Last month there was a thread in the handguns section called "Summer Carry".
It started out as the typical "what pocket gun do you carry in the hot weather" type thread.
I answered with the following post:
What gun is the minimum you are willing to get into a gunfight against one or possibly two armed bad guys with? Armed as in both have at minimum, handguns. Are you willing to get into that gunfight, which is a fight to the death, (them or you) with a Kahr that holds 7 rounds of .380?
For me, I know what my choices are. Each has to decide. Personally, I don't own any of the micro guns, that hold a very small amount of rounds, as I don't want to fall into the habit of grabbing what is comfortable, rather than what will actually get the job done. My only exception is a J Frame, and it is relegated to BUG role, and on exceedingly rare occasions a primary, but pretty much 99+% of the time I carry a gun I am willing to actually fight with and can turn in a good performance while using.
I posted again showing what I had chosen to carry that day, which was my Glock 22, .40 S&W a reload and a knife.
One of the more condescending members (Wrapids) stated:
"None of my friends in central Wisconsin feel a need to carry a gun."
Then followed up afterwards by telling one of our other members that since they carried a gun and ammo, with this post:
"Sounds like you should leave a war zone"
I posted a few days later that I was packing the following, showing this picture:
To which Wrapids replied:
"You oughtta leave a war zone."
Here is the thing.
I RARELY comment about much of the stuff that goes on and try to stay out of it for the most part.
That said. This condescending liberal attitude is exactly why we just ended up with 18 people dead and 13 more wounded. Over 30 people total, plus all their families. Kids, spouses, parents, all the people who cared for them.
NOBODY SHOT BACK.
When the fight started, nobody took the fight to the enemy. Nobody stood their ground and put rounds into the bad guy.
NOBODY.
So Wrapids, maybe you should feel the need to carry a gun, because NOBODY is coming to save you.
It is up to individuals to protect themselves. It is not the job of the government, or the nanny state. You are responsible for your own protection and those you care for who are unable to protect themselves.
You and NOBODY ELSE.
Your typical liberal won't fight his own fight, but he sure will call the police and have someone else do it. He is too scared to do the job himself, but not too scared to put someone else at risk. Pathetic.
Back on point,
You don't get to pick and choose when these things are going to happen or where. They are like a gift from a stranger. You have to unwrap it and deal with it, no matter what it is. Odds are that the situation will not be in your favor as the bad guy(s) will have planned it that way. So deal with it.
That is why you carry a gun you are willing to get into a fight with, and actually be prepared to fight.
Just one person with a gun and some skills could have made a difference and changed the outcome drastically.
Think about Eli Dickens.
The 22 year old young man who stopped what would have been a massacre in a shopping mall. He did so by carrying a gun daily and practicing. When the time came, he did not run, he took the fight to the enemy and stopped a massacre before really got going.
I drew a 365xl out of my pocket and drilled my dog before I could tell Young Richard to cover his ears.
That was at 30 yards and moving out.....
Me and that dog was both surprised.
Shooting a little dog (especially your own as it is moving away from you) is in no way like being in a fight. And what could posses a man to take a 30 yard shot on his own dog with a handgun? Was there an imminent threat?
Last month there was a thread in the handguns section called "Summer Carry".
It started out as the typical "what pocket gun do you carry in the hot weather" type thread.
I answered with the following post:
What gun is the minimum you are willing to get into a gunfight against one or possibly two armed bad guys with? Armed as in both have at minimum, handguns. Are you willing to get into that gunfight, which is a fight to the death, (them or you) with a Kahr that holds 7 rounds of .380?
For me, I know what my choices are. Each has to decide. Personally, I don't own any of the micro guns, that hold a very small amount of rounds, as I don't want to fall into the habit of grabbing what is comfortable, rather than what will actually get the job done. My only exception is a J Frame, and it is relegated to BUG role, and on exceedingly rare occasions a primary, but pretty much 99+% of the time I carry a gun I am willing to actually fight with and can turn in a good performance while using.
I posted again showing what I had chosen to carry that day, which was my Glock 22, .40 S&W a reload and a knife.
One of the more condescending members (Wrapids) stated:
"None of my friends in central Wisconsin feel a need to carry a gun."
Then followed up afterwards by telling one of our other members that since they carried a gun and ammo, with this post:
"Sounds like you should leave a war zone"
I posted a few days later that I was packing the following, showing this picture:
To which Wrapids replied:
"You oughtta leave a war zone."
Here is the thing.
I RARELY comment about much of the stuff that goes on and try to stay out of it for the most part.
That said. This condescending liberal attitude is exactly why we just ended up with 18 people dead and 13 more wounded. Over 30 people total, plus all their families. Kids, spouses, parents, all the people who cared for them.
NOBODY SHOT BACK.
When the fight started, nobody took the fight to the enemy. Nobody stood their ground and put rounds into the bad guy.
NOBODY.
So Wrapids, maybe you should feel the need to carry a gun, because NOBODY is coming to save you.
It is up to individuals to protect themselves. It is not the job of the government, or the nanny state. You are responsible for your own protection and those you care for who are unable to protect themselves.
You and NOBODY ELSE.
Your typical liberal won't fight his own fight, but he sure will call the police and have someone else do it. He is too scared to do the job himself, but not too scared to put someone else at risk. Pathetic.
Back on point,
You don't get to pick and choose when these things are going to happen or where. They are like a gift from a stranger. You have to unwrap it and deal with it, no matter what it is. Odds are that the situation will not be in your favor as the bad guy(s) will have planned it that way. So deal with it.
That is why you carry a gun you are willing to get into a fight with, and actually be prepared to fight.
Just one person with a gun and some skills could have made a difference and changed the outcome drastically.
Think about Eli Dickens.
The 22 year old young man who stopped what would have been a massacre in a shopping mall. He did so by carrying a gun daily and practicing. When the time came, he did not run, he took the fight to the enemy and stopped a massacre before really got going.
I drew a 365xl out of my pocket and drilled my dog before I could tell Young Richard to cover his ears.
That was at 30 yards and moving out.....
Me and that dog was both surprised.
Shooting a little dog (especially your own as it is moving away from you) is in no way like being in a fight. And what could posses a man to take a 30 yard shot on his own dog with a handgun? Was there an imminent threat?
I drew a 365xl out of my pocket and drilled my dog before I could tell Young Richard to cover his ears.
That was at 30 yards and moving out.....
Me and that dog was both surprised.
Shooting a little dog (especially your own as it is moving away from you) is in no way like being in a fight. And what could posses a man to take a 30 yard shot on his own dog with a handgun? Was there an imminent threat?
Burns was tangled in his adult diaper and very vulnerable.
Frankly my backhoe was broke down and I couldn't afford to dig a hole big enough to bury him.
I am bad about just grabbing a pocket revolver when dressed as the slut that I am in the summer. Ruger LCR .38 Special +P, to be exact. OP’s point is well taken.
I carry a Springfield Champion Operator or a Glock 23 when I have a long sleeve shirt or coat on but really need to stop just grabbing that LCR in summer. Sometimes I carry both the LCR and one of the others….and am right now as a matter of fact.
I posted this before in another thread, regarding Maine's Concealed Carry laws. A Maine man or woman can carry a handgun concealed without a permit/license. If anyone were carrying, he/she did not shoot back.
Wrapids is a Liberal POS, none of this should surprise anyone. Liberals are only interested in themselves they have no interest in anyone else. Probably a good thing as they would just get in the way of real men taking care of business.
Here's one of his more colorful mentions.
Originally Posted by Wrapids
[bleep] trump, all that needs be said
You're right Mac, You should carry what you're good with not how well it goes with your outfit.
I drew a 365xl out of my pocket and drilled my dog before I could tell Young Richard to cover his ears.
That was at 30 yards and moving out.....
Me and that dog was both surprised.
Shooting a little dog (especially your own as it is moving away from you) is in no way like being in a fight. And what could posses a man to take a 30 yard shot on his own dog with a handgun? Was there an imminent threat?
Burns was tangled in his adult diaper and very vulnerable.
Frankly my backhoe was broke down and I couldn't afford to dig a hole big enough to bury him.
I could give a chit less about Burns. I’m curious why you needed to shoot your dog at 30 yards with a small pistol while it ran away from you.
Totally agree. Been packing a G17 for almost thirty years, no matter weather or circumstances. I can make cranial hits with that gun out to 25 yards once per second or less, depending on recent training frequency. Between the gun and spare mag, I have 35 rounds to accomplish the task. If I think I may need the gun, I carry two spare mags. The blade is an ESEE3, as I don’t like or trust folders for much. Backup for the Glock is a Ruger Sp101 .357. If you need a gun, you need a gun. Not some watered down facsimile of a weapon that only does the job if the threat is what you expected, when you expected, and how you expected.
We castigate dealers for trying to sell women guns less capable because of their perceived weakness, and then sit around discussing our pocket pistols and why we don't need anything more.
The original post is illogical from the standpoint of life experience and goes against everything the OP is trying to make a point against.
EVERYONE KNOWS MURPHY’s LAW WILL DICTATE THE SCAT WILL GO DOWN THAT 1% of the time you carry that JFrame as a “primary”!
Thus negating all of the verbal diarrhea up until the jframe was mentioned AS “primary”. What a long winded post of Bovine Scat just to show whats on his Batman utility belt.
I drew a 365xl out of my pocket and drilled my dog before I could tell Young Richard to cover his ears.
That was at 30 yards and moving out.....
Me and that dog was both surprised.
Shooting a little dog (especially your own as it is moving away from you) is in no way like being in a fight. And what could posses a man to take a 30 yard shot on his own dog with a handgun? Was there an imminent threat?
Burns was tangled in his adult diaper and very vulnerable.
Frankly my backhoe was broke down and I couldn't afford to dig a hole big enough to bury him.
I could give a chit less about Burns. I’m curious why you needed to shoot your dog at 30 yards with a small pistol while it ran away from you.
I am bad about just grabbing a pocket revolver when dressed as the slut that I am in the summer. Ruger LCR .38 Special +P, to be exact. OP’s point is well taken.
I carry a Springfield Champion Operator or a Glock 23 when I have a long sleeve shirt or coat on but really need to stop just grabbing that LCR in summer. Sometimes I carry both the LCR and one of the others….and am right now as a matter of fact.
If there’s one thing I don’t need, it’s having a pistol in my pants that’s bigger than my “gun”.
I drew a 365xl out of my pocket and drilled my dog before I could tell Young Richard to cover his ears.
That was at 30 yards and moving out.....
Me and that dog was both surprised.
Shooting a little dog (especially your own as it is moving away from you) is in no way like being in a fight. And what could posses a man to take a 30 yard shot on his own dog with a handgun? Was there an imminent threat?
Burns was tangled in his adult diaper and very vulnerable.
Frankly my backhoe was broke down and I couldn't afford to dig a hole big enough to bury him.
I could give a chit less about Burns. I’m curious why you needed to shoot your dog at 30 yards with a small pistol while it ran away from you.
It wouldn't bring back the frisbee.
I was expecting you to say it wouldn’t come when you called it.
Last month there was a thread in the handguns section called "Summer Carry".
It started out as the typical "what pocket gun do you carry in the hot weather" type thread.
I answered with the following post:
What gun is the minimum you are willing to get into a gunfight against one or possibly two armed bad guys with? Armed as in both have at minimum, handguns. Are you willing to get into that gunfight, which is a fight to the death, (them or you) with a Kahr that holds 7 rounds of .380?
For me, I know what my choices are. Each has to decide. Personally, I don't own any of the micro guns, that hold a very small amount of rounds, as I don't want to fall into the habit of grabbing what is comfortable, rather than what will actually get the job done. My only exception is a J Frame, and it is relegated to BUG role, and on exceedingly rare occasions a primary, but pretty much 99+% of the time I carry a gun I am willing to actually fight with and can turn in a good performance while using.
I posted again showing what I had chosen to carry that day, which was my Glock 22, .40 S&W a reload and a knife.
One of the more condescending members (Wrapids) stated:
"None of my friends in central Wisconsin feel a need to carry a gun."
Then followed up afterwards by telling one of our other members that since they carried a gun and ammo, with this post:
"Sounds like you should leave a war zone"
I posted a few days later that I was packing the following, showing this picture:
To which Wrapids replied:
"You oughtta leave a war zone."
Here is the thing.
I RARELY comment about much of the stuff that goes on and try to stay out of it for the most part.
That said. This condescending liberal attitude is exactly why we just ended up with 18 people dead and 13 more wounded. Over 30 people total, plus all their families. Kids, spouses, parents, all the people who cared for them.
NOBODY SHOT BACK.
When the fight started, nobody took the fight to the enemy. Nobody stood their ground and put rounds into the bad guy.
NOBODY.
So Wrapids, maybe you should feel the need to carry a gun, because NOBODY is coming to save you.
It is up to individuals to protect themselves. It is not the job of the government, or the nanny state. You are responsible for your own protection and those you care for who are unable to protect themselves.
You and NOBODY ELSE.
Your typical liberal won't fight his own fight, but he sure will call the police and have someone else do it. He is too scared to do the job himself, but not too scared to put someone else at risk. Pathetic.
Back on point,
You don't get to pick and choose when these things are going to happen or where. They are like a gift from a stranger. You have to unwrap it and deal with it, no matter what it is. Odds are that the situation will not be in your favor as the bad guy(s) will have planned it that way. So deal with it.
That is why you carry a gun you are willing to get into a fight with, and actually be prepared to fight.
Just one person with a gun and some skills could have made a difference and changed the outcome drastically.
Think about Eli Dickens.
The 22 year old young man who stopped what would have been a massacre in a shopping mall. He did so by carrying a gun daily and practicing. When the time came, he did not run, he took the fight to the enemy and stopped a massacre before really got going.
The original post is illogical from the standpoint of life experience and goes against everything the OP is trying to make a point against.
EVERYONE KNOWS MURPHY’s LAW WILL DICTATE THE SCAT WILL GO DOWN THAT 1% of the time you carry that JFrame as a “primary”!
Thus negating all of the verbal diarrhea up until the jframe was mentioned AS “primary”. What a long winded post of Bovine Scat just to show whats on his Batman utility belt.
Last month there was a thread in the handguns section called "Summer Carry".
It started out as the typical "what pocket gun do you carry in the hot weather" type thread.
I answered with the following post:
What gun is the minimum you are willing to get into a gunfight against one or possibly two armed bad guys with? Armed as in both have at minimum, handguns. Are you willing to get into that gunfight, which is a fight to the death, (them or you) with a Kahr that holds 7 rounds of .380?
For me, I know what my choices are. Each has to decide. Personally, I don't own any of the micro guns, that hold a very small amount of rounds, as I don't want to fall into the habit of grabbing what is comfortable, rather than what will actually get the job done. My only exception is a J Frame, and it is relegated to BUG role, and on exceedingly rare occasions a primary, but pretty much 99+% of the time I carry a gun I am willing to actually fight with and can turn in a good performance while using.
I posted again showing what I had chosen to carry that day, which was my Glock 22, .40 S&W a reload and a knife.
One of the more condescending members (Wrapids) stated:
"None of my friends in central Wisconsin feel a need to carry a gun."
Then followed up afterwards by telling one of our other members that since they carried a gun and ammo, with this post:
"Sounds like you should leave a war zone"
I posted a few days later that I was packing the following, showing this picture:
To which Wrapids replied:
"You oughtta leave a war zone."
Here is the thing.
I RARELY comment about much of the stuff that goes on and try to stay out of it for the most part.
That said. This condescending liberal attitude is exactly why we just ended up with 18 people dead and 13 more wounded. Over 30 people total, plus all their families. Kids, spouses, parents, all the people who cared for them.
NOBODY SHOT BACK.
When the fight started, nobody took the fight to the enemy. Nobody stood their ground and put rounds into the bad guy.
NOBODY.
So Wrapids, maybe you should feel the need to carry a gun, because NOBODY is coming to save you.
It is up to individuals to protect themselves. It is not the job of the government, or the nanny state. You are responsible for your own protection and those you care for who are unable to protect themselves.
You and NOBODY ELSE.
Your typical liberal won't fight his own fight, but he sure will call the police and have someone else do it. He is too scared to do the job himself, but not too scared to put someone else at risk. Pathetic.
Back on point,
You don't get to pick and choose when these things are going to happen or where. They are like a gift from a stranger. You have to unwrap it and deal with it, no matter what it is. Odds are that the situation will not be in your favor as the bad guy(s) will have planned it that way. So deal with it.
That is why you carry a gun you are willing to get into a fight with, and actually be prepared to fight.
Just one person with a gun and some skills could have made a difference and changed the outcome drastically.
Think about Eli Dickens.
The 22 year old young man who stopped what would have been a massacre in a shopping mall. He did so by carrying a gun daily and practicing. When the time came, he did not run, he took the fight to the enemy and stopped a massacre before really got going.
This is The Way.
Who was it that said after living through a gunfight “I wish I had brought a smaller gun”. Oh yeah, it was NOBODY. Thanks for the friendly lecture. I hope it has legs.
The original post is illogical from the standpoint of life experience and goes against everything the OP is trying to make a point against.
EVERYONE KNOWS MURPHY’s LAW WILL DICTATE THE SCAT WILL GO DOWN THAT 1% of the time you carry that JFrame as a “primary”!
Thus negating all of the verbal diarrhea up until the jframe was mentioned AS “primary”. What a long winded post of Bovine Scat just to show whats on his Batman utility belt.
I drew a 365xl out of my pocket and drilled my dog before I could tell Young Richard to cover his ears. That was at 30 yards and moving out..... Me and that dog was both surprised.
Shooting a little dog (especially your own as it is moving away from you) is in no way like being in a fight. And what could posses a man to take a 30 yard shot on his own dog with a handgun? Was there an imminent threat?
Burns was tangled in his adult diaper and very vulnerable.
Frankly my backhoe was broke down and I couldn't afford to dig a hole big enough to bury him.
Originally Posted by Jeffrey
I could give a chit less about Burns. I’m curious why you needed to shoot your dog at 30 yards with a small pistol while it ran away from you.
The bolded seem a bit harsh but as I said Jimmy is not right in the head.
Sort of like George in John Steinbeck's "Of Mice and Men".
If it was slow, then you lose cookie points for blasting your dog at 30 long paces with a pocket gun. Besides, shooting retarded dogs is especially fugged.
It's my wallet. Sold as "dive wallets" really they are just little waterproof plastic cases, they comes in various sizes. This one is just big enough for credit cards, driver's license and such. Been using them for years, and they work slick.
Not boosted or jabbed at all here Loco but also know the OP has been in a gunfight or 2 in his life! He is also a skilled shooter with his J frame and could most likely put more hits on target in a real world scenario with the initial cylinder than many could with a 15rd glock 9mm.
That being said my MINIMUM carry is a Ruger LCP with a 7rd mag of hardcast with a JHP in the chamber and a spare 7rd mag in another pocket. This is reserved for deep concealment pocket carry for locations where carry isnt "allowed". I practice quite alot with this pistol and pocket draw and can make hits. Other than that my smallest carry gun is a Sig P365 12+1 with a spare 15rd mag. Others routinely carried are a G19 15+1 and spare mag or G30S 10+1 with 13rd backup mag. I shoot alot of rounds through these guns and routinely practice from the draw with my normal carry holsters.
I find no honor in not defending oneself, but more disturbing is the unwilling to defend others who may be defenseless.
You want to be a hero go ahead, but my family depends on me..... they and myself are MY responsibility and once safe It's everyone else's turn to protect themselves. If everyone took responsibility for them and their's , the bad guy wouldn't stand a chance.
I ain't gonna pretend and try to play swat tactical operator and put myself or my family in danger just cause some sheep have grown to depend on the cops for their saftey.
I find no honor in not defending oneself, but more disturbing is the unwilling to defend others who may be defenseless.
You want to be a hero go ahead, but my family depends on me..... they and myself are MY responsibility and once safe It's everyone else's turn to protect themselves. If everyone took responsibility for them and their's , the bad guy wouldn't stand a chance.
I ain't gonna pretend and try to play swat tactical operator and put myself or my family in danger just cause some sheep have grown to depend on the cops for their saftey.
Damn... it is hard to have a serious discussion on the Fire.
No it isn't, and this thread opened my eyes. I'm looking for heavier throwing rocks.
I was feeling undergunned considerably, carrying my little Ruger LCP 380, but I had to consider recent rapid onset physical limitations. I went up a step to the EC9, not a big step, however.
I mostly agree with the OP but situations, gender, age and size play some role. A woman carrying a gun, almost any reliable gun to prevent a sexual assault against a man that may be unarmed or armed with just a knife and relying solely on being stronger than her is different than the reasons a healthy man would carry.
I’m 6’3” and still reasonably young and fit. I’m unlikely to be involved in a justifiable shooting against an unarmed lone individual. In the unlikely scenario that I needed to use a gun it’s likely going to be against an armed with a gun individual, or individuals as the OP described and in that circumstance I want a decent sized gun with mag capacity.
I mostly agree with the OP but situations gender, age and size play some role. A woman carrying a gun, almost any reliable gun to prevent a sexual assault against a man that may be unarmed or armed with just a knife and relying solely on being stronger than her is different than the reasons a healthy man would carry.
I’m 6’3” and reasonably young and fit. I’m unlikely to be involved in a justifiable shooting against an unarmed loan individual. In the unlikely scenario that I needed to use a gun it’s likely going to be against an armed with a gun individual, or individuals as the OP described and in that circumstance I want a decent sized gun with mag capacity.
I mostly agree with the OP but situations gender, age and size play some role. A woman carrying a gun, almost any reliable gun to prevent a sexual assault against a man that may be unarmed or armed with just a knife and relying solely on being stronger than her is different than the reasons a healthy man would carry.
I’m 6’3” and reasonably young and fit. I’m unlikely to be involved in a justifiable shooting against an unarmed loan individual. In the unlikely scenario that I needed to use a gun it’s likely going to be against an armed with a gun individual, or individuals as the OP described and in that circumstance I want a decent sized gun with mag capacity.
One is none.
True.
I should reconsider going Massad Ayoob and wearing a camera vest loaded up with three guns, a half dozen mags, two flashlights, pepper spray and a few sandwiches😜
I mostly agree with the OP but situations gender, age and size play some role. A woman carrying a gun, almost any reliable gun to prevent a sexual assault against a man that may be unarmed or armed with just a knife and relying solely on being stronger than her is different than the reasons a healthy man would carry.
I’m 6’3” and reasonably young and fit. I’m unlikely to be involved in a justifiable shooting against an unarmed loan individual. In the unlikely scenario that I needed to use a gun it’s likely going to be against an armed with a gun individual, or individuals as the OP described and in that circumstance I want a decent sized gun with mag capacity.
One is none.
True.
I should reconsider going Massad Ayoob and wearing a camera vest loaded up with three guns, a half dozen mags, two flashlights, pepper spray and a few sandwiches😜
I mostly agree with the OP but situations, gender, age and size play some role. A woman carrying a gun, almost any reliable gun to prevent a sexual assault against a man that may be unarmed or armed with just a knife and relying solely on being stronger than her is different than the reasons a healthy man would carry.
I’m 6’3” and still reasonably young and fit. I’m unlikely to be involved in a justifiable shooting against an unarmed lone individual. In the unlikely scenario that I needed to use a gun it’s likely going to be against an armed with a gun individual, or individuals as the OP described and in that circumstance I want a decent sized gun with mag capacity.
A woman, young lady or whomever can choose to pack whatever is most appropriate for them. That point may have been lost. Having a gun that you can use and fight with is the point.
My oldest daughter, when she was not yet an adult started packing a 9mm Shield (gen 1 version). This was due to some events, as well as the fact that the local LE were completely apathetic in their response to a specific incident.
She was already a trained revolver shooter,
so getting her tuned up on a semi auto was not too tough. I told her that she was to protect herself as necessary and I would handle the rest.
In the case of the Lewiston shootings, even having just one female with a little Shield, or P365, or some other compact 9mm or .38 Special, and effectively employing it by putting at least one round into the guts or chest of the bad guy could have altered the whole course of the events.
He may not have died immediately from taking the hit to the guts or chest or wherever, but it may have made him decide that he did not want to do anything else.
One person can make a difference if they are willing to fight back.
Both courage and fear are contagious and I have seen both in action. You can have one person panic and start running, and the next thing you know everyone is panicking and doing the same. Courage works the same way.
People are generally just looking for direction. A leader. Once they see someone take charge and go after the enemy/a bad guy (or whatever the objective is) they too will become bold, all of the sudden, they are not as scared anymore and they will decide to take action as well.
So pack a gun, practice with it, develop your skill sets and be able to protect those you love and care for. Nobody else is going to do it for you.
If I knew I was going to be in a bowling alley that was going to be attacked by a guy with an AR10, and a handgun was the only option, I would bring my G40. However, I always have my Sig 938 in a Sticky Holster in my right pocket with a spare mag in the left. Just more convenient on a daily basis. Unless the attacker, unfortunately, was focused on me particularly from the start, I feel like I would have a high probability of giving him a CNS shot or more with that setup while he is blasting away. A long-barreled 10mm would be better, but, at close range, a short-barreled 9mm, that I always have with me, should be sufficient. I like the pocket carry, for me, because I can reach, draw, and fire very quickly without it appearing that I am reaching for a weapon. A bigger issue, to me, than the model of handgun I have (within reason), is whether I had the determination, and the speed and competence of action, to be calmly aggressive and put rounds in the right place, rather than seeking cover. I've programed myself mentally to do so, in the unlikely event I ever am in that scenario. I'm 55. I don't have that much longer to live, in the grand scheme, anyway.
A quality piece, way easy takedown and reassembly (unlike that tiny, easily lost assembly pin in the EC9). Double stack mag, way better sights than the EC9 but…….
…….it’s too heavy for a pocket, and a bit too wide.
I have the LC9, which is identical to the EC9 except with better sights. Ive been impressed, easy to shoot well for such a small handgun. With the single stack nine round mags it offers a 9+1 capacity in a narrow and flat package. However my experience has been that the nine round mags are prone to misfeeds. They use the same 7 round mag spring in the 9 rounders.
In the case of the Lewiston shootings, even having just one female with a little Shield, or P365, or some other compact 9mm or .38 Special, and effectively employing it by putting at least one round into the guts or chest of the bad guy could have altered the whole course of the events.
He may not have died immediately from taking the hit to the guts or chest or wherever, but it may have made him decide that he did not want to do anything else.
One person can make a difference if they are willing to fight back.
Both courage and fear are contagious and I have seen both in action. You can have one person panic and start running, and the next thing you know everyone is panicking and doing the same. Courage works the same way.
People are generally just looking for direction. A leader. Once they see someone take charge and go after the enemy/a bad guy (or whatever the objective is) they too will become bold, all of the sudden, they are not as scared anymore and they will decide to take action as well.
So pack a gun, practice with it, develop your skill sets and be able to protect those you love and care for. Nobody else is going to do it for you.
I haven't read the whole thread yet but besides the original OP, this is probably the best post regarding self defense and defense of others that I have ever seen.
Those of us that haven't been there do not know what we'll actually do.
I have been in plenty of physical fights and I can assure you 95% of them involved friends that were getting into it with someone and the "someones" buddies decided to join in.
I feel that mindset of protecting others would carry over to a gunfight but I'd be lying to myself by thinking that because one just doesn't know until it happens.
On one hand, I've trained in the martial arts so I feel confident enough to defend myself and others that may need it.
On the other hand, I have very little experience in hand gunning, so the confidence isn't there to know "exactly" what I would do.
I know for a fact, I wouldn't do nothing. If the shooter had his back to me, I'd probably tackle his ass before I would shoot him in the back. Again, I don't know.
Who really knows until you're there?
I'm starting to see the light...
If you are well trained, you will have the confidence to take the fight to them. If you are not well trained, you will either cower and run or be a victim yourself.
Mackay, you have opened my eyes and I need to train more with a self defense firearm.
Last month there was a thread in the handguns section called "Summer Carry".
It started out as the typical "what pocket gun do you carry in the hot weather" type thread.
I answered with the following post:
[i]What gun is the minimum you are willing to get into a gunfight against one or possibly two armed bad guys with? Armed as in both have at minimum, handguns. Are you willing to get into that gunfight, which is a fight to the death, (them or you) with a Kahr that holds 7 rounds of .380?
For me, I know what my choices are. Each has to decide. Personally, I don't own any of the micro guns, that hold a very small amount of rounds, as I don't want to fall into the habit of grabbing what is comfortable, rather than what will actually get the job done. My only exception is a J Frame, and it is relegated to BUG role, and on exceedingly rare occasions a primary, but pretty much 99+% of the time I carry a gun I am willing to actually fight with and can turn in a good performance while using.[/i
I posted again showing what I had chosen to carry that day, which was my Glock 22, .40 S&W a reload and a knife.
One of the more condescending members (Wrapids) stated:
"None of my friends in central Wisconsin feel a need to carry a gun."
Then followed up afterwards by telling one of our other members that since they carried a gun and ammo, with this post:
"Sounds like you should leave a war zone"
I posted a few days later that I was packing the following, showing this picture:
To which Wrapids replied:
"You oughtta leave a war zone."
Here is the thing.
I RARELY comment about much of the stuff that goes on and try to stay out of it for the most part.
That said. This condescending liberal attitude is exactly why we just ended up with 18 people dead and 13 more wounded. Over 30 people total, plus all their families. Kids, spouses, parents, all the people who cared for them.
NOBODY SHOT BACK.
When the fight started, nobody took the fight to the enemy. Nobody stood their ground and put rounds into the bad guy.
NOBODY.
So Wrapids, maybe you should feel the need to carry a gun, because NOBODY is coming to save you.
It is up to individuals to protect themselves. It is not the job of the government, or the nanny state. You are responsible for your own protection and those you care for who are unable to protect themselves.
You and NOBODY ELSE.
Your typical liberal won't fight his own fight, but he sure will call the police and have someone else do it. He is too scared to do the job himself, but not too scared to put someone else at risk. Pathetic.
Back on point,
You don't get to pick and choose when these things are going to happen or where. They are like a gift from a stranger. You have to unwrap it and deal with it, no matter what it is. Odds are that the situation will not be in your favor as the bad guy(s) will have planned it that way. So deal with it.
That is why you carry a gun you are willing to get into a fight with, and actually be prepared to fight.
Just one person with a gun and some skills could have made a difference and changed the outcome drastically.
Think about Eli Dickens.
The 22 year old young man who stopped what would have been a massacre in a shopping mall. He did so by carrying a gun daily and practicing. When the time came, he did not run, he took the fight to the enemy and stopped a massacre before really got going.
Those are good guns but in keeping with what Mackay is trying to convey, you need to ask if you can really fight with it.
In all likelihood that answer is no.
The 365XMacros on the other hand are a real beast. Full grip frame, excellent capacity, slimmer profile than a standard double stack and an abbreviated slide. The shorter slide is especially useful if you appendix carry. the reduced sight radius is not much of a factor these days because most everyone is running a dot.
When you reduce the size of your grip frame you're reducing the amount of contact you have with any pistol. This makes you shoot it less effectively than you would a full size. Regardless of skill level.
They also induce all sorts of problems with your draw from concealment. Think trying to grab two fingers instead of somebody's forearm/wrist. The same applies to reloads. Small (short) grip frames suck.
I could be wrong but I don't think I'm overstepping when I say these are some of the points Mackay is making when he says a "gun I can fight with."
OP, Excellent post. Too bad the message is getting squeezed out by the noise on this one. I rarely “carry” but pretty much live in or near my work truck and there’s always a Kimber 1911 with two loaded mags and a 25rd box of ammo in the console. I’ve had to pull it out a total of one time in a bad section of a rough little town. Slid one in the chamber and had it on my lap for a couple minutes and the issue resolved itself thankfully. Guessing when I parked at this job I’d interrupted a drug deal. I was extremely glad I didn’t have anything less.
I'm heading to church this morning carrying my M&P 2.0 9mm loaded with 115gr Silvertips. I have a spare 17 round mag. I know "it" can happen here like it did in Maine.
I'm heading to church this morning carrying my M&P 2.0 9mm loaded with 115gr Silvertips. I have a spare 17 round mag. I know "it" can happen here like it did in Maine.
They’ve probably improved them over the years but when I see 115 grain Silvertips I think FBI in Miami and 1986.
I am going through a debilitating round of Adhesive Capsulitis in my right shoulder. I can't use that arm to lift a handgun upward out of a belt holster, no matter the position. I can't reach across my body to access a handgun from a cross draw holster. All I can use is a front left pocket holster for a J Frame or a small semi auto. Not ideal by any stretch, but it is what it is.
I carry a Kershaw Blur in my right front pants pocket daily. I do not even consider it a weapon, it's my every day pocket knife. In my Left front pocket is a Gerber Pocket Clip Box Knife. Again not a weapon, I cut cardboard with it at work.
My everyday carry for the last few years has been a Glock 37.3 or 38.3. They replaced my G23.4 as my everyday carry which I still own. I recently installed a Holosun Chevron Sight on the G37.3. I had a couple new holsters made for the G37 with the Optical Sight installed. One an inside the waist band, the second an Askins Avenger style belt holster. I have been carrying it more than the G38.3 lately due to liking the optical sight. I really like the Holosun Sight. Normally I do not carry a spare magazine, which I probably should do daily. This changes on Sunday Morning. When in Church I do carry at a minimum a couple reloads. If wearing a vest/lite jacket I will carry a couple more magazines in the pockets. I do not expect trouble, but I was a Boy Scout, and believe in being prepared. I also shoot a Combat Match once a month with my carry handgun. Our Church Security Teem is just spooling up and getting organized officially. We plan to shoot once a month as a minimum to keep the Teem tuned up. I was in Law Enforcement for 20 years. I have a pretty good handle on response time. If I had a SERIOUS problem in the middle of the night, it would take at a minimum 30 minutes to get some one to my house, and very likely longer. If we had a problem at Church we might have some one respond in 10 to 15 minutes if the Deputy or Highway Patrol Officer was not on the other side of the County when they got the call. You are responsible for your own safety. If you do not carry every day, you will never be armed when you need to be.
My oldest daughter, when she was not yet an adult started packing a 9mm Shield (gen 1 version). This was due to some events, as well as the fact that the local LE were completely apathetic in their response to a specific incident.
She was already a trained revolver shooter,
so getting her tuned up on a semi auto was not too tough. I told her that she was to protect herself as necessary and I would handle the rest.
So pack a gun, practice with it, develop your skill sets and be able to protect those you love and care for. Nobody else is going to do it for you.
It's my wallet. Sold as "dive wallets" really they are just little waterproof plastic cases, they comes in various sizes. This one is just big enough for credit cards, driver's license and such. Been using them for years, and they work slick.
Appreciate the response, and agree with your thoughts on a fighting pistol. Also making sure our youth, especially the girls are taught how to properly handle weapons and carry whenever possible....it's a crazy world out there, and many time women are the first victims of crime.
Wrapids is a Liberal POS, none of this should surprise anyone. Liberals are only interested in themselves they have no interest in anyone else. Probably a good thing as they would just get in the way of real men taking care of business.
Here's one of his more colorful mentions.
Originally Posted by Wrapids
[bleep] trump, all that needs be said
You're right Mac, You should carry what you're good with not how well it goes with your outfit.
Besides the stupid comments he told Mackay that tells me everything I need to know about him. He's a mental midget.
Generally, in the last few years, my daily carry has been the Glock 26, which I think of as the service sized Glock in a small package. For me, it shoots pretty nearly like a 19 or 17, and holds 11 rounds with the flush mag. Conceals great under an untucked Polo Shirt, too.
Only on very rare occasions will I switch to either the Glock 42 in the same IWB holster (which, because of design and material, fits both perfectly) or a Sig P238 in a front pants pocket holster, and that's when even greater concealability (i.e., zero, or near zero, printing potential) is desired.
Last month there was a thread in the handguns section called "Summer Carry".
It started out as the typical "what pocket gun do you carry in the hot weather" type thread.
I answered with the following post:
What gun is the minimum you are willing to get into a gunfight against one or possibly two armed bad guys with? Armed as in both have at minimum, handguns. Are you willing to get into that gunfight, which is a fight to the death, (them or you) with a Kahr that holds 7 rounds of .380?
For me, I know what my choices are. Each has to decide. Personally, I don't own any of the micro guns, that hold a very small amount of rounds, as I don't want to fall into the habit of grabbing what is comfortable, rather than what will actually get the job done. My only exception is a J Frame, and it is relegated to BUG role, and on exceedingly rare occasions a primary, but pretty much 99+% of the time I carry a gun I am willing to actually fight with and can turn in a good performance while using.
I posted again showing what I had chosen to carry that day, which was my Glock 22, .40 S&W a reload and a knife.
One of the more condescending members (Wrapids) stated:
"None of my friends in central Wisconsin feel a need to carry a gun."
Then followed up afterwards by telling one of our other members that since they carried a gun and ammo, with this post:
"Sounds like you should leave a war zone"
I posted a few days later that I was packing the following, showing this picture:
To which Wrapids replied:
"You oughtta leave a war zone."
Here is the thing.
I RARELY comment about much of the stuff that goes on and try to stay out of it for the most part.
That said. This condescending liberal attitude is exactly why we just ended up with 18 people dead and 13 more wounded. Over 30 people total, plus all their families. Kids, spouses, parents, all the people who cared for them.
NOBODY SHOT BACK.
When the fight started, nobody took the fight to the enemy. Nobody stood their ground and put rounds into the bad guy.
NOBODY.
So Wrapids, maybe you should feel the need to carry a gun, because NOBODY is coming to save you.
It is up to individuals to protect themselves. It is not the job of the government, or the nanny state. You are responsible for your own protection and those you care for who are unable to protect themselves.
You and NOBODY ELSE.
Your typical liberal won't fight his own fight, but he sure will call the police and have someone else do it. He is too scared to do the job himself, but not too scared to put someone else at risk. Pathetic.
Back on point,
You don't get to pick and choose when these things are going to happen or where. They are like a gift from a stranger. You have to unwrap it and deal with it, no matter what it is. Odds are that the situation will not be in your favor as the bad guy(s) will have planned it that way. So deal with it.
That is why you carry a gun you are willing to get into a fight with, and actually be prepared to fight.
Just one person with a gun and some skills could have made a difference and changed the outcome drastically.
Think about Eli Dickens.
The 22 year old young man who stopped what would have been a massacre in a shopping mall. He did so by carrying a gun daily and practicing. When the time came, he did not run, he took the fight to the enemy and stopped a massacre before really got going.
Generally, in the last few years, my daily carry has been the Glock 26, which I think of as the service sized Glock in a small package. For me, it shoots pretty nearly like a 19 or 17, and holds 11 rounds with the flush mag.
Feel free to lie to yourself, just don't do it to everyone else.
i carry a little different its by season when its hot i carry a 9mm derringer and a folding knife because i wear shorts and a tank tops 4 - 5 months a year , rest of the time a SCCY piston in a 9 mm mostly ,sometimes my revolver in a 357 mag. but always have that derringer with too and a folding knife. stay safe and a great hunting season ,Pete53
i carry a little different its by season when its hot i carry a 9mm derringer and a folding knife because i wear shorts and a tank tops 4 - 5 months a year , rest of the time a SCCY piston in a 9 mm mostly ,sometimes my revolver in a 357 mag. but always have that derringer with too and a folding knife. stay safe and a great hunting season ,Pete53
This would imply that you can't wear a full size handgun in shorts and a tank top?
I am going through a debilitating round of Adhesive Capsulitis in my right shoulder. I can't use that arm to lift a handgun upward out of a belt holster, no matter the position. I can't reach across my body to access a handgun from a cross draw holster. All I can use is a front left pocket holster for a J Frame or a small semi auto. Not ideal by any stretch, but it is what it is.
Drawing weak hand from a belt holster> drawing weak hand from a pocket.
I mostly agree with the OP but situations gender, age and size play some role. A woman carrying a gun, almost any reliable gun to prevent a sexual assault against a man that may be unarmed or armed with just a knife and relying solely on being stronger than her is different than the reasons a healthy man would carry.
I’m 6’3” and reasonably young and fit. I’m unlikely to be involved in a justifiable shooting against an unarmed loan individual. In the unlikely scenario that I needed to use a gun it’s likely going to be against an armed with a gun individual, or individuals as the OP described and in that circumstance I want a decent sized gun with mag capacity.
One is none.
True.
I should reconsider going Massad Ayoob and wearing a camera vest loaded up with three guns, a half dozen mags, two flashlights, pepper spray and a few sandwiches😜
My ec9 works just fine birdwatcher. Carries in frt jean pocket fine too. Mb
My LC9 is the same gun with better sights. The problem I have had with it and every other compact semi-auto I have carried in a pocket is that once in a while the mag release button gets pressed during everyday carry. I haven’t heard anyone else complain about this, maybe it has something to do with me being left-handed/left front pocket.
I find no honor in not defending oneself, but more disturbing is the unwilling to defend others who may be defenseless.
You want to be a hero go ahead, but my family depends on me..... they and myself are MY responsibility and once safe It's everyone else's turn to protect themselves. If everyone took responsibility for them and their's , the bad guy wouldn't stand a chance.
I ain't gonna pretend and try to play swat tactical operator and put myself or my family in danger just cause some sheep have grown to depend on the cops for their saftey.
Paraphrasing Clint Smith on carrying the little guns concealable in your jogging shorts.
If you "know" you're going to be in a gunfight, that's the gun you bring? If I know I'm going to be in a gunfight, the gun I bring has wheels on it and you set it off by jerking on a string!
I drew a 365xl out of my pocket and drilled my dog before I could tell Young Richard to cover his ears.
That was at 30 yards and moving out.....
Me and that dog was both surprised.
Shooting a little dog (especially your own as it is moving away from you) is in no way like being in a fight. And what could posses a man to take a 30 yard shot on his own dog with a handgun? Was there an imminent threat?
Burns was tangled in his adult diaper and very vulnerable.
Frankly my backhoe was broke down and I couldn't afford to dig a hole big enough to bury him.
I could give a chit less about Burns. I’m curious why you needed to shoot your dog at 30 yards with a small pistol while it ran away from you.
It wouldn't bring back the frisbee.
Here I was thinking he squatted to pee. My Bad. Good shoot!
So for Mac or anyone else who can compare actual results in the field, do we go 9mm or 10mm Short.
Whichever you perform best with.
In my observation I have yet to see anyone shoot better with a harder recoiling gun, than one that kicks less.
If you put identical models such as a G17 9mm and G22 .40 in the hands of 10 people, and run them through a series of drills where a combination of speed and accuracy are tested, then pretty much every time the shooters will perform better with the softer recoiling 9mm G17.
That said, there may be other reasons a person chooses to carry a larger caliber such as a .40. For example, does the person have threats that are not strictly human? Do they intend to use the same gun as a trail gun? Do they work around large domestic animals such as cattle and horses. Cattle and horses kill far more people than all the various species of bears combined do each year in the United States. Do you have elk and moose where you live?
In one of the pictures I posted above it shows a Gen 3 Glock 22. That is loaded with a 170 grain poly coated SWC that does 1200 FPS. That is a smoking hot load for a .40 S&W. (Disclaimer. I produce and sell my own ammo) It actually equals some manufacturers 10mm loads when chronographed, but does it in a smaller framed gun.
It is also super accurate, which is one thing I never cared for in regards to .40s, as their accuracy was poor as compared to other service cartridges. This one took a long time to develop, but it is a tack driver. The point of the exercise was to have a very deep penetrating, very accurate load that would still fit in a standard frame. One that guys who did not want to buy a 10mm could carry, or 10mm frames were too big for their hands. That was the end result.
As it ended up, it was so accurate, I started carrying it more and more, and my 9mms have not gotten as much attention lately.
This was at 25 yards the other day:
And while doing the testing, over sandbags:
I have carried it a bunch this late spring, summer, and fall as it is simply a tack driver and I would have zero issue taking precise shots if needed.
Now with that said,
The 9mm.
If you live in a rather urban area and don't hike in places where large predators are much of a threat, then there is not much reason to go with anything other than a 9mm. They are the easiest to control, recoil wise, generally have the best capacity, and there are loads out there that will get the job done.
I keep a couple 9mms on hand in the house for home defense purposes.
Example is a G19 with a weapons light, as well as a flashlight (so you don't point a gun at things you should not by using the weapons light as a flashlight). The G19 has a factory Glock 24 round mag in it.
I have some +P 148 grain hardcast flatpoints in it. They are also a deep penetrating load. I figure that 24+1 should get me through just about any reasonable situation, w/o needing to reload. The 24 round mag is still a manageable size and not cumbersome, as compared to the crazy long 33 rd mags that are really not practical.
So in summary, if your only anticipated threat is human criminals, I would opt for a 9mm. If you use the gun for hiking and outdoors activities and may feel the need to protect yourself against larger animals, then a .40 may be a good choice.
Been saying the same forever, too, about not carrying mouse guns.
Also made the same comment about no one being armed or willing/able to take the guy down.
Where that happened clearly illustrates that something like that can happen anywhere in the country at anytime as all kinds of crazies are not confined to the big Metro areas nor are they all foreign radicals.
But many here will still not heed the advice.
When I posted on the subject, one guy even replied that if he carried, it was only to protect him & his, implying that in a situation like Maine, he would not engage.
I posted this before in another thread, regarding Maine's Concealed Carry laws. A Maine man or woman can carry a handgun concealed without a permit/license. If anyone were carrying, he/she did not shoot back.
As I understand the Maine CC laws, it is not legal to carry in an establishment that serves alcohol. That is what I read somewhere. Maybe that's not true.
I posted this before in another thread, regarding Maine's Concealed Carry laws. A Maine man or woman can carry a handgun concealed without a permit/license. If anyone were carrying, he/she did not shoot back.
As I understand the Maine CC laws, it is not legal to carry in an establishment that serves alcohol. That is what I read somewhere. Maybe that's not true.
It's legal to carry in establishments that serve alcohol unless posted to the contrary. Both of the alcohol serving locations were posted NO GUNS ALLOWED.
The cf still has a few actual SMEs who are willing to share their hard won experience. When this occurs the lightweights instantly show their asses by trying to rationalize their poor choices and refusal to accept reality.
Summer carry, a 1911 in my truck, I live in the sticks, pocket guns. etc,etc. Anyone who has put in the effort to become competent w/ a handgun in a self defense role has learned what actually works and recognizes and embraces the fact that shooting well is a perishable skill.
[quote=goalie][quote=deflave]Next up will be "I shoot better without an optic."
LOL
In their defense, people with schitty fundamentals can't even find the dot on the draw, so they probably do......
Some of us are color blind and struggle to see the dot period. Secondly to me a handgun is a close quarter gun or a gun to give some firepower cover( firing back)to allow me to get to my shotgun or ar
Some of us are color blind and struggle to see the dot period. Secondly to me a handgun is a close quarter gun or a gun to give some firepower cover( firing back)to allow me to get to my shotgun or ar
How does not knowing the color of the dot stop you from seeing the dot?
I drew a 365xl out of my pocket and drilled my dog before I could tell Young Richard to cover his ears.
That was at 30 yards and moving out.....
Me and that dog was both surprised.
Shooting a little dog (especially your own as it is moving away from you) is in no way like being in a fight. And what could posses a man to take a 30 yard shot on his own dog with a handgun? Was there an imminent threat?
Some of us are color blind and struggle to see the dot period. Secondly to me a handgun is a close quarter gun or a gun to give some firepower cover( firing back)to allow me to get to my shotgun or ar
Mr. Sagebrush or Flave, do either of you have any experience with the G23?
Yes.
Great gun but I have determined the 19/23 size guns are pointless. The supposed benefit of concealability is mostly moot IMO.
And unless you have some tiny dick beaters, you're giving up contact surface and hindering reloads with that size gun.
Having said that, I do own a 19 and a 23, but I keep them around as spares mostly.
Pretty much the same here. I don’t conceal a 19 as well as I want and have replaced it with the shield plus. 17/47 for for everything else. Won’t get rid of my 19 but I did my 23.
I've been known to carry this Para 16 38 super when wearing shorts and a T-shirt. It's not pretty but it works. It has been ground on to narrow the grip frame and the safety has been ground down to fit an IWB holster better, no grips just grip tape. Flave is right on the short grip pistols being awkward to draw, I'm using Glock 20 mags in my G29. I should have just gotten the G20.
[quote=goalie][quote=deflave]Next up will be "I shoot better without an optic."
LOL
In their defense, people with schitty fundamentals can't even find the dot on the draw, so they probably do......
Some of us are color blind and struggle to see the dot period. Secondly to me a handgun is a close quarter gun or a gun to give some firepower cover( firing back)to allow me to get to my shotgun or ar
Let's run a few scenerios and maybe you can help me understand how this works in the real world.
You're in the food court of a mall when a bad guy starts shooting people at the far end. Do you advance under cover and put shots on target, or head to your vehicle to get your long gun. Do you always have a long gun in your vehicle, or do you have to drive home to get your AR?
In the Florida nightclub shooting, all the exits were chained except the entrance. The gunman stood in the entrance shooting everyone as they tried to escape. In this scenerio, how does your handgun "buy you time to get to your long gun"? Do you travel with your long gun? Have it in the rental, and how are you getting past through the only exit to get to it?
"Fighting to another gun", is mostly BS. The vast majority of gunfights are won or lost with what you have on your or within reach when it kicks off.
Next up will be "I shoot better without an optic."
LOL
There are guys here who will argue for carrying their semi-auto with an empty chamber for safety. One guy on the handguns forum once let it slip he only carried five rounds in his S&W M10 double action revolver because he wanted the hammer down on an empty chamber. Sad...
There are guys here who will argue for carrying their semi-auto with an empty chamber for safety. One guy on the handguns forum once let it slip he only carried five rounds in his S&W M10 double action revolver because he wanted the hammer down on an empty chamber. Sad...
several years back I had a Glock 30 and a Kahr CW 45 . if I took my time concentrated on the trigger and took careful aim I would shoot tiger groups on paper with the Kahr. but if I picked up at speed off of table or going to draw for speed I would shoot the Glock much better.. Kahr left Glock got carried daily.
Next up will be "I shoot better without an optic."
LOL
There are guys here who will argue for carrying their semi-auto with an empty chamber for safety. One guy on the handguns forum once let it slip he only carried five rounds in his S&W M10 double action revolver because he wanted the hammer down on an empty chamber. Sad...
Those types would be better off with pepper spray.
Next up will be "I shoot better without an optic."
LOL
There are guys here who will argue for carrying their semi-auto with an empty chamber for safety. One guy on the handguns forum once let it slip he only carried five rounds in his S&W M10 double action revolver because he wanted the hammer down on an empty chamber. Sad...
[quote=goalie][quote=deflave]Next up will be "I shoot better without an optic."
LOL
In their defense, people with schitty fundamentals can't even find the dot on the draw, so they probably do......
Some of us are color blind and struggle to see the dot period. Secondly to me a handgun is a close quarter gun or a gun to give some firepower cover( firing back)to allow me to get to my shotgun or ar
Let's run a few scenerios and maybe you can help me understand how this works in the real world.
You're in the food court of a mall when a bad guy starts shooting people at the far end. Do you advance under cover and put shots on target, or head to your vehicle to get your long gun. Do you always have a long gun in your vehicle, or do you have to drive home to get your AR?
In the Florida nightclub shooting, all the exits were chained except the entrance. The gunman stood in the entrance shooting everyone as they tried to escape. In this scenerio, how does your handgun "buy you time to get to your long gun"? Do you travel with your long gun? Have it in the rental, and how are you getting past through the only exit to get to it?
"Fighting to another gun", is mostly BS. The vast majority of gunfights are won or lost with what you have on your or within reach when it kicks off.
Good point. While you're dicking around trying to "fight your way to a long gun", people are being murdered.
And most bubba's don't secure their guns in their vehicle, either. Over 400,000 firearms are reported stolen from vehicles per year. I personally know three people that have had this happen to them. If you can't secure it, don't leave it there.
several years back I had a Glock 30 and a Kahr CW 45 . if I took my time concentrated on the trigger and took careful aim I would shoot tiger groups on paper with the Kahr. but if I picked up at speed off of table or going to draw for speed I would shoot the Glock much better.. Kahr left Glock got carried daily.
Sounds like my brother, talks to me about what to get....then gets a Kimber SAO leave the hammer down on an empty chamber, with the safety on lol
I don't want a safety, don't want and empty chamber ,,,,,,,,, draw bang bang.
several years back I had a Glock 30 and a Kahr CW 45 . if I took my time concentrated on the trigger and took careful aim I would shoot tiger groups on paper with the Kahr. but if I picked up at speed off of table or going to draw for speed I would shoot the Glock much better.. Kahr left Glock got carried daily.
Sounds like my brother, talks to me about what to get....then gets a Kimber SAO leave the hammer down on an empty chamber, with the safety on lol
I don't want a safety, don't want and empty chamber ,,,,,,,,, draw bang bang.
You will have a safety unless you have DA revolver.
several years back I had a Glock 30 and a Kahr CW 45 . if I took my time concentrated on the trigger and took careful aim I would shoot tiger groups on paper with the Kahr. but if I picked up at speed off of table or going to draw for speed I would shoot the Glock much better.. Kahr left Glock got carried daily.
Sounds like my brother, talks to me about what to get....then gets a Kimber SAO leave the hammer down on an empty chamber, with the safety on lol
I don't want a safety, don't want and empty chamber ,,,,,,,,, draw bang bang.
You will have a safety unless you have DA revolver.
several years back I had a Glock 30 and a Kahr CW 45 . if I took my time concentrated on the trigger and took careful aim I would shoot tiger groups on paper with the Kahr. but if I picked up at speed off of table or going to draw for speed I would shoot the Glock much better.. Kahr left Glock got carried daily.
Sounds like my brother, talks to me about what to get....then gets a Kimber SAO leave the hammer down on an empty chamber, with the safety on lol
I don't want a safety, don't want and empty chamber ,,,,,,,,, draw bang bang.
Kinda hard to leave the safety on with the hammer down on a 1911. Or am I missing something?
several years back I had a Glock 30 and a Kahr CW 45 . if I took my time concentrated on the trigger and took careful aim I would shoot tiger groups on paper with the Kahr. but if I picked up at speed off of table or going to draw for speed I would shoot the Glock much better.. Kahr left Glock got carried daily.
Sounds like my brother, talks to me about what to get....then gets a Kimber SAO leave the hammer down on an empty chamber, with the safety on lol
I don't want a safety, don't want and empty chamber ,,,,,,,,, draw bang bang.
Kinda hard to leave the safety on with the hammer down on a 1911. Or am I missing something?
Not sure TBH, that's what he told me from 5 states away....although I'd think you could have the safety on, with the hammer down in theory.
But again I don't know, and wouldn't own a SA for CCW
several years back I had a Glock 30 and a Kahr CW 45 . if I took my time concentrated on the trigger and took careful aim I would shoot tiger groups on paper with the Kahr. but if I picked up at speed off of table or going to draw for speed I would shoot the Glock much better.. Kahr left Glock got carried daily.
Sounds like my brother, talks to me about what to get....then gets a Kimber SAO leave the hammer down on an empty chamber, with the safety on lol
I don't want a safety, don't want and empty chamber ,,,,,,,,, draw bang bang.
Kinda hard to leave the safety on with the hammer down on a 1911. Or am I missing something?
Those are good guns but in keeping with what Mackay is trying to convey, you need to ask if you can really fight with it.
In all likelihood that answer is no.
The 365XMacros on the other hand are a real beast. Full grip frame, excellent capacity, slimmer profile than a standard double stack and an abbreviated slide. The shorter slide is especially useful if you appendix carry. the reduced sight radius is not much of a factor these days because most everyone is running a dot.
When you reduce the size of your grip frame you're reducing the amount of contact you have with any pistol. This makes you shoot it less effectively than you would a full size. Regardless of skill level.
They also induce all sorts of problems with your draw from concealment. Think trying to grab two fingers instead of somebody's forearm/wrist. The same applies to reloads. Small (short) grip frames suck.
I could be wrong but I don't think I'm overstepping when I say these are some of the points Mackay is making when he says a "gun I can fight with."
Thank You
I appreciate an informed reply.
It looks like the P365 has the same drawbacks as my EC9 and is fatter. I pocket carry, principally due to reaching limitations. It's lower and much easier for me to access, accordingly. GD I hate old age. The EC9 is in the right pocket and extra magazine in the left. The smaller grip frame doesn't lend itself to accuracy for sure, but in my present circumstance it is actually easier for me to grab. It has to do with some fingers not opening when I tell them. The thumb, index, and middle fingers are still online just fine, so the smaller frame isn't a factor for me.
The EC's black sights are a bitch to acquire fast, and they need some paint. What's your suggestion?
Some of us are color blind and struggle to see the dot period. Secondly to me a handgun is a close quarter gun or a gun to give some firepower cover( firing back)to allow me to get to my shotgun or ar
How does not knowing the color of the dot stop you from seeing the dot?
I can’t pick the color out. You know the eye dr test with the circles and numbers in them? I can see the dots and the difference but can’t make the numbers out
several years back I had a Glock 30 and a Kahr CW 45 . if I took my time concentrated on the trigger and took careful aim I would shoot tiger groups on paper with the Kahr. but if I picked up at speed off of table or going to draw for speed I would shoot the Glock much better.. Kahr left Glock got carried daily.
Sounds like my brother, talks to me about what to get....then gets a Kimber SAO leave the hammer down on an empty chamber, with the safety on lol
I don't want a safety, don't want and empty chamber ,,,,,,,,, draw bang bang.
Kinda hard to leave the safety on with the hammer down on a 1911. Or am I missing something?
"Kimber Micro 9 design advantages is a single action trigger with the kind of short, smooth pull that ensures accuracy and builds confidence. The thumb safety, slide release and magazine release are pure 1911 as well."
several years back I had a Glock 30 and a Kahr CW 45 . if I took my time concentrated on the trigger and took careful aim I would shoot tiger groups on paper with the Kahr. but if I picked up at speed off of table or going to draw for speed I would shoot the Glock much better.. Kahr left Glock got carried daily.
Sounds like my brother, talks to me about what to get....then gets a Kimber SAO leave the hammer down on an empty chamber, with the safety on lol
I don't want a safety, don't want and empty chamber ,,,,,,,,, draw bang bang.
Kinda hard to leave the safety on with the hammer down on a 1911. Or am I missing something?
"Kimber Micro 9 design advantages is a single action trigger with the kind of short, smooth pull that ensures accuracy and builds confidence. The thumb safety, slide release and magazine release are pure 1911 as well."
Thank for the slavek type response. WTF are you trying to convey?
"Fighting to another gun", is mostly BS. The vast majority of gunfights are won or lost with what you have on your or within reach when it kicks off.
As I’ve said before I’m not a gunfighter. I’m also not responsible for the safety of everybody in a mall. Having said that I’m reasonably sure I would draw and engage if close enough to make a difference. As far as fighting my way to the truck to get my rifle? No thanks. If that is the case and I’ve had to fight my way to the truck, I’m either staying at the truck or driving away. I WOULD NOT retrieve a long gun of any sort much less an AR type then charge back in. That’s kinda like the turkey fan goober heads put in front of themselves as they crawl towards gobblers; an outstanding way to get shot. The po-leese responding will not assume you’re a good guy that only wants to help.
[quote=goalie][quote=deflave]Next up will be "I shoot better without an optic."
LOL
In their defense, people with schitty fundamentals can't even find the dot on the draw, so they probably do......
Some of us are color blind and struggle to see the dot period. Secondly to me a handgun is a close quarter gun or a gun to give some firepower cover( firing back)to allow me to get to my shotgun or ar
Let's run a few scenerios and maybe you can help me understand how this works in the real world.
You're in the food court of a mall when a bad guy starts shooting people at the far end. Do you advance under cover and put shots on target, or head to your vehicle to get your long gun. Do you always have a long gun in your vehicle, or do you have to drive home to get your AR?
In the Florida nightclub shooting, all the exits were chained except the entrance. The gunman stood in the entrance shooting everyone as they tried to escape. In this scenerio, how does your handgun "buy you time to get to your long gun"? Do you travel with your long gun? Have it in the rental, and how are you getting past through the only exit to get to it?
"Fighting to another gun", is mostly BS. The vast majority of gunfights are won or lost with what you have on your or within reach when it kicks off.
First I do have a loaded shotgun and ar in my vehicle. Second I must clarify the get to other gun. If I’m stopped in my truck or at home the handgun to me can slow the attack especially if the intruder caught by surprise long enough to get the other guns out. In your scenario it depends, if it close by advance and attack, if it a long way away start to get people out of harms way while watching shooters direction. And also depends on the weapon,, if the mall attacker has an ar I am outranged and out gunned with a handgun, if he has a shotgun the odds are in favor that I have longer range than he does The Florida one it doesn’t buy time but maybe could have been used to startle the shooter and keep him at bay, maybe it could have been used to get a door open Each scenario is different and each responder responds differently
several years back I had a Glock 30 and a Kahr CW 45 . if I took my time concentrated on the trigger and took careful aim I would shoot tiger groups on paper with the Kahr. but if I picked up at speed off of table or going to draw for speed I would shoot the Glock much better.. Kahr left Glock got carried daily.
Sounds like my brother, talks to me about what to get....then gets a Kimber SAO leave the hammer down on an empty chamber, with the safety on lol
I don't want a safety, don't want and empty chamber ,,,,,,,,, draw bang bang.
Kinda hard to leave the safety on with the hammer down on a 1911. Or am I missing something?
"Kimber Micro 9 design advantages is a single action trigger with the kind of short, smooth pull that ensures accuracy and builds confidence. The thumb safety, slide release and magazine release are pure 1911 as well."
Thank for the slavek type response. WTF are you trying to convey?
It doesn’t sound like Bwana is very familiar with the 1911. Owning and being proficient with a 1911 should be a requirement for American citizenship and the right to vote.
Bwana, the thumb safety on a 1911 can’t be engaged unless the hammer is back. I believe the term “locked and cocked” was coined for carrying a 1911 loaded, round in chamber with the hammer back and safety on. I understand that you got that info from your brother, but you need to get yourself a 1911. You’re missing out on one of the finer things in life. And they carry nicely. Even a 5” model is concealable, especially for a little taller fellow.
I find no honor in not defending oneself, but more disturbing is the unwilling to defend others who may be defenseless.
You want to be a hero go ahead, but my family depends on me..... they and myself are MY responsibility and once safe It's everyone else's turn to protect themselves. If everyone took responsibility for them and their's , the bad guy wouldn't stand a chance.
I ain't gonna pretend and try to play swat tactical operator and put myself or my family in danger just cause some sheep have grown to depend on the cops for their saftey.
several years back I had a Glock 30 and a Kahr CW 45 . if I took my time concentrated on the trigger and took careful aim I would shoot tiger groups on paper with the Kahr. but if I picked up at speed off of table or going to draw for speed I would shoot the Glock much better.. Kahr left Glock got carried daily.
Sounds like my brother, talks to me about what to get....then gets a Kimber SAO leave the hammer down on an empty chamber, with the safety on lol
I don't want a safety, don't want and empty chamber ,,,,,,,,, draw bang bang.
Kinda hard to leave the safety on with the hammer down on a 1911. Or am I missing something?
"Kimber Micro 9 design advantages is a single action trigger with the kind of short, smooth pull that ensures accuracy and builds confidence. The thumb safety, slide release and magazine release are pure 1911 as well."
Thank for the slavek type response. WTF are you trying to convey?
It doesn’t sound like Bwana is very familiar with the 1911. Owning and being proficient with a 1911 should be a requirement for American citizenship and the right to vote.
Bwana, the thumb safety on a 1911 can’t be engaged unless the hammer is back. I believe the term “locked and cocked” was coined for carrying a 1911 loaded, round in chamber with the hammer back and safety on. I understand that you got that info from your brother, but you need to get yourself a 1911. You’re missing out on one of the finer things in life. And they carry nicely. Even a 5” model is concealable, especially for a little taller fellow.
You are correct, I never said I owned 1 nor shot one....my brother does. I was only stating he keeps the hammer down on an empty chamber when carrying....and he said the safety on.
Again I don't know, don't care, and I own a number of pistols I carry and none of them are like that.
No safety, no empty chamber, draw bang bang.
EDIT: I understand the 1911 is a great platform and excellent trigger, but I have a bunch of pistols and revolvers I'm very happy with for now.
[quote=goalie][quote=deflave]Next up will be "I shoot better without an optic."
LOL
In their defense, people with schitty fundamentals can't even find the dot on the draw, so they probably do......
Some of us are color blind and struggle to see the dot period. Secondly to me a handgun is a close quarter gun or a gun to give some firepower cover( firing back)to allow me to get to my shotgun or ar
and where do you keep you AR or shotgun while you are wandering around walmart with your wife?
And there's an active debate whether or not it's even true that it was standard practice in the Old West to carry only five in your Colt SAA. The Colt SAA was designed with a safety notch (the first click) in the hammer, and Colt intended their revolvers to be carried with six loaded chambers with this notch engaged.
[quote=goalie][quote=deflave]Next up will be "I shoot better without an optic."
LOL
In their defense, people with schitty fundamentals can't even find the dot on the draw, so they probably do......
Some of us are color blind and struggle to see the dot period. Secondly to me a handgun is a close quarter gun or a gun to give some firepower cover( firing back)to allow me to get to my shotgun or ar
Let's run a few scenerios and maybe you can help me understand how this works in the real world.
You're in the food court of a mall when a bad guy starts shooting people at the far end. Do you advance under cover and put shots on target, or head to your vehicle to get your long gun. Do you always have a long gun in your vehicle, or do you have to drive home to get your AR?
In the Florida nightclub shooting, all the exits were chained except the entrance. The gunman stood in the entrance shooting everyone as they tried to escape. In this scenerio, how does your handgun "buy you time to get to your long gun"? Do you travel with your long gun? Have it in the rental, and how are you getting past through the only exit to get to it?
"Fighting to another gun", is mostly BS. The vast majority of gunfights are won or lost with what you have on your or within reach when it kicks off.
First I do have a loaded shotgun and ar in my vehicle. Second I must clarify the get to other gun. If I’m stopped in my truck or at home the handgun to me can slow the attack especially if the intruder caught by surprise long enough to get the other guns out. In your scenario it depends, if it close by advance and attack, if it a long way away start to get people out of harms way while watching shooters direction. And also depends on the weapon,, if the mall attacker has an ar I am outranged and out gunned with a handgun, if he has a shotgun the odds are in favor that I have longer range than he does The Florida one it doesn’t buy time but maybe could have been used to startle the shooter and keep him at bay, maybe it could have been used to get a door open Each scenario is different and each responder responds differently
I appreciate your response, but I think you get my point. I've lived places where keeping a long gun in the vehicle was the norm, but around here, not so much. Either way, most gun fights are a "come as you are" party. What you have when it starts is what you'll have when it end, so dress accordingly.
TRH posts some good footage from real self-defense encounters. Anyone who's watched more than a couple dozen will stop with the cold chambers, weird carry positions, and illusions you'll have time to go get another gun. Yes, it occasionally happens, but not very often.
several years back I had a Glock 30 and a Kahr CW 45 . if I took my time concentrated on the trigger and took careful aim I would shoot tiger groups on paper with the Kahr. but if I picked up at speed off of table or going to draw for speed I would shoot the Glock much better.. Kahr left Glock got carried daily.
Sounds like my brother, talks to me about what to get....then gets a Kimber SAO leave the hammer down on an empty chamber, with the safety on lol
I don't want a safety, don't want and empty chamber ,,,,,,,,, draw bang bang.
Kinda hard to leave the safety on with the hammer down on a 1911. Or am I missing something?
"Kimber Micro 9 design advantages is a single action trigger with the kind of short, smooth pull that ensures accuracy and builds confidence. The thumb safety, slide release and magazine release are pure 1911 as well."
Thank for the slavek type response. WTF are you trying to convey?
It doesn’t sound like Bwana is very familiar with the 1911. Owning and being proficient with a 1911 should be a requirement for American citizenship and the right to vote.
Bwana, the thumb safety on a 1911 can’t be engaged unless the hammer is back. I believe the term “locked and cocked” was coined for carrying a 1911 loaded, round in chamber with the hammer back and safety on. I understand that you got that info from your brother, but you need to get yourself a 1911. You’re missing out on one of the finer things in life. And they carry nicely. Even a 5” model is concealable, especially for a little taller fellow.
Forty years ago my carry was a Commander LW, always cocked n locked. At 6' 2 1/2" it wasn't hard to conceal and carry. I practiced jacking a round with one hand and did it with either hand easily. I never was a great handgun shot but was adequate +, I would guess.
There was always that extra sense of security in carrying a 45acp.
several years back I had a Glock 30 and a Kahr CW 45 . if I took my time concentrated on the trigger and took careful aim I would shoot tiger groups on paper with the Kahr. but if I picked up at speed off of table or going to draw for speed I would shoot the Glock much better.. Kahr left Glock got carried daily.
Sounds like my brother, talks to me about what to get....then gets a Kimber SAO leave the hammer down on an empty chamber, with the safety on lol
I don't want a safety, don't want and empty chamber ,,,,,,,,, draw bang bang.
Kinda hard to leave the safety on with the hammer down on a 1911. Or am I missing something?
"Kimber Micro 9 design advantages is a single action trigger with the kind of short, smooth pull that ensures accuracy and builds confidence. The thumb safety, slide release and magazine release are pure 1911 as well."
Thank for the slavek type response. WTF are you trying to convey?
It doesn’t sound like Bwana is very familiar with the 1911. Owning and being proficient with a 1911 should be a requirement for American citizenship and the right to vote.
Bwana, the thumb safety on a 1911 can’t be engaged unless the hammer is back. I believe the term “locked and cocked” was coined for carrying a 1911 loaded, round in chamber with the hammer back and safety on. I understand that you got that info from your brother, but you need to get yourself a 1911. You’re missing out on one of the finer things in life. And they carry nicely. Even a 5” model is concealable, especially for a little taller fellow.
Forty years ago my carry was a Commander LW, always cocked n locked. At 6' 2 1/2" it wasn't hard to conceal and carry. I practiced jacking a round with one hand and did it with either hand easily. I never was a great handgun shot but was adequate +, I would guess.
There was always that extra sense of security in carrying a 45acp.
Hard to beat the ergonomics of a 1911, IMO. Also very safe to carry cocked and locked. The internal safety polymer guns may be simpler in operation, not having to worry about thumb safeties, but the 1911 seems like an extension of your body when you aim and shoot it. It also rests well against the body during concealment, especially for a pistol of that size.
Yes, old slabs sides is much easier to carry concealed than most, who haven't tried it, tend to believe. Like others have said, this is due to its flatness against the body. That makes for both comfort and concealability. The length of the butt is the only factor impeding concealment under an untucked shirt, but the Officer sized frames addressed that. A nice combo is the Officer sized frame and the Commander sized barrel/slide.
Wrapids is a Liberal POS, none of this should surprise anyone. Liberals are only interested in themselves they have no interest in anyone else. Probably a good thing as they would just get in the way of real men taking care of business.
Here's one of his more colorful mentions.
Originally Posted by Wrapids
[bleep] trump, all that needs be said
You're right Mac, You should carry what you're good with not how well it goes with your outfit.
First of all, liberals like Wrapids should just FOAD and stay there. Don't bother sticking your head out on this board because you're not wanted here. Get a clue. Morons like you are not our brothers and you are not Patriots. So get that out of your mind that anyone on this board is your brother, you fugking commie puke.
Those are good guns but in keeping with what Mackay is trying to convey, you need to ask if you can really fight with it.
In all likelihood that answer is no.
The 365XMacros on the other hand are a real beast. Full grip frame, excellent capacity, slimmer profile than a standard double stack and an abbreviated slide. The shorter slide is especially useful if you appendix carry. the reduced sight radius is not much of a factor these days because most everyone is running a dot.
When you reduce the size of your grip frame you're reducing the amount of contact you have with any pistol. This makes you shoot it less effectively than you would a full size. Regardless of skill level.
They also induce all sorts of problems with your draw from concealment. Think trying to grab two fingers instead of somebody's forearm/wrist. The same applies to reloads. Small (short) grip frames suck.
I could be wrong but I don't think I'm overstepping when I say these are some of the points Mackay is making when he says a "gun I can fight with."
Sumbeetch...................that's a great post.
Didn't think ya had it in ya.
And you're 100% right on the barrel length relative to appendix carry, which is my preferred routine method; 4.25 - 4.5" is the absolute longest that I can carry appendix style & be comfortable sitting for a fairly long time.
Anyone that says that they can shoot smaller guns than bigger guns of similar models (withing reason, size wise) is fooling themselves.
Double stack and accurate. Consider it a minimum these days.
Standard model, the short grip frame actually works well for me. Didnt know if it would, normally dont like em. Maybe the width helped?
Have full size HK too. But summer is 365 time.
What do you mean when you say the short grip works for you?
Man, I wish people would stop talking about "summer carry". Stop being a fugking wimp and carry something you can fight with, and win. Geez o Pete. Strap a Glock 17 to your hip and go ye therefore!
I mostly agree with the OP but situations, gender, age and size play some role. A woman carrying a gun, almost any reliable gun to prevent a sexual assault against a man that may be unarmed or armed with just a knife and relying solely on being stronger than her is different than the reasons a healthy man would carry.
I’m 6’3” and still reasonably young and fit. I’m unlikely to be involved in a justifiable shooting against an unarmed lone individual. In the unlikely scenario that I needed to use a gun it’s likely going to be against an armed with a gun individual, or individuals as the OP described and in that circumstance I want a decent sized gun with mag capacity.
A woman, young lady or whomever can choose to pack whatever is most appropriate for them. That point may have been lost. Having a gun that you can use and fight with is the point.
My oldest daughter, when she was not yet an adult started packing a 9mm Shield (gen 1 version). This was due to some events, as well as the fact that the local LE were completely apathetic in their response to a specific incident.
She was already a trained revolver shooter,
so getting her tuned up on a semi auto was not too tough. I told her that she was to protect herself as necessary and I would handle the rest.
In the case of the Lewiston shootings, even having just one female with a little Shield, or P365, or some other compact 9mm or .38 Special, and effectively employing it by putting at least one round into the guts or chest of the bad guy could have altered the whole course of the events.
He may not have died immediately from taking the hit to the guts or chest or wherever, but it may have made him decide that he did not want to do anything else.
One person can make a difference if they are willing to fight back.
Both courage and fear are contagious and I have seen both in action. You can have one person panic and start running, and the next thing you know everyone is panicking and doing the same. Courage works the same way.
People are generally just looking for direction. A leader. Once they see someone take charge and go after the enemy/a bad guy (or whatever the objective is) they too will become bold, all of the sudden, they are not as scared anymore and they will decide to take action as well.
So pack a gun, practice with it, develop your skill sets and be able to protect those you love and care for. Nobody else is going to do it for you.
Amen Brudda.
I have 4 kids (and 4 grandkids so far) and tell them you can be a victim if you want, but that is not a good option. Work on skills, I'll help. And I do.
The 365 is a good little gun. Shoots well, especially when paired with the extended 12 round mags that allow you to get a full grip (at least for me). Also easy to conceal, as long as you don’t try to stuff it in a pocket. IWB, appendix or otherwise is the way to go with the 365 imo.
Double stack and accurate. Consider it a minimum these days.
Standard model, the short grip frame actually works well for me. Didnt know if it would, normally dont like em. Maybe the width helped?
Have full size HK too. But summer is 365 time.
What do you mean when you say the short grip works for you?
Man, I wish people would stop talking about "summer carry". Stop being a fugking wimp and carry something you can fight with, and win. Geez o Pete. Strap a Glock 17 to your hip and go ye therefore!
Those are good guns but in keeping with what Mackay is trying to convey, you need to ask if you can really fight with it.
In all likelihood that answer is no.
The 365XMacros on the other hand are a real beast. Full grip frame, excellent capacity, slimmer profile than a standard double stack and an abbreviated slide. The shorter slide is especially useful if you appendix carry. the reduced sight radius is not much of a factor these days because most everyone is running a dot.
When you reduce the size of your grip frame you're reducing the amount of contact you have with any pistol. This makes you shoot it less effectively than you would a full size. Regardless of skill level.
They also induce all sorts of problems with your draw from concealment. Think trying to grab two fingers instead of somebody's forearm/wrist. The same applies to reloads. Small (short) grip frames suck.
I could be wrong but I don't think I'm overstepping when I say these are some of the points Mackay is making when he says a "gun I can fight with."
Thank You
I appreciate an informed reply.
It looks like the P365 has the same drawbacks as my EC9 and is fatter. I pocket carry, principally due to reaching limitations. It's lower and much easier for me to access, accordingly. GD I hate old age. The EC9 is in the right pocket and extra magazine in the left. The smaller grip frame doesn't lend itself to accuracy for sure, but in my present circumstance it is actually easier for me to grab. It has to do with some fingers not opening when I tell them. The thumb, index, and middle fingers are still online just fine, so the smaller frame isn't a factor for me.
The EC's black sights are a bitch to acquire fast, and they need some paint. What's your suggestion?
Paint? Anything is better than black. I like white, but..... getcha a three color option site paint kit from amazon and figger it out for yassef.
Since its halloween time period, I bought a number of Halloween paint kits from WalMart on clearance some years ago. These are the luminous ones that "light up in the dark". Work great, if you can disregard the goulish packaging...... IIRC they were only a few cents on the dollar at the time.
What’s interesting is that there seems to be a notion that something like a 642 or 43 is something not worthy of fighting with.
Proficiency comes with lots of rounds fired down range. I like my 642 pocket gun. I take it everywhere. I have others that I sometimes carry. A 2 3/4” 69, a commander sized 9mm Rabge Officer. If I was choosing to get into a gun fight, would I bring the 642? No. I’d bring a rifle.
Of course, a snubby or a mini SA wil be slower to shoot, accurately. It will kick more and hold fewer rounds. But, beating able to produce the firearm and hit your target quickly is what matters. You can hit things at grocery store aisle distances with a small gun, if you practice enough.
Of course Mackay always drives home great points with lots of knowledge and wisdom to back them up. But I think the take home here should be to shoot your damn gun. Get out and shoot. And keep it handy. And, that goes for all of your guns. Keep them well maintained, fed and hot, as best you can.
I’ve been loading and bulking up my reserves of 38 special reloads. I think I’ll go burn some out of that pocket rocket.
What’s interesting is that there seems to be a notion that something like a 642 or 43 is something not worthy of fighting with.
Proficiency comes with lots of rounds fired down range. I like my 642 pocket gun. I take it everywhere. I have others that I sometimes carry. A 2 3/4” 69, a commander sized 9mm Rabge Officer. If I was choosing to get into a gun fight, would I bring the 642? No. I’d bring a rifle.
Of course, a snubby or a mini SA wil be slower to shoot, accurately. It will kick more and hold fewer rounds. But, beating able to produce the firearm and hit your target quickly is what matters. You can hit things at grocery store aisle distances with a small gun, if you practice enough.
Of course Mackay always drives home great points with lots of knowledge and wisdom to back them up. But I think the take home here should be to shoot your damn gun. Get out and shoot. And keep it handy. And, that goes for all of your guns. Keep them well maintained, fed and hot, as best you can.
I’ve been loading and bulking up my reserves of 38 special reloads. I think I’ll go burn some out of that pocket rocket.
I carried my Mdl 37 for a while, but the hammer was like a fish hook, caught everything. A 642 would be nice to carry, but they're slow to re-load.
Those are good guns but in keeping with what Mackay is trying to convey, you need to ask if you can really fight with it.
In all likelihood that answer is no.
The 365XMacros on the other hand are a real beast. Full grip frame, excellent capacity, slimmer profile than a standard double stack and an abbreviated slide. The shorter slide is especially useful if you appendix carry. the reduced sight radius is not much of a factor these days because most everyone is running a dot.
When you reduce the size of your grip frame you're reducing the amount of contact you have with any pistol. This makes you shoot it less effectively than you would a full size. Regardless of skill level.
They also induce all sorts of problems with your draw from concealment. Think trying to grab two fingers instead of somebody's forearm/wrist. The same applies to reloads. Small (short) grip frames suck.
I could be wrong but I don't think I'm overstepping when I say these are some of the points Mackay is making when he says a "gun I can fight with."
Thank You
I appreciate an informed reply.
It looks like the P365 has the same drawbacks as my EC9 and is fatter. I pocket carry, principally due to reaching limitations. It's lower and much easier for me to access, accordingly. GD I hate old age. The EC9 is in the right pocket and extra magazine in the left. The smaller grip frame doesn't lend itself to accuracy for sure, but in my present circumstance it is actually easier for me to grab. It has to do with some fingers not opening when I tell them. The thumb, index, and middle fingers are still online just fine, so the smaller frame isn't a factor for me.
The EC's black sights are a bitch to acquire fast, and they need some paint. What's your suggestion?
Paint? Anything is better than black. I like white, but..... getcha a three color option site paint kit from amazon and figger it out for yassef.
Since its halloween time period, I bought a number of Halloween paint kits from WalMart on clearance some years ago. These are the luminous ones that "light up in the dark". Work great, if you can disregard the goulish packaging...... IIRC they were only a few cents on the dollar at the time.
I would not carry a handgun that requires paint on the sights.
There are just too many good options available out there.
Those are good guns but in keeping with what Mackay is trying to convey, you need to ask if you can really fight with it.
In all likelihood that answer is no.
The 365XMacros on the other hand are a real beast. Full grip frame, excellent capacity, slimmer profile than a standard double stack and an abbreviated slide. The shorter slide is especially useful if you appendix carry. the reduced sight radius is not much of a factor these days because most everyone is running a dot.
When you reduce the size of your grip frame you're reducing the amount of contact you have with any pistol. This makes you shoot it less effectively than you would a full size. Regardless of skill level.
They also induce all sorts of problems with your draw from concealment. Think trying to grab two fingers instead of somebody's forearm/wrist. The same applies to reloads. Small (short) grip frames suck.
I could be wrong but I don't think I'm overstepping when I say these are some of the points Mackay is making when he says a "gun I can fight with."
Thank You
I appreciate an informed reply.
It looks like the P365 has the same drawbacks as my EC9 and is fatter. I pocket carry, principally due to reaching limitations. It's lower and much easier for me to access, accordingly. GD I hate old age. The EC9 is in the right pocket and extra magazine in the left. The smaller grip frame doesn't lend itself to accuracy for sure, but in my present circumstance it is actually easier for me to grab. It has to do with some fingers not opening when I tell them. The thumb, index, and middle fingers are still online just fine, so the smaller frame isn't a factor for me.
The EC's black sights are a bitch to acquire fast, and they need some paint. What's your suggestion?
Paint? Anything is better than black. I like white, but..... getcha a three color option site paint kit from amazon and figger it out for yassef.
Since its halloween time period, I bought a number of Halloween paint kits from WalMart on clearance some years ago. These are the luminous ones that "light up in the dark". Work great, if you can disregard the goulish packaging...... IIRC they were only a few cents on the dollar at the time.
I would not carry a handgun that requires paint on the sights.
There are just too many good options available out there.
What would they be for $250-$300? Anything much higher is no longer an option.
Those are good guns but in keeping with what Mackay is trying to convey, you need to ask if you can really fight with it.
In all likelihood that answer is no.
The 365XMacros on the other hand are a real beast. Full grip frame, excellent capacity, slimmer profile than a standard double stack and an abbreviated slide. The shorter slide is especially useful if you appendix carry. the reduced sight radius is not much of a factor these days because most everyone is running a dot.
When you reduce the size of your grip frame you're reducing the amount of contact you have with any pistol. This makes you shoot it less effectively than you would a full size. Regardless of skill level.
They also induce all sorts of problems with your draw from concealment. Think trying to grab two fingers instead of somebody's forearm/wrist. The same applies to reloads. Small (short) grip frames suck.
I could be wrong but I don't think I'm overstepping when I say these are some of the points Mackay is making when he says a "gun I can fight with."
Thank You
I appreciate an informed reply.
It looks like the P365 has the same drawbacks as my EC9 and is fatter. I pocket carry, principally due to reaching limitations. It's lower and much easier for me to access, accordingly. GD I hate old age. The EC9 is in the right pocket and extra magazine in the left. The smaller grip frame doesn't lend itself to accuracy for sure, but in my present circumstance it is actually easier for me to grab. It has to do with some fingers not opening when I tell them. The thumb, index, and middle fingers are still online just fine, so the smaller frame isn't a factor for me.
The EC's black sights are a bitch to acquire fast, and they need some paint. What's your suggestion?
Paint? Anything is better than black. I like white, but..... getcha a three color option site paint kit from amazon and figger it out for yassef.
Since its halloween time period, I bought a number of Halloween paint kits from WalMart on clearance some years ago. These are the luminous ones that "light up in the dark". Work great, if you can disregard the goulish packaging...... IIRC they were only a few cents on the dollar at the time.
I would not carry a handgun that requires paint on the sights.
There are just too many good options available out there.
What would they be for $250-$300? Anything much higher is no longer an option.
I believe the EC9 has sights milled into the slide.
I'd try to buy or trade into something 365, 43X, or bigger.
What’s interesting is that there seems to be a notion that something like a 642 or 43 is something not worthy of fighting with.
Proficiency comes with lots of rounds fired down range. I like my 642 pocket gun. I take it everywhere. I have others that I sometimes carry. A 2 3/4” 69, a commander sized 9mm Rabge Officer. If I was choosing to get into a gun fight, would I bring the 642? No. I’d bring a rifle.
Of course, a snubby or a mini SA wil be slower to shoot, accurately. It will kick more and hold fewer rounds. But, beating able to produce the firearm and hit your target quickly is what matters. You can hit things at grocery store aisle distances with a small gun, if you practice enough.
Of course Mackay always drives home great points with lots of knowledge and wisdom to back them up. But I think the take home here should be to shoot your damn gun. Get out and shoot. And keep it handy. And, that goes for all of your guns. Keep them well maintained, fed and hot, as best you can.
I’ve been loading and bulking up my reserves of 38 special reloads. I think I’ll go burn some out of that pocket rocket.
Fighting with a handgun implies things like bounding/advancing/pressing, fire & maneuver, topping off, etc.
You might be able to do those things with your 642 but there's no way you're doing it effectively. And I say that as somebody that loves J-frames and LCRs and I shoot them very well.
several years back I had a Glock 30 and a Kahr CW 45 . if I took my time concentrated on the trigger and took careful aim I would shoot tiger groups on paper with the Kahr. but if I picked up at speed off of table or going to draw for speed I would shoot the Glock much better.. Kahr left Glock got carried daily.
Sounds like my brother, talks to me about what to get....then gets a Kimber SAO leave the hammer down on an empty chamber, with the safety on lol
I don't want a safety, don't want and empty chamber ,,,,,,,,, draw bang bang.
Kinda hard to leave the safety on with the hammer down on a 1911. Or am I missing something?
"Kimber Micro 9 design advantages is a single action trigger with the kind of short, smooth pull that ensures accuracy and builds confidence. The thumb safety, slide release and magazine release are pure 1911 as well."
Double stack and accurate. Consider it a minimum these days.
Standard model, the short grip frame actually works well for me. Didnt know if it would, normally dont like em. Maybe the width helped?
Have full size HK too. But summer is 365 time.
What do you mean when you say the short grip works for you?
Man, I wish people would stop talking about "summer carry". Stop being a fugking wimp and carry something you can fight with, and win. Geez o Pete. Strap a Glock 17 to your hip and go ye therefore!
Thank you Mackay S. for your learned observations. My .40 S&W HK USPc is my year-long carry. Hot/cold, it just rides in my El Paso Saddlery OWB holster. My life is worth the very slight discomfort of even that small rig. I can't endorse Lost River 170-gr +P load for the .40 enough, just buy some and try it. Optimized ammunition, even from a boutique mfg, is a godsend in our country. We've got it good here.
Last month there was a thread in the handguns section called "Summer Carry".
It started out as the typical "what pocket gun do you carry in the hot weather" type thread.
I answered with the following post:
What gun is the minimum you are willing to get into a gunfight against one or possibly two armed bad guys with? Armed as in both have at minimum, handguns. Are you willing to get into that gunfight, which is a fight to the death, (them or you) with a Kahr that holds 7 rounds of .380?
For me, I know what my choices are. Each has to decide. Personally, I don't own any of the micro guns, that hold a very small amount of rounds, as I don't want to fall into the habit of grabbing what is comfortable, rather than what will actually get the job done. My only exception is a J Frame, and it is relegated to BUG role, and on exceedingly rare occasions a primary, but pretty much 99+% of the time I carry a gun I am willing to actually fight with and can turn in a good performance while using.
I posted again showing what I had chosen to carry that day, which was my Glock 22, .40 S&W a reload and a knife.
One of the more condescending members (Wrapids) stated:
"None of my friends in central Wisconsin feel a need to carry a gun."
Then followed up afterwards by telling one of our other members that since they carried a gun and ammo, with this post:
"Sounds like you should leave a war zone"
I posted a few days later that I was packing the following, showing this picture:
To which Wrapids replied:
"You oughtta leave a war zone."
Here is the thing.
I RARELY comment about much of the stuff that goes on and try to stay out of it for the most part.
That said. This condescending liberal attitude is exactly why we just ended up with 18 people dead and 13 more wounded. Over 30 people total, plus all their families. Kids, spouses, parents, all the people who cared for them.
NOBODY SHOT BACK.
When the fight started, nobody took the fight to the enemy. Nobody stood their ground and put rounds into the bad guy.
NOBODY.
So Wrapids, maybe you should feel the need to carry a gun, because NOBODY is coming to save you.
It is up to individuals to protect themselves. It is not the job of the government, or the nanny state. You are responsible for your own protection and those you care for who are unable to protect themselves.
You and NOBODY ELSE.
Your typical liberal won't fight his own fight, but he sure will call the police and have someone else do it. He is too scared to do the job himself, but not too scared to put someone else at risk. Pathetic.
Back on point,
You don't get to pick and choose when these things are going to happen or where. They are like a gift from a stranger. You have to unwrap it and deal with it, no matter what it is. Odds are that the situation will not be in your favor as the bad guy(s) will have planned it that way. So deal with it.
That is why you carry a gun you are willing to get into a fight with, and actually be prepared to fight.
Just one person with a gun and some skills could have made a difference and changed the outcome drastically.
Think about Eli Dickens.
The 22 year old young man who stopped what would have been a massacre in a shopping mall. He did so by carrying a gun daily and practicing. When the time came, he did not run, he took the fight to the enemy and stopped a massacre before really got going.
This is The Way.
Unfortunately law abiding citizens tend to obey the law. Many states, Maine included, prohibit firearms carry where alcohol is served.
Last month there was a thread in the handguns section called "Summer Carry".
It started out as the typical "what pocket gun do you carry in the hot weather" type thread.
I answered with the following post:
What gun is the minimum you are willing to get into a gunfight against one or possibly two armed bad guys with? Armed as in both have at minimum, handguns. Are you willing to get into that gunfight, which is a fight to the death, (them or you) with a Kahr that holds 7 rounds of .380?
For me, I know what my choices are. Each has to decide. Personally, I don't own any of the micro guns, that hold a very small amount of rounds, as I don't want to fall into the habit of grabbing what is comfortable, rather than what will actually get the job done. My only exception is a J Frame, and it is relegated to BUG role, and on exceedingly rare occasions a primary, but pretty much 99+% of the time I carry a gun I am willing to actually fight with and can turn in a good performance while using.
I posted again showing what I had chosen to carry that day, which was my Glock 22, .40 S&W a reload and a knife.
One of the more condescending members (Wrapids) stated:
"None of my friends in central Wisconsin feel a need to carry a gun."
Then followed up afterwards by telling one of our other members that since they carried a gun and ammo, with this post:
"Sounds like you should leave a war zone"
I posted a few days later that I was packing the following, showing this picture:
To which Wrapids replied:
"You oughtta leave a war zone."
Here is the thing.
I RARELY comment about much of the stuff that goes on and try to stay out of it for the most part.
That said. This condescending liberal attitude is exactly why we just ended up with 18 people dead and 13 more wounded. Over 30 people total, plus all their families. Kids, spouses, parents, all the people who cared for them.
NOBODY SHOT BACK.
When the fight started, nobody took the fight to the enemy. Nobody stood their ground and put rounds into the bad guy.
NOBODY.
So Wrapids, maybe you should feel the need to carry a gun, because NOBODY is coming to save you.
It is up to individuals to protect themselves. It is not the job of the government, or the nanny state. You are responsible for your own protection and those you care for who are unable to protect themselves.
You and NOBODY ELSE.
Your typical liberal won't fight his own fight, but he sure will call the police and have someone else do it. He is too scared to do the job himself, but not too scared to put someone else at risk. Pathetic.
Back on point,
You don't get to pick and choose when these things are going to happen or where. They are like a gift from a stranger. You have to unwrap it and deal with it, no matter what it is. Odds are that the situation will not be in your favor as the bad guy(s) will have planned it that way. So deal with it.
That is why you carry a gun you are willing to get into a fight with, and actually be prepared to fight.
Just one person with a gun and some skills could have made a difference and changed the outcome drastically.
Think about Eli Dickens.
The 22 year old young man who stopped what would have been a massacre in a shopping mall. He did so by carrying a gun daily and practicing. When the time came, he did not run, he took the fight to the enemy and stopped a massacre before really got going.
This is The Way.
Unfortunately law abiding citizens tend to obey the law. Many states, Maine included, prohibit firearms carry where alcohol is served.
It is unfortunate that responsible citizens are prohibited from carrying a firearm in some places. Those are the kinds of places where an inconspicuous pocket gun can make all the difference.
What’s interesting is that there seems to be a notion that something like a 642 or 43 is something not worthy of fighting with.
Proficiency comes with lots of rounds fired down range. I like my 642 pocket gun. I take it everywhere. I have others that I sometimes carry. A 2 3/4” 69, a commander sized 9mm Rabge Officer. If I was choosing to get into a gun fight, would I bring the 642? No. I’d bring a rifle.
Of course, a snubby or a mini SA wil be slower to shoot, accurately. It will kick more and hold fewer rounds. But, beating able to produce the firearm and hit your target quickly is what matters. You can hit things at grocery store aisle distances with a small gun, if you practice enough.
Of course Mackay always drives home great points with lots of knowledge and wisdom to back them up. But I think the take home here should be to shoot your damn gun. Get out and shoot. And keep it handy. And, that goes for all of your guns. Keep them well maintained, fed and hot, as best you can.
I’ve been loading and bulking up my reserves of 38 special reloads. I think I’ll go burn some out of that pocket rocket.
Fighting with a handgun implies things like bounding/advancing/pressing, fire & maneuver, topping off, etc.
You might be able to do those things with your 642 but there's no way you're doing it effectively. And I say that as somebody that loves J-frames and LCRs and I shoot them very well.
Revolvers are not slow to reload.
I suppose that’s true in a technical sense. But in reality, the fight will more than likely be close enough and you’ll only have a few shots to end it.
If you have a handgun, I don’t care what it is, and the assailant has a rifle, you had better be good with what you brought. That’s a [bleep] situation. A thug in a gas station? I like my odds.
Last month there was a thread in the handguns section called "Summer Carry".
It started out as the typical "what pocket gun do you carry in the hot weather" type thread.
I answered with the following post:
What gun is the minimum you are willing to get into a gunfight against one or possibly two armed bad guys with? Armed as in both have at minimum, handguns. Are you willing to get into that gunfight, which is a fight to the death, (them or you) with a Kahr that holds 7 rounds of .380?
For me, I know what my choices are. Each has to decide. Personally, I don't own any of the micro guns, that hold a very small amount of rounds, as I don't want to fall into the habit of grabbing what is comfortable, rather than what will actually get the job done. My only exception is a J Frame, and it is relegated to BUG role, and on exceedingly rare occasions a primary, but pretty much 99+% of the time I carry a gun I am willing to actually fight with and can turn in a good performance while using.
I posted again showing what I had chosen to carry that day, which was my Glock 22, .40 S&W a reload and a knife.
One of the more condescending members (Wrapids) stated:
"None of my friends in central Wisconsin feel a need to carry a gun."
Then followed up afterwards by telling one of our other members that since they carried a gun and ammo, with this post:
"Sounds like you should leave a war zone"
I posted a few days later that I was packing the following, showing this picture:
To which Wrapids replied:
"You oughtta leave a war zone."
Here is the thing.
I RARELY comment about much of the stuff that goes on and try to stay out of it for the most part.
That said. This condescending liberal attitude is exactly why we just ended up with 18 people dead and 13 more wounded. Over 30 people total, plus all their families. Kids, spouses, parents, all the people who cared for them.
NOBODY SHOT BACK.
When the fight started, nobody took the fight to the enemy. Nobody stood their ground and put rounds into the bad guy.
NOBODY.
So Wrapids, maybe you should feel the need to carry a gun, because NOBODY is coming to save you.
It is up to individuals to protect themselves. It is not the job of the government, or the nanny state. You are responsible for your own protection and those you care for who are unable to protect themselves.
You and NOBODY ELSE.
Your typical liberal won't fight his own fight, but he sure will call the police and have someone else do it. He is too scared to do the job himself, but not too scared to put someone else at risk. Pathetic.
Back on point,
You don't get to pick and choose when these things are going to happen or where. They are like a gift from a stranger. You have to unwrap it and deal with it, no matter what it is. Odds are that the situation will not be in your favor as the bad guy(s) will have planned it that way. So deal with it.
That is why you carry a gun you are willing to get into a fight with, and actually be prepared to fight.
Just one person with a gun and some skills could have made a difference and changed the outcome drastically.
Think about Eli Dickens.
The 22 year old young man who stopped what would have been a massacre in a shopping mall. He did so by carrying a gun daily and practicing. When the time came, he did not run, he took the fight to the enemy and stopped a massacre before really got going.
This is The Way.
Unfortunately law abiding citizens tend to obey the law. Many states, Maine included, prohibit firearms carry where alcohol is served.
It is unfortunate that responsible citizens are prohibited from carrying a firearm in some places. Those are the kinds of places where an inconspicuous pocket gun can make all the difference.
Yep. Only worry about the possible consequences once you have had to save your ass.
Hands up, who's ever fought a crackhead? Gunfight or otherwise. I'll check back tomorrow morning EST for an answer and an explanation as to how you subdued the threat.
I've asked this question before and it's gone unanswered. Curious to see what it generates on this thread.
Last month there was a thread in the handguns section called "Summer Carry".
It started out as the typical "what pocket gun do you carry in the hot weather" type thread.
I answered with the following post:
What gun is the minimum you are willing to get into a gunfight against one or possibly two armed bad guys with? Armed as in both have at minimum, handguns. Are you willing to get into that gunfight, which is a fight to the death, (them or you) with a Kahr that holds 7 rounds of .380?
For me, I know what my choices are. Each has to decide. Personally, I don't own any of the micro guns, that hold a very small amount of rounds, as I don't want to fall into the habit of grabbing what is comfortable, rather than what will actually get the job done. My only exception is a J Frame, and it is relegated to BUG role, and on exceedingly rare occasions a primary, but pretty much 99+% of the time I carry a gun I am willing to actually fight with and can turn in a good performance while using.
I posted again showing what I had chosen to carry that day, which was my Glock 22, .40 S&W a reload and a knife.
One of the more condescending members (Wrapids) stated:
"None of my friends in central Wisconsin feel a need to carry a gun."
Then followed up afterwards by telling one of our other members that since they carried a gun and ammo, with this post:
"Sounds like you should leave a war zone"
I posted a few days later that I was packing the following, showing this picture:
To which Wrapids replied:
"You oughtta leave a war zone."
Here is the thing.
I RARELY comment about much of the stuff that goes on and try to stay out of it for the most part.
That said. This condescending liberal attitude is exactly why we just ended up with 18 people dead and 13 more wounded. Over 30 people total, plus all their families. Kids, spouses, parents, all the people who cared for them.
NOBODY SHOT BACK.
When the fight started, nobody took the fight to the enemy. Nobody stood their ground and put rounds into the bad guy.
NOBODY.
So Wrapids, maybe you should feel the need to carry a gun, because NOBODY is coming to save you.
It is up to individuals to protect themselves. It is not the job of the government, or the nanny state. You are responsible for your own protection and those you care for who are unable to protect themselves.
You and NOBODY ELSE.
Your typical liberal won't fight his own fight, but he sure will call the police and have someone else do it. He is too scared to do the job himself, but not too scared to put someone else at risk. Pathetic.
Back on point,
You don't get to pick and choose when these things are going to happen or where. They are like a gift from a stranger. You have to unwrap it and deal with it, no matter what it is. Odds are that the situation will not be in your favor as the bad guy(s) will have planned it that way. So deal with it.
That is why you carry a gun you are willing to get into a fight with, and actually be prepared to fight.
Just one person with a gun and some skills could have made a difference and changed the outcome drastically.
Think about Eli Dickens.
The 22 year old young man who stopped what would have been a massacre in a shopping mall. He did so by carrying a gun daily and practicing. When the time came, he did not run, he took the fight to the enemy and stopped a massacre before really got going.
This is The Way.
Unfortunately law abiding citizens tend to obey the law. Many states, Maine included, prohibit firearms carry where alcohol is served.
I’m not watching children get shot because of some gay ass law written by some butt fugk that’s never had a job.
What’s interesting is that there seems to be a notion that something like a 642 or 43 is something not worthy of fighting with.
Proficiency comes with lots of rounds fired down range. I like my 642 pocket gun. I take it everywhere. I have others that I sometimes carry. A 2 3/4” 69, a commander sized 9mm Rabge Officer. If I was choosing to get into a gun fight, would I bring the 642? No. I’d bring a rifle.
Of course, a snubby or a mini SA wil be slower to shoot, accurately. It will kick more and hold fewer rounds. But, beating able to produce the firearm and hit your target quickly is what matters. You can hit things at grocery store aisle distances with a small gun, if you practice enough.
Of course Mackay always drives home great points with lots of knowledge and wisdom to back them up. But I think the take home here should be to shoot your damn gun. Get out and shoot. And keep it handy. And, that goes for all of your guns. Keep them well maintained, fed and hot, as best you can.
I’ve been loading and bulking up my reserves of 38 special reloads. I think I’ll go burn some out of that pocket rocket.
Fighting with a handgun implies things like bounding/advancing/pressing, fire & maneuver, topping off, etc.
You might be able to do those things with your 642 but there's no way you're doing it effectively. And I say that as somebody that loves J-frames and LCRs and I shoot them very well.
Revolvers are not slow to reload.
I suppose that’s true in a technical sense. But in reality, the fight will more than likely be close enough and you’ll only have a few shots to end it.
If you have a handgun, I don’t care what it is, and the assailant has a rifle, you had better be good with what you brought. That’s a [bleep] situation. A thug in a gas station? I like my odds.
That’s wonderful but it is not within the context of this conversation.
Hands up, who's ever fought a crackhead? Gunfight or otherwise. I'll check back tomorrow morning EST for an answer and an explanation as to how you subdued the threat.
I've asked this question before and it's gone unanswered. Curious to see what it generates on this thread.
I have tussled with a crackhead but he was not high at the time.
A junkie also and he was high but very easy to deal with. Until he came down and started schitting all the time.
Last month there was a thread in the handguns section called "Summer Carry".
It started out as the typical "what pocket gun do you carry in the hot weather" type thread.
I answered with the following post:
What gun is the minimum you are willing to get into a gunfight against one or possibly two armed bad guys with? Armed as in both have at minimum, handguns. Are you willing to get into that gunfight, which is a fight to the death, (them or you) with a Kahr that holds 7 rounds of .380?
For me, I know what my choices are. Each has to decide. Personally, I don't own any of the micro guns, that hold a very small amount of rounds, as I don't want to fall into the habit of grabbing what is comfortable, rather than what will actually get the job done. My only exception is a J Frame, and it is relegated to BUG role, and on exceedingly rare occasions a primary, but pretty much 99+% of the time I carry a gun I am willing to actually fight with and can turn in a good performance while using.
I posted again showing what I had chosen to carry that day, which was my Glock 22, .40 S&W a reload and a knife.
One of the more condescending members (Wrapids) stated:
"None of my friends in central Wisconsin feel a need to carry a gun."
Then followed up afterwards by telling one of our other members that since they carried a gun and ammo, with this post:
"Sounds like you should leave a war zone"
I posted a few days later that I was packing the following, showing this picture:
To which Wrapids replied:
"You oughtta leave a war zone."
Here is the thing.
I RARELY comment about much of the stuff that goes on and try to stay out of it for the most part.
That said. This condescending liberal attitude is exactly why we just ended up with 18 people dead and 13 more wounded. Over 30 people total, plus all their families. Kids, spouses, parents, all the people who cared for them.
NOBODY SHOT BACK.
When the fight started, nobody took the fight to the enemy. Nobody stood their ground and put rounds into the bad guy.
NOBODY.
So Wrapids, maybe you should feel the need to carry a gun, because NOBODY is coming to save you.
It is up to individuals to protect themselves. It is not the job of the government, or the nanny state. You are responsible for your own protection and those you care for who are unable to protect themselves.
You and NOBODY ELSE.
Your typical liberal won't fight his own fight, but he sure will call the police and have someone else do it. He is too scared to do the job himself, but not too scared to put someone else at risk. Pathetic.
Back on point,
You don't get to pick and choose when these things are going to happen or where. They are like a gift from a stranger. You have to unwrap it and deal with it, no matter what it is. Odds are that the situation will not be in your favor as the bad guy(s) will have planned it that way. So deal with it.
That is why you carry a gun you are willing to get into a fight with, and actually be prepared to fight.
Just one person with a gun and some skills could have made a difference and changed the outcome drastically.
Think about Eli Dickens.
The 22 year old young man who stopped what would have been a massacre in a shopping mall. He did so by carrying a gun daily and practicing. When the time came, he did not run, he took the fight to the enemy and stopped a massacre before really got going.
This is The Way.
Well [bleep]. Didn't read all of this but plenty. Sir, I posted the summer carry question about a holster/ pocket carry for a kahr 380 for shorts and flip flops here at the beach.
My God, now I'm the left anti gun pussy that let the Maine killer loose? Hold your horses there big guy. My post is now the nobody shot back, left hatred anthem.
OK take a breath it's just an internet forum. I know I've earned my opinion.
Those are good guns but in keeping with what Mackay is trying to convey, you need to ask if you can really fight with it.
In all likelihood that answer is no.
The 365XMacros on the other hand are a real beast. Full grip frame, excellent capacity, slimmer profile than a standard double stack and an abbreviated slide. The shorter slide is especially useful if you appendix carry. the reduced sight radius is not much of a factor these days because most everyone is running a dot.
When you reduce the size of your grip frame you're reducing the amount of contact you have with any pistol. This makes you shoot it less effectively than you would a full size. Regardless of skill level.
They also induce all sorts of problems with your draw from concealment. Think trying to grab two fingers instead of somebody's forearm/wrist. The same applies to reloads. Small (short) grip frames suck.
I could be wrong but I don't think I'm overstepping when I say these are some of the points Mackay is making when he says a "gun I can fight with."
Thank You
I appreciate an informed reply.
It looks like the P365 has the same drawbacks as my EC9 and is fatter. I pocket carry, principally due to reaching limitations. It's lower and much easier for me to access, accordingly. GD I hate old age. The EC9 is in the right pocket and extra magazine in the left. The smaller grip frame doesn't lend itself to accuracy for sure, but in my present circumstance it is actually easier for me to grab. It has to do with some fingers not opening when I tell them. The thumb, index, and middle fingers are still online just fine, so the smaller frame isn't a factor for me.
The EC's black sights are a bitch to acquire fast, and they need some paint. What's your suggestion?
Paint? Anything is better than black. I like white, but..... getcha a three color option site paint kit from amazon and figger it out for yassef.
Since its halloween time period, I bought a number of Halloween paint kits from WalMart on clearance some years ago. These are the luminous ones that "light up in the dark". Work great, if you can disregard the goulish packaging...... IIRC they were only a few cents on the dollar at the time.
I would not carry a handgun that requires paint on the sights.
There are just too many good options available out there.
What would they be for $250-$300? Anything much higher is no longer an option.
I believe the EC9 has sights milled into the slide.
I'd try to buy or trade into something 365, 43X, or bigger.
They are and are right on at 25 yards with most standard ball ammo. They don't stick out like a sore thumb to say the least. I might try paint dots that are removable and see how that works, before anything permanent.
How much bigger would you say the 365 is? I need a pocket gun now. The EC9 is about as big as what works for me.
Those are good guns but in keeping with what Mackay is trying to convey, you need to ask if you can really fight with it.
In all likelihood that answer is no.
The 365XMacros on the other hand are a real beast. Full grip frame, excellent capacity, slimmer profile than a standard double stack and an abbreviated slide. The shorter slide is especially useful if you appendix carry. the reduced sight radius is not much of a factor these days because most everyone is running a dot.
When you reduce the size of your grip frame you're reducing the amount of contact you have with any pistol. This makes you shoot it less effectively than you would a full size. Regardless of skill level.
They also induce all sorts of problems with your draw from concealment. Think trying to grab two fingers instead of somebody's forearm/wrist. The same applies to reloads. Small (short) grip frames suck.
I could be wrong but I don't think I'm overstepping when I say these are some of the points Mackay is making when he says a "gun I can fight with."
Thank You
I appreciate an informed reply.
It looks like the P365 has the same drawbacks as my EC9 and is fatter. I pocket carry, principally due to reaching limitations. It's lower and much easier for me to access, accordingly. GD I hate old age. The EC9 is in the right pocket and extra magazine in the left. The smaller grip frame doesn't lend itself to accuracy for sure, but in my present circumstance it is actually easier for me to grab. It has to do with some fingers not opening when I tell them. The thumb, index, and middle fingers are still online just fine, so the smaller frame isn't a factor for me.
The EC's black sights are a bitch to acquire fast, and they need some paint. What's your suggestion?
Paint? Anything is better than black. I like white, but..... getcha a three color option site paint kit from amazon and figger it out for yassef.
Since its halloween time period, I bought a number of Halloween paint kits from WalMart on clearance some years ago. These are the luminous ones that "light up in the dark". Work great, if you can disregard the goulish packaging...... IIRC they were only a few cents on the dollar at the time.
I would not carry a handgun that requires paint on the sights.
There are just too many good options available out there.
What would they be for $250-$300? Anything much higher is no longer an option.
I believe the EC9 has sights milled into the slide.
I'd try to buy or trade into something 365, 43X, or bigger.
They are and are right on at 25 yards with most standard ball ammo. They don't stick out like a sore thumb to say the least. I might try paint dots that are removable and see how that works, before anything permanent.
How much bigger would you say the 365 is? I need a pocket gun now. The EC9 is about as big as what works for me.
Last month there was a thread in the handguns section called "Summer Carry".
It started out as the typical "what pocket gun do you carry in the hot weather" type thread.
I answered with the following post:
What gun is the minimum you are willing to get into a gunfight against one or possibly two armed bad guys with? Armed as in both have at minimum, handguns. Are you willing to get into that gunfight, which is a fight to the death, (them or you) with a Kahr that holds 7 rounds of .380?
For me, I know what my choices are. Each has to decide. Personally, I don't own any of the micro guns, that hold a very small amount of rounds, as I don't want to fall into the habit of grabbing what is comfortable, rather than what will actually get the job done. My only exception is a J Frame, and it is relegated to BUG role, and on exceedingly rare occasions a primary, but pretty much 99+% of the time I carry a gun I am willing to actually fight with and can turn in a good performance while using.
I posted again showing what I had chosen to carry that day, which was my Glock 22, .40 S&W a reload and a knife.
One of the more condescending members (Wrapids) stated:
"None of my friends in central Wisconsin feel a need to carry a gun."
Then followed up afterwards by telling one of our other members that since they carried a gun and ammo, with this post:
"Sounds like you should leave a war zone"
I posted a few days later that I was packing the following, showing this picture:
To which Wrapids replied:
"You oughtta leave a war zone."
Here is the thing.
I RARELY comment about much of the stuff that goes on and try to stay out of it for the most part.
That said. This condescending liberal attitude is exactly why we just ended up with 18 people dead and 13 more wounded. Over 30 people total, plus all their families. Kids, spouses, parents, all the people who cared for them.
NOBODY SHOT BACK.
When the fight started, nobody took the fight to the enemy. Nobody stood their ground and put rounds into the bad guy.
NOBODY.
So Wrapids, maybe you should feel the need to carry a gun, because NOBODY is coming to save you.
It is up to individuals to protect themselves. It is not the job of the government, or the nanny state. You are responsible for your own protection and those you care for who are unable to protect themselves.
You and NOBODY ELSE.
Your typical liberal won't fight his own fight, but he sure will call the police and have someone else do it. He is too scared to do the job himself, but not too scared to put someone else at risk. Pathetic.
Back on point,
You don't get to pick and choose when these things are going to happen or where. They are like a gift from a stranger. You have to unwrap it and deal with it, no matter what it is. Odds are that the situation will not be in your favor as the bad guy(s) will have planned it that way. So deal with it.
That is why you carry a gun you are willing to get into a fight with, and actually be prepared to fight.
Just one person with a gun and some skills could have made a difference and changed the outcome drastically.
Think about Eli Dickens.
The 22 year old young man who stopped what would have been a massacre in a shopping mall. He did so by carrying a gun daily and practicing. When the time came, he did not run, he took the fight to the enemy and stopped a massacre before really got going.
This is The Way.
Well [bleep]. Didn't read all of this but plenty. Sir, I posted the summer carry question about a holster/ pocket carry for a kahr 380 for shorts and flip flops here at the beach.
My God, now I'm the left anti gun pussy that let the Maine killer loose? Hold your horses there big guy. My post is now the nobody shot back, left hatred anthem.
OK take a breath it's just an internet forum. I know I've earned my opinion.
Semper Fi
Master Gunnery Sergeant USMC (Ret).
Sir, I don't think it was your post that prompted this thread, but rather some responses to Mackay's answer to it.
Last month there was a thread in the handguns section called "Summer Carry".
It started out as the typical "what pocket gun do you carry in the hot weather" type thread.
I answered with the following post:
What gun is the minimum you are willing to get into a gunfight against one or possibly two armed bad guys with? Armed as in both have at minimum, handguns. Are you willing to get into that gunfight, which is a fight to the death, (them or you) with a Kahr that holds 7 rounds of .380?
For me, I know what my choices are. Each has to decide. Personally, I don't own any of the micro guns, that hold a very small amount of rounds, as I don't want to fall into the habit of grabbing what is comfortable, rather than what will actually get the job done. My only exception is a J Frame, and it is relegated to BUG role, and on exceedingly rare occasions a primary, but pretty much 99+% of the time I carry a gun I am willing to actually fight with and can turn in a good performance while using.
I posted again showing what I had chosen to carry that day, which was my Glock 22, .40 S&W a reload and a knife.
One of the more condescending members (Wrapids) stated:
"None of my friends in central Wisconsin feel a need to carry a gun."
Then followed up afterwards by telling one of our other members that since they carried a gun and ammo, with this post:
"Sounds like you should leave a war zone"
I posted a few days later that I was packing the following, showing this picture:
To which Wrapids replied:
"You oughtta leave a war zone."
Here is the thing.
I RARELY comment about much of the stuff that goes on and try to stay out of it for the most part.
That said. This condescending liberal attitude is exactly why we just ended up with 18 people dead and 13 more wounded. Over 30 people total, plus all their families. Kids, spouses, parents, all the people who cared for them.
NOBODY SHOT BACK.
When the fight started, nobody took the fight to the enemy. Nobody stood their ground and put rounds into the bad guy.
NOBODY.
So Wrapids, maybe you should feel the need to carry a gun, because NOBODY is coming to save you.
It is up to individuals to protect themselves. It is not the job of the government, or the nanny state. You are responsible for your own protection and those you care for who are unable to protect themselves.
You and NOBODY ELSE.
Your typical liberal won't fight his own fight, but he sure will call the police and have someone else do it. He is too scared to do the job himself, but not too scared to put someone else at risk. Pathetic.
Back on point,
You don't get to pick and choose when these things are going to happen or where. They are like a gift from a stranger. You have to unwrap it and deal with it, no matter what it is. Odds are that the situation will not be in your favor as the bad guy(s) will have planned it that way. So deal with it.
That is why you carry a gun you are willing to get into a fight with, and actually be prepared to fight.
Just one person with a gun and some skills could have made a difference and changed the outcome drastically.
Think about Eli Dickens.
The 22 year old young man who stopped what would have been a massacre in a shopping mall. He did so by carrying a gun daily and practicing. When the time came, he did not run, he took the fight to the enemy and stopped a massacre before really got going.
This is The Way.
Unfortunately law abiding citizens tend to obey the law. Many states, Maine included, prohibit firearms carry where alcohol is served.
It is unfortunate that responsible citizens are prohibited from carrying a firearm in some places. Those are the kinds of places where an inconspicuous pocket gun can make all the difference.
Indeed, just be aware that your State of TX deems it a Felony to carry in a bar or restaurant that generates +51% of its revenue from alcohol sales. TX is the only State that makes such carry a felony.
Unless your name is Hunter Biden, getting caught or using your pocket pistol while in a bar in TX could very likely relieve you of your Second Amenment Rights for life.
Damn... it is hard to have a serious discussion on the Fire.
No it isn't, and this thread opened my eyes. I'm looking for heavier throwing rocks.
I was feeling undergunned considerably, carrying my little Ruger LCP 380, but I had to consider recent rapid onset physical limitations. I went up a step to the EC9, not a big step, however.
What's the Fire's opinion of the Sig P365?
They are great guns, I shoot mine well. With my poor skills I can still hit a paper plate at 25 yards every time with the little gun. Then you can buy the X Macro 17 round magazine and it fits the original P365, feeds perfect. With the extended original magazine and an X macro magazine in your pocket you have a pretty good amount of ammunition.
Last month there was a thread in the handguns section called "Summer Carry".
It started out as the typical "what pocket gun do you carry in the hot weather" type thread.
I answered with the following post:
What gun is the minimum you are willing to get into a gunfight against one or possibly two armed bad guys with? Armed as in both have at minimum, handguns. Are you willing to get into that gunfight, which is a fight to the death, (them or you) with a Kahr that holds 7 rounds of .380?
For me, I know what my choices are. Each has to decide. Personally, I don't own any of the micro guns, that hold a very small amount of rounds, as I don't want to fall into the habit of grabbing what is comfortable, rather than what will actually get the job done. My only exception is a J Frame, and it is relegated to BUG role, and on exceedingly rare occasions a primary, but pretty much 99+% of the time I carry a gun I am willing to actually fight with and can turn in a good performance while using.
I posted again showing what I had chosen to carry that day, which was my Glock 22, .40 S&W a reload and a knife.
One of the more condescending members (Wrapids) stated:
"None of my friends in central Wisconsin feel a need to carry a gun."
Then followed up afterwards by telling one of our other members that since they carried a gun and ammo, with this post:
"Sounds like you should leave a war zone"
I posted a few days later that I was packing the following, showing this picture:
To which Wrapids replied:
"You oughtta leave a war zone."
Here is the thing.
I RARELY comment about much of the stuff that goes on and try to stay out of it for the most part.
That said. This condescending liberal attitude is exactly why we just ended up with 18 people dead and 13 more wounded. Over 30 people total, plus all their families. Kids, spouses, parents, all the people who cared for them.
NOBODY SHOT BACK.
When the fight started, nobody took the fight to the enemy. Nobody stood their ground and put rounds into the bad guy.
NOBODY.
So Wrapids, maybe you should feel the need to carry a gun, because NOBODY is coming to save you.
It is up to individuals to protect themselves. It is not the job of the government, or the nanny state. You are responsible for your own protection and those you care for who are unable to protect themselves.
You and NOBODY ELSE.
Your typical liberal won't fight his own fight, but he sure will call the police and have someone else do it. He is too scared to do the job himself, but not too scared to put someone else at risk. Pathetic.
Back on point,
You don't get to pick and choose when these things are going to happen or where. They are like a gift from a stranger. You have to unwrap it and deal with it, no matter what it is. Odds are that the situation will not be in your favor as the bad guy(s) will have planned it that way. So deal with it.
That is why you carry a gun you are willing to get into a fight with, and actually be prepared to fight.
Just one person with a gun and some skills could have made a difference and changed the outcome drastically.
Think about Eli Dickens.
The 22 year old young man who stopped what would have been a massacre in a shopping mall. He did so by carrying a gun daily and practicing. When the time came, he did not run, he took the fight to the enemy and stopped a massacre before really got going.
This is The Way.
Unfortunately law abiding citizens tend to obey the law. Many states, Maine included, prohibit firearms carry where alcohol is served.
It is unfortunate that responsible citizens are prohibited from carrying a firearm in some places. Those are the kinds of places where an inconspicuous pocket gun can make all the difference.
Indeed, just be aware that your State of TX deems it a Felony to carry in a bar or restaurant that generates +51% of its revenue from alcohol sales. TX is the only State that makes such carry a felony.
Unless your name is Hunter Biden, getting caught or using your pocket pistol while in a bar in TX could very likely relieve you of your Second Amenment Rights for life.
Having a good sense of the area and not putting yourself in a bad situation is key. Take Austin for instance. I stay out of there now. If I defended myself in Austin with a firearm, legally or not, I will likely be charged by the DA there, who is aggressively “woke”.
Last month there was a thread in the handguns section called "Summer Carry".
It started out as the typical "what pocket gun do you carry in the hot weather" type thread.
I answered with the following post:
What gun is the minimum you are willing to get into a gunfight against one or possibly two armed bad guys with? Armed as in both have at minimum, handguns. Are you willing to get into that gunfight, which is a fight to the death, (them or you) with a Kahr that holds 7 rounds of .380?
For me, I know what my choices are. Each has to decide. Personally, I don't own any of the micro guns, that hold a very small amount of rounds, as I don't want to fall into the habit of grabbing what is comfortable, rather than what will actually get the job done. My only exception is a J Frame, and it is relegated to BUG role, and on exceedingly rare occasions a primary, but pretty much 99+% of the time I carry a gun I am willing to actually fight with and can turn in a good performance while using.
I posted again showing what I had chosen to carry that day, which was my Glock 22, .40 S&W a reload and a knife.
One of the more condescending members (Wrapids) stated:
"None of my friends in central Wisconsin feel a need to carry a gun."
Then followed up afterwards by telling one of our other members that since they carried a gun and ammo, with this post:
"Sounds like you should leave a war zone"
I posted a few days later that I was packing the following, showing this picture:
To which Wrapids replied:
"You oughtta leave a war zone."
Here is the thing.
I RARELY comment about much of the stuff that goes on and try to stay out of it for the most part.
That said. This condescending liberal attitude is exactly why we just ended up with 18 people dead and 13 more wounded. Over 30 people total, plus all their families. Kids, spouses, parents, all the people who cared for them.
NOBODY SHOT BACK.
When the fight started, nobody took the fight to the enemy. Nobody stood their ground and put rounds into the bad guy.
NOBODY.
So Wrapids, maybe you should feel the need to carry a gun, because NOBODY is coming to save you.
It is up to individuals to protect themselves. It is not the job of the government, or the nanny state. You are responsible for your own protection and those you care for who are unable to protect themselves.
You and NOBODY ELSE.
Your typical liberal won't fight his own fight, but he sure will call the police and have someone else do it. He is too scared to do the job himself, but not too scared to put someone else at risk. Pathetic.
Back on point,
You don't get to pick and choose when these things are going to happen or where. They are like a gift from a stranger. You have to unwrap it and deal with it, no matter what it is. Odds are that the situation will not be in your favor as the bad guy(s) will have planned it that way. So deal with it.
That is why you carry a gun you are willing to get into a fight with, and actually be prepared to fight.
Just one person with a gun and some skills could have made a difference and changed the outcome drastically.
Think about Eli Dickens.
The 22 year old young man who stopped what would have been a massacre in a shopping mall. He did so by carrying a gun daily and practicing. When the time came, he did not run, he took the fight to the enemy and stopped a massacre before really got going.
This is The Way.
Unfortunately law abiding citizens tend to obey the law. Many states, Maine included, prohibit firearms carry where alcohol is served.
It is unfortunate that responsible citizens are prohibited from carrying a firearm in some places. Those are the kinds of places where an inconspicuous pocket gun can make all the difference.
Indeed, just be aware that your State of TX deems it a Felony to carry in a bar or restaurant that generates +51% of its revenue from alcohol sales. TX is the only State that makes such carry a felony.
Unless your name is Hunter Biden, getting caught or using your pocket pistol while in a bar in TX could very likely relieve you of your Second Amenment Rights for life.
Having a good sense of the area and not putting yourself in a bad situation is key. Take Austin for instance. I stay out of there now. If I defended myself in Austin with a firearm, legally or not, I will likely be charged by the DA there, who is aggressively “woke”.
Sounds like a plan, but what about the rest of TX.
Do you carry your pocket pistol into establishments that TX law specifically forbids and attaches criminal felony charges for doing so.
Last month there was a thread in the handguns section called "Summer Carry".
It started out as the typical "what pocket gun do you carry in the hot weather" type thread.
I answered with the following post:
What gun is the minimum you are willing to get into a gunfight against one or possibly two armed bad guys with? Armed as in both have at minimum, handguns. Are you willing to get into that gunfight, which is a fight to the death, (them or you) with a Kahr that holds 7 rounds of .380?
For me, I know what my choices are. Each has to decide. Personally, I don't own any of the micro guns, that hold a very small amount of rounds, as I don't want to fall into the habit of grabbing what is comfortable, rather than what will actually get the job done. My only exception is a J Frame, and it is relegated to BUG role, and on exceedingly rare occasions a primary, but pretty much 99+% of the time I carry a gun I am willing to actually fight with and can turn in a good performance while using.
I posted again showing what I had chosen to carry that day, which was my Glock 22, .40 S&W a reload and a knife.
One of the more condescending members (Wrapids) stated:
"None of my friends in central Wisconsin feel a need to carry a gun."
Then followed up afterwards by telling one of our other members that since they carried a gun and ammo, with this post:
"Sounds like you should leave a war zone"
I posted a few days later that I was packing the following, showing this picture:
To which Wrapids replied:
"You oughtta leave a war zone."
Here is the thing.
I RARELY comment about much of the stuff that goes on and try to stay out of it for the most part.
That said. This condescending liberal attitude is exactly why we just ended up with 18 people dead and 13 more wounded. Over 30 people total, plus all their families. Kids, spouses, parents, all the people who cared for them.
NOBODY SHOT BACK.
When the fight started, nobody took the fight to the enemy. Nobody stood their ground and put rounds into the bad guy.
NOBODY.
So Wrapids, maybe you should feel the need to carry a gun, because NOBODY is coming to save you.
It is up to individuals to protect themselves. It is not the job of the government, or the nanny state. You are responsible for your own protection and those you care for who are unable to protect themselves.
You and NOBODY ELSE.
Your typical liberal won't fight his own fight, but he sure will call the police and have someone else do it. He is too scared to do the job himself, but not too scared to put someone else at risk. Pathetic.
Back on point,
You don't get to pick and choose when these things are going to happen or where. They are like a gift from a stranger. You have to unwrap it and deal with it, no matter what it is. Odds are that the situation will not be in your favor as the bad guy(s) will have planned it that way. So deal with it.
That is why you carry a gun you are willing to get into a fight with, and actually be prepared to fight.
Just one person with a gun and some skills could have made a difference and changed the outcome drastically.
Think about Eli Dickens.
The 22 year old young man who stopped what would have been a massacre in a shopping mall. He did so by carrying a gun daily and practicing. When the time came, he did not run, he took the fight to the enemy and stopped a massacre before really got going.
This is The Way.
Well [bleep]. Didn't read all of this but plenty. Sir, I posted the summer carry question about a holster/ pocket carry for a kahr 380 for shorts and flip flops here at the beach.
My God, now I'm the left anti gun pussy that let the Maine killer loose? Hold your horses there big guy. My post is now the nobody shot back, left hatred anthem.
OK take a breath it's just an internet forum. I know I've earned my opinion.
Semper Fi
Master Gunnery Sergeant USMC (Ret).
Sir, I don't think it was your post that prompted this thread, but rather some responses to Mackay's answer to it.
Thank you for your service!
Yup, Mackay wasn't referring to you, he was referring to a leftist retard named wrapids.
BTW, I carry a 1911 w/ extra mag when at the beach in shorts and a wife beater, I'm not willing to have anything less and with all that's going on today I'm rethinking that and considering going to my Glock 41simply for capacity reasons.
Hands up, who's ever fought a crackhead? Gunfight or otherwise. I'll check back tomorrow morning EST for an answer and an explanation as to how you subdued the threat.
I've asked this question before and it's gone unanswered. Curious to see what it generates on this thread.
I have tussled with a crackhead but he was not high at the time.
A junkie also and he was high but very easy to deal with. Until he came down and started schitting all the time.
I did not shoot either one.
Makes sense. I'm sure you know my reasoning as to why I asked what I did.
Last month there was a thread in the handguns section called "Summer Carry".
It started out as the typical "what pocket gun do you carry in the hot weather" type thread.
I answered with the following post:
What gun is the minimum you are willing to get into a gunfight against one or possibly two armed bad guys with? Armed as in both have at minimum, handguns. Are you willing to get into that gunfight, which is a fight to the death, (them or you) with a Kahr that holds 7 rounds of .380?
For me, I know what my choices are. Each has to decide. Personally, I don't own any of the micro guns, that hold a very small amount of rounds, as I don't want to fall into the habit of grabbing what is comfortable, rather than what will actually get the job done. My only exception is a J Frame, and it is relegated to BUG role, and on exceedingly rare occasions a primary, but pretty much 99+% of the time I carry a gun I am willing to actually fight with and can turn in a good performance while using.
I posted again showing what I had chosen to carry that day, which was my Glock 22, .40 S&W a reload and a knife.
One of the more condescending members (Wrapids) stated:
"None of my friends in central Wisconsin feel a need to carry a gun."
Then followed up afterwards by telling one of our other members that since they carried a gun and ammo, with this post:
"Sounds like you should leave a war zone"
I posted a few days later that I was packing the following, showing this picture:
To which Wrapids replied:
"You oughtta leave a war zone."
Here is the thing.
I RARELY comment about much of the stuff that goes on and try to stay out of it for the most part.
That said. This condescending liberal attitude is exactly why we just ended up with 18 people dead and 13 more wounded. Over 30 people total, plus all their families. Kids, spouses, parents, all the people who cared for them.
NOBODY SHOT BACK.
When the fight started, nobody took the fight to the enemy. Nobody stood their ground and put rounds into the bad guy.
NOBODY.
So Wrapids, maybe you should feel the need to carry a gun, because NOBODY is coming to save you.
It is up to individuals to protect themselves. It is not the job of the government, or the nanny state. You are responsible for your own protection and those you care for who are unable to protect themselves.
You and NOBODY ELSE.
Your typical liberal won't fight his own fight, but he sure will call the police and have someone else do it. He is too scared to do the job himself, but not too scared to put someone else at risk. Pathetic.
Back on point,
You don't get to pick and choose when these things are going to happen or where. They are like a gift from a stranger. You have to unwrap it and deal with it, no matter what it is. Odds are that the situation will not be in your favor as the bad guy(s) will have planned it that way. So deal with it.
That is why you carry a gun you are willing to get into a fight with, and actually be prepared to fight.
Just one person with a gun and some skills could have made a difference and changed the outcome drastically.
Think about Eli Dickens.
The 22 year old young man who stopped what would have been a massacre in a shopping mall. He did so by carrying a gun daily and practicing. When the time came, he did not run, he took the fight to the enemy and stopped a massacre before really got going.
This is The Way.
Well [bleep]. Didn't read all of this but plenty. Sir, I posted the summer carry question about a holster/ pocket carry for a kahr 380 for shorts and flip flops here at the beach.
My God, now I'm the left anti gun pussy that let the Maine killer loose? Hold your horses there big guy. My post is now the nobody shot back, left hatred anthem.
OK take a breath it's just an internet forum. I know I've earned my opinion.
Semper Fi
Master Gunnery Sergeant USMC (Ret).
Master Gunns My Friend,
You began a great conversation. None of this was aimed in any negative fashion towards you. I offered a different thought process.
Then the liberal "Wrapid" with his condescension chose to show his true nature and take his high and mighty approach. I pointed out that I have a different approach to what I carry, based on life experiences, both good and bad.
Over the years I have been tempted to buy a pocket type gun and let myself slide into that mode.
Funny thing. It did not take long for reality to teach me a lesson that such thinking was not a good idea.
I had not been back from the war for a year and thought I was done with all that. I was working for a local agency, doing my own thing and a call came out. Long story short it was a mess. Literally dozens of LE involved. I have no idea how many agencies involved, though it was local state and federal. But I ended up in a shooting with the bad guy who had already killed one innocent person, plus one young officer. Dozens of citizens everywhere, and it was chaos.
I ended up cornering the guy who took a hostage. It was a mess. Finally we saved her. The guy had been shooting at my face from literal spitting distance, while ducking behind the hostage, and not giving a clean shot. Plus the lights had been knocked out. All the advantages were in his favor, and various backwards agency equipment policies prevented me from having effective and proper tools for the job.
Eventually she was rescued, but it should have been over in a couple minutes, not multiple hours. I won't go into more detail out of respect for her as well as the family of the person who was murdered. They deserve that. The trauma that the woman was put through for hours was terrible.
Bottom line is that no matter if it is a huge metropolis or medium size city or small rural town, there are drugged up nut jobs and people who will kill you for pretty much the thrill of it, or for the keys to your car. They don't care at all. Your life means nothing. If they have a mental health issue that is not being treated properly, they may not see you as human at all, and may think you are a literal demon. Untreated paranoid schizophrenia is extremely dangerous for example. There are an incredible amount of people who have mental health issues and keep it in check and it is never an issue. Unfortunately, sometimes the more severe cases slip through the cracks and tragedies occur.
When put into those situations and facing someone or a couple people who have zero issue with killing you, whether it is your job or not, you really don't get a choice. You are simply reacting to their actions. You can either fight or die. The choice is yours. You can choose to run, but often the victims of mass shooting are shot in the back. So again, the choice is yours. Plus the whole " Nike Defense" is utter nonsense. The vast majority of the time predators pick victims who they can overpower. Thinking you can outrun a younger, stronger, faster predator is fantasy thinking. Just watch a few crime videos of thugs hopping over convenience store counters and take note as their shoes don't even touch the counter. Can you do that?
On that note, I hear it all the time "But, But, I am not a cop, its not my job, I can just walk away". That is wishful thinking.
In 2017 in las Vegas, the killer did not let people walk away. He targeted anybody. He killed 60 people and wounded hundreds more.
In 2016 at the Orlando bar shooting the killer did not let people walk away. He targeted anybody. He killed 49 and wounded 50 something more.
I could go on and on.
Just like Lewiston Maine, sometimes you don't get to walk away. You have to face reality and deal with a problem.
So, today, just like yesterday this is what I am carrying. A full size 1911 and a couple spare mags. Using a quality IWB rig I find it comfortable enough and it is a rig that I perform well enough that should I need it, it would serve me well per the original post.
Mr. Sagebrush or Flave, do either of you have any experience with the G23?
They are good guns. I have had a couple over the years, but ended up sending them down the road, as I shot the G19s better. Plus I never really had an issue concealing the full size frame and I shoot the G17/G22 better due to the grip size, and longer sight radius.
Depending on ones hand and body size though, it may make an ideal platform for someone. It has potential to be a very solid all around choice for a trail and town type gun. But for me, I just tend to stick with full size guns due to my size XL hands.
I have a question….., how am I supposed to know if an establishment derives 51% of their income from alcohol sales? Call them and have them text me their books on a pdf? It’s as stupid as reading Arizona’s state trusty land regulations.
Handguns will be sufficient to ambush an AR wielding assailant. But for a genuine "gun" fight, you better have some type of carbine close at hand. Generally speaking, unless you're just *real* good with a handgun you're not going to be effective at 150 yards.
Any Joe Blow who has played around a bit at a shooting range will be able to pop you at 150 yards with an AR.
Hands up, who's ever fought a crackhead? Gunfight or otherwise. I'll check back tomorrow morning EST for an answer and an explanation as to how you subdued the threat.
I've asked this question before and it's gone unanswered. Curious to see what it generates on this thread.
I cannot say if it was crack, but plenty of meh heads, heroin, coke and a combo of other crap.
Hands up, who's ever fought a crackhead? Gunfight or otherwise. I'll check back tomorrow morning EST for an answer and an explanation as to how you subdued the threat.
I've asked this question before and it's gone unanswered. Curious to see what it generates on this thread.
Arrested hundreds of druggies in a previous career as a floorwalker during college for several years. Many of them fought for various reasons. Never had a gun only handcuffs. Back then though bouncing a methhead off the pavement a few times and chokeholds to subdue them was not a problem. Took a few guns and many knives, needles, etc off them during those arrests. Precamera phone era.
Handguns will be sufficient to ambush an AR wielding assailant. But for a genuine "gun" fight, you better have some type of carbine close at hand. Generally speaking, unless you're just *real* good with a handgun you're not going to be effective at 150 yards.
Any Joe Blow who has played around a bit at a shooting range will be able to pop you at 150 yards with an AR.
I disagree.
There are a numerous accounts of LE and citizens putting down dudes who were armed with long guns, using only their handguns.
Eli Dickens immediately comes to mind.
Last year, 2022.
The Greenwood Park Mall shooting.
It lasted less than one minute.
Three people killed, two more injured before Eli Dickens dropped the shooter.
The bad guy was armed with an AR 15 and a handgun.
When the shooting started, Dickens didn't run away, he actually advanced on the shooter and took the fight to him.
From a distance of 40 yards, Dickens fired 10 rounds and hit the killer 8 times. That ended a massacre before it got worse.
Another one from earlier this year in Las Vegas that the media did their best to keep quiet.
An "active shooting" began at a high rise condo began. The bad guy had an AR-15 and started shooting up the lobby. But before he got far, he was dropped like a sack.
Ends up an employee was armed with a handgun, saw what was taking place, and dumped him. Game over.
The point is that you CAN win with a handgun. Keep your cool, do your job. Just because someone has a long gun, does not mean that they suddenly have become impervious to bullets. They still react to bullets the same as anyone else. So keep your head, focus on what you need to do and get to work.
In 2014 an Austin cop shot and dropped an AK wielding gunman from approximately 100 yards with his handgun. He was also holding the reigns of two horses...
Here is one from a few years back. Straight up phenomenal performance by a citizen who shot a killer who was shooting at an LEO. The bad guy had already murdered some folks and was shooting at a responding deputy. A citizen seeing this, retrieved a .357 magnum and from a distance of 165 yards, he shot and wounded the gunman, hitting him in the thigh.
The killer in this case was armed with a 30-30 rifle and was shooting at the responding officer and another resident. The fact is that with practice and calm nerves, you can do good work with a handgun. You can save lives, just like the 66 year old man, Vic Stacy.
I have a question….., how am I supposed to know if an establishment derives 51% of their income from alcohol sales? Call them and have them text me their books on a pdf? It’s as stupid as reading Arizona’s state trusty land regulations.
The business itself has to do the math and submit their numbers to the state.
Then they are required by law to post a State Approved sign on the entrance.
I believe it is called a 30-06 sign, or maybe their 30-07 sign.
If you cross that sign while carrying you have committed a felony.
Only State in the Union to impose such harsh penalties for carrying.
I have a question….., how am I supposed to know if an establishment derives 51% of their income from alcohol sales? Call them and have them text me their books on a pdf? It’s as stupid as reading Arizona’s state trusty land regulations.
There will be a big sign out front that you can't miss.
I drew a 365xl out of my pocket and drilled my dog before I could tell Young Richard to cover his ears.
That was at 30 yards and moving out.....
Me and that dog was both surprised.
Shooting a little dog (especially your own as it is moving away from you) is in no way like being in a fight. And what could posses a man to take a 30 yard shot on his own dog with a handgun? Was there an imminent threat?
We all know they are target rich opportunities for killers, active shooters, or whatever label you want to put on the bad guy who seeks them out and chooses them as his place to commit his heinous acts.
You know he is not going to follow the law.
You have to make a choice as an individual.
You can either choose to frequent those establishments without the means to protect yourself and your loved ones.
You can choose to discreetly carry and go about your business and have the ability to protect your family if something bad happens.
or You can choose to not go into those places.
The choice is entirely yours, and only you can make it.
Having a handgun may allow you to save your family, yourself and possibly others, as well as lessen the damage caused by a person planning on going on a shooting rampage.
You deal with that in the immediacy.
Dealing with violating the law after having stopped a shooting rampage is a tomorrow problem. The prosecutor has to decide if he is going to pursue charges or not. The fact is you have to be alive to worry about such things.
I know what my choices are, and each person can make their own.
Does terrorist that performs sepukku after the event pay attention to any type of signs? It would seem there are no safe places except police stations, gun stores,....?
Handguns will be sufficient to ambush an AR wielding assailant. But for a genuine "gun" fight, you better have some type of carbine close at hand. Generally speaking, unless you're just *real* good with a handgun you're not going to be effective at 150 yards.
Any Joe Blow who has played around a bit at a shooting range will be able to pop you at 150 yards with an AR.
Handguns will be sufficient to ambush an AR wielding assailant. But for a genuine "gun" fight, you better have some type of carbine close at hand. Generally speaking, unless you're just *real* good with a handgun you're not going to be effective at 150 yards.
Any Joe Blow who has played around a bit at a shooting range will be able to pop you at 150 yards with an AR.
Ambush is part of gun fighting.
Go pick blueberries.
You mean like they did in old west, back alley from behind?
Handguns will be sufficient to ambush an AR wielding assailant. But for a genuine "gun" fight, you better have some type of carbine close at hand. Generally speaking, unless you're just *real* good with a handgun you're not going to be effective at 150 yards.
Any Joe Blow who has played around a bit at a shooting range will be able to pop you at 150 yards with an AR.
Ambush is part of gun fighting.
Go pick blueberries.
You mean like they did in old west, back alley from behind?
We all know they are target rich opportunities for killers, active shooters, or whatever label you want to put on the bad guy who seeks them out and chooses them as his place to commit his heinous acts.
You know he is not going to follow the law.
You have to make a choice as an individual.
You can either choose to frequent those establishments without the means to protect yourself and your loved ones.
You can choose to discreetly carry and go about your business and have the ability to protect your family if something bad happens.
or You can choose to not go into those places.
The choice is entirely yours, and only you can make it.
Having a handgun may allow you to save your family, yourself and possibly others, as well as lessen the damage caused by a person planning on going on a shooting rampage.
You deal with that in the immediacy.
Dealing with violating the law after having stopped a shooting rampage is a tomorrow problem. The prosecutor has to decide if he is going to pursue charges or not. The fact is you have to be alive to worry about such things.
I know what my choices are, and each person can make their own.
my beliefs align with Mac i think If I am doing my job the only person who knows I am carrying is me, and the only time that's going to change is if the boogeyman shows up. IF i should have to use a gun while in a "gun free zone" SHOULD our DA file charges i will take my chances with a jury and an attorney who is skilled enough to play on the reptilian sections of the brains of those jury members
Handguns will be sufficient to ambush an AR wielding assailant. But for a genuine "gun" fight, you better have some type of carbine close at hand. Generally speaking, unless you're just *real* good with a handgun you're not going to be effective at 150 yards.
Any Joe Blow who has played around a bit at a shooting range will be able to pop you at 150 yards with an AR.
Ambush is part of gun fighting.
Go pick blueberries.
You mean like they did in old west, back alley from behind?
Yes. That's how gunfights in the old west actually happened. I'm only aware of one instance of the "Meet me at noon on Mainstreet" actually occurring. That shooting was over a card game and a watch.
Handguns will be sufficient to ambush an AR wielding assailant. But for a genuine "gun" fight, you better have some type of carbine close at hand. Generally speaking, unless you're just *real* good with a handgun you're not going to be effective at 150 yards.
Any Joe Blow who has played around a bit at a shooting range will be able to pop you at 150 yards with an AR.
Ambush is part of gun fighting.
Go pick blueberries.
You mean like they did in old west, back alley from behind?
Yes. That's how gunfights in the old west actually happened. I'm only aware of one instance of the "Meet me at noon on Mainstreet" actually occurring. That shooting was over a card game and a watch.
Handguns will be sufficient to ambush an AR wielding assailant. But for a genuine "gun" fight, you better have some type of carbine close at hand. Generally speaking, unless you're just *real* good with a handgun you're not going to be effective at 150 yards.
Any Joe Blow who has played around a bit at a shooting range will be able to pop you at 150 yards with an AR.
Ambush is part of gun fighting.
Go pick blueberries.
You mean like they did in old west, back alley from behind?
Handguns will be sufficient to ambush an AR wielding assailant. But for a genuine "gun" fight, you better have some type of carbine close at hand. Generally speaking, unless you're just *real* good with a handgun you're not going to be effective at 150 yards.
Any Joe Blow who has played around a bit at a shooting range will be able to pop you at 150 yards with an AR.
Ambush is part of gun fighting.
Go pick blueberries.
You mean like they did in old west, back alley from behind?
Damn right! If you can get behind the murderous cretin, shoot him one in the back of the head and another or two in the center of his spine. That'll do.
Hi MS. I just moved about 35 miles SE of Wi Rapids. Rapids isn't to far from Steven's Point a college town. Maybe the libtard [bleep] rubbed off on him. I agree with you I usually carry a Sig P365 X or a Glock 30S. With extra mags,pepper spray usually Fox Labs or Sabre, an auto knife a reload and my phone. Lots of meth heads in Wisconsin. Code Blue cam on You Tube has lots of videos from LaCrosse WI. Another liberal cesspool.
I just saw that a dude with a rifle, pistol multiple mags for each and a IED's was found dead in a car up in Glenwood Springs Colorado. I guess he was in the parking lot of some adventure park.
I just saw that a dude with a rifle, pistol multiple mags for each and a IED's was found dead in a car up in Glenwood Springs Colorado. I guess he was in the parking lot of some adventure park.
Anyone else seeing anything?
Took the family to that park last summer.
Reportedly security found him dead before the park opened. No indications of how long he was dead when they found him.
Pretty easy to figure out. Refuse to be a victim.. In this example, as well as what MacKay was talking about above. Make your decision. Are you going to allow yourself to be a victim?
Handguns will be sufficient to ambush an AR wielding assailant. But for a genuine "gun" fight, you better have some type of carbine close at hand. Generally speaking, unless you're just *real* good with a handgun you're not going to be effective at 150 yards.
Any Joe Blow who has played around a bit at a shooting range will be able to pop you at 150 yards with an AR.
I disagree.
There are a numerous accounts of LE and citizens putting down dudes who were armed with long guns, using only their handguns.
Eli Dickens immediately comes to mind.
Last year, 2022.
The Greenwood Park Mall shooting.
It lasted less than one minute.
Three people killed, two more injured before Eli Dickens dropped the shooter.
The bad guy was armed with an AR 15 and a handgun.
When the shooting started, Dickens didn't run away, he actually advanced on the shooter and took the fight to him.
From a distance of 40 yards, Dickens fired 10 rounds and hit the killer 8 times. That ended a massacre before it got worse.
Another one from earlier this year in Las Vegas that the media did their best to keep quiet.
An "active shooting" began at a high rise condo began. The bad guy had an AR-15 and started shooting up the lobby. But before he got far, he was dropped like a sack.
Ends up an employee was armed with a handgun, saw what was taking place, and dumped him. Game over.
The point is that you CAN win with a handgun. Keep your cool, do your job. Just because someone has a long gun, does not mean that they suddenly have become impervious to bullets. They still react to bullets the same as anyone else. So keep your head, focus on what you need to do and get to work.
In 2014 an Austin cop shot and dropped an AK wielding gunman from approximately 100 yards with his handgun. He was also holding the reigns of two horses...
Here is one from a few years back. Straight up phenomenal performance by a citizen who shot a killer who was shooting at an LEO. The bad guy had already murdered some folks and was shooting at a responding deputy. A citizen seeing this, retrieved a .357 magnum and from a distance of 165 yards, he shot and wounded the gunman, hitting him in the thigh.
The killer in this case was armed with a 30-30 rifle and was shooting at the responding officer and another resident. The fact is that with practice and calm nerves, you can do good work with a handgun. You can save lives, just like the 66 year old man, Vic Stacy.
I don't know why so many people think 100yds is impossible with a handgun. I shot IHMSA from the time it started in 1976 quit when I was about 30, I cleared the ram stands many times and I've seen people that could clear it way better than I.
This has been an interesting thread for me to read as I have recently been contemplating carrying for the first time in my life. I never thought I needed to, and honestly never wanted to, the responsibility that goes along with it is daunting. Earlier this month I came home in the daylight to catch someone trying to break into my house. I confronted him with no weapons, chased him for ~1/2 mile so I could give LEO a real time, accurate location of him. Thankfully they caught him ~2 hours later. He was a well known dirt bag, wanted in two states.
I have never been in a situation like this, every home invasion scenario I had thought of happened at night, while I was sleeping, and I have a loaded pistol on my nightstand. So, I have recently been thinking about carrying, but I know very little about it. I have a few questions that I was hoping some experienced members would answer for me.
I was thinking about the Sig 365 X-Macro, I have heard good things about it, I checked it out, it felt nicely in my hands, but I haven't shot it. I have two Glocks, a G20, G45, and a couple of .22 pistols now.
I was thinking red dot for sure, should I go with a light too? I am on the short side @ 5'6", does anyone think the Sig would be too large for me to CC? Do I need to buy some kind of CC insurance, if so is there a recommended source? What CC holsters would be good for me to look at? Anything else I should know, besides practice, practice, practice?
I appreciate any advice, recommendations, words of wisdom ya'll are willing to provide, thank you.
I'm not a pro gunslinger, the wisdom is sound in the OP.
My possibly misguided belief is something is better than nothing and if it isn't *comfortable* I don't follow through and carry anything on my person. While nothing I've tried goes unnoticed from a comfort standpoint I've recently been toting a Hellcat Pro, appendix. Not full size, but, *for me* large enough that I am confident as I'm going to be if the need should arise. 15+1 and a spare 15 rounder is ok by me - going to pick up a 17 rounder here when I see one on the shelf, should be more better.
All that to say there is always a compromise somewhere, except for the fact that Wrapids is a twat. On that there can be no compromise.
If the folks in my CHL class are any indicator I’m guessing most folks should not be engaging an active shooter at the wood grill buffet on Saturday night. Told my wife if we’re ever out and see any of the idiots in that class we’re leaving the location abruptly.
One idiot shot into the floor after the idiot leading the class thought it would be a great idea to do some draw and shoot drills with folks who’d never shot a gun before.
If the folks in my CHL class are any indicator I’m guessing most folks should not be engaging an active shooter at the wood grill buffet on Saturday night. Told my wife if we’re ever out and see any of the idiots in that class we’re leaving the location abruptly.
One idiot shot into the floor after the idiot leading the class thought it would be a great idea to do some draw and shoot drills with folks who’d never shot a gun before.
If the folks in my CHL class are any indicator I’m guessing most folks should not be engaging an active shooter at the wood grill buffet on Saturday night. Told my wife if we’re ever out and see any of the idiots in that class we’re leaving the location abruptly.
One idiot shot into the floor after the idiot leading the class thought it would be a great idea to do some draw and shoot drills with folks who’d never shot a gun before.
If the folks in my CHL class are any indicator I’m guessing most folks should not be engaging an active shooter at the wood grill buffet on Saturday night. Told my wife if we’re ever out and see any of the idiots in that class we’re leaving the location abruptly.
One idiot shot into the floor after the idiot leading the class thought it would be a great idea to do some draw and shoot drills with folks who’d never shot a gun before.
If the folks in my CHL class are any indicator I’m guessing most folks should not be engaging an active shooter at the wood grill buffet on Saturday night. Told my wife if we’re ever out and see any of the idiots in that class we’re leaving the location abruptly.
One idiot shot into the floor after the idiot leading the class thought it would be a great idea to do some draw and shoot drills with folks who’d never shot a gun before.
If the folks in my CHL class are any indicator I’m guessing most folks should not be engaging an active shooter at the wood grill buffet on Saturday night. Told my wife if we’re ever out and see any of the idiots in that class we’re leaving the location abruptly.
One idiot shot into the floor after the idiot leading the class thought it would be a great idea to do some draw and shoot drills with folks who’d never shot a gun before.
Geez. How the hell did you end up in that class?
At the time, it was required by the state and this class was local to me.
It was pretty representative of society, 90% should’ve been humanely put down.
If the folks in my CHL class are any indicator I’m guessing most folks should not be engaging an active shooter at the wood grill buffet on Saturday night. Told my wife if we’re ever out and see any of the idiots in that class we’re leaving the location abruptly.
One idiot shot into the floor after the idiot leading the class thought it would be a great idea to do some draw and shoot drills with folks who’d never shot a gun before.
Geez. How the hell did you end up in that class?
At the time it was required by the state and it was local to me
If the folks in my CHL class are any indicator I’m guessing most folks should not be engaging an active shooter at the wood grill buffet on Saturday night. Told my wife if we’re ever out and see any of the idiots in that class we’re leaving the location abruptly.
One idiot shot into the floor after the idiot leading the class thought it would be a great idea to do some draw and shoot drills with folks who’d never shot a gun before.
some of us understand exactly what you're saying. but then again we're not all just like you.. make sure you put on a half by the way my CCW class has been many many years ago. the ones taught on my range are not talk quite the same as just basic
Grip frames on the G26, G27 and G29 are way too short, IMHO.
26 is probably the worst choice available as a concealed carry piece other than the Hk sk size guns and subcompact 1911 offerings. Too fat to carry and too short to shoot accurately coupled with a smaller than widely available magazine capacity.
If the folks in my CHL class are any indicator I’m guessing most folks should not be engaging an active shooter at the wood grill buffet on Saturday night. Told my wife if we’re ever out and see any of the idiots in that class we’re leaving the location abruptly.
One idiot shot into the floor after the idiot leading the class thought it would be a great idea to do some draw and shoot drills with folks who’d never shot a gun before.
some of us understand exactly what you're saying. but then again we're not all just like you.. make sure you put on a half by the way my CCW class has been many many years ago. the ones taught on my range are not talk quite the same as just basic
My parents bought me a Taurus 92 for my 40th Birthday, but being a full size pistol it was a bit cumbersome, as concealed carry at that time was illegal in Texas. Due to the nature of my occupation at that time, and the places in BFE I had to frequent, it was worth the risk.
Around 2002 I started carrying a Glock 36, 45 ACP.
IIRC, I carried it for several years and put down a number of wounded deer and hogs with it.
Then I got charged by this beast. I put 7 hardball rounds in him in starting about 10 yds. out. He expired at my feet while i was clicking and empty mag.
After that it was no more Mr. Nice Guy. I went out and directly grabbed a Glock 20 SF in 10 mm. I figure sixteen friends are better than 7 or 8.
But now being an old man I have "old man's butt" and a full size pistol and a spare mag tend to expose my shortcomings.
So I compromised for a bit and started carrying a Glock 43 in town.
Glocks are butt ugly, but I've yet to have on malfunction.
When the Sig P365 came on the market I decided to try it as one could have a creatively easy to conceal pistola with capabiltity of 10, 12 or 16 rounds.
It turns out that I shoot it as well as a full size pistol and I"ve only had 1 failure to feed of the three Sig P365 iterations I've owned and carried. I refuse to carry a pistol where an FTF is a factor.
I have others, but these are the 4 that see the most service.
The Glock 17 with light and laser is on the nightstand each night, and accompany me at night when roaming my lease.
The Glock 43 w/ light and laser is available close at hand in case things go bump in the night.
The P 365 Tac Ops w/ red dot is carried in the day (17+1). I"m not a red dot fan at night. Night time I carry the P365, night sights and 12 round mag.
I consider myself fortunate that in +/-33 years of carry I've only had to display my weapon to diffuse the situation.
My parents bought me a Taurus 92 for my 40th Birthday, but being a full size pistol it was a bit cumbersome, as concealed carry at that time was illegal in Texas. Due to the nature of my occupation at that time, and the places in BFE I had to frequent, it was worth the risk.
Around 2002 I started carrying a Glock 36, 45 ACP.
IIRC, I carried it for several years and put down a number of wounded deer and hogs with it.
Then I got charged by this beast. I put 7 hardball rounds in him in starting about 10 yds. out. He expired at my feet while i was clicking and empty mag.
After that it was no more Mr. Nice Guy. I went out and directly grabbed a Glock 20 SF in 10 mm. I figure sixteen friends are better than 7 or 8.
But now being an old man I have "old man's butt" and a full size pistol and a spare mag tend to expose my shortcomings.
So I compromised for a bit and started carrying a Glock 43 in town.
Glocks are butt ugly, but I've yet to have on malfunction.
When the Sig P365 came on the market I decided to try it as one could have a creatively easy to conceal pistola with capabiltity of 10, 12 or 16 rounds.
It turns out that I shoot it as well as a full size pistol and I"ve only had 1 failure to feed of the three Sig P365 iterations I've owned and carried. I refuse to carry a pistol where an FTF is a factor.
I have others, but these are the 4 that see the most service.
The Glock 17 with light and laser is on the nightstand each night, and accompany me at night when roaming my lease.
The Glock 43 w/ light and laser is available close at hand in case things go bump in the night.
The P 365 Tac Ops w/ red dot is carried in the day (17+1). I"m not a red dot fan at night. Night time I carry the P365, night sights and 12 round mag.
I consider myself fortunate that in +/-33 years of carry I've only had to display my weapon to diffuse the situation.
ya!
GWB
Good stuff GW. IIRC, you got that Glock 43 from me.
I too carried a Glock 36 for a long time after they first came out. Like you, I finished off several hogs with it and killed one doe and one whitetail buck with it too. Went back to carrying my LW Commander in 45 acp, for quite a while, then went with a Glock 32 in .357 Sig for the longest time.
Now the. Glock 32 is my dedicated “truck gun”. Both my Glock 17 and 19X are house guns equipped with light / laser combo’s. Mostly carry either my Sig P365 or my Springfield HellCat nowadays on my person. Both with factory 15 round mags. Unless I’m out hunting, then it’s my Glock 20. No telling how many hogs I’ve killed with it now.
Mostly carry either my Sig P365 or my Springfield HellCat nowadays on my person. Both with factory 15 round mags. Unless I’m out hunting, then it’s my Glock 20. No telling how many hogs I’ve killed with it now.
I don't want to get involved with the all the discussion here but just want to defend the good folks in Maine. I had the same thoughts about no one carrying a gun in a Constitutional carry state. Then it was pointed out to me that after Constitutional carry passed the democratic administration in Maine proceeded to make many places gun free zones. The bowling alley had a bar attached and as such was deemed a gun free zone due to being an establishment where liquor was served making concealed or open carry illegal.
Last month there was a thread in the handguns section called "Summer Carry".
It started out as the typical "what pocket gun do you carry in the hot weather" type thread.
I answered with the following post:
What gun is the minimum you are willing to get into a gunfight against one or possibly two armed bad guys with? Armed as in both have at minimum, handguns. Are you willing to get into that gunfight, which is a fight to the death, (them or you) with a Kahr that holds 7 rounds of .380?
For me, I know what my choices are. Each has to decide. Personally, I don't own any of the micro guns, that hold a very small amount of rounds, as I don't want to fall into the habit of grabbing what is comfortable, rather than what will actually get the job done. My only exception is a J Frame, and it is relegated to BUG role, and on exceedingly rare occasions a primary, but pretty much 99+% of the time I carry a gun I am willing to actually fight with and can turn in a good performance while using.
I posted again showing what I had chosen to carry that day, which was my Glock 22, .40 S&W a reload and a knife.
One of the more condescending members (Wrapids) stated:
"None of my friends in central Wisconsin feel a need to carry a gun."
Then followed up afterwards by telling one of our other members that since they carried a gun and ammo, with this post:
"Sounds like you should leave a war zone"
I posted a few days later that I was packing the following, showing this picture:
To which Wrapids replied:
"You oughtta leave a war zone."
Here is the thing.
I RARELY comment about much of the stuff that goes on and try to stay out of it for the most part.
That said. This condescending liberal attitude is exactly why we just ended up with 18 people dead and 13 more wounded. Over 30 people total, plus all their families. Kids, spouses, parents, all the people who cared for them.
NOBODY SHOT BACK.
When the fight started, nobody took the fight to the enemy. Nobody stood their ground and put rounds into the bad guy.
NOBODY.
So Wrapids, maybe you should feel the need to carry a gun, because NOBODY is coming to save you.
It is up to individuals to protect themselves. It is not the job of the government, or the nanny state. You are responsible for your own protection and those you care for who are unable to protect themselves.
You and NOBODY ELSE.
Your typical liberal won't fight his own fight, but he sure will call the police and have someone else do it. He is too scared to do the job himself, but not too scared to put someone else at risk. Pathetic.
Back on point,
You don't get to pick and choose when these things are going to happen or where. They are like a gift from a stranger. You have to unwrap it and deal with it, no matter what it is. Odds are that the situation will not be in your favor as the bad guy(s) will have planned it that way. So deal with it.
That is why you carry a gun you are willing to get into a fight with, and actually be prepared to fight.
Just one person with a gun and some skills could have made a difference and changed the outcome drastically.
Think about Eli Dickens.
The 22 year old young man who stopped what would have been a massacre in a shopping mall. He did so by carrying a gun daily and practicing. When the time came, he did not run, he took the fight to the enemy and stopped a massacre before really got going.
This is The Way.
Mackay,
I like your choice of tools. Carry what you’re willing to fight with - words to LIVE by!!
26 is probably the worst choice available as a concealed carry piece other than the Hk sk size guns and subcompact 1911 offerings. Too fat to carry and too short to shoot accurately coupled with a smaller than widely available magazine capacity.
How are they too fat to carry. I don't even notice I'm carrying mine, and it conceals extremely well under an untucked pull over shirt. As for shooting, for me, it's not much inferior to a 19.
Mackay and others who have multiple EDC pistols. I understand that you might have a different gun for hot weather and cold weather applications. But from a tactical standpoint, thinking muscle memory here, would the best approach be to have as few platforms as possible and for those platforms to be similar? Say a Glock 19 and a Glock 48. Grip angle the same, controls in the same place, sight picture the same etc.
When I was on active duty in the Coast Guard we were carrying Beretta 92s. I started working part time as a reserve deputy for Harrison County. I went with a stainless 92 so that there was no relearning, retraining etc and muscle memory was identical. Seems like there would be similar value in being as standardized as possible with EDC.
26 is probably the worst choice available as a concealed carry piece other than the Hk sk size guns and subcompact 1911 offerings. Too fat to carry and too short to shoot accurately coupled with a smaller than widely available magazine capacity.
Not even close to the worst.
Sincerely, Every 22lr, 32apc, and .380 on the planet.
Excellent thread, Mac, lots of insight from varying points of view. I have three EDC choices for the most part, a P-365XL (12 rounds) a Colt LW Commander 45 ACP and a Glock 31. Mostly here in Florida the 365 gets the nod. I was turned onto one by JWP and it's just a practical tool with an adequate caliber and 12 rounds.
Hi MS. I just moved about 35 miles SE of Wi Rapids. Rapids isn't to far from Steven's Point a college town. Maybe the libtard [bleep] rubbed off on him. I agree with you I usually carry a Sig P365 X or a Glock 30S. With extra mags,pepper spray usually Fox Labs or Sabre, an auto knife a reload and my phone. Lots of meth heads in Wisconsin. Code Blue cam on You Tube has lots of videos from LaCrosse WI. Another liberal cesspool.
A G30S is a pretty decent little gun in terms of size, weight and on board capacity, for its caliber. With my hand size I had to undercut the trigger guard on mine to get my hand further up on it. Plus I removed a finger groove to make the front strap flat. I have carried mine a good bit it the mountains for when weight is important, but still want a large caliber. Normally it is in a chest pack. I still prefer a full size gun, like the G21 for carrying in Grizzly country, but the G30S is not a bad setup, if it fits your hands.
Much respect for Mr Sagebrush’s post and his perspective. Over the 45ish years of choosing to be my own protective circle I have carried 1911, sw29, sw586, Taurus 66, Taurus 85 and even a 45lc in the platform the young Sagebrush is busting ballon’s with. I did what it took to be proficient with all of them, carried all of them well and as deep as requirements dictated and all with enough ammo to carry the fight forward. The most important point is that I chose to do so. We are entering a time of great choosing. The choices we are facing will be clearer as time progresses.
A G30S is a pretty decent little gun in terms of size, weight and on board capacity, for its caliber. With my hand size I had to undercut the trigger guard on mine to get my hand further up on it. Plus I removed a finger groove to make the front strap flat. I have carried mine a good bit it the mountains for when weight is important, but still want a large caliber. Normally it is in a chest pack. I still prefer a full size gun, like the G21 for carrying in Grizzly country, but the G30S is not a bad setup, if it fits your hands.
I love the concept of the 30S, but I bought one very early on upon their release, and kept getting false lockbacks, i.e., the slide locking back while there's still ammo in the mag. I experimented with different ways to grip it, to make sure I wasn't contacting the slide release, but nothing worked. Sent it back, and they told me they couldn't find anything wrong with it, so I sold it at a gun show.
I was really disappointed I couldn't get it to work for me. My Glock 30 never does that, nor any other Glock I own, and that's like a dozen different models. Not once. But on the 30S, I couldn't get through a magazine without at least one false lockback.
Mackay and others who have multiple EDC pistols. I understand that you might have a different gun for hot weather and cold weather applications. But from a tactical standpoint, thinking muscle memory here, would the best approach be to have as few platforms as possible and for those platforms to be similar? Say a Glock 19 and a Glock 48. Grip angle the same, controls in the same place, sight picture the same etc.
When I was on active duty in the Coast Guard we were carrying Beretta 92s. I started working part time as a reserve deputy for Harrison County. I went with a stainless 92 so that there was no relearning, retraining etc and muscle memory was identical. Seems like there would be similar value in being as standardized as possible with EDC.
Just thinking out loud.
The answer is "It depends".
How much time and effort are you willing to spend on developing your skill sets?
You can master multiple action types if you put in the work. The flip side is that you will never master even a single one if you very rarely do anything other than buy a gun and shoot 100 rounds a year, just popping a few magazines at a piece of cardboard.
Delving further into this, there are 4 levels of competence. They are as follows:
1.Unconscious incompetence.
2.Conscious incompetence.
3.Conscious competence.
4.Unconscious competence.
For those not familiar, I cut and pasted the Wiki definitions below, as I honestly don't feel like writing my own lengthy definitions, and the wiki versions are close enough. I will briefly touch on them after the wiki definitions though.
Unconscious incompetence
The individual does not understand or know how to do something and does not necessarily recognize the deficit. They may deny the usefulness of the skill. The individual must recognize their own incompetence, and the value of the new skill, before moving on to the next stage. The length of time an individual spends in this stage depends on the strength of the stimulus to learn.[1]
Conscious incompetence
Though the individual does not understand or know how to do something, they recognize the deficit, as well as the value of a new skill in addressing the deficit. The making of mistakes can be integral to the learning process at this stage.
Conscious competence
The individual understands or knows how to do something. It may be broken down into steps, and there is heavy conscious involvement in executing the new skill. However, demonstrating the skill or knowledge requires concentration, and if it is broken, they lapse into incompetence.[1]
Conscious competence
The individual has had so much practice with a skill that it has become "second nature" and can be performed easily. As a result, the skill can be performed while executing another task. The individual may be able to teach it to others, depending upon how and when it was learned.
Now to go further into that as it relates to this topic.
Some gun owners do not recognize (Unconscious incompetence) that they are quite incompetent with a handgun. They are oblivious to the fact that they don't have even the most basic of skill sets and handle guns so poorly that often luck and infrequent handling is what keeps them from shooting themselves or others. In high stress situations they are basket cases and quite dangerous.
The next type (conscious incompetence) is not at all a bad thing. For example, I know that I cannot play a piano. That is conscious incompetence. Some people know their skill sets with a pistol, or multiple action types are poor. That is not a bad thing. It is actually good that it is recognized.
Next, being conscious competence. The person has to think about his actions while doing them but can get through an event if he maintains focus. However he really needs to concentrate, especially in stressful environments.
Last is conscious competence. This is where we don't even have to think about an action, we can simply do it at a natural level. The example I like to use is driving a stick shift vehicle after you have been doing so for 20 years. When you were first learning, you messed it up, and were consciously incompetent. Then you became consciously competent. Eventually you don't even pay attention and are at the level of unconscious competence. You simply drive and don't give it a thought.
Shooting various handguns (or any weapons system) is the same way.
If you put in the time and effort, you don't have to think about it. You can master it. It is a matter of how much time, training and effort you are willing to put into it. People who are operating at a higher level at a particular skill set were not simply born with it. They put in hundreds and usually thousands of hours of practice.
Most gun carriers who are casual shooters would be better off picking one action type, such as an S&W M&P or Glock w/o a thumb safety to manipulate, or a DA revolver, or a some other version. The brand is less important, as long as the gun is extremely reliable. If a person wants a thumb safety, that's fine too. Just keep it the same. Under stress people tend to fumble a bit, so keeping things simple is a very good thing.
Personally I tend to carry mostly Glocks and 1911s. The manner in which I draw both is the exact same. So if I was drawing a 1911 the thumb safety would come off. If the Glock somehow had a thumb safety it would come off as well, due to the way I draw. It is exactly the same. I also consider guns like the Glock and 1911 very close to the same in terms if actions. What I mean by that is that they both have the same short trigger pull, and a very short reset. So in practical terms they do not operate much differently.
Now with that said, I generally don't have an issue switching between various action types. I can shoot a DA/SA semi auto fairly well. Something like an S&W 4563 works well for me. I don't shoot it quite as well as a Glock or 1911, but that is more due to the time and round count I have on the Glock and 1911s.
So in summary, most would be better off picking a single platform and practicing to the point of unconscious competence. When they can simply draw and shoot at a target and not even think about the draw process then they are doing great.
Mackay and others who have multiple EDC pistols. I understand that you might have a different gun for hot weather and cold weather applications. But from a tactical standpoint, thinking muscle memory here, would the best approach be to have as few platforms as possible and for those platforms to be similar? Say a Glock 19 and a Glock 48. Grip angle the same, controls in the same place, sight picture the same etc.
When I was on active duty in the Coast Guard we were carrying Beretta 92s. I started working part time as a reserve deputy for Harrison County. I went with a stainless 92 so that there was no relearning, retraining etc and muscle memory was identical. Seems like there would be similar value in being as standardized as possible with EDC.
Just thinking out loud.
The answer is "It depends".
How much time and effort are you willing to spend on developing your skill sets?
You can master multiple action types if you put in the work. The flip side is that you will never master even a single one if you very rarely do anything other than buy a gun and shoot 100 rounds a year, just popping a few magazines at a piece of cardboard.
Delving further into this, there are 4 levels of competence. They are as follows:
1.Unconscious incompetence.
2.Conscious incompetence.
3.Conscious competence.
4.Unconscious competence.
For those not familiar, I cut and pasted the Wiki definitions below, as I honestly don't feel like writing my own lengthy definitions, and the wiki versions are close enough. I will briefly touch on them after the wiki definitions though.
Unconscious incompetence
The individual does not understand or know how to do something and does not necessarily recognize the deficit. They may deny the usefulness of the skill. The individual must recognize their own incompetence, and the value of the new skill, before moving on to the next stage. The length of time an individual spends in this stage depends on the strength of the stimulus to learn.[1]
Conscious incompetence
Though the individual does not understand or know how to do something, they recognize the deficit, as well as the value of a new skill in addressing the deficit. The making of mistakes can be integral to the learning process at this stage.
Conscious competence
The individual understands or knows how to do something. It may be broken down into steps, and there is heavy conscious involvement in executing the new skill. However, demonstrating the skill or knowledge requires concentration, and if it is broken, they lapse into incompetence.[1]
Conscious competence
The individual has had so much practice with a skill that it has become "second nature" and can be performed easily. As a result, the skill can be performed while executing another task. The individual may be able to teach it to others, depending upon how and when it was learned.
Now to go further into that as it relates to this topic.
Some gun owners do not recognize (Unconscious incompetence) that they are quite incompetent with a handgun. They are oblivious to the fact that they don't have even the most basic of skill sets and handle guns so poorly that often luck and infrequent handling is what keeps them from shooting themselves or others. In high stress situations they are basket cases and quite dangerous.
The next type (conscious incompetence) is not at all a bad thing. For example, I know that I cannot play a piano. That is conscious incompetence. Some people know their skill sets with a pistol, or multiple action types are poor. That is not a bad thing. It is actually good that it is recognized.
Next, being conscious competence. The person has to think about his actions while doing them but can get through an event if he maintains focus. However he really needs to concentrate, especially in stressful environments.
Last is conscious competence. This is where we don't even have to think about an action, we can simply do it at a natural level. The example I like to use is driving a stick shift vehicle after you have been doing so for 20 years. When you were first learning, you messed it up, and were consciously incompetent. Then you became consciously competent. Eventually you don't even pay attention and are at the level of unconscious competence. You simply drive and don't give it a thought.
Shooting various handguns (or any weapons system) is the same way.
If you put in the time and effort, you don't have to think about it. You can master it. It is a matter of how much time, training and effort you are willing to put into it. People who are operating at a higher level at a particular skill set were not simply born with it. They put in hundreds and usually thousands of hours of practice.
Most gun carriers who are casual shooters would be better off picking one action type, such as an S&W M&P or Glock w/o a thumb safety to manipulate, or a DA revolver, or a some other version. The brand is less important, as long as the gun is extremely reliable. If a person wants a thumb safety, that's fine too. Just keep it the same. Under stress people tend to fumble a bit, so keeping things simple is a very good thing.
Personally I tend to carry mostly Glocks and 1911s. The manner in which I draw both is the exact same. So if I was drawing a 1911 the thumb safety would come off. If the Glock somehow had a thumb safety it would come off as well, due to the way I draw. It is exactly the same. I also consider guns like the Glock and 1911 very close to the same in terms if actions. What I mean by that is that they both have the same short trigger pull, and a very short reset. So in practical terms they do not operate much differently.
Now with that said, I generally don't have an issue switching between various action types. I can shoot a DA/SA semi auto fairly well. Something like an S&W 4563 works well for me. I don't shoot it quite as well as a Glock or 1911, but that is more due to the time and round count I have on the Glock and 1911s.
So in summary, most would be better off picking a single platform and practicing to the point of unconscious competence. When they can simply draw and shoot at a target and not even think about the draw process then they are doing great.
Y'all got me to load up the G22 and throw that into the go-to lockbock in my shop. There's snow on the ground, and 15 rounds of .40 HST with a 22 round reload gives me warm fuzzies.
Y'all got me to load up the G22 and throw that into the go-to lockbock in my shop. There's snow on the ground, and 15 rounds of .40 HST with a 22 round reload gives me warm fuzzies.
Goalie is that the 180 gr hst Federal white box stuff? How do you like it?. Mb
I liked the “competence” discussion. Unconscious incompetence was really dangerous in a jet. Not knowing how incompetent you are in gun handling or in an aircraft is the toughest thing to get past. Perfect parallel. Lots of good discussion and things to think about out of this thread.
As it starts to get colder I’ll have better concealment with a jacket so I’ll be switching from my Sig 938 to my 45 Officer 1911. Same manual at arms, just a bit bigger and heavier.
Y'all got me to load up the G22 and throw that into the go-to lockbock in my shop. There's snow on the ground, and 15 rounds of .40 HST with a 22 round reload gives me warm fuzzies.
Goalie is that the 180 gr hst Federal white box stuff? How do you like it?. Mb
Mackay and others who have multiple EDC pistols. I understand that you might have a different gun for hot weather and cold weather applications. But from a tactical standpoint, thinking muscle memory here, would the best approach be to have as few platforms as possible and for those platforms to be similar? Say a Glock 19 and a Glock 48. Grip angle the same, controls in the same place, sight picture the same etc.
When I was on active duty in the Coast Guard we were carrying Beretta 92s. I started working part time as a reserve deputy for Harrison County. I went with a stainless 92 so that there was no relearning, retraining etc and muscle memory was identical. Seems like there would be similar value in being as standardized as possible with EDC.
Just thinking out loud.
For me similar is better. I figured this out after shooting a 1911 for a few years on my own time and then I shot in a unit ran 3 gun match with issue guns and the first shot from the holster with the M9 I swiped the safety down like it was a 1911. It cost me a couple of seconds. I gave the 1911 to my dad and bought myself a 92FS.
Later in my career we started getting Glocks so I picked one of those up for personal use. I didn't like the Glock so I sold it and stuck with the M9 at work and the 92 for personal use.
Mackay and others who have multiple EDC pistols. I understand that you might have a different gun for hot weather and cold weather applications. But from a tactical standpoint, thinking muscle memory here, would the best approach be to have as few platforms as possible and for those platforms to be similar? Say a Glock 19 and a Glock 48. Grip angle the same, controls in the same place, sight picture the same etc.
When I was on active duty in the Coast Guard we were carrying Beretta 92s. I started working part time as a reserve deputy for Harrison County. I went with a stainless 92 so that there was no relearning, retraining etc and muscle memory was identical. Seems like there would be similar value in being as standardized as possible with EDC.
Just thinking out loud.
Get a full size gun that you carry and shoot all the time.
Take all the compact/subcompact schit and throw it in the trash.
I liked the “competence” discussion. Unconscious incompetence was really dangerous in a jet. Not knowing how incompetent you are in gun handling or in an aircraft is the toughest thing to get past. Perfect parallel. Lots of good discussion and things to think about out of this thread.
As it starts to get colder I’ll have better concealment with a jacket so I’ll be switching from my Sig 938 to my 45 Officer 1911. Same manual at arms, just a bit bigger and heavier.
Do you carry with the semiwadcutter 45 loads?
No, I usually don't though I have a bunch on hand from many years back, and am still shooting them. Plus I made run of them a while back.
My standard carry .45 load is a +P 250 grain Hard Cast Flat Point. It runs 925 FPS from a 5" gun. That is right where the original .45 Colt revolver loads were at that did such a good number on both man and beast for so long. This simply does it is a much easier to shoot, and higher capacity platform. Penetrates like crazy too.
If I recall right, when JWP475 shot it into gel blocks it went over 3 feet of blocks. I have [punched it clean through some freshy killed cattle skulls and never been able to catch one yet
It is a load I sell a lot of, especially to people hiking and hunting in large predator country
It is without question the load I carry most in Grizzly and Black bear country.
People tend to automatically gravitate towards a 10mm, as they are not aware that there are high performance .45 ACP loads out there. I like the 10mm myself, but having cut my teeth on the .45, I have a tendency to shoot it more.
I liked the “competence” discussion. Unconscious incompetence was really dangerous in a jet. Not knowing how incompetent you are in gun handling or in an aircraft is the toughest thing to get past. Perfect parallel. Lots of good discussion and things to think about out of this thread.
As it starts to get colder I’ll have better concealment with a jacket so I’ll be switching from my Sig 938 to my 45 Officer 1911. Same manual at arms, just a bit bigger and heavier.
Do you carry with the semiwadcutter 45 loads?
No, I usually don't though I have a bunch on hand from many years back, and am still shooting them. Plus I made run of them a while back.
My standard carry .45 load is a +P 250 grain Hard Cast Flat Point. It runs 925 FPS from a 5" gun. That is right where the original .45 Colt revolver loads were at that did such a good number on both man and beast for so long. This simply does it is a much easier to shoot, and higher capacity platform. Penetrates like crazy too.
If I recall right, when JWP475 shot it into gel blocks it went over 3 feet of blocks. I have [punched it clean through some freshy killed cattle skulls and never been able to catch one yet
It is a load I sell a lot of, especially to people hiking and hunting in large predator country
It is without question the load I carry most in Grizzly and Black bear country.
People tend to automatically gravitate towards a 10mm, as they are not aware that there are high performance .45 ACP loads out there. I like the 10mm myself, but having cut my teeth on the .45, I have a tendency to shoot it more.
Been waiting on somebody to ask about the .45 Super. Is this too much ++p++ for the ACP case or ACP frames? Considered a used G21 a while back just to see.
Y'all got me to load up the G22 and throw that into the go-to lockbock in my shop. There's snow on the ground, and 15 rounds of .40 HST with a 22 round reload gives me warm fuzzies.
Goalie is that the 180 gr hst Federal white box stuff? How do you like it?. Mb
Yeah, the 180 shoots well out of my G22.
OK thanks February before last I scored 21 boxes of it for $270 figured it was a steal. Normally just shoot lead or fmj loads of 180 grns...mb
The Colt was my old duty gun and competition gun from the 90s before I went to Glocks. I had it rebuilt and blued before I semi retired it. Have only owned one stainless 1911, a Colt Officer's ACP bought in 1991.
A few have mistaken this early Kimber for a stainless gun, but it just doesn't have much for finish left. It saw a very heavy round count at one point in time.
It fits my hand decent. I usually buy XXL gloves. My hands are not necessarily wide but I have long fingers. It also seems to fit very nicely in the IWB holster I have for a Glock 19. I got a screaming deal on it from a family friend with 5 mags and a leather mag holder. I and my Wife both carry Sig P365 X pistols most days but I frequently carry the Glock 30s as well. When the Walther PDP came out I got one in 4.5 and 4 inch models. Very ergonomic and while I don't have thousands of rounds thru each one. So far they have been 100% and the trigger is amazing. I hope everyone stays safe and be vigilant. Things look like they are spiraling downward in this Country as well as the rest of the world.
Time and laws change perspectives. I used to carry a full size pistol then about 8-10 years back I was talking to a retired leo. He carried a small compact and I asked him about it , he said it doesn't print and a small one is better than one that prints because you will have it instead of leaving it at home. The law changed we have constitutional carry and you don't need a ccw permit. I have one for the ease of 4473 transfers and nobody worries much about printing anymore. So you see.some bigger guns plain wore openly. I like full size pistols and MS is dead on..mb
No I meant this Glock. The slide looks blue. Maybe it's just the pic.
It's from a reflection from the blue box next to it. Notice that the thumb slot on the grip is blue also. It bounced off the camera/phone when it flashed.
No I meant this Glock. The slide looks blue. Maybe it's just the pic.
Ahhh,
Nope, it is very blue.
I had the gen 3 slide cut for an optic and the cut needed refinished. Plus the slide had a good bit of wear, though I don't really care much about that. So I opted to have it cerakoted. I went with the blue rather than the typical "Tactical" colors you see. I have seen enough desert tans, and OD greens that I just wanted something different.
Plus I knew blue would cause some LE trainer autists to screech and have fits of the vapors, since blue can "only" be used in training guns. You know you can only do things one way, ever. Ever. Ever..... It is for the children...
So anyways, I went with blue.
The Glock Tenifer finish was pretty worn when I got it, and in doing the development of the +P 170 grain Poly load that would become the production load, I ended firing a little over 2,000 rds over the course of a year or so.
Here is what it looked like prior to getting a new coating:
It will never be used in a training environment, and I have other Glocks if I needed to do such things. That said, I spent so many years training/teaching shooting related subjects I have absolutely ZERO desire to do anymore of it.
Sometimes I feel I am overthinking where the hard cover and shooting lanes are in each and every building I am in.
And then . . .
Some lunatic decides to institute another mass murder.
BMT
If you see somebody walk into your local Piggly Wiggly with an AR15 or AK, put one in their cranium immediately. Don't stand there and overthink it. They are not there to get a jar of pickles.
No I meant this Glock. The slide looks blue. Maybe it's just the pic.
It's from a reflection from the blue box next to it. Notice that the thumb slot on the grip is blue also. It bounced off the camera/phone when it flashed.
Nope the slide is blue.
Typically guns used for sims are also blue and referred to as a "Blue Gun". The use of the blue color is to help prevent a real gun being used in Force on Force training.
Personally I would never paint a real gun blue but as long as the gun never gets anywhere near F on F training it's probably not the end of the world.
Originally Posted by local_dirt
If you see somebody walk into your local Piggly Wiggly with an AR15 or AK, put one in their cranium immediately. Don't stand there and overthink it. They are not there to get a jar of pickles.
You will go to prison for shooting people who are exercising their Right to Keep and Bear Arms, as you should.
No I meant this Glock. The slide looks blue. Maybe it's just the pic.
It's from a reflection from the blue box next to it. Notice that the thumb slot on the grip is blue also. It bounced off the camera/phone when it flashed.
Nope the slide is blue.
Typically guns used for sims are also blue and referred to as a "Blue Gun". The use of the blue color is to help prevent a real gun being used in Force on Force training.
Personally I would never paint a real gun blue but as long as the gun never gets anywhere near F on F training it's probably not the end of the world.
Originally Posted by local_dirt
If you see somebody walk into your local Piggly Wiggly with an AR15 or AK, put one in their cranium immediately. Don't stand there and overthink it. They are not there to get a jar of pickles.
You will go to prison for shooting people who are exercising their Right to Keep and Bear Arms, as you should.
You're not paying attention again. Follow the little ball. Got it now? There ya go.
If you see somebody walk into your local Piggly Wiggly with an AR15 or AK, put one in their cranium immediately. Don't stand there and overthink it. They are not there to get a jar of pickles.
My thoughts:
1-If I shoot first, I am the criminal under most state laws. The threat has to take some form of hostile action in order to be a threat to my life or the lives of others. Raising the gun to fire and shouting Allah Akbar would (probably) constitute a threat. But each case will be different.
2-Head shots are low percentage shots. Assuming the Lunatic has opened fire, Lunatic will be moving, a pelvic/hip shot moves less, is larger, and more likely to make the lunatic fall down and thus stop shooting.
3-The four gun safety rules are designed for firefights: I have to be aware of the backstop, people fleeing for cover, etc.
4-I have a primary duty to my own family first. Thus, I may decide to pick up my 3 year old grandson and run away if the lunatic is moving away from me. I am assuming its just me and my grandson at the store in that fact pattern.
5-Every lunatic situation is different. But there are similarities from which we can learn.
I carry a tiny .380 "for the times I can't carry a gun". Its just a bit better than my tactical folder, the way I think about it. If at all possible, I like a Glock 43X with the Shield 15 rounders. Its as small as I can go and still fight with and still have more ammo.
If you see somebody walk into your local Piggly Wiggly with an AR15 or AK, put one in their cranium immediately. Don't stand there and overthink it. They are not there to get a jar of pickles.
Originally Posted by BMT
My thoughts:
1-If I shoot first, I am the criminal under most state laws. The threat has to take some form of hostile action in order to be a threat to my life or the lives of others. Raising the gun to fire and shouting Allah Akbar would (probably) constitute a threat. But each case will be different.
2-Head shots are low percentage shots. Assuming the Lunatic has opened fire, Lunatic will be moving, a pelvic/hip shot moves less, is larger, and more likely to make the lunatic fall down and thus stop shooting.
3-The four gun safety rules are designed for firefights: I have to be aware of the backstop, people fleeing for cover, etc.
4-I have a primary duty to my own family first. Thus, I may decide to pick up my 3 year old grandson and run away if the lunatic is moving away from me. I am assuming its just me and my grandson at the store in that fact pattern.
5-Every lunatic situation is different. But there are similarities from which we can learn.
If you see somebody walk into your local Piggly Wiggly with an AR15 or AK, put one in their cranium immediately. Don't stand there and overthink it. They are not there to get a jar of pickles.
Better be careful there... in some states openly carrying a long gun is perfectly legal. And there are people who do it. I saw a goofy sumbitch in my local Rural King with an AR slung across his chest, wife, and kid in tow as he pushed a shopping cart.
If you see somebody walk into your local Piggly Wiggly with an AR15 or AK, put one in their cranium immediately. Don't stand there and overthink it. They are not there to get a jar of pickles.
Better be careful there... in some states openly carrying a long gun is perfectly legal. And there are people who do it. I saw a goofy sumbitch in my local Rural King with an AR slung across his chest, wife, and kid in tow as he pushed a shopping cart.
Mogc, if one of us on this board at this point in time in our lives cannot tell the difference between somebody that is on a stalk or is just carrying his gun to show that he believes in his second Amendment rights, well then, I got nothing for ya.
Since most folk sling and carry an AR in ready position then YES, there are those that might find it hard to tell the difference!
If some [bleep] has his face up in an optic and I'm ready position or is looking through iron sights, please don't try to tell me he's just exercising his Second Amendment rights. I know the difference. If somebody else doesn't, well I don't have anything for them. Their actions are their own and they may end up losing their lives and those of their families because they can't get their ass in gear when it is time.
I'm done here. Enough with the stupid ass speculation.
Since most folk sling and carry an AR in ready position then YES, there are those that might find it hard to tell the difference!
If some [bleep] has his face up in an optic and I'm ready position or is looking through iron sights, please don't try to tell me he's just exercising his Second Amendment rights. I know the difference. If somebody else doesn't, well I don't have anything for them. Their actions are their own and they may end up losing their lives and those of their families because they can't get their ass in gear when it is time.
I'm done here. Enough with the stupid ass speculation.
Hopefully you will think on some of the good advice others have given.
Shooting everyone who is carrying is a bad plan.
You might also consider the guy with the AR might have just taken down the real bad guy on the scene so maybe "overthink it" and make sure anyone who you try and shoot in the head is actually a real bad guy.
Since most folk sling and carry an AR in ready position then YES, there are those that might find it hard to tell the difference!
If some [bleep] has his face up in an optic and I'm ready position or is looking through iron sights, please don't try to tell me he's just exercising his Second Amendment rights. I know the difference. If somebody else doesn't, well I don't have anything for them. Their actions are their own and they may end up losing their lives and those of their families because they can't get their ass in gear when it is time.
I'm done here. Enough with the stupid ass speculation.
There are some thick heads running around here........
Since most folk sling and carry an AR in ready position then YES, there are those that might find it hard to tell the difference!
If some [bleep] has his face up in an optic and I'm ready position or is looking through iron sights, please don't try to tell me he's just exercising his Second Amendment rights. I know the difference. If somebody else doesn't, well I don't have anything for them. Their actions are their own and they may end up losing their lives and those of their families because they can't get their ass in gear when it is time.
I'm done here. Enough with the stupid ass speculation.
Hopefully you will think on some of the good advice others have given.
Shooting everyone who is carrying is a bad plan.
You might also consider the guy with the AR might have just taken down the real bad guy on the scene so maybe "overthink it" and make sure anyone who you try and shoot in the head is actually a real bad guy.
Food for thought.
Stop pontificating, you fool. I know when somebody's trying to kill innocents. Stop with the fugking stupidity.
Since most folk sling and carry an AR in ready position then YES, there are those that might find it hard to tell the difference!
If some [bleep] has his face up in an optic and I'm ready position or is looking through iron sights, please don't try to tell me he's just exercising his Second Amendment rights. I know the difference. If somebody else doesn't, well I don't have anything for them. Their actions are their own and they may end up losing their lives and those of their families because they can't get their ass in gear when it is time.
I'm done here. Enough with the stupid ass speculation.
There are some thick heads running around here........
Hopefully you will think on some of the good advice others have given.
Shooting everyone who is carrying is a bad plan.
You might also consider the guy with the AR might have just taken down the real bad guy on the scene so maybe "overthink it" and make sure anyone who you try and shoot in the head is actually a real bad guy.
Food for thought.
Originally Posted by local_dirt
Stop pontificating, you fool. I know when somebody's trying to kill innocents. Stop with the fugking stupidity.
So you lied and are not "done"?
Let us rehash exactly what you posted.
Originally Posted by local_dirt
If you see somebody walk into your local Piggly Wiggly with an AR15 or AK, put one in their cranium immediately. Don't stand there and overthink it. They are not there to get a jar of pickles.
You advocated shooting anyone carrying an AR in a Piggle Wiggly and not "overthinking it."
When many posters here called such actions into question and explain that such actions were likely to get you thrown in prison you backpeddaled and tried to move the goal posts.
Why not just admit you made a dumb post full of false bravado and move on?
Hopefully you will think on some of the good advice others have given.
Shooting everyone who is carrying is a bad plan.
You might also consider the guy with the AR might have just taken down the real bad guy on the scene so maybe "overthink it" and make sure anyone who you try and shoot in the head is actually a real bad guy.
Food for thought.
Originally Posted by local_dirt
Stop pontificating, you fool. I know when somebody's trying to kill innocents. Stop with the fugking stupidity.
So you lied and are not "done"?
Let us rehash exactly what you posted.
Originally Posted by local_dirt
If you see somebody walk into your local Piggly Wiggly with an AR15 or AK, put one in their cranium immediately. Don't stand there and overthink it. They are not there to get a jar of pickles.
You advocated shooting anyone carrying an AR in a Piggle Wiggly and not "overthinking it."
When many posters here called such actions into question and explain that such actions were likely to get you thrown in prison you backpeddaled and tried to move the goal posts.
Why not just admit you made a dumb post full of false bravado and move on?
Around where I live the leo's preferred those carrying to do so.concealed so they didn't get a or many "man with a gun" calls. You.might have the right to carry open but why make a target out of yourself? The way the courts work these days you might be better off to let them shoot someone first to prove their intent before you go to your own shooting. Eli Dicken is hailed as a hero for putting that guy down but if that guy hadn't allready shot and hit people ole Eli would be in jail. Pretty sick to think you gotta watch murder first before doing something about it but that is left doing their sh*t again. They point that gun at me changes the ball game. Everything the left has done for years has the intent to eliminate the 2nd A. Mb
Hi Mackay, what iron sights do you have on your light blue pistol? They look like they would be a fine addition to an old glock that I have! Also I carry a P365 and a spare magazine, I know this does not qualify as a full sized pistol, I do shoot it reasonably well and practice with it several times a month. For the most part that qualifies as the smallest pistol I feel reasonably confident with.
Around where I live the leo's preferred those carrying to do so.concealed so they didn't get a or many "man with a gun" calls. You.might have the right to carry open but why make a target out of yourself? The way the courts work these days you might be better off to let them shoot someone first to prove their intent before you go to your own shooting. Eli Dicken is hailed as a hero for putting that guy down but if that guy hadn't allready shot and hit people ole Eli would be in jail. Pretty sick to think you gotta watch murder first before doing something about it but that is left doing their sh*t again. They point that gun at me changes the ball game. Everything the left has done for years has the intent to eliminate the 2nd A. Mb
Good post….
I posted this quite awhile ago, but perhaps it is worth repeating.
Son-in-law is on local police dept….. had a long conversation with him one time regarding “mall shooters.”
He made three comments of some relevance…..
First, he broadly categorized some of his fellow policemen as “those that are cool and levelheaded …. and he’d be happy to team up with them.”
Second, were “those that get really excited in emergency and unfamiliar situations and one was not sure how they might respond” and this group may or may not be both helpful and predictable in emergency situations.
Ok, so far, this is pretty standard stuff and most of us have some experience with these two “types.”
Then he cautioned me…..he says TF, “if you as a civilian are first to get involved in some action, be aware that when the cops show up, they may not be thinking and just ‘shoot everyone’ who is holding a gun.”
Interestingly, he was not yet “experienced” and kinda identified as being in the second group but aspired to grow in his leo role and take his place in the first group.
You hear about Glock .40's blowing up often enough that I'd be very hesitant to go near anything +P with one.
Are you using a heavier recoil spring?
Let me address that.
In more than 3 decades of being an armorer I have seen a number of .40s and 10mms that have come apart. The short version is in literally EVERY, and I mean EVERY case, I would ask the person, or agency about their maintenance. The answers were consistent. I would ask how many rounds fired. They would state 10K, 12K, and upwards of over 20K in some cases. Then I would ask them when the last time they had replaced their recoil spring. The consistent answer was that they had not. They explained that the gun was still functioning, so they figured that they did not need to.
Same with some agencies. They figured that the recoil spring was a permanent item and not a part that needed frequent replacement in spite of the fact that Glock teaches every single armorer who goes to their classes how to check one as well as informs them to replace them generally every 3-5K rounds depending on the generation.
The concept of never replacing a recoil spring because the gun is still running is like saying that you don't need to replace your tires because they are still round and black. Just ignore the bald spots and cords. Then when they come apart catastrophically, blame the manufacturer, instead of the consumer..
The .40 ammo I produce was developed and designed to function using a fresh standard factory weight recoil spring assembly. In testing I fired thousands of rounds with zero problems and in fact fired rounds that were considerably hotter/faster. However the trifecta of accuracy, velocity and ultra reliability was right at 1200 FPS. This is a true High Performance load and in doing a lot of chronograph tests it beat a few big name 10mm loads. All while packaged in a small frame gun.
While it was developed to run with a factory recoil spring (on a Gen 3 G22 that is 17#s), I run a 20# spring on mind as a standard practice. The reason being is that I find my shot to shot recovery time to be faster. I can shoot controlled pairs quicker and it should be just a bit easier on the gun in terms of slide to frame wear.
I never cared for the .40 due to the inaccuracy in general, and I tested a BUNCH of various projectiles and powders before I found the ideal combo. I could not be happier with the way it turned out. Keeping 10/10 on a paper plate at 50 yards is not hard if shooting from a supported position.
As it is, I would hunt Mule Deer or Black Bear with this load with total confidence.
No I meant this Glock. The slide looks blue. Maybe it's just the pic.
It's from a reflection from the blue box next to it. Notice that the thumb slot on the grip is blue also. It bounced off the camera/phone when it flashed.
Nope the slide is blue.
Typically guns used for sims are also blue and referred to as a "Blue Gun". The use of the blue color is to help prevent a real gun being used in Force on Force training.
Personally I would never paint a real gun blue but as long as the gun never gets anywhere near F on F training it's probably not the end of the world.
Originally Posted by local_dirt
If you see somebody walk into your local Piggly Wiggly with an AR15 or AK, put one in their cranium immediately. Don't stand there and overthink it. They are not there to get a jar of pickles.
You will go to prison for shooting people who are exercising their Right to Keep and Bear Arms, as you should.
I am smart enough to not take my Smurf Glock into a training environment where sim guns may be present, so it is a total non issue.
Live guns of any type should not be present in a sim gun training area anyways, and if someone is not smart enough to recognize the difference between a real Glock and a Simunitions Glock, then they are really too stupid to be handling guns anyways. Of course there seems to be plenty of them around, and they get hired as the standards continue to be lowered.
None of this is my concern though, as I have done my time, and as I have stated previously I have zero desire to teach any manner of firearms training these days. I first started teaching gun stuff in 1994. I am completely done with it.
I don't own one. But I think a pistol chambered in .357 SIG would be a much above average fighting pistol. It pretty much duplicates the ballistics of the .357 Magnum in a short, fat, bottlenecked cartridge--so it has enough power and would be very flat shooting. Also, the bottle neck design would help insure that it fed reliably.
The slower propellants it uses would probably see it gain a substantial bit of velocity in 16" barreled carbines.
The Smith & Wesson FPC chambered in .357 SIG would be a good multi purpose carbine.
Hi Mackay, what iron sights do you have on your light blue pistol? They look like they would be a fine addition to an old glock that I have! Also I carry a P365 and a spare magazine, I know this does not qualify as a full sized pistol, I do shoot it reasonably well and practice with it several times a month. For the most part that qualifies as the smallest pistol I feel reasonably confident with.
I believe they are Dawson Precision sights.
As long as you can get fast and accurate hits with your P365, that is what matters. It is less about the delivery platform and more about your ability to perform with it.
There seems to be a misconception that one must specifically have a high capacity, optically sighted, generally full sized duty pistol to be considered fully capable.
That is missing the point.
It is more about figuring out the balance point for you personally and what fits. What YOU perform very well with, and at what point in terms of pistol size and capacity do things start to degrade.
Hand size and body type are factors, as is familiarity with the various handguns. I know one person who has some issues with his hands that simply does much better shooting DA revolvers than he ever will with any type of auto, so a 4" K Frame .357 Mag is a very good choice for him. Plus he has been shooting DA revolvers for more than 50 years, so he operates them at a level of unconscious competence.
Today I am wearing a 9mm Glock 34, with iron sights. No red dot. Plus a spare mag. I have zero issue with switching between an RDO equipped gun and irons, as I have shot enough of both it does not seem to matter.
So with 17+1 in the gun and a 24 rd spare, all carried comfortably in an IWB rig that works for any standard frame Glock 9mm/40, I feel fairly comfortable with my ability to perform under pressure with what I have on hand. Oh, and my "Giant" Mouse-Lite pocket knife for such chores as opening boxes.
There seems to be a misconception that one must specifically have a high capacity, optically sighted, generally full sized duty pistol to be considered fully capable.
That is missing the point.
It is more about figuring out the balance point for you personally and what fits. What YOU perform very well with, and at what point in terms of pistol size and capacity do things start to degrade.
Hand size and body type are factors, as is familiarity with the various handguns. I know one person who has some issues with his hands that simply does much better shooting DA revolvers than he ever will with any type of auto, so a 4" K Frame .357 Mag is a very good choice for him. Plus he has been shooting DA revolvers for more than 50 years, so he operates them at a level of unconscious competence.
Today I am wearing a 9mm Glock 34, with iron sights. No red dot. Plus a spare mag. I have zero issue with switching between an RDO equipped gun and irons, as I have shot enough of both it does not seem to matter.
So with 17+1 in the gun and a 24 rd spare, all carried comfortably in an IWB rig that works for any standard frame Glock 9mm/40, I feel fairly comfortable with my ability to perform under pressure with what I have on hand. Oh, and my "Giant" Mouse-Lite pocket knife for such chores as opening boxes.
There seems to be a misconception that one must specifically have a high capacity, optically sighted, generally full sized duty pistol to be considered fully capable.
That is missing the point.
It is more about figuring out the balance point for you personally and what fits. What YOU perform very well with, and at what point in terms of pistol size and capacity do things start to degrade.
Hand size and body type are factors, as is familiarity with the various handguns. I know one person who has some issues with his hands that simply does much better shooting DA revolvers than he ever will with any type of auto, so a 4" K Frame .357 Mag is a very good choice for him. Plus he has been shooting DA revolvers for more than 50 years, so he operates them at a level of unconscious competence.
Today I am wearing a 9mm Glock 34, with iron sights. No red dot. Plus a spare mag. I have zero issue with switching between an RDO equipped gun and irons, as I have shot enough of both it does not seem to matter.
So with 17+1 in the gun and a 24 rd spare, all carried comfortably in an IWB rig that works for any standard frame Glock 9mm/40, I feel fairly comfortable with my ability to perform under pressure with what I have on hand. Oh, and my "Giant" Mouse-Lite pocket knife for such chores as opening boxes.
I don't own one. But I think a pistol chambered in .357 SIG would be a much above average fighting pistol. It pretty much duplicates the ballistics of the .357 Magnum in a short, fat, bottlenecked cartridge--so it has enough power and would be very flat shooting. Also, the bottle neck design would help insure that it fed reliably.
The slower propellants it uses would probably see it gain a substantial bit of velocity in 16" barreled carbines.
The Smith & Wesson FPC chambered in .357 SIG would be a good multi purpose carbine.
I don't own one. But I think a pistol chambered in .357 SIG would be a much above average fighting pistol. It pretty much duplicates the ballistics of the .357 Magnum in a short, fat, bottlenecked cartridge--so it has enough power and would be very flat shooting. Also, the bottle neck design would help insure that it fed reliably.
The slower propellants it uses would probably see it gain a substantial bit of velocity in 16" barreled carbines.
The Smith & Wesson FPC chambered in .357 SIG would be a good multi purpose carbine.
another great thing about the 357 Sig that is often overlooked they feed flawlessly in my experience one of the bigger reasons is you're shoving a 9 mm bullet into a 40 caliber hole to start with and once it started in the chamber it's easy peasy.. though most good quality handguns today feed reliably no matter the case. but a little extra assurance and room never hurts.
I've always thought that a compact, autoloading carbine in .357 Magnum would be a good tool. But feeding rimmed cartridges through an auto loading action is undoubtedly a good trick. But it wouldn't be any trick at all to produce an autoloading carbine chambered for .357 SIG.
There seems to be a misconception that one must specifically have a high capacity, optically sighted, generally full sized duty pistol to be considered fully capable.
That is missing the point.
It is more about figuring out the balance point for you personally and what fits. What YOU perform very well with, and at what point in terms of pistol size and capacity do things start to degrade.
Hand size and body type are factors, as is familiarity with the various handguns. I know one person who has some issues with his hands that simply does much better shooting DA revolvers than he ever will with any type of auto, so a 4" K Frame .357 Mag is a very good choice for him. Plus he has been shooting DA revolvers for more than 50 years, so he operates them at a level of unconscious competence.
Today I am wearing a 9mm Glock 34, with iron sights. No red dot. Plus a spare mag. I have zero issue with switching between an RDO equipped gun and irons, as I have shot enough of both it does not seem to matter.
So with 17+1 in the gun and a 24 rd spare, all carried comfortably in an IWB rig that works for any standard frame Glock 9mm/40, I feel fairly comfortable with my ability to perform under pressure with what I have on hand. Oh, and my "Giant" Mouse-Lite pocket knife for such chores as opening boxes.
I have Dawson on my Glock 17. I like the fiber front and black rear. I'm not a fan of dots on rear sights.
Yep, I run a few fiber optic fronts with plain black rear sights. Makes for an uncluttered and fast picture.
The G34 I am wearing right now is like that.
Can't get both the front and rear in focus, but it is simply a green front F.O. sight and black rear.
The G34 is an extremely easy gun to shoot well with. Much like Montana Marine's Glock shown above, guns with that longer sight radius are very easy to shoot when using iron sights.
When I was doing some protection work stateside I ended up using a G34 purely for that reason. I was using iron sights and I told the guys who worked for me that when/if we needed to shoot, it would most likely be in an environment where there would be a numerous other innocent people around, so we all need to shoot extremely precisely. The point was not to shoot a lot, but to shoot well. Bearing that in mind, we did a bunch of drills that focused on precise application of our shots in less than ideal circumstances. Plus lots of "dot" drills. Pure precision work. If possible, taking a 1/2 or 3/4 second longer and getting a very solid sight picture and getting a good CNS hit and stopping crisis before it turned into a bunch of bullets flying everywhere was a goal. There of course is a balance between speed and precision, but a lot of time spent on precise shooting never really hurts.
One individual I used to run around with years ago was a big name in the competition shooting world. He won a bunch of national titles and other awards. He put it in perspective, when he said that you needed to be precise, but go faster and faster until you screw up, then find where your "No miss pace" is. Once you establish your no miss pace, keep pushing and working to get better from there. But when you really need to perform, stay just within the bounds of your no miss pace.
I've always thought that a compact, autoloading carbine in .357 Magnum would be a good tool. But feeding rimmed cartridges through an auto loading action is undoubtedly a good trick. But it wouldn't be any trick at all to produce an autoloading carbine chambered for .357 SIG.
WOW! thought this thread would've gone off the rails by now & a few fuqkfaces have tried. But it just keeps getting better. A lot of honest, common sense insight on the matter of a personal fighting handgun.
Mackay S. still layin it down & not faltering. Enjoy the non narcissistic way of presenting common sense & logic, along with excellent troubleshooting skills.
WOW! thought this thread would've gone off the rails by now & a few fuqkfaces have tried. But it just keeps getting better. A lot of honest, common sense insight on the matter of a personal fighting handgun.
Mackay S. still layin it down & not faltering. Enjoy the non narcissistic way of presenting common sense & logic, along with excellent troubleshooting skills.
Not inconceivable, but sitting down might be a trick.
I have carried one IWB for a long time, including working protection details using my G34.
I can't see how carrying a 5" 1911 is totally fine, but carrying a Glock 34 "Might be a trick'
Here is a little "Theory vs reality"
What people think might be a trick, vs people who carry them and know, is that a G34 and a 1911 are actually virtually identical in size as you can see here:
And a 1911 with 9 rounds of 45 weighs 2 pounds 15 ounces total, as shown below:
versus a Glock 34 9mm.
Shown in this pic with two, 21 round ETS mags +1 for the chamber for a total of 43 rounds and it weighs 2 pounds 14 ounces.
You end up weighing less than the 1911, and having 34 more rounds on board, using the old ETS mags. That said I just use those for practice these days.
Using Glock factory mags instead, I lose a single round overall. 42 rounds instead of 43.
These days I use a Glock factory 17 round mag as a primary, and a Glock factory 24 round mag as a reload, plus one in the pipe, for a total of 42 rounds.
The Glock weighs substantially less obviously and is the same size. With a spare extended magazine you end up with 33 round advantage over the 1911 (9 rounds of .45 vs 42 rounds of 9mm).
No trick at all.
Plus the G34 is probably the easiest gun there is to shoot well when it comes to iron sighted 9mms. It is an incredibly easy gun to shoot fast and accurately with. There is a very good reason why the gun is such a dominant force in the action shooting sports, when talking about non RDO equipped guns.
Not inconceivable, but sitting down might be a trick.
I have carried one IWB for a long time, including working protection details using my G34.
I can't see how carrying a 5" 1911 is totally fine, but carrying a Glock 34 "Might be a trick'
Here is a little "Theory vs reality"
What people think might be a trick, vs people who carry them and know, is that a G34 and a 1911 are actually virtually identical in size as you can see here:
And a 1911 with 9 rounds of 45 weighs 2 pounds 15 ounces total, as shown below:
versus a Glock 34 9mm.
Shown in this pic with two, 21 round ETS mags +1 for the chamber for a total of 43 rounds and it weighs 2 pounds 14 ounces.
You end up weighing less than the 1911, and having 34 more rounds on board, using the old ETS mags. That said I just use those for practice these days.
Using Glock factory mags instead, I lose a single round overall. 42 rounds instead of 43.
These days I use a Glock factory 17 round mag as a primary, and a Glock factory 24 round mag as a reload, plus one in the pipe, for a total of 42 rounds.
The Glock weighs substantially less obviously and is the same size. With a spare extended magazine you end up with 33 round advantage over the 1911 (9 rounds of .45 vs 42 rounds of 9mm).
No trick at all.
Plus the G34 is probably the easiest gun there is to shoot well when it comes to iron sighted 9mms. It is an incredibly easy gun to shoot fast and accurately with. There is a very good reason why the gun is such a dominant force in the action shooting sports, when talking about non RDO equipped guns.
Good point. Didn't realize it was the same slide length as a Government Model. I carried those for years.
When I stopped carrying a 1911, which I did for over 20yrs, I went to Glocks. Main reason was the arthritis in my gunhand did something to a nerve inside my" Browning Safety Riding thumb". In recoil, that safety ( I shot High Thumb forever and always) hit that nerve and "almost" made me Pee two to three small drops in my drawers! ha. It got to the point I lost some strength too. I replaced them with a Glock 34. The Ghost Trigger Disconnector really helped, but it was no 1911 Trigger! I could hit up close, but had a hard time hitting a pc of printing paper at 50yds. (coyote, etc, sometimes require "finessing" ) Anyhow, I settled on a G36 a long while, then a G30s, G29 was sweet, but this was after some surgeries, still needed more grip strength. So then I became a G19 addict. My little 4" Security Six 38 Special ( my dear friend gunsmith who died awhile back was a wiz at tuning revolvers, it is one accurate little Jewel) became my calling pistol, woods loafing buddy. To me, a good gunbelt/quality holster, the G34 - G17 worked swell, but the G19 ( sometimes a G23) stole my heart. THEN here came the G43x and the Shield Arms 15 shooter....."Bliss", ha. Hey, you guys be safe and doubly alert out there, Lord only knows what might show up, something that really needs shooting very well and very repeatedly...
What kind of Red Dots Mr Marten T. we talking about? I never liked a light hanging off my pistol nor, so far, ever cared for the looks of an optic on my pistol. I'm weird that way, but I do not doubt the benefits of both. Just curious Sir?
Yes, just spay the gun and holster to match exactly color of pants and shirt. You can get several outfits to match so you have spares for laundry downtime. Do not worry tyrants often wear same outfit daily so it can be done. If you do not mind being called: father, reverend,..... you can just dress all black. Advantages are no painting required and all black will make you appear slimmer.
Which is the standard 19 that is cut for an optic??
No.
The 47 is the size of a 17 grip frame but has a shorter dust cover and the guide rod/spring assembly of a 19. It allows you to run the 19 slide on a 17 sized grip frame or vice versa.
The 45 is the 19 size slide on the 47 (17 sized grip frame) straight out of the factory. It is also cut for an optic.
G45:
The 19X is the 47 frame with 19 slide but not cut for an optic.
There seems to be a misconception that one must specifically have a high capacity, optically sighted, generally full sized duty pistol to be considered fully capable.
I am perfectly comfortable with my Sig P-365XL and two twelve round mags. My eyes are still good enough that I don't feel I need optics..yet
Which is the standard 19 that is cut for an optic??
No.
The 47 is the size of a 17 grip frame but has a shorter dust cover and the guide rod/spring assembly of a 19. It allows you to run the 19 slide on a 17 sized grip frame or vice versa.
The 45 is the 19 size slide on the 47 (17 sized grip frame) straight out of the factory. It is also cut for an optic.
G45:
The 19X is the 47 frame with 19 slide but not cut for an optic.
Correct. I was wondering if something that was standard 19 size, grip/slide but wasn't designated at a 19xxx. Poor wording on my part.
Any of you svelte and stylish mofos got some concealment ideas for someone who tucks his button up shirt in and wears suspenders every day?
For a 17 or a 34?
Back in the pre suspenders days I carried what I wanted in a belt holster. A custom 1911 to a 5 inch XD 45 to a 5.5 inch 629.
Serious question here. I got the same problem.
I carried a Glock 17 as my concealed carry for 20+ years. For me it always came down to a cover garment.
In cool weather, just add a vest (no not one of those fisherman's style vest with 67 pockets that Ayoob carries sammiches in......grin).
Another favorite for cooler temps, a wifebeater undergarment, and a hoody sweatshirt to cover the gun (IWB holster).
The wife beater is optional, but I like it so I don't have the pistol or holster directly on my skin.
Having an old back injury that still gives me flare-ups with pain, wearing a snug fitting belt is not always possible. That's where suspenders and a looser belt tension come in. If I'm wearing suspenders, they are under the cover garment, and over the wife-beater or t-shirt undergarment.
In warm weather, a wife-beater undergarment, sometimes suspenders, then a lightweight summer shirt un-tucked.
For me it was hard to get accustomed to not tucking in a shirt, but sometimes necessity dictates.
What kind of Red Dots Mr Marten T. we talking about? I never liked a light hanging off my pistol nor, so far, ever cared for the looks of an optic on my pistol. I'm weird that way, but I do not doubt the benefits of both. Just curious Sir?
Apologies Jim, I don't know which red dot. Probably could check the net to see what the 17 is made for.
I'm not much of a pistol shooter but did take the CCW class a few years ago. The red dot changes the shooters focus from the front site to the target. Bring the dot up onto the target you are now focused on and shoot. I haven't tried it yet. Some of you have e I see.
What kind of Red Dots Mr Marten T. we talking about? I never liked a light hanging off my pistol nor, so far, ever cared for the looks of an optic on my pistol. I'm weird that way, but I do not doubt the benefits of both. Just curious Sir?
If you're looking at G17s with a cut, you should also consider the PSA Dagger with full size grip frame. It's almost a Glock 17, with RMR cut in place.
Here's a sweet deal for $459, with RMR optics cut, and 10 magazines.
Their forgings come from Aero last I saw, with machining done by Palmetto or some contractor they've secured. Assembly is done by Palmetto in the difficult state of Florida. By all recent accounts their stuff is just fine so they must be putting the whip to the Cubans they have chained to their work stations.
Their forgings come from Aero last I saw, with machining done by Palmetto or some contractor they've secured. Assembly is done by Palmetto in the difficult state of Florida. By all recent accounts their stuff is just fine so they must be putting the whip to the Cubans they have chained to their work stations.
Palmetto is in S.C. the last time I noticed. Are they assembling in Fl.?
And what's difficult in Fl besides the the heat & traffic?
Cost of Goods on a striker fired plastic handgun has to be low or lower. Manufacturing processes are fine tuned already. Given the length of time Glock has been the lead goose their manufacturing costs must be minimal and with patents expiring competitors are taking advantage of Glock’s R&D.
Listen here buster, you walk around lookin' like a battleship you best be packin' a hammer.
This applies to both gunnery, and COCK.
Get your fugkin' schit together.
He says he can do something about the gunnery.
The cock, not so much!!
Quote
Eskimos are known to rub noses, devour harpooned whale blubber, and have amazing rip-roaring intercourse. Their dicks are rock hard. Anthropologists and kinkologists have noted that historically, Inuit people inhabiting the Arctic Circle remain naked on ice floes for up to ten days, to maintain their perfect erections.
Mine fits fine in a owb Blackhawk serpa G17 holster.
I took a closer look and figured out why mine doesn't fit. The tall front sight is the culprit. The Serpa sight groove isn't roomy enough.
Had that problem with the Serpa and a S&W 5903 with target sights. A flat file, a round file, and a little while and the fit was right. But there’s several pressure points the tall sights enhance. Just have to keep filing and checking till it’s like you like it.
Mine fits fine in a owb Blackhawk serpa G17 holster.
I took a closer look and figured out why mine doesn't fit. The tall front sight is the culprit. The Serpa sight groove isn't roomy enough.
Had that problem with the Serpa and a S&W 5903 with target sights. A flat file, a round file, and a little while and the fit was right. But there’s several pressure points the tall sights enhance. Just have to keep filing and checking till it’s like you like it.
But if I were to get carried away with the file, I might not be able to use the sights with the RDS aboard the pistol. Whenever I get around to ordering a dedicated holster for the Dagger, I will definitely keep the sight channel in mind.
I live in an area that has T-Shirt and shorts weather 6 months of the year. Is there a good set-up for carrying a full-size pistol dressed as such? If so, what is it?
I live in an area that has T-Shirt and shorts weather 6 months of the year. Is there a good set-up for carrying a full-size pistol dressed as such? If so, what is it?
Good belt and holster . Would that ruin your metrosexual look, Paul?
I live in an area that has T-Shirt and shorts weather 6 months of the year. Is there a good set-up for carrying a full-size pistol dressed as such? If so, what is it?
Only 6 months?
Open carry, or a pocket pistol. OR, wear more clothes.
I live in an area that has T-Shirt and shorts weather 6 months of the year. Is there a good set-up for carrying a full-size pistol dressed as such? If so, what is it?
in todays world, multiple attackers are not uncommon. High cap is prefered with an extra magazine, spring loaded flipper knife in my left pocket as I am right handed.
If you saw the crap being turned out of our Jails everyday, it would scare the crap out of you!
I live in an area that has T-Shirt and shorts weather 6 months of the year. Is there a good set-up for carrying a full-size pistol dressed as such? If so, what is it?
Only 6 months?
Open carry, or a pocket pistol. OR, wear more clothes.
Much of this thread has focused on the value of a full size pistol and the concept of bigger is better. Just trying to figure out if there is a way to pull that off in my typical summer garb.
I'll go ahead and ask the masses this while we are on the subject. Do any of you know a good video or article that covers the various methods of concealed carry in depth.
I live in an area that has T-Shirt and shorts weather 6 months of the year. Is there a good set-up for carrying a full-size pistol dressed as such? If so, what is it?
I live in an area that has T-Shirt and shorts weather 6 months of the year. Is there a good set-up for carrying a full-size pistol dressed as such? If so, what is it?
Only 6 months?
Open carry, or a pocket pistol. OR, wear more clothes.
Much of this thread has focused on the value of a full size pistol and the concept of bigger is better. Just trying to figure out if there is a way to pull that off in my typical summer garb.
I'll go ahead and ask the masses this while we are on the subject. Do any of you know a good video or article that covers the various methods of concealed carry in depth.
I live in an area that has T-Shirt and shorts weather 6 months of the year. Is there a good set-up for carrying a full-size pistol dressed as such? If so, what is it?
I live in an area that has T-Shirt and shorts weather 6 months of the year. Is there a good set-up for carrying a full-size pistol dressed as such? If so, what is it?
Think Miami Vice.
Lol.
Actually, what flave said.
I skip the wife beater and just go with a Carhartt t-shirt untucked, or polo or Hawaiian shirt.
Mine fits fine in a owb Blackhawk serpa G17 holster.
I took a closer look and figured out why mine doesn't fit. The tall front sight is the culprit. The Serpa sight groove isn't roomy enough.
Had that problem with the Serpa and a S&W 5903 with target sights. A flat file, a round file, and a little while and the fit was right. But there’s several pressure points the tall sights enhance. Just have to keep filing and checking till it’s like you like it.
But if I were to get carried away with the file, I might not be able to use the sights with the RDS aboard the pistol. Whenever I get around to ordering a dedicated holster for the Dagger, I will definitely keep the sight channel in mind.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Laughing with you, not at. Recognize the pattern....taking the wrong path.
He wasn't filing the sights...the holster. Opening the sight channel, lowering the opposing contact points.
I live in an area that has T-Shirt and shorts weather 6 months of the year. Is there a good set-up for carrying a full-size pistol dressed as such? If so, what is it?
Only 6 months?
Open carry, or a pocket pistol. OR, wear more clothes.
Much of this thread has focused on the value of a full size pistol and the concept of bigger is better. Just trying to figure out if there is a way to pull that off in my typical summer garb.
I'll go ahead and ask the masses this while we are on the subject. Do any of you know a good video or article that covers the various methods of concealed carry in depth.
Do you own a full-sized handgun? I have to edit what I posted as it is a snipe at Barnard. That's uncalled for in the context of what I think MS intended for this thread where we all need to be situationally aware now more than ever. And be properly prepared to respond.
Apologies Barnard. There has been great advice shared in this thread by those with real world experience. For myself, I do cc for my ability to defend myself, maybe others too. I hope to never have to do so, but better to have the ability than not.
I live in an area that has T-Shirt and shorts weather 6 months of the year. Is there a good set-up for carrying a full-size pistol dressed as such? If so, what is it?
Mine fits fine in a owb Blackhawk serpa G17 holster.
I took a closer look and figured out why mine doesn't fit. The tall front sight is the culprit. The Serpa sight groove isn't roomy enough.
Had that problem with the Serpa and a S&W 5903 with target sights. A flat file, a round file, and a little while and the fit was right. But there’s several pressure points the tall sights enhance. Just have to keep filing and checking till it’s like you like it.
But if I were to get carried away with the file, I might not be able to use the sights with the RDS aboard the pistol. Whenever I get around to ordering a dedicated holster for the Dagger, I will definitely keep the sight channel in mind.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Laughing with you, not at. Recognize the pattern....taking the wrong path.
He wasn't filing the sights...the holster. Opening the sight channel, lowering the opposing contact points.
OK I got it now......grin. I'd have to remove too much. I'll pass on that too, not looking for an open-front holster......grin.
Don't sell yourself short, flave. You make the GM cut. Hostile, yes, but still a GM.
I love that in this very thread your dumb ass opined that one couldn't conceal a G34 after your decades of carrying a full size 1911.
LOL
You're a moron at best, a liar is more likely.
That's very hurtful, especially coming from a hero figure of mine. I'm going to spend some time in quiet weeping now.
But, before that, let me say that I've come to discover that it's common to overestimate the actual length of the G34 Long Slide. Most people estimate that it's about the length of a 1911 Long Slide, and it's common to be surprised to discover that it's actually only about the length of a standard length Government model. This fact is often commented on by reviewers.
Okay, enough of defending my error (May God have mercy on my soul). Now off to quiet weeping.
I live in an area that has T-Shirt and shorts weather 6 months of the year. Is there a good set-up for carrying a full-size pistol dressed as such? If so, what is it?
It is incredibly easy.
First you get a proper belt. Second you buy a good quality holster (and I will expound more on that in a minute). Third, you don't wear skinny, tight fitting, metro sexual clothing that is 1 size too small for you.
It is important that you buy a but a belt that is meant to support the weight of a handgun, and not just a dress belt. Otherwise with time and use, the belt with break down and start to curve, be floppy and not properly support the weight. Guys then tighten/cinch the belt harder and it becomes so uncomfortable that they stop carrying. They blame this on the gun, saying the gun is too large and buy a smaller gun. It is not a gun problem it is usually a belt/holster problem.
Same with holsters. Guys will spend X amount of dollars on a handgun, and then stick it in a POS holster, because they are tightwads. Then when they discover how uncomfortable the gun is to carry in the POS holster, they blame it on the gun, and will then buy a smaller, less capable gun and buy yet another POS holster, and start the cycle all over again.
Buy a good belt, and a good holster and you might be surprised how easy it is to carry even very large handgun.
I can carry a 4" .44 Magnum N Frame in an IWB Summer Special from Milt Sparks all day. That is a very large gun by any standards. The reason is that I use a good belt and good holster.
The Summer Special can conceal a large N Frame S&W very effectively:
A proper IWB rig, like this Executive Companion will allow you to carry a full size steel frame 1911 all day with no issue.
I have found that carrying IWB helps dissipate the weight better than OWB, plus it aids in concealment. I can carry a full size gun in an IWB all summer long, wearing a typical shorts and a t shirt. It is no big deal.
I use belts like "The Wilderness" which are polymer reinforced. I have used them for 20+ years. Or leather ones made by Milt Sparks.
For holsters, my long time favorites are Summer Specials, or variants made by Milt Sparks.
For a kydex/plastic alternative that is on the less expensive side, yet is actually an excellent holster, the Raven Perun is a great holster. It is an OWB high ride rig. They only make them for a limited number of guns, mostly Glocks, but they are excellent and ride very tight against the body. You can wear one under a T shirt in the summer time with no issue if you choose your shirt accordingly. I am normally not much of a plastic holster fan, but the Raven Perun is one that I do like due to the way it rides close in, as well as the fact you can wear it as a straight drop, or canted. It is a an excellent holster and actually one of the better deals in holsters.
Using a good holster and belt, it is not hard at all to carry a handgun that you perform well with under pressure.
Last month there was a thread in the handguns section called "Summer Carry".
It started out as the typical "what pocket gun do you carry in the hot weather" type thread.
I answered with the following post:
What gun is the minimum you are willing to get into a gunfight against one or possibly two armed bad guys with? Armed as in both have at minimum, handguns. Are you willing to get into that gunfight, which is a fight to the death, (them or you) with a Kahr that holds 7 rounds of .380?
For me, I know what my choices are. Each has to decide. Personally, I don't own any of the micro guns, that hold a very small amount of rounds, as I don't want to fall into the habit of grabbing what is comfortable, rather than what will actually get the job done. My only exception is a J Frame, and it is relegated to BUG role, and on exceedingly rare occasions a primary, but pretty much 99+% of the time I carry a gun I am willing to actually fight with and can turn in a good performance while using.
I posted again showing what I had chosen to carry that day, which was my Glock 22, .40 S&W a reload and a knife.
One of the more condescending members (Wrapids) stated:
"None of my friends in central Wisconsin feel a need to carry a gun."
Then followed up afterwards by telling one of our other members that since they carried a gun and ammo, with this post:
"Sounds like you should leave a war zone"
I posted a few days later that I was packing the following, showing this picture:
To which Wrapids replied:
"You oughtta leave a war zone."
Here is the thing.
I RARELY comment about much of the stuff that goes on and try to stay out of it for the most part.
That said. This condescending liberal attitude is exactly why we just ended up with 18 people dead and 13 more wounded. Over 30 people total, plus all their families. Kids, spouses, parents, all the people who cared for them.
NOBODY SHOT BACK.
When the fight started, nobody took the fight to the enemy. Nobody stood their ground and put rounds into the bad guy.
NOBODY.
So Wrapids, maybe you should feel the need to carry a gun, because NOBODY is coming to save you.
It is up to individuals to protect themselves. It is not the job of the government, or the nanny state. You are responsible for your own protection and those you care for who are unable to protect themselves.
You and NOBODY ELSE.
Your typical liberal won't fight his own fight, but he sure will call the police and have someone else do it. He is too scared to do the job himself, but not too scared to put someone else at risk. Pathetic.
Back on point,
You don't get to pick and choose when these things are going to happen or where. They are like a gift from a stranger. You have to unwrap it and deal with it, no matter what it is. Odds are that the situation will not be in your favor as the bad guy(s) will have planned it that way. So deal with it.
That is why you carry a gun you are willing to get into a fight with, and actually be prepared to fight.
Just one person with a gun and some skills could have made a difference and changed the outcome drastically.
Think about Eli Dickens.
The 22 year old young man who stopped what would have been a massacre in a shopping mall. He did so by carrying a gun daily and practicing. When the time came, he did not run, he took the fight to the enemy and stopped a massacre before really got going.
This is The Way.
Agree with all. My EDC is a G43X with Shield 15-rounders. And a Benchmade folder lives clipped to my pocket at all times, either a Bugout or a heavier model, which name escapes me.
The 43x w/Shields is an amazing package, BUT you do need to swap out the mag release for one of theirs. Once I did that I ran 10 full mags through each (300 rounds total) with zero failures.
And a lot of practical experience. A person needs to get the mindset of carrying what they might really need, not what is the most handy. A 2 shot NAA derringer is better than nothing but a bad guy with a Glock will make short work of that idea.
And a lot of practical experience. A person needs to get the mindset of carrying what they might really need, not what is the most handy. A 2 shot NAA derringer is better than nothing but a bad guy with a Glock will make short work of that idea.
TRH will shoot someone in the dick with his NAA derringer before you can say Anaconda.
That's very hurtful, especially coming from a hero figure of mine. I'm going to spend some time in quiet weeping now.
But, before that, let me say that I've come to discover that it's common to overestimate the actual length of the G34 Long Slide. Most people estimate that it's about the length of a 1911 Long Slide, and it's common to be surprised to discover that it's actually only about the length of a standard length Government model. This fact is often commented on by reviewers.
Okay, enough of defending my error (May God have mercy on my soul). Now off to quiet weeping.
You repeatedly offer advice regarding things you've never done.
Agree with all. My EDC is a G43X with Shield 15-rounders. And a Benchmade folder lives clipped to my pocket at all times, either a Bugout or a heavier model, which name escapes me.
The 43x w/Shields is an amazing package, BUT you do need to swap out the mag release for one of theirs. Once I did that I ran 10 full mags through each (300 rounds total) with zero failures.
And a lot of practical experience. A person needs to get the mindset of carrying what they might really need, not what is the most handy. A 2 shot NAA derringer is better than nothing but a bad guy with a Glock will make short work of that idea.
And there are a LOT of bad guys out there with Glocks.
I was talking to a peaceful 45 yo Jamaican guy I know the other day. He told me that every brother in the hood has a Glock, good guy or bad guy.
I live in an area that has T-Shirt and shorts weather 6 months of the year. Is there a good set-up for carrying a full-size pistol dressed as such? If so, what is it?
It is incredibly easy.
First you get a proper belt. Second you buy a good quality holster (and I will expound more on that in a minute). Third, you don't wear skinny, tight fitting, metro sexual clothing that is 1 size too small for you.
It is important that you buy a but a belt that is meant to support the weight of a handgun, and not just a dress belt. Otherwise with time and use, the belt with break down and start to curve, be floppy and not properly support the weight. Guys then tighten/cinch the belt harder and it becomes so uncomfortable that they stop carrying. They blame this on the gun, saying the gun is too large and buy a smaller gun. It is not a gun problem it is usually a belt/holster problem.
Same with holsters. Guys will spend X amount of dollars on a handgun, and then stick it in a POS holster, because they are tightwads. Then when they discover how uncomfortable the gun is to carry in the POS holster, they blame it on the gun, and will then buy a smaller, less capable gun and buy yet another POS holster, and start the cycle all over again.
Buy a good belt, and a good holster and you might be surprised how easy it is to carry even very large handgun.
I can carry a 4" .44 Magnum N Frame in an IWB Summer Special from Milt Sparks all day. That is a very large gun by any standards. The reason is that I use a good belt and good holster.
The Summer Special can conceal a large N Frame S&W very effectively:
A proper IWB rig, like this Executive Companion will allow you to carry a full size steel frame 1911 all day with no issue.
I have found that carrying IWB helps dissipate the weight better than OWB, plus it aids in concealment. I can carry a full size gun in an IWB all summer long, wearing a typical shorts and a t shirt. It is no big deal.
I use belts like "The Wilderness" which are polymer reinforced. I have used them for 20+ years. Or leather ones made by Milt Sparks.
For holsters, my long time favorites are Summer Specials, or variants made by Milt Sparks.
For a kydex/plastic alternative that is on the less expensive side, yet is actually an excellent holster, the Raven Perun is a great holster. It is an OWB high ride rig. They only make them for a limited number of guns, mostly Glocks, but they are excellent and ride very tight against the body. You can wear one under a T shirt in the summer time with no issue if you choose your shirt accordingly. I am normally not much of a plastic holster fan, but the Raven Perun is one that I do like due to the way it rides close in, as well as the fact you can wear it as a straight drop, or canted. It is a an excellent holster and actually one of the better deals in holsters.
Using a good holster and belt, it is not hard at all to carry a handgun that you perform well with under pressure.
I have tried a few OWB set ups while wearing a loose fitting T-Shirt, but my T shirt tended to bunch up on top of the gun. I bought an IWB leather holster for my small revolver and can't quite get cozy with it. Your comment about the belt makes a lot of sense, and I suspect my belts aren't wide and supportive enough. I wish I had a good shop around here. The one shop that has the best and equipment has ridiculous prices and the workers are kinda dicks.
After reading all of the comments in this thread, I realize that I don't have an ideal gun. Out of these the Glock 48 and the Ruger Security 380 are closest to ideal. The Glock 40, Beretta 92 and the Ruger P95 are porkers. I really like the 48 and shoot it pretty well, but it has a 10 round capacity. I don't mind spending money on all the right stuff, but would like to get it right the first time.
I live in an area that has T-Shirt and shorts weather 6 months of the year. Is there a good set-up for carrying a full-size pistol dressed as such? If so, what is it?
It is incredibly easy.
First you get a proper belt. Second you buy a good quality holster (and I will expound more on that in a minute). Third, you don't wear skinny, tight fitting, metro sexual clothing that is 1 size too small for you.
It is important that you buy a but a belt that is meant to support the weight of a handgun, and not just a dress belt. Otherwise with time and use, the belt with break down and start to curve, be floppy and not properly support the weight. Guys then tighten/cinch the belt harder and it becomes so uncomfortable that they stop carrying. They blame this on the gun, saying the gun is too large and buy a smaller gun. It is not a gun problem it is usually a belt/holster problem.
Same with holsters. Guys will spend X amount of dollars on a handgun, and then stick it in a POS holster, because they are tightwads. Then when they discover how uncomfortable the gun is to carry in the POS holster, they blame it on the gun, and will then buy a smaller, less capable gun and buy yet another POS holster, and start the cycle all over again.
Buy a good belt, and a good holster and you might be surprised how easy it is to carry even very large handgun.
I can carry a 4" .44 Magnum N Frame in an IWB Summer Special from Milt Sparks all day. That is a very large gun by any standards. The reason is that I use a good belt and good holster.
The Summer Special can conceal a large N Frame S&W very effectively:
A proper IWB rig, like this Executive Companion will allow you to carry a full size steel frame 1911 all day with no issue.
I have found that carrying IWB helps dissipate the weight better than OWB, plus it aids in concealment. I can carry a full size gun in an IWB all summer long, wearing a typical shorts and a t shirt. It is no big deal.
I use belts like "The Wilderness" which are polymer reinforced. I have used them for 20+ years. Or leather ones made by Milt Sparks.
For holsters, my long time favorites are Summer Specials, or variants made by Milt Sparks.
For a kydex/plastic alternative that is on the less expensive side, yet is actually an excellent holster, the Raven Perun is a great holster. It is an OWB high ride rig. They only make them for a limited number of guns, mostly Glocks, but they are excellent and ride very tight against the body. You can wear one under a T shirt in the summer time with no issue if you choose your shirt accordingly. I am normally not much of a plastic holster fan, but the Raven Perun is one that I do like due to the way it rides close in, as well as the fact you can wear it as a straight drop, or canted. It is a an excellent holster and actually one of the better deals in holsters.
Using a good holster and belt, it is not hard at all to carry a handgun that you perform well with under pressure.
I have tried a few OWB set ups while wearing a loose fitting T-Shirt, but my T shirt tended to bunch up on top of the gun. I bought an IWB leather holster for my small revolver and can't quite get cozy with it. Your comment about the belt makes a lot of sense, and I suspect my belts aren't wide and supportive enough. I wish I had a good shop around here. The one shop that has the best and equipment has ridiculous prices and the workers are kinda dicks.
After reading all of the comments in this thread, I realize that I don't have an ideal gun. Out of these the Glock 48 and the Ruger Security 380 are closest to ideal. The Glock 40, Beretta 92 and the Ruger P95 are porkers. I really like the 48 and shoot it pretty well, but it has a 10 round capacity. I don't mind spending money on all the right stuff, but would like to get it right the first time.
Last month there was a thread in the handguns section called "Summer Carry".
It started out as the typical "what pocket gun do you carry in the hot weather" type thread.
I answered with the following post:
What gun is the minimum you are willing to get into a gunfight against one or possibly two armed bad guys with? Armed as in both have at minimum, handguns. Are you willing to get into that gunfight, which is a fight to the death, (them or you) with a Kahr that holds 7 rounds of .380?
For me, I know what my choices are. Each has to decide. Personally, I don't own any of the micro guns, that hold a very small amount of rounds, as I don't want to fall into the habit of grabbing what is comfortable, rather than what will actually get the job done. My only exception is a J Frame, and it is relegated to BUG role, and on exceedingly rare occasions a primary, but pretty much 99+% of the time I carry a gun I am willing to actually fight with and can turn in a good performance while using.
I posted again showing what I had chosen to carry that day, which was my Glock 22, .40 S&W a reload and a knife.
One of the more condescending members (Wrapids) stated:
"None of my friends in central Wisconsin feel a need to carry a gun."
Then followed up afterwards by telling one of our other members that since they carried a gun and ammo, with this post:
"Sounds like you should leave a war zone"
I posted a few days later that I was packing the following, showing this picture:
To which Wrapids replied:
"You oughtta leave a war zone."
Here is the thing.
I RARELY comment about much of the stuff that goes on and try to stay out of it for the most part.
That said. This condescending liberal attitude is exactly why we just ended up with 18 people dead and 13 more wounded. Over 30 people total, plus all their families. Kids, spouses, parents, all the people who cared for them.
NOBODY SHOT BACK.
When the fight started, nobody took the fight to the enemy. Nobody stood their ground and put rounds into the bad guy.
NOBODY.
So Wrapids, maybe you should feel the need to carry a gun, because NOBODY is coming to save you.
It is up to individuals to protect themselves. It is not the job of the government, or the nanny state. You are responsible for your own protection and those you care for who are unable to protect themselves.
You and NOBODY ELSE.
Your typical liberal won't fight his own fight, but he sure will call the police and have someone else do it. He is too scared to do the job himself, but not too scared to put someone else at risk. Pathetic.
Back on point,
You don't get to pick and choose when these things are going to happen or where. They are like a gift from a stranger. You have to unwrap it and deal with it, no matter what it is. Odds are that the situation will not be in your favor as the bad guy(s) will have planned it that way. So deal with it.
That is why you carry a gun you are willing to get into a fight with, and actually be prepared to fight.
Just one person with a gun and some skills could have made a difference and changed the outcome drastically.
Think about Eli Dickens.
The 22 year old young man who stopped what would have been a massacre in a shopping mall. He did so by carrying a gun daily and practicing. When the time came, he did not run, he took the fight to the enemy and stopped a massacre before really got going.
This is The Way.
Agree with all. My EDC is a G43X with Shield 15-rounders. And a Benchmade folder lives clipped to my pocket at all times, either a Bugout or a heavier model, which name escapes me.
The 43x w/Shields is an amazing package, BUT you do need to swap out the mag release for one of theirs. Once I did that I ran 10 full mags through each (300 rounds total) with zero failures.
JellO, All you need to beconcerned about is having the front sight removed from your handgun..... so when the bad guy shoves it up your azz you will atcually find pleasure in it.... commie
Paul, Try moving the holster around a bit. It's hard to believe, but a belt loop in the wrong place can be an issue. Just changing position an inch can make a difference in feel.😎
I have tried a few OWB set ups while wearing a loose fitting T-Shirt, but my T shirt tended to bunch up on top of the gun. I bought an IWB leather holster for my small revolver and can't quite get cozy with it. Your comment about the belt makes a lot of sense, and I suspect my belts aren't wide and supportive enough. I wish I had a good shop around here. The one shop that has the best and equipment has ridiculous prices and the workers are kinda dicks.
Last month there was a thread in the handguns section called "Summer Carry".
It started out as the typical "what pocket gun do you carry in the hot weather" type thread.
I answered with the following post:
What gun is the minimum you are willing to get into a gunfight against one or possibly two armed bad guys with? Armed as in both have at minimum, handguns. Are you willing to get into that gunfight, which is a fight to the death, (them or you) with a Kahr that holds 7 rounds of .380?
For me, I know what my choices are. Each has to decide. Personally, I don't own any of the micro guns, that hold a very small amount of rounds, as I don't want to fall into the habit of grabbing what is comfortable, rather than what will actually get the job done. My only exception is a J Frame, and it is relegated to BUG role, and on exceedingly rare occasions a primary, but pretty much 99+% of the time I carry a gun I am willing to actually fight with and can turn in a good performance while using.
I posted again showing what I had chosen to carry that day, which was my Glock 22, .40 S&W a reload and a knife.
One of the more condescending members (Wrapids) stated:
"None of my friends in central Wisconsin feel a need to carry a gun."
Then followed up afterwards by telling one of our other members that since they carried a gun and ammo, with this post:
"Sounds like you should leave a war zone"
I posted a few days later that I was packing the following, showing this picture:
To which Wrapids replied:
"You oughtta leave a war zone."
Here is the thing.
I RARELY comment about much of the stuff that goes on and try to stay out of it for the most part.
That said. This condescending liberal attitude is exactly why we just ended up with 18 people dead and 13 more wounded. Over 30 people total, plus all their families. Kids, spouses, parents, all the people who cared for them.
NOBODY SHOT BACK.
When the fight started, nobody took the fight to the enemy. Nobody stood their ground and put rounds into the bad guy.
NOBODY.
So Wrapids, maybe you should feel the need to carry a gun, because NOBODY is coming to save you.
It is up to individuals to protect themselves. It is not the job of the government, or the nanny state. You are responsible for your own protection and those you care for who are unable to protect themselves.
You and NOBODY ELSE.
Your typical liberal won't fight his own fight, but he sure will call the police and have someone else do it. He is too scared to do the job himself, but not too scared to put someone else at risk. Pathetic.
Back on point,
You don't get to pick and choose when these things are going to happen or where. They are like a gift from a stranger. You have to unwrap it and deal with it, no matter what it is. Odds are that the situation will not be in your favor as the bad guy(s) will have planned it that way. So deal with it.
That is why you carry a gun you are willing to get into a fight with, and actually be prepared to fight.
Just one person with a gun and some skills could have made a difference and changed the outcome drastically.
Think about Eli Dickens.
The 22 year old young man who stopped what would have been a massacre in a shopping mall. He did so by carrying a gun daily and practicing. When the time came, he did not run, he took the fight to the enemy and stopped a massacre before really got going.
This is The Way.
Agree with all. My EDC is a G43X with Shield 15-rounders. And a Benchmade folder lives clipped to my pocket at all times, either a Bugout or a heavier model, which name escapes me.
The 43x w/Shields is an amazing package, BUT you do need to swap out the mag release for one of theirs. Once I did that I ran 10 full mags through each (300 rounds total) with zero failures.
JellO, All you need to beconcerned about is having the front sight removed from your handgun..... so when the bad guy shoves it up your azz you will atcually find pleasure in it.... commie
Lol, the ladder pussy fancies himself a Gun Fighter!! LMAO!!
Paul, Try moving the holster around a bit. It's hard to believe, but a belt loop in the wrong place can be an issue. Just changing position an inch can make a difference in feel.😎
I have found that to be true myself, especially when running an IWB holster.
I have tried a few OWB set ups while wearing a loose fitting T-Shirt, but my T shirt tended to bunch up on top of the gun. I bought an IWB leather holster for my small revolver and can't quite get cozy with it. Your comment about the belt makes a lot of sense, and I suspect my belts aren't wide and supportive enough. I wish I had a good shop around here. The one shop that has the best and equipment has ridiculous prices and the workers are kinda dicks.
I have tried a few OWB set ups while wearing a loose fitting T-Shirt, but my T shirt tended to bunch up on top of the gun. I bought an IWB leather holster for my small revolver and can't quite get cozy with it. Your comment about the belt makes a lot of sense, and I suspect my belts aren't wide and supportive enough. I wish I had a good shop around here. The one shop that has the best and equipment has ridiculous prices and the workers are kinda dicks.
And a lot of practical experience. A person needs to get the mindset of carrying what they might really need, not what is the most handy. A 2 shot NAA derringer is better than nothing but a bad guy with a Glock will make short work of that idea.
we were taking the grandkids to a jump zone play place in a city near where we live and a Mustang pulled up next to us, the youth that got out of it had on sweat pants, he pulled his shirt up and checked on the positioning of a berretta 92 shoved down in the front of his pants and hanging in there somehow. He went on to the pizza place next to where we were going where I assume he was conducting a business meeting. Seeing the full sized berretta in those sweat pants was instructional. There might have been a time 20-30 years ago when someone might have felt somewhat ok with a NA derringer in his pocket, these are different days and they seem to be getting worse.
Summer carry is Cargo shorts with a KORE Essentials belt. G19 in a Comp-Tac infidel, G43 and Shield arms Z9 magazine in a We The People Kydex holster, or a Sig P365XL in a We The People Kydex holster. Always have a spare in my off side front pocket. A good belt can make you or break you.
I haven’t read this whole thread but the first couple of pages was a bit concerning. I live in WI and am not friends with Wrapids so I carry everywhere just to keep him at bay, LOL.
My wife and I volunteer for an event that happens weekly on the weekends and it’s a prime place to get shot up. I carry while there. Are there signs out front? Sure. Do I care? Hell no. Even before the Maine event I made it clear we were sitting ducks and would do what was needed to make sure I could have a chance of survival if something went down.
It’s your choice to be a victim and wait for the police to arrive. If someone had ignored the signs and had a pistol on them the death toll would have been a lot less. In fact one of the dead was a concealed carrier according to his friend on another forum but didn’t have it on him. He and his son both were killed.
I carry a Sig P365 year round. I shoot it sometimes in IDPA matches and can get good hits to 25 yards pretty consistently.
I think they are a great carry pistol, but in no way can I shoot it as fast or accurately as my P320 X5 Legion which is what I shoot in most matches. But that gun weighs over 40 ounces unloaded and is not very practical for me to carry all the time.
It's easy to carry a P365 in virtually all situations and it's still pretty easy to shoot well. I used to carry a Glock 26 but now prefer the P365.
The choice of a carry gun is a personal preference. The P365 is my choice because I think it balances shootability and ease of carry very well.
Everyone gets to make their own choice based on the factors they think are important. But I will say I'm not that comfortable carrying a .380 or J Frame as a primary weapon.
I carry a Sig P365 year round. I shoot it sometimes in IDPA matches and can get good hits to 25 yards pretty consistently.
I think they are a great carry pistol, but in no way can I shoot it as fast or accurately as my P320 X5 Legion which is what I shoot in most matches. But that gun weighs over 40 ounces unloaded and is not very practical for me to carry all the time.
It's easy to carry a P365 in virtually all situations and it's still pretty easy to shoot well. I used to carry a Glock 26 but now prefer the P365.
The choice of a carry gun is a personal preference. The P365 is my choice because I think it balances shootability and ease of carry very well.
Everyone gets to make their own choice based on the factors they think are important. But I will say I'm not that comfortable carrying a .380 or J Frame as a primary weapon.
How did you place in your IDPA matches with your 365, versus your P320?
I carry a Sig P365 year round. I shoot it sometimes in IDPA matches and can get good hits to 25 yards pretty consistently.
I think they are a great carry pistol, but in no way can I shoot it as fast or accurately as my P320 X5 Legion which is what I shoot in most matches. But that gun weighs over 40 ounces unloaded and is not very practical for me to carry all the time.
It's easy to carry a P365 in virtually all situations and it's still pretty easy to shoot well. I used to carry a Glock 26 but now prefer the P365.
The choice of a carry gun is a personal preference. The P365 is my choice because I think it balances shootability and ease of carry very well.
Everyone gets to make their own choice based on the factors they think are important. But I will say I'm not that comfortable carrying a .380 or J Frame as a primary weapon.
How did you place in your IDPA matches with your 365, versus your P320?
I score lower with a P365 vs the X5 Legion. Smaller guns are harder to shoot than full size guns. But I still shoot well enough to defend myself.
I should note that in IDPA, a P365 competes in a different division than the P320 X5 Legion. The X5 legion is in Carry Optics (since I use a red dot) and the P365 is in BUG (back up gun.)
And a lot of practical experience. A person needs to get the mindset of carrying what they might really need, not what is the most handy. A 2 shot NAA derringer is better than nothing but a bad guy with a Glock will make short work of that idea.
TRH will shoot someone in the dick with his NAA derringer before you can say Anaconda.
Size comparison--2" J Frame, Glock 43. The 43 is thinner, carries 2 more rounds, and has a better trigger. I think most people will be able to shoot the 43 much better than they can a 2" J frame.
And a lot of practical experience. A person needs to get the mindset of carrying what they might really need, not what is the most handy. A 2 shot NAA derringer is better than nothing but a bad guy with a Glock will make short work of that idea.
TRH will shoot someone in the dick with his NAA derringer before you can say Anaconda.
I carry a Sig P365 year round. I shoot it sometimes in IDPA matches and can get good hits to 25 yards pretty consistently.
I think they are a great carry pistol, but in no way can I shoot it as fast or accurately as my P320 X5 Legion which is what I shoot in most matches. But that gun weighs over 40 ounces unloaded and is not very practical for me to carry all the time.
It's easy to carry a P365 in virtually all situations and it's still pretty easy to shoot well. I used to carry a Glock 26 but now prefer the P365.
The choice of a carry gun is a personal preference. The P365 is my choice because I think it balances shootability and ease of carry very well.
Everyone gets to make their own choice based on the factors they think are important. But I will say I'm not that comfortable carrying a .380 or J Frame as a primary weapon.
How did you place in your IDPA matches with your 365, versus your P320?
I score lower with a P365 vs the X5 Legion. Smaller guns are harder to shoot than full size guns. But I still shoot well enough to defend myself.
I should note that in IDPA, a P365 competes in a different division than the P320 X5 Legion. The X5 legion is in Carry Optics (since I use a red dot) and the P365 is in BUG (back up gun.)
Try your scores at 5 yards - the distance at which you would likely be defending yourself anyway. Probably won't be a bit of difference in those scores.
Try your scores at 5 yards - the distance at which you would likely be defending yourself anyway. Probably won't be a bit of difference in those scores.
I score lower with a P365 vs the X5 Legion. Smaller guns are harder to shoot than full size guns. But I still shoot well enough to defend myself.
I should note that in IDPA, a P365 competes in a different division than the P320 X5 Legion. The X5 legion is in Carry Optics (since I use a red dot) and the P365 is in BUG (back up gun.)
Yes I understand.
But if you enter with a 365 in the same division that has everyone else using a P320 size gun, where do you place?
And how does this contrast against how you place with your full size gun?
I score lower with a P365 vs the X5 Legion. Smaller guns are harder to shoot than full size guns. But I still shoot well enough to defend myself.
I should note that in IDPA, a P365 competes in a different division than the P320 X5 Legion. The X5 legion is in Carry Optics (since I use a red dot) and the P365 is in BUG (back up gun.)
Yes I understand.
But if you enter with a 365 in the same division that has everyone else using a P320 size gun, where do you place?
And how does this contrast against how you place with your full size gun?
As I said, I score lower with the P365. And I see the same pattern with other experienced shooters when they shoot a BUG. That's why there are different divisions.
It's common knowledge that full sized guns are easier to shoot. Still, a skilled shooter can do well with a compact gun, though he might do even better in the combined ranking with a full sized gun.
A fine firearm to be sure, but I’m pretty sure Ol’ Gaston (he’s still alive at 94) intended for his inventions to be carried with a holster secured snugly around that wide, squared-off trigger guard and that 5.5lb “safe” ( ) action trigger.
Opinions may vary but for pocket carry the j-frame reigns supreme.
For you guys that IWB fairly slim full-size autos like the 1911, G48, etc, how many inches did you need to move up in your waist size of your pants, on average?
For you guys that IWB fairly slim full-size autos like the 1911, G48, etc, how many inches did you need to move up in your waist size of your pants, on average?
For you guys that IWB fairly slim full-size autos like the 1911, G48, etc, how many inches did you need to move up in your waist size of your pants, on average?
I've been carrying IWB since the early 1990s (from 1980 till the early 1990s, pocket, OWB, and sometimes the old fashioned style IWB holsters), for the most part full sized handguns like K-Frame S&W revolvers, 1911s, and Glock 19/17 (more recently, the Glock 26). I have never purchased pants with that in mind. Not once. What I adjust is the belt notch that I use when I'm carrying vs when I'm not. That's all.
I score lower with a P365 vs the X5 Legion. Smaller guns are harder to shoot than full size guns. But I still shoot well enough to defend myself.
I should note that in IDPA, a P365 competes in a different division than the P320 X5 Legion. The X5 legion is in Carry Optics (since I use a red dot) and the P365 is in BUG (back up gun.)
Yes I understand.
But if you enter with a 365 in the same division that has everyone else using a P320 size gun, where do you place?
And how does this contrast against how you place with your full size gun?
As I said, I score lower with the P365. And I see the same pattern with other experienced shooters when they shoot a BUG. That's why there are different divisions.
It's common knowledge that full sized guns are easier to shoot. Still, a skilled shooter can do well with a compact gun, though he might do even better in the combined ranking with a full sized gun.
Predictable that this would eventually come up in a discussion on ED SD carry but really irrelevant.
The only score that counts in the real world is whether you’re alive - hopefully not irrepairably wounded - and the threat(s) is/are neutralized, if you can’t avoid a situation which none of us ever wants, but imposes itself upon our lives.
Most of the factors that produce that result are related to always carrying without exception, mindset, proper training, ammunition, and familiarity with the carry pistol when the SHTF.
There are no categories to ‘make it fair’ for different pistols. The outcome is a binary possibility - who’s walking and talking at the end … and who’s not. Nature tends to be pretty uninterested and ruthless in the outcome as far as tipping the scales.
Here is an interesting comparison between a loaded, with a reload, J-frame an Sig 365XL with a full 12 round magazine and one chambered. This is not the lightest J-frame, but the XL is not the lightest 365. Since I own both, for me, the Sig is much easier to shoot than the Smith. It is pretty easy to see why the 365 is so popular.
BTW, that looks about like a pocket pistol in your mitts.
I checked out a Sig 365 X Macro this morning and was impressed. I could see it being a good fit for daily carry. Not a subcompact, but large enough to grip well.
Thank you for this thread - it has given me much to think about.
Can you share an opinion whether some of the smaller pistols (specifically, the Sig P365, Springfield Hellcat, and HK P30SK) are strong enough to handle the 9mm ammo you are selling?
I handled a Glock 41 at a gun shop today. The idea of a long slide Glock in .45 ACP with a 13 round magazine appealed to me. But it had a *fat* grip. I guess a fat grip is to be expected in a .45 ACP with a 13 round magazine.
I wanted to like it. But I couldn't make it feel right in my hand.
Thank you for this thread - it has given me much to think about.
Can you share an opinion whether some of the smaller pistols (specifically, the Sig P365, Springfield Hellcat, and HK P30SK) are strong enough to handle the 9mm ammo you are selling?
Thank you.
A bunch of guys have been running the heavy 148+P loads through their P365s. JWP475 does I know. He has picked up a bunch of it and plugs various things with it. Pigs and such. I know a few guys that use it as their woods load too that don't own or don't feel comfortable shooting heavier calibers when hiking in predator country.
I just got back from going into town. Had to run into the "big" city to get a few items for the kiddos for Christmas. While there I was forced to venture into the local Walmart. Normally I avoid the place during peak hours, but during this time of year, there really is no good time.
Long story short, got to witness two Walmartians get into a parking lot dispute. I have observed fights in the parking lot there before. The last one was during the great toilet paper famine...
This one appeared to be over one cutting off the other to take a parking spot. This resulted in one Walmartian getting out of her van and kicking the other's vehicle. She could be described as of the Oompa Loompa variety. She has been wintering well for the last 30 or so seasons..
The person who cut her off did not take kindly to having their car kicked and it resulted in a bit of a mouth fight and some shoving, before a man separated the two. I am unclear if he got out of the passenger side of the vehicle that parked or if he was just coming from that direction. All this just reminded me that people go from zero to violent for the slightest of provocations. Many of these career welfare recipients have zero impulse control and get violent with little thought of consequences.
As always I was carrying something to defend myself, as well as my family or innocent people, but common sense said this was not my circus and not my Hungry Hungry Hippos.
I just took a pic of what I was/am carrying today.
The LCP goes everywhere I go, the Sig where it's legal.
Good choices there.
I mostly carry either my Sig P365 or my Springfield HellCat as my primary carry weapon. My Ruger LCP always rides in my weak side front pocket as my BUG, regardless of my sidearm.
And my Glock Model 32 in 357 Sig along with 3 - 15 round spare mags resides permanently in the console of my truck.
I mostly carry either my Sig P365 or my Springfield HellCat as my primary carry weapon. My Ruger LCP always rides in my weak side front pocket as my BUG, regardless of my sidearm.
And my Glock Model 32 in 357 Sig along with 3 - 15 round spare mags resides permanently in the console of my truck.[/quote]
This is a repost from Dave Williams who is an associate of Trainer, John Farnham.
Farnam Student Involved in Gunfight “27 Dec 23
Christmas Eve Shooting!
One of my long-time students was involved in a fatal shooting on 24 Dec 23.
As you might expect, I can only talk about this incident in general terms.
It took place in a metro area.
My student was precipitously assaulted simultaneously by several armed-robbery suspects.
One of the suspects pointed a pistol at my student at very close range and demanded he surrender his wallet, which my student did without hesitation.
The suspect then abruptly shot my student with at least one round. A single bullet barely nicked my student’s ear!
My student immediately broke and ran, with the suspect in close pursuit.
Taking cover behind a dumpster, my student drew his own iron-sighted G19, found his sights, and began firing at the still-armed suspect who was continuing to come toward him.
Range was between four and ten meters.
Suspect was hit in the torso multiple times. He went down abruptly, dropping his pistol on the pavement next to him.
My student’s G19 functioned normally. Ammunition was Defiant 9mm 115gr TCX. No exit wounds.
Suspect was DRT.
Seeing what had just happened, his co-conspirators fled the scene without delay. They are still at-large.
My student was not injured, aside from the nick in his ear.
My student holds a current CCW permit for his state and remained at the scene while he called police.
When police arrived, my student was taken into custody and held locally for twenty-four hours, after which is was released.
Following his training, my student kept his statements to a minimum and asked that his lawyer be personally present prior to additional questioning
Ultimately, no criminal charges were filed. Even the local (liberal) prosecutor could find no legitimate reason to charge my student with a crime.
My student is an ACLDN member and currently enjoys their assertive assistance.
Curiously, this shooting incident was all but ignored by local “mainstream media,” as it does not fit their leftist agenda.
Lessons:
1) Go armed! In a “gunfight,” who finds himself without a gun will not experience a happy ending.
2) There is no substitute for personal competence! You have to know what you’re doing, before, during, and after, and have absolute confidence that you can do it. They’ll be no one there to help you in the short term. You must know and understand what to do, what not to do, what to say, what not to say.
That’s the difference between a live professional, and a dead amateur!
3) “Compliance” with demands of violent criminals does not keep one from harm, as liberal media charlatans would have us believe!
It is obvious this suspect fully intended to murder my student on the spot, no matter what his did.
4) When you’re not already, become a member of ACLDN (Armed Citizens’ Legal Defense Network), right now! Their expert assistance is invaluable.
5) Most lethal-force episodes, like most motor-vehicle accidents, are avoidable, and should be avoided whenever possible.
You know the drill:
Don’t go to stupid places. Don’t associate with stupid people. Don’t do stupid things. Have a “normal” appearance. Be in bed by 10:00pm. Don’t fail the attitude test
Yet, the foregoing incident took place in a “nice part of town,” during the day, involving an ordinary-looking male (my student), in a quiet, residential area.
Yes, we can stack the odds in our favor, but there are no “guarantees,” as we see!
My student is alive an well today, and a free man (not in jail), due to his continual preparedness, competent training, personal courage, correct mind-set.
“‘Taking the law into your own hands?’
The law IS in our hands!
‘Law enforcement’ is not something sovereign citizens seize from police officers. It is a societal function that citizens delegate to civil police.
In so doing, we do not abdicate our own sovereignty, nor our duties as citizens. Ultimate responsibility is still ours. When those we hire as our “Protectors” are either unwilling or unable to perform that function at the critical moment, there is no law, nor standard, that says we cannot perform it for ourselves.
Indeed, when personally threatened, we have no choice!”
Was just thinking of PMing you. I this the thread with the pics of your adaptation of mag pouch as holster on a chest pack? Getting one from a relative soon, and your method looked quite suitable for my treks around the area here.
Oh, may I copy that to send to my relatives that are also shooters but don't carry or don't always carry? or is there a link to the original?
Last month there was a thread in the handguns section called "Summer Carry".
It started out as the typical "what pocket gun do you carry in the hot weather" type thread.
I answered with the following post:
What gun is the minimum you are willing to get into a gunfight against one or possibly two armed bad guys with? Armed as in both have at minimum, handguns. Are you willing to get into that gunfight, which is a fight to the death, (them or you) with a Kahr that holds 7 rounds of .380?
For me, I know what my choices are. Each has to decide. Personally, I don't own any of the micro guns, that hold a very small amount of rounds, as I don't want to fall into the habit of grabbing what is comfortable, rather than what will actually get the job done. My only exception is a J Frame, and it is relegated to BUG role, and on exceedingly rare occasions a primary, but pretty much 99+% of the time I carry a gun I am willing to actually fight with and can turn in a good performance while using.
I posted again showing what I had chosen to carry that day, which was my Glock 22, .40 S&W a reload and a knife.
One of the more condescending members (Wrapids) stated:
"None of my friends in central Wisconsin feel a need to carry a gun."
Then followed up afterwards by telling one of our other members that since they carried a gun and ammo, with this post:
"Sounds like you should leave a war zone"
I posted a few days later that I was packing the following, showing this picture:
To which Wrapids replied:
"You oughtta leave a war zone."
Here is the thing.
I RARELY comment about much of the stuff that goes on and try to stay out of it for the most part.
That said. This condescending liberal attitude is exactly why we just ended up with 18 people dead and 13 more wounded. Over 30 people total, plus all their families. Kids, spouses, parents, all the people who cared for them.
NOBODY SHOT BACK.
When the fight started, nobody took the fight to the enemy. Nobody stood their ground and put rounds into the bad guy.
NOBODY.
So Wrapids, maybe you should feel the need to carry a gun, because NOBODY is coming to save you.
It is up to individuals to protect themselves. It is not the job of the government, or the nanny state. You are responsible for your own protection and those you care for who are unable to protect themselves.
You and NOBODY ELSE.
Your typical liberal won't fight his own fight, but he sure will call the police and have someone else do it. He is too scared to do the job himself, but not too scared to put someone else at risk. Pathetic.
Back on point,
You don't get to pick and choose when these things are going to happen or where. They are like a gift from a stranger. You have to unwrap it and deal with it, no matter what it is. Odds are that the situation will not be in your favor as the bad guy(s) will have planned it that way. So deal with it.
That is why you carry a gun you are willing to get into a fight with, and actually be prepared to fight.
Just one person with a gun and some skills could have made a difference and changed the outcome drastically.
Think about Eli Dickens.
The 22 year old young man who stopped what would have been a massacre in a shopping mall. He did so by carrying a gun daily and practicing. When the time came, he did not run, he took the fight to the enemy and stopped a massacre before really got going.
Any of you ever had a hand or hands so badly mangled you couldn't rack a auto? Single action only for me in 44 mag, can handle everything needed to do with it one handed.
Was just thinking of PMing you. I this the thread with the pics of your adaptation of mag pouch as holster on a chest pack? Getting one from a relative soon, and your method looked quite suitable for my treks around the area here.
Oh, may I copy that to send to my relatives that are also shooters but don't carry or don't always carry? or is there a link to the original?
Are you asking about the pictures of the Hill People Gear and M4 mag pouch mod pics that I use for autos?
I've been following this thread since it started. I was also one of the ones who.posted in the summer thread that I was fine carrying my lcp with an extra mag.
I've found myself carry my hellcat with red dot and light nearly everyday now for about a month with an extra mag.
Good conversations and reminders throughout this thread.
Was just thinking of PMing you. I this the thread with the pics of your adaptation of mag pouch as holster on a chest pack? Getting one from a relative soon, and your method looked quite suitable for my treks around the area here.
Oh, may I copy that to send to my relatives that are also shooters but don't carry or don't always carry? or is there a link to the original?
Are you asking about the pictures of the Hill People Gear and M4 mag pouch mod pics that I use for autos?
Those?
Exactly that. Thanks,
Relative has an HPG chest rig thry've only used a couple of times and are going to put up for sale. Asked if I'd be interested and I've been looking at them for a bit. So I'll get into one for about 1/2 HPG's sale price to try. When I saw your pics I thought that would be a suitable solution to pack the .45 when we take the dogs out on the BLM land behind our place.
I think you mentioned it before, but my old brain has forgotten what the gray itme attached to the front of the pack is? Seems you have the mag pouches attached to that?
The grey/green pouches are Blue Force Gear "10 Speed" pouches. You can get them in various sizes that will take single M4 mags, pistol mags, whatever. The ones shown are for single rifle mags and work great for Tikka rifle mags, phones, knives, etc.
Yup, well maybe you'll find out the hard way some day you dumb [bleep]...
Phil
So how many businesses are your buds going to be burning and how many innocent people are your buds and Rothschild paid Antifa, muzzy and central and south American Soros paid mercenaries going to kill this coming year in their mostly peaceful rioy and anarchy while trying to stop the vote in America's dimocommie controlled major cities?
Yup, well maybe you'll find out the hard way some day you dumb [bleep]...
Phil
So how many businesses are your buds going to be burning and how many innocent people are your buds and Rothschild paid Antifa, muzzy and central and south American Soros paid mercenaries going to kill this coming year in their mostly peaceful rioy and anarchy while trying to stop the vote in America's dimocommie controlled major cities?
Care to hazard a guess?
I saw a stat that anti-Jew hate in USA is up 388% since Israel/Hamas conflict. Could be the 2024 riot season will be focused on Jew communities. That could be suburban rather than urban city centers.
Thought you were referencing the Lewiston ME mass shooting of October 25 this year.
The thread has information and lessons that are pertinent to anywhere.
Copy that. The places in Lewiston were posted no firearms. Military trained firearms instructor saw easy targets with zero resistance. Someone engaging him might have caused him to break off the attack. We’ll never know. I hope the owners of those businesses remember their actions caused lives of their customers to be lost.
Any of you ever had a hand or hands so badly mangled you couldn't rack a auto? Single action only for me in 44 mag, can handle everything needed to do with it one handed.
Phil
I like the odds of not having to rack a pistol for at least 6 shots, more likely 12-15; mangled hand or no. How are you at reloading your revolver after 5, with or without a mangled hand?
The gymnastics of trying to reload a single-action revolver in a gunfight with only one working arm/hand would have to resemble a monkey f'ing a football.
The gymnastics of trying to reload a single-action revolver in a gunfight with only one working arm/hand would have to resemble a monkey f'ing a football.
This thread has been highly entertaining with all the spouting off of the "Know Nothings".
I don't know Mackay all that well but with the discussions and correspondence we've had I know that Mackay is a man that knows what he's talking about when it comes to self defense, I also know he's shot more rounds in the last 4 years than 99.9% of the good folks here have shot in there lifetimes including myself and I have shot a lot in my life. I now shoot 2000 to 3000 rounds a year just for practice, I wish I had time for more.
Fact of the matter is Mackay has more experience in most things gun than most here have had licking windows so if Mackay makes a suggestion I strongly suggest to take it to heart and and study it, I know I will and do.
This thread has been highly entertaining with all the spouting off of the "Know Nothings".
I don't know Mackay all that well but with the discussions and correspondence we've had I know that Mackay is a man that knows what he's talking about when it comes to self defense, I also know he's shot more rounds in the last 4 years than 99.9% of the good folks here have shot in there lifetimes including myself and I have shot a lot in my life. I now shoot 2000 to 3000 rounds a year just for practice, I wish I had time for more.
Fact of the matter is Mackay has more experience in most things gun than most here have had licking windows so if Mackay makes a suggestion I strongly suggest to take it to heart and and study it, I know I will and do.
Just my 2 cents, no fuqking refunds either!
Thank you for the Kudos my Friend.
Sometimes there are lessons in life that we can learn through the unfortunate experiences of others, including tragedies.
Back in the 80’s I felt comfortable with a J frame snubby and a 5 shot speed loader for EDC. Once the street urchins started carrying high capacity autos, I changed my tactics. I now carry a minimum 9 shot 9mm auto pistol with at least one spare. I carry a pocket flashlight, and a knife also. Once you get used to carrying these things, you feel naked without them.
The example I posted the day before yesterday of the guy who was involved in a shooting on Christmas eve is a solid example of why a J Frame may really not be up to the task these days. He faced several armed robbery suspects, and they tried to kill him anyways even after he complied with their wishes. His combined tactics as well as skill at arms with a G19 is likely what prevented him from being a dead victim.
Today I am carrying my G22 .40 with some hot 170 grain loads, a spare mag, and my 20+ year old Emerson folder.
Just took a cruise in the Glock 22 section on GB, used 22's I might add. Looking like a person could get a decent M22 for a tic over 300 bucks OTD. Just a thought, considering the name of this thread plus the SHTF thread.
Folks may or may not agree on the Short & Weak term, but unaware of any 9 that can match the energy of several good 40 loads. Also remembering what ammo was available during the last shortage. The 40 may not be tre chic anymore, but still a damn good gun for fighting with IMO.
The example I posted the day before yesterday of the guy who was involved in a shooting on Christmas eve is a solid example of why a J Frame may really not be up to the task these days. He faced several armed robbery suspects, and they tried to kill him anyways even after he complied with their wishes. His combined tactics as well as skill at arms with a G19 is likely what prevented him from being a dead victim.
Today I am carrying my G22 .40 with some hot 170 grain loads, a spare mag, and my 20+ year old Emerson folder.
MS: Intrigued by the magazine pouches you use. Looks like they would be a perfect low profile pocket-carry way to have your magazine clean and free of pocket lint or other debris.
Have looked for something like them in various mail order places but have seen none.
Just took a cruise in the Glock 22 section on GB, used 22's I might add. Looking like a person could get a decent M22 for a tic over 300 bucks OTD. Just a though, considering the name of this thread plus the SHTF thread.
Folks may or may not agree on the Short & Weak term, but unaware of any 9 that can match the energy of several good 40 loads. Also remembering what ammo was available during the last shortage. The 40 may not be tre chic anymore, but still a damn good gun for fighting with IMO.
No 9mm load out there is going to match a 170 grain at 1200 FPS.
The example I posted the day before yesterday of the guy who was involved in a shooting on Christmas eve is a solid example of why a J Frame may really not be up to the task these days. He faced several armed robbery suspects, and they tried to kill him anyways even after he complied with their wishes. His combined tactics as well as skill at arms with a G19 is likely what prevented him from being a dead victim.
Today I am carrying my G22 .40 with some hot 170 grain loads, a spare mag, and my 20+ year old Emerson folder.
MS: Intrigued by the magazine pouches you use. Looks like they would be a perfect low profile pocket-carry way to have your magazine clean and free of pocket lint or other debris.
Have looked for something like them in various mail order places but have seen none.
Are they homemade?
Nope,
The are by Blue Force Gear.
10-Speed pouches. I use them on my belt, in my pocket, as well as attached to my HPG Kit bag. They make them for M4 mags as well.
No 9mm load out there is going to match a 170 grain at 1200 FPS.
I'm sure that's true as far as energy figures are concerned. But will the average dirtbag be able to discern the difference between a .40 caliber hardcast bullet fully penetrating his body and a .356 caliber hardcast bullet doing the same?
Many people want a gun/tool that is up to multiple tasks, not a one trick pony. People want a gun that they can use both for in town, as well as animal/large animal defense, trail defense, etc. My experience has shown that there are quite few people who have tried larger frame 10mm/.45 sized guns and never really got comfortable shooting them, or were nearly as proficient shooting them, as compared to shooting a smaller, standard frame that they could get a better grip on.
When actually tested against a timer, the results showed significant performance degradation with the larger frames for the majority of people who were not very dedicated shooters and shot the larger framed guns frequently.
The goal of the +P 40 project was to develop a highly accurate .40 load that could be handled by the majority of people, even those with small to medium size hands. It took over a year and over 2,000 rounds of various projectiles to determine what was the right projectile to deliver the exceptional accuracy at top speed that would be extremely reliable in your typical modern service auto.
The result ended up being better than expected and outperformed some big name factory 10mm loads when it came to actual chronograph testing. It ended up being a load that I would have zero issue carrying in big bear/predator country. Plus you can actually shoot it rapidly and get good hits.
The accuracy speaks for itself:
I have carried the G22 .40 a lot over the last year, simply for the fact that the gun/ammo combo is so accurate, I feel confident in the ability it gives me make difficult shots.
The gun shown is a Gen 3 with a totally stock barrel and I have zero issues. I DO NOT recommend using a Gen 2.
If I was buying a Glock today, I would go with a Gen 5 and not look back. Every one of the Gen 5 guns I have handled, inspected has been very tight and displayed good to great accuracy.
They are the exact same frame size. In fact you can buy a conversion barrel that drops in and turns your .40 into a 9mm. They are pretty inexpensive. All you need is the conversion barrel and some 9mm mags and you are good to go.
Kerzactly, as far as I know. Seems the gen 5 has had some dimensions played with but gens 2,3 & 4 of 9 & 40 fit the same in closely molded kydex holsters.
Yes, the SLIDE size was significantly increased on the Gen 5 Model 22. It is a full 3 ounces heavier than gen 2-4, now essentially the same slide height and width dimension as the 20/21 slides.
I have two of them (standard and MOS), Happily they fit nicely in the hundreds of 20/21 holsters out there.
This was my EDC when I was a plain clothes Detective. I still carry the G27 from time to time. Most days now it’s the G43 with Shield Arms 9 round mags, or my P365XL with 12+1 in the pistol, and a 15 round spare in my off side pocket.
That is extremely close to what I carried as a Detective Ron.
I was issued a Compact M&P .40.
I carried it w/a spare mag along with a pocket knife, and mini flashlight.
I always had my S&W J Frame 442 in my front left (non dominant) side pocket.
That way if there was an unknown contact, or someone I was not sure about, I could have a full firing grip on my J Frame while appearing to simply have my hand casually in my pocket. Once I determined that they were not a threat, I simply removed my hand and went on with business. This simple method eliminated a lot of complaints, versus having your hand visible on your gun which was on your belt.
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) Anyhow, I settled on a G36 a long while, then a G30s, G29 was sweet, but this was after some surgeries, still needed more grip strength. So then I became a G19 addict. My little 4" Security Six 38 Special ( my dear friend gunsmith who died awhile back was a wiz at tuning revolvers, it is one accurate little Jewel) became my calling pistol, woods loafing buddy. To me, a good gunbelt/quality holster, the G34 - G17 worked swell, but the G19 ( sometimes a G23) stole my heart. THEN here came the G43x and the Shield Arms 15 shooter....."Bliss", ha. 
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