Enjoyed reading this discussion, thanks. And I WAS going to say that even with a few differing opinions, I really like that the tape measures haven't come out all that much... but I see a few Stanleys warming up now...
I've looked into force fetching in a couple very specific situations... 1.) A ball spitter; fetch crazy dog. Great material to work with, but I need pup to look at ME and listen ME, not just lose his mind about the next one coming up. 2.) A player. Stopping short, tossing birds into the air, rolling on them, plucking, etc. FF has the same effect, makes them look to me to finish the job. 3.) Timid or overly submissive dog fetching around other (fetch crazy?) dogs, FF makes them more determined to get all the way to me before allowing me or any other dog to take their fetch from them.
Other than those, and similar situations, I think it's kinda like Public Schools... teaching to the tests. Sure, they can pass the test, but how employable are they!?!? My Dad used to say that schoolwork would "teach you to think..." I don't know if he'd say that anymore. Sadly. Best dogs think on their feet, AND listen when directed.
I have nothing against the clubs and associations, in fact I wish I had the time to participate in one or a few of them. I'd love investing time in trials and dog testing associations. But I have random minutes of spare time at this point, say nothing about random weekends or weeks to wonder what to do with. Maybe someday.
My two cents, E-collars are awesome. (Nothing cruel about them. I've tested them on myself, and hit myself harder in the tweaked back with a "tens unit" than they did.) It's simply a hearing aid for a dog. Getting their attention is the only requirement, and they work great.
