Just wanted to give everyone a heads up. Had a deal go south with user 444Matt. On March 21st he listed some 30-06 ammo here on the classifieds. I sent him a PM telling him I would buy it from him. I put a check in the mail the next day. I sent him another PM on the 29th asking him if he recieved the funds. He told me he got it and the ammo would ship that Saturday. Fast forward to April 10th. Sent him a PM asking if he had shipped it he said he had shipped the ammo via USPS (which is against USPS rules) Sent him another PM on April 15th explaining to him that I needed the ammo by Friday the 20th or we would have to figure somthing else out. He told me it wouldn't be a problem and that if I didn't have them by Friday he would refund my money. Friday rolls around, no ammo. He then gave me a bogus tracking number to track them. I told him I just wanted my money back. Here it is May 9th, no ammo, and no check. I understand that things happen and some things take longer than they usually should, but this has carried on long enough. Buyer beware of 444Matt. He failed to deliver the items I bought and then failed to refund my money.

That' sucks that you can't trust some people. Sorry you got burned. Thanks for the info. Take care, Paul

Come on 444Matt don't be doing chit like this. Give the man his money back.

Chesterwy I hope it was not a large amount. People doing this is really unfortunate.

I've dealt with Matt previously and never had any problems either? Hopefully it works out.

Im not saying you are in the wrong, but he has been a member for a while with several thousand posts. Maybe he has a legitmate reason?

He is on the site right now. Hope you guys get it worked out

I am sure it is misunderstanding. Matt is a stand up guy and would not knowingly defraud anyone.

Same here, not defending anyone (we only have one side of the story here), but have you noticed how it's usually the low post count guys that start this stuff, and just as often end up eating their words?

How many posts has he done? I always use this as an indicator

444Matt - 3137

chesterwy - 53

I am fairly new here and have had good luck so far, I have dealt with people with thousands of posts and some with less than 12 posts with equal satisfaction from each and I believe (hope) that they would say the same about me. I don't think it is the quantity of posts or lack there of that you makes you better or worse to deal with. Just MHO. Good luck and I hope it gets worked out and I hope everyone has the same luck as I have had.

Still, if things have happened as Chester says, Matt has some 'splainin' to do, doncha' think?

The number of posts doesn't have anything to do with anything.

Each transaction is independent of every other transaction.

Let the evidence of the transaction rule.

So, how did you verify that the tracking number was false? If that was confirmed by the Post Office it would seem to be a pretty good indication that the seller was attempting fraud.

That's really unfair to the OP who has been a member since '09.

Any friend of 444Matt should PM him and help him save his own reputation.

I don't have a dog in this fight but a USPS "tracking number" is worthless until the package is delivered. It's not really a tracking number, it's a delivery confirmation.

No, it's not "unfair".

I made an observation, that a lot of others have said in the past. And it does seem that more often than not, these threads turn out bad for the originators. We'll just have to wait and see how this one plays out.

As for the post count, somebody asked (I quoted them). I gave the numbers that anybody can see.

Until 444Matt posts (or decides not to), we only have one side of the story.

You must work for the government. You used a statistic to discredit the OP. Let 444Matt do his own discrediting, if he can.

I don't care where you post or how long ya been here I got screwed over by a member here that has been around the fire quite awhile. He wanted to look at a scope I was selling before trading with the agreement that if it wasn't what he wanted he would pay to ship it back to me and because of his time and postings in several area's I said ok (won't happen twice). My ad listed the scope (with picture) as having ringmarks and when he got it he said they looked like gouges which was bull,shouldn't have mattered if it had, his word of paying return shipment was dirt,so to get it back I had to send him the money. All said and done cost me $30 for someone to look at my scope. So people can't put all blame of being a con onto the new guy. The guy that got me is nothing more than a A-hole. I kept all pm's if anyone ever needs evidence. Some just get their rocks off screwing others.

I just hope this works out to satisfy both parties involved.

I agree with RickinTN, USPS tracking is nothing more than delivery confirmation! I shipped a handgun (have FFL) via USPS Priority Mail Small Box w/insurance & delivery confirmation last month; took nearly (4) weeks!!! Expected delivery was four days after shipped & continued to read the same for the entire time! Also, 444Matt may be reluctant to discuss mailing ammo via USPS; whether he done it knowing or not knowing its unlawful! My bet, it will work out OK. Good Luck to both.

I don't trust members with thousands of posts. Don't care to go much business with ANYONE spends that much time on the computer.
Cisco

As for you, piss of then. Do everyone a favor a get off your computer.

I've done deals with matt and no problems ever.

Pretty chickenshit way of letting me know about this, thanks to the members who pm'ed me to give me a heads up about this little nasty thread.

To the OP I'll contact you VIA pm, as that is how chit like this should be handled. To anyone who questions how my transactions go on here do a quick search on my posts in the classifieds. You will not come up wanting in finding about my integrity.

I agree completely.

Noobs ruin all the fun.

Damn, I just lost a future buyer due to my post count!

+1. Matt, will make it right with you....

We'll see if I get a response to the PM I just left the OP. Depending on how that goes I'll share my side of the story and the proof to back it up. Sad things get handled like this, never thought I'd have to deal with one of these type of threads....

You kind of suck at math don't you

cisco1 - member for 649 days with 438 posts = .67 post per day
444matt - member for 3016 days with 3139 posts = 1.04 posts per day
That ain't a whole heck of a lot of difference.

Pm sent back to ya Matt. I would really like it if you told your side of this story too. Let the good unbiased people here decide for themselves who is right here.

I trust Matt so much that I sent him a rifle before he paid for it. Money was there when he said it would be there. Must be just a misunderstanding.

if 444matt send by usps thats his bad..period

Really?

By answering a question, with straight numbers (not "statistics"), directly related to the question, I "discredited" somebody??

What part of my answer is incorrect, discrediting, or biased?? Did I misrepresent anything in that answer?

I've dealt with Matt, things went smooth.. I'm betting there's two sides to this story......

If I had sent payment on March 21 and had nothing to show on May 8, I'd be pissed no matter how many posts someone made. If there's a legitimate reason he hasn't anything to show, it ought to be posted.

You have to have the sticker that says "Surface Transportation Only" on the box and it must be mailed ground.

Ground takes up to 10 days depending on the distance being shipped.

I don't think that a delivery confirmation will allow you to track the actual location in transit.

The post office has closed some major sorting stations so mail may take longer.


Good luck!

I know its a pain in th azz to go to a UPS hub but shipping ammo REQUIRES it. NO USPS.
Matt, I know the expense and time involved doing it right , but, thats why its called "doing it right.
If the PMG found the ammo they would keep it and you would be repaying the OP. How much $ would that save?

"unbiased" we must not be reading the same forum

This kind of stuff is so stupid it's unreal. Posts do not relate to a person nor their morals. I know neither of these people but a person with 50 posts here may have 100000 on another forum. Judging by that is dumb. I am dealing with a guy here that has 70+ posts more than I do but I've paid for an item and have been waiting for it for over 2 weeks now since he claimed to sent it. This transaction started over 3 weeks ago and for every PM answer I get from him, he ignores 2 or 3 other PM's. I hope this transaction finally gets done with but now I guess I don't dare tell anybody about it and pass out a handle or name for the rest of you to be aware of since I'll be deemed bad as I have less posts or not enough or not in the right spot or whatever.

We all are trusting the other person and should conduct the transactions and responses as we would want them done to us. If I'm not going to be around the PC and can't respond I try to let the other party know ahead of time. This getting pissy and name calling stuff is flat out stupid. I'm glad Matt has a good rep and his buddy's stood up for him, I'm sorry the newer guy had a tough transaction on his part but this jumping on him isn't helping. The truth tends to come out so maybe a deep breath and leaving it up to Matt to handle could be the way to go. Let's not turn this site into something like some of the others that people aren't willing to even post on unless they have been there for years.

jryoung,
Happy to know you spend your time tracking me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cisco

I never lost faith in you Matt. The OP...well not so much.

RH

Tracking?....He only pointed out some facts from your stupid azz ignorant comment yesterday.

Although post numbers in themselves do not count, the relationships built over the years that the high post counts usually take do count. There are several members here who I would mail an item before payment is sent because I know they are as good as their word. Matt is one of those people.

I've dealt with many low post count people here, all with complete satisfaction.
That said, a person with a high post count here makes me feel more at ease.
TBB got it right, those people with a long relationship here, as evidenced by their post count, tend to value their reputation here and have built up a reserve of trustworthiness which they are loathe to squander.
I also have a bit of a problem with people who have the vast majority (or all in some cases) of their posts in the Classifieds forum. That just bugs me.

To the OP: You did get Matt's phone number and you did call him
before you sent money, right? And you did call and talk to him when you had concerns?

How much money are we talking here? You discussed the drop-dead date you needed the ammo with Matt before you sent the money?

Sh*t happens, I was doing a deal, went to bed and the next day I was in the hospital. 8 days later I got out and still did recovery for a week and a half. I was in contact with my guy and all was good.

Communication is the answer...

Not real sure how any of this could be deemed as my fault. I made prompt payment with a good check which I told him he could hold as long as he needed to. And I still don't have my ammo. Seems pretty cut and dry to me. As far as contacting Matt on the phone I didn't think it was something I needed to do. Up until this point he has had a reputation as a gtg seller

I have done quite a bit of business with quite a few on the fire. I have had a couple guys that took a week to ship and that's about as much as I could find to gripe about. I live in a semi rural area and know what it can take to make a run to town....so no worries.

I recently sold a rifle to a guy who tracked me down over a post on another forum....a guy with zero posts asks me to ship him a custom rifle. I was apprehensive but when a guy will call me and send an ffl, I know he is serious. In the end, we are both common members here and he is happy with his rifle, and I was paid promptly.

Things happen and we are mostly hobbiests with day jobs and shipping can sometimes be a challenge. I always offer my phone number and typically request it when dealing with a PO box address.

As said, comunication is king.

But publicly calling him out seemed like good business to you?

Well, I know that I won't be doing any business with ya! Thanks for the heads up!

As for Matt, I'd trust him with my kids.

Dude...I'd have contacted him prior to calling him out on the innanet.

I mean, stuff happens, life gets in the way. Not making excuses, but from what I have seen of Matt on here (never met him, nor have I conversed with him), he seems like a pretty stand-up guy.

Guess you needed the court of public opinion to tell you that you should man up and call the guy.

Re: You might want to check this out
444Matt
Campfire Guide

Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 3139
Loc: Alabama


Thank you, I really appreciate the heads up. The ammo is stuck in Denver as verifiable by the delivery confirmation number. Usps has opened a case on it but they are slow. I refunded the little chit his money on the 20th and never heard a word about it till now. No pms, emails or anything letting me know if the refund got their or not, I assumed it had and that there was no problem. Some people.....
_________________________
Screw Cerberus and the Remington horse they rode in on.

Sounds like Matt is a pucking saint.

Six weeks seems like an excessive amount of time for someone not to have taken possession of what they bought so the OP is within his rights to be unhappy. I've bought a few firearms from guys here on the fire and had them within a few days of them receiving the funds from me. Now having said that, the OP should have handled this a little more discreetly, but that's just my opinion. Looks to me like both party's contributed to this in one way or another, which is usually the case in almost any personal conflict.

That's my title.


Travis

I deal on the campfire as often as possible.I haven't been burned yet, I think. I just got home from surgery on my finger as they moved it up a day. I am a little Hi on Oxycodone so am not sure what I am saying. the surgery turned out fine. Ok back to selling.Often times when I sell something I go ahead and ship the item as soon as the buyer verifys that they want it. I sell to canadians and Aussie Mates and I ship as soon as possible, because it sometimes takes extra time for a package to get through customs. And often times they will get the item before I get the money. but I never worry because the money is always on the way. I have found the best way to receive money from Austrailia is by pay pal. don't try to tell me that BS that they won't allow it. I have completed 5 transactions in the last month that were paid by pay pal.What were we talking about? OHyea bad people... don't worry and give shipping extra time sometimes shippers get re routed, so don't call anybody out on this buying/ selling unless 3 mos has went by without any word. Oxycodone is great(persription of course)I am going to take a nap now, you guys take a break..

Good grief...Hubert is on Med's again!!

Too bad you can't sell Oxycodone because that was a good sales pitch.


Travis

Deflave,
Don't coun't on it Look at Leaf the dumb a$$.
BBJ

Whatever Hub is on,I want some. And a half-dozen glazed donuts,

In a to-go bag...........

+1, I agree with that....

Maybe I missed it here, but I haven't read any reasonable explanation for this delay in providing the ammo...

To paraphrase Dylan "stuck in Denver with those wy blues again".....

You, or I, haven't read anything that might qualify as a "reasonable explanation" from seller or buyer.

Matt appears to be keeping this between Him and the buyer.

I've got a hunch the ammo is being held by USPS, but that's a wild ass guess, like most everything else here so far.

I also have a hunch Matt works away from home, Military or off-shore oil or such, and that can add to the problem.

I may be off the charts here, but we'll see.

And if USPS has a hunch it's ammo, and being shipped without the required ORM-D label (which they would then see and refuse to ship), then the ammo could be bye-bye...

Then again, I sent a money order for some stuff in an envelope I had run through the postage machine. Handed it to the mailman. Over 3 weeks later USPS still had not delivered the MO. I got another one and sent that one USPS priority flat rate envelope. That made it in two days. Still don't know where the original MO is...

It doesn't matter WHAT'S on the outside of the box. If USPS figures out it's ammo, ain't nobody getting it back. You can MAIL empty brass or component bullets, but anything with powder or primer is strictly verboten.

I had the same problem with USPS. They said the Priority Mail box "failed", but when they taped it back together, the only contents that made it to the recipient were cartridge cases and bullets. The ammo was "lost". Even the Fail-Safe bullets (with the black coating that made them look somewhat like the dreaded "Black Talons") were "lost"...

Seems if you got enough posts under your belt and are buddies with the regulars here it don't matter how bad you screw up a deal. I've sold a good bit of stuff here and elsewhere. I've always had the shipping planned out before I post something for sale. If you ain't got time to pack it up and ship it right, don't put it up for sale. No matter how many friggin posts you've made.

How about this...lets let Matt and the OP deal with this.

This is not a "Reader's Forum" here with some local newspaper. We are all men here...some women, but all adults.

Well I had every intention of keeping this private, but the OP wants to air it out so here is my side of the story and what will be done to resolve this little situation.

First off thanks to those that stuck up for me on here, it's always nice to have friends cover your six.

I posted some ammo for sale late march/early april. The OP bought it and it was shipped in a very timely manner. This link shows all tracking data:
https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConf...087&qtc_senddate1=&qtc_zipcode1=

I did ship via USPS this something that I have done countless times before, never had a problem. Well now I have one, lesson learned. The OP contacted me that he had not recieved the package. This was middle of April, I told him I'd call USPS and check into the matter as I had saved the delivery confirmation #. Called USPS and was told the shipment had never made it out of Denver and that a case # would be assigned to it and they took my info telling me they would call me when they find something out. (still haven't heard back from them btw)

OP informed me if the package didn't get to him by April 20th that he would like a refund. I agreed as the fault was on my end with the shipping being screwed up.

On 4/20 I sent him this pm:

I've started an investigation with USPS on the package. The delivery confirmation number if you would like to have it is:

0311 2550 0002 5887 7087

I shipped it April 2nd and as of April 4th it was stuck in Devener Co.

If you will please give me your home address I'll be glad to refund your $65 while we wait to see how this pans out.

Sorry this all happened, I shipped two packages at that same time and this one for whatever reason didn't make it.

Thanks,

Matt

On 4/22 he replied with his home address and on Tuesday the 24th I sent a personl check in the amount of $65 out to him.

Never heard a word from him after that. I never checked up on it and honestly I'm not going to notice if a $65 check clears my account or not. Not trying to sound like some big baller or whatever, but honestly don't watch it that close. Not hearing from the OP I assumed everything was fine and moved on.

I wouldn't have even known this thread existed if not for a good friend PM'ing me to let me know what was going on.

So that's my side of the story FWIW.

Now what do we do from here? Well the OP is for sure owed his money. Tommorow I'll stop payment on the check at my bank. I'll also get him another refund on the way pronto. I'll be sure to post all that here for those that care to see.

My biggest issue here is yet again we have a guy going apechit calling out another forum member without trying to contact that forum member to handle it between them. Rather choosing to bitch and moan to the whole forum and let everybody know what a super bad guy I am and not to ever deal with me yada yada. Never mind the fact that I've been a member in good standing here for years, have thousands of actual content contributing posts, or close to a hundred deals go through with no problem here on the fire and at other sites such as Marlinowners.com Levergunlovers.com shootersforum.com and the original MarlinTalk.

Please let this thread be a lesson to all noob trolls. Try to handle crap like this via PM, phone call email ect. Do it in person first. IF you can't get it resolved that way THEN take it to the open forums.

Looking forward to getting this resolved and have the OP eat his words about what an untrustworthy man I am.


PS DeFlave,
I am honored that you saw fit to comment on this thread, that has to earn me something similar to turdlike status. Oh and don't worry, A saint I ain't!

Matt

Unfortunately, packages can and do get lost/damaged in transit and it sounds like Matt's handled it properly. I've dealt with him a couple times and he's 100% good to go.....

It's been more than 24 hours since Matt told us he would split this case wide open with his proof that I was in the wrong here. And prove to his loyalists that he is still their guy. He told me that the USPS was "looking into" where the shipment was. My guess is the USPS found out it was ammo, and it is now in their possession.

Pretty spot on. That is what I believe has happened to the stuff as well. Also yes I work for the Dept. of the Army as a dual status Military Tech. I spent about 50% of my time in uniform working with variouse Army Reserve Units sometimes TDY sometimes local, the other half in a consolidated maint. shop turning wrenches on Army Equipment. Its a cool blend of the stuff I miss from Active Duty minus a lot of the stuff I don't miss.

It's called a Job. I leave my house at 0600 every morning and just got home about an hour ago. You're money will be on its way to you Friday, but please keep us entertained here with your bitching

Dang Im glad to find out this at least was started over such a large sum of money. I was afraid it was just a buck or two. Matt,would you break open the piggy bank and make this go away already...

You are leaving out a few details on our conversations via pm. After you informed me that you sent it in the mail I informed you that was a violation of USPS policy. No reply. Five days later I asked for my money back. The next day you pm me telling me the shipment is stuck in Denver. You asked for my address which I sent. No reply from you beyond that. No check is in the mail. Nothing. As has been stated before communication is key.

The common denominator in many of these call-out threads, is the breakdown of communication, which is then replaced by frustration.

I believe each and every step in the transaction should require a pm to buyer/seller, check sent, pm sent. Check received, pm sent and so forth. Obviously honesty is important here....

I bought a scope last week from this forum, The seller and I have 9 pm's telling of each and every step of the transaction. The scope should arrive tomorrow.

And chesterwy, we're not his Loyalist, this one just didn't pass the smell test, Yet, I understand you wanting your product or your cash. Sometimes we all get a little frustrated and impatient.

This is one of those deals that hit a snag, it will get worked out....

nsaqam,
I was not aware that there was a prerequisite to buy in the classifieds on the fire. Just how many posts do I need in the other forums to be qualified to purchase here. I have spent a small fortune on the fire, financially supporting the sellers here. I guess I'd better back off and get my post count up in other departments before I purchase anything else here. I apologize for screwing up like this. I promise to do better next time. I thank you kindly sir for the enlightenment!

Admiral,
I agree completely and I've made the same point in the past.

To all,
When I sell something, which is rare enough...most of the time I'm buying, I PM the buyer with the Delivery Confirmation number. But then I also track its progress daily and will PM the buyer again the day USPS says its going to be delivered. I think that's my obligation as the seller, and I wish others here would do the same.
Jerry/AK

AZ, what part of "I" and "me" don't you understand?

I'm not entitled to feel the way I do about people who only post in the Classifieds?

This Campfire to me is a place where shooting and hunting information is shared, knowledge relayed and things learned. It has a nice Classifieds section too but that is merely a convenience and not remotely the primary attraction.

Apparently for some, you for one, that is the only attraction.

That bugs me.

Says another "member" with 99.9% of his posts in the Classifieds.

nsaqam is saying something, but I've had him on ignore for years now, so who cares?

Oh, sorry did not know that.

Wow, it never ceases to amaze how some people get worked up into a lather and bitch in public about stuff that should be worked out in PHONE conversation. I always include my cell number, just in case I am unfortunate enough to deal with someone like you.
Thanks for the advance notice, I'll toss you in the Ignore scrap heap along with the other drama queens.

Gotta agree with you there M Steve.

Just looking at what the OP and 444 each contribute to this site and I'll say that I like what I see from 444 a whole lot more.

Now is the time that all the people who just post in the Classifieds jump on me for being unfair to their non-contributory asses.

Nsaqam is a very good individual to deal with !! You can take that to the bank a1 in my book fellows

Uh oh, now I'm worried!!

Thanks for the kind words Isaac.

+1

http://24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/6365231/Caution_on_U_S_Mail#Post6365231
A few weeks ago I posted the above item. Sorry I didn`t see this calling out of Matt sooner.Could have assured the OP that he had nothing to worry about.Have done two deals with Matt and met him personally. Patience and a phone call could have avoided all this.If the OP needed a phone # for Matt all he had to do was ask and I would have sent it to him.He ain`t a Saint,just a hard working Alabama countryboy.
Joe

I was going to post some camping gear for sale but didnt get around to it yet. I figured someone would buy it, as I had a great price in mind. Well, wouldnt you know, no offers came in. No communication. They guy who was likely going to buy it ended up not contacting me at all.

So here I am, with no package, no money, no shipping label, and I am not really sure who the hell to send it to.

Should I keep it boxed up? unbox the items?

What would you guys do?

That's what I got when the tracking numbers were plugged in. Based upon what has transpired and still no refund, this wouldn't be making me feel warm and fuzzy... Communication IS the key. Although I think both parties share in the communication break down, in this case the seller had the greater burden to perform because he had been paid, knew at least 4 weeks ago that he had improperly shipped ammo and it had not been received, and had agreed to refund. If the seller would have communicated (or sent the refund and then followed up to confirm receipt), then there's no problem. The buyer may have jumped the gun calling the seller out, but IMO he was on last PM away from being 100% in the right. We can all learn from what happened here. I hope the buyer gets his $$ back.

Hey! start your own call-out thread dammit,,Fricken Rookies,,

You should have picked up the phone and called him. The fact that you didn't, and brought it up here, makes you look like a azz. Do you honestly believe that Matt would put his reputation on the line for a pissy $65.00?

True.

I was recently invoved in a deal, for a rifle, not a couple boxes of ammo ($65), that went bad, for THREE months.

I had a phone number, actually two (home & cell). I tried calling, and got some lame excuses. Then, I got the dreaded "This number is no longer in service".

So, I went old school, and sent a letter to the address that I had sent the check. No response.

Notice, still no public freak-out in a calling out thread? After three months, two disconnected phone numbers, and an unanswered letter that threatened legal action? And for a lot more money that $65?

While composing another letter that would be sent via Registered Mail, with another threat of legal action, I was also doing a bunch of internet sesrching. Turned up a work number, and another number that appeared to be home. I tried the home number, and BINGO, he answered.

He admitted to not shipping the rifle, and ignoring the letter.

I reminded him that I had a solid address, and the next correspondence that he would receive was a lawsuit, and I'd see him in court. He "promised" that it would ship the next day. I said that if I didn't have the rifle in-hand in two days, that I would proceed with legal action.

Notice, STILL no public drama.

Sure enough, the rifle arrived two days later.

I did this all on my own, it's not hard to do.

Only after another member posted that he was in the same situation with the same seller, and was yet to get his rifle, did I publicly post about it.

Sounds like the OP here went straight to [bleep]-out after having a few PMs ignored, over a few boxes of ammo. Doesn't sund like much effort was expended, other than to beat on his keyboard, crying about how he got took.

Try a little harder next time, and work at it on your own a little more, before reverting to the public call-outs.

Some of us are willing to go to remarkable lengths to ensure a satisfactory resolution.
One incident I had a year ago or so was Smithrjd and I agreed to swap scopes straight across. We both sent our scopes with delivery confirmation. I got the scope he sent in a timely manner and the DC# check said that the scope I sent him was delivered as well.
Well he tells me he never got the scope. I didn't know how to handle this since the USPS said the scope was delivered. I completely believed Smithrjd when he said he never got it though.
I offered to pay the $300 his scope was worth and just chalk it up to bad luck. Smithrjd was having none of that however and he offered to cough up $150 of the price. Neither of us were happy about it but it seemed the best solution for both of us.
A few days later a neighbor several streets over brings the package to Smithrjd and all turned out well.
Never once did any of this get made public. It was handled like men should handle stuff.

Just out of curiosity... how long does a person need to wait after you pay for an item, before you should expect a refund? If the shoe was on the other foot, and the op bought a gun from you, but didnt send the money for 6 weeks, is that ok? Would you put it up for sale, or just sit there and wait? Would he be a dead beat bidder? I venture every person on here would relist the rifle and move on.

If I send my money out in the mail, I want the product. I dont want someone sitting on my cash for 2 weeks before they can find time to ship the itme. If that is going to be the case, it should be brought up during the transaction.

People need to remember that the buyer is putting himself at risk when he sends funds through the mail. When things take longer than normal, you start feeling like you may have been taken. The longer you wait to take action, the harder it is to reclaim your money, or justify the crime to any agency that can help. What would the police say if you sent money for a rifle and waiting 6 months before reporting that it didnt arrive?

Expecting a refund is one thing. However, calling someone out on a forum like this is just petty.

I've read every post in this thread... communication in every deal is the most important aspect... weather good or bad deals... it all goes back to communication...to the guys with lots of post... you enjoy spreading your knowledge... to the guy with low # post your either new or like me... my father told me a long time ago that God gave man two eyes and two ears and one mouth.. Listen and look twice as much as you speak..... I read a lot on the Fire but it doesn't count the times you read a post to gain knowledge but only what you write or speak�. I been on the fire for a long time don�t have very many post� but I enjoy reading about the differences in the different areas of hunting.. I also enjoy looking in the classified for a deal � never sold anything on the fire... I really enjoy this place... the OP and Matt444 should have never let this get on the classified... that way all the pissing and moaning.. Would not have started�this is the only thing that disappoints me about the fire�I�ll get Off my soap box and back to work�. We all have one thing in common�. We Love and Enjoy GUNS�� We need to stick together�
Archie

BS.

It was a last-ditch effort by the OP to get resolution on a deal which had gone bad. His communications w/ the seller had failed to produce any results for his money, and he obviously had not been provided a phone number, so attempted to resolve this through PM's which appear to have not been sufficiently answered in a reasonable manner.

WOW!
Until now I have just read these types of threads and laughed at most of them.

I have bought and sold several guns and scopes on here I have never had any problems shipping or buying knock on wood.

I look at the classified section most everyday but don't look at the other sections unless I have a question or comment on a certain subject. Many folks like collecting hunting items and guns.... there not for sale in any other section but the classifieds.

If something as simple as what forums other people look at or them mostly looking at just the classifieds BUGS you then you have way to much time on your hands to worry about trivial things. Many great people look at these sites and buy and sell but don't get into posting a lot.

By your way of thinking these folks including myself shouldn't be trusted?

To the OP I hope y'all get it worked out between the two of you.

Nope Stumpman, you contribute in many different forums here.

It bugs me when people don't use their turn signals too. It also bugs me when I see grown people riding bicycles in Spandex and wearing helmets.
A whole bunch of other trivial things bug me as well.

You know what bugs me?

Traces of Jelly in the Peanut Butter jar.....Fricken Savages...

...piss left in a urinal...flush for the next swingin' dick eh!

I hate a dirty kitchen sink,and kids who leave their cereal in the bowl.... drives me bonkers.
Oh another thing that bugs me people who keep syrup in the fridge....ARRRGGHHH!!!

How about public bathrooms ingeneral come on people ... $hit in it not at it... or piss in it not around it.... thats sick

BBJ

That really bugs me too!



That is at epidemic proportions in my house! Damn that bugs me!

Not a whole lot worse than having to take a crap in a public restroom and have a guy rush in and take a loud, nasty, smelly dump in the next stall!
Damn that bugs me!

I can deal with that...but if you have shot buckshot or spin art all over the head, have the common [bleep] decency to give an attempt at decon you filthy [bleep]!

....or piss for a yard in front of the head...lean into it assclown...you ain't that big!

[bleep] stuck on the back of non-elongated toilets.

Ex-Navy?

TFF....

I hope this get resolved between you two guys. What bothers me
the most is people that pretend to have hearing problems.

What did you say????

Oh another one is not replacing the toilet paper roll when its
empty.

Finally this thread is getting somewhere.

What I hate is when my wife takes her sweet ass time mowing the yard without any regard for the price of gas. If I didn't have a full ice chest of beer I don't know if I could stand to watch her.

This deal was handled badly on both ends. Buyer jumped too quick to public forum and the Seller didn't help it at all with his use of USPS to send the package.

There is no damage to Matts reputation (at least in my view) and the buyer will be made whole. Everybody ought to be happy, and a bit wiser.

The thing about the toilet roll I hate the most is if your
wife isnt home to get you another roll you have to do the bunny
hop to get it yourself.

It's official now. This HAS degenerated into a pissing contest!

After reading this thread I'm not selling you guy's anything!

Been on the interwebs since the mid 1990's and one thing I've noticed is that all large forums are sort of like high school. You have the popular guys/gals (those who post daily with hundreds/thousands of posts under their belts) who sort of form a clique and they defend each other to the death. Right or wrong don't matter...you don't f*ck with one of our own. Not judging, just what I've experienced over the years as a member of dozens of forums. Been guilty of doing the same thing myself; just human nature to defend a friend.

I think both parties bare some responsibility for letting things get this far. If I were the OP I would have requested Matt's telephone number. If he failed to provide it or ignored the calls then I would have posted here knowing I exhausted all avenues. Matt should have known that shipping ammo via USPS is not permitted as it is on those big ass posters that list prohibited items in every post office I've ever walked into. After two weeks and still no ammo I would have figured it was confiscated, refunded the OP, and chalked it up to a lesson learned.

We'll just call you Kreskin. You seem to have the final answer/word to controversial subjects or actions involving others. You should consider a name change so everyone can recognize your greatness [sic].

high post counts don't mean a dammmm thing, member on here(over 9k post) thats goodie two shoes and on an auction site is a real arse.

Oh , My God only 3 post and you dare speak.

That's just plain wrong. Guys on here who have been here a decade, and have post counts 30K and above, are known by everyone and they know damn near everyone. They care about their reputation, and while they may not piss on your hair if your head was on fire, they'd go the extra 100 miles to make sure a transaction with you went smooth. If you think otherwise then you haven't been on here long enough to observe their behavior.

Wow! This thread is still going?

And this is my first post.

+1!!!

Don't have a dog in this fight, just trying to get my post count up. But wait this is the classifieds so i suspect it won't count.

I hate when someone puts the stupid roll on backwards.

LOL was thinking the same thing and almost made a post on it LOL.

I know you are a new member here and welcome aboard (who knows maybe you are someone else that just didn't want us to really know who you are). Nonetheless, great post........

That's freeking hilarious. Now what is your real name?.......

Even when the crapper looks like this!



Can anyone identify this location Les... anyone

reminds me of the Mountain Ranger School crapper @ Camp Merrill back in 1979... although this setup is too modern and too clean...

Are you me, posting under a different name?

looks like the "white elephant" @ mcgregor range outside Ft Bliss; but willing to believe there are many such buildings in use by our serviceman.

How about when your wife makes a left turn (without turn signal) and then turns into the left lane (of 2), knowing that in about a minute she's going to have to be in the right lane to turn right at the next light. Then at the last minute she looks up and complains when the person behind her, who got into the right lane TO BEGIN WITH, is there and "won't let me in"!

It's either that, or eating crackers in bed. Can't decide which is worse...

Welcome to the Fire!

Laughed my butt off reading this. I am surfing the net with a beer in my hand on the patio while my wife is riding the mower around! Life is good.

Nothing to add, just running my post count up to build trust!

Won't count since you posted it in classifieds!

Neighbor lady said I should be hung for not mowing. I said "Lady, I am. That's why she mows."

I'd like to offer my services as a middle man, all y'all just send your money, rifles, scopes, and pistols too me for "holding" and once I've proofed the items as campfire worthy I will forward them along.

Since I recently became a Campfire Bwana I won't even charge you for my services

Mike

Jerry,
nsaqam must not have a life to live. With 11356 posts in 4 1/3 years is one hell of a bunch of nose sticking. I do gun smithing work also but don't use the forum for socializing. My time is too precious to live on the forum. I need to earn a living. Purchasing items on the fire allows me to complete some jobs or earn a profit at a gun show to help pay the gas and lights. But I DO HAVE A LIFE outside this great forum. I don't live here only visit when I have business or questions.

On another note, when I catch up with my back log (which seems like never) I will put together that 458 Lott with a break for teddy bears in the alders. I found a donor action for the ailing barrel I got from you last century. Should make a very handy life saver.

Money sent today. All this could have been avoided if the OP had sent me a heads up that the refund check I sent hadn't made it to him. Again I had NO IDEA that he hadn't recieved his money.

Here are images of the postal money order sent out today Express mail ie next day. However the clerk did inform me the quickest it would get to WY was Monday afternoon even though I was paying the full next day price.










The OP could have had his money weeks ago if he had just gave me notice that the refund I sent didn't make it. Instead he sat in silence and then thought it would be a good idea to try and make me out to be a complete ass.

I'm glad you are getting your money and this deal is over.

Or you could have sent the refund with a requirement that he sign for it and the receipt be returned to you.

I like that!

The address supplied was a PO box, can you get delivery signature with a PO box? I don't know. The orignal refund was a personal check sent in an envelope with a regular stamp.

I also could have sent him $65 in pennies as his refund this time around for trying to make this such a public chitstorm rather than contact me directly about it which he didn't do when my personal check didn't make it to him.

All this over 65 bucks. I guess times are hard.

pretty pathetic really.

Can anyone identify this location Les... anyone [/quote]


Just a wild guess, but is this the picture you took in the Men's Lounge at the "Four Balls Dancing Country Club" in Key West?

No Joby. That's the latrine at the Dust Bowl, NTC, Fort Irwin, CA. Time was, everyone training for desert warfare had been there at one time or other..
Actually it's funny as Hell as we had been training to fight in the Desert for eleven years before the conflict started in 1990.

g

Campfire needs a "Professional Poster" category.
Cisco

No they need a Campfire Classifieds Troll category.

LOL Now your killin me.

That head looks like a larger version of the one's we had at NAS Memphis in 1970

Thanks for the memories!!!

Time to add my two cents.If i'm the op,it would sure raise my eyebrows to think the USPS screwed up twice,once with the ammo and the second time with the refund especially with the length of time the deal went on.I know a lot of guys on here have a hardon for paypal,but for the small fee for a $65.00 refund it could have been sent a "gift" and the man would have had his money and the fees incured are probably about the same as it cost him for the mo and stamp.A pm or e-mail from the op warning him of going public might also have thrown the redflag to the seller.A Paypal account doesn't cost anything to set up and could have settled a bad situation in a hurry.I also agree that the seller should have never sent the ammo USPS.There have been enough threads on this subject and enough warning posters in the post office itself to discourage it.If it can't be sent in a timely fashion the buyer should have been told that ahead of time.Most problems can be worked out if there is proper communication "before" the deal is finalized.

I frankly love Paypal and if your account is set up right there are ZERO fees for buyer or seller when using the "gift" option.
I recently discovered that there are ZERO fees for either party if you use the "services" option.

Sure makes payment either way very very easy and quick.

Great post fellas2. The usps has really pissed me off lately too. I recently sent a usps money order out using priority mail for a pistol I bought from a guy on gunbroker. Ive been tracking it and its going all over the country side and has taken almost a week to get there which is not typical of them. Good thing Im able to track it though or maybe id think the guy ran off with my money....Moral of the story is chit happens but I really think matt has done everything he could possibly do and maybe we should all learn from this in one way or another....

seems like stealing to me.

Not if you're paying for services or gifting the money. Paypal makes the rules not me.

Refunds through PP also don't cost a thing.

I used the gift option, and rather than taking the 3% surcharge from the recipient of my money, PayPal pulled the 3% out of MY account. There ain't no free rides.

Set up your account right and there are no fees taken out on either end.
I haven't had a single cent of fees taken out any time I used the gift or services options.
Get yourself the Paypal Smart Connect card and all those fees go away.

Recently I have been receiving my neighbors mail and my neighbors have been receiving my mail. I'm actually getting stuff for the same street number but wrong street lately. Funny that I see this post as I'm going to the Post Office today to raise hell about this. I had a substantial check get delivered to the wrong address and it took me 2 weeks to get it from a neighbor. It's not out of the realm of possibility that Matt sent the check and the USPS screwed up. I can see why both guys are pissed but maybe they can hug it out and lead us all in a rendition of kumbya

No Pay Pal for me, no sir

...Why? Because they are Anti-gun? Please elaborate.

Hell, I trained in the desert to go to VietNam. Ft. Bliss, Texas does not have much jungle. miles

That's why I try to avoid them if at all possible. Them and ebay too.

https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/eBay-and-PayPal/Firearm-policy/td-p/105446

Anybody want to look up the numbers on the refund I sent Friday afternoon. They are in the pictures I took and posted.

Or maybe take a WAG as to what happened?

Magnumdood wrote: "I used the gift option, and rather than taking the 3% surcharge from the recipient of my money, PayPal pulled the 3% out of MY account. There ain't no free rides"

If you use the gift option and either have $$ in your paypal account or are linked to a bank account and backed by a credit card, there are NEVER any fees to use this service (gift). But you have to set it up correctly to avoid the fees.

So yes, there IS a free ride. You just have to know how to hitch-hike ha ha!

I have used this once or twice.

Business 101 tells us that if a few gun guys have figured out a loop hole so that PayPal makes no money for providing a service that costs them money to provide, that PayPal will not allow this loop hole to last for very long.

Just saying.

It's lasted a long time already but I agree that Paypal cannot continue this in perpetuity.

It isn't just gun guys who use the gift option either.

You get no protection from PP using gift so maybe it isn't very costly for them.

PP services also is a no fee service if your account is set up correctly.

My favorite quote of the entire thread!

Notice Left (No Authorized Recipient Available)

Bummer.

He should have stayed home from work so he could be there for his $65.

He had me send it to a PO Box......

I don't know about the original poster, but for some of us a PO Box is the ONLY address at which we can receive mail.

Matt,
I had to wonder why you would ask others here to check the status of your Delivery Confirmation. Then it occurred to me that maybe you are simply unaware of how to do it. Go here and enter your Delivery Confirmation number: https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction!input.action

Save the link for future reference. Good luck.
Jerry/AK

Dude, it was a rhetorical question. Of course I f'n know how to check the status.

This thread is like the Energizer bunny.....It keeps going and going and going and going......






Do you know what happens when you put the Energizer Bunny's batteries in backwards?







He keeps coming and coming and coming.............

Matt,
Now really...which of us was Rude, Dude?
Jerry/AK

Sorry if I'm a little on ege. I'm just ticked off at the OP and the fact that MY NAME is still hanging out there in the thread title.

Can't we just change it?

You just did Pal.

Little chit won't reply back I see.

Exactly.

So far we have the ammo I originally shipped (incorrectly and my fault) still floating out there somewhere in Denver. The original personal check I mailed when he first requested it. (no big deal as I had the bank cancell the check, but still uneasy about my acount info floating out there in postal lah lah land) and Now the money order refund sent next day mail with delivery confirmation/tracking all floating out in the mail.

Got the money order today. Glad you were able to sneak one past the post master in order to save face with your buddies on here. And lovesomeshootin as much as I would like to tell you to go [bleep] yourself I can't do that to a veteran. All I can say to you is thank you for your service and sacrifice to our country. You have yourself a good evening.

Thinking Matt didn't have to save face at all.

You on the other hand have plenty of damage control to do.

Not likely to happen though since you contribute nothing and merely troll the Classifieds.

Let's see, member for a little over 2 years, less than 100 total posts of which over 75% are in the classifieds section. I think nsaqam hit the nail on the head.

And all of my classified transactions have gone very well. I hope the ATF gets your ammo back to you. With any luck they will bring it to your house.

Wow...the reactions here are truly amazing. This transaction was handled far from perfectly on either end, but it is easier to see how the OP could be upset considering it was multiple mistakes/oversights by the seller that led to the problem in the first place.

If the seller knew how to properly ship ammo (it's rather common knowledge that ammo is NOT allowed by the USPS), all of this could have been avoided. If the seller had followed up on the delivery in a timely manner, all could have been avoided. And if the seller had checked to see that the refund was delivered and received, the post that he is offended by would not have been made.

But what is truly perplexing is the attitudes of folks like nsagam who wrote: "Thinking Matt didn't have to save face at all.
You on the other hand have plenty of damage control to do. Not likely to happen though since you contribute nothing and merely troll the Classifieds."

So, according to that level of ignorance, one must assume that if you post a bunch -- no matter if it is nothing but pure horse hockey -- , it is OK to make mistakes and have questionable transactions. However, if you don't post much, you have no right to anything and should have no reasonable expectations of fair treatment.

That is absolutely pitiful...

Think you kindda just did.

Did you sevre? If not please don't get into it with me! You see the ribbons I have! That purple one means a hell of alot for me and to everyone else.

Some people just don't get it....

No I did not serve. But I do have a deep appreciation for veterans. My comments to you were not in any way sarcastic or synical. Thanks again for your service.

Beats the hell outa me how someone can do everything wrong but with enough posts in the right spots be totally in the right no matter what. Hell the OP had his money tied up for almost two months before he got a refund. Yet everybody jumps on his poor ass. Bet your ass I ain't buying from Matt.

I would deal with chesterwy in a heartbeat and without reservation.

I don't see that Matt did everything wrong. He mailed ammo using the USPS which was wrong. When it became clear that the ammo never arrived he sent a refund check to the OP. The OP never told him the refund check never arrived. When the OP failed to notify Matt that the check never arrived Matt naturally assumed it had or he would've heard about it.
The first time he heard about it was when the OP made this public calling out thread with the Matt's name right in the title line. That's low class in and of itself. After the OP made this public thread Matt then realized the check had never arrived and proceeded to pay the refund again.
It all could've been handled in private and there would've been no need for face saving on either of their parts.

As to the frequency and the location of postings on this site I'll not apologize for cutting a bit of slack to a long time member who contribute the benefit of their knowledge and experience throughout this site. I will not apologize either for a certain amount of disdain for those who merely use this site to hawk their wares and snatch up bargains.
I've felt this way for a long time and will continue to feel this way in the future.

Keeping lines of communication open via PM's, emails, or phone calls would have negated the need for this thread in the first place - and those are all two-way streets. It may be especially prudent to exhaust all possible means of communication prior to starting a "deal gone bad" thread regarding a well-established member of the forum. As life lessons go, this was probably one of the easier ones...

Agree, with one small change.


It just seems that some people jump with both feet way too early.

If your wasting minutes of your life stressing over something out of your control then take control or move on. Pick up the @#$&^ phone and spend 2 minutes to start things in the right direction. [bleep] happens and that's the way it is. If you don't like it then don't do it.

And Paypal is no free ride by a long shot. They froze my account for over $600 and took it all in the end.. Someone paid them with a stolen credit card and they froze my account 2 months later after I got an Email from them telling me they are looking into an Ebay sale of mine for some air bags. I sent the airbags to buyer. Paypal took my money. I am out airbags and money. I was the only one who lost anything and the only one who did anything right.

There response to was a tongue in cheek @#^ you, read the agreement you "clicked" on to accept our service. They got paid twice I am sure with insurance. I also was never supposed to find out about the CCard. A newbie was reading her screen to me as I was yelling for the millionth time about why I just lost my money and no one is giving me a reason.

$%&#$ paypal. A check takes a few days to a week and a couple days at the bank. Paypal takes 3-4 days anyway and they can keep your money anytime they want. If you dont believe keep using it...

W

Paypal is instant if you link a CC or a bank account and I will quite eagerly continue using PP every chance I get.

And still no stock or cartridge trap for my ! Been over 2 years now, and have heard nothing from sitka deer, if he ever intends to make it right.

Hey Mark, did ya end up finding a good pup? I remember you were looking around a little while ago.

The one thing that keep pooping up in this whole thread that bugs me is the constant reference to a "low post count".Every member on this forum started out as a "new member" with no posts and had they been blackballed from doing business for that reason they wouldn't have been memebrs long.There are a lot of memebrs on here myself included that don't have a high post count for a variety of reason.I'm sure some members are a little hesitant to post questions or contribute simply because they don't have a great knowledge of the subject.Some prefer just to read the posts and be satisfied with that.Others still may find doing a simple search of a subject may give them all the information they need from previous posts.Either way i'd be more hesitant of a "new member" trying to sell stuff in the classifieds that an existing member with a low post count.

A longtime member with low post count isn't here only to sell and buy stuff so I do agree with the above post. Not everyone feels the need to broadcast what they are doing right now (ala Facebook and other social media where people tell each other what they are eating or when they are taking a crap). Some are just content reading.

Plus many banks now offer person2person payments even when both are not bank customers. All you need is an email of the person and then the bank will send instructions on how you can accept the money.

I don't mind going to USPS and filling out a MO for large purchases but I won't bother if the purchase is fairly small. Just not worth my time. If they very least won't accept a bill pay check (bank certified) then I'll pass on the item.

There are so many ways to get the funds to a person instantly that failure to refund in timely manner is at minimum laziness.

Several forums require one to have a certain number of substantive posts in other parts of the site before you can take advantage of the Classifieds section.
I'm not advocating for that here but there is a certain logic to that.

Fellas, I wouldn't call a four year member with over 750 posts a low post count noob. You spread your posts around on the site too.

Check out the post for the Dozier Straight Personal-User in the Classifieds here and although the MIA guy was a rather long time member ALL of his posts were in the Classifieds.

nsagam, The vast majority of my posts have been in the classifieds. I enjoy buying and collecting firearms but not really interested in what makes them tick or the proper round for killing cape buffaloes. If I understand you correctly you would prefer that I not post an "I'll take it" on any of your classified listings. Just asking

Oxycodone propably doesn't need any sales pitches, just reliable suppliers. Reliable oxycodone supplier, that just might be an oxymoron right there. My ex-neighbor had a steady supply of them, propably why he got his house foreclosed. When you are constantly happy enough to not worry about paying bills, only bad things can happen.

Nope, not at all. I'll deal with anyone (most anyone, Larry Root is excepted). Check out the GGL. I just put Shredbaron in there and he has been a member for less than a week and has three entire posts.
I'm merely saying that, in my recollection, most of the BS calling out threads involve members who primarily post in the Classified Forum.
I'll also readily admit that I'm somewhat biased (my issue not anyone else's) against folks who I perceive, use this site merely as a trading post for wares rather than information.

I'm through with this thread because I'd like to see Matt's name off the front page and it won't ever be if I continue posting here.

I have a dead horse that needs beating but I'm unsure how to go about it. Is there anyone that could help me out with that??

Post his picture and I'm sure we can beat the h3ll out of it!