They homed in on the Diamond Princess as being the best "lab experiment" yet, as it contains the fewest variables and everybody present was tested (unlike a general population). I've been thinking the same, ever since the cruise ship's stats have been available.

I think it’s going to kill millions, and there’s nothing we can do about it. I do hope I’m wrong of course. This thing is just getting a foothold.

I think it’s going to kill millions, and there’s nothing we can do about it. I do hope I’m wrong of course. This thing is just getting a foothold.

I think it's a lot worse than some of the doubters on here, as well as other places believe it to be. I think it has the POTENTIAL to do just what you say, and you are right in that so far, we have been able to do nothing to stop it. I also believe in taking every precaution one can, because it is always better to err on the side of caution.

If you truly believe that then believe your already f u kd

Maybe so, but anything that has the potential to kill you is nothing to take lightly.

When testing becomes more widely available and more infected carriers identified, it’s gonna dilute the mortality rate by a bunch.

Somewhere around 30 million got the typical flu this season with about 20,000 deaths in the USA alone. Where was the panic for this?

Hand wringers...... the sky is falling.

Dude, I would love nothing more than for you to be right and to call us all out when this all blows over. I’ll happily take my licks with humility.

Marty Makary, MD, MPH
While it’s well known that China and Iran have under-reported their COVID-19 statistics, Italy has been fully transparent. What we are learning is very concerning. The Lombardy province alone has experienced a surge in deaths due to the coronavirus— from 20 to 66 deaths in just one day. Analyzing data for the country as a whole, new diagnoses and deaths are doubling every few days. At this rate, Italy’s entire healthcare system will be overwhelmed by next week. Remember that two weeks ago, Italy had reported seven deaths.
Italy is a preview of what we may see in the U.S. very soon.
In a recent statement, the American Hospital Association projects strain on U.S. hospitals and is requesting congressional funding for new hospital construction and increased housing for patients. Doing the math, the U.S. currently has approximately 100,000 ICU beds with most hospitals already functioning at full or near-full capacity. According the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, 200,000 to as many as 2.9 million patients could present to U.S. hospitals with coronavirus. It’s time we increase the capacity of our medical centers before the infection ramps up.
Wuhan was overrun even with 19 field hospitals set up for the pandemic. Healthcare workers are at the highest risk of getting infected, not only representing a risk to our lives but a strain to our capacity to care for the tsunami of patients expected. U.S. hospitals and health professionals are on track to soon be overrun with patients, following the pattern of hospitals overseas who describe rationing respiratory support. Within weeks, U.S. hospitals may be significantly under-resourced and deal with major staffing shortages. Washington State is already scrambling to hire hundreds of travel nurses to help staff the influx of infected patients.
If the virus stays on its current trajectory, what happened in Wuhan will happen in the U.S. There is no strong scientific argument to suggest otherwise. While we all hope the virus demonstrates an unexpected heat-sensitivity or mutates to a less virulent form, the virus has, so far, followed a highly predictable course. That path was mapped out over 3 week ago by Marc Lipsitch, PhD, of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. Despite his dire warning that 40%-70% of the population could be infected, little was done to prepare for the pending crisis beyond standard handwashing and coughing instructions — a routine done every flu season. We need to mobilize quickly. In a national survey of 6,500 nurses in 48 states released last week, 63% of nurses report that they do not have access to N95 respirators in their units and many said they haven't been fitted or trained on how to properly use them. At the same time, first responders are underprepared and most have not been given the protective gear they need to treat infected patients.
Unfortunately, we live in an era of people spouting opinions on social media and cable news with no knowledge of a topic. TV pundits with no knowledge of virology, public health, or pandemic history are crowding out medical experts. Twitter, which promotes shouting over listening, is also loaded with comments ignorant the to the data. News networks should push aside legacy political commentators and put infectious diseases physicians on the air to warn the public about the pandemic. Now more than ever, physicians need to speak up about the pending health crisis in the U.S.
Arguments about the exact case fatality rate (CFR) have become a distraction from the real issue at hand — preparedness. While it’s a worthy exercise to determine if CFR estimates are including mild or asymptomatic patients in the denominator, it does not change our need to prepare or how we treat individual patients. Data from Italy suggests the CFR may be as high as 3%-4%. Adding an assumption that roughly half of people with mild or no symptoms were not tested, it may be closer to 1.5%-2%, just below that of the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic which killed 30 million people. The Diamond Princess ship was a controlled case study: 705 people tested positive for the virus, and seven died, suggesting a 1% CFR, albeit a slightly older skewed population. Regardless of where the true CFR is between 1% and 3.4% as the WHO is reporting, this is, at best, at least 10 times worse than a bad flu season and at worst, a pandemic that could claim millions of American lives.
Further hindering public health efforts, the concept of American exceptionalism has morphed into a societal arrogance that somehow the immune systems of Americans are stronger than those of the Chinese. And even though other countries have enacted very strict quarantine practices, including martial law and a shutdown of schools, there is a misleading perception that the U.S. would have less community transmission because of a better health care system and better hygiene. Another barrier has been the exaggerated notion that COVID-19 is only a danger to old people and that young people are entirely resilient.
Italy has now quarantined approximately 60 million people, and closed all nightclubs, gyms, and sporting events. I respect NIAID Director Anthony Fauci and admired his leadership as a clinical voice of reason amidst of our AIDS, SARS, and Ebola epidemics, but I’m concerned he has not yet introduced contingency plans for any of these major preventive measures. Instead, he is re-iterating a popular view that there is a lot we don’t know and that anything is possible. His only strong warning has been directed at to those considering cruise ship travel. Based on the current trajectory of the pandemic, all U.S. schools are at risk and may need to be closed, public gatherings like NCAA tournament games may need to be postponed, businesses should have their employees work from home whenever possible, and hospitals should staff up. I don’t like it, but that’s what the data are telling us to do.
At the current rate of spread, we can expect members of Congress, and even presidential candidates, to be infected with the virus within 6-8 weeks. In fact, President Xi Jinping of China has not been seen in public for weeks, and many of Iran’s leaders have the infection. Already, U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz and several House members have announced they will self-quarantine after shaking hands with an infected individual. Many more are likely infected but a we have been using a false pretense that confirmed cases are the only cases out there, despite that fact that testing has been extremely limited at best. It’s time we dispel the notion that this virus is somehow contained. It is at large.
The main talking points issued on this topic have been that we simply don’t know what this virus will do -- but COVID-19's course has already played out in other parts of the world. We just need to listen to data and put medical experts out in front of this instead of broadcasting opinions. We need to plan for the worst and hope for the best. Considering the implications for public health, and particularly for our older patients and those with underlying risk factors, we should act swiftly on the data rather than risk a delayed response we might regret.
Marty Makary, MD, MPH, is MedPage Today’s Editor-in-Chief as well as professor of health policy & management at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and professor of surgery at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine.
Click here to see all of MedPage Today’s COVID-19 coronavirus coverage.
Last Updated March 10, 2020

Li
Likewise.
I just don’t understand the panic when thousands of people are all ready dying from the flu.
Shouldn’t we be panicking because of it?

The difference here is I’m rooting for you! Haha! I’m not panicking, but I’m definitely preparing for worst case scenario.

Maybe Marty is right and not biased. But would be interesting to know if he is Republican or Democrat or neither.

I bet the people that own funeral homes are jacking off!!!

631 dead now in Italy from the virus.

Out of just over 10,000 infected. That's a 6% mortality rate. Today they had the single highest death total of any nation for a single day. They have not yet peaked.

I changed my mind.
We’re all going to die.

Eventually from something.

You can make book on that.

DF

Marc Serota (one of our former allergy fellows at Childrens Mercy) posted this on facebook. I think it is the clearest statement regarding Coronavirus I have seen per one of our Current Asthma/allergy Doctors:

From an MD immunologist:

I don't post a lot on facebook but I would like to give my perspective and context on the coronavirus outbreak. I hope I can be a more reputable source of perspective as a physician who specializes and is board certified in immunology (as well as pediatrics, allergy and dermatology).

1. Coronaviruses are a family of viruses. "coronavirus" is not unique to this particular strain. Everyone reading this has likely had another different coronavirus infection. This particular strain has been named COVID-19.

2. Every upper respiratory virus has the potential to be lethal. Patients unfortunately die from many upper respiratory viral infections every year - most prominently the influenza virus. 30,000 people died from the influenza virus in 2019. The media didn't report each one. They have reported all 11 coronavirus deaths. Not telling us about the people lost but rather keeping a death "toll".

Let me repeat that:
-Coronavirus: 11 deaths (US in 2020), 3300 deaths (China in 2020).
-Influenza: 30,000 deaths (US in 2019).

*Influenza pandemic of 1918: 675,000! (US), 20-50 MILLION!! (worldwide) <---These people I think would have been in favor of receiving their annual flu vaccine.

This is not meant to minimize any of these deaths but rather to give context and put some facts to the hysteria.

3. If you're healthy, there is no need to walk around wearing a mask. In addition to looking silly and most of the time wearing/taking them off wrong - which would actually make you more prone to acquiring an infection, they don't prevent you from getting sick. If you're actually sick stay away from people and then, sure, wear a mask so you aren't spreading respiratory droplets every time you cough/sneeze. In medicine we don't wear the masks you're buying and we wear other protective equipment - not just a silly looking mask you found on Amazon. When you see doctor's walking around the world wearing a mask then you should too. Until then, stop.

4. The symptoms are that of the flu. As doctors we don't test or know about most people with mild or moderate flu symptoms. That means most people will probably get it and just think they had the flu. That means you're only going to hear about the cases that get serious - not all the minor ones which will be the vast majority of cases.

5. When it is said that people who are older or have other medical conditions are most likely to die - that is equally true for EVERY upper respiratory virus. There is nothing unique about that to this particular virus. It does mean that the only cases we tend to know about are the severe ones. Once a case is severe it then makes sense to test the patient to find out what virus in particular they have. That means you can easily overestimate how severe or lethal the virus is because the only cases you end up knowing about are the serious ones.

In summary 30,000 people died from the flu last year. Another 30,000 died in car accidents.

I remember: H1N1 (2009), MERS (2012), Ebola (2014), Coronavirus (2020).

Take it from me: The poor resident who stood at the door of the ER to triage people in 2009's swine flu (H1N1) hysteria. The over reaction is exponentially worse than the actual problem and in 2020 the over reactions I'm seeing are remarkable. In cold and flu season you'll probably get sick once or twice for about a week each. You might even get this particular coronavirus and most of you won't even know it. I've seen people raiding supermarkets, major meetings and sporting events getting cancelled and fear/racism towards Asian people. These reactions are totally unnecessary and panic based. Just do what you've always done during cold/flu season. Stay away from other people when you're sick, wash your hands and keep them away from your face, and only go to the ER if you feel your symptoms are more severe than a bad cold/flu (shortness of breath, high fever, etc.). And also realize you can't live on earth and not get viral illnesses from time to time. It's a part of nature.

Please don't ask for antibiotics (those treat bacteria - not viruses). Thats like asking for a fire extinguisher when you're drowning. It can be a life saving device - but the wrong one for the problem at hand. Some doctor's don't want to fight about it when patients insist on antibiotics so they just prescribe them - but it doesn't mean its actually helping you and in some cases they can be harmful (resistance, infections, allergic reactions just to name a few). If you're one who asks for antibiotics every time you're sick, again, take it from me: ask for a flu shot each year and a doctor's note to stay home from work when you're sick instead. You will be much better off.

The government is very proud that testing will be available to every American. Remember, we don't test for any respiratory virus other than the influenza virus routinely. The reason is thats the only virus that has a treatment (pill) you can take to shorten the duration of severity of the illness. I suspect if we start testing everyone with cold symptoms for coronavirus we're going to find lots of it. It's not going to change the recommendations to stay home and rest. And its not going to predict the small percentage of people who may develop more severe symptoms. Essentially whether someone has coronavirus 19 or some other cold/flu virus isn't going to matter to your doctor. What it will do is slam urgent cares, ER's and hospitals with every patient who has a cold so they can be tested. It is much more sensible to reserve testing for patients requiring hospitalization or more advanced treatments. Even that wouldn't change their management but would be more to confirm the diagnosis and to not waste time looking for other causes of the patients symptoms.

In conclusion, yes there is a novel virus that our immune systems haven't seen yet so to get immune to it you will have to get infected - at least until a vaccine is developed to bypass the getting sick part and just jumping straight to immune. Most people's immune systems will do that effectively and be fine. A small percentage of unfortunate patients (primarily elderly, immune compromised etc.) will not be able to do that effectively and will need more advanced care. This is true of the cold/flu viruses we deal with every year. Follow normal cold/flu precautions and seek medical care if you feel your symptoms are severe. No need to get hysterical.

These outbreaks can be instructive for overall knowledge of public health. In particular showing your immune system the uniform of a potential invader (virus) so that if it ever sees a soldier wearing that uniform it will immediately attack and neutralize it without you ever getting sick. That is a wonderful thing and probably the single biggest achievement in medicine throughout human history. That is what vaccines are. The benefit to risk ratio of them are off the charts in favor of vaccines. If viruses like coronavirus scare you, then stay up to date on your vaccines and your immune system will be running the latest software.

If you still think you should be scared consider this: Doctors, nurses and other healthcare staff are going to hospitals every day. Crowded buildings with tons of sick people. They aren't walking around the halls of the hospitals wearing masks and they haven't stopped going to work. And they are all rolling their eyes at everyone else right now.

Marc Serota, MD

631 dead now in Italy from the virus.

I’m putting a $100 on it

This is what aggravates me so much............because our great and fearless leader said it was no worse than a common cold, there are those who swallow his every word as fact, and believe that the corona virus is a Democrat conspiracy.

One's political persuasion will not matter if you contact the virus. Politics doesn't have a damn thing to do with it, and could only make it worse if our politicians keep using it as a political pawn.

I don't know, as does anyone else what the future holds. This thing may run it's course, and end up being just another in a long line of things that we have been told are going to infect and kill off half the population of the world. Or, it may continue to spread and indeed end up being the 21st century's version of the Plague. We just don't know, but we don't need to be making it political. I do know that.

This is the Y2K of 2020. We all do remember Y2K dont we? It blew over on Jan. 1 2000 and never heard about it again.

Sorry if you'er aggravated, but the democrats and main stream media have demonstrated they will do and say anything to try to destroy Trumps reelection chances. The information I've read about the virus has not come from Trump. It's to late to think it hasn't already been made political. Throwing gas on the fire and causing the market to crash just to try to ruin the economy to sway an election is what aggravates me.

This is the Y2K of 2020. We all do remember Y2K dont we? It blew over on Jan. 1 2000 and never heard about it again.

This is the Y2K of 2020. We all do remember Y2K dont we? It blew over on Jan. 1 2000 and never heard about it again.

I’m putting a $100 on it

The death rate of individuals infected by coronavirus at the Kirkland, WA nursing home is close to 20% and the number will go higher. Somehow we need to remember these are people with families.

Based on the best time line analysis, the virus was introduced in the nursing home around 01 Feb. This means we had people visiting the nursing home and going out into the community for a month until visitation was halted. I do not think anyone has a grasp as to how far the virus has been spread. Most healthy folks under 50 will never know that they are infected, yet they are out there spreading the virus.

We now have ten more nursing homes in the Seattle area with outbreaks.

Reports, out of the CDC, are stating people with diabetes, high blood pressure, cardiovascular issues or respiratory issues need to exercise caution as they have a higher than normal risk if they are infected with coronavirus.

I am in california currently and i can tell you the enemy is us. Everywhere i go i see people cough into the elevator or on food and sneeze in the crowded room. The chinese dragging people into quarentine had it right cause ive seen runny nose bastards picking their nose in a pot luck. We got on the plane to 20 minutes of coughing by an elderly lady in the back. If the virus becomes widespread we are doomed cause people are gross......

I think it’s going to kill millions, and there’s nothing we can do about it. I do hope I’m wrong of course. This thing is just getting a foothold.

This. 40 times higher fatality rate than the flu? I really, really doubt that is remotely true.

Sorry to be a downer or doubter.

Sorry about the formatting as this is in twitter-format.
From a well respected friend and intensivist/A&E consultant
Jason Van Schoor
@jasonvanschoor
who is currently in northern Italy: 1/ ‘I feel the pressure to give you a quick personal update about what is happening in Italy, and also give some quick direct advice about what you should do.
2/ First, Lombardy is the most developed region in Italy and it has a extraordinary good healthcare, I have worked in Italy, UK and Aus and don’t make the mistake to think that what is happening is happening in a 3rd world country.
3/ The current situation is difficult to imagine and numbers do not explain things at all. Our hospitals are overwhelmed by Covid-19, they are running 200% capacity
4/ We’ve stopped all routine, all ORs have been converted to ITUs and they are now diverting or not treating all other emergencies like trauma or strokes. There are hundreds of pts with severe resp failure and many of them do not have access to anything above a reservoir mask.
5/ Patients above 65 or younger with comorbidities are not even assessed by ITU, I am not saying not tubed, I’m saying not assessed and no ITU staff attends when they arrest. Staff are working as much as they can but they are starting to get sick and are emotionally overwhelmed.
6/ My friends call me in tears because they see people dying in front of them and they con only offer some oxygen. Ortho and pathologists are being given a leaflet and sent to see patients on NIV. PLEASE STOP, READ THIS AGAIN AND THINK.
7/ We have seen the same pattern in different areas a week apart, and there is no reason that in a few weeks it won’t be the same everywhere, this is the pattern:
8/ 1)A few positive cases, first mild measures, people are told to avoid ED but still hang out in groups, everyone says not to panick 2)Some moderate resp failures and a few severe ones that need tube, but regular access to ED is significantly reduced so everything looks great
9/ 3)Tons of patients with moderate resp failure, that overtime deteriorate to saturate ICUs first, then NIVs, then CPAP hoods, then even O2. 4)Staff gets sick so it gets difficult to cover for shifts, mortality spikes also from all other causes that can’t be treated properly.
10/ Everything about how to treat them is online but the only things that will make a difference are: do not be afraid of massively strict measures to keep people safe,
11/ if governments won’t do this at least keep your family safe, your loved ones with history of cancer or diabetes or any transplant will not be tubed if they need it even if they are young. By safe I mean YOU do not attend them and YOU decide who does and YOU teach them how to.
12/ Another typical attitude is read and listen to people saying things like this and think “that’s bad dude” and then go out for dinner because you think you’ll be safe.
have seen it, you won’t be if you don’t take it seriously. I really hope it won’t be as bad as here but prepare.

I would venture to guess that a lot of people have already had it and gotten over it months ago.

I would venture to guess that a lot of people have already had it and gotten over it months ago.

I would venture to guess that a lot of people have already had it and gotten over it months ago.

I am also in the medical field, and share the sentiment. It is not a common cold, it much worse. Yes, the flu has killed more, but in a longer time-span and in general there is some residual immunity against flu (whether from vaccines or previous exposition). That means that in general the herd immunity is better, with COVID19 everyone is susceptible.
In those affected it is an acute overhwelming pneumonia, and ICUs are saturated, that is what is going to collapse the system.

As a physician i am embarrassed by my colleagues. Simple fact is the cruise ships are our 100% testing site. Only place everyone got tested. Death rate is lower than the flu. Older average age on the cruise ships than the general population. The stats are being twisted.

Dude, I would love nothing more than for you to be right and to call us all out when this all blows over. I’ll happily take my licks with humility.

While talking to a friend in New Jersey last night he asked if there were a bunch of “abnormal bronchitis” cases diagnosed that people went to the dr 2-3 times for and nothing really touched it. I told him there was a lot of that from late Oct-Jan. A family member of his said in their opinion those abnormal cases were undiagnosed CV that people got over.

Then where were the associated deaths of their aged or infirm family members?

Where was the sudden escalation of C-19 infections as those so afflicted went about their regular business and spread it where ever they traveled?

The huge, huge, majority of any who might suspect they had C-19 back in Dec or Jan had some form of the flu. We are all getting older, and the flu hits us harder each year.

That is why I ask, So you think you had C-19 three months ago? But did you get your flu shot this winter?

Then where were the associated deaths of their aged or infirm family members?

Where was the sudden escalation of C-19 infections as those so afflicted went about their regular business and spread it where ever they traveled?

The huge, huge, majority of any who might suspect they had C-19 back in Dec or Jan had some form of the flu. We are all getting older, and the flu hits us harder each year.

That is why I ask, So you think you had C-19 three months ago? But did you get your flu shot this winter?

I would venture to guess that a lot of people have already had it and gotten over it months ago.

I think you could be correct, JG. About the last of Dec through mid -Jan I was knocked out of quail, duck and sandhill hunting.

I got a strange bronchitis that started in my chest with chills and sweats that would soak the pillow and sherts but not any memorable body aches or sore throat to speak of. I had a lot of dry coughing fits and had to take Vics Nightime to cut coughing and allow sleep. I took 50mg prednisone in the AM every other day a few times then every several days after I would feel I was getting well and then screw up and go hunting and ending up pushing myself running down quail or breating cold air. The next day I would be sick and in bed a couple of days. It took about a month and I almost started ABs when I finally got to thinking I'd recover enough to someday maybe be able to breath cool air again and walk more than 75 yards without having to sit down a while.

I've been a lot sicker twice from the flu many years ago and even with annual or biannual bouts with bronchitis crud that have always seemed to involve sore throats and sinusitis that moved down into my chest.

One day I stretched it getting about 500 yards down the river and shot a bull sprig and another duck of some kind or the other. I had to climb up and down those steep banks a few times to catch them floating down river. Dayom. Never thought I'd make it back to the truck after sucking the cool air down.

The stuff I had this time was strange.

Needless to say I'll never eat boiled bat again.

My wife suffered the same symptoms, with very minor feaver, and our Doc told her the same exact thing yesterday at her semi annual checkup. There were a slew of bronchitis cases here as well, and it was very wide spread.

Sorry to burst your panic bubble. Very, very few percent of people with Covid 19 expire.
I think I had it too. Who are you to diagnose whether someone had the flu or Covid 19? You are not. Carry on

Same here, mild fever, very minor body ache and tiredness but negative flu tests every time they went to the dr. Nearly everyone I am in contact with had it at some point and couldn’t shake it for awhile. Diagnosed as abnormal bronchitis for most.

The point would be: We have a slew of professional epidemiologists who point to mid or late January as initial infection date in US.

All growth rate charts and statistics support that.

So who are you to know more than the renowned epidemiologists and statisticians advising Pres Trump?

My wife suffered the same symptoms, with very minor feaver, and our Doc told her the same exact thing yesterday at her semi annual checkup. There were a slew of bronchitis cases here as well, and it was very wide spread.

Doubt you guys had it back in January. It's fairly well contagious - the stats would've gone ballistic much earlier.

I had something like that around Christmas. I don't think it was CV. There is no trail of dead old people in my wake. I break out a couple days before I get a cold. I did that. Figured well, here we go. About 3 mornings later I woke up with a sore throat but instead of it being up in the tonsils, it was down below / behind my collar bone, maybe the next set of lymph nodes deeper. I've never had that happen before. The next morning that had backed off but I had a sort of bronchitis. Best way I can describe that is if you're a runner, it's like you've laid off for a few months, gone for a good run, and this is like how you feel the next day after breathing more deeply longer than you've done for a while. Sort of strained. That's my normal-ish pattern going into an ass-beater of a cold so I prepared to get mauled. Instead of waking up in snot-faucet mode as expected, I teetered on the edge for a couple days, then it backed down. I've had that funny breathing feeling to a lesser degree about 2-3 days a week since. Not sure exactly what the hell it was all about, but my GF has not gotten coronavirus, her elderly mom didn't get it from me (we spent 4 days playing board games across a 3x3 table) nor did her brother. Nobody at work has it .. we wind up around a table for a couple hours a day 1-2 times a week. If ths was coronavirus, it would be very obvious that I was "typhoid mary" but it isn't spreading so it isn't the same thing.

My only concern is whether or not this current thing increases my risk when the real one comes through.

Tom

Now I'm not saying the sky is falling, but stating that concern over covid-19 is "much ado about nothing" is the reverse side of that particular idiot coin. Be cautious for the next month or so. Be especially cautious if you're over 70 or have any pre-existing health issues.

As a physician i am embarrassed by my colleagues. Simple fact is the cruise ships are our 100% testing site. Only place everyone got tested. Death rate is lower than the flu. Older average age on the cruise ships than the general population. The stats are being twisted.

"Acute Bronchitis" was wide spread and rampant across lots of TX, Louisiana, Oklahoma, and New Mexico back then. Doubt you'd know that being halfway around the world from here.

If half a million in the US die from this, I will be very very surprised
Kid out

Then where were the associated deaths of their aged or infirm family members?

I meant Covid-19, I doubt you guys had that then. I don't doubt "acute bronchitis" but I doubt it was brought on by Covid-19 back then. There's always lurgies out there - can't assume you had something unless you know for sure.

I've had a dry non-productive cough for about 5-6 months now but otherwise feel fine, could be my hypertension medication catching up with me.

So who are you to know more than the renowned epidemiologists and statisticians advising Pres Trump?

Just a simple fact that 21 million cell phone accounts were cancelled. I think the China lies.

Needless to say I'll never eat boiled bat again.

I meant Covid-19, I doubt you guys had that then. I don't doubt "acute bronchitis" but I doubt it was brought on by Covid-19 back then. There's always lurgies out there - can't assume you had something unless you know for sure.

I've had a dry non-productive cough for about 5-6 months now but otherwise feel fine, could be my hypertension medication catching up with me.

What do you think they did with the 21 million bodies?

Scott said, ^^^^^


" As of today, current covid-19 mortality rate worldwide is 6%. The estimate for influenza mortality rate in the USA is .1%. USA covid-19 mortality rate is currently 3%."
-------------------------------------------



<** 2. World Wide Death from Covid is 4292 .** ( ADD 4292 is NOT 6% of world population.) [/b]


3 The CDC says that AT LEAST 20,000 have died from FLU.

.....WHO officials were using the term "mortality rate" when they should have been using case fatality rate.

Only way to know if you had The Covid-19 and got over it without being identified, tested and confirmed while infected is to have an Anti-Body test done. Ain't no one gonna waste time and money on that right now.

I had a low grade fever, packed chest and dry unproductive cough for almost two weeks in January. Took another two weeks before I felt somewhat normal again.

Both my young 20 something daughters were home for the holidays before that and got sick between Christmas and New Years.

We all had our flu shots in the Fall.

I would suspect if that had been the Covid-19 then we would have seen a much higher surge in this county which is currently at 45 confirmed with two deaths six weeks ago.

"...even WHO officials were using the term "mortality rate" when they should have been using case fatality rate..."

Yes, true dat

"The seven funeral homes in the city of Wuhan were reported to be burning bodies 24 hours a day seven days a week in late January. Hubei Province has used 40 mobile cremators . . . since Feb. 16."

Full article here:
China May Have Massively Underreported Coronavirus Deaths

I wonder if we may have had a mild case of flu mitigated by having had the flu shot?

That would be about 750 bodies per hour per cremator. sounds pretty crowded, to me,
just my .02.....

lisinopril? Did it to me and switched

"The seven funeral homes in the city of Wuhan were reported to be burning bodies 24 hours a day seven days a week in late January. Hubei Province has used 40 mobile cremators . . . since Feb. 16."

Full article here:
China May Have Massively Underreported Coronavirus Deaths

The number of cellphone users decreased from 1.600957 billion to 1.579927 billion, a drop of 21.03 million. The number of landline users decreased from 190.83 million to 189.99 million, a drop of 840,000.

In this case, I'd also consider the source. The Epoch Times is heavily invested in making the CCP look as bad as possible. It's a Falun Gong mouthpiece.

In this case, for instance, there's the assumption that new number = new cellphone. But no mention of the fact that the basic fee per month is only 50RMB and that a new number just means a different SIM card. Literally been there, done that. A gigantic pain in the ass as a foreigner, but still cheap and once you have the SIM card, easy to have multiple numbers with a single cellphone.


If you go to the actual Epoch Times article, it states that:



The entire population of the country is only 1.4 billion. So it's a verifiable fact that there's a lot of multiple numbers per person going on. Dropping an unnecessary number and saving 50RMB a month when you're lowly paid and not working? Kind of a no-brainer, right?

On the other hand, 40 portable crematoria in Hubei working 24 hours a day since February 16 would be needed if the body count was in the hundreds of thousands.

One would think those would be visible on someone's satellite pics, maybe even ones available to the public?

Just a thought, I'm not going looking, not that smart with the googlefu.

Geno

"Acute Bronchitis" was wide spread and rampant across lots of TX, Louisiana, Oklahoma, and New Mexico back then. Doubt you'd know that being halfway around the world from here.

Yet you had no issue with radically rewriting the medical statute definition of 'terminally ill'.

which renown medical professionals did you confer with?

Lisinopril gave you a dry non-productive cough? Just curious and I know it can affect everyone different but I've been taking 20mg/day for over 10 years with no issues.

Wonder what the murder spike will be after 2 weeks of being cooped up....

Lisinopril gave you a dry non-productive cough? Just curious and I know it can affect everyone different but I've been taking 20mg/day for over 10 years with no issues.

Where are the sick people?

[quote=JTman]

Lisinopril gave you a dry non-productive cough? Just curious and I know it can affect everyone different but I've been taking 20mg/day for over 10 years with no issues.[/quote

That is a very common, very well known side effect of lisinopril. I took lisinopril for less than 2 weeks and had a really bad case of the coughs and it lingered for almost a month after I quit taking it.

Almost all the of ones who have died have been in "long term care facilities" (that means places they weren't going to get out of alive.

Hospitals and doctors are busy with hypochondriacs that really wish they had this bug...but don't.

Don't you think the media would be stumbling over themselves to show people dying in the streets?

Where are the sick people?

Every person on this board with an IQ above 60 knew exactly what my meaning was with the statement you refer to.

Unfortunately Lt, they are coming.

Hospitals and doctors are busy with hypochondriacs that really wish they had this bug...but don't.

Don't you think the media would be stumbling over themselves to show people dying in the streets?

[quote=JTman]

Lisinopril gave you a dry non-productive cough? Just curious and I know it can affect everyone different but I've been taking 20mg/day for over 10 years with no issues.

Unfortunately Lt, they are coming.

Look at NYC as a valid depiction of the future. And New York is no where even close to the top of the bell curve yet. As Cuomo cries " What are we going to do with 400 ventilators? We need 30,000".

I find it odd too, as I've been taking it for 6 yrs now, 20mg a day, no problemo.

You keep moving the goalposts.

You posted that the death rate would be exponential. It isn't.

You posted that those admitted to the hospital would increase exponentially. It didn't.

You posted that the cold virus was more deadly than the flu. It isn't.

Hospitalization rate is linear.

Death rate is linear.

Fatality rate below 1%.

Everything you've posted has been wrong.

You keep moving the goalposts..

Everything you've posted has been wrong.

Fuba Rski MD 1
Idaho Shooter 0

although they did their damndest to scare the schit out of America with lies and propaganda, they themselves knew it was less of a danger than the common flu.

Claim my numbers are wrong, post your own calculations and numbers.

That is a very common, very well known side effect of lisinopril. I took lisinopril for less than 2 weeks and had a really bad case of the coughs and it lingered for almost a month after I quit taking it.

One word: Italy.

Thank you, I'd never heard that before.

That is a very common, very well known side effect of lisinopril. I took lisinopril for less than 2 weeks and had a really bad case of the coughs and it lingered for almost a month after I quit taking it.
[/quote
I also have a dry cough from the medication, it is one of the side effects.

Italy?

Every person on this board with an IQ above 60 knew exactly what my meaning was...

There are none so blind, as those that will not see.

For those of you with an open mind, take two minutes to look at this page:

Worldometer Coronavirus USA stats

Current deaths in the USA - 695
Current recovered - 370
Cases without outcome - about 52,300. Just under 1200 of those are serious cases

Take a look at all of the graphs. Total cases, total deaths, new cases per day, new deaths per day. All those graphs are on linear scales - but the values being graphed are not rising linearly.

The number of “cases” is without a doubt higher than 54,000. As that number goes up, the fatality rate goes down. There’s 54,000 positive test results.

Italy's levelled off, and on the way down.

Right, and only those showing serious symptoms are being tested. These same experts said that the majority of those infected will show little, or no, symptoms.

Out of just over 10,000 infected. That's a 6% mortality rate. Today they had the single highest death total of any nation for a single day. They have not yet peaked.

One word: Italy.

Italy went into "lockdown" 2 1/2 weeks ago, could that explain why it has started to level off in the last few days?

The number of “cases” is without a doubt higher than 54,000. As that number goes up, the fatality rate goes down. There’s 54,000 positive test results.

You keep moving the goalposts.not at all

You posted that the death rate would be exponential. It isn't. wrong,it is

You posted that those admitted to the hospital would increase exponentially. It didn't. wrong, it has

You posted that the cold virus was more deadly than the flu. It isn't.wrong. the flu does not kill two for every one whom recovers, not even in the early days of the season

Hospitalization rate is linear.You repeat yourself, but again,wrong, it is growing exponentially

Death rate is linear.wrong, it is growing exponentially

Fatality rate below 1%.far too early to tell, hope you are right

Everything you've posted has been wrong.Everything I have posted over the last two weeks is on course but, unfortunately, accelerated. I hope as badly as you for that to change SOON.

Your drama queen statement was irrelevant in
terms of what really is relevant =Medical
fraternity standards and opinions concerning C19.


Several of your posts have been centred around the
mere potential effects of C19 toward the chronic health dramas in your life and your family tree. which
ain't the concern for the vast majority.

IF you are so worried, just isolate yourself
cause Nobody is going to put a gun to your head
to force you to go to work.

Yes, the liberals are trying to shift the focus from actual facts, like the incredibly small number of deaths, to an increase in "cases", attributable only to the increase in testing.

More bullshit liberal talking points.

Your wish has been granted.

Everything you posted is not so.

"Those predictions were/are for a course of 12 to 16 weeks beginning Mar 10."

Bullshit. You used the crap January date as the first infection date, and ran crap predictions from that.

You can't fake the death rate, and the fact that it is linear and not exponential, so you try and shift the focus to tests.

And the increase in confirmed tests is nothing more than a reflection of increased tests.

More bullshit.

BSometer is a crap lib site. No surprise it's your go to place.

They took down their statistics and graphs when they showed that the serious infections were 2% of the confirmed tests, and the graphs showed no exponential growth.

So even with the "confirmed tests" fraud, the serious cases were less than 3%.

You’re rabidly delusional.

Noticed, when you can't form a rational reply, you just throw a stupid response out.

Which means, all you do is throw stupid responses out.

You libs tried the "exponential" thing.

Til it didn't happen.

Then, you liberals tried the miscalculated fatality rate.

Til it didn't happen.

Then, you liberals tried the ITTTTTALLLLLLYYYYY! thing.

Until it didn't work.

Only thing left, is the "confirmed cases" bullshit.

And that won't work.

Plus, it also kills the fatality rate bullshit.

Bein a lib must be like a terminal Covid patient.

Facts is chokin the life outta ya.

Can't breathe, and ya know there's no cure.

The liberal Covid hysteria is on life support.

And sanity has its hand on the plug.

Any last words?

The middle of Jan is widely accepted as introduction of patient zero in USA.
Feb 29 shows the first death. A delay of six weeks.
Mar 4, 11 deaths
Mar 8, 22 deaths
Mar 12, 41 deaths
Mar 16, 86 deaths
Mar 20, 256 deaths
Mar 24, 775 deaths

If that is not exponential growth, someone needs to dig up my seventh grade math teacher and put a bullet right between his fugging eyeballs. Because it sure looks like what he taught me was exponential growth. And again, the doubling rate of four days has turned into a tripling rate.

No they have not taken down their data. It is all still there.

And you are also completely wrong as to my predictions being based on anything in Jan. I absolutely used 1000 cases as a baseline and predicted doubling from that point.

The middle of Jan is widely accepted as introduction of patient zero in USA.
Feb 29 shows the first death. A delay of six weeks.
Mar 4, 11 deaths
Mar 8, 22 deaths
Mar 12, 41 deaths
Mar 16, 86 deaths
Mar 20, 256 deaths
Mar 24, 775 deaths

If that is not exponential growth, someone needs to dig up my seventh grade math teacher and put a bullet right between his fugging eyeballs. Because it sure looks like what he taught me was exponential growth. And again, the doubling rate of four days has turned into a tripling rate.

No they have not taken down their data. It is all still there.

And you are also completely wrong as to my predictions being based on anything in Jan. I absolutely used 1000 cases as a baseline and predicted doubling from that point.

The middle of Jan is widely accepted as introduction of patient zero in USA.
Feb 29 shows the first death. A delay of six weeks.
Mar 4, 11 deaths
Mar 8, 22 deaths
Mar 12, 41 deaths
Mar 16, 86 deaths
Mar 20, 256 deaths
Mar 24, 775 deaths

If that is not exponential growth, someone needs to dig up my seventh grade math teacher and put a bullet right between his fugging eyeballs. Because it sure looks like what he taught me was exponential growth. And again, the doubling rate of four days has turned into a tripling rate.

Last words?

You kissing a dude with COVID-19 sounds about right. 😎

Yes, the liberals are trying to shift the focus from actual facts, like the incredibly small number of deaths, to an increase in "cases", attributable only to the increase in testing.

More bullshit liberal talking points.

I take 40mg. Occasional cough but not bad.

I am pretty sure that India didn't just lock down 1.3 BILLION people for weeks, because the love them some Joe Biden.

It's not exponential growth within a population of 350 million.

It's not exponential growth, at all.

It's just the small sample size at the beginning of the population of a set.

Even your numbers show a linear increase, though you skipped days to try and bullshit the fire.

It's a moronic non-sequitur and appeal to authority argument, but to keep it simple:

Hysteria in India doesn't support hysteria anywhere else.

If you don’t know what a word means, long click on it and you’ll have an option to look it up.

Why do the libtards use the same "hockey stick" graph for CO-19 that they do for "global warming"? Maybe they're using the same bought and paid for "researchers" for both lines of bullscheize?
Jerry

Why do the libtards use the same "hockey stick" graph for CO-19 that they do for "global warming"? Maybe they're using the same bought and paid for "researchers" for both lines of bullscheize?
Jerry

There’s no appeal to authority—hyperbolic equivocation.

Why do the libtards use the same "hockey stick" graph for CO-19 that they do for "global warming"? Maybe they're using the same bought and paid for "researchers" for both lines of bullscheize?
Jerry

You libs is knowed ta get testy, when bitchslapped by facts.

Facts...

You don’t deal in facts.

It's not exponential growth within a population of 350 million.

It's not exponential growth, at all.

It's just the small sample size at the beginning of the population of a set.

Even your numbers show a linear increase, though you skipped days to try and bullshit the fire.

A projection based on the optimistic hope of a four day doubling rate for deaths.

Your fellow liberal posited that because an authority, India, took an action, that the action must be valid.

Feel like you're knockin on heaven's door?

Must be pathetic ta be optimistic about deaths doublin.

But, whatever it takes to accomplish the liberal agenda.

No doubt your "projections" will be as accurate as liberal "projections" bout global warmin.

The new coronavirus may already have infected far more people in the UK than scientists had previously estimated — perhaps as much as half the population — according to modelling by researchers at the University of Oxford.
If the results are confirmed, they imply that fewer than one in a thousand of those infected with Covid-19 become ill enough to need hospital treatment, said Sunetra Gupta, professor of theoretical epidemiology, who led the study. The vast majority develop very mild symptoms or none at all.
“We need immediately to begin large-scale serological surveys — antibody testing — to assess what stage of the epidemic we are in now,” she said.

Must be pathetic ta be optimistic about deaths doublin.

But, whatever it takes to accomplish the liberal agenda.

No doubt your "projections" will be as accurate as liberal "projections" bout global warmin.

Must be pathetic ta be optimistic about deaths doublin.

But, whatever it takes to accomplish the liberal agenda.

No doubt your "projections" will be as accurate as liberal "projections" bout global warmin.

A doubling rate of four days is a hell of a lot more optimistic than the observed tripling rate of four days.

Get back to me on the ninth of Apr and we will discuss how far my projections are BELOW actual data.

Again, Lord, I hope I am far, far wrong. Nothing could make me happier.

Fact: highly contagious
Fact: longer active life cycle on surfaces WGAS
Fact: carriers aren’t feeling sick while exposing others So?
Fact: 14 day period of feeling effects of disease to recovery...Longer if lungs are compromised and placed in ICU Just like the flu, except it doesn't kill anywhere near as many
Fact: will kill people who are healthy Just like the flu, except it doesn't kill as many
Fact: number of infected is increasing How can it not increase?
Fact: most people who catch it are convalescing at home and not being identified as COVID patient.It's a very weak cold virus, for the vast majority of people
Fact: no vaccine Not until one is developed, like any other cold virus in the last 50 years
Fact: you, nor I, have any idea how well we’re gonna do if we become infected. Got it, kicked its ass
Fact: if you were to catch it and die...It would be a shame...You’re an awesome villain and fun to poke at.True

Fact: IMO you’re an idiot...But, be safe. You post what you want, I'll post what I want, and the fire can decide

😎

Fewer that 1 per 1,000 who are infected become ill enough to need hospitalization.

https://www.ft.com/content/5ff6469a-6dd8-11ea-89df-41bea055720b?shareType=nongift

Oh, by the way commies, that is an OXFORD study just released.

What that means for you idiot commies here, is that the majority are “silent attack”. That means people get infected, and never get sick and spread it while they all are now building immunity from the antibodies NOW IN THEIR BODIES.

More than half of America is most likely carrying antibodies, and the above newly released FACTS from that OXFORD study is why they haven’t wanted to test for antibodies, because it would prove we are on the downside now and end the fear mongering, and stop the commie’s destruction of the economy dead in its tracks.

Print that FACT you commie SOB’s and wrap it, and shove it where the sun doesn’t shine you commie SOB’s.

I really don't understand your gibberish- are you saying that the pool of infected people isn't growing exponentially?

This is what you do with a thoughtful and well reasoned response... Idaho_Shooter is generous almost to a fault.

Fewer that 1 per 1,000 who are infected become ill enough to need hospitalization.

https://www.ft.com/content/5ff6469a-6dd8-11ea-89df-41bea055720b?shareType=nongift

Oh, by the way commies, that is an OXFORD study just released.

What that means for you idiot commies here, is that the majority are “silent attack”. That means people get infected, and never get sick and spread it while they all are now building immunity from the antibodies NOW IN THEIR BODIES.

More than half of America is most likely carrying antibodies, and the above newly released FACTS from that OXFORD study is why they haven’t wanted to test for antibodies, because it would prove we are on the downside now and end the fear mongering, and stop the commie’s destruction of the economy dead in its tracks.

Print that FACT you commie SOB’s and wrap it, and shove it where the sun doesn’t shine you commie SOB’s.

So next time, let *him* be on top.

Gotta be his turn.

Elkslayer91,

The study outlines a simulation. It’s a predictive model (in draft form). You’d know this if you cited original sources.

Draft-COVID-19-Model (13). PDF

I have heard Zero had a good time there.

You’re deranged if you are using Italy’s numbers and data . That’s been proven to be an apples and oranges comparison . (Italy to the US )

The pool of infected people is not growing exponentially.

The pool of people being tested is growing exponentially, due to the tests being available.

The two concepts have no logical connection, but the former is being used for propaganda purposes.

Elkslayer91,

The study outlines a simulation. It’s a predictive model (in draft form). You’d know this if you cited original sources.

Draft-COVID-19-Model (13). PDF

Where is the tripling rate of every four days? Source? Thank you

[ the number of deaths from the virus is increasing exponentially and that has nothing to do with the tests unless the tests kill people.

See there you go, displaying your lack of intelligence which demands you use false accusations and name calling for lack of reasoning.

Did you miss the extensive use of modifiers in your quote?

MAY already have infected.
PERHAPS as much as half
According to MODELING
They IMPLY
IF the results are confirmed
We need to BEGIN surveys

That piece of rubbish is not worth the electrons it took to transmit it. Admittedly so by the author himself through the use of language.

Didn't think you'da been able ta hear, what with your ears bein held in some guy's hands.

OH Tatoo!

Look it’s full of those hockey stick graphs you loath.

The cruise ship proves the above article correct, no matter how you attempt to attack it.

LOW infection rate, and LOW death rate....FACTS Kill commie's lies.

See the quoted part of post 14703071 above. The data came from Worldometer. Check the graphs provided by other thoughtful participants.

Damn, this thread is growing far faster than I can type, and I got to get up and go to work in six hours.

Elkplayer, I can entertain him easily enough with his favorite meme.

In just a few more days we will all see what will happen. How many of the US deaths had severe illnesses or health complications already? It doesn’t make it OK , but it puts in it perspective.

Entertaining yourself is more like it, because you'll never beat me in a debate, because you're incapable of ever posting any facts to win......typical commie playbook, straight from Saul (commie) Alinsky, "Rules for Radicals".

The number of deaths was never increasing exponentially, and is leveling off.

The number of deaths was never increasing exponentially, and is leveling off.

That's why the liberal focus has shifted to number of cases, instead of number of deaths.

We will NEVER know how many Americans had this virus. Even the CDC says most people will have mild symptoms and recover at home. I don’t know about anyone else , but widespread antibody tests won’t happen imo. Without the data, any numbers based on cases aren’t valid.

Has there been a death rate graph posted showing healthy individuals/to exclude individuals with preexisting conditions?

We will NEVER know how many Americans had this virus. Even the CDC says most people will have mild symptoms and recover at home. I don’t know about anyone else , but widespread antibody tests won’t happen imo. Without the data, any numbers based on cases aren’t valid.

Yes, it does. Just so we all remember that many, or most even, with comorbidities might have well lived into their eighties or (fewer) possibly nineties had they not caught this terrible virus. Some maybe robbed of a couple months, many more robbed of many years or possibly decades.

Yes it is nature's way. But we should be taking any measures possible to mitigate the loss of life.

A route that I am comfortable is being charted as well as possible by our esteemed President.

You do understand that whatever the current state of the disease, its current state is the result of the unique nature of intervention in each locale.

Interesting. The MSM tonight, ABC I believe we watch, said they are working on a test that is designed to work with antibodies, and will be cheap and quick. Will be fun to see who gets tested and when. Maybe it will be "essential" folks first?

Geno

No data . What specifically are you basing the tripling of deaths every few days on Italy?

Actually, respectfully, no we should not be taking any measure possible. In this country every day ,loss of life is weighed against factors. For example, it is a given a certain amount of people will get cancer and die every year just from pumping gasoline into their vehicles (the list very long) . Risks are part of everyday life. Many Americans aren’t comfortable literally shutting down the economy because it MIGHT save a life. Crazy stuff 😄

I hope we see random sampling of the population for antibodies sometime in the next six months to a year. If for no other reason than to predict herd immunity and possibility of a second wave of the virus hitting us again next year.

As many have stated here, the one data point which will be uncontested will be the body count.

Actually, respectfully, no we should not be taking any measure possible. In this country every day ,loss of life is weighed against factors. For example, it is a given a certain amount of people will get cancer and die every year just from pumping gasoline into their vehicles (the list very long) . Risks are part of everyday life. Many Americans aren’t comfortable literally shutting down the economy because it MIGHT save a life. Crazy stuff 😄

Yeah, I think there was this study back in the 70's that provided limited data that a 55 MPH speed limit, when enforced and obeyed saved lives.


But dang were people PO'd about it.

So it's back to 70+ on the fwy in most places.

Angel of Death be damned,


Geno

Might save a life? That is one thing.
Might save 100,000 lives? That is something else.
Might save 1,000,000 lives? Now we are talking about a big deal.

A straight Body count alone isn’t good enough I don’t believe. It won’t be that black and white. What if someone had part of a lung removed because of cancer and got the virus? A cigarette smoker? On Oxygen already? Diabetic?

We will never know what the infection rate was on the cruise ship. The passengers were not tested for antibodies as they left the ship. We have no idea what portion of the crew and passengers were ever even exposed to the virus.

Quarantine, you know! Each passenger in his cabin, one or two to a cabin. As soon as infection was discovered.

Cue “Life in the Fastlane “ YouTube video 😂

Who knows. I suppose they could figure out a way for everyone to get tested. How much will that *cost* and wfsts the most economical way to administer the tests properly? Costs of the test itself aside, will the Walmart self checkout give us the test?

Lots of people live very productive lives for ten, twenty, thirty even forty years with one or more of the conditions you mention. Many of them fully employed for many of those years.

It is hard to draw a line to determine the disposable portion of society.

Actually, respectfully, no we should not be taking any measure possible. In this country every day ,loss of life is weighed against factors. For example, it is a given a certain amount of people will get cancer and die every year just from pumping gasoline into their vehicles (the list very long) . Risks are part of everyday life. Many Americans aren’t comfortable literally shutting down the economy because it MIGHT save a life. Crazy stuff 😄

A straight Body count alone isn’t good enough I don’t believe. It won’t be that black and white. What if someone had part of a lung removed because of cancer and got the virus? A cigarette smoker? On Oxygen already? Diabetic?

The above is a not true at all.

FACTS:
1 – The people got attacked early by “silent attack”, and reached immunity (antibodies), and by the time they were tested, their RNA was negative.

2 – It was proven the turd world wait staff employees feeding them were spreading the virus to all passengers when dropping their food off. Passengers could not spread from room to room. As they were exposed every feeding the ship acquired an 80% immunity on board.

3 – Same wait staff, so no passenger could be safe from being exposed.

4 – Identification of cases proved it was everywhere on the ship, but 80% didn’t get it. How? They’d already built immunity, because they were seropositive.

5 - LOW DEATH RATE, and LOW infection rate. FACTS MATTER.

I’m not indicating any of those scenarios make someone disposable. For the diabetes, I only mention that because I thought I read it was really h ell on diabetics.

The difference between personal choice and consequences and societal choice and consequences, is the latter is done by someone else. Really, in every case, it’s done by someone else, no matter your level of engagement. Regardless of the outcome, this chapter is likely to be one of the greatest events of our lives. More than what it is, but how we react to it, will set a vector for our society.

So, are the sixty-five percenters ready to revisit the study Elkslayer91 cited in the article he cited?

Your graphs showing exponential spikes are worthless, being they fail to show the people who:

1 - Become slightly sick, and recover at home.
2 - Infected and never have symptoms.

The above are not included in the graphs, therefore skewing the denominator number, which invalidates the whole model and invalidates your position.

I have looked and looked for data confirming antibody tests and been unable to find it. Can you provide a link?

Among 3700 passengers and crew, 712 tested positive for Covid 19. Of those 712, 9 died. That is a bit over 1% fatality rate.

Does not say anything about the other 3000 testing positive for antibodies to show they had ever been exposed. So I am interested in facts vs supposition.

Is this Sheldon ?

I have no idea who you are referencing, this Sheldon.

Big Bang theory

Big Bang theory

Sputnik, when your Russian gang allows you to replace your jean vest patch that says “Little Bitch” we’ll debate....Until then, go clean the piss stalls and stfu...You’re an absolute Tool...😎

The cruise ship thing is interesting

Your graphs showing exponential spikes are worthless, being they fail to show the people who:

1 - Become slightly sick, and recover at home.
2 - Infected and never have symptoms.

The above are not included in the graphs, therefore skewing the denominator number, which invalidates the whole model and invalidates your position.

When you place:

1 - Oxford study
2 - Italy numbers
3 - Japan facts

all side by side, it all equals "Silent Attack" is rampant, majority don't even have symptoms, and the numbers will eventually prove it.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-japan-hokkaido-infections-lockdown-photos-2020-3

😎

“Hokkaido, has become a hotbed for the novel coronavirus after authorities recorded 77 cases there alone.”

“But according to a Japanese scientist, the number of people infected on the island may have reached 940 last mont — more than 10 times the official figure.”

“As of Tuesday, three people have died on the island, according to an updated tracker by Japanese news agency Nippon.”

it all equals "Silent Attack" is rampant, majority don't even have symptoms, and the numbers will eventually prove it.

You make this shît up to impress your mom...

Debate happens when both can speak from an informed place of knowledge and facts. Positions may be different, but information must be verified with citations of known scholars or individuals with experience and or expertise that is acknowledged by peers in industry or profession.

Not some trash, blogfest whako-nutfücks you read and claim them to fame by your very soft mouth...

Again, you should stfu, go back to doing your chores, and stop interrupting when adults are talking...It’s way past your bedtime anyway.

Go to bed Son...😎

A ratio of one certified case out of every 10 is credible,” Angelo Borrelli, the head of the Civil Protection Agency, told La Repubblica newspaper, indicating he believed as many as 640,000 people could have been infected.

The new coronavirus may already have infected far more people in the UK than scientists had previously estimated — perhaps as much as half the population — according to modelling by researchers at the University of Oxford.

If the results are confirmed, they imply that fewer than one in a thousand of those infected with Covid-19 become ill enough to need hospital treatment, said Sunetra Gupta, professor of theoretical epidemiology, who led the study. The vast majority develop very mild symptoms or none at all.

“We need immediately to begin large-scale serological surveys — antibody testing — to assess what stage of the epidemic we are in now,” she said.

3(deaths) / 940(cases) = .003% (3 tenths of a percent death rate).

Like I said beevus butthead, you’re an idiot.

And they haven’t shut down the WHOLE DANG ECONOMY.

You’re so dang mind numbing stupid, you aren’t even capable of posting a link and discussing it, even though we know it would come out just babbling, you know, like all low I.Q. people…..babble/post video. It’s what commies do best.

3(deaths) / 940(cases) = .003% (3 tenths of a percent death rate).

Slow your roll there, commie slayer. If Geno sees this he will have an apoplectic fit. 0.003% is not 3 tenths of a percent. 0.3% is how you wish to express that.

49 deaths 😎

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2...ronavirus-death-toll-japan/#.XnsFH1plChA


You’re my Little Russian Doll....

Slow your roll there, commie slayer. If Geno sees this he will have an apoplectic fit. 0.003% is not 3 tenths of a percent. 0.3% is how you wish to express that.

You need to work from original source material. Plying interpretations of interpretations lacks all rigor and sophistication.

It’s hard to take you seriously, when it appears like you’re flailing.

You need to work from original source material. Plying interpretations of interpretations lacks all rigor and sophistication.

It’s hard to take you seriously, when it appears like you’re flailing.

It’s hard to take you seriously, when it appears like you’re flailing.

Dang, you got me up against the wall and I’m all shaking and crying...But, look behind you Sputz....Kingston has patiently been waiting for your explanation of your cited Oxford study.

Go ahead...Little shove to move your shaky knees closer....Step on up to the podium my masterbater and tell Kingston how smart you are.

Real obvious you’re ducking him...Figures. 😎

While this may be a contributing factor, and maybe even thought to be somewhat likely, there’s virtually no data quantifying it’s magnitude. You don’t just stop looking at the data you have, because you don’t have all the data you want.

Those aren't interpretations from interpretations. They are directly from the Japanese scientist providing the numbers. You're a LIAR, like all commies, and attempting to cover your commie buddies stupidity.

Nice try to cover for your commie friend.

You purposefully ignored the point I produced of the virus was shown to be "everywhere" on the ship, thus no way for anybody to not be exposed to it.

The common denominator was staff moving about the ship feeding(exposing all passengers), while passengers were in rooms (can't spread virus except to roommate).

Additionally, the majority of cruise passengers are retired with comorbidities, and thus subject to higher death rate, but it did not happen, did it?

Gee, I wonder why......silent attack built herd immunity is the reason. FACT.

1 - The quote from the Oxford study has been posted. Not my problem if you two amateurs are incapable of comprehending the facts in it, but I'm also not surprised.

2 - You telling me to step up and debate Kingston brings back school ground memories of the little bitch boys like you daring your enemy to fight your big brother, because you're too much of a puzzy to back your own mouth.

3 - Ducking? I'm actually kicking both of your azzes at the same time with facts. It takes a little time to respond with an actual intelligent post, something you obviously have never had the ability to produce, again, not surprised. But, you do have a mouth, and I'm sure it's been wrapped around more than one man's schlong.

This is your source. Are you getting paid by the word?

ElkSlayer91, maybe you should direct your vitriol towards the real leftist here...... hint... Kingston & Beav aren't it..... you claim to be the smartest guy in the room so prove it

[quote=ElkSlayer91]Sp that is your supposition.

You have no data to indicate serum tests were done to show all passengers carried antibodies? Did you just pull that proclamation out of your ass?

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-japan-hokkaido-infections-lockdown-photos-2020-3

😎

PS,,,,Loved your commie Bloomberg source as information in your ongoing “I debate myself in a mirror better than anyone alive” LMFAO 😂😎

Yeah, they're not leftists. Just every damn post is straight out of Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals tactics, but they're not leftists.

Go fish with that bait somewhere else pal.

I ain't biting.

And now here comes the pack of wolves this morning to protect each other, because they are all getting their azzes kicked by one guy with facts, and now the obfuscation is starting too. Gawd this is fun.

By your way of thinking, alone... You have single-handedly slayed every member of the Fire, on every thread you try to participate in.
It really is fun watching a sad little Russian troll-doll getting passed around like hookers kuht in a meth kitchen by every member who plays with you.

So, here we are...I’ve always said and called you out numerous times that you’re a Russian troll....Prove me wrong, Sputnik.
Post a picture that proves you’re actually here in the USA and not in a small back room- call tank In Moscow.
Dare yeah....Maybe a pic of a big bull you killed with a note that says anything you want it to say about Beaver.?

When society collapses you will be Beavs bitch....... hahahahahahhaa

Yup.....Russian Troll.

I’m gonna call you Oksana...

I like the name Oksana, because I fûcked the living shît outta this smoking hot Russian transplant for a year and half....Maybe your older sister, IDK.

You remind me of her in that, you run your yap, and spread wide at the same time.

Now, you go call Moscow and tell them you’re still not ready to be added to the RansomWare Team.

Laffin at you, but remembering your sister. 😎

When you place:

1 - Oxford study
2 - Italy numbers
3 - Japan facts

all side by side, it all equals "Silent Attack" is rampant, majority don't even have symptoms, and the numbers will eventually prove it.

This is the second time you ignore facts.

The whole wait staff were infected, but wait staff serving food to the passengers couldn't infect all passengers according to your "theory", EVEN THOUGH THERE WERE INFECTED PASSENGERS ALL-OVER-THE-SHIP.

You're a waste of time, by ignoring facts.

You lost the debate pal.

Math, logic, science, rifles, ammo, hunting, have all been shown not Sputz’s strong suit.

But, she Rocks it at identifying Commies.

Laffin

😎

Hey it was you who made the declaration of serum tests. Now you are backing out of that and just claiming "It must be so because I say it is so. I have no evidence."

Yet you ignore and obfuscate actual data even when charted out so that it could be understood by any 13 year old who has passed 7'th grade math.

I would absolutely love to know what % of passengers tested positive for antibodies, but were asymptomatic. The Drs involved in taking care of this debacle should be horse whipped for not obtaining blood samples from every person as they disembarked.

Apparently, he hasn't read up on how air handling systems on cruise ships are suspected of spreading the virus, even when guests are confined to their rooms. That ain't rocket science.