IMO if you are dead set against an LRF, you have no business shooting at game beyond the point blank range of whatever cartridge you select. Good LRF's are relatively inexpensive and any scope that has dots or turrents to twist go hand in hand with the LRF. As previously stated by another poster, once you go beyond a certain range no man can reliably guess range accurately enough to compensate for the arching trajectory. You want to shoot rocks at those ranges fine, but not live game.john deere

Heaven has a wall, a gate and strict immigration policy.

Hell has open borders.

Let that sink in.....

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