Originally Posted by Boogaloo
Originally Posted by brayhaven
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
brayhaven,

Ackley's tests were deeply flawed. More recent tests, with better testing equipment (including pressure-sensitive taper used in a number of industrial applications) indicate case shape has zero effect on "breech pressure"--the pressure on the bolt face. This is because at pressures above .30-30 level cartridges brass stretches, and overall chamber pressure is distributed equally to the bolt face. Extremely heavy-walled cases might prevent this, but not many commercial cases are heavy enough to prevent stretching at 60,000 PSI.


I would respectfully disagree with those conclusions. My 45 years gunsmithing & shooting show the opposite. In fact with a dry chamber and cartridge case, there is very little pressure on the bolt face. Proof of this is easily seen in rifles with excess headspace. If the case & chamber are not oiled, the primer simply backs out against the bolt face. It's one reason headspace is not as important in regards to safety as some would have us believe.
If the case were hitting the bolt face, the primer would be flush. Stretching occurs in the area just ahead of the case head and forward.
The minimum body taper reduces the likelihood of thrust in a clean oiled environment. And the 30/30 AI loads he used were much higher pressures than factory. He always offered to shoot the 30/30 AI in a 94 win with the locking lugs removed to prove his point. Never heard of anyone taking him up on it though :o).


I've seen reports of that test being done, but lots of folks promote incorrect ideas in all fields, including scientific ones, that get accepted by the mainstream.

I'm not familiar with Ackley's educational background, but it seems that having even a few basic Physics courses under the belt would show the difference between assumptions and conclusions, and the errors in that conclusion should be evident.

I think Ackley had a problem with basic measurement that he made up for with enthusiasm.

And yet...

Many kudos to him for his pioneering efforts!


I don't know what Ackley's educational background was either. Likely the school of hard knocks. But many of his conclusions were based on actual testing, "trial & error" and results rather than "enthusiasm" or theories. He did differentiate between breech and chamber pressure, the former of which is variable with case design, brass strength, and chamber conditions. But you're right that a lot of things become accepted as facts because they're on the web or published in one of the gun rags, that are rubbish. Some of the gun nonsense I read online makes me laugh out loud and shake my head. Seems to be about as much misinformation as information. frown

"It doesn’t matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn’t matter how smart you are. If it doesn’t agree with experiment, it’s wrong." Nobel physicist Richard Feynman

Last edited by brayhaven; 05/07/16.

Greg
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