|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,048 Likes: 65
Campfire Sage
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,048 Likes: 65 |
Madison's #46 was constrained and limited to his knowledge of existing weapons,lethal and non-lethal,in possession of the government during that era. The principle stands, however.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 434
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 434 |
I was hit by the 1988 semi auto ban after Hungerford, hit by the 1997 hangun ban after Dunblane. All shooters where vilified by the media as perverts and killers of children. We fought and we lost. We did some of the largest peaceful demo�s in London, and brought the city to stand still a number of times, and this wasn�t covered by the media, and the little that was shown, was a very brief clip at the end of the news. The media isn't supposed to take sides and just report, but they are only interested in sensationalised B/S. Your NRA is more powerful than our NRA ever was, and you have to support them. You also have to support each other and all aspects of shooting. Some time shooters are their own worst enemy! Stick together, and fight as one. We had pistol shooters in 88, saying we will be fine , they will just ban semi auto rifles, then in 97 we had shotgunners, saying �Oh, well it will only effect pistol shooters�..I needn�t worry� and they reduced semi/pump to 3 shot, they just start chipping away , first with , semi autos, then the pistols, then on ammo, then they keep doing a bit more. I've seen it in the UK and also in Australia.
This reminds me of a poem written during the 1940's by Martin Niemoller
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out� Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out� Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out� Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me�and there was no one left to speak for me.
Once they start chippin they won't stop. don't let them start. Cheer's Paul.
Last edited by paul375; 12/17/12.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,296 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,296 Likes: 6 |
I don't own any AR's or such (yet) but do own semi auto shotguns. How likely is it that the government could take someone's semi's.
How were semis ("assault rifles") handled under the last ban? Could you transfer ownership? If they try a direct confiscation, nothing else will matter anyway. Gunner
Trump Won!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,048 Likes: 65
Campfire Sage
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,048 Likes: 65 |
I was hit by the 1988 semi auto ban after Hungerford, hit by the 1997 hangun ban after Dunblane. All shooters where vilified by the media as perverts and killers of children. We fought and we lost. We did some of the largest peaceful demo�s in London, and brought the city to stand still a number of times, and this wasn�t covered by the media, and the little that was shown, was a very brief clip at the end of the news. The media isn't supposed to take sides and just report, but they are only interested in sensationalised B/S. Your NRA is more powerful than our NRA ever was, and you have to support them. You also have to support each other and all aspects of shooting. Some time shooters are their own worst enemy! Stick together, and fight as one. We had pistol shooters in 88, saying we will be fine , they will just ban semi auto rifles, then in 97 we had shotgunners, saying �Oh, well it will only effect pistol shooters�..I needn�t worry� and they reduced semi/pump to 3 shot, they just start chipping away , first with , semi autos, then the pistols, then on ammo, then they keep doing a bit more. I've seen it in the UK and also in Australia.
This reminds me of a poem written during the 1940′s by Martin Niemoller
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out� Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out� Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out� Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me�and there was no one left to speak for me.
Once they start chippin they won't stop. don't let them start. Cheer's Paul. Sounds like the same folks who run our MSM run yours.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,361 Likes: 10
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,361 Likes: 10 |
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe, an Obama phone, free health insurance. and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 434
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 434 |
Steve, glad you posted that clip. I was on those protests at the start of the clip run by The sportsmans Association in 1997. The apathy among shooters was dreadful. At the time we had a membership of our range of about 300. Out of those only 25 went to the protest and that included wives/girlfriends. Infact people still went to use the range on the day of the protests. So many thought they they won't ban hand guns, but this was just over 10 years after the ban of semi-auto rifles. The use of handguns in crime rose by 40% in the two years after the weapons were banned in 97' Please don't any one think it will stop with semi auto rifles. I remember shotgunners saying they will never ban shotguns, "you have never heared of any one going on a rampage with a side by side...well Derek Bird a taxidriver from Whitehaven went on a rampage in 2010 with a 12gSG and a CZ452 .22lr, killing 12 and wounding 11. But then again, Britains biggest serial killer was a guy called Harold Shipman, who killed over 300 people and never use a gun. He was a doctor who got a kick out of putting people down with an injection. If someone wants to kill large numbers of people they will, either with a firearm or an IED or any way they want. Its strange isn't it , a guy goes on a rampage with a gun and and every one is calling for a ban to make the world safer, But when a guy gets on a bus with a bomb and blows it up, no one calls for a ban on Islam, or ban mosques, Its how can we be friends with these people and what can we do for them!
Last edited by paul375; 12/17/12.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 314
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 314 |
the cat is already out of the bag. Pandora's box opened long ago. There are probably better than 100 million firarms in America. No freaking way they can be 'rounded up'......... There are a lot more than 100 million firearms in this country. And of course, that decreases the feasibility of any confiscation plan. It decreases the feasibility of any plan given the large public outcry (and subsequent voting at the next election). since they started counting (mid 50's) up till 2008 he count was somwhere in the neighborhood of 350,000,000. As well there are 350,000,000 single family homes in the CONUS. And apartments and office buildings, storage buildings, wharehouses, ect ect ect. There is NO WAY a force smaller than the chinese army could conduct a search. Not even if every man, woman and child were to stand in the yard with the doors open and offer ZERO resistance. Its not a realistic idea. Anyone who proposes it obviously needs a lesson in geography, math and history. State and local PD's could surely be tasked with the job, and perhaps even a million newly hired TSA-style agents. And whos going to be doing thier job while they are out going thugh peoples cubbards? Who is going to be watching the banks? Running radar to write tickets so that the state highways dont go broke? While the cops are searching storage buildings who is going to answer the 911 calls? So while they are taking away peoples guns they are ot going to be enforcing any laws? Really guys. Heroin is illegal. Cocaine is illegal. The same dolts enforcing those laws are the dolts who would be trying to stop guns. And just like suburban grow houses sprang up the day the DEA started using choppers garage machine shops will spring up. I assure you, that if an 11 year old arab boy in Peshwar can put an AK47 together in a tent, theres not going to be any shortage of NEW homemade firearms. Looks like those guys would kill for a Laz-Y-Boy!
Friend don't let friends use see through sights!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,489
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,489 |
Yep. That is coming.
Guns are worthless with the ammo.
stumpy
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 335
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 335 |
I could almost envision so-called "assault weapons" and other heinous "weapons" du jour pushed over to the purview of NFA/Title II weapons. Not quite banned, but transfer and interstate transport would be heavily restricted. I could this also. No laws needed, just reclassify "assault" weapons and high cap magazines to NFA Class II weapons. 6month wait, $200 tax stamp, STRONG background check would crush sales.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,659
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,659 |
The Fed coming to get a semi auto you already own....I don't think so.
Ending future sales ------ They are going to try !!!!!!
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much" Teddy Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,897 Likes: 6
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,897 Likes: 6 |
The retired police officer is right, trying to shoot it out with LEO's coming to confiscate guns would be a very bad idea and totally unnecessary. There are hundreds of millions of us in the this country and if we united they could not put us all in jail. Hell if we all just refused to go to work or buy anything other than necessities until the nonsense stopped it would collapse the economy and the government.
I also seriously doubt that they will try and collect any existing weapons. They seem to be planning a repeat of what they did in 1994. But if it ever did come to a head, NONVIOLENCE is the only way to win.
Personally I think that they secretly want a gun nut to shoot a cop just to further their agenda which is to portray all of us as maniacs. Non violence and economic retribution would be the way to go.
"Men must be governed by God or they will be ruled by tyrants". --- William Penn
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,073
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,073 |
Everybody needs to read what Paul 375 has to say. I believe he is spot on. He also has expienced this first hand. Hasbeen
hasbeen (Better a has been than a never was!)
NRA Patron member Try to live your life where the preacher doesn't have to lie at your funeral
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,794 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,794 Likes: 4 |
Good grief you guys. The hyperbolic drama here borders on silly'
There will be no gun confiscations nor any EOs. As I said earlier, there may be some attempt to add something clever inside the fiscal cliff bill as a rider but it dies in the House.
It's all feel good political talk based on the heat and trauma of the moment but once folks settle down and grab back their hold on reality, it will likely play out with some vanilla feel good legislation having minimal impact, if not enjoined by the fed courts or the Sup Ct.
To think a gun control EO is at the dawn is just silly. I'm not so optimistic... I seriously doubt he'd try anything as stupid as straight out confiscation, but he'll try something. And it will almost surely be things that he can just have existing federal agencies do - legally or illegally. Bricktop's comment about the NFA is one thing that has me worried.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,696
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,696 |
I suspect it will start with an another attempt to close the "gun show loophole" as well as another assault weapons ban. They will run a joint PR junket to show the scary guns that any future murderer can buy any given weekend and it will play very well with the general public. They will fortify the campaign with images from Aurora, Newtown and sadly whatever the next incident is because there will be undoubtedly be another.
As for an all out weapons ban - I for one can't see it. Who is going to take these guns by force if it comes to it? We are talking civil war here as the officers, agents and soldiers that would be relied upon for this would be opposing their own friends and family.
Taxes, licensing and permitting could cripple future sales and continued use of weapons and ammo and I can see that as being an issue. The fact that by shear #'s the Democratic party is moving towards being a strong majority.
I for one am taking a look at my current gun and ammo lineup and projecting what my future wants/needs may be so that I don't get caught wishing I would have bought "X" back in the good old days when you still could. Reloading is looking like a real good idea to me right now.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,166
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,166 |
Outright confiscation won't be necessary. If legislation is passed making it a felony to own, the weapons will be turned in under an amnesty program. The majority of owners won't like it, but they'll do it anyway. Think about it - is being incarcerated worth hanging onto a weapon that cannot be used legally?
I personally think that's where it's headed. Since I don't want to be left holding the bag, I'm getting rid of my AR and M1-A ASAP. I never shoot the things anyway. Let someone else deal with it.
Last edited by 270Mag; 12/17/12.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,187 Likes: 3
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,187 Likes: 3 |
Steve, glad you posted that clip. I was on those protests at the start of the clip run by The sportsmans Association in 1997. The apathy among shooters was dreadful. At the time we had a membership of our range of about 300. Out of those only 25 went to the protest and that included wives/girlfriends. Infact people still went to use the range on the day of the protests. So many thought they they won't ban hand guns, but this was just over 10 years after the ban of semi-auto rifles. The use of handguns in crime rose by 40% in the two years after the weapons were banned in 97' Please don't any one think it will stop with semi auto rifles. I remember shotgunners saying they will never ban shotguns, "you have never heared of any one going on a rampage with a side by side...well Derek Bird a taxidriver from Whitehaven went on a rampage in 2010 with a 12gSG and a CZ452 .22lr, killing 12 and wounding 11. But then again, Britains biggest serial killer was a guy called Harold Shipman, who killed over 300 people and never use a gun. He was a doctor who got a kick out of putting people down with an injection. If someone wants to kill large numbers of people they will, either with a firearm or an IED or any way they want. Its strange isn't it , a guy goes on a rampage with a gun and and every one is calling for a ban to make the world safer, But when a guy gets on a bus with a bomb and blows it up, no one calls for a ban on Islam, or ban mosques, Its how can we be friends with these people and what can we do for them! Well said, and spot on.. Good grief you guys. The hyperbolic drama here borders on silly'
There will be no gun confiscations nor any EOs. As I said earlier, there may be some attempt to add something clever inside the fiscal cliff bill as a rider but it dies in the House.
It's all feel good political talk based on the heat and trauma of the moment but once folks settle down and grab back their hold on reality, it will likely play out with some vanilla feel good legislation having minimal impact, if not enjoined by the fed courts or the Sup Ct.
To think a gun control EO is at the dawn is just silly. Bot, you are THE most optimistic dude I've ever known.. Somehow, you seem to trust this gov't implicitly no matter what happens.. 'Vanilla feel-good' legislation is what has gotten us here today; it's called 'gun-free school zones' - in order to 'make the children safer'.. Please.. I'm not so optimistic... I seriously doubt he'd try anything as stupid as straight out confiscation, but he'll try something. And it will almost surely be things that he can just have existing federal agencies do - legally or illegally. Bricktop's comment about the NFA is one thing that has me worried. Everyone should be worried.. The Emperor has gone rogue so many times in various issues that he'll look at this as a challenge..
Last edited by Redneck; 12/17/12.
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69 Pro-Constitution. LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,048 Likes: 65
Campfire Sage
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,048 Likes: 65 |
Bob, you are THE most optimistic dude I've ever known.. Somehow, you seem to trust this gov't implicitly no matter what happens.. Amazing, isn't it?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,942 Likes: 16
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,942 Likes: 16 |
I don't think it would even be possible. Andy, I didn't think it was ever possible that Obummer would be elected for a second term... that one didn't work out so well for me... I don't trust ANYTHING attached to the government anymore... especially as long as the radical leftists are running the country...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,580
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,580 |
Outright confiscation won't be necessary. If legislation is passed making it a felony to own, the weapons will be turned in under an amnesty program. The majority of owners won't like it, but they'll do it anyway. Think about it - is being incarcerated worth hanging onto a weapon that cannot be used legally?
I personally think that's where it's headed. Since I don't want to be left holding the bag, I'm getting rid of my AR and M1-A ASAP. I never shoot the things anyway. Let someone else deal with it. I did a little math the other night. You are looking at 100 BILLION dollars in compensation for that property. If you think it is going to be allowed legally or morally to simply take that much property and destroy it, well, I think the law of unintended consequences may come into play if tried. Damn, I hope not.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,942 Likes: 16
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,942 Likes: 16 |
The retired police officer is right, trying to shoot it out with LEO's coming to confiscate guns would be a very bad idea and totally unnecessary. There are hundreds of millions of us in the this country and if we united they could not put us all in jail. Hell if we all just refused to go to work or buy anything other than necessities until the nonsense stopped it would collapse the economy and the government.
I also seriously doubt that they will try and collect any existing weapons. They seem to be planning a repeat of what they did in 1994. But if it ever did come to a head, NONVIOLENCE is the only way to win.
Personally I think that they secretly want a gun nut to shoot a cop just to further their agenda which is to portray all of us as maniacs. Non violence and economic retribution would be the way to go. people in this country are predominantly too darn lazy and too self centered to ever organize and make a stand like that... its just easier for them to complain about it afterwards and shrug their shoulders and say 'what can you do??' heck, the public won't even organize and resist high fuel prices that are shoved down our throats... 'but what can you do, and I have to go to work and to the store...' we have turned predominantly into a nation of sheep..
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
|
|
|
|
432 members (10gaugemag, 160user, 1beaver_shooter, 06hunter59, 1Longbow, 1badf350, 38 invisible),
2,610
guests, and
1,136
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,194,784
Posts18,536,266
Members74,041
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|