there's something 'fishy' going on here.

Supply and demand? Maybe.

Something more dubious? Maybe.

I'm betting the government will shut down all internet sales of ammo within the year.

I'll just say respectfully, "If you lived thru the Assault Weapons ban, the Obama years, the Sandy Hook school shooting, the Biden campaign, and you still don't have enough guns or ammo.........it's your own damn fault.

Wait till the next mass shooting.
Then Joeys EO,s will come out on foriegn imports of guns, ammo, and components.
Mag restrictions too.

They have to wait to set one up when they get schools open.
All a matter of time and exploiting the situation.
They will use the event just like they did with gentle George.
Build up the outrage over it and then call out demostrations nation wide. Give it mass media coverage for shock value

It's why he hasnt done it yet.
His handlers need to cultivate the circumstance,s for it.
Probably even involve a AK of some sort, steel cased ammo, and drum mags.

JMO.....

They don't have to set up a mass shooting. One will happen. Then we will hear it all. Rifle was brought across state lines, he had 4,000 rounds, rifle was left unlocked, he was mentally ill, he posted right wing thoughts on social media, he campaigned for Trump and attended several rallies.

It's easy. All the big box stores have curbside pickup. If they reserved their ammo for curbside orders and limited the number of boxes they would sell per month to any given cell phone number, the situation would be much better managed. Local gun shops could do something similar. The problem is the retailers don't seem to really care, and thus they facilitate the gougers.

The retailers probably delude themselves into thinking that if customers have to come into the store to get ammo, they will buy additional products, but that doesn't work when gougers are buying all the ammo.

There are all sorts of hard luck cases all over the country. Ammunition or diapers, it isn’t about fairness. I can’t afford a new Cadillac, but because someone else can, doesn’t mean I should have one in my garage.

It is too bad that some guy can’t take his kid out to shoot a 22, but that isn’t the fault of hoarders or ammunition sales, it is the fault of the dad. Go to the source of the problem, quit blaming circumstances.

For those that lived through those periods, that's valid, but what about an 18 year old buying his first rifle or a 21 year old buying her first handgun, and they don't know anyone who is into guns and has ammo?

That's some of the most entitled nonsense I have ever read. The guy making cash on the side flipping ammo has just as much right to the ammo as you do, maybe more. At least he's putting the work in to get it.



I am a 40 year old guy who loves muscle cars....but I got into the hobby too late to feasibly afford what I would love to have. That's life.

And the sense of entitlement runs deep.

It's not entitled - it's the Golden Rule. I'm comfortable with what I have so I'm not desperate to add more, but there are a lot of hardworking folks that don't deserve the bad situation made worse by the jerks who take advantage of the crisis.

I agree that the market works out the price, which is why we're seeing some outrageous prices, but the retailers need to do a better job of taking care of a broader swath of their customers.

It does.
My bud had a 2 bx limit on 300BO last week, son got his and asked if'd go get 2 more.
Bud asked what I was after and then how many boxes I needed?
I only took 4 even though I could have had it all.

No they don't, you come into my place of business and offer to buy everything I have in inventory, then by God I'm gonna help you start loading it.

It is absolutely entitlement. Why does the guy who ants to go shooting deserve that box of ammo more than the guy who is gonna flip it and make $50? Does the narrative change if the flipper is using the money he makes to pay medical bills, or keep his lights on? One could argue that the "jerk" reselling the ammo to make a profit for necessity is more deserving than the guy who wants to go blast a box at the range. No one expects the wholesaler to give up their profit, nor do they expect the distributor to take a loss, but once it gets to the buyer, all of a sudden its not fair?

In the real world, no one "deserves" it, its a commodity, and a non necessity at that.

what did the dad do wrong here? He just wanted to go to the store and buy a couple 3.99 boxes of 22...and none were there. I guess he should have bought 22 ammo 6 months in advanced of buying his kid a 22 rifle?

The market works things out - some business choices result in failure, and other choices result in success. Every business owner has to make his own choices and live with the consequences.

This. There's no cheating the natural price level. It will find itself regardless. Controls, whether placed on my small businesses, corporations, or the government, only make matters worse in the larger picture.

Another reality many here are ignoring...the guns and ammo market has changed dramatically due to the current world condition. With the current administration, there is a very real likelihood that business will change in ways that could bankrupt a huge swath of those in the industry, from manufacture to retailer. Anyone who isnt selling everything they can, for as much as they can right is a damned fool.

Local radio is advertising reloading lessons.

LOL

You don't get it, and nothing anyone writes is going to help you understand, but I'll add this for anyone who has ears to hear. The only thing we "deserve" is to "reap what we sow," and there are some folks who are going to be reaping some bitter, rotten crops.

You are right, I won't understand why selling an item at he price the market dictates is somehow morally wrong.

I won't understand why its wrong for a person to put in the work to obtain an item at a price, and from a source, that's available to anyone and turn that work and commodity into profit.

What I will definitely never understand is what some think they deserve an item simply because they want it....and somehow their wanting is more important than someone else's wanting based upon the intended use.

Yes, it's a wonderful invention called the "free market". In it, you allow people to sell what they want, when they want, for a price that buyer AND seller agree on.

Unfortunately, we live in a material world and are bound by all the constraints that come with that.

Improving the "invention" would involve not allowing Democrats/Progressives/Marxist to be elected dog catcher or hold any positions of responsibility.

just make more. The market will handle distribution. The LAST thing I want is 'control' of purchases

We can’t buy anything around a military base. EVERBODy shoots and all the retirees are hoarder-preppers, which whatever I sort of am too. And Im not bitching cause was a I visionary since 1994.


Two events turned me into a ‘weirdo’ prepper’ type.

And ice storm that cut our power off and even power in some parts of town for 10-14 days.

And the AWB, 10 round mag BS

What did you envision? Was that Waco and Ruby Ridge time frame? I kinda think so.

Yes thats in there too

Plus the AWB and some long term weather related power outages

^^^ see above

Should you sell off some of that ammo at 7x what you paid for it now?

Or wait for 10x or 15x?

Capitalist here.. just askin.

Lol!

More regulation is not needed for anything. REGULATE LESS!

Dad should have looked into the situation before he bought that .22 and maybe considered buying an airgun instead so the boy could actually use it. None of this is a secret.

Been looking around here and there online, and there’s stuff out there from retailers, not gougers, at reasonable prices, if you seek it out persistently. Most places will let you sign up for notifications. Makes more sense than standing in front of the ammo case at Whatamart with your lower lip quivering.

Clinton primer scare, the theory was floated to somehow make primers go inert so they couldn't be stockpiled by right-wing fanatics. Ruby Ridge and Waco being the Gov't/MSM justification for just such a measure.

Any time there is a run on primers or ammo since then you'll see folks on here post up about still having primers from the "Clinton Years", that's what they're referring to.

Nothing immoral about selling at market prices, but it might just be illegal to go into the ammunition business without a license, which is what you're describing, and that would be immoral. I'm not talking about people who are selling what they've bought over the years and have decided they have more than they need at today's prices. I'm talking about those who have gone into business illegally to take advantage of a crisis. I would have sympathy for someone needing the cash to scrape by, but I suspect more than a few ammo flippers aren't.

Well, call me weird, but I am of the opinion that requiring a business license to conduct a sale between consenting adults is immoral. That kinda makes the chasm between our opinions fairly wide.

Nothing like injecting some government into our personal lives to make it all fair, huh?

If you want to blame anybody, blame your democrat friend, neighbor or relative.

It's good that you want more government in your life, because under Biden and the Democrat House and Senate, you'll be getting plenty of that.

No sheit

You don't need any kind of license to sell commercially loaded ammunition. You need a Type 6 FFL if you're going to manufacture ammo for sale (reload for profit).

The only way to get into any sort of trouble "flipping" commercial ammo would be if the IRS thought you weren't paying the taxes on the profits.

Lots of small town convenience and hardware stores have a small section of ammo on the shelf sans any manner of FFL related to the business.

Razorback, are you perhaps the President or Sergeant at Arms of your HOA?

This is Biblical in the scope of having plenty of warning and still ignoring the signs. Old Testament story of 7 lean years and plenty of time to prepare and New Testament 10 virgins with lamps and only 5 with oil.

It is not a fairness doctrine, it is simply being smarter than a door knob. I will bet most of the idiots complaining about hoarding and shortages, don’t fill up their cars with gas until the gauge registers empty or close to it.

It’s pretty easy. It’s called the market. Raise prices until demand starts to soften. When that happens, supply will catch up as demand falls. When demand falls sufficiently, and supply is plentiful, prices will fall as well.

Lack of planning and foresight on your part does not constitute a crisis on my part.

Neither. Auction is the way to go.

This. Exactly.

Our Constitution fits into the category of a just law. It gives the federal government the right to regulate interstate commerce. If you sell something to someone in another state, you are engaging in interstate commerce and are subject to federal laws and regulations. On the other hand, under the Constitution, the individual states have the Constitutional authority over INTRAstate commerce, so rock on with whatever in-state face-to-face sales you want to conduct - that's under your state's laws.

This ammo shortage has hurt me.
I received a new tow from my son for Christmas
He was kind enough to also give a few boxes of ammo.
I have been able to get two more boxes so far[haven't gotten on any waiting lists, yet].
It sux but hey life goes on and I've plenty for everything else that I have.
I'll slowly but surely stock up for this one over time.

Every gun store I've been in lately has limits in place or at least so they say. But limits vs no limits, I think either way we're fuqed for the foreseeable future.

A lot of guys here saying that the ammo market as it is now is capitalism, and that's mostly true, but there are aspects of it that make it incomplete. Capitalism is unfettered voluntary exchange of private goods and services, meaning someone owns them, and decides what happens to them. The ammo manufacturers are not unfettered in how they are able to produce their products. They have hundreds of government edicts they must follow for the "privilege" of manufacturing, selling, and distributing ammo and components.

What we are seeing now is an authentic scarcity brought on by panic buying (a very real aspect of the free market in the best of times), authentic scarcity brought on by higher demand for ammo due to a greater number of firearms owners and users, authentic scarcity brought on by Remington's ammunition production facilities having to largely fold due to them not doing typical maintenance and replacement of worn out equipment, artificial scarcity due to high barriers of entry into the production side due to government regulation of accellerants, explosives, and lead, artificial scarcity in the work force due to Covid regulations and government subsidies (handouts so that people don't seek employment), and most significantly, artificial scarcity because, due to several obvious and some unclear factors, no significant investment is being made to increase production of ammo and primers, even though all the market signals are in place to do so. This last is where we seem to argue back and forth, with some contending that it is too high a barrier for not enough reward, particularly given the time investment involved.

I assert that, given the real price of ammo and components, as shown on auction sites like Gunbroker, there is some artificial pressure being applied to the big manufacturers to discourage them from permanently increasing ammunition supplies in the US by investing in new manufacturing capability, even though all the ingredients exist in the market already for them to turn larger profits by increasing production. The increased demand isn't going away any time soon.

The only reason I can imagine that they wouldn't want to increase production is they think demand will fall off sharply when the Baby Boomers die off, and their guns and ammo are distributed through the market.

Don't have any demorat "friends".

Dumbass relatives, however..

No, the reason ammo makers don’t want to invest heavily in new manufacturing facilities is because there is no actual shortage. This is a bubble. Given that .22 LR alone amounts to four or five billion rounds a year produced, there could literally be hundreds of billions of rounds of ammunition in the US alone. There is no shortage. This is the Tulip Bubble. Eventually, people will realize that there is all this ammo out there and demand will drop to virtually nothing, maybe for a long long time.

Your only fugged if you did' t prepare. And if you did prepare and aren't good with your plan because your worried about some twit who didn't prepare your still fugged. You are only responsible for you and yours that's what life as a man is about. Some can't or won't figure that out then whine around like a dull saw blade about " what's FAIR fug them Biden voters life ain't fair period..

Don't discount incompetence at the manufactures as a possibility. Big companies have their own internal "deep states" they have to contend with... entrenched status quo thinking that is almost impossible to overcome. Hell, you see it here. Suggest that the ammo companies learn to scale for capacity and you'll see a 100 reasons why that's impossible.

That first video by the Federal CEO said a lot. I've never seen a CEO get indignant with their customers like that, particularly as their customers are literally throwing their money at him.

It's hard to factor in incompetence. Profit motives work well, even for those with IQ well below a functional level. There does seem to be a cut-off, but I doubt that any of the people making decisions for these companies has an IQ below 50. That's why I assert there is more involved than is publicly discussed. Because, as you said, customers are willing to literally throw money at these companies. Can anyone here relate? Does anyone here think that solving a few problems to increase production isn't worth it, when you can pick a price-point several hundred percent above your recent price-point for the new production capacity, at least for the next 5 years? Hell, the new manufacturing would pay for itself in two, tops, and then it would be raining dollars. Anyone here think that's a hard pass?

Yeah, the Federal CEO video was not a good effort.
2nd one was a little better but still poisoned by the fist

Shoulda hired a bimbo w big tits to do the vid

very correct statment

Trying to decide whether to go out to the shop and load what I want or cast some bullets. Decisions, decisions.

I dumped those friends in Nov 1992

Family is squared away, even the in-laws. Surprisingly.

I’ve in the mind for casting. I’m just not well practiced at it. Been contemplating casting some fishing sinks to set the mood.

The Bidenites are working at light speed eff up everything pertaining to firearms, which includes online purchasing of anything gun related. So if things keep deteriorating at the rate it is going now, it won't be long before the high prices will be eliminated, no scalpers, scammers, or panic bidders on GunBroker. There probably won't be a GunBroker anymore. So we better get what we can while we can, and try to figure out how to hang onto it.

[quote=hookeye]Yeah, the Federal

Shoulda hired a bimbo w big tits to do the vid[/quote

Yeah we we could all do with a copy of a video with a big titted bimbo doing her song and dance routine. Maybe make it a commemorative set with a couple 100 rd boxes of 22lr's. Fugging A!

Let me be clear ... I don’t believe in any way, shape, or form in anymore restrictions on ammunition and firearms by the government. I’ve enjoyed reading everyone’s thoughts on this subject. The wheels are always turning in that big block head of mine. I just keep going back to something could be changed with the way ammo is distributed to possibly help in times like we are currently experiencing.

Bingo!

You only have to go back a year to see that what you said about increasing capacity is true. Just like before, everyone without ammo is calling for manufacturers to make big investments to increase capacity just because they lacked prudence. Supplies caught up quickly after the last bubble, and will again, barring government interference, which can’t be ruled out. Meanwhile, there are ways to overcome the supply issues, but putting on a pouty face and fussing at business owners ain’t one of them.

You mentioned tulips. Remember the Great Beany Baby Boom? I saw one go for $2500.

Wars are good for business....invest your son. Lyndon B. Johnson

I agree that the feeling is not good. But people panic and buy what they don't need. Other people see that and jack the prices up. The only way to deal with it is to get what you need when prices are low. Having a 10-year supply is not unrealistic.


Okie John

Holy sh*t, the only thing we are guaranteed is death. And there isn’t a damn thing fair or equitable about how and when it happens.

Direct sales from the manufacturer. Take out the middle man.

I'm sure Biden and the Dems will soon attempt to restrict the amount of ammo we are legally allowed to possess, or buy.

That should help.....give or take.

This is absurd and inane to the extreme. Conflating firearms and ammo with the Tulip Mania and the Beanie Babies BS shows a serious lack of reasoning power. Your government is going to control you though keeping tulips and stuffed animals out of your hands? There is a massive global black market for tulips and Beanie Babies? Inner city gangs are arming themselves with Beanie Babies? Cops are packing 30 tulip clips in their magazines?

Well, you’re simply wrong, Pollyanna. It’s too late for this episode. The next one can be avoided, but won’t be, because people refuse to learn from their mistakes.

I am sorry for the shooters who cannot find 22 ammo but lack of foresight on their part is a problem they created. As late as Oct last year there were litterally cases of inexpensive plinking ammo available at most places for "on-sale" prices of $14.99 for 500 Remington Thunderbolts or similar ammo from other manufacturers.

It is hard for me to believe that someone could not find $2.99 in the budget for a box of 22 ammo a week for the last four years - if they had planned ahead just a bit they could have purchased over 200 boxes of ammo a year without a major hit on their budget. Or if they had purchased one $15 bulk pack of 500 rounds per month that could have acquired 6,000 rounds per year or 24,000 rounds over the last 4 years.

While I feel bad for those who post say that they couldn't afford to stock up on the ammo when it was inexpensive perhaps they should give up shooting as a hobby and concentrate on getting their budget into better shape.

drover

So they should invest hundreds of millions in new production facilities when government action might negate their ability to recover those costs even before the new production can be brought online?

Dude, there is enough ammo in the hands of American civilians to fight half a dozen WW IIs.

I was discussing the market. You’re the one making bat-[bleep]-crazy assertions about someone pressuring manufacturers to not increase production.

Take your meds and go into your bunker for a nap, dipschitt.

All they have to do is flip that “increase production switch” and there would be plenty of ammo.

Here’s an interesting statement just posted on Facebook from Powder Valley, a retailer that I occasionally purchase my reloading supplies from. Thought I’d share. Puts it all into perspective.

Not the case at all. They virtually all will tell you they are way more than a year out. Most closer to two years and they have quit taking orders.

There is no doubt in my mind that a lot of this goes on. The store owners funnel the ammo shipments to a second party who then sells it for them at some online auction site for 4 or 5 times the usual price. All the while telling the customers who come by the store that they just can't get anything in because of the shortage. It's a win, win for the store owners. They make 4 times as much profit off the ammo but avoid the accusation of price gouging because they aren't selling it off their actual store shelves for those inflated prices. People tend to remember that time they just needed a box of ammo to take their kid hunting and you charged them 80 bucks for a 16 dollar box of Winchester Power Points. But this way they get to sell it at those prices without any of their usual customers knowing it's actually them doing the selling. I say if you are going to be a price gouging a-hole then don't be a p#ssy about it. Put it out in your store for those prices.

The best thing we could all do right now is just stop buying ammo for a while. One of the best things that could possibly happen would be if over the next 2 months every ammo auction at places like Gunbroker ran their course and closed without receiving a single bid. I'm not saying that would solve everything but it would be a damn good first step. As long as people keep freeking out like there is never going to be any ammo again this will not get better. As long as people keep paying 70 bucks for a 20 round box of federal power shocks then I promise you that is exactly what they are going to keep charging your @$$ for them.

Wal-Mart and every other store should double the price of ammo and do it every two weeks until it starts to sit on the shelf for longer than 30 minutes.

Who needs to make cogent arguments pointing to obvious holes in the story we are given, explaining all the visible market forces, but conclusively arguing that those don't describe the behavior we see? Apparently, "Take your med and go into your bunker for a nap, dipschitt" is a well-reasoned rebuttal.

Fuucking retards around here. I'd be surprised to hear you can wipe your ass right. Isn't your secret crush on Fox right now? Better tune in.

More inane and idiotic assertions. You must have done quite well in public school.

I laid out some basics, as have others, as to why there are MASSIVE motivations to invest in increased production. Since production is scalable to a large extent, there is only a small fixed barrier to the minimum outlay of capital to begin to step up production to meet permanent increased demand. And since "panic buying" has created a demand that far outstrips production for the next few years, and the manufacturers could charge at least 500% of what they charged just last January moving forward, the only barrier to beginning to increase capitalization of production is?

Go ahead and come up with a cogent answer. I'd like to hear one.

1. Define “minimum” outlay of capital.

2. Define “permanent” increase in demand

3. Define “production” both now and once these increases in production you advocate have occurred.

4. Predict actions by Congress over the next six months and how those actions might affect not only the market and demand, but the legalities around the manufacture and sale of ammunition.


Then once you’ve done all that, pretend you are an ammo company and I am a bank, and you are asking me for a loan to build new production facilities. And of course, assume that I am not a “woke” bank and predisposed against loaning you money merely because I dislike your business.

Even if the ability to increase production is found and available, increases in production always impact current quality control measures.

And, what is the BIGGEST liability that manufacturers of ammunition face? Quality control.
The product liability policies they purchase may be the biggest factor which dictates production goals.

The solution is for the manufacturers to take a free market approach and charge what the market will bare. The scalpers aren't to blame, they're just addressing a market inefficiency. Some people will complain, but right now the extra profit to be made in ammunition sales is going to scalpers. The manufacturers are understandably worried about investing in a bunch of new machinery only to have the market go flat and still be on the hook for paying it off. Right now the incentive for them to increase production is limited by there artificially low prices. Obviously, there would be more incentive if they were the ones pocketing the profits.

Except mass shooting events have always been perpetrated by Ds.

How is "closer to two years" different from "over a year?"

My kids or grandkids can either shoot it, burn it, or sell it for whatever they can get after I die. I really won't care at that point.

Unless, of course, I get "SWATed" before then. And then everyone can read in the paper about all the "Sniper Rifles" and the "huge" ammo cache they confiscated. They might even mention "high capacity" lever action "assault rifles"

That's what I argued during the post-Sandy Hook .22 rimfire shortage. That way, if you really needed some .22, you wouldn't need to line up at the store's entrance two hours before opening and then have a foot race to the gun counter when the doors open. You could come any time you wanted, and it would be on the shelf. You'd just have to be more frugal in how much you purchased and used. This would allow production to catch up, followed by a lowering of prices. Instead, Walmart kept their prices as they had always been, and their entire stock was cleaned out within the first hour after a delivery, then resold at a gun show for actual market prices.

And every Tom, Dick, and gun toting Harry in the nation would be cussing the retailers or the manufacturer for price gouging and calling for a boycott of their business.

One shop I check in weekly has had 22lr sitting for months, because it was 100 a brick where everyone else was 40-50 depending on count/brand. I thought he was crazy, and i guess he was at the time....he sold it all the past week and now isn't sitting on squat for inventory.

You really 007'd the shiznit outta the ammo/components snit. To what address should the crown deliver your PPK and Aston-Martin?

Lets see.....

Clinton in office 8 years, panic ensues. Leaves office, market stabilizes.

Obama in office 8 years, panic again. Leaves office, market stabilizes, and supplies are not only good, but cheap. The most pro-business, anti-regulation President in decades is in power, but no one takes advantage of that to build additional capacity that would make them rich beyond their wildest dreams, now and for the conceivable future meeting the incredible demand that some crackpot on an internet shooting forum is certain exists. The only possible explanation is that someone is pressuring them (threatening to kill a puppy, no doubt) to not make all that money. Can’t possibly be that the industry recognizes that the market will stabilize, leaving them with idle production capacity and surplus employees. Gotta wonder why those evil pressurers failed to stop them from catching up to and exceeding demand the last two times.

Just maybe the truth is you’re totally FOS, stupider than you accuse me of being, or delusional. I’m taking door number three.

Seriously, GFY you moron.

Ummm. Either more supply (mfg’s make more), or less demand (raise prices until people stop hoarding, and only buy what they need).

Not necessarily. I have plenty of components and ammo for the rifles I shoot on a consistent basis. But my wife bought me a 308 Win for Christmas and that is a caliber I didn't have so there was no reason for me to have ammo or components. You can't paint with the broad of a brush.

Mac, your example is perfect! I’m currently wanting to move into an AR10 for my nighttime coyote hunting I’ve heavily gotten interested in this year. I have quite a bit of 6.5 Creedmoor ammo laying around since I have that in a bolt gun. I feel like if I make the move I almost have to go with the Creedmoor in the AR10 to guarantee I’ll have ammo for it but I’d almost rather go 243 wssm or plain ol 243. Folks are very limited right now if they want to play around with new chamberings.

In this environment, I'm just not going to do it.

That's EXACTLY why I keep telling everyone in my circle to make hay while the sun shines!

Drives me nuts that a couple of them just keep dragging their feet.

I read a post a while back where a member boasted that he had 25,000 rounds of 22 ammo tucked away. What in the world do you do with that much ammo? Hoarding so he will have ammo for the next centrury?

25k really isn't that many .22 shells. Burning a 500rd brick is/was a pretty typical Saturday afternoon when I was kid. That being said, if I decide I want 500k 22 shells, what business is it of anyone's?

Is that supposed to be a lot of 22 ammo? Last January Target Sports had a special if you bought 10k rounds of 22 lr it was $0.01.7 a round and free shipping.

25k rounds of 22LR still isn't that much. I read a recommendation several years ago that to become good with a rifle one should shoot 1600 rounds of 22 LR the first year and then 1200 per year after that from the various field positions. 25k represents 20 years of that level of practice plus 600 rds for hunting. For 2 in a family that's only 10 years worth, and if you had 4 people at that annual volume you might not have enough to make it to the next presidential administration.

If, like a LOT of people with 22lr ammo, like to shoot a few 100 rounds a week with your kids or grandkids, 25,000 rounds will not last long.

I read an article in one of the news rags, guy was complaining that there were over 2 billion 22lr rounds manufactured a year. He wanted to know who was hording up that many rounds. He was even wondering if they were going to some 3rd world group or something. Obviously, he never shot a 22 rifle.

Are you referring to my post on the "Who still shoots a 22LR" thread? A 25,000 round stockpile works out to a little over 200 rounds a month for ten years. Is that excessive? During normal times, I'd do most of my shooting with centerfire, but during hard times like we're now experiencing, I have to resort more to .22 rimfire than to anything else if I wish to continue in the shooting hobby as I have all my life. I still have stockpiles of centerfire, but am more reluctant to shoot it during times like these than I am when ammo is cheap and plentiful. We don't know how long the current shortage (and price spike) is gong to last, or even if it's permanent. Perhaps it will even get far worse, and stay that way. The future is unknown, so be prepared for the worst.

Some of us actually shoot our guns. You should try it sometime.

I took two new shooters to the range last weekend. We burned through a good bit of .22lr.

Some of us have a good number of kids. They need to shoot to, and guess what, it might be awhile before we can buy .22lr again.

I didn't buy a single round of .22 LR during the Obama shortage, but didn't stop shooting. Bought a good bit once prices dropped back to $15 to 20 a brick. And guess what, I'm not buying any now, but I'm still shooting.

Exactly.

PSA is $1 a round on FMJ .223 and you can buy 1 box per day.
Fkin funny

You must be a Biden voter and one of those people who still thinks they have the god given right " to buy what they want, when they want for what they want to pay ". Those days are gone and you need to wise up. Last year at this time you could buy a 50 ct box of 115gr fmj 9 x 19 parabellum ammo for $9 or 18.oo/ 100 which would be $180 a thousand. An hr ago I was looking at a loose packed 1000rd case for $749 I'll be genuinely surprised if it's still there tomorrow. 25k 22lr is a good start on a 22lr stash but what will you do the following saturday?

LOL.

If it was 2017-2019, I'd have been buying another 25k..

Lol!

Quit sniveling already. I don’t have a 308 either, but if I did, I would bet you a case of large rifle primers, that I could be shooting one in less than 10 days.

Get off the campfire and start looking.

That depends on how much you are willing to pay.

That don't even make a dent in my stash

Not really....I can buy 308 brass and bullets at normal prices right now...I would assume he already has primers and powder..

Locally .308 bullets and for practical purposes, all brass is gone.
last time I visited Cabela's the only brass they had was in 32 Smith and Wesson and 50 AE. That was it.
I see Midway actually has some .308 brass, limit one, but I suspect that will all be gone within an hour of my posting this.

308 Lapua and Peterson brass has been pretty easily available throughout this mess. .30 cal Bullets are easy, as long as you aren't terribly picky ...and no more expensive then normal. I've ordered ELD, SMK and Nosler CCs all within the last couple of weeks without issue.

Ya, we should probably limit the amount one can purchase, and make one have a license to purchase ammo.......That would make it fairer.

How about one just prepares and sees the world beyond the end of their nose.

Ammoseek.com

If you want to double that bet, I will wager I can get my hands on components and still not get burned.

Interesting where your stash came from.

Where is all this excess ammo that keeps being produced when the market stabilizes? I don't think you understand much at all, but certainly not economics. You've got the insults down though. Your daddy must have taught you well. He'd be proud. Trump was in office the last year, and more guns and ammo were sold in that time period than ever before in history. Kind of blows a hole in your theory of what's driving the market. You should tweak it a bit.

Next question: when is the market going to stabilize again, if all we are dealing with is purely capitalistic market forces? Since you point to politics being the driver of this market instability, when do you foresee that politics will align with the market to stabilize it, and where is the ammo for all the tens of millions of guns sold in the last year going to come from? Will market stability make it magically appear? I don't think so.

Next question: do you not yet make the connection that government forces (politics) are steering this market (and causing skyrocketing demand for both new guns and more ammo), and have artificially constricted it (through Covid regulations), no conspiracy required?

You want to pretend this is all hoarders. Maybe it is. But most guys can't even shoot recreationally anymore. There are dozens of guys at a time in the classifieds just trying to get ammo for their hunting rifle since hunting season began last fall. The demand that no company plans on filling ever is still sky-high. I've been to over a dozen LGS in a 3 hour radius. They aren't getting it in. My brother lives in Utah along the Wasatch Front. They aren't getting the stuff in. I have other family throughout Idaho. Again, for months and months, they aren't getting it in.

But please, keep blowing smoke up other guys' asses. Maybe they'll be dumb enough to think you've made a point. I'll continue to think you are simple-minded, ignorant of basic economics, and FOS