Originally Posted by rost495

I actually don't really worry so much, never minding the other nuts on this thread, but I don't stop after 10 shots generally... I have occasionally... but I often chasing accurate loads shoot 3 shot groups of every one in the node and one out each way to boot.

I've read on shooting ladders using 2 or 3 shots each... and its still giving the same result as shooting a bunch of 3 shot groups and overlaying all the targets.

But normally it takes a fair amount of shooting to verify where the best center is and if it will continue to perform. BUT it gives me a good odds at where to start. Better than blindly shooting groups.

Wind driven vertical will show up if its there.

But then in the end, I generally am not using a chrono much at all after the first ladder. Only after I"ve decided by paper results and a few more groups so to speak, will I drag the chrono out to verify a 10 shot group or two, just to see what the ES/SD is.


Rost,

This is starting to make a lot more sense in terms of validating the ladder method. So you run a broad sweep of the charges with single-shot samples, find a node, then zoom-in with 3-shot groups of the charges that are in the node. 7mmDave seems to do something similar.

This seems a heck of a lot better than running a broad sweep of the charges, finding a node based on single samples, then picking one load. This is like trying to tune the station with just the coarse knob. By adding the 3-shot phase to your ladder you add samples to the test, but only in the area you think there is accuracy (fine tune) as opposed to a 2-3 shot ladder. But, you could still miss a node during the single-sample phase due to shooter error, etc. correct? The upside is that any "false" nodes are detected and rejected by the 3-shot groups.

I still see merit in finding pressure/velocity quickly by starting very low, and working up. The steps up might be fairly quick so I don't think the ladder provides much value (i.e. shot from the hip if desired), plus I don't care if there is a node that is 200fps below my target velocity. But I still like to begin low, with published start charges. Once pressure/velocity is found, I could see the value of shooting a ladder with tight steps over a 100-150fps window around my target velocity. At this point, the fine tuning phase, there isn't too much difference between the tight mini-ladder vs shooting groups & looking for low SD/ES. The mini-ladder will require another round of 3-5 shot groups but covers the 150fps window quick.

Jason