well......I've hit em with a 180 grain silver tip outta a .300 Savage and they laughed at me...I smoked em with a 12 ga. Copper Solid Remington Slug 3" and they thought it was a deer fly..but I did get one bang flop with my 1992 Chevy Blazer...that one was easy to track...good blood trail across my hood..down past the passenger door and 6 more feet to the shoulder of the road.. This was all done in N.W. Ionia County-Michigan.

shoot straight
Tom