For those interested you can go here and download the timeline from ALERRT:
https://www.alerrt.org/

Breakdown of video here:



Addendum here:

Pretty sad. Well explained. A tragedy that this administration will likely sweep under the rug. On another note, how did you like that fist bump FJB gave to the Saudi crown prince, after calling them a "pariah". What a fn disgrace we have for an administration!! There is a lot of corruption there. Like this guy was saying, "no way in hell that a law enforcement agency would be that incompetent on accident"... Too much corruption in this country and something needs to be done about it..

Do you really want the federal government to be responsible for a local police response?

Because currently they're not.

There's too much stupid schidt going on in this country. Eventually chidt is going to change whether they like it or not..

No doubt. But getting the feds involved in local or state matters won't help that. It'll do the opposite.

Bump.

This stuff is important.

Arm yourselves.

You mean ya want me to buy a gun?

“Never Outsource your own Security”

Says it all right there.

Start by getting in the best shape you can.

Probably not a bad idea to really consider the possibilities and likelihood of trouble. That in mind, yes a gun is a good idea.

Also, armor, night vision, supressor, first aid, get to know your neighbors. Find a team.

For starters.

Wait, what, the dude with the plaid shirt and ball cap never entered the room. WTF.

Some poster from Wyoming has lost credibility with me.

No I want to you take a gun everywhere you go.

Isn't it weird how people will jump before the facts are out. Especially if it suits their interest. That seems to be what all the leftist do, especially leftist media.

Flave, out-fuqking-standing job on ferreting out rat bastards. Semper-fi

There's an entire thread set aside for beating up the fraud.

I was hoping this could be reserved for discussing the facts surrounding this situation.

(fingers crossed)

I hope DPS fillets them SOB’S.

Kill.

Thanks for the info Flave. Honest info that is.

You're right. Preplanned.

Now, on a seperate note.

Remember, flannel shirt/hat guy gave an interview within about a week where he openly stated he never entered the room.

.
3 days before Trumps speech at NRA Houston.

I think we need to step away from who entered when here.

There were shots fired at 12:21 and nobody entered the room until 12:50. The four shots fired at 12:21 were heard by everyone that eventually went in.

This is abysmal.

Would you please fugk off for a while?

The cop standing on the right (south?) side of the hallway, looking at his phone was the husband of one of the teachers murdered in that room. The story goes that he was detained and is gun taken away trying to get to his wife. Seems to me like he let her die in there. Lack of training is one thing, but the cowardice on display here astounding. I feel like these children would have been better served by a handful of average Joe’s off the street.

Back in the day when I did active shooter training, (after the Colorado thing), the training was in its infancy. No shields, just a surplus M16 and a side arm, mine was Gen 2 Glock 23. But we had balls.

Chances were it wouldn’t have happened while we were suited up. We might of had time to shut the lawnmower of and grab the duty belt.

It was a total, dysfunctional clusterfugg of the highest order with no leadership, bravery, or personal initiative shown by the majority of cops on the scene.

There were great displays of cowardice, self preservation, and ignoring shots from the classroom, screams, and training though.

Clean House. Be more picky next time, with who you trust as a public servant... In any capacity.

Where was the No 14 placed this time?

How many minutes did it take the mom to get in?

Evidently Uvalde cops are more concerned with writing traffic tickets than helping kids.

CLUE What did the shooters last tweet say? Why was it taken down?

Read it for yourself. THE BIGGEST OPP

Kids be scared

It’s up to the Attorney General to file charges if needed and it appears to be the case. Federal law enforcement need to butt out. The problem is schools get federal funding so they think they own education. We need a total revamp of federal funding of public everything.

I agree.

I think the State needs to take the lead, because you sure can't count on the DA, or any local level of accountability.

I cannot believe that many people stood around and waited that long and I'm not excluding any groups.

All I heard was Border Patrol, Border Patrol, Border Patrol for days on end.

Well, the fugking Border Patrol took way too fugking long to resolve that situation. And WTF was with them staging triage at the hallways intersection?

Somebody please explain just what in the fugk these people being taught? And by who?

Next question to be answered is the apparent disconnect between the information communicated in the 911 calls and the officers actually on the scene.

Who was receiving those 911 calls? An operator within the Uvalde Police Department? Gross incompetence could explain why that info was not apparent to the Border Patrol guys on the scene for 20+ minutes prior to entry.

Pre -Planned incompetence. Preplanned open door. Preplanned SRO gone..........

The Police Chief had to have both hands for his two guns and couldn't carry his phone even through he was command and control. And people are supposed to believe this schiett?

The Border Patrol has access to local comms and would be operating or scanning those channels. In a schit hole like Uvalde they would do it routinely, and assuredly when working on a situation together.

I think the claim of ignorance of the entire situation is suspect. At best.

Bingo

You underestimate the level of incompetence because you've never had to deal with it.

If you can't STFU I'm going to ask Roger to drive to your house and kill you.

All expenses paid.

Youre cluess on that point. There is no incompetence when cops stand in the hall on the phone with a bleeding out wife or kidd getting shot.

Im just wondering how surprised the perp was when the BP came in and instead of arresting him started shooting him.

The Leos had gone through training for this a few months before and the Chieff got top scoresvas hevdid two years before.

Real leos dont discount evidence given them. You do.

The perp tweeted "TheBiggestOpp"

Get a real LEO to explain what he was meaning.

Jag turning another thread into his BS diatribe. It gets old.

The three letters ran this execution of children perfectly.

Most view this as layer and layers of incompetence, they view it as a perfectly run operation.

There's a reason he can't post under his original handle.

He can't control himself.

You don't know a single person involved in that situation.

If you did, you'd shut right the fugk up with your bullschit.

Just like you did when CockSocket told everybody to get vaccinated. You are all talk.

Travis, tell us how the 18 yo kid was a real dedicated individual and worked his ass off and scrimped and saved for 5 or 6 years as a burger flipper to buy $6 grand of gear to pull this off.

Tell us how the kid goes around the school shooting schiett up for 12 min and no Leo shows up with a clue.

SRO flees when shooting starts to check out a teacher in the parking lot.

A cop drove by him shooting and didnt see him.

A cop doesn't know what to do with a perp shooting into a school and lets him go in.

The entire worlds constellation of INCOMPETENCE all came together and visited this one little Uvalde school for one hour.

YGBFSM

NOT HAPPENING

Rong again. I pushed more Anti - Vax medical info on the Fire than anyone and most here know it.

And ive still been pushing it.

Now your making yourself into a liar.

I risked my friendship with Doc R, who has saved thousands more than you, bashing the vax.

You must have been stoned or drunk again.

LOL

And you defend CockSocket because you know him.

You're full of fugking schit.

LOL

You're a fugking moron.

Isn't that cute. You want people not to schidt on your thread.

So you're saying that an entire Border Patrol Station, the Uvalde Sheriff's Office, The Department of Public Safety, the Uvalde Police Department, and the Uvalde Independent School District were all part of a conspiracy to allow for the murdering of 19 children, and two adults, in hopes of achieving more gun legislation in the United States.

That's what you're saying? Or are you saying something else?

And don't post 100 blurred fugking images typed out by a child. State what it is that you believe happened.

gun free zones need to end forever ! bring back capital punishment , public hangings for criminals, get the southern border wall up , bring back legal elections. well guess what none of these things will happen . so get a consealed carry license , always carry, have extra ammo with and a quick shape knife , be carefule out there,Pete53

Let me guess...

Paul hasn't read the timeline.

LOL

Bloody Mary's? You don't normally get started this early.

Sad, but on any thread here that goes 3 pages or more just look at page 1 then the last page. There’s no more staying on subject, just a playground fight about who said what when.

My take on the disaster; a group of people that were placed in positions of power due to plain old hire your cousin partisanship. After seeing this chit show I’m rethinking whether or not men can get pregnant. Pretty sure that hallway and school grounds were full of such. But calling them “men” is a stretch. Standing your sorry ass behind a corner while your wounded wife begs your help??!! I can’t begin to imagine what was going thru this clown’s mind. Saying he was held back by other LEO is a copout, pun intended. Could you be held back??? That was just an available excuse to keep from being shot at. That’s one sorry MF. Almost wish I hadn’t watched.

That's where I'm at.

The timeline is as difficult to read as the video is to watch. Matter of fact, I think it's worse.

I've decided that if I ever meet eyeball, I'm going to slap him on the left side of his face.

Twice.

And i forgot, they never even tried the door lock.

Just as Dan Scovino said the other day, almost All the Leos hes known, dealt and worked with, would have been fighting each other to go in after that kid and take him out.

This schiett show came down from the top.

Cops keeping a cop dad from going in? YGBSM

My cousin was head of the TDC for about 10 years. Figure 3-4 hostage situations she dealt with a year.

Her people, in each prison all over the state were always for going in when she gave the word.

This leo schiett isnt limited in the law enforcement system.

She went through the FBI Academy.

She and others at the top know what to do.

The top in Uvalde didnt let them. You think the school shooter/hostage programs the Chieff went through taught him to handle these events with no method of communication? To give the excuse the phone was too hesvy to run with?

Planned event. Thats why in ALL these planned events the LEOs NEVER GO IN.

Hahaha. Tff. You love it.

From the timeline:

a Uvalde Police
Officer on scene at the crash site observed the suspect carrying a rifle outside the west hall entry.
The officer, armed with a rifle, asked his supervisor for permission to shoot the suspect. However,
the supervisor either did not hear or responded too late.

That's a fugkin' doozy.

And you know what, if this happens again in a move house, or mall or school before the Nov Elections, the freaking LEOs AINT GOING IN AGAIN. Why? They can all claim INCOMPETENCY.

Its better than "committing suicide".

How is it 5 or 6 Capitol Hill police on duty during the Jan 6 Unsurrection happen to die "accicently" in middle age?

Clue. What? Yeah he reported in Feb that it was a inside job and died 2 days before hevwas to testify at the Jan 6 Committee Investigation.

A dayum shame.......

That was awfully hard to watch, unbelievable the incompetence that went on there.

Those who believe in these elaborate conspiracy theories have obviously lived a solitude life. Its hard enough for one person to keep their mouth shut if its a one man show. Two people can rarely keep a secret. Multiple folks, impossible.

A product of the risk adversion in the police culture from todays defund narrative.

The incompetence didn’t start with the cops. How did the shooter fire shots outside of the school and mosey his ass across the parking lot without the school staff sounding alarms and locking all the doors? Who was manning the front office? How long does it take to lock the doors and how did the teachers not know to do this? They had time.

The gunman didn’t keep his mouth shut.

That's all addressed in the timeline and video.

You should read and watch them.

I can honestly understand if someone develops that aversion. When they do, it's time to move into a different profession.

There is a link in the OP to the timeline. I missed it the first go round. It's easy to read, but hard to stomach.

Absolutely disgusting that police arrived 3 minutes after the [bleep] entered the school and allowed the [bleep] to kill children and teachers for over an hour.

I think reading the entire timeline and the assessment actually helps people absorb the situation a little better. They do a really good job of explaining doors, responses, etc.

One thing I noted was their commenting on the fact that one responder hauled ass through the parking lot instead of stopping, and walking in. If you've ever been to a schitty situation this can't be emphasized enough. You lose so much information and you disable so much natural instinct when you drive up to the door or scene.

You're almost always better walking that last 50-100yds.

It's an issue in the police culture that drives hiring and promotion. When even a good shooting can ruin a police officers life and put him on 24 hour news cycles it gets hard to hire the right kind of police officers.

When the officer was there because of the call from the funeral home employees that were shot at, you would think that a guy matching the description of the perp carrying a rifle would be engaged immediately.

But in today’s climate, if it was the wrong guy, the officer would be sued into poverty and criminally charged.

That’s why police are leaving the job

I've heard little discussion of the "averted" school shooting at that very school 4 years prior in which two "unidentified minors" were arrested. One of which would be 18 now. And the fact that his nickname was "school shooter" is unlikely coincidence. Seems like the failures weren't just that day, but rather could be traced back four years.

That makes perfect sense to me. Is that something that's taught in modern LE training?

Yes but it's not emphasized by enough instructors sufficiently.

In my opinion.

According to Mike Gs video the shot was at 148 yds and the shooter was moving.

That's a tough call to have to make and not an easy shot with a school as your backstop.

That's funny that somebody like you (who has never done anything) would note that.

I think somebody that knows what the fugk they were doing would not be asking for permission to use deadly force on the fugking radio.

Incompetent.

Period.

I would say those issues are noted in the report rather than being addressed. The report says that the exterior door is usually locked, but it wasn’t this day. Why? The report goes on to say that the door could be breached by shooting through the glass, but even that would have given the officers time to engage the suspect prior to entry.

As for the teacher who went outside and saw the shooter coming (female 1), she failed to explicitly note a shooter, but rather told kids to get in their rooms. That is a failure on her part that could be easily explained by the stress of the situation on an individual who isn’t trained or capable of making rational decisions in those circumstances. What the report doesn’t seem to address is the lack of an alarm system . All schools have alarms for fires and emergencies. In today’s world, students and teachers are at much greater risk of a school shooter than being killed by fire/smoke.

We are focusing heavily on the police response, but glossing over the school response. Like I said, they had time. It took a few minutes from the accident until the shooter entered the building. The crash was witnessed, the shots outside were heard, he shot into the school before entry.

All the teachers had to do, even after failing to lock the exterior doors, was give the alarm once the shooting began and lock the the doors to their classrooms. The report says the doors had to be locked from the hallway with a key. Did the teachers not have these keys?

Ultimately, my point is all the failures don’t make sense. Yes, a failure of a particular system is possible, but a top to bottom failure at all levels is just too coincidental. We can ridicule the conspiracy theorists all we want, but the idea that some malfeasance occurred is more likely to me than a total breakdown of all security and response actions leading up to and during the shooting.

The SRO/School police chief is suspect to me. He is a politician. I could easily see any individual being politically motivated, not necessarily to the extent of wanting children to die to achieve some political goal, but manipulated and coerced with money or some for of blackmailing buy our obviously corrupt government? Absolutely. That’s why I asked those questions, and we still don’t have answers. I suspect that we never will.

What do you teach in your tactical training?

Have you pioneered the school shooter blaster technique where you teach students to take shots around a school no matter what the conditions or backstop?

The report is going to note facts and not conclusions.

But based on those facts outlined in the report I'd say it's pretty clear that, that school is every bit the colossal fugk up that the town is.

Cops, politicians, schools. They're all a fugking joke in this situation.

So it's much better to just let him gain entry to the school bldg without challenge?

I’d rather be persecuted and get wrung the the wringer for killing an armed tranny walking into a school than live with myself for not taking the shot. I don’t know how any of these officers haven’t killed themselves yet, and I hate the idea of police suicide.

148 yards on a SLOWLY walking man is a cake walk for anyone trained with an AR.

Hold I front of target, fire as target leading edge brakes front sight post/reticle. Target neutralized.

Hindsight is 20/20

No question. But don’t you think it’s possible that someone motivated/coerced the school police chief to unlock that door? And the shooter walks directly to that door? School police chief than tells officers to to barricade hold rather than neutralize threat? Then claim confusion of who was scene commander? It really doesn’t seem that farfetched to me.

Who unlocked the door? Why? That’s the burning question that I have. We also need to know what was in the officer’s mind that could have shot the shooter outside. Was there training on shooting armed suspects leading up to this shooting that may have reinforced a need to clearance to shoot and armed suspect? Yes, the environment for cops now is bad, but shooting the suspect was a no brained, unless the officer was trained otherwise. If he was, than how, where, when and why?

They should put electronic locks in schools so that any teacher or administrator can push a button and lock every door at the same time.

I don’t buy it. Ask me before or after in these circumstances and my answer is same. We have an active shooter who just shot his grandmother, crashed a truck and walking into a school. That’s not hindsight. That’s common sense.

It's funny how you seem to hear things in you head that are not written in posts.

Well the world would be a better place if you would have been the guy who had sights on the shooter as he entered the building.

I can find a lot of fault with how this went down but the cop not taking a shot he was not sure of is pretty far down the list of what went wrong.

It’s a very easy shot. We routinely shoot movers at 600 yards with bolt guns under time.

The problem was the hesitation to shoot because of political bullshit and the risk the officer would have to take in today’s fucqked up world

And a fireteam of police, full time on site any time students are on campus. Obviously with the sole purpose of saving kids and killing a school shooter.

So who exactly is the "They" in your post?

Do the schools in your area have such a system?

Have you thought through any downsides besides the cost of such a system?

What happens in a fire?

The schools/ school district. There will always be downsides to any solution.

Only you would lock the doors during a fire.

Not seeing what the cop saw, sight wise, as well as backstop, time to execute the shot, and ability with the rifle as sighted.... They all factor in.

But if that nutjob had been pinned down outside, our outright killed, we'd be having a very different conversation right now.

Hindsight is 20/20.

I don't think any of those cops wanted an ounce of responsibility for anything. And yes, that's probably a by-product of being afraid of what comes after they fire their gun today.

THAT needs to change. In any active shooter situation, police need the green light to shoot/don't shoot as their gut tells them. Not some incompetent supervisor.

No shot is understandable . But I’d be on him like a duck on a June bug through the door he entered.

Wait a second,,,,,,,, I thought John Burns was the only guy that had buds in the know?? But this guy knows the supervisor over the some of these agents.

One serious note, people always say be careful what you post or say on the internet. The feds are watching, you will get a knock on your door at 0300 in the morning. But the more I read of eyeball (Jaguartx) posts. I know this is complete bull chit. The feds aren’t watching that hard lol. If they, where they would have raided his place years ago at 0200 in the morning. How anyone takes this dude serious is beyond me.

You are a ph ucking clown. You stand on the sideline cheering on this Ukraine-Russia war, yelling I stand with Ukraine. Cheerleading when the U.S sends the Ukraine's more money Millions/Billions. Can you imagine what kind of security system upgrades, schools in this country could've installed with that money that we sent to your favorite country of Ukraine? You don't give a chit all you are worried about is pimping your overpriced AR's and name dropping your bros to hawk your overpriced AR's.

He's been on a run, he'll flame out.

This seems like a pretty tricky problem to solve.

It would be for you. But then you are a World Champion shotgunner who could hit a high percentage of 80yd crossers screaming across the sky while under pressure.

No police dept in the world could train officers to anything close to your shooting ability and confidence in shooting a moving target under stress.

World would be better if some one with 10% of your skill was on the carbine when the shooter was going for the door but how much training would that take.

Yes it is. The officer didn’t have all of that information at the time

It's the 21st century. All kind of stuff is possible.
Including pass thru doors that can be opened from inside even when locked. Sensors that signal a door not properly closed. Doors electronically locked, that, also unlock?

The pass through is mechanical,
Not reliant on signal or power, folks can get out.

If the system works, the doors could be simultaneously unlocked.
Allowing easier acess to responders. Patched into the alarm so it
can only be activated with the alarm, or, sets the alarm off.

If it can't be used to open in an emergency? So what?
Normal locked doors can't either. They beat/pry them open everyday
in emergencies.



Can't believe someone so tuned in to so many important people involved
in defense, security, forced entry....is stymied by a lock.

As usual Deflave hits it on the head. Recent news reports the town mayor is in damage control, saying there is a cover going on.

"Uvalde Mayor Don McLaughlin berated the media for sharing the leaked video in a Uvalde City Council Meeting. "The way that video was released today is one of the most chicken things I've ever seen," he said. https://nypost.com/2022/07/13/uvalde-mayor-calls-media-chicken-for-leaking-video-of-cops/

"In an interview with CNN on Tuesday, McLaughlin said he fears foul play, saying, "I'm not confident, 100%, in DPS because I think it's a cover-up." He went on to say that while he trusted DPS staffers, he no longer believed in upper management, explaining that he thinks DPS Director Col. Steven McCraw is "covering up for maybe his agencies."
https://people.com/crime/uvalde-mayor-says-cover-up-possible-of-investigation-into-school-shooting/

Have you two fücked yet?

Mike G already explained.

The guys who went in did not know there were any kids in the room until they made entry.

You litterally posted the video answering your question.

Knee jerk reations tend to have problems. But they feel good to the knee jerker.

Then what was he doing on site, aiming at the suspect with a rifle?

This.maybe a couple of innocents rather than 34.

A bad plan today is better than a great plan tomorrow.

I’ll say this again. 148 yards on a man walking casually across open ground is not a tricky shot. The goal isn’t MOA groups or a short tracking jobs. The goal is putting bullets in the shooter.

Agreed. Most competitive shooters have better shooting skills than LEOs. Products of practice. When the SHTF, the entire nationwide group of PRS shooters are who you want on your team.

A good friend is ex law-enforcement, president of our gun club, and a DOE employee. He’s the real deal and has been there and done everything including gun fights. I’ve never been a pistol shooter and in many of the PRS competitions some stages involve some pistol shooting. I got together with him for some basic training and ran some drills. He told me right then and there that I shoot better than most of his agents on the first trip to the range, which is pathetic

😄😁😁😁😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
😍😍😍😍😍


Nasty!






Jag,


"A bad plan today is better..."


Burns knows the guy who said that.
His friends trained him in everything he knows, Burns
designed the weapons he favors. Using proprietary knowledg.

Hell, 2 or 3 quick shots in the air would have had him dropping gun and hitting the deck.

my then 11 yr old son killed two trotting deer at about that distance and he'd never even shot more than a box of rounds, that guy was walking...

(Insert Big Sigh) No dumb ass this was not a "Planned" event. This is all about incompetence and being a chicken chit. This is what happens when you hire cousins, uncles, nephews, neices, aunts, grandma who never been 100 miles from home to be cops. You know Alot of people on here 924 hour) convicted Derek Chauvin before his trial said he is guilty of murder. But I guarantee if he was there that MF'er been running through the door. Because he's considered "old" school if you will.

Modern law enforcement are trained in fire superiority more so than producing very well aimed shots. Look at a common course of fire for them, 3, 7, and 15 yards I think are the standards. When dad went through the academy and for the first half of his career.m, they started at 25 yards. Dad is a damn good shot with his service revolver.

I assume the information he had was that a truck crashed and the suspect got out and shot at the funeral home employees. When he arrived he saw a guy walking across the field with a rifle. I guarantee you he didn’t have information that he shot his grandmother in the face, knew he was a tranny, and knew he was going to go into that school and murder 21 people. Of course if he knew that he would’ve taken him down immediately.

What if the guy walking across the field was a citizen who is taking the law into his own hands to stop a shooter? I don’t believe he actually witnessed the guy shooting. If he’s arriving on the scene with little information he has a lot of fast decisions to make some of which could cost him his job and his life so he wants to be sure Especially in today’s bullshit political climate

Sounds like a buisness opportunity for you.

Develope such a simple system and convince schools to buy it. Easy peasy.

You might want to delve a bit deep with the idea kids should be beating doors open in a fire.

You have now solved school shooting, whatcha gonna get done this afternoon.

There are three people in that quote dipch!t.

Fail safe/Fail secure, do some research dumbass. Pretty simple really

Love how this story has made everyone on the fire a law enforcement tactical operations expert.

😂

That’s all fair, under those basic assumptions you made. But the grandmother called from my understanding. I guess that leads to more questions. What the hell was going on with the dispatchers? There does seem to be a huge lack of communication on that front. Again, three minutes from wrecking truck to school entry.

So, you dont think it was a fluke of bad luck the locks didnt work that day and the video didnt work and the gurads fell asleep on Epstiens day and the videos didnt work when Epsteins pedo bud hung himself in a French prison a few weeks ago?

Freaking conspiracy theorist, huh?

And no one had a key when they didnt even need one?

My wife was a principal at Midland High and janitors, head teachers, dept chairs, and all assistant principals had master keys and that was years ago.

Seems like every BS lie they came up with gets found out.

Pretty recently police in Colorado shot a guy who had just stopped an active shooter.

Police mistakenly kill hero

I’m not saying there was malfeasance, but I’m not saying there wasn’t. If there was, I wouldn’t be surprised. In today’s world where we all agree here that we have a corrupt government that covers for their own, persecutes their opposition, and seemingly will sell their country out for another dollar, killing a few kids for “a greater political good” doesn’t seem too far fetched.

I have questions and I want answers. I’ve got two little girls. I want them to be safe when I send them to school.

Well get it done.

If you believe that's a simple answer to stopping school shooting why are you sitting on you azz posting on the internet and not saving kids?

Exactly. Lots of decisions to make as an officer as well as a Good Samaritan

I say a whole pile of Fire guys would have done a whole lot mo'better than the PROFESSNULLS done.

If youd have had a kid in there would you rather have let the cops have their way or guys like RBBar, Col Travis,JG, and a bunch of others on here?

I completely agree.

It's actually very simple, prisons have been using fail safe/fail secure locks for years. It's the money that's the rub. Maybe if the Gov't hadn't sent BILLIONS to Ukraine for your hero they'd pony up the funds to the schools. Dumb Fugk

After Columbine US Lawmen made the decision that instead of thinking, the new program would to be NATIONALLY to go to the gunfire.

I guess Uvalde didn’t get the memo

A few observations:

The 148 yard shot. Given the readiness and preparation on the part of all city LE on site I’d say that shot was about 147 yards too far. Give someone with the wherewithal of this traveling circus an AR with red dot and pace off 148 long steps. Tell them to stand and shoot the silhouette target you just placed down range. It’s entirely likely you’ll get a response something like “What target?”

The unlocked exterior door. I’m not Gods gift to doors and windows operation but I know all the secured doors I’ve been in contact with are of the automatic locking type. That is you can open them from the inside, most often with a push bar type mechanism, but the door remains locked from the outside. Yes the locking feature can be overridden with a key so outside entry is accessible by anyone that can pull the door open or cheated with a rock blocking closure. The unlock mode is most often used in areas of common use, not at the back of a school accessing an unguarded parking lot. Someone intentionally defeated the auto locking feature.

The classroom door lock. It has been stated and reported the classroom door could be locked only from the outside. I think somebody is either awfully mistaken, not truthful, or truthful about a situation that is unbelievably stupid. If this is the case it’s possible to lock the children and instructors inside their classroom but impossible for the occupants of the room to lock danger out. Really?? The only time I’ve seen that is with isolation doors used to entrap an undesirable. Usually a small room with exit possible only with assistance from outside the entry or exit possible thru a second door not leading to the protected area that automatically locks from the inside.

Much of the above is conjecture based on my personal experience as well as the ability to evaluate a situation requiring a response. The only certainty is that there was enough stupid in Uvalde to fully contaminate 10 more cities. And there is still a lot of BS coverup.

Pretty sure the Fire Deptartment would ask the same question.

It’s been posted here and I’m assuming correctly that the SOP in an active school shooter scenario is simply go neutralize the bad guy. The school district police could have walked right in to the unlocked classroom same as the shooter. It’s not too complicated if you have the will and basic knowledge.

Who do you know in the fire department?

Oh fug.

Selling schools on the idea of prison doors seem like a tough sell.

And of course the Putin Pufters are going to blame school shooing on Ukraine.

I had Travis start this thread in an effort to keep it on topic.


I thought the class room doors could be locked from both sides but only with a key but that the door RM 111 lock was not working properly or had a bad strike plate.

The shooter accessed RM 112 from inside RM 111 according to the latest timeline.

Hero was stupidly standing over the perp he had just shot and jacking the perps gun to unload it. Stupid hurts.

It exists now Genius.

The electronic part was in place in the 90s in buildings with a concern
for security. Not necessarily the unlock all doors combined with the alarm,
But the rest was there.


Not NSA, I don't know special people. Just places
like trucking companies and factories.





"You might want to delve a bit deep with the idea kids should be beating doors open in a fire."


You ever walk out of a building that has that bar you push to open it?
The one located right where you intuitively push the door?
The one where, even if folks were piled up trying to get out, something
would very likely hit it and unlatch the door?


Most of those can be locked on the outside, pass through from the
inside. They too, are old and common. I'd bet that school has some.

[/quote]

Define "Prison door" potato head.

😳😳😳

LOL that's much too complicating for "The Forehead" to comprehend. Have to talk to the fire marshal first. Fugkin idiot.

In your halluccination how does the magic lock system "They" should buy differ from the legacy mechanical locks that are supposed to be locked to the outside all the time?

Be specific as to the advantages.

I bet burns got his baked potato head mashed more than once when he was young with his narcissistic dosh personality.

You really should stick to things you think you know, and that sure ain't physical security. I'm not going to go into detail as to how what STX suggested is the answer to most of the problem (if you really want to know do some research) but he is right and the hold up is funding.

"Prison doors" my azz. Go suck some Ukraine cack

Stupid ass reasoning like this is precisely why our country is in the shape it’s in.

LOL.

You would win that bet and your posting behind a key board is duly noted .

Ever wonder why I am so confident taking on a pack?

It's not from a lack of experience.

Don’t know Roger, but from what I’ve seen and what he’s posted - he’s probably one of the last posters here on the old campfire I would accuse of hiding behind a keyboard.

You're the guy that needs to eat a shiet sandwich before they can say it tastes like shiet.

Yet he does.

Simple enough to put a name in the sig line if you want to schitt post and attack another member.

Your lack of name is also duly noted.

If you schitt post or attack other members from behind a key board you are a cowardly schitt bird.

If you want to enjoy the CF and choose not to have your name on the net this does not apply.

LOL, my name is in my sig line and also where I live. Damn keep digging.

At least they aren't trying to make money from tragedy. You've been proven wrong more times than JO.

LOL.

I apologize Roger but I figured Hunter was not really your name because this is a hunting site.

You, sir , are not a cowardly schitt bird and I am a potatoe head.

It would be nice if some of the real cowardly schitt birds would follow your fine example and not attack from behind a key board.

Outside of a few sockpockets and a welcher, I don’t [bleep] post or attack other members. I have never posted anything I wouldn’t say in person.

I respect your shooting ability. I do not respect your using this incident as a way to try to associate yourself and your brand name in order to pimp your wares. Take it for what it’s worth.

You do realize the OP in this thread is pimping his tactical training, Right?

And just for funnzies why don't you prove me wrong once again.

I will gladly rub your nose in it.

The OP is pimping his wares.

Google says 80,000+ elementary schools in the US.

The last elementary school mass murder was ten years or 800,000 total elementary school years ago. Before they happen the odds of these things happening at any given school are vanishingly rare.

Complacency creeps in, that day was an awards day with parents in and out, doors were left propped open, and at least one apparently unlocked.

There already was a safety protocol in place, people just weren’t following it.

‘Nother question is, was there even time for the first sighting of the gunman to translate into a lockdown message before he was at a classroom door. Were those three teachers warned at all?

In my opinion you are missing the bigger piece of that part of the incident. The officer made a radio call to ask for permission to shoot from someone who was not seeing what he saw. If that doesn't raise a major WTF with you, you should really distance yourself from these kinds of discussions. That call belongs to the officer and the officer alone. If an officer needs help making shoot/don't shoot decisions, he is in the wrong profession. If he had passed on the shot because of his own assessment, then I'd understand his decision.

Hi Scott. I hope all is well. How long do you give yourself before you have a meltdown?

Hold Into The HOA
Paul

deflave,
Thanks for posting. Really good factual dissecting of the f'up.

Well we can all have opinions and I will express mine when ever I feel the whim.

Don't want to see my opinion Rick Bin has supplied you with a handy little button. Click it.

Of all the issues with this disaster I find the cop not taking a hasty 148yds shot on a moving person he has not positively identified as the shooter one of the smallest.

To not understand that no city police force in the nation, much less in small town Uvalde, trains 148yds moving shots really means you don't even sort of grasp what was going on in that cops head.

You are free to Monday Morning Quarterback that to death, from your key board, but he did pass on his own assesment and was looking for validation for a risky shot from his chain of command.

He is.

But honestly, I don't know what people are expecting. You know who signs up to be a cop in Uvalde for $50k a year? A kid who wants to stay in his hometown but doesn't want to sweat a lot at work. They're not drawing from a really deep talent pool in Uvalde.

You can either recruit top talent or you can hope everything works out in Mayberry.

Again, you missed the substance of the post. The officer used his radio to ask for permission to shoot. The shoot/don't shoot decision was his and his alone.

Bingo! You said it perfectly. I have no idea what academy they go through. But up here all agencies minus APD go to the trooper academy in Sitka from my understanding it’s a very hard academy with a decent wash out rate. Which is what you want. If you can’t make a run and quit, what else will you quit on.

I didn't miss anything.

He choose to pass on a risky shot while not having positive ID on the shooter.

He wanted validation from his chain of command to take a shot he was not ever trained to take on a person he was not sure needed to be shot.

Of all the bad decisions that day this is very near the bottom and is the essense of Monday Morning Quarter Backing.

Very true.

While the cops there sucked, the Brass was horrid. NO leadership. None.

You are Monday Morning Quarterbacking yourself.

You don't know what type of shot the guy had. It may or may not have been a "risky shot" as you put it...

The guy may have been teed up like a golf ball, for all you know. Obviously, the cop had a clear enough picture to ID him as the shooter/armed intruder... Why else would have have asked for permission to engage?

Beav,

He was a medic and probably a doctor.

What's sad if even if he was just a beat cop sanatizing his hand is litterally an extremely smart thing to do if you are facing a mass shooting and will be rendering aid to wounded.

Most without real world experince think doctors use gloves to protect themselves, it's much more for the wounded to stop infections.

Should have been faster on the delete, Beav. The packs gonna be mad.

So we all agree none of us know what the shot looked like or what the cop had for the positive ID that is reqiured for the use of deadly force, Right?

We also know pretty much as a fact that Uvalde does not train their police force in 148yd moving targets.

I can guarantee you it was a risky shot. It was 148 yards, which was probably 98 yards further than he'd ever shot before. Imagine your longest shot ever, then triple the distance. And your rifle has a red dot and 8#, gritty, Mil-Spec trigger.

I've seen a lot of cops shoot, who were far better trained than UPD. I'd wager that the odds of him making the shot were less than 5%, outside of divine intervention.


Because he knew he couldn't hit the bad guy. And when he missed he wanted it to be someone else's fault...... "They told me I HAD to shoot."

You have the right to remain silent. You just don't have the good judgement to do so.

Yeah, judging from what I've personally seen on the police range, from your avg. cop, probably not an easy shot.

Now, if it had been you or I there, the guy probably would have been down kicking.

Sounds good unless I happen to be one of those out in the hallways when the locks are thrown, then at the very least I’m fumbling for my keys when seconds might count, if I had keys to fit adjacent doors.

I’d go with a simple mechanical lock thrown manually from the inside of the door.

. Incorrect. Asking leadership to make a shoot don’t shoot decision for him is a goddam embarrassment.

Hold under the hand sanitizer
Paul

Monday Morning Quarter Back safe behind his keyboard,

He made a decision to not shoot. You can second guess him all you want, won't change the decision.

Maybe you should hang up the spandex and bike helmet and join your local police force so you can make split second life and death decisions.

Post up the exact transcript of the cop's comunications with his chain of command.

Like I said of all the bad schitt that happened that day one cop not taking a risky shot at a person he had not PIDed is way down the list of things to dwell on.

But you have this one stuck in your craw and for some reason the emotion driving you is embarrasment?

This is such an awesome statement for a big chunk of the campfire forms...
But if everybody practice that it would not be near as entertaining

Honestly, I figured you thrived on the attention.

Or used to getting gang banged

Well stated, and irrefutable.

Same same.

That's what I said, so to speak.

Thrived is a good word but if I use it first it sound braggadocious.

I am some what more modest.

I don't believe for a second that Flave is pimping any wares, his mom excluded of course.

I’ve never met Flaves Mom, but Burnsberg be posting hella Wyoming Arms rifle pics. Tard! LMAO

What you fail to realize, and I mean this in earnest, is the experience when you read Or hear "John Burns", that rush of endorphins, the tingling in your brain stem, is not what everyone experiences under the same stimulus.

When are you joining the local PD so you can make split second life and death decisions that will effect all your family and the rest of your life?

Lickin Travis nuts is pretty risk free in comparison.

Why are you defending the gross negligence of the UPD and school district police?

LOL.

I am well aware of the fear and dread some of you experience.

That's on you.

Buck up Buttercup.

...and braggadocious is what you've conditioned us to expect. It's your version of nagging charm.

John,

In all seriousness and LR shooting respect, sponsor the LR hunting forum here and stick to it. I don’t see why it wouldn’t be productive. Keep politics and [bleep] out of it,

See what I mean...

LMAO

I’m just a lowly Tennessean, but nothing positive resonates at the sound of John Burns . LMAO

I was unaware the entire UPD had sights on the shooter as he moved to the exterior door of the school.

My understanding was a single cop had a very risky shot on a moving suspect that he could not PID at 148yds.

I do believe the things that happened by the UPD in the hallway were unexcusable.

Thank you for being real.

Meh.

I already fixed that.

LR shooting is main stream.

Fixed LDS in the optic forum.

I am working on world peace but I can multi task.

Fair enough

I have been very clear on this position from the start.

Got any hunting spots this year?

One thing is for sure . No matter what the facts or opposition suggest, you are firm in your opinions.

If my cock was as big as your ego, Beave would call me DeFlave.


Your effort is not lost on me.

Touchè.



LMAO

I’ll think about it.

Will you give me a Greybull rifle if I do?

Two things I think we can all agree on.

The first being Uvalde was and is an absolute clusterfuc.k top to bottom.

The second, and I cannot stress this enough, it is a shame that John Burns was not a victim of a school shooting decades ago. What a dosh.

I’ll Wade into the debate around the cop not taking a 148 yard shot at the shooter before the shooter made entry into the school. I don’t think I have to comment about requesting permission to use deadly force for an IMMINENT threat so I’ll address the cops potential lack of confidence in making that shot. Realistically 148 yards isn’t that far for many of us and it’s a chip shot for the AR itself but irrespective of whether you hit the shooter with the first shot or the follow up shots the act of engaging that target forces that target to focus its attention on you giving you more time to kill the bad guy. It really isn’t a situation that calls for over-analyzing every decision, the situation calls for fast, decisive action by one motivated, unafraid man….the fact that man has a gun and armor makes it better for him but shouldn’t be a requirement. I am always armed but if for some reason I wasn’t then I always carry 2 knives but if for some reason I wasn’t then I’ll find a rock or baring that I always have my 2 hands. NOTHING would prevent me from doing anything I could to save those children. Unless I took a CNS or fight ending hit I figure that I have another minute or 2 of fight left and I wouldn’t let it go to waste.

There’s no excusing the incompetence and cowardice of all law enforcement officers and agencies involved in this Great Uvalde Disgrace.

Clearly.

Christ sake you were a fueler in the chairforce… where were you in 2003? 2004? 2005? 2006? 2007? 2008? 2009? Again a fueler in the chairforce and you talk like you are the baddest SOB to walk gods green earth.

Greybull died about a year or so after I sold them my shares. Close to a decade in the past

Get it done and we can talk about a suppressed AR patrol rifle on the standard LE discount.

I don't expect to hear from you, truth be told.

This was 2006.



Are you requesting more pictures from that timeline?

Never mind it went over your heard. But think really hard what was going between 2003-2010??

His fantasies?

And he was too indecisive to make that call without asking his boss first. lolololol

Burns was involved with Tony Robbins romantically . LMAO

Well Burns calling out a member to go join the local Police department. While perpetrating like he is the greatest warrior to ever come out of DOA (Department of Arirforce). the Years 2003 through 2010 were the years we were involved in Iraq. The Army was hurting for bodies, so where was Burns when his country needed him the most from 2004-2009?? Now he hangs out with retired Army operators he thinks he has the ultimate street cred.

What agency do you work for?

He doesn't, he sits in Casper trying to use his "connections" in the Special operation community to sell his overpriced AR's.

It sure sounds like you gladly would have taken on the job of judge, jury, and executioner.

You ability to to laugh out loud at this horrfic incidence is a bit strange, in a bad way.

Your reluctance to join a PD and pin on a badge and buckle up some armour is telling while you spout off behind you keyboard.

He made a call, he didn't have the shot and didn't take a risky shot.

Post the transcript between the guy you are second guessing and his chain of command.

You're a weak puzzy bitch posting behind your keyboard second guessing a single cop on what would have been quite litterally one of the best shots ever in the history of Law Enforcement.

I wish he would have taken and made that shot, but it would have been a thing of legend. I don't expect LE to be legendary on all engagements.

Casper?

Get real dumbazz.

2008?

Your ability to rationalize your own leveraging of the tragedy while throwing shade on others is nothing less than astounding.

Travis,

Watched the entire video. Infuriating. I was naïve to how [bleep] up things could be.

Post your hand wringer whiner bullschitt some place any one cares, schitt bird.

You and and your Lil Pack mates came at me and I stuffed your bullschitt right down your whining throats until you choked.

Whimpering at this point is just pathetic.

But it's the only play you have.

What’s the latest consensus on this thread?

Lol

🦫

Oh my bad Rock Springs.. what was your rank in the airforce? On a podcast it has you as Air Force POL specialist John Burns. I did not know that’s an actual rank in the airforce.

That is some RUGGED 2-track.

Yep too chicken chit to join the good fight in 04,05,06,07,08 ..but you will sit in Laramie telling people to go join the local PD.

Lots of well thought out commentary and on how a single armed citizen might handle a high stress school shooter situation.

You did well here, Beav.

What podcast would dare call me a POL specialist.

Sweet!

😝🦫

Not really but I do understand how some might think it is RUGGED. You will be Okay just follow me and don't fall off the mule.

why are you so red Burns?

It's gentic dude.

Same reason some might say I am bit short for my weight. Can't just grow taller.

Wyoming Governor doing some buisness.

Look at me, look at me!

Burns never met a name bigger than John who he didn’t drop?

LOL, sure you did, keep telling yourself that Dorothy. It was a chump move to use Uvalde to pimp yourself and nothing you can say will change that.

Just another thread where you showed your ass. Apparently you can't keep it hidden for more than a day or two, it's who you are.

Holy macaroni!

Johnny Gin Blossoms had a busy little Saturday, didn't she?

LOL

Another thread selfishly whored out.

Well, Johnny Gin Blossoms...

The main problem I see with that individual not taking a shot is less a weapons or tactics issue, and more having a strong working knowledge of the 4th Amendment and how it applies to arrest and application of force. That has to be the building block on which everything else is built when you are training law enforcement in the United States. Personnel will never confidently engage with any technique or tool he has been given if he does not understand their capabilities, and more importantly, when they are to be used.

I can assure you anyone requesting permission to use deadly force on the net, has no fugking knowledge, and as a result has no fugking confidence, to use any technique or tool he may have been given that day.

As far as instructors ensuring students fully understand the effect a variety of ammunition will have on a variety of cover and concealment, yes. That is something that I teach and something that needs to be taught to law enforcement personnel. It's important.

Lol, fugging little name dropper isn't he.

Gin Blossoms Burns,

I understand Mike G has to have a certain level of tact when addressing the situation in the manner he did and I believe that's why he hit the pause button and made an addendum concerning the agents that entered the room. That's the addendum that details your being a lying POS at the 5:20 mark in case you forgot why you frantically posted for the past 20 hours straight. LOL

I think most any first responder that has responded to an "all hands on deck" situation knows that cops talk. And standing around there for that amount of time and nobody mentioning that he had already expended a whole lot of rounds is very, very, very hard to believe.

And they were on scene when the four shots were fired at 12:21. That's in the ALERRT timeline that I'm sure you still haven't read because you don't really give a fugk or want to help resolve any issues in your own backyard, you just want to post pictures of your fat fugking head on top of a donkey.

Drama. Negative discourse with no winner.

These posts by Gin Blossom and rcjizzguzzlia are a perfect example of just how self-absorbed the two are.

19 children slaughtered. A detailed timeline by an irrefutably reputable organization is released, and all these two fugk-tards can talk about is how good they are at shooting fake birds and that a super bad ass good friend once told him he shot a pistol kinda sort of well.

LOL

I'd love to meet the women that sleep with these idiots. LOL

When a cop in that position calls his boss so that his boss can make a shoot/don’t shoot decision for him, he needs to look for a new profession. That’s his job. I would have made my decision independently.

What makes you think there aren't any experts in law enforcement tactics posting on here?

I can think of four without batting an eye. There are likely more.

You and Burns, ain't one of 'em.

LOL

It really eats Burns up to be called out for being a nothing.

LOL

It's tough to read and view but I appreciate anyone taking the time to do so.

This is something a lot of people don't want to hear but it's true.

So soft armor and helmet sanitizer boy knew there was going to be some serious stuffing of wounds taking place, and triage was being set up in a hallway, but the guys "Scott" trained had no knowledge of the situation.

You're really killing it, Johnny.

LOL

Dumb fugking hick.

Oh my fugking Christ.

LMFAO

79S is referencing the timeline he was deployed to the middle east serving his country.

And your reply is a string of fugking ponies in butt fugk nowhere.

LOL

What a fugking idiot.

I think we all were.

Unreal.

Yeah, it's called three generations of alcoholism.

LOL

Here's to hoping Santa brings you a new head for Christmas.

LOL

Haha. Come on Flave. He’s just a boy. Take it easy on him.

I'm sure Kyle Lamb will make him a mojito while Mike Glover massages his feet.

Sweet baby haysoos Butterball, I have certain level of respect for your willingness to parade your stupidity around like a badge of honor. I was laughing at you. I was not criticizing the officer for not taking the shot, and I have been crystal goddam clear about that from the onset. I am retired law enforcement (Coast Guard) where I served as a Judgmental Pistol Course (shoot/don't shoot instructor) and I served as a reserve deputy with Harrison CountyMississippi County Sheriff's Department. I have been to two LE academies. I would still be serving if I hadn't slaughtered my shoulder. I have seen you brag about damn near everything but your time behind the badge. Why don't you take a moment to tell us about it?

Backing up to shoot/don't shoot. That decision was the officer's. It does not lie with the supervisor. I'll explain why. The supervisor wasn't there. Crazy tactical concept huh? For Burns and the rest of you not familiar with Law Enforcment 101. Every officer is trained and empowered to make shoot/don't shoot decisions on their own. It is one of the most fundamental principles of LE. As I wrote earlier, my criticism is not of the officer passing on the shot. It is of him seeking permission from his supervisor. Hint, there's a reason the experts highlighted this in their timeline.

You'll note that I have abstained from commenting on specific tactics inside the building, other than inaction of course. The reason for that, is that I haven't been trained in that tactical scenario.

John, I want to spend a little more time making something clear, since you struggle with reading comprehension. You are painfully [bleep] dumb. It's a severe case too. You dare to call into question the service, or lack thereof of others, when you yourself have never served in an enforcement capacity. That's why you cling to your acquaintances accomplishments as if they are your own. I'll let you in on a little secret. They laugh at you behind your back. Don't take that too personally though. It's pretty common for cops to laugh at wannabe groupees.

'Flave. Thanks for posting the Mike Glover videos.

Yes, thanks for posting this, to bad Burnzy opened his yap and tried to highjack another important discussion.

Thanks again for information Flave. Between, Jag, Burns, HC etc just about every good thread gets sidetracked and not for the better.

It’ll be a tragedy if Arredondo doesn’t resign.

Amazin similarities, in the posts of tater head and Elky.

Not suggestin they're the same person, just the same DSM-III diagnosis.

FIXT

And i didnt say FIRED.

Between Flave's post of the Mike Glover interview and the footage of the Uvalde PD from inside the school, there's no confusion about what happened. All those cawps need to resign or be fired. For the town of Uvalde to continue to support them and their pinchins would be a disgrace and dishonor to those who died.

The reason they protect each other is because like most small schit hole towns in America, they're all a buncha cousin fugkers.

Anything for my cyber-friends.

Well, most anything...

I can attest that he'll go as far as tossing salad.

What Paul fails to mention is he had me use a gardener's trowel.

LOL

Some more incompetence from the great town of Uvalde...

Uvalde officials presented Texas DPS with a document labeled 'narrative' days after the school shooting. It said because police had 'zero hesitation' and 'moved directly toward the gunfire' they saved over 500 lives.

Another section of the document called the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District police force and Uvalde Police Department officers "heroes."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/u...mp;cvid=bcc5ef7f2f944398ad06f66ffcd29a96

Uvalde school police Chief Pete Arredondo was clearly a dismal failure in his role as incident commander.

But the overwhelming majority of responders were federal and state law enforcement. There were 149 U.S. Border Patrol there, and there were 91 state police there. And their responsibilities include responding to “mass attacks in public places.” There were also responders there from county law enforcement, U.S. Marshals, and federal DEA.

There was clearly a dismal failure and inaction of state and federal law enforcement responders as well.

Likely a lotta ‘tactical training’ collectively among the well over 300 law enforcement responders…heck, even among the first dozen or so on the scene…in addition to some pretty good competitive shooters and a lotta “real world experience”.

I was kinda wondering when everyone was gonna get around to the actual head count.

Clues.

Strong work, jag.

Oh my.

Thanks. Can i get drunk now?

Does the Bilderburgs have a symbol?

Then I’ll say...Hmmm 🤔

🦫

You aren’t?

Yes.

We don't want you getting sick.

How has the FBI not raided your house is beyond, you are literally the kookiest sob in Texas. Now the free masons are in on it ph uck..

Thanks, Prayers answered.

Its not me, i just pass the info along. Trying to bring enlightenment.

And all you dumbschitts braggin up how you would have burned that guy down with out PIDing him as the shooter would have killed a school coach and maybe a few kids in the background.

Congratulations, warrior.

ID of a weapon is a prerequisite.

If not, it should be.