Originally Posted by chlinstructor
Originally Posted by Birdwatcher
Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Originally Posted by SturgeonGeneral
Empire of the Summer Moon.
SC Gwynne


I, personally, have not read this book. And the reason I haven’t is all the professional anthropologist and historians (that have read it) I know have all told me the same thing. That I would not really appreciate it. It was well received when debuted, and here comes the but, while an entertaining book it makes way too many generalizations about the Comanche. And that much of it was probably plagerized from T. R. Ferenbach’s earlier works. And that there were better works available ( like the one Birdy mentioned above) that would probably be more to my liking.

That’s why I shy away from it. I know many here have read and enjoyed it. And that’s great. Not trying to make myself out as some kind of elitist as I am far from that. Just my two cents. I certainly would not talk anyone out of reading it. These are just my reasons.


I would like a recent work on the Tonkawas, the exuberantly cannibalistic guys of whom around thirty ran twenty-five miles overnight to fight on our side at Plum Creek, inflicted most of the Comanche/Kiowa casualties and captured all the horses. All this at Ed Burleson’s invitation, and Ed was a capable man.

Twenty years later RIP Ford took a fully half Tonkawa force (100 men) against Buffalo Hump’s Comanches, referring at that time to their leaders as ‘superior men with an encyclopedic knowledge of the west’ and won. Fourteen years later the dwindling Tonks were still at it, relentlessly guiding MacKenzie down on Quanah Parker’s bunch.

Never very many, always within raiding distance of the Comanches, yet the Tonkawas were killing and eating Comanches for more’n thirty years, Quanah Parker in common with the rest of his tribe hated and feared them.

After the big ‘74 sundance Parker had wanted to go and exterminate the few remaining Tonkawas rather than go after the buffalo hunters at Adobe Walls (after all the Comanches had largely switched to cattle by that time) but got outvoted. Maybe the rest of his bunch chickened out.

Anyways Gwynn predictably went the Pop Texas History route and at the very start of "Summer Moon” says the Tonkawas were “always losing”.


Mike, seems like I remember reading somewhere that the Comanches murdered what few surviving members of the Tonks that made it to the Reservations in OK.
Just can’t remember where I read it. If it’s true, wouldn’t surprise me if ole Quanah instigated their demise.
I would imagine he hated them like no other tribe.



There was a reference in the "Carbine and Lance" by Nye I believe that shared the hatred all the tribes had toward the Tonks for their cannibalism . There is an old battle site in Caddo Co OK where a good many met their fate by some of the Keechi band.

One man with courage makes a majority....

~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~