I'll be interested to know exactly how that transpired. I know how firearms are SUPPOSED to be handled on set, when they are not actually being used as camera rolls. Obviously standard protocol was not being followed in this case... unless the scene was being filmed and someone in the firearms props department really screwed up.
I'll be interested to know exactly how that transpired. I know how firearms are SUPPOSED to be handled on set, when they are not actually being used as camera rolls. Obviously standard protocol was not being followed in this case... unless the scene was being filmed and someone in the firearms props department really screwed up.
L.W.
That’s what I was wondering. Back when I was in the Wholesale Firearms Industry, I used to sell guns to Hollywood’s biggest supplier of Prop Guns.
Wasn’t Bruce Lee’s son killed in the same type accident while filming a movie ?
Huh, I'll wait until more is released. Seems like an unfortunate accident that shouldn't have happened. I would hope there are protocols in place but something seems fishy. I guess we'll see
I'll be interested to know exactly how that transpired. I know how firearms are SUPPOSED to be handled on set, when they are not actually being used as camera rolls. Obviously standard protocol was not being followed in this case... unless the scene was being filmed and someone in the firearms props department really screwed up.
L.W.
That’s what I was wondering. Back when I was in the Wholesale Firearms Industry, I used to sell guns to Hollywood’s biggest supplier of Prop Guns.
Wasn’t Bruce Lee’s son killed in the same type accident while filming a movie ?
Chlinstructor, were you selling to Stembridge?? If so, did you know Larry Merrill? He and I were friends. I have shot several guns Larry used to bring out to the range. Great guy. He died several years ago.
Unacceptable ! Stembridge supplied many firearms used by SF Opera over the years .I was a #1 azzhole when we had firearms on stage and you had to be. Every carpenter, electrician and chorus member wanted to touch them. My boss was telling me about safely loading a pistol and had a discharge in the prop room . Took the pistol away from him and told him he was not allowed to handle them any longer. The crew on stage right could hear me screaming at my boss. Thank god we were not in performance mode at that moment.
Curious as to why a fireram would be pointed at the DP and the Director and fired.
How does prop gun shoot real bullets? We’re they supposed to be blanks? Someone explain please
Yes, please.Supposed it was a revolver, if the chambers of the cylinder were shortened incide to leave no space for real ammo but only for short blanks and the barrels would have a blocking system firing live ammo from a prop gun could be prevented. But if there are parts getting loose by continually use it might be possible that these parts would act like a projectile at least at short distances. AFIK "propguns" like the M29 used by Clint Eastwood in the Dirty Harry movies was and still is a real gun with which you may also use life ammo.
Reminds me of the son of Bruce Lee, Brandon Lee, who was “accidentally” killed on the set of the movie “The Crow” in the early 1990’s. Live rounds in a .44 magnum revolver, supposedly
Lots about this doesn't pass the smell test. But bottom line, if you are holding a gun you are responsible for knowing, not suspecting but KNOWING, exactly what you are holding.
I just read about Brandon Lee on Wikipedia. They’d put in live rounds with no powder for a closeup of the 629 they were using. Somehow, one of those was fired, lodging a Bullet in the barrel. In the actual scene, an actor shot Brandon with a blank, which drove the wedged Bullet into his abdomen. 7mm
Huh, I'll wait until more is released. Seems like an unfortunate accident that shouldn't have happened. I would hope there are protocols in place but something seems fishy. I guess we'll see
From the sound of it, maybe Baldwin was playing around with a gun? If that’s the case, he should be held responsible. Any firearms owner, even new owners, should have the sense that this is a dangerous weapon unless you have some common sense and a little training. Nobody hands a new shooter a gun and says “here you go. Go nuts!” If not Baldwin then I would say whoever is responsible for the firearms on the show. There’s gotta be accountability somewhere. Hopefully we’ll get the whole story. 7mm
Breitbart story says baldwin cocked it and pulled the trigger. Had live rounds in it. A total and complete moron. Ignored every safety rule ever. He needs to be hung now.
Breitbart story says baldwin cocked it and pulled the trigger. Had live rounds in it. A total and complete moron. Ignored every safety rule ever. He needs to be hung now.
If that is correct then he is criminally culpable whether he knew it was loaded or not.
You and I would be in gaol if we did the same and killed someone.
I'm no expert on prop guns. However, I did get approached once years ago to "rent" a real gun to a community theater production. I said "Hell NO!" and walked away. It got me thinking about prop guns. I started looking into it just to get an idea of what was involved.
Somebody who knows more about this is free to correct me. I didn't think live rounds could be fired from a prop gun. Prop guns are modified to only shoot specially prepared blanks. The barrels are modified. Live rounds are nowhere near the set. Furthermore, somebody properly versed in the prop stays in charge of it. It's their job to see it gets properly and safely used.
So the DP gets hit with a live round. From there to the conclusion of the event, everything that comes out of that prop is now purposeful, willful. How many shots were fired? How many people? Why was Alec trying to kill them?
The little I know of the movie industry aside, I can envision a producer/director demanding a certain 'look' they desire and demand a functioning firearm that satisfies that look. Real props are completely incapable of discharging a projectile, but the pressure wave can be significant at extremely close range. However, the fact that two were shot, to me, rules out the accidental aspect. Not a misfire, and with two pulls of the trigger, it'll be hard to argue negligence. With the small amount of information available it looks either deliberate or completely reckless/dumbassery. But I'm not on the jury that will hear it,,,,,yet.
"Alec Baldwin cocked and fired a gun meant to be loaded with blanks on the set of his movie “Rust,” and “did not know the prop contained live rounds.” Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was killed; the film’s director, Joel Souza, is in intensive care."
"Alec Baldwin cocked and fired a gun meant to be loaded with blanks on the set of his movie “Rust,” and “did not know the prop contained live rounds.” Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was killed; the film’s director, Joel Souza, is in intensive care."
The armourer on the set of the movie is responsible for every weapon and ammo of any sort on the entire set.
A good one checks all weapons, ammo, loads and weapons several times during the shooting of a scene. They personally hand the gun off to the assigned actor, and personally load the gun with the prescribed blanks, and supervise each actor and each weapon.
Not only that but they should give a class to all movie personnel before filming starts about safety, handling, etc.
Any infractions can have serious consequences. But, when it's the lead actor who thinks their chit don't stink, it's pretty hard to get them expelled from the set of a movie.... That's why it's usually the famous guys that have the mishaps.
"Alec Baldwin cocked and fired a gun meant to be loaded with blanks on the set of his movie “Rust,” and “did not know the prop contained live rounds.” Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was killed; the film’s director, Joel Souza, is in intensive care."
The armourer on the set of the movie is responsible for every weapon and ammo of any sort on the entire set.
A good one checks all weapons, ammo, loads and weapons several times during the shooting of a scene. They personally hand the gun off to the assigned actor, and personally load the gun with the prescribed blanks, and supervise each actor and each weapon.
Not only that but they should give a class to all movie personnel before filming starts about safety, handling, etc.
Any infractions can have serious consequences. But, when it's the lead actor who thinks their chit don't stink, it's pretty hard to get them expelled from the set of a movie.... That's why it's usually the famous guys that have the mishaps.
Hubris in action. I agree with your take on the armorer's role, but still,,,if a gun is in your hand, it's your responsibility. Baldwin also being the producer makes it even more difficult to admonish him for mishandling a weapon. In the middle of a scene, you have to trust that the weapon handed to you is safe, but the reports paint a picture of him playing grabass. Still, what the hell were live rounds doing anywhere near the set?
And how lucky are the cast members that he would have been shooting at? Wonder why he decided to point it at the director and crew member. He think he was being funny or something or maybe in one his rages?
I read an article once about a guy that made his pile of money furnishing weapons for use in movies. They were real weapons and he had quite a collection of them. That was a long time ago and what they do now I couldn't say. I will say that it's sort of kismet that it happened to one of the biggest jackasses in Hollywood. I hate that innocents were killed and maimed.
Without knowing more about it it would be hard to assign blame.
Without knowing more about it it would be hard to assign blame.
Not really.
From what I see, the armourer and Baldwin are the one's responsible.
Yep.
But betting it's the armourer who gets hung out to dry, not Baldwin. Seeing how Baldwin is an insufferable know-it-all in every other aspect of his life, I would bet he is the one most responsible.
Lots about this doesn't pass the smell test. But bottom line, if you are holding a gun you are responsible for knowing, not suspecting but KNOWING, exactly what you are holding.
Exactly. Thank you.
But, he's a democrat. There will be no blowback on him.
I was reading somewhere else where people were suggesting that since it was the principle photographer, the person responsible for setting up the shots, that Baldwin might have been firing toward a camera and they weren't an appropriate distance away
The whole thing is he had a loaded gun. Wasn't smart enough to check. How many of us would get by with that? Plain and simple. He needs to fry.
I wonder how many actors/actresses never check and trust the prop guy. It would take 10 years to shoot a John Wick movie if Reeves had to check all those weapons and ammo.
I could understand a fellow actor/actress being on the receiving end of this during a scene. But the crew?????
He had to be messing around and turned a fired at them on purpose. Probably trying to be a comedian or smart ass. Negligent homicide may be in play.
Karma...
Sad for the woman.
Clyde
That would be my guess. If so, I hope the POS goes to jail for it. But being a DemoRat and a Trump Hater, he’ll probably get a pass by a Libertard Prosecutor and Sherrifs Dept in NM. It apparently took place in Santa Fe, a Libertard Schitthole 😡
Baldwin is a Democrat, a Hollyweird "star", and a total ass. It will be the armorer's fault, and the gun's. Money on it.
Even if charged with something, he will have half a dozen attorneys on it, and get off with nothing, or nothing significant.
I doubt there were blanks in that firearm, but I know nothing about larger caliber blanks, so maybe there is penetration enough in the wad or whatever..
Baldwin fired the gun, be nice if the POS gets charged with accidental manslaughter.
IMDb offers the following synopsis of “Rust,” which has now been halted: “A 13 year-old boy, left to fend for himself and his younger brother following the death of their parents in 1880’s Kansas, goes on the run with his long estranged grandfather after he’s sentenced to hang for the accidental killing of a local rancher.”
I read this last night and thought how ironic. I am surprised no one here posted this yet. The irony of Baldwin playing the grandfather who is sentenced to hang for an accidental killing. You guys saying he should hang for it didn't even know you were quoting the script.
reading now it was a single bullet that hit both of them.
I still have trouble believing that is was a bullet. How does that even happen?
Lee's son died when they put in dummy bullets in a smith 629 so you could see the projectile in the scene, prop guys left the primers in. Squib load occurred. Then they put in blanks without clearing the barrel. Well a blank sent that bullet down range.
You would be kind of at the mercy of your prop people. You could check the pistol, but from the back, a blank is going to look the same as a live round. You could say he shouldn’t have been pointing it at anyone, but maybe he wasn’t. They don’t point pistols firing blanks at people because they’ve learned bad things can happen even with blanks. But an actual bullet goes a lot farther than blank. For all we know they could have been shooting and these people were twenty yards away doing something else.
I could understand a fellow actor/actress being on the receiving end of this during a scene. But the crew?????
He had to be messing around and turned a fired at them on purpose. Probably trying to be a comedian or smart ass. Negligent homicide may be in play.
Karma...
Sad for the woman.
Clyde
I'll wait for the actual report but the fact that it was the director and director of photography conjures (for me at least anyway) a scene where he's walking at the camera and the camera is the perspective of another human on the receiving end (or close proximity). Pure speculation on my part - but it's just not outside the realm of possibility that he truly wasn't phugggin' around.
I was reading somewhere else where people were suggesting that since it was the principle photographer, the person responsible for setting up the shots, that Baldwin might have been firing toward a camera and they weren't an appropriate distance away
purely speculation though
Yep. When live ammo is used the appropriate distance magnifies exponentially.
Baldwin fired the gun, be nice if the POS gets charged with accidental manslaughter.
IMDb offers the following synopsis of “Rust,” which has now been halted: “A 13 year-old boy, left to fend for himself and his younger brother following the death of their parents in 1880’s Kansas, goes on the run with his long estranged grandfather after he’s sentenced to hang for the accidental killing of a local rancher.”
I read this last night and thought how ironic. I am surprised no one here posted this yet. The irony of Baldwin playing the grandfather who is sentenced to hang for an accidental killing. You guys saying he should hang for it didn't even know you were quoting the script.
It was. In the actual FOX News Article I posted in the original post. But I guess some here don’t read the entire thread before adding a comment. 😜
Huh, I'll wait until more is released. Seems like an unfortunate accident that shouldn't have happened. I would hope there are protocols in place but something seems fishy. I guess we'll see
No we won’t.
Steve4102, I disagree. In this case there were far too many people on set who would have witnessed this incident. Multiple crew members and certainly another actor or two. As I stated in another thread a couple of weeks ago, "Hollywood thrives on rumors and gossip. It's a blood sport "
Those people on set, whether crew or cast members, will be being interviewed by Santa Fe police detectives. Later, back in Hollywood, some of them are going to start talking about what they witnessed. Count on it.
It'll be interesting to me to try and sort out "facts from fiction."
Huh, I'll wait until more is released. Seems like an unfortunate accident that shouldn't have happened. I would hope there are protocols in place but something seems fishy. I guess we'll see
No we won’t.
Steve4102, I disagree. In this case there were far too many people on set who would have witnessed this incident. Multiple crew members and certainly another actor or two. As I stated in another thread a couple of weeks ago, "Hollywood thrives on rumors and gossip. It's a blood sport "
Those people on set, whether crew or cast members, will be being interviewed by Santa Fe police detectives. Later, back in Hollywood, some of them are going to start talking about what they witnessed. Count on it.
It'll be interesting to me to try and sort out "facts from fiction."
L.W.
Yep. It gonna be very interesting. And I’m betting the Paparazzi have a field day with this one.
And I’m betting that as big a jerk as Baldwin is, it won’t take much for the Hollyweird pack to turn on him.
I just hope the Libertard Santa Fe PD And Prosecutor don’t let him get away with murder, if he is in fact, guilty.
I'll wait for the actual report but the fact that it was the director and director of photography conjures (for me at least anyway) a scene where he's walking at the camera and the camera is the perspective of another human on the receiving end (or close proximity). Pure speculation on my part - but it's just not outside the realm of possibility that he truly wasn't phugggin' around.
The fact remains that Baldwin had the gun in his hand. He alone is ultimately responsible for its intended (I didn't say safe) use.
I saw this, this morning. If my twitter account didn't have my email address in it, I repost this on his tweet about the shooting and ask him to let us know, now that he knows.
Lots of idiots here. By almost all normal gun safety rules, making movies is inherently unsafe. You’re pointing guns at people. Your pointing guns at people that appear loaded. You’re pointing guns at people that, even if it works exactly as intended, fires dangerous wadding in the direction of people.
The only way this is Baldwin’s fault is if he was fricking around while not actually shooting footage.
I could understand a fellow actor/actress being on the receiving end of this during a scene. But the crew?????
He had to be messing around and turned a fired at them on purpose. Probably trying to be a comedian or smart ass. Negligent homicide may be in play.
Karma...
Sad for the woman.
Clyde
I'll wait for the actual report but the fact that it was the director and director of photography conjures (for me at least anyway) a scene where he's walking at the camera and the camera is the perspective of another human on the receiving end (or close proximity). Pure speculation on my part - but it's just not outside the realm of possibility that he truly wasn't phugggin' around.
So an innocent woman, Halyna Hutchins, (aka minority victim) was wrongfully killed by an old white man, Alec Baldwin, (aka the oppressive misogynistic member of the patriarchy), what time does the rioting, burning, looting and violence, oops I meant mostly peaceful protest and righteous indignation start in Hollywood, just asking for a friend?
So an innocent woman, Halyna Hutchins, (aka minority victim) was wrongfully killed by an old white man, Alec Baldwin, (aka the oppressive misogynistic member of the patriarchy), what time does the rioting, burning, looting and violence, oops I meant mostly peaceful protest and righteous indignation start in Hollywood, just asking for a friend?
Nah. She’s the wrong color of “minority”
BLM And ANTIFA don’t give a schitt unless your black.
Why was Alec Baldwin, a scum bag with a known and documented history of alcohol/drug abuse and violence/anger management issues allowed to use a firearm? Aren't leftist liberal communist democrats always screaming about keeping guns out of the hands of such people?
Why was Alec Baldwin, a scum bag with a known and documented history of alcohol/drug abuse and violence/anger management issues allowed to use a firearm? Aren't leftist liberal communist democrats always screaming about keeping guns out of the hands of such people?
Libertards don’t follow rules. They believe in: “Do as I say, not as I do”
Asswipe made a Twitter press statement. Sounds like he’s covering his ass to me.
“He expressed his condolences to Hutchins' family and called the shooting an accident.” “There are no words to convey my shock and sadness regarding the tragic accident that took the life of Halyna Hutchins, a wife, mother and deeply admired colleague of ours," he said Friday morning on Twitter.” “I'm fully cooperating with the police investigation to address how this tragedy occurred and I am in touch with her husband, offering my support to him and his family. My heart is broken for her husband, their son, and all who knew and loved Halyna," the actor concluded.”
Alec Baldwin breaks silence after killing crew member in disastrous gun mishap on movie set
It's a tragedy indeed, and filming is now shut down, of course, but even if this had never occurred I would never see a movie that had Alec in it or connected to it. That arrogant Hollywood azz wipe has been on my you-know-what list for a long time. So even if that movie ever gets made I won't see it anyway.
I always assumed they had a firearms safety/arsenal expert in charge of all guns and usage, surely they aren't letting actors pick up guns/load and go film a scene ?
There was another actor killed a while back with a point blank head shot, can't remember who he was...but wasn't Lee.
I always assumed they had a firearms safety/arsenal expert in charge of all guns and usage, surely they aren't letting actors pick up guns/load and go film a scene ?
There was another actor killed a while back with a point blank head shot, can't remember who he was...but wasn't Lee.
It appears another member answered the question in another thread(yeah, we have 2 threads on Idiot Baldwin)
"Jon-Erik Hexum killed himself with a prop gun back in 1984."
Baldwin fired the gun, be nice if the POS gets charged with accidental manslaughter.
IMDb offers the following synopsis of “Rust,” which has now been halted: “A 13 year-old boy, left to fend for himself and his younger brother following the death of their parents in 1880’s Kansas, goes on the run with his long estranged grandfather after he’s sentenced to hang for the accidental killing of a local rancher.”
I read this last night and thought how ironic. I am surprised no one here posted this yet. The irony of Baldwin playing the grandfather who is sentenced to hang for an accidental killing. You guys saying he should hang for it didn't even know you were quoting the script.
I think the grandson is sentenced to hang, not the grandfather.... but still ironic!
Baldwin will say that it's the armorer's job to ensure weapons are loaded with blanks only. Also, since he was firing towards the camera, the director may have told him to fire towards the camera or told the cinematographer to stand in front of the gun. The police probably would have arrested him already if they thought they could make anything stick. The one thing that could change that would be if they had evidence he was horsing around and/or threatening people.
Rust was a small budget movie that probably only had one prop person. That person might not be a weapons expert, and he or she might also have been working for 48+ hours straight, and blanks don't always look terribly different from wadcutters.
The movie will never be finished. The prop person will never work in movies again and will be sued into financial ruin. The movie company will be sued and their insurance will pay out millions to the victim's family. The director probably won't sue anyone if he wants to work again.
Baldwin's attorney(s) will hire PR people who likely are already arranging an Oprah moment where he cries on TV and talks about what a tragedy gun violence is and how he's donating his time and money to gun control, totally ignoring the hypocrisy of his using a gun to make a living.
I'm not defending Baldwin, but all actors are to study the script, be on time, don't show up hung over, know their lines, etc... I highly doubt there's 1 actor male/female that's ever checked the gun prior to filming, and that's 1000's of rounds shot through the years by many many actors.
It's someone's job to be in charge of the firearms, the animals, and even the food cart...but none of those are the actors job or responsibility. I don't like the guy, but do feel kind of bad for him considering the damage he's done to some people's lives...and have to live with the fact that he took a life, and wounded another.
Baldwin will say that it's the armorer's job to ensure weapons are loaded with blanks only. Also, since he was firing towards the camera, the director may have told him to fire towards the camera or told the cinematographer to stand in front of the gun. The police probably would have arrested him already if they thought they could make anything stick. The one thing that could change that would be if they had evidence he was horsing around and/or threatening people.
Rust was a small budget movie that probably only had one prop person. That person might not be a weapons expert, and he or she might also have been working for 48+ hours straight, and blanks don't always look terribly different from wadcutters.
The movie will never be finished. The prop person will never work in movies again and will be sued into financial ruin. The movie company will be sued and their insurance will pay out millions to the victim's family. The director probably won't sue anyone if he wants to work again.
Baldwin's attorney(s) will hire PR people who likely are already arranging an Oprah moment where he cries on TV and talks about what a tragedy gun violence is and how he's donating his time and money to gun control, totally ignoring the hypocrisy of his using a gun to make a living.
Yep. You can bet your ass on the crying on Opra Tour. And a HUGE ANTI GUN PROPAGANDA BLITZ.
Libertard Hypocrites like Baldwin love to blame everyone but themselves. The sad part is he’ll probably skate free because of a Libertard Prosecutor and Sherriff in Santa Fe. Or get off with probation and community service.
...Baldwin's attorney(s) will hire PR people who likely are already arranging an Oprah moment where he cries on TV and talks about what a tragedy gun violence is and how he's donating his time and money to gun control, totally ignoring the hypocrisy of his using a gun to make a living.
That's exactly what will happen.
"Oh boo hoo, it's all about me, poor me, look how virtuously sad I am, and btw everyone should use this as an example of why we need to ban guns for everybody except movie actors who make multi-million dollar salaries portraying how cool they are with guns."
I always assumed they had a firearms safety/arsenal expert in charge of all guns and usage, surely they aren't letting actors pick up guns/load and go film a scene ?
There was another actor killed a while back with a point blank head shot, can't remember who he was...but wasn't Lee.
...Baldwin's attorney(s) will hire PR people who likely are already arranging an Oprah moment where he cries on TV and talks about what a tragedy gun violence is and how he's donating his time and money to gun control, totally ignoring the hypocrisy of his using a gun to make a living.
That's exactly what will happen.
"Oh boo hoo, it's all about me, poor me, look how virtuously sad I am, and btw everyone should use this as an example of why we need to ban guns for everybody except movie actors who make multi-million dollar salaries portraying how cool they are with guns."
Baldwin has been acting for many years. Therefore, as a long time actor, he can cry on demand. Whenever he's being interviewed/filmed now regarding the "incident," he'll turn on the tears at the right moment. It'll do him much good with his liberal fans ... but it won't help him in court when the civil suits are tried.
If it were an accident, only one would have been shot. He is famous for being a hothead, he shot them on purpose.
Camera producer is behind the camera lining up the shot. Director is right behind her leaning over her lining up the shot. Baldwin is told to shoot at the camera. He shoots at the camera. The bullet goes through the woman and into the shoulder of the director.
You would be kind of at the mercy of your prop people. You could check the pistol, but from the back, a blank is going to look the same as a live round. You could say he shouldn’t have been pointing it at anyone, but maybe he wasn’t. They don’t point pistols firing blanks at people because they’ve learned bad things can happen even with blanks. But an actual bullet goes a lot farther than blank. For all we know they could have been shooting and these people were twenty yards away doing something else.
I always loaded any firearm in front of the actor using it. Showed them they were blanks and answered any questions they might have.
Those are not movie blanks. Those are mounted shooting sport blanks. They have some corn cob tumbling media at the end behind the black powder to pop the balloons. Shotgun pattern.
The approved movie blanks now have flash powder, not black powder like the old Stembridge movie blanks did.
Wow. That report, if true, fills in a lot of blanks. And if true, I would expect charges. 3 discharges prior to the event certainly illustrates a pattern of negligence.
The crew arrived at 6am and immediately started packing up their gear to leave, there were many problems on the set from paychecks, motels too far away, food, and working conditions. The film crew left about 6 hours prior to the "accident", which happened during a scene practice run.
News is reporting the firearm being used was a shotgun, explains the twofer.
Wouldn't be surprised.
Shotguns are about the most dangerous guns on the set of a movie. Lots of blast coming out that barrel. f the black powder blanks are old, or had some moisture, the powder can become the projectile.
Two previous ND’s before this, crew having to put in 50 mile drives before and after long days filming because they wouldn’t put em up closer in Santa Fe, people complaining of unsafe conditions.
I guess we’ll see how much Baldwin, as the Producer, owns this mess.
Wonder if Trump will go on SNL and do an Alec Baldwin with a 6 gun impersonation?
That would be Fuggin Awesome. And Hilarious.
Trump ought to troll the schitt out of him!
I'd pay to see it!
Would make Trump look bad, he's not that stupid.
Agreed Roger. Trump’s got way more class than that asswipe Baldwin, to do it. But it would still be funny as schitt! And like Barry said, I’d pay to see it ! 🤠
I'm not defending Baldwin, but all actors are to study the script, be on time, don't show up hung over, know their lines, etc... I highly doubt there's 1 actor male/female that's ever checked the gun prior to filming, and that's 1000's of rounds shot through the years by many many actors.
It's someone's job to be in charge of the firearms, the animals, and even the food cart...but none of those are the actors job or responsibility. I don't like the guy, but do feel kind of bad for him considering the damage he's done to some people's lives...and have to live with the fact that he took a life, and wounded another.
It is ultimately the responsibility of the clown holding the firearm...and if they are not competent then they do not get to hold firearms.
That is how it works for the rest of us commoners.
So an innocent woman, Halyna Hutchins, (aka minority victim) was wrongfully killed by an old white man, Alec Baldwin, (aka the oppressive misogynistic member of the patriarchy), what time does the rioting, burning, looting and violence, oops I meant mostly peaceful protest and righteous indignation start in Hollywood, just asking for a friend?
Nah. She’s the wrong color of “minority”
BLM And ANTIFA don’t give a schitt unless your black.
Well huh...here I as thinking the "white" is a minority in the USA.
Certainly seems that way going by the tv programs and ads.
Aren't these part of the same crowd that want to ban private ownership of any and all firearms, using the excuse it will make our streets and society safer?
Good example of what they are talking about.....
We need laws where democRats can't own or even touch firearms....
I’m not going to read 20 pages across 3 threads to see if this has been asked before but WTF were there real bullets in the gun?
That's the real question, late last night they said(Sheriff dept)the gun was handed to Baldwin by the Assistant Director. And that all union employees were requested to leave the set well before the incident, and non-union "replacements" were brought in.
There had been complaints of 3 previous "accidental discharges" of the exact same weapon, earlier in the week.
I also just read that the set armorer was the daughter of Thell Reed, so she should've known better.
That’s the problem. She got the job because everyone assumed, being who she was that she would know better. But in the end, she evidently didn’t.
Maybe smart, but lacking the cockiness to tell Baldwin to GFH when he asked to do something stupid. Immaturity can be a killer.
Nope. She placed three guns on a table for the scene and declared them all “cold”. The assistant director took one of them and gave it to Baldwin and told him it was “cold”.
Nope. She placed three guns on a table for the scene and declared them all “cold”. The assistant director took one of them and gave it to Baldwin and told him it was “cold”.
Was the set armorer one of the Union members that left earlier?
No, I don’t think so. She had the job from the start.
Yep.
Quote
But she was way too inexperienced and stupid.
‘It was also my first time being head armorer as well. You know, I was really nervous about it at first, and I almost didn’t take the job because I wasn’t sure if I was ready, but, doing it, like, it went really smoothly.’
Hannah had previously apprenticed alongside her dad who helped train her up, and revealed she had worried about working with blanks until she ‘figured out on her own’ how to make them ‘go when you want it to’.
She continued: ‘He took me from being completely green and taught me everything I know so far and by all means, I am still learning.
‘Dad has taught me everything but a lot of things I just kind of caught on by myself through observation, watching him do things or just knowing how the firearms work.
‘I think loading blanks was the scariest thing to me because I was like “oh I don’t know anything about it.”
You think when she is talking about “loading” a blank she is talking about loading her own? Surely, she is not referring to the physical act of placing a blank in the firearm.
According to the Union President, NO UNION members remained on the set, they were all requested to leave prior to the incident. So Hanna couldn't have been the original armorer, if she wasn't Union.
Sounds to me like Hannah would make the perfect scapegoat if someone wanted to know how it felt to shoot someone. Just saying.
Yup
Mostlikely where it is heading to protect the stupid
Actually the only safety measure when filming with firearms IS the armourer.
They ARE responsible.
Does anyone trust any of the actors who make movies to know about all aspects of firearms, safety while filming, various blank and dummy loads? That's the armourer's job.
Just like you don't let Tom Cruise wire and set off explosives, you don't let actors or anyone else on set be in control of any aspect of firearms.
This gal was dangerous, and had had firearm accidental discharges from that incompetence at least a couple of times before the fatal shooting on this movie.
Also very ironic that an ultra liberal like Baldwin would replace Union workers who walked off set over working conditions with non-union worker....and that decision bit him in the schlong
Sounds to me like Hannah would make the perfect scapegoat if someone wanted to know how it felt to shoot someone. Just saying.
Yup
Mostlikely where it is heading to protect the stupid
Actually the only safety measure when filming with firearms IS the armourer.
They ARE responsible.
Does anyone trust any of the actors who make movies to know about all aspects of firearms, safety while filming, various blank and dummy loads? That's the armourer's job.
Just like you don't let Tom Cruise wire and set off explosives, you don't let actors or anyone else on set be in control of any aspect of firearms.
This gal was dangerous, and had had firearm accidental discharges from that incompetence at least a couple of times before the fatal shooting on this movie.
The idiots who hired her are incompetent as well.
Finally, someone that gets it...it's the sole job/responsibility of the Armorer. With the 10,0000's of shots fired in movies through the years, don't expect me to believe that Angelina Jolie and George Clooney were ever hired nor expected to be weapon's experts.
Imagine an actor personally emptying a 40 round mag from an AR15, just so he could check the ammo for safety...and doing so 20 times a movie. They are actors, portraying characters...not special forces or weapon experts.
Unless Baldwin broke protocol or was screwing around, he's not the guilty party in this accident. They have pages of strict rules for gun handling in movies for the actors, they showed them last night on the news....most of those rules are useless if live ammo is introduced into the equation.
I'd like to see him hung, but his isn't a legitimate instance of guilt....unless he fugged up of course.
Why would you possibly have live ammunition on a movie set?
What purpose would it serve vs the obvious safety risks?
I served as armourer on on a couple of pretty intensive firearm inclusive films.
I specifically banned any and all live ammo, blank ammo, dummy rounds, or firearms not provided by me assigned to a specific person by me daily as the movie required.
Beyond that, I gave a half hour class to ALL movie personnel on the set before filming began. Also provided ear protection, and technical advise on firearm scenes, as well as coaching for actors on how to handle firearms, draw, shoot, twirl revolvers, etc.
Anyone caught violating those rules would be banned from the set. (I never had to flag a major star for a violation, but I would have probably been overruled... ) They would just not oust a major player in a movie for being stupid, that was certain.
Why would you possibly have live ammunition on a movie set?
What purpose would it serve vs the obvious safety risks?
I served as armourer on on a couple of pretty intensive firearm inclusive films.
I specifically banned any and all live ammo, blank ammo, dummy rounds, or firearms not provided by me assigned to a specific person by me daily as the movie required.
Beyond that, I gave a half hour class to ALL movie personnel on the set before filming began. Also provided ear protection, and technical advise on firearm scenes, as well as coaching for actors on how to handle firearms, draw, shoot, twirl revolvers, etc.
Anyone caught violating those rules would be banned from the set. (I never had to flag a major star for a violation, but I would have probably been overruled... ) They would just not oust a major player in a movie for being stupid, that was certain.
Sounds like it was an accident caused by someone's negligence, maybe not Baldwin's. A civil matter for damages. Not a crime. Not every negligent act that results in death is an unlawful homicide. Mr. Baldwin may be a piece of crap personally and politically but it doesn't sound like he is criminal in this case.
It’s tragic but unless the truth can come out we’re all just relying on here say. Was “she” relying on what the original armorer told her? Was there another armorer? Hollywood has turned into a chit show. Woke activists abound. Liter millions of rounds have been fired safely by actors since the cinema began.
I served as armourer on on a couple of pretty intensive firearm inclusive films.
I specifically banned any and all live ammo, blank ammo, dummy rounds, or firearms not provided by me assigned to a specific person by me daily as the movie required.
Beyond that, I gave a half hour class to ALL movie personnel on the set before filming began. Also provided ear protection, and technical advise on firearm scenes, as well as coaching for actors on how to handle firearms, draw, shoot, twirl revolvers, etc.
Anyone caught violating those rules would be banned from the set. (I never had to flag a major star for a violation, but I would have probably been overruled... ) They would just not oust a major player in a movie for being stupid, that was certain.
I watched a licensed/certified armourer on TV last night, and he did shed some light on a few things I didn't know.
He stated and show 2 types of revolvers used in filming movies, 1 was a "real" gun and 1 was a "prop" gun. He stated the guns were identical in build, and showed the difference. The real gun could fire "blanks" or "live" ammo, the prop gun had a permanent insert in the cylinder that was smaller that "live" ammo....and only special "blank" ammo could be inserted and shot out of it. Live ammo wouldn't even fit in the gun, only a crimped/wad blank.
Sounds like it was an accident caused by someone's negligence, maybe not Baldwin's. A civil matter for damages. Not a crime. Not every negligent act that results in death is an unlawful homicide. Mr. Baldwin may be a piece of crap personally and politically but it doesn't sound like he is criminal in this case.
It well may be, but remember, Obamacare sounded pretty good too.
He stated and show 2 types of revolvers used in filming movies, 1 was a "real" gun and 1 was a "prop" gun. He stated the guns were identical in build, and showed the difference. The real gun could fire "blanks" or "live" ammo, the prop gun had a permanent insert in the cylinder that was smaller that "live" ammo....and only special "blank" ammo could be inserted and shot out of it. Live ammo wouldn't even fit in the gun, only a crimped/wad blank.
Maybe you could expand on these statements. ?
Nobody I knew dealt with "prop guns" much.
All the guns I dealt with were the real McCoy with a couple of exceptions.
I did use a Beretta 92 clone prop gun that fired only 8mm blanks. It would look and fire as a real gun, but had a solid barrel, and no real ammo could be loaded in it. Like this: https://www.westernstageprops.com/blank-firing-gun-beretta-92f-blued-finish-p/sg92.htm The actor, Charles Napier who I got that gun for was a raging alcoholic, and could not be trusted with a real gun at all. He was dangerous enough without one.
All semiautomatics and full auto guns had a blocked barrel to increase gas pressure to cycle the firearm. An open, normal barrel will not cycle the action while shooting blanks. If live ammo were loaded in one of those it would cause a major Boom!
All western movie guns I worked with were fully functional firearms, from revolvers to rifles and shotguns. Shotguns were the most dangerous in my opinion, as they had a large blast and emitted lots of dangerous particles.
Had to give a director a lesson in that when he was shooting scene with a double 12ga. He kept wanting me to load full power black powder loads and I kept refusing. He was getting pissed, but I was friends with him, and told him to humor me... And sent to wardrobe for a white bedsheet. We stretched the bedsheet like a screen and I loaded the rounds he wanted in the shotgun and let both barrels go. The rounds tattooed and put several holes in the sheet....
It is hard to understand how something like this could happen. If someone checked the gun and said it was empty prior to handing him the gun, how did they miss a round chambered. If it was in fact a real round, containing a real bullet, and not one of the many types of blanks used on sets, how did that round get on the set in the first place.
Seems there are multiple issues going on here that allowed something like this to happen. A series of mistakes or a deliberate act of an individual. Most likely a series of mistakes made that lead to the accident.
In healthcare, whenever someone dies from medical malpractice, it is rarely from a single event. It is almost always a series of events that should have been caught at multiple points in the process, but for whatever reason isn't. I'm thinking this will prove to be the case here, unless it was an intentional act by someone.
He stated and show 2 types of revolvers used in filming movies, 1 was a "real" gun and 1 was a "prop" gun. He stated the guns were identical in build, and showed the difference. The real gun could fire "blanks" or "live" ammo, the prop gun had a permanent insert in the cylinder that was smaller that "live" ammo....and only special "blank" ammo could be inserted and shot out of it. Live ammo wouldn't even fit in the gun, only a crimped/wad blank.
Maybe you could expand on these statements. ?
Nobody I knew dealt with "prop guns" much.
All the guns I dealt with were the real McCoy with a couple of exceptions.
I did use a Beretta 92 clone prop gun that fired only 8mm blanks. It would look and fire as a real gun, but had a solid barrel, and no real ammo could be loaded in it. The actor, Charles Napier who I got that gun for was a raging alcoholic, and could not be trusted with a real gun at all. He was dangerous enough without one.
All semiautomatics and full auto guns had a blocked barrel to increase gas pressure to cycle the firearm. An open, normal barrel will not cycle the action while shooting blanks. If live ammo were loaded in one of those it would cause a major Boom!
All western movie guns I worked with were fully functional firearms, from revolvers to rifles and shotguns. Shotguns were the most dangerous in my opinion, as they had a large blast and emitted lots of dangerous particles.
Had to give a director a lesson in that when he was shooting scene with a double 12ga. He kept wanting me to load full power black powder loads and I kept refusing. He was getting pissed, but I was friends with him, and told him to humor me... And sent to wardrobe for a white bedsheet. We stretched the bedsheet like a screen and I loaded the rounds he wanted in the shotgun and let both barrels go. The rounds tattooed and put several holes in the sheet....
He didn't ask again.
Interesting, the guy last night was showing a S&W stainless revolver, and the prop gun did appear to be open barrel. He said the primer ignited the powder, and the "blank" was a crimped case with a paper or plastic wad that would exit the barrel.
Which is what I think happened to the actor in 1984(heal 44 mag with blanks to his head screwing around, and fractured his skull and died)....along with the Jason Lee incident with a blank shot at his stomach, but shards of blank plastic entered his stomach as a projectile...6 hours of surgery later he died at 28 years old.
What kind of ignorant moron takes somebody’s word that a firearm is unloaded and “safe” without checking for himself when it is handed to him, then proceeds to point it at someone and pull the trigger?
Oh yeah, an ignorant, liberal moron like Alec Baldwin
So much stupidity and negligence in this incident to know where to begin.
And these Hollywood idiots are idolized by Commie democrat zombies nationwide.
What kind of ignorant moron takes somebody’s word that a firearm is unloaded and “safe” without checking for himself when it is handed to him, then proceeds to point it at someone and pull the trigger?
Oh yeah, an ignorant, liberal moron like Alec Baldwin
So much stupidity and negligence in this incident to know where to begin.
And these Hollywood idiots are idolized by Commie democrat zombies nationwide.
It's not the actors job or responsibility, as stated by Rockinbbar above...and he worked on filming sets.
Which is what I think happened to the actor in 1984(heal 44 mag with blanks to his head screwing around, and fractured his skull and died)....along with the Jason Lee incident with a blank shot at his stomach, but shards of blank plastic entered his stomach as a projectile...6 hours of surgery later he died at 28 years old.
John Erik Hexum was dicking around with a .44 Magnum loaded with blanks, and put the barrel to his temple and pulled the trigger.
Instant dead.
Brandon Lee was killed on the set because they were filming a closeup of the gun, supposedly using dummy rounds to look like live ammo.... They did the closeup of the gun firing dummy rounds, then loaded the gun with blanks and did the scene that killed him.
The "dummy rounds" used had a live primer... And when they pulled the trigger, the primer pushed the bullet into the barrel. Once the blanks were loaded for the scene, it was fired, and the pressure from the blank shot the bullet out, just as if it had been real live ammo.
Armourer was at fault for not checking the gun, as well as having a live primer in the dummy rounds.
"then proceeds to point it at someone and pull the trigger?"
I too would like to hear why He pointed the gun at someone while pulling the trigger, "blanks" or not. There could be a legit reason (in the movie making world), and no doubt if there isn't, one will be found.
Which is what I think happened to the actor in 1984(heal 44 mag with blanks to his head screwing around, and fractured his skull and died)....along with the Jason Lee incident with a blank shot at his stomach, but shards of blank plastic entered his stomach as a projectile...6 hours of surgery later he died at 28 years old.
John Erik Hexum was dicking around with a .44 Magnum loaded with blanks, and put the barrel to his temple and pulled the trigger.
Instant dead.
Brandon Lee was killed on the set because they were filming a closeup of the gun, supposedly using dummy rounds to look like live ammo.... They did the closeup of the gun firing dummy rounds, then loaded the gun with blanks and did the scene that killed him.
The "dummy rounds" used had a live primer... And when they pulled the trigger, the primer pushed the bullet into the barrel. Once the blanks were loaded for the scene, it was fired, and the pressure from the blank shot the bullet out, just as if it had been real live ammo.
Armourer was at fault for not checking the gun, as well as having a live primer in the dummy rounds.
Yes I understood the 1st incident with Hexum, but wasn't aware of the Lee details...thanks for explaining.
What kind of ignorant moron takes somebody’s word that a firearm is unloaded and “safe” without checking for himself when it is handed to him, then proceeds to point it at someone and pull the trigger?
Oh yeah, an ignorant, liberal moron like Alec Baldwin
So much stupidity and negligence in this incident to know where to begin.
And these Hollywood idiots are idolized by Commie democrat zombies nationwide.
It's not the actors job or responsibility, as stated by Rockinbbar above...and he worked on filming sets.
Actually it’s the job of everyone who is handed a firearm by someone else
"then proceeds to point it at someone and pull the trigger?"
I too would like to hear why He pointed the gun at someone while pulling the trigger, "blanks" or not. There could be a legit reason (in the movie making world), and no doubt if there isn't, one will be found.
It would make a teeny tiny bit more sense of the person he shot was another actor while filming a scene, but an assistant director or crew member???
What kind of ignorant moron takes somebody’s word that a firearm is unloaded and “safe” without checking for himself when it is handed to him, then proceeds to point it at someone and pull the trigger?
Oh yeah, an ignorant, liberal moron like Alec Baldwin
So much stupidity and negligence in this incident to know where to begin.
And these Hollywood idiots are idolized by Commie democrat zombies nationwide.
It's not the actors job or responsibility, as stated by Rockinbbar above...and he worked on filming sets.
Actually it’s the job of everyone who is handed a firearm by someone else
Actually, no...actors are not nor claim to be weapons experts, they have a Pro on site for that very important job and responsibility.
My guess is that most actors have become complacent to any type of firearm safety due to the fact that it was someone else’s job. I am sure that is about to change.
What kind of ignorant moron takes somebody’s word that a firearm is unloaded and “safe” without checking for himself when it is handed to him, then proceeds to point it at someone and pull the trigger?
Oh yeah, an ignorant, liberal moron like Alec Baldwin
So much stupidity and negligence in this incident to know where to begin.
And these Hollywood idiots are idolized by Commie democrat zombies nationwide.
It's not the actors job or responsibility, as stated by Rockinbbar above...and he worked on filming sets.
Actually it’s the job of everyone who is handed a firearm by someone else
Actually, no...actors are not nor claim to be weapons experts, they have a Pro on site for that very important job and responsibility.
The “pro” or “authority” should be required to demonstrate to the person he’s handing the firearm to that it is safe.
My guess is that most actors have become complacent to any type of firearm safety due to the fact that it was someone else’s job. I am sure that is about to change.
I think gun safety used to be worse in the movies than it is now.
I know several actors got pretty good at twirling sixguns while on the set of movies and TV shows. All that down time in costume and nothing to do, but play with the guns.
Sammy Davis Jr. turned out to be one that got really, really good with a gun. He was a national competitor on the fast draw competitions. He was really good.
What kind of ignorant moron takes somebody’s word that a firearm is unloaded and “safe” without checking for himself when it is handed to him, then proceeds to point it at someone and pull the trigger?
Oh yeah, an ignorant, liberal moron like Alec Baldwin
So much stupidity and negligence in this incident to know where to begin.
And these Hollywood idiots are idolized by Commie democrat zombies nationwide.
It's not the actors job or responsibility, as stated by Rockinbbar above...and he worked on filming sets.
Actually it’s the job of everyone who is handed a firearm by someone else
Actually, no...actors are not nor claim to be weapons experts, they have a Pro on site for that very important job and responsibility.
The “pro” or “authority” should be required to demonstrate to the person he’s handing the firearm to that it is safe.
Meaning, open the action and visually show the novice that it is empty or loaded with blank ammo
A guess Union set up To cause another mess on the set before they all left. Told the new girl these are ready to go. She trusted Union shut down production as they wanted.
Nope. She placed three guns on a table for the scene and declared them all “cold”. The assistant director took one of them and gave it to Baldwin and told him it was “cold”.
No matter what happened, or who was responsible....why was "live" ammo with in 5 miles of the set, that's the real question.
I'm not defending Baldwin, I don't like him nor his antics/politics...but somebody else was responsible for the mishap, unless he blatantly broke protocol and was horsing around.
I'm getting the feeling the 'armorer' was incompetent for the job.
Sounds like no positive control of the firearms, someone shooting real ammo off set, having fun with the firearms, then placing them back on the armorer's cart. Nothing cleared, nothing checked, gun handed to Baldwin with no safety checks.
So an innocent woman, Halyna Hutchins, (aka minority victim) was wrongfully killed by an old white man, Alec Baldwin, (aka the oppressive misogynistic member of the patriarchy), what time does the rioting, burning, looting and violence, oops I meant mostly peaceful protest and righteous indignation start in Hollywood, just asking for a friend?
Nah. She’s the wrong color of “minority”
BLM And ANTIFA don’t give a schitt unless your black.
Well huh...here I as thinking the "white" is a minority in the USA.
Certainly seems that way going by the tv programs and ads.
We will soon be the Minority with all the Fuggin Wetbacks Hiden Biden is letting cross the Southern Border every day 😡
Texas is nearly there already. Couple of years at this rate and the TX majority will be Brown.
What kind of ignorant moron takes somebody’s word that a firearm is unloaded and “safe” without checking for himself when it is handed to him, then proceeds to point it at someone and pull the trigger?
Oh yeah, an ignorant, liberal moron like Alec Baldwin
So much stupidity and negligence in this incident to know where to begin.
And these Hollywood idiots are idolized by Commie democrat zombies nationwide.
It's not the actors job or responsibility, as stated by Rockinbbar above...and he worked on filming sets.
Actually it’s the job of everyone who is handed a firearm by someone else
Actually, no...actors are not nor claim to be weapons experts, they have a Pro on site for that very important job and responsibility.
It is the ultimate responsibility of the person with the gun in their hand. This incident is proof of that. There is plenty of blame to go around, but the actor doesn’t get a free pass by blaming someone else. If Baldwin practiced the most basic of gun safety the woman would be alive. Saying that he doesn’t have the ultimate responsibility is irresponsible on its face.
It is the ultimate responsibility of the person with the gun in their hand. This incident is proof of that. There is plenty of blame to go around, but the actor doesn’t get a free pass by blaming someone else. If Baldwin practiced the most basic of gun safety the woman would be alive. Saying that he doesn’t have the ultimate responsibility is irresponsible on its face.
A movie set is the exception.
The armourer is responsible.
Visualize a class of kindergarten kids.... That's what the actors are. The armourer is the teacher, and responsible for all of them. You cannot expect actors to know the first thing about gun safety. Just as you can't expect kindergartners to cross a busy highway by themselves.
It is the ultimate responsibility of the person with the gun in their hand. This incident is proof of that. There is plenty of blame to go around, but the actor doesn’t get a free pass by blaming someone else. If Baldwin practiced the most basic of gun safety the woman would be alive. Saying that he doesn’t have the ultimate responsibility is irresponsible on its face.
A movie set is the exception.
The armourer is responsible.
Visualize a class of kindergarten kids.... That's what the actors are. The armourer is the teacher, and responsible for all of them. You cannot expect actors to know the first thing about gun safety. Just as you can't expect kindergartners to cross a busy highway by themselves.
It is the ultimate responsibility of the person with the gun in their hand. This incident is proof of that. There is plenty of blame to go around, but the actor doesn’t get a free pass by blaming someone else. If Baldwin practiced the most basic of gun safety the woman would be alive. Saying that he doesn’t have the ultimate responsibility is irresponsible on its face.
I'm not trying to argue the point, but logic dictates the use of "blank" guns used in TV/Movies.
Do you really believe that Al Pacino checked every round in 15 magazines, before firing them off in Scarface ? Do you really believe that Clint Eastwood checked his pistol before any shooting, in all of his movies including spaghetti westerns ? How many rounds do you think Matt Damon shot off in Greenzone, do you think he emptied every mag and reloaded them himself to ensure safety ?
Or do they rely on the Professional being paid a handsome some to purely control the weapons and "ammo" ? Do you think the actor questions the Pro's ability at doing his job ?, do you think the Pro dictates to the actor what he's doing wrong in his character portrayal ?
In any profession, you allow the Pro/expert to do his job and trust his skill and knowledge in his individual skill set. Unless you see obvious mistakes, or alcohol/drug consumption, you let the Pro do his job. All of the previous statement is BS if Baldwin was screwing around, and just shooting off round like a moron.
It is the ultimate responsibility of the person with the gun in their hand. This incident is proof of that. There is plenty of blame to go around, but the actor doesn’t get a free pass by blaming someone else. If Baldwin practiced the most basic of gun safety the woman would be alive. Saying that he doesn’t have the ultimate responsibility is irresponsible on its face.
A movie set is the exception.
The armourer is responsible.
Visualize a class of kindergarten kids.... That's what the actors are. The armourer is the teacher, and responsible for all of them. You cannot expect actors to know the first thing about gun safety. Just as you can't expect kindergartners to cross a busy highway by themselves.
Thank you, from a man that has actually worked on film sets as the armourer....unlike 99% of us here.
It is the ultimate responsibility of the person with the gun in their hand. This incident is proof of that. There is plenty of blame to go around, but the actor doesn’t get a free pass by blaming someone else. If Baldwin practiced the most basic of gun safety the woman would be alive. Saying that he doesn’t have the ultimate responsibility is irresponsible on its face.
A movie set is the exception.
The armourer is responsible.
Visualize a class of kindergarten kids.... That's what the actors are. The armourer is the teacher, and responsible for all of them. You cannot expect actors to know the first thing about gun safety. Just as you can't expect kindergartners to cross a busy highway by themselves.
I do know that actors take classes learning how to handle firearms. That have to act competent when shooting. Why wouldn’t they know anything about safety and firearm handling. It’s quite apparent that Baldwin is a cluck but he is a veteran actor and should be expected to know quite a lot about firearms. At least that’s the way I see it. Again I can’t say what exactly happened on the set except he shot an innocent bystander and wounded another. That’s a fact.
I do know that actors take classes learning how to handle firearms. That have to act competent when shooting. Why wouldn’t they know anything about safety and firearm handling. It’s quite apparent that Baldwin is a cluck but he is a veteran actor and should be expected to know quite a lot about firearms. At least that’s the way I see it. Again I can’t say what exactly happened on the set except he shot an innocent bystander and wounded another. That’s a fact.
I gave a class to everyone while working as an armourer on movie sets. So, they "may" have been given something similar.
I coached actors on how to handle firearms as well.
Alec Baldwin messed up once before on a movie set I was on with him. (Not as an armourer, BTW)
He played Col. Travis in "13 Days the Glory"... He had a saber and took it out and was dicking around with it, waving it around and such. It was just a cheap sword, and the blade came out of the handle, and when the blade came falling down, it cut the living schidt out of his hand. They had to take him Del Rio to the ER to get his hand sewn back up...
It's not without possibility that Baldwin was dicking around this time as well. I doubt you'll hear the full truth from a movie crew, or Santa Fe law enforcement for that matter.
It is the ultimate responsibility of the person with the gun in their hand. This incident is proof of that. There is plenty of blame to go around, but the actor doesn’t get a free pass by blaming someone else. If Baldwin practiced the most basic of gun safety the woman would be alive. Saying that he doesn’t have the ultimate responsibility is irresponsible on its face.
A movie set is the exception.
The armourer is responsible.
Visualize a class of kindergarten kids.... That's what the actors are. The armourer is the teacher, and responsible for all of them. You cannot expect actors to know the first thing about gun safety. Just as you can't expect kindergartners to cross a busy highway by themselves.
The armourer is responsible as is Baldwin. I am not buying it that he isn't even with your kindergarten class analogy. These aren't kindergarten coloring classes and these are adults with guns. I realize you were an armourer on a set as you stated, but my opinion is also shared by a current armourer for these films.
I do know that actors take classes learning how to handle firearms. That have to act competent when shooting. Why wouldn’t they know anything about safety and firearm handling. It’s quite apparent that Baldwin is a cluck but he is a veteran actor and should be expected to know quite a lot about firearms. At least that’s the way I see it. Again I can’t say what exactly happened on the set except he shot an innocent bystander and wounded another. That’s a fact.
I do know that Keanu Reeves and Hallie Berry both trained extensively with live rounds for months before the filming of "John Wick". Someone here posted the videos, and they were quite long in length. They did police training on steel targets with pistol and AR style guns, with multiple trainers on site during the live ammo practice. Both seemed to really enjoy the sport and shooting, both gave interviews in the importance of looking realistic and understanding firearms.
With that said, I'll bet a ton of cash that neither would even consider disagreeing with the armourer's directions or instructions...he's the PRO.
It is the ultimate responsibility of the person with the gun in their hand. This incident is proof of that. There is plenty of blame to go around, but the actor doesn’t get a free pass by blaming someone else. If Baldwin practiced the most basic of gun safety the woman would be alive. Saying that he doesn’t have the ultimate responsibility is irresponsible on its face.
I'm not trying to argue the point, but logic dictates the use of "blank" guns used in TV/Movies.
Do you really believe that Al Pacino checked every round in 15 magazines, before firing them off in Scarface ? Do you really believe that Clint Eastwood checked his pistol before any shooting, in all of his movies including spaghetti westerns ? How many rounds do you think Matt Damon shot off in Greenzone, do you think he emptied every mag and reloaded them himself to ensure safety ?
Or do they rely on the Professional being paid a handsome some to purely control the weapons and "ammo" ? Do you think the actor questions the Pro's ability at doing his job ?, do you think the Pro dictates to the actor what he's doing wrong in his character portrayal ?
In any profession, you allow the Pro/expert to do his job and trust his skill and knowledge in his individual skill set. Unless you see obvious mistakes, or alcohol/drug consumption, you let the Pro do his job. All of the previous statement is BS if Baldwin was screwing around, and just shooting off round like a moron.
It is always the person's responsibility that is holding any gun. Transferring responsibility to someone else is how people get killed. Maybe you are comfortable with that, but I am not. I cannot answer for any of the actors you mentioned and how they verified or didn't the safety of their weapons. You are speculating just as I would be. Somehow none of them had an incident where someone was killed by their gun. What are the circumstances behind that neither you nor I know.
It is the ultimate responsibility of the person with the gun in their hand. This incident is proof of that. There is plenty of blame to go around, but the actor doesn’t get a free pass by blaming someone else. If Baldwin practiced the most basic of gun safety the woman would be alive. Saying that he doesn’t have the ultimate responsibility is irresponsible on its face.
A movie set is the exception.
The armourer is responsible.
Visualize a class of kindergarten kids.... That's what the actors are. The armourer is the teacher, and responsible for all of them. You cannot expect actors to know the first thing about gun safety. Just as you can't expect kindergartners to cross a busy highway by themselves.
The armourer is responsible as it Baldwin. I am not buying it that he isn't even with your kindergarten class analogy. These aren't kindergarten coloring classes and these are adults with guns. I realize you were an armourer on a set as you stated, but my opinion is also shared by a current armourer for these films.
It is the ultimate responsibility of the person with the gun in their hand. This incident is proof of that. There is plenty of blame to go around, but the actor doesn’t get a free pass by blaming someone else. If Baldwin practiced the most basic of gun safety the woman would be alive. Saying that he doesn’t have the ultimate responsibility is irresponsible on its face.
A movie set is the exception.
The armourer is responsible.
Visualize a class of kindergarten kids.... That's what the actors are. The armourer is the teacher, and responsible for all of them. You cannot expect actors to know the first thing about gun safety. Just as you can't expect kindergartners to cross a busy highway by themselves.
The armourer is responsible as it Baldwin. I am not buying it that he isn't even with your kindergarten class analogy. These aren't kindergarten coloring classes and these are adults with guns. I realize you were an armourer on a set as you stated, but my opinion is also shared by a current armourer for these films.
While I agree that he may have been acting a fool... It's the armourer's job to shut that behavior down, and make the set safe.
I have no issue with this statement and agree. It appears that the armourer wasn't up to snuff well before this tragic incident. But as you stated in your own experience that you wouldn't have been successful in shutting down someone like Baldwin. So now what happens?
It is the ultimate responsibility of the person with the gun in their hand. This incident is proof of that. There is plenty of blame to go around, but the actor doesn’t get a free pass by blaming someone else. If Baldwin practiced the most basic of gun safety the woman would be alive. Saying that he doesn’t have the ultimate responsibility is irresponsible on its face.
A movie set is the exception.
The armourer is responsible.
Visualize a class of kindergarten kids.... That's what the actors are. The armourer is the teacher, and responsible for all of them. You cannot expect actors to know the first thing about gun safety. Just as you can't expect kindergartners to cross a busy highway by themselves.
The armourer is responsible as it Baldwin. I am not buying it that he isn't even with your kindergarten class analogy. These aren't kindergarten coloring classes and these are adults with guns. I realize you were an armourer on a set as you stated, but my opinion is also shared by a current armourer for these films.
While I agree that he may have been acting a fool... It's the armourer's job to shut that behavior down, and make the set safe.
I have no issue with this statement and agree. It appears that the armourer wasn't up to snuff well before this tragic incident. But as you stated in your own experience that you wouldn't have been successful in shutting down someone like Baldwin. So now what happens?
I would surmise that the Armourer would walk off the set due to safety protocol, as listed extensively in the Union firearms manual...and the filming would be shut down, because there is no Armourer on location. If chiit hit the fan against the Armourer, his union would support his decision based on safety and rules.
I have no issue with this statement and agree. It appears that the armourer wasn't up to snuff well before this tragic incident. But as you stated in your own experience that you wouldn't have been successful in shutting down someone like Baldwin. So now what happens?
I would have absolutely been successful in shutting down dangerous behavior with a gun on set by anyone.
I stated that my remedy included banning that person from the set of the movie... And I doubted I would have been successful in that.
It is the ultimate responsibility of the person with the gun in their hand. This incident is proof of that. There is plenty of blame to go around, but the actor doesn’t get a free pass by blaming someone else. If Baldwin practiced the most basic of gun safety the woman would be alive. Saying that he doesn’t have the ultimate responsibility is irresponsible on its face.
A movie set is the exception.
The armourer is responsible.
Visualize a class of kindergarten kids.... That's what the actors are. The armourer is the teacher, and responsible for all of them. You cannot expect actors to know the first thing about gun safety. Just as you can't expect kindergartners to cross a busy highway by themselves.
The armourer is responsible as it Baldwin. I am not buying it that he isn't even with your kindergarten class analogy. These aren't kindergarten coloring classes and these are adults with guns. I realize you were an armourer on a set as you stated, but my opinion is also shared by a current armourer for these films.
While I agree that he may have been acting a fool... It's the armourer's job to shut that behavior down, and make the set safe.
I have no issue with this statement and agree. It appears that the armourer wasn't up to snuff well before this tragic incident. But as you stated in your own experience that you wouldn't have been successful in shutting down someone like Baldwin. So now what happens?
I would surmise that the Armourer would walk off the set due to safety protocol, as listed extensively in the Union firearms manual...and the filming would be shut down, because there is no Armourer on location. If chiit hit the fan against the Armourer, his union would support his decision based on safety and rules.
You could also assume that the armourer would be replaced just like the other union crew were replaced. You still have the opportunity for the tragic event due to poor gun safety by the actor. All your example does is show how the armourer does not have the ultimate control that you and rockinbar are implying.
I have no issue with this statement and agree. It appears that the armourer wasn't up to snuff well before this tragic incident. But as you stated in your own experience that you wouldn't have been successful in shutting down someone like Baldwin. So now what happens?
I would have absolutely been successful in shutting down dangerous behavior with a gun on set by anyone.
I stated that my remedy included banning that person from the set of the movie... And I doubted I would have been successful in that.
That is good that you would have been able to shut it down, but you wouldn’t be able to ban Baldwin. Since we are playing hypotheticals what happens then if Baldwin has you replaced? I still lay the ultimate responsibility on Baldwin.
No horseplay Someone put a live round in that prop.
“Horseplay” meaning they’re jerking off, running around between scenes playing cowboys and Indians with prop guns “shooting” each other.
What other explanation is plausible as to why a firearm was pointed at an assistant director and shot?
It’s been theorized elsewhere that Baldwin was supposed to shoot in the direction of the camera during a scene, and that the cinematographer and AD were behind the camera.
It's not without possibility that Baldwin was dicking around this time as well. I doubt you'll hear the full truth from a movie crew, or Santa Fe law enforcement for that matter.
Visualize a class of kindergarten kids.... That's what the actors are. The armourer is the teacher, and responsible for all of them. You cannot expect actors to know the first thing about gun safety. Just as you can't expect kindergartners to cross a busy highway by themselves.
This is exactly why Hollywood dumb chits need to STFU when it comes to firearms safety and “gun control”.
It is the ultimate responsibility of the person with the gun in their hand. This incident is proof of that. There is plenty of blame to go around, but the actor doesn’t get a free pass by blaming someone else. If Baldwin practiced the most basic of gun safety the woman would be alive. Saying that he doesn’t have the ultimate responsibility is irresponsible on its face.
A movie set is the exception.
The armourer is responsible.
Visualize a class of kindergarten kids.... That's what the actors are. The armourer is the teacher, and responsible for all of them. You cannot expect actors to know the first thing about gun safety. Just as you can't expect kindergartners to cross a busy highway by themselves.
Rockinbar is 100 % correct.
You can bet the farm that the Santa Fe County Sheriff's homicide detectives are much better informed than we are ... or the rumor mills of Hollywood. They'll be investigating this incident for quite a while as they'll have to talk to multiple witnesses, multiple times, and examine multiple forensics reports.
EDIT: I've written quite a few shows wherein firearms were used by the actors. I've never written a script where I wrote in the exposition, "The actor aims his gun directly at camera." I've never known a writer who did.
If Baldwin aimed at the camera with the director and camera woman in line with camera, then it was the director who told him to aim at the camera ... and them. If so, did the director instruct Baldwin to cap off a round as they set up the scene?? Remains to be seen. The detectives will be looking at that possibility, too. Lots and lots of "ifs" in this tragic incident.
It is the ultimate responsibility of the person with the gun in their hand. This incident is proof of that. There is plenty of blame to go around, but the actor doesn’t get a free pass by blaming someone else. If Baldwin practiced the most basic of gun safety the woman would be alive. Saying that he doesn’t have the ultimate responsibility is irresponsible on its face.
A movie set is the exception.
The armourer is responsible.
Visualize a class of kindergarten kids.... That's what the actors are. The armourer is the teacher, and responsible for all of them. You cannot expect actors to know the first thing about gun safety. Just as you can't expect kindergartners to cross a busy highway by themselves.
Rockinbar is 100 % correct.
You can bet the farm that the Santa Fe County Sheriff's homicide detectives are much better informed than we are ... or the rumor mills of Hollywood. They'll be investigating this incident for quite a while as they'll have to talk to multiple witnesses, multiple times.
L.W.
There are no exceptions to gun safety. I can’t believe I am reading that some feel there are exceptions on this site.
It is the ultimate responsibility of the person with the gun in their hand. This incident is proof of that. There is plenty of blame to go around, but the actor doesn’t get a free pass by blaming someone else. If Baldwin practiced the most basic of gun safety the woman would be alive. Saying that he doesn’t have the ultimate responsibility is irresponsible on its face.
A movie set is the exception.
The armourer is responsible.
Visualize a class of kindergarten kids.... That's what the actors are. The armourer is the teacher, and responsible for all of them. You cannot expect actors to know the first thing about gun safety. Just as you can't expect kindergartners to cross a busy highway by themselves.
Rockinbar is 100 % correct.
You can bet the farm that the Santa Fe County Sheriff's homicide detectives are much better informed than we are ... or the rumor mills of Hollywood. They'll be investigating this incident for quite a while as they'll have to talk to multiple witnesses, multiple times.
L.W.
Agreed, and many of the witnesses will be pizzed off union workers that walked the job because of safety and working conditions. For Longbob to continue down this "hate Baldwin" theory vs the responsibility of the Armourer along with a long list of firearm rules...is tiring at best.
If Baldwin was at fault in any way, or bypassed protocol...then throw the book at him. But the whiny statements from Hanna the armourer "I was scared", "I was worried about the blanks"...sounds like she's setting herself up for a "poor me, I'm a young woman with minimal experience" defense at trial.
Either way, the armourer prepped the gun, then somehow the assistant director hands said weapon to Baldwin, and sounds like it had live ammo in the chamber. Sounds like someone really screwed the pooch, but that gun passed though a few hands before it landed in dikwad Baldwin's hands.
It is the ultimate responsibility of the person with the gun in their hand. This incident is proof of that. There is plenty of blame to go around, but the actor doesn’t get a free pass by blaming someone else. If Baldwin practiced the most basic of gun safety the woman would be alive. Saying that he doesn’t have the ultimate responsibility is irresponsible on its face.
A movie set is the exception.
The armourer is responsible.
Visualize a class of kindergarten kids.... That's what the actors are. The armourer is the teacher, and responsible for all of them. You cannot expect actors to know the first thing about gun safety. Just as you can't expect kindergartners to cross a busy highway by themselves.
Rockinbar is 100 % correct.
You can bet the farm that the Santa Fe County Sheriff's homicide detectives are much better informed than we are ... or the rumor mills of Hollywood. They'll be investigating this incident for quite a while as they'll have to talk to multiple witnesses, multiple times.
L.W.
There are no exceptions to gun safety. I can’t believe I am reading that some feel there are exceptions on this site.
It's not designed to be a GUN, it's designed to go bang/pop harmlessly...it's the "pop" gun rifle we had as little kids, cock the lever action and it goes "pop". No live ammo should have been on set, I highly doubt Baldwin stopped at the local gun store and picked up 100 rounds of ammo to bring to the set at 6:30am.
It is the ultimate responsibility of the person with the gun in their hand. This incident is proof of that. There is plenty of blame to go around, but the actor doesn’t get a free pass by blaming someone else. If Baldwin practiced the most basic of gun safety the woman would be alive. Saying that he doesn’t have the ultimate responsibility is irresponsible on its face.
A movie set is the exception.
The armourer is responsible.
Visualize a class of kindergarten kids.... That's what the actors are. The armourer is the teacher, and responsible for all of them. You cannot expect actors to know the first thing about gun safety. Just as you can't expect kindergartners to cross a busy highway by themselves.
Rockinbar is 100 % correct.
You can bet the farm that the Santa Fe County Sheriff's homicide detectives are much better informed than we are ... or the rumor mills of Hollywood. They'll be investigating this incident for quite a while as they'll have to talk to multiple witnesses, multiple times.
L.W.
There are no exceptions to gun safety. I can’t believe I am reading that some feel there are exceptions on this site.
It's not designed to be a GUN, it's designed to go bang/pop harmlessly...it's the "pop" gun rifle we had as little kids, cock the lever action and it goes "pop". No live ammo should have been on set, I highly doubt Baldwin stopped at the local gun store and picked up 100 rounds of ammo to bring to the set at 6:30am.
It is not designed to be a gun? Somehow Baldwin tragically shot and killed someone with it.
Just remember, No one was ever charged or arrested in the Brandon Lee shooting. Maybe the facts in this case will turn out to be different than with Lee's death but I wouldn't hold my breath.
There was a scene where Baldwin was to shoot directly at the camera. They were going to use a cold gun to set it up. In order to set it up the cinematographer and the director wanted to see what the shot would look like and they were having him play it with the cold gun while they got everything set. Then, they would have transitioned to a hot gun and they would have been watching from monitors away from the camera.
It is the ultimate responsibility of the person with the gun in their hand. This incident is proof of that. There is plenty of blame to go around, but the actor doesn’t get a free pass by blaming someone else. If Baldwin practiced the most basic of gun safety the woman would be alive. Saying that he doesn’t have the ultimate responsibility is irresponsible on its face.
A movie set is the exception.
The armourer is responsible.
Visualize a class of kindergarten kids.... That's what the actors are. The armourer is the teacher, and responsible for all of them. You cannot expect actors to know the first thing about gun safety. Just as you can't expect kindergartners to cross a busy highway by themselves.
Rockinbar is 100 % correct.
You can bet the farm that the Santa Fe County Sheriff's homicide detectives are much better informed than we are ... or the rumor mills of Hollywood. They'll be investigating this incident for quite a while as they'll have to talk to multiple witnesses, multiple times.
L.W.
There are no exceptions to gun safety. I can’t believe I am reading that some feel there are exceptions on this site.
It's not designed to be a GUN, it's designed to go bang/pop harmlessly...it's the "pop" gun rifle we had as little kids, cock the lever action and it goes "pop". No live ammo should have been on set, I highly doubt Baldwin stopped at the local gun store and picked up 100 rounds of ammo to bring to the set at 6:30am.
It is not designed to be a gun? Somehow Baldwin tragically shot and killed someone with it.
Rockibbar has already explained this in detail, you just refuse to accept the industry manner of PROP guns on the filming set.
There appear to be only 3 instances of this happening in recent history going back to 1984, and 1 of those was self inflicted. Showing the armouer did his/her job in countless films/TV, this incident somehow becomes the actor's fault while you ignore that live ammo was on the set. According to you all of those countless films/TV shows depicting shooting, the actor was well versed in firearm safety, gun handling, and down range scenarios.
This would of course include such brainiacs as Pam Anderson, Ronda Rousey, Kevin Costner, Ben Affleck, and the list goes on and on.
There was a scene where Baldwin was to shoot directly at the camera. They were going to use a cold gun to set it up. In order to set it up the cinematographer and the director wanted to see what the shot would look like and they were having him play it with the cold gun while they got everything set. Then, they would have transitioned to a hot gun and they would have been watching from monitors away from the camera.
It is the ultimate responsibility of the person with the gun in their hand. This incident is proof of that. There is plenty of blame to go around, but the actor doesn’t get a free pass by blaming someone else. If Baldwin practiced the most basic of gun safety the woman would be alive. Saying that he doesn’t have the ultimate responsibility is irresponsible on its face.
A movie set is the exception.
The armourer is responsible.
Visualize a class of kindergarten kids.... That's what the actors are. The armourer is the teacher, and responsible for all of them. You cannot expect actors to know the first thing about gun safety. Just as you can't expect kindergartners to cross a busy highway by themselves.
Rockinbar is 100 % correct.
You can bet the farm that the Santa Fe County Sheriff's homicide detectives are much better informed than we are ... or the rumor mills of Hollywood. They'll be investigating this incident for quite a while as they'll have to talk to multiple witnesses, multiple times.
L.W.
There are no exceptions to gun safety. I can’t believe I am reading that some feel there are exceptions on this site.
It's not designed to be a GUN, it's designed to go bang/pop harmlessly...it's the "pop" gun rifle we had as little kids, cock the lever action and it goes "pop". No live ammo should have been on set, I highly doubt Baldwin stopped at the local gun store and picked up 100 rounds of ammo to bring to the set at 6:30am.
It is not designed to be a gun? Somehow Baldwin tragically shot and killed someone with it.
Rockibbar has already explained this in detail, you just refuse to accept the industry manner of PROP guns on the filming set.
There appear to be only 3 instances of this happening in recent history going back to 1984, and 1 of those was self inflicted. Showing the armouer did his/her job in countless films/TV, this incident somehow becomes the actor's fault while you ignore that live ammo was on the set. According to you all of those countless films/TV shows depicting shooting, the actor was well versed in firearm safety, gun handling, and down range scenarios.
This would of course include such brainiacs as Pam Anderson, Ronda Rousey, Kevin Costner, Ben Affleck, and the list goes on and on.
You are correct. He did explain it and I refuse to accept any exception to gun safety and others in the industry agree with me. I posted a link to a current movie armourer that has the same opinion about gun safety and Baldwin’s lack there of.
There are no exceptions to gun safety. I can’t believe I am reading that some feel there are exceptions on this site.
There should be no exceptions. You are right.
But sadly, this gets illustrated many times a year, when someone gets shot.
Not only on a movie set, but particularly by hunters and target shooters throughout the country.
Nothing is 100% safe. Even riding your bike down the street...
While this incident is much more highly publicized than other gun accidents, it's no more tragic, and you can always find "someone" to blame in any of them.
There are no exceptions to gun safety. I can’t believe I am reading that some feel there are exceptions on this site.
There should be no exceptions. You are right.
But sadly, this gets illustrated many times a year, when someone gets shot.
Not only on a movie set, but particularly by hunters and target shooters throughout the country.
Nothing is 100% safe. Even riding your bike down the street...
While this incident is much more highly publicized than other gun accidents, it's no more tragic, and you can always find "someone" to blame in any of them.
I failed to add when they finish investigating there should be at least two people charged with negligent homicide in my opinion. Baldwin and the armourer as it appears so far.
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is who was watching over the guns on the cart before it was picked up and handed to Baldwin? One more breakdown in safety protocol. At the very least it opens the possibility that someone could have messed with it. Not saying someone did.
I do know that actors take classes learning how to handle firearms. That have to act competent when shooting. Why wouldn’t they know anything about safety and firearm handling. It’s quite apparent that Baldwin is a cluck but he is a veteran actor and should be expected to know quite a lot about firearms. At least that’s the way I see it. Again I can’t say what exactly happened on the set except he shot an innocent bystander and wounded another. That’s a fact.
I gave a class to everyone while working as an armourer on movie sets. So, they "may" have been given something similar.
I coached actors on how to handle firearms as well.
Alec Baldwin messed up once before on a movie set I was on with him. (Not as an armourer, BTW)
He played Col. Travis in "13 Days the Glory"... He had a saber and took it out and was dicking around with it, waving it around and such. It was just a cheap sword, and the blade came out of the handle, and when the blade came falling down, it cut the living schidt out of his hand. They had to take him Del Rio to the ER to get his hand sewn back up...
It's not without possibility that Baldwin was dicking around this time as well. I doubt you'll hear the full truth from a movie crew, or Santa Fe law enforcement for that matter.
If somebody on the crew came out about that in detail, they'd be banned from Hollywood.. Forever.
That was a very interesting and succinct interview with John Schneider and he's correct. The homicide detectives are going to be looking long and hard as to why a live round was in that gun Baldwin used.
Good for Schneider also addressing the "gun control" issue. Made a lot of sense.
"Moments before the fatal shooting, Assistant Director Dave Halls grabbed a prop gun off the cart and brought it inside to Baldwin, unaware it was loaded with live rounds, detective wrote in the application."
Okay, what's "loaded", six rounds ? What are "live rounds" ? Live blanks, live fixed conventional (real) ammo ?
As someone posted earlier on this thread, it is almost always a series of events/errors that end in tragedy. This has to be the case here as well, but with a serious question on where or how the grievous round entered the set. Someone brought this round into play either intentionally or haphazardly. Either way that person is at the very least complicit in this death.
Next error is by the armorer that missed or did not ensure that a live round was not in the weapon. Or did not have enough knowledge or training to understand the identity of a live round or the appropriate insert for the purpose.
Third would be the armorer not controlling the weapon up to hand off to the actor. The Assistant Director should not be a middle man in this exchange. I would think the armorer would open the firearm, pull out the round and show the actor exactly what was going into the firearm and give last minute instruction before transferring possession.
Fourth would be the actor pointing a firearm with anything in the chamber at anyone and especially for a camera alignment when it was unnecessary for anything to be in the chamber. The L.A Times article states that the camera operator and director and assistant watch the actual filming from a safe room when a blank may be necessary for the take.
Fifth would be the director allowing a firearm with anything in the chamber to be used for a camera alignment. No need and an unnecessary risk.
Sixth would be the actor not taking firearm handling seriously. Pulling the trigger would be completely unnecessary for camera alignment. Especially with people manning the camera at the time. This supposedly veteran actor did not have his head in his job.
Who is responsible? All of the above. All are deficient in professionalism and seriousness of performance. None should ever work in this capacity again as a signal to everyone in the industry to take your job seriously.
"Moments before the fatal shooting, Assistant Director Dave Halls grabbed a prop gun off the cart and brought it inside to Baldwin, unaware it was loaded with live rounds, detective wrote in the application."
Okay, what's "loaded", six rounds ? What are "live rounds" ? Live blanks, live fixed conventional (real) ammo ?
So the armourer and assistant director handled the gun before idiot Baldwin, bring them up on charges...."here's and empty cold gun, you're ready to go buddy"
That was a very interesting and succinct interview with John Schneider and he's correct. The homicide detectives are going to be looking long and hard as to why a live round was in that gun Baldwin used.
Good for Schneider also addressing the "gun control" issue. Made a lot of sense.
"Moments before the fatal shooting, Assistant Director Dave Halls grabbed a prop gun off the cart and brought it inside to Baldwin, unaware it was loaded with live rounds, detective wrote in the application."
Okay, what's "loaded", six rounds ? What are "live rounds" ? Live blanks, live fixed conventional (real) ammo ?
So the armourer and assistant director handled the gun before idiot Baldwin, bring them up on charges...."here's and empty cold gun, you're ready to go buddy"
Love it. Schneider put Baldwin directly on the hot seat, exactly where he belongs. And Schneider is absolutely correct in calling it negligence, not an accident. Calling it an accident is bulshit and building a wormhole for Baldwin to slither through.
Anybody else noticed all of Baldwin's comments are "tragic accident", "We're all grieving", even to the husband of the woman who was killed. Instead of taking responsibility, he's cleverly sowing the seed of "accident". Baldwin is a worm pos.
I understand that basic safety precautions would have prevented this no matter if there was a live round or wedged projectile involved. Has anyone addressed that several disgruntled employees up and left their jobs there that day? Maybe one of them decided on a little sabotage? Not realizing someone would likely get killed or worse yet, not caring?
That poor girl who was the armourer wasn’t that confident in her ability it seems. I can’t imagine what she’s going through now. Baldwin is going to destroy her.
This was just in a Fox News article online ......."Moments before the fatal shooting, Assistant Director Dave Halls grabbed a prop gun off the cart and brought it inside to Baldwin, unaware that it was loaded with live rounds, a detective wrote in the application.
"Cold gun," Halls yelled." Halls was the assistant director. So many different stories. Seems like no one knows what happened and they are trying to point fingers in all directions, except AB who failed to exercise basic gun safety.
That poor girl who was the armourer wasn’t that confident in her ability it seems. I can’t imagine what she’s going through now. Baldwin is going to destroy her.
The girl who was armourer pursued and was given that job, even though she had competency doubts.
She is culpable.
Baldwin is the producer of the movie. Producers hire the crew. Baldwin hired her.
Baldwin is culpable as well.
I keep hearing the asst director was the one who handed Baldwin the loaded gun, and said it was a cold gun. That's not his job. It's the armourer's job.
Lots of negligence to go around in this perfect storm.
This was just in a Fox News article online ......."Moments before the fatal shooting, Assistant Director Dave Halls grabbed a prop gun off the cart and brought it inside to Baldwin, unaware that it was loaded with live rounds, a detective wrote in the application.
"Cold gun," Halls yelled." Halls was the assistant director. So many different stories. Seems like no one knows what happened and they are trying to point fingers in all directions, except AB who failed to exercise basic gun safety.
But if you're told "cold gun", then told to point at the camera for a close up shot of a bad guy getting shot....what would you do ?
I don't know, there's blame to spread around to be honest...but there are professionals heads on the block first, in my honest opinion.
And I HATE the guy, especially after hearing his screaming phone rant against his young daughter.
I mentioned this earlier, both actors took their roles seriously and trained hard for their roles...but on set, I'll guarantee the armourer was in charge of all firearms and usage.
Okay, since there’s 15 pages or so here, I’m not going back to re-read stuff. Did I, or am I mistaken, read that someone, maybe the armorer or a actor or crew member, had been using set guns for target shooting? I would think that any investigation of how a live projectile carrying round introduced to a movie set and prop would start right here. 7mm
Most still look like toys on camera. HD made some things tuff to deal with, like details.
Originally Posted by rockinbbar
Originally Posted by ruffcutt
That poor girl who was the armourer wasn’t that confident in her ability it seems. I can’t imagine what she’s going through now. Baldwin is going to destroy her.
The girl who was armourer pursued and was given that job, even though she had competency doubts.
She is culpable.
Baldwin is the producer of the movie. Producers hire the crew. Baldwin hired her.
Baldwin is culpable as well.
I keep hearing the asst director was the one who handed Baldwin the loaded gun, and said it was a cold gun. That's not his job. It's the armourer's job.
Lots of negligence to go around in this perfect storm.
One big [bleep] show. Worked onstage and a fair amount of film my professional life and saw some huge productions go off with out a hitch. Here, one has a small low buget project and incompetence rules.
Many movies and TV shows have moved to CGI, and eliminated the bullet/blank scenario altogether...Kate Winslet was just in a movie playing a cop, and all CGI....just missing the gun recoil.
Many movies and TV shows have moved to CGI, and eliminated the bullet/blank scenario altogether...Kate Winslet was just in a movie playing a cop, and all CGI....just missing the gun recoil.
That will be the future of filming.
Maybe. For those with the budget to do it.
Low budget pictures like the one where this happened always skimp on everything they can.
Many movies and TV shows have moved to CGI, and eliminated the bullet/blank scenario altogether...Kate Winslet was just in a movie playing a cop, and all CGI....just missing the gun recoil.
That will be the future of filming.
Maybe. For those with the budget to do it.
Low budget pictures like the one where this happened always skimp on everything they can.
True, but their budget just went waaaay up...someone is going to pay for this mess.
Baldwin will walk. No charges will be filed as he was too far down the chain from loading, inspecting, verifying, etc. Besides, he has plenty of money. Sad situation for all.
I understand that basic safety precautions would have prevented this no matter if there was a live round or wedged projectile involved. Has anyone addressed that several disgruntled employees up and left their jobs there that day? Maybe one of them decided on a little sabotage? Not realizing someone would likely get killed or worse yet, not caring?
From what I've seen, the "armorer" was in waaaaay over her head, and people were actually target shooting (live ammo) with a firearm used in the movie earlier. It was the third "oops" with that particular firearm, so the crew couldn't even get HOT and COLD right in regards to blanks.
Basically, it's a string of incompetence and negligence that is actually pretty amazing in it's scope.
This was just in a Fox News article online ......."Moments before the fatal shooting, Assistant Director Dave Halls grabbed a prop gun off the cart and brought it inside to Baldwin, unaware that it was loaded with live rounds, a detective wrote in the application.
"Cold gun," Halls yelled." Halls was the assistant director. So many different stories. Seems like no one knows what happened and they are trying to point fingers in all directions, except AB who failed to exercise basic gun safety.
You might want to go back and the whole thread. What you have posted from Fox has already been posted.
Of course, being a professional actor and expert lying dimocommie, Alec would probably pass in f lying colors.
Sounds to me like some chucklehead was doing recreational shooting off to the side, with a prop gun, then placed it back on the armorer's cart. It was never cleared or checked. Not to mention there was no positive control of weapons or ammo on the set.
Layers of incompetence, dereliction, and bad decisions.
Of course, being a professional actor and expert lying dimocommie, Alec would probably pass in f lying colors.
Sounds to me like some chucklehead was doing recreational shooting off to the side, with a prop gun, then placed it back on the armorer's cart. It was never cleared or checked. Not to mention there was no positive control of weapons or ammo on the set.
Layers of incompetence, dereliction, and bad decisions.
John Schneider explained the actual prop guns are unable to be fired with live ammo, but yiu may ne right about real guns they sometimes evidently use.
Be nice to know exactly how the script had him shooting at the camera.
Of course, being a professional actor and expert lying dimocommie, Alec would probably pass in f lying colors.
Sounds to me like some chucklehead was doing recreational shooting off to the side, with a prop gun, then placed it back on the armorer's cart. It was never cleared or checked. Not to mention there was no positive control of weapons or ammo on the set.
Layers of incompetence, dereliction, and bad decisions.
John Schneider explained the actual prop guns are unable to be fired with live ammo, but yiu may ne right about real guns they sometimes evidently use.
Be nice to know exactly how the script had him shooting at the camera.
I read that the guns were not from a hollywood prop outfit, but rather, were sourced locally, and are in fact legit firearms.
Something tells me that this will somehow be spun into a call, demand for more Common Sense firearms legislation.
Something like , “See, even with all of the extraordinary firearms safety precautions use in the filming of movies, people still get shot and die, yes it’s true firearms do indeed kill,
That poor girl who was the armourer wasn’t that confident in her ability it seems. I can’t imagine what she’s going through now. Baldwin is going to destroy her.
The girl who was armourer pursued and was given that job, even though she had competency doubts.
She is culpable.
Baldwin is the producer of the movie. Producers hire the crew. Baldwin hired her.
Baldwin is culpable as well.
I keep hearing the asst director was the one who handed Baldwin the loaded gun, and said it was a cold gun. That's not his job. It's the armourer's job.
Lots of negligence to go around in this perfect storm.
Of course, being a professional actor and expert lying dimocommie, Alec would probably pass in f lying colors.
Sounds to me like some chucklehead was doing recreational shooting off to the side, with a prop gun, then placed it back on the armorer's cart. It was never cleared or checked. Not to mention there was no positive control of weapons or ammo on the set.
Layers of incompetence, dereliction, and bad decisions.
So I was correct in thinking somebody was using these guns for target shooting/ recreation. I can’t imagine taking guns off of a set like that, let alone returning them without clearing them of live ammo. Much as I think of Baldwin, other than hiring scabs as crew and possibly talking an incompetent girl into taking on a responsibility she wasn’t ready for, there isn’t much to hang him on. I guess we’ll see how this turns out, but I’d really have a talk with whoever was fiddling with the set guns. Criminal negligence at the very least. 7mm
I'm no expert on prop guns. However, I did get approached once years ago to "rent" a real gun to a community theater production. I said "Hell NO!" and walked away. It got me thinking about prop guns. I started looking into it just to get an idea of what was involved.
Somebody who knows more about this is free to correct me. I didn't think live rounds could be fired from a prop gun. Prop guns are modified to only shoot specially prepared blanks. The barrels are modified. Live rounds are nowhere near the set. Furthermore, somebody properly versed in the prop stays in charge of it. It's their job to see it gets properly and safely used.
So the DP gets hit with a live round. From there to the conclusion of the event, everything that comes out of that prop is now purposeful, willful. How many shots were fired? How many people? Why was Alec trying to kill them?
This really stinks.
few years ago i was at a firearms auction in scottsdale, where they were auctioning off a bunch of guns used in the cowboy westerns. there were four or five rugers there, beatuful on the outside, sewers for barrels. I bought the owner of the movies companies ruger, it had a nice barrel. no question it shoots regular 45colt ammo
There are enough precedents for safety for every commercial activity from sky diving to tourists shooting machine guns. Written protocols should have been in place and signed off on by all principles. Any deviation from established best practices will be deemed gross negligence. Criminal and civil laws differ from state to state. The actors would not be the ones responsible for enforcing best practices but lawyers will always go for the deep pockets and if Baldwin is in fact the producer that would put him deep kimchee. Criminal negligence resulting in a death is possible.
I’m actually a little surprised here, as I thought that even most of us movie buffs realized that many of the guns used in movies and TV are actually working firearms. I know there are plenty of prop guns and such but I figured at least half were working guns. From the sound of things, this was Ol’ Alex’s baby from the start, and he was cutting a lot of corners. If that’s the truth, I’d say his producing and acting days may be numbered. At least we can hope. 7mm
Now it comes out that that particular revolver, and probably some others, were definitely being shot offset. Gun was used offset Too bad there wasn’t a few of us “gun nuts” present when this was going on. A gun person knows to always clear and check a gun after shooting. I’m thinking maybe movie people, not so much. 7mm
But if you're told "cold gun", then told to point at the camera for a close up shot of a bad guy getting shot....what would you do ?
I don't know, there's blame to spread around to be honest...but there are professionals heads on the block first, in my honest opinion.
And I HATE the guy, especially after hearing his screaming phone rant against his young daughter.
You check the gun to ensure it is indeed "cold."
Whenever anyone is handed or picks up a gun, weather they have been told that it is "cold" or "hot," their very first duty, is to point the gun in a safe direction and check the firearm. If they are incapable of performing that safety check, then they have no business holding any firearm. Just because an "armorer" may be involved, does not absolve them of this basic and primary responsibility. ANYONE, including big name Hollywood actors, have a duty and an obligation to ensure that they are not putting someone's life in danger by failing to perform this basic safety check. Failing to do so constitutes negligence and culpability. Hollywood actors do not get a pass on gun safety just because they are Hollywood actors.
Frankly, I am surprised this doesn't happen more often. Most of these actors are low-intelligence, Marxist tools that can barely think straight.
Alec Baldwin is a prime example, not to mention he's a fat bastard as well.
So far, although I've not read every post, no one has mentioned regarding Baldwin's negligence, is that he cocked the single action revolver, aimed at the two people, and then pulled the trigger. If he'd not cocked the revolver, the gun would not have fired and they'd all probably be filming again tomorrow
You can count on the possibility that S.F. Sheriff's homicide detectives will cite that as a possible charge of negligent endangerment" on Baldwin's part.
So far, although I've not read every post, no one has mentioned regarding Baldwin's negligence, is that he cocked the single action revolver, aimed at the two people, and then pulled the trigger. If he'd not cocked the revolver, the gun would not have fired and they'd all probably be filming again tomorrow
You can count on the possibility that S.F. Sheriff's homicide detectives will cite that as a possible charge of negligent endangerment" on Baldwin's part.
L.W.
Yep. At the very least. If this was indeed, a “practice run” Or Rehearsal as they have said, there should have been no need for Baldwin to cock the SAA Revolver, point it at the Director or Cinematographer, and pull the trigger. IMO, the “Set Armorer”, Who was obviously incompetent, was obviously responsible for the crew and gun safety. But Baldwin pulled the trigger, ultimately. He definitely should face some charge, at the very least, negligent endangerment, if not negligent homicide.
“Loaded or unloaded, a weapon never gets pointed at another human being,” Hollywood firearms consultant Bryan Carpenter of Dark Thirty Film Services told The Post.
Baldwin is a piece of crap liberal for sure, but his criminal culpability here is low if this happened on the set and he himself had not been dicking with the weapons. I'd bet not a single one of you would check the magazine to ensure every single round loaded was of the correct type if handed a weapon on the firing line by a range master and told it was good to go. No different on the set when an actor is handed a weapon and told it's good to go. The actor wouldn't know the difference if he did look.
Actors on a set depend on experts to give them what they need for the particular shoot. Most don't know the difference between a real gun or a prop gun, much less the different types of blank, dummy, or real ammo. Unless Baldwin was doing something he shouldn't have been doing outside the scope of shooting a scene, he won't be in criminal trouble.
I've seen some on here say this gun was used for target practice with live ammo prior to shooting the scene. I've not seen that from any news source however. If that does turn out to be true, I can certainly see someone being held liable, but somewhat doubt criminally. I mean this is Hollywood and I think there will be some level of protection. Civil court may take a completely different stance though and hold many, including Baldwin, financially responsible.
Obviously this was more than just a "tragic accident". There had to be several policy and procedures not followed by one or more people. Just don't expect them to be held accountable.
Baldwin is a piece of crap liberal for sure, but his criminal culpability here is low if this happened on the set and he himself had not been dicking with the weapons. I'd bet not a single one of you would check the magazine to ensure every single round loaded was of the correct type if handed a weapon on the firing line by a range master and told it was good to go. No different on the set when an actor is handed a weapon and told it's good to go. The actor wouldn't know the difference if he did look.
Actors on a set depend on experts to give them what they need for the particular shoot. Most don't know the difference between a real gun or a prop gun, much less the different types of blank, dummy, or real ammo. Unless Baldwin was doing something he shouldn't have been doing outside the scope of shooting a scene, he won't be in criminal trouble.
I've seen some on here say this gun was used for target practice with live ammo prior to shooting the scene. I've not seen that from any news source however. If that does turn out to be true, I can certainly see someone being held liable, but somewhat doubt criminally. I mean this is Hollywood and I think there will be some level of protection. Civil court may take a completely different stance though and hold many, including Baldwin, financially responsible.
Obviously this was more than just a "tragic accident". There had to be several policy and procedures not followed by one or more people. Just don't expect them to be held accountable.
Especially since it occurred in a Libertard Schitthole like Santa Fe, with a Liberal Prosecutor and Sheriff in charge of the Investigation.
Baldwin is a piece of crap liberal for sure, but his criminal culpability here is low if this happened on the set and he himself had not been dicking with the weapons. I'd bet not a single one of you would check the magazine to ensure every single round loaded was of the correct type if handed a weapon on the firing line by a range master and told it was good to go. No different on the set when an actor is handed a weapon and told it's good to go. The actor wouldn't know the difference if he did look.
Actors on a set depend on experts to give them what they need for the particular shoot. Most don't know the difference between a real gun or a prop gun, much less the different types of blank, dummy, or real ammo. Unless Baldwin was doing something he shouldn't have been doing outside the scope of shooting a scene, he won't be in criminal trouble.
I've seen some on here say this gun was used for target practice with live ammo prior to shooting the scene. I've not seen that from any news source however. If that does turn out to be true, I can certainly see someone being held liable, but somewhat doubt criminally. I mean this is Hollywood and I think there will be some level of protection. Civil court may take a completely different stance though and hold many, including Baldwin, financially responsible.
Obviously this was more than just a "tragic accident". There had to be several policy and procedures not followed by one or more people. Just don't expect them to be held accountable.
Especially since it occurred in a Libertard Schitthole like Santa Fe, with a Liberal Prosecutor and Sheriff in charge of the Investigation.
It's being shaped as a tragic accident with Baldwin being one of the prime victims. I think there are definitely one if not multiple people criminally negligent, but I have no faith in any system that would hold them accountable. After all, it was just a tragic accident and no one can prevent an accident. I'm sure we will soon hear Bladwin is suffering more than the people he shot.
“Loaded or unloaded, a weapon never gets pointed at another human being,” Hollywood firearms consultant Bryan Carpenter of Dark Thirty Film Services told The Post.
Years back while doing training while on a police department the head trainer gave a safety briefing first thing in the morning. One of the things he talked about was that there had been a study of firearms training incidents and they found that a very high percentage of them occurred after lunch in the early afternoon (over 85% by my recollection.)
I don't think the study assigned any hypothesis for why this spike was occurring (such as drinking during lunch or being less mentally aware on a full stomach) it only provided statistics.
When we returned from lunch he reiterated this during a recap of the safety briefing.
I found it interesting that this incident occurred at 1:50pm.
Sheriff Dept made a public statement this morning:
"Baldwin was sitting on a bench in the church, rehearsing drawing his pistol from holster & aiming at camera(as instructed by director). He did this multiple times, and then the "incident" happened hitting director in neck/chest area and then striking 2nd individual. They were not filming the scene or rehearsal at the time."
Obviously he pulled the trigger at some point, it wasn't an accidental discharge.
Sheriff Dept. will have a full press conference on Wednesday morning.
If someone told me to shoot at "the camera" I'd have to ask them to get away from the camera. One of the rules in "their own" playbook states "you never point a firearm at something you don't intend to shoot". He broke all firearm safety rules on that occasion.
Fox reporting normal (live??) rounds stored with presumed blanks (??), Gun used for recreation off-set. Gun stlll was loaded when Sheriff’s Office examined it.
I heard the live 911 call from a crew member, she said it was the assistant director that fugged up. They took a lunch break, and nobody re-checked the gun before handing it to Baldwin then yelling "cold gun"...the AD handed him the gun, not sure what the armorer was doing other than still stuffing a taco down her throat.
Regardless, according to actor John Schnieder any time an actor is going to use a real gun he is supposed to dry fire every chamber into the ground after being handed the gun to show everyone it is safe before using it.
Regardless, according to actor John Schnieder any time an actor is going to use a real gun he is supposed to dry fire every chamber into the ground after being handed the gun to show everyone it is safe before using it.
Alec didnt do that.
I wasn't defending Baldwin, just stating what has been publicized.
Regardless, according to actor John Schnieder any time an actor is going to use a real gun he is supposed to dry fire every chamber into the ground after being handed the gun to show everyone it is safe before using it.
Alec didnt do that.
Sure seems like a sound policy. Regardless of what the armourer or assistant producer did, the fact is Baldwin was the one who skipped examining or dry firing in a safe direction the firearm that was handed to him. It would have taken very little effort to do so.
Regardless, according to actor John Schnieder any time an actor is going to use a real gun he is supposed to dry fire every chamber into the ground after being handed the gun to show everyone it is safe before using it.
Alec didnt do that.
If I were going to have a gun pointed at me, I would want that done as well as check it myself before they yelled "ACTION"
Regardless, according to actor John Schnieder any time an actor is going to use a real gun he is supposed to dry fire every chamber into the ground after being handed the gun to show everyone it is safe before using it.
As has been pointed out hundreds of films involving gunplay have been produced w/ out anyone being shot. That this incident occurred is proof that established safety norms were not in place or were not enforced. If best practices are not enforced or are over ruled by management it is willful negligence. Big egos often dominate workplaces and undercut those tasked w/ safety.
Force on force training takes place regularly using real guns and simunitions type of projectiles w/ out injury because of rigorous protocols and enforcement. Once clear precedents are established incidents like this are the result of negligence and the liabilities start at the upper management/principles level. An actor is hired to act, not because he has the skills of the character he is portraying. Baldwin's failure and liability lie in his failure to run a safe set as the producer not in lack of gun knowledge. When you think you are the smartest guy in the room you discard the guidance of lesser beings. Behavior common to narcissists.
As has been pointed out hundreds of films involving gunplay have been produced w/ out anyone being shot. That this incident occurred is proof that established safety norms were not in place or were not enforced. If best practices are not enforced or are over ruled by management it is willful negligence. Big egos often dominate workplaces and undercut those tasked w/ safety.
Force on force training takes place regularly using real guns and simunitions type of projectiles w/ out injury because of rigorous protocols and enforcement. Once clear precedents are established incidents like this are the result of negligence and the liabilities start at the upper management/principles level. An actor is hired to act, not because he has the skills of the character he is portraying. Baldwin's failure and liability lie in his failure to run a safe set as the producer not in lack of gun knowledge. When you think you are the smartest guy in the room you discard the guidance of lesser beings. Behavior common to narcissists.
mike r
Or the armorer was snorting coke in trailer still, because she was definitely unqualified for the job.
As has been pointed out hundreds of films involving gunplay have been produced w/ out anyone being shot. That this incident occurred is proof that established safety norms were not in place or were not enforced. If best practices are not enforced or are over ruled by management it is willful negligence. Big egos often dominate workplaces and undercut those tasked w/ safety.
Force on force training takes place regularly using real guns and simunitions type of projectiles w/ out injury because of rigorous protocols and enforcement. Once clear precedents are established incidents like this are the result of negligence and the liabilities start at the upper management/principles level. An actor is hired to act, not because he has the skills of the character he is portraying. Baldwin's failure and liability lie in his failure to run a safe set as the producer not in lack of gun knowledge. When you think you are the smartest guy in the room you discard the guidance of lesser beings. Behavior common to narcissists.
mike r
Or the armorer was snorting coke in trailer still, because she was definitely unqualified for the job.
Even if that were the case the person in charge should not have proceeded and all weapons should have been secured until safety protocols could be enforced. If the armorer was unqualified the organization that hired her is responsible for harm resulting from that decision. The death and injury were a result of negligent management.
As has been pointed out hundreds of films involving gunplay have been produced w/ out anyone being shot. That this incident occurred is proof that established safety norms were not in place or were not enforced. If best practices are not enforced or are over ruled by management it is willful negligence. Big egos often dominate workplaces and undercut those tasked w/ safety.
Force on force training takes place regularly using real guns and simunitions type of projectiles w/ out injury because of rigorous protocols and enforcement. Once clear precedents are established incidents like this are the result of negligence and the liabilities start at the upper management/principles level. An actor is hired to act, not because he has the skills of the character he is portraying. Baldwin's failure and liability lie in his failure to run a safe set as the producer not in lack of gun knowledge. When you think you are the smartest guy in the room you discard the guidance of lesser beings. Behavior common to narcissists.
mike r
Or the armorer was snorting coke in trailer still, because she was definitely unqualified for the job.
Even if that were the case the person in charge should not have proceeded and all weapons should have been secured until safety protocols could be enforced. If the armorer was unqualified the organization that hired her is responsible for harm resulting from that decision. The death and injury were a result of negligent management.
mike r
True, but she'll be the first one on the list to go down...it was her job to secure all weapons, her only job.
Here is a link from Legal Insurrection with a good analysis of possible civil and perhaps criminal charges against Baldwin. There are a number of interesting comments, also.
As has been pointed out hundreds of films involving gunplay have been produced w/ out anyone being shot. That this incident occurred is proof that established safety norms were not in place or were not enforced. If best practices are not enforced or are over ruled by management it is willful negligence. Big egos often dominate workplaces and undercut those tasked w/ safety.
Force on force training takes place regularly using real guns and simunitions type of projectiles w/ out injury because of rigorous protocols and enforcement. Once clear precedents are established incidents like this are the result of negligence and the liabilities start at the upper management/principles level. An actor is hired to act, not because he has the skills of the character he is portraying. Baldwin's failure and liability lie in his failure to run a safe set as the producer not in lack of gun knowledge. When you think you are the smartest guy in the room you discard the guidance of lesser beings. Behavior common to narcissists.
mike r
Moreover, the reaction to someone's failure to follow established procedure/rules does NOT necessitate the passage of more rules. It just means those who broke the rules need to be punished. That is one of the biggest problems with our psyche today, everyone thinks we need more and more rules. We don't. As you stated, the fact that many hundreds of films have been created without accident shows the current rules work. Now, just punish those who transgressed and everyone move on.
As has been pointed out hundreds of films involving gunplay have been produced w/ out anyone being shot. That this incident occurred is proof that established safety norms were not in place or were not enforced. If best practices are not enforced or are over ruled by management it is willful negligence. Big egos often dominate workplaces and undercut those tasked w/ safety.
Force on force training takes place regularly using real guns and simunitions type of projectiles w/ out injury because of rigorous protocols and enforcement. Once clear precedents are established incidents like this are the result of negligence and the liabilities start at the upper management/principles level. An actor is hired to act, not because he has the skills of the character he is portraying. Baldwin's failure and liability lie in his failure to run a safe set as the producer not in lack of gun knowledge. When you think you are the smartest guy in the room you discard the guidance of lesser beings. Behavior common to narcissists.
mike r
Moreover, the reaction to someone's failure to follow established procedure/rules does NOT necessitate the passage of more rules. It just means those who broke the rules need to be punished. That is one of the biggest problems with our psyche today, everyone thinks we need more and more rules. We don't. As you stated, the fact that many hundreds of films have been created without accident shows the current rules work. Now, just punish those who transgressed and everyone move on.
Live Ammo on the Set. Apparently some of the crew were “target shooting” with the gun before the incident
“Now, according to a report from TheWrap, unnamed crew members have stated that the firearm handled by Gutierrez Reed, Halls and Baldwin was used earlier that same day to go "plinking," a hobby in which people shoot at beer cans with live ammunition for fun. “
Gun that killed Halyna Hutchins used for leisure shooting by crew the morning of the accident: report
Knee jerk on the left....conjecture on the right.....stuck in the middle. Lets wait for a report from the police....not a bunch of blathering armchair-expert reporters.
Knee jerk on the left....conjecture on the right.....stuck in the middle. Lets wait for a report from the police....not a bunch of blathering armchair-expert reporters.
Not sure I'd trust what police in the liberal nest of Santa Fe, NM, who cater to the whims of the movie business have to say.
That area of NM sucks up to the movie business like you wouldn't believe.
Live Ammo on the Set. Apparently some of the crew were “target shooting” with the gun before the incident
“Now, according to a report from TheWrap, unnamed crew members have stated that the firearm handled by Gutierrez Reed, Halls and Baldwin was used earlier that same day to go "plinking," a hobby in which people shoot at beer cans with live ammunition for fun. “
Gun that killed Halyna Hutchins used for leisure shooting by crew the morning of the accident: report
The gun that was fired in the Thursday death of 42-year-old cinematographer Halyna Hutchins on the set of Rust was reportedly used for live ammunition practice the morning of the shooting.
A set of crew members took the firearm and other guns from the New Mexico-based set to go "plinking," according to a report that cited "an individual with knowledge of the set."
"Plinking" is defined as the shooting of beer cans as a hobby.
The gun that was fired in the Thursday death of 42-year-old cinematographer Halyna Hutchins on the set of Rust was reportedly used for live ammunition practice the morning of the shooting.
A set of crew members took the firearm and other guns from the New Mexico-based set to go "plinking," according to a report that cited "an individual with knowledge of the set."
"Plinking" is defined as the shooting of beer cans as a hobby.
Was she supposed to get shot in the movie or was he playing a joke?
17 pages of info and dribble, and that's what you surmised ?...the incident is explained in detail, along with the parties involved.
The dribble being "prop gun misfires" ! Funny. Interesting Baldwins movie is described thusly." In ‘Rust,’ Alec Baldwin stars as Harland Rust, an outlaw who helps his estranged grandson get out of prison in Kansas after the 13-year-old is 'convicted of an accidental murder and sentenced to hang.'" We can hope they hang the bastard.
Was she supposed to get shot in the movie or was he playing a joke?
17 pages of info and dribble, and that's what you surmised ?...the incident is explained in detail, along with the parties involved.
The dribble being "prop gun misfires" ! Funny. Interesting Baldwins movie is described thusly." In ‘Rust,’ Alec Baldwin stars as Harland Rust, an outlaw who helps his estranged grandson get out of prison in Kansas after the 13-year-old is 'convicted of an accidental murder and sentenced to hang.'" We can hope they hang the bastard.
Knee jerk on the left....conjecture on the right.....stuck in the middle. Lets wait for a report from the police....not a bunch of blathering armchair-expert reporters.
Not sure I'd trust what police in the liberal nest of Santa Fe, NM, who cater to the whims of the movie business have to say.
That area of NM sucks up to the movie business like you wouldn't believe.
Probably brown dimocraps. Im figure what Baldwin makes in a month could probably buy half the states lar forces.
Knee jerk on the left....conjecture on the right.....stuck in the middle. Lets wait for a report from the police....not a bunch of blathering armchair-expert reporters.
Not sure I'd trust what police in the liberal nest of Santa Fe, NM, who cater to the whims of the movie business have to say.
That area of NM sucks up to the movie business like you wouldn't believe.
Probably brown dimocraps. Im figure what Baldwin makes in a month could probably buy half the states lar forces.
Wouldn't mind seeing a fork get stuck in that $60 million that turd supposedly has.
He needs to "help" the family of the person he murdered.
TP Collins - "... A misfire would be similar to a gun going off by itself or being dropped. ..."
No, a "misfire" happens when a trigger is pulled and the cartridge/shell does NOT go off.
A movie example of this is in Unforgiven. Near the end of the movie, Will Munny (Clint Eastwood) is in the saloon pointing his double barrel shotgun at Little Bill Daggett (Gene Hackman.) Munny has already fired one shot killing the saloon owner for decorating his saloon with Munny's friend, Ned (Morgan Freeman).
Munny says, "I've killed about everything that walks or crawls, and now I'm here to kill you, Little Bill, for what you done to my friend, Ned."
Little Bill tells all the other deputies there that Munny has only one barrel left and when he fires it, draw their pistols and kill Munny.
Munny aims at Little Bill's chest and pulls the trigger. CLICK!
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