these discussions are never good for me... because when you offer the 308 as a baseline rifle, and describe how the Giants used it, and how it gets so much done for so little fuss, i just want to go out and get one, but first i am tempted to ballistic-gack-check it against what I already have, for example a 165 in the 308 against a 160 in my 280... and of course my 280 will push it faster and the 7mm will fly flatter with less wind drift, and then i have pretty much talked myself out of getting a 308. you guys have saved me a ton of money on new rifles, but isn't the whole idea of the campfire exactly the opposite? cry