Originally Posted by shaman
The question I had about Francis Sell's idea of a short range deer gun got me thinking. I was digging around and found an article Finn Aagard wrote way back in the day about a sawed-off 18.5 inch 308 WIN Mauser that he liked to carry. He'd used it for everything-- including braining an elephant. He'd loaded with with ever load imaginable-- 110 grain to 220 grain. He loved it.

I saw some intersections with my own experience. His 308 WIN, shortened as it was, did its best work around 150 grains going at 2600 fps. He mentioned this was in the range of the 300 Savage. Indeed, my go-to deer rifle is a Savage 99 in .308 WIN that I download to around 2600 fps, only I have to use 165 grain bullets, because the 150s don't group well in my gun. My idea was to have a 300 Savage-like gun that shot easy-to-find brass.


[Linked Image]

These are Aagard's loads. Let's say I wanted to repeat his work. Given what we have and what we know . . .

A) What rifle do we start with? Today, it doesn't have to be an Israeli-surplus Mauser.
B) What length of barrel. He cut his to 18.5" but he would admit that caused some velocity loss? Should it be 20"?
C) Loadings. His loads, especially the H4895 load, spot on with my loads. However, I got to thinking: for a short barrel, would a faster powder work better? What powder? What Bullets would you choose?

I think I found a candidate rifle. I've held one, and I have to agree with Aagard, it's a sweet machine.

[Linked Image from genesis9.angzva.com]

It's a Ruger Hawkeye Scout. I'd probably scope it conventionally.

Bonus question: Given Aagard's later epiphany regarding the 7mm-08, ideally, would you want this rifle in a different chambering?

I can't see anything good about having a high capacity magazine hanging out the bottom of any rifle used for hunting game. Maybe for shooting hogs or for culling operations, but not for hunting game.

I own several 308s with barrels shorter than 22" and find that while the muzzle blast may be a little bothersome when shooting on the range, it isn't noticeable when I'm afield. One of my favorite still-hunting rifles is a 308 in a Winchester 100 rifle that has had the barrel cut back to 17". I also have a factory specs Winchester 100 carbine with a 19" barrel and can't say that the 2" difference in barrel length makes a noticeable difference in any way. Besides, velocity loss from a short barreled 308 at woods ranges is really a non-issue, since you'll easily get greater that 30-30 velocity.