I'm thinking of buying a VX-5HD 3-15x44 and getting a custom turret cut. Somewhere along the way, I remember reading negative comments about Leupolds not tracking well. Any info on this to pass along? Thanks in advance.
Mine works just fine. Custom turret for a 280ai took an antelope in Montana at just over 600 yds. Dial was right on. Dial back to zero, still right on. YMMV Patrick
LOTSA misconceptions,in these regards. Hint. Congratulations?!?
"Custom" Turret is another way of saying Fhuqking STUPID Turret,because you are painted into a corner by literal default and pay extra to get there. Relabeling a clock's face,does not make it more "accurate","faster" or more "reliable". Concern yourself SOLELY with the scope's MECHANICS,not it's Fluff. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint.
First simply CONFIRM your scope's integrity,before you poke Lipstick on that Pig. Hang 100yd paper,scribe a plumb line vertically and mark it in accordance with the scope's "asserted" graduations. Main thing is to shoot at the same mark at bottom of plumb line and flail on the erector,to see how/if it behaves. Also madly shift zoom magnification,during same. That's a "fair" representation of what you are asking it to do,with and without lipstick. Innards do NOT change,only the circumferential Fluff. Do not bullschit yourself,by making poosy favorable moves,in order to try and dupe yourself into believing Reupold's track,return to zero and/or hold zero. Hint.
If it tracks in accordance,is lineal in graduation movements and you trust it,then you are there. Simply denote comeups and apply same as per erector graduations and forget ALL notions of The Lipstick Fluff. KEY is knowing what the fhuqk you have and how the fhuqk it behaves and how much erector travel is available to you,because EVERYTHING below Zero is 100% fhuqking USELESS. Hint.
Epic and DISMAL fhuqking failure(and par for their schitty course) NIB Burris,aboard my Heavy Vudoo. Erector didn't track or repeat and shifted hilariously in it's windage too. It's a piece of useless fhuqking schit. Relabeling it's circumference,would only add more humor to worthless piece of fhuqking schit. Hint.
Ring spacing and inclination,are a scope's BEST friend. ANY/ALL scopes. Hint.
I've had two Leupys. The first tracked so poorly I returned it multiple times. They were unable to fix it and sent me a new one. I sold it unopened.
Fast forward 8 years or so and I need an ultra lightweight scope for a particular application. I held my nose and bought another that fit the bill better than anything else I could find. It seems to track fine. Go figure. Roll the dice and see what you get. Many of them DO seem to work fine.
Custom turrets aren't for me for a variety of reasons, but I can see the utility. If you plan to use the scope on just one rifle, shoot just one load, shoot in areas with consistent air density, and don't try to shoot out past 600 or so, they are probably fine. Too many limitations for me, but I won't bash them out of hand.
Had a '18x Bushy LRHSi that wouldn't track for fhuqk on my heavy 6BR and wandered like a Reupold. Sent it back and they didn't even try to fix it and sent a LRTSi replacement,which I prefer(better reticle). Thus far it and all of my others of the ilk,have been exceptional. Hint.
Saw (3) NIB Reupolds Puke on a single outing and they've really turned to Dog Schit. But with said glass in hand,it don't take long to see WTF and KNOW what's going on. Hint.
So for a scope dedicated to one rifle having a custom turret is stupid? Even if the cost for said turret is $0.00? I still have the factory turret and like the zero stop. I have a HDMR on my long range gun and it works like a charm. I cranked on the Leupold a lot and ran several box tests on it before getting the load I wanted worked up for the custom turret. I don't baby guns and haven't had any trouble out of the several Leupolds, Nikons, Burris's, Weavers, Vortex or Zeiss. I've never seen three Leupold take a dump at one time and I've seen a bunch at tactical competitions. I still have an older Mk4 that I have never had a failure with. Not sure what you're doing wrong, perhaps you should stop throwing rifles on the ground? Patrick
So for a scope dedicated to one rifle having a custom turret is stupid? Even if the cost for said turret is $0.00? I still have the factory turret and like the zero stop. I have a HDMR on my long range gun and it works like a charm. I cranked on the Leupold a lot and ran several box tests on it before getting the load I wanted worked up for the custom turret. I don't baby guns and haven't had any trouble out of the several Leupolds, Nikons, Burris's, Weavers, Vortex or Zeiss. I've never seen three Leupold take a dump at one time and I've seen a bunch at tactical competitions. I still have an older Mk4 that I have never had a failure with. Not sure what you're doing wrong, perhaps you should stop throwing rifles on the ground? Patrick
Sweetie...take a breath and punctuate a sentence/paragraph. Hint. LAUGHING!
Do tell about your "trying" "Box Tests". I've only had 100+ Reupolds. Hint.
Perhaps cite the platforms you are "testing" scopes with. Hint. LAUGHING.
I'm thinking of buying a VX-5HD 3-15x44 and getting a custom turret cut. Somewhere along the way, I remember reading negative comments about Leupolds not tracking well. Any info on this to pass along? Thanks in advance.
I won't comment on the leupold because I've had both good and bad luck with them but must say all it'll take is a QC variance in the lot of powder, primer, bullet or whatever else...and your custom turret is off.
I generally use a 6mm BR to test scopes. It's an proven accurate rifle. Box tests are done as all box tests are done. If a scope comes back to zero, it passes that test. Most of my scopes don't get turrets turned but the ones that do get tested before they are used on living things. I don't spend much time on punctuation on forums, hint. I can't imagine the amount of money you would have to have spent to acquire a third of the schit you claim to have or have used. You write intentionally cryptic BS and throw hint and laffin in for reasons unknown. The guy asked for opinions on a specific scope. I gave him my opinion. The CDS works great and yes I understand DOPE and knowing your rifle. Sometimes it's just easier to set up a gun for a specific task and make it as easy to use as you can. That's not stupid or lazy, it's working smarter. I'm sure you will now regale us with your infinite knowledge that only you seem to possess. Hint, laffin XXX OOO Patrick
How did that moron get back on the forum? You know which moron I’m talking about.
I have a VX5 3-15 with fire dot and it has worked just fine for me. Granted, I haven’t worked it as hard as some have. It would not be my first choice, however, if I wanted maximum precision at long range, particularly in variable conditions.
Erector dumps and Full Zoom shifts are where it's at,if only for starters. Your Imagination has less than ZERO fhuqking bearing on Reality,which will only come as a "surprise" to you. Hint. LAUGHING!
Please do tell me more about how your special box test that clearly only you can conduct works. You even change the power? Holy crap how did you come up with that? You truly are the Oracle when it comes to gun stuff. Mule Deer should listen up, there's gold in them thar posts.......
I generally use a 6mm BR to test scopes. It's an proven accurate rifle. Box tests are done as all box tests are done. If a scope comes back to zero, it passes that test. Most of my scopes don't get turrets turned but the ones that do get tested before they are used on living things. I don't spend much time on punctuation on forums, hint. I can't imagine the amount of money you would have to have spent to acquire a third of the schit you claim to have or have used. You write intentionally cryptic BS and throw hint and laffin in for reasons unknown. The guy asked for opinions on a specific scope. I gave him my opinion. The CDS works great and yes I understand DOPE and knowing your rifle. Sometimes it's just easier to set up a gun for a specific task and make it as easy to use as you can. That's not stupid or lazy, it's working smarter. I'm sure you will now regale us with your infinite knowledge that only you seem to possess. Hint, laffin XXX OOO Patrick
Using a CDS is like breaking your leg on purpose so you can be faster, before running a marathon. It’s NEVER easier to use a CDS.... It’s pure stupidity.
And I have nothing else to do. Trolling helps pass the time. I do still like my Leupold. I do still think that a custom dial has a place. It's always good to know your dope but I don't see where having distance marked on a turret is a stupid thing to do. If for example your 500yd come up is 5 1/4 MOA why would it be stupid to have a turret with 500 engraved on the turret at that spot? Patrick
For me, its ok if you want to do yardage. Its a start. But a 500 yard zero is going to start to vary, altitude, barometric pressure, temperature and so on. I'd rather get it as close as I can with a swag and dial to that, rather than take an average 500 yard zero and pray. Just me.
Because your DOPE can change and shots in the field are rarely in exact distance increments.
I can see the appeal of having distance labels for quick reference on a particular hunt or shoot temporarily marked above the angular markings, but not replacing them.
Half of the life of a barrel getting it sighted in? Fine tuning a shot up or down is just as easy with a CDS as a turret. If you don't like them, don't use them. That being said the guy asked for an opinion. I gave mine. I like the scope. If you think they are junk, don't buy them. Patrick
You can also create a DOPE card for the expected conditions of each hunt and then dial exactly what your card says, rather than worrying about adding or subtracting a click or two. With that in mind, the only time you'd have to modify your DOPE is in the most extreme cases of weather varying from what you had expected for the hunt.
Half of the life of a barrel getting it sighted in? Fine tuning a shot up or down is just as easy with a CDS as a turret. If you don't like them, don't use them. That being said the guy asked for an opinion. I gave mine. I like the scope. If you think they are junk, don't buy them. Patrick
You gave your opinion, and other people gave theirs. No harm, no foul. My opinion is that Leupolds may have their place (a very specific place), but can't be depended on to reliably function correctly, and my experience has been that their ability to hold zero is also questionable, particularly on the newer iterations. The older models seemed to hold zero a bit better, but didn't reliably adjust correctly either.
You’ve obviously never sighted in a Leupold. Nothing is predictable. After running a nightforce or swfa, one realizes that it usually takes two shots to get where you need to be. That’s just how a properly functioning scope works.
You are in soooo far over your pointy head,that it's plum fhuqking amazing...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?
HILARIOUS,that Whiners cain't connect a single fhuqking dot(literally). DOPE goes on the stock and inside ocular cap. If/when ANY components change(lot numbers for example),it takes but a second and a shot to confirm. Perhaps 3 seconds to correct it. Hint.
The LAST fhuqking thing I wanna do,is tough 50%+++ of my erector away,so someone can lick & stick a fhuqking label upon same. As distance increases,corrections magnify and I use 10yd increments for many chamberings. From 400 to 410yds,with a favored 10/22,is a .8 Mil ele correction change. Might as well blackout your Speedometer,excepting a 55mph window. Hint. LAUGHING!
The Reupold won't track in lineal fashion and will jump around. IF those leaps are consistent,they can be factored,but leaps ain't consistent. Tracking graduations will certainly be different than cited too. Just a tough way to do good work,with schit that can't/don't work and then Label Fhuqking it to boot. Hint.
270/105 DOPE. Bases are covered at spittin' distance(3 Mil hold over),200yd zero plainly cited and hasty 800yd comeups easily extrapolated. It can be shucked into erector,or held upon windshield,if not both at the same time. Hint.
A 6x Fixed Fhuqker will simply trounce all things Reupold. You get 10yd parallax,40+ Mil's erector travel and 10 Mil's in the windshield. I'll always greedily take it's windshield alone,over the entirety of a Reupold's attempt at erectors. Hint.
You’ve obviously never sighted in a Leupold. Nothing is predictable. After running a nightforce or swfa, one realizes that it usually takes two shots to get where you need to be. That’s just how a properly functioning scope works.
Have several Leupolds, Monday played with the guess the adjustment game on a 6 X 36 Leupold only took about 6 shots to get it close. With the SWFA 2 x 10 LW 2 shots. Pretty disappointing to not have the adjustments work as they should, not dialing just trying to zero scope!
You can drive tent stakes with the old fixed 6 power Burris. I have a fixed 4 and 6 Leupold, the 6 has target turrets and has never failed. I use a bunch of different scopes and have never had the amount of trouble that people claim on the internet. Hell the first three or four deer I shot were killed with a tasco on see through rings on a 742. You read the internet enough and you could be convinced that combination is useless. Guess I'm just lucky. Carry on Patrick
Burris has yet to make a scope worth a fhuqk and there sure in the fhuqk ain't anything redeeming in their elder 6x's(I've few). A 742 will REALLY illustrate scope "integrity",you poor poor(literally) CLUELESS Fhuqk. Hint. Congratulations?!?
How in the fhuqk is a Brokedick Clueless Fhuqk ever going to see anything good,let alone USE it? NOBODY that has ever shot a 100yd plumb line with a Reupold in an erector dump,can say "they are good". Nobody. Hint.
I rather enjoy the Melting Snowflake Routine,which is assuredly NO fhuqking "act",nor is the Hilarious STUPIDITY. Folks who "know" and "do" as "much" as you gals,will ALWAYS be best served by asking questions,rather than giving "answers". Read that aggain. now one more time. HINT. LAUGHING!
Dumbfhuqks with Schit Riggin',will never connect a single dot,nor attain a FIRST Fhuqking Clue,though they will happily extoll same obliviously...you "lucky" kchunts. Hint. LAUGHING!
The MQ Reticle alone,crushes all thing Reupold. It just "happens" to better than (2) complete CDS turret revolutions of ele correction. Hint.
In current conditions,that reticle will only get a 243 Gasser to the 1140yd line. Hint.
Prolly don't suck to have 1150yd dope in a Seex Twat-Seex's Ocular. Hint.
Bless your hearts for trying. The only things you "shoot" are your fhuqking mouth and Imaginations.
small twig : A "legend" in his own mind! Sheesh. I have been using Leupold scopes for well over half a century now (55 years to be exact!) and the next time a Leupold scope fails me will be THE FIRST TIME! Make NO mistake small twig I will let you know when and if that happens. In case you think I have only owned/used a few I currently have 67 (sixty seven!) Leupold scopes mounted on my Rifles (and a pistol) and shoot them all! My advice to anyone thinking of taking anything small twig urps up to heart - reconsider! Sad and pathetic. Hold into the wind VarmintGuy P.S.: The Burris scopes I own also work quite commendably - again, disregard any blather that small twig may blurth - you'll be better off for it - hint. Double sheesh.
Larry's advice to me on scopes, bullets, rifles and reloading has never not come out exactly as he said it would. YMMV but I've been here a while and asked a lot.
Some might cry about delivery but damn, if it works as advertised, I don't care. I'm after answers, not poems. I've seen him help a metric ton of people on this forum over my time here.
What I can't understand is people slobber all over Vortex because 1/2 of their shipping costs are on "warranty replacements" while MF a SWFA that simply doesn't fail at near the clip Vortex does.
The BEST customer service department is the one you NEVER need to use. I don't buy chit because when I call a company for returns - they have an efficient and easy way to do so - there's a damn reason for that. Calling a company for a return should be slightly involved because they're not used to doing it. Too many people with the Walmart mentality - so what if I have to buy 6 of them, they make it easy, instead of "buy once - never see them again unless to buy again". Notice no mention of cost/price there.
small twig : A "legend" in his own mind! Sheesh. I have been using Leupold scopes for well over half a century now (55 years to be exact!) and the next time a Leupold scope fails me will be THE FIRST TIME! Make NO mistake small twig I will let you know when and if that happens. In case you think I have only owned/used a few I currently have 67 (sixty seven!) Leupold scopes mounted on my Rifles (and a pistol) and shoot them all! My advice to anyone thinking of taking anything small twig urps up to heart - reconsider! Sad and pathetic. Hold into the wind VarmintGuy P.S.: The Burris scopes I own also work quite commendably - again, disregard any blather that small twig may blurth - you'll be better off for it - hint. Double sheesh.
How many of these Leupold scopes sight in with two shots? How many hold their POA/POI. Legitimate questions.
Larry's advice to me on scopes, bullets, rifles and reloading has never not come out exactly as he said it would. YMMV but I've been here a while and asked a lot.
Some might cry about delivery but damn, if it works as advertised, I don't care. I'm after answers, not poems. I've seen him help a metric ton of people on this forum over my time here.
What I can't understand is people slobber all over Vortex because 1/2 of their shipping costs are on "warranty replacements" while MF a SWFA that simply doesn't fail at near the clip Vortex does.
The BEST customer service department is the one you NEVER need to use. I don't buy chit because when I call a company for returns - they have an efficient and easy way to do so - there's a damn reason for that. Calling a company for a return should be slightly involved because they're not used to doing it. Too many people with the Walmart mentality - so what if I have to buy 6 of them, they make it easy, instead of "buy once - never see them again unless to buy again". Notice no mention of cost/price there.
His advice is spot on, because he actually shoots, and has a no BS attitude. He is right, “it’s not hard to spot those who shoot vs shooting their mouth”.
I've had that narcotic infested gnome loser on ignore for a couple of years now. He has nothing to say that can't be found out elsewhere by shooters and hunters around here that are just as, if not more knowledgeable than that bottom feeder is. This clown has serious mental issues, which to most should be seen quite easily.
You’ve obviously never sighted in a Leupold. Nothing is predictable. After running a nightforce or swfa, one realizes that it usually takes two shots to get where you need to be. That’s just how a properly functioning scope works.
You’ve obviously never sighted in a Leupold. Nothing is predictable. After running a nightforce or swfa, one realizes that it usually takes two shots to get where you need to be. That’s just how a properly functioning scope works.
Originally Posted by qwk
Leupold VX-3 3.5-10x40 duplex reticle almost flawless $350 Leupold VX-III 4.5-14X50 slight ring marks fine duplex reticle $450 Both scopes shoot straight and track awesome.
Good lord it is easy to troll, I even said it was trolling. Stick needs to adjust his meds. I don't know about yall but I'm throwing every piece of glass I have away and getting a 6x SS. Wonder how he feels about my Savage 260? It has a Leupold on it. Patrick
You’ve obviously never sighted in a Leupold. Nothing is predictable. After running a nightforce or swfa, one realizes that it usually takes two shots to get where you need to be. That’s just how a properly functioning scope works.
Originally Posted by qwk
Leupold VX-3 3.5-10x40 duplex reticle almost flawless $350 Leupold VX-III 4.5-14X50 slight ring marks fine duplex reticle $450 Both scopes shoot straight and track awesome.
You’ve obviously never sighted in a Leupold. Nothing is predictable. After running a nightforce or swfa, one realizes that it usually takes two shots to get where you need to be. That’s just how a properly functioning scope works.
Originally Posted by qwk
Leupold VX-3 3.5-10x40 duplex reticle almost flawless $350 Leupold VX-III 4.5-14X50 slight ring marks fine duplex reticle $450 Both scopes shoot straight and track awesome.
😂😂
Those did, for how long? Who knows. They came on guns I bought. However, they did not sight in like the other makers mentioned. No matter how much you read between the lines, Leupold doesn’t have a 100% failure rate. It’s just too high for a sensible person to use them exclusively.
I’m amazed a state f-up could do a simple search like that. BTW how is did your high fence adventures pan out this past season?
The idea that The vast majority of Leupold scopes don’t work well for over 95% of the hunting population is BS. If you set your scope up zero at 200 yards & use cds dial past 400 yards less than 20 times a season you will very likely be happy.
The guys on this forum that shoot thousands of rounds in a month constantly dialing might be better served to go with Nightforce or SWFA.
When time to get the shot off means success or failure simplified dialing is superior to a written dope chart/ generic turret combination & a calibrated reticle is faster still when pressured speed & adrenaline are involved
Anyone seen a car driving down the road with heavy back end collision damage ? They usually have a ratchet strap holding the trunk closed because the mechanical parts are no longer working properly . The trunk stays closed though.
You’ve obviously never sighted in a Leupold. Nothing is predictable. After running a nightforce or swfa, one realizes that it usually takes two shots to get where you need to be. That’s just how a properly functioning scope works.
Originally Posted by qwk
Leupold VX-3 3.5-10x40 duplex reticle almost flawless $350 Leupold VX-III 4.5-14X50 slight ring marks fine duplex reticle $450 Both scopes shoot straight and track awesome.
😂😂
Those did, for how long? Who knows. They came on guns I bought. However, they did not sight in like the other makers mentioned. No matter how much you read between the lines, Leupold doesn’t have a 100% failure rate. It’s just too high for a sensible person to use them exclusively.
I’m amazed a state f-up could do a simple search like that. BTW how is did your high fence adventures pan out this past season?
The lying thief, re read, then re read it again, see who looked it up... then suck suck big slouches dick some more. Then after that, post some pics of your hunting prowess, so I know you’re for real....
You’ve obviously never sighted in a Leupold. Nothing is predictable. After running a nightforce or swfa, one realizes that it usually takes two shots to get where you need to be. That’s just how a properly functioning scope works.
Originally Posted by qwk
Leupold VX-3 3.5-10x40 duplex reticle almost flawless $350 Leupold VX-III 4.5-14X50 slight ring marks fine duplex reticle $450 Both scopes shoot straight and track awesome.
For the stupid fuuck that can’t connect the dots...
So is qwk lying about Leupolds now, or lying about them in his classified add? Viewers want to know.........
Do you really think that every Leupold comes broken out of the box? You cannot be that stupid.
The issue is quite a few(what percentage who knows), develop problems after use. Some suck from the get go. That is good enough for some until they aren’t. With Swfa ss costing 300 clams, it’s a no brainer. That is exactly the point people are trying to make.
You’ve obviously never sighted in a Leupold. Nothing is predictable. After running a nightforce or swfa, one realizes that it usually takes two shots to get where you need to be. That’s just how a properly functioning scope works.
Originally Posted by qwk
Leupold VX-3 3.5-10x40 duplex reticle almost flawless $350 Leupold VX-III 4.5-14X50 slight ring marks fine duplex reticle $450 Both scopes shoot straight and track awesome.
😂😂
Those did, for how long? Who knows. They came on guns I bought. However, they did not sight in like the other makers mentioned. No matter how much you read between the lines, Leupold doesn’t have a 100% failure rate. It’s just too high for a sensible person to use them exclusively.
I’m amazed a state f-up could do a simple search like that. BTW how is did your high fence adventures pan out this past season?
The lying thief, re read, then re read it again, see who looked it up... then suck suck big slouches dick some more. Then after that, post some pics of your hunting prowess, so I know you’re for real....
This coming from a high fence whorre, and a trespassing POS. Lol
When time to get the shot off means success or failure simplified dialing is superior to a written dope chart/ generic turret combination & a calibrated reticle is faster still when pressured speed & adrenaline are involved
It’s faster? Ok, how much faster? I mean to state that would mean you’re equally skilled at both dialing and holding, and you’ve timed it enough to have something resembling data, right?
So say from standing, spotting the animal, ranging, getting into position and hitting a deer sized vitals, how much faster to a hit? Say 90% hits at uneven yardages (278, 367, 422, etc.).
I have no Rem 700's or Leupold scopes any more. For hunting big animals a close range they were fine.
Sako, Tikka, and Steyr with a lone Savage is all that is left.
The Steyr is a 7mm-08 and has a 6x MQ on it. I free hand shoot it some as it is a deer rifle. I also bang an IPSC steel target at 1160 yards anytime I take it to the range.
I could not do that with a *Rem 700 or Leupold scope.
* the Rem 700 would need a lot of work, the Steyr is off the shelf no mods.
No I don't think every Leupold comes broken, but you certainly suggested that they did. How else could I burn up half the life of a barrel trying to get one sighted in? Patrick
God this is fun, I should poke idiots more often. Going back to work can't come soon enough.
How can I trespass hunting high fence you stupid fuuck? Go peddle your snake oil in the classifieds you thieving lying fuuck....
Explain how one can be a thief without stealing anything? A fat fuggin Bernie bro, from the commie coast, driving a T100 on the other hand, has been had...
No I don't think every Leupold comes broken, but you certainly suggested that they did. How else could I burn up half the life of a barrel trying to get one sighted in? Patrick
God this is fun, I should poke idiots more often. Going back to work can't come soon enough.
How can I trespass hunting high fence you stupid fuuck? Go peddle your snake oil in the classifieds you thieving lying fuuck....
Explain how one can be a thief without stealing anything? A fat fuggin Bernie bro, from the commie coast, driving a T100 on the other hand, has been had...
A thieving lying suckass... post some pics, of your killing prowess or shut your cockholster about scopes ...
T-100 right there, just a hint for ya. Some of us can afford (2) trucks, both being tundras btw. Your internet stalking skills are about like your word, [bleep]....
You’ve obviously never sighted in a Leupold. Nothing is predictable. After running a nightforce or swfa, one realizes that it usually takes two shots to get where you need to be. That’s just how a properly functioning scope works.
Seems my reading comprehension is just fine, maybe you just don't know how to sight in a rifle? Maybe you should get Stick to give some of his sage advice. Hint Laffin Patrick
You’ve obviously never sighted in a Leupold. Nothing is predictable. After running a nightforce or swfa, one realizes that it usually takes two shots to get where you need to be. That’s just how a properly functioning scope works.
Seems my reading comprehension is just fine, maybe you just don't know how to sight in a rifle? Maybe you should get Stick to give some of his sage advice. Hint Laffin Patrick
You are obviously too dense to sense sarcasm, although component waste is a thing with most Leupolds.
Not to mention wasting half of your barrels lifetime just to get a leupy sighted in. A properly functioning scope does not do that, period.
Looks like that was exactly what you said. Guess I must get lucky when I sight mine in. Patrick
What a stupid bastard.... Haha
A muzzie fugg lied about the condition of something for sale. How does that make me a thief again? You on the other hand are a known trespasser. Better stick to hunting on public land for a while, or your ass is toast. The locals wherever you go aren’t happy.
Sarcasm? Where did you insert sarcasm? You got your ass on your shoulders because someone dared say Leupold made good scopes. Don't crawfish on it now. Stick to your guns Sparky, Patrick
Not to mention wasting half of your barrels lifetime just to get a leupy sighted in. A properly functioning scope does not do that, period.
Looks like that was exactly what you said. Guess I must get lucky when I sight mine in. Patrick
What a stupid bastard.... Haha
A muzzie fugg lied about the condition of something for sale. How does that make me a thief again? You on the other hand are a known trespasser. Better stick to hunting on public land for a while, or your ass is toast. The locals wherever you go aren’t happy.
Haha the locals “where ever “ you go aren’t happy!!! 😂😂😂
Sorry I hunt with locals wherever I go. It’s your imagination and pretend, do with it what you must!!! Laffin
Oh, how’s it trespassing behind a high fence again?? You can’t get your own shiit talk straight!! 😂😂
As I mentioned earlier, I really like the VX5 3-15, but I did find a flaw. I was hunting hogs a while back and managed to choose the wrong stand. The hogs went to the corn I had put out near another stand. It was real dim by then, but I did know the distance, being 300 yards. I went to adjust the CDS for the distance but could not see the numbers. Certainly a problem I had not anticipated. But I had a small flashlight, so got the scope set. Now it was really dim, but I could still see the big hog and I had the fire dot on. I did manage to kill the hog.
To avoid a repeat of the problem, I bought some glow in the dark tape and marked the turret with small glow dots.
Yesterday evening I was lucky enough to see the two big boars I had been hunting. They were at about 175 and moving toward 200. No time for CDS dialing, so holdover had to do.
Bottom line...I do like my Leupold scopes, and there does not seem to be one solution to all of my hunting problems.
I got a drawer of Leupolds 8.5x25 LRT that been back to Leupold a few times and after a season they need to go back again for tracking and returning back to zero. I replaced with nightforce and never had a problem since. Should send them back one more time and sell them when they come back. For serious knob turning nightforce all the way.
The comment about barrel life may have been an exaggeration but it was not sarcasm. Surprised this has gone this far after stating twice that I was trolling. And I'm the dumbass..... Patrick
Btw, nobody is saying every Leupold is going to have a problem. The thing is that their design/ QC is not great, so you can’t count on anything. Couple that with the company denying any problems, and you have a fuggin mess.
The CDS is a solution to a problem that didn’t exist. Most of those scopes don’t have enough erector travel to shoot long distance anyway. Couple that with no speedometer on the windshield, and it’s a [bleep] choice for long range work.
You pretty much said that Leupold is junk. In multiple posts. CDS works just fine for it's intended purpose. I have dials on serious stuff and a CDS on one rifle. It was more of a lark than anything else but since it cost me nothing I sent them the data and they made the turret. So far, in multiple locations, altitudes and weather conditions it has performed as advertised. This was my answer to the original post. You dumb asses had to chime in trashing Leupolds. I've just been stringing you along for entertainments sake. I would never ask you or Stick for any real advice because as near as I can tell neither of you have a life outside of the keyboard. Thanks for playing, Patrick
You pretty much said that Leupold is junk. In multiple posts. CDS works just fine for it's intended purpose. I have dials on serious stuff and a CDS on one rifle. It was more of a lark than anything else but since it cost me nothing I sent them the data and they made the turret. So far, in multiple locations, altitudes and weather conditions it has performed as advertised. This was my answer to the original post. You dumb asses had to chime in trashing Leupolds. I've just been stringing you along for entertainments sake. I would never ask you or Stick for any real advice because as near as I can tell neither of you have a life outside of the keyboard. Thanks for playing, Patrick
I’ve lots of em, they work for me too, beats reading the reticle lookin at charts and counting clicks. IMO
Suppose you don't have a smart phone or use a calculator because why use those if you can do it yourself? Use a range finder? Anemometer? Or are those for simpletons too? Work smarter not harder. Patrick
Suppose you don't have a smart phone or use a calculator because why use those if you can do it yourself? Use a range finder? Anemometer? Or are those for simpletons too? Work smarter not harder. Patrick
Suppose you don't have a smart phone or use a calculator because why use those if you can do it yourself? Use a range finder? Anemometer? Or are those for simpletons too? Work smarter not harder. Patrick
Patrick she gets to read about via www, look at others pics, makes excuses why she can’t, then lie about why others are successful and she’s not. Also gets to lie and cheat folks outta shiit she sells.... she’s a go getter!!! 😂😂
No, just a response to your question was math hard. Suppose I should have quoted you instead of thinking you could read that on to the response. Patrick
Just rolled in from work, for the stupid sonafabitch that can’t tell the difference between a Toyota T100 and a tundra, but she’ll tell us about precision scopes!! Haha
You’ve obviously never sighted in a Leupold. Nothing is predictable. After running a nightforce or swfa, one realizes that it usually takes two shots to get where you need to be. That’s just how a properly functioning scope works.
Originally Posted by qwk
Leupold VX-3 3.5-10x40 duplex reticle almost flawless $350 Leupold VX-III 4.5-14X50 slight ring marks fine duplex reticle $450 Both scopes shoot straight and track awesome.
You’ve obviously never sighted in a Leupold. Nothing is predictable. After running a nightforce or swfa, one realizes that it usually takes two shots to get where you need to be. That’s just how a properly functioning scope works.
Originally Posted by qwk
Leupold VX-3 3.5-10x40 duplex reticle almost flawless $350 Leupold VX-III 4.5-14X50 slight ring marks fine duplex reticle $450 Both scopes shoot straight and track awesome.
I'm thinking of buying a VX-5HD 3-15x44 and getting a custom turret cut. Somewhere along the way, I remember reading negative comments about Leupolds not tracking well. Any info on this to pass along? Thanks in advance.
If you're like me and not a knob twister the Leupold is fine. Not being a knob twister I can't vouch for nor condemn the Leupold for that and/or long range shooting. But I will say, if you want a solid scope and you set and forget I will say a Leupold is a great scope and the optics are all I'll ever need. Now since I'm not into shooting 500-600 yards set and forget works for me. My Leupold's are very clear, even the cheaper one's and hold zero just fine. They're fine scopes for what I do. I don't own any mega priced ones, VX-3s are as expensive as I've gone, but not long ago VX-3s were top of the line American scopes.
Not to side track the normalcy of a Leupold thread - Just wanted to give a shout out to Leupold for losing my scope I sent in to them a month ago for issues with the poa vs poi I saw on 3 different rifles.
Owned a lot of Leupolds. This is the 3rd scope I’ve had to send in. The other two scopes were replaced with new in lieu of repairing.
I was expecting the same on this one, but, being it’s lost. Who knows how long before I see a new scope.
FYI...Leupold is working from home and repair shop personnel are maintaining 6’ft safe distances from each other. Slowing down the repair work to a crawl, I was told.
On a different note, sure is funny the butt hurt around here, when something works for someone, that doesn’t for others. That’s all for now, I need to go trespass!!! 😂😂🖕🏿🥰😍💋
. . . for 99% of huntin, you don’t need to fuuck with your scope..
100% for me. Yes, I have 1 SWFA plus Loopys w/ CDS & M1 turrets. They're fun at the range. Average shot for me for all the years I've been hunting (40+) is well under 100 yds.
One thing I noticed right away, was that the OP (goldendomer04) didn't immediately call qwk out...he simply asked for advice on a sale gone sour. Call out threads almost NEVER turn out good for the respective OP. goldendomer04 handled that one appropriately, IMO.
So it’s probably safe to say you don’t know a fuucking thing about a good killin scope?
PS where ya hunt, I’ll come trespass if only cause your a biitch... 😂😂
Yeah, scopes that track, and function better, kill less than those that don’t. Fuggin democrats.
You have trespassed here already. That’s why I brought it up.
Drama queen, let me fill ya in on a little secret, for 99% of huntin, you don’t need to fuuck with your scope..
Quit trying to peddle junk wares and try it sometime.😘
For what I do Judman you're spot on dude! I've only had to jack with scope adjustments in the field one time and that was an old Weaver T Scope that had exposed turrets that got turned on me one morning hunting deer. I put the rifle on the hood of the truck on top of my jacket and took the bolt out and bore sited on a telephone pole, I knew where zero was but I didn't know which way to turn it to get back.When I sighted on the pole it told me which way to go and I did it. But that's the only time. I don't shoot over 400, maybe 500 yads in a pinch so I don't need to twist knobs. If you do and the Leupold doesn't do it for you by all means buy what you want. Leupold is what I want.
One thing I noticed right away, was that the OP (goldendomer04) didn't immediately call qwk out...he simply asked for advice on a sale gone sour. Call out threads almost NEVER turn out good for the OP. goldendomer04 handled that one appropriately, IMO.
Advice on doing the right thing? Come on. After he fuggin lied, he tried to save face by playing stupid. There was even one other guy on that thread that posted he got fugged by him. There ain’t one person that isn’t happy about what I sold them on any forum.
On a different note, sure is funny the butt hurt around here, when something works for someone, that doesn’t for others. That’s all for now, I need to go trespass!!! 😂😂🖕🏿🥰😍💋
On a different note, sure is funny the butt hurt around here, when something works for someone, that doesn’t for others. That’s all for now, I need to go trespass!!! 😂😂🖕🏿🥰😍💋
Or post pics of some more dinks... sad
Post em up .. show me what “trophies” are, or you can biitch us to death.. 😂😂
Sorry, I couldn't resist the temptation to poke the idiots. Again, I really like my Leupolds. Still waiting to see all the uuuuuge deer the qwk won't post. Patrick
Sorry, I couldn't resist the temptation to poke the idiots. Again, I really like my Leupolds. Still waiting to see all the uuuuuge deer the qwk won't post. Patrick
She wont, cause she's a worthless liar, no more, no less. I love my Leopold too, been waiting to have a "failure" for 33 years. It appears I need to hunt more!! 😂😂
Commie coast? I live in the mountains of Utah. So was that a yes or a no?
Where are you from? Hint.
I will take that as maybe and that you’re not very bright.
Slammer I apologize if I got your thread off track.
quote=Springcove]As someone who lived there most of my life it was very hard to leave. The state has so many amazing places to hunt, fish, etc. I finally had the opportunity to leave and I took it. I still miss all those places and love to go back and visit. Of course once I'm there and dealing with all the stupidity I realize why I left.
Utah is great!
Bright enough to do a simple search! That quote is from a thread about California. One of his very first posts.
Over the years I've had two pictures of my DIY dead critters show up on outfitter's websites, plus one more taken by an individual on this site and posted as his....always good for a laugh.
I wouldn't be surprised if Qwerk pulls that kind of stunt.....something about a pot and a kettle comes to mind.
Sorry, I couldn't resist the temptation to poke the idiots. Again, I really like my Leupolds. Still waiting to see all the uuuuuge deer the qwk won't post. Patrick
She wont, cause she's a worthless liar, no more, no less. I love my Leopold too, been waiting to have a "failure" for 33 years. It appears I need to hunt more!! 😂😂
WTf have I lied about? I never said I would post pics.
Not to side track the normalcy of a Leupold thread - Just wanted to give a shout out to Leupold for losing my scope I sent in to them a month ago for issues with the poa vs poi I saw on 3 different rifles.
Owned a lot of Leupolds. This is the 3rd scope I’ve had to send in. The other two scopes were replaced with new in lieu of repairing.
I was expecting the same on this one, but, being it’s lost. Who knows how long before I see a new scope.
FYI...Leupold is working from home and repair shop personnel are maintaining 6’ft safe distances from each other. Slowing down the repair work to a crawl, I was told.
😎
Wow. Leupold scopes lose their zeros.. And... Leupold loses the whole scope..
The losses attributable to Leupold are mounting fast.
He did state he was more of a shooter than a hunter....but I like the google fu accusations of Jud's pictures
Who takes pics of a legit buck like that? Especially when pics of his fat ass is are plastered all over the web already. Shiiit don’t pass the sniff test, when you factor in all his other pics are dinks.
I have three VX-5HD 3-15x44 scopes and use the turrets on all and they are working fine for me. The only issue I have is the phony thin wide duplex reticle. Settled in on my loads and will get the CDS dials ordered this spring.
When time to get the shot off means success or failure simplified dialing is superior to a written dope chart/ generic turret combination & a calibrated reticle is faster still when pressured speed & adrenaline are involved
It’s faster? Ok, how much faster? I mean to state that would mean you’re equally skilled at both dialing and holding, and you’ve timed it enough to have something resembling data, right?
So say from standing, spotting the animal, ranging, getting into position and hitting a deer sized vitals, how much faster to a hit? Say 90% hits at uneven yardages (278, 367, 422, etc.).
Sighted in at 225 with flat shooting rifle 278 is point & shoot as is 367 hold below spine shoot. So several seconds faster than 100 yard zero & dial. At 422 yards it may only be 3-4 seconds faster depending on skill levels. Grazing deer middle of the meadow no big deal walking elk about to crest the ridge very big deal.
Commie coast? I live in the mountains of Utah. So was that a yes or a no?
Where are you from? Hint.
I will take that as maybe and that you’re not very bright.
Slammer I apologize if I got your thread off track.
quote=Springcove]As someone who lived there most of my life it was very hard to leave. The state has so many amazing places to hunt, fish, etc. I finally had the opportunity to leave and I took it. I still miss all those places and love to go back and visit. Of course once I'm there and dealing with all the stupidity I realize why I left.
Utah is great!
Bright enough to do a simple search! That quote is from a thread about California. One of his very first posts.
Ok. I “lived” in California past tense. That means I don’t live there anymore. I also “lived” in Northern California not on the coast. The part that wants to become the State of Jefferson. I now live in the mountains of Utah. Thanks for the stalker alert though. That was a bit creepy.
Well on the "bright" side,when you cain't afford a camera,Reupolds work "good". Hint. Congratulations?!?
I do enjoy the CDS Retardation,because you gals are assuredly doing your best. Hint.
Keep in mind,when gunning a Reupold Tall Target Test,to not even LOOK at the windage or you'll throw the piece of fhuqking schit off TWO cliffs. Hint. LAUGHING!
Kudos for the HILARITY of "all" of those "years" of "use" and "rounds" "fired",less issue. Hint. LAUGHING!!!
Just great, who left the door open to the "Hunting rifles" forum? Now the retard is spreading fertilizer here also. Only upside is the grass could use some nutrients.
When time to get the shot off means success or failure simplified dialing is superior to a written dope chart/ generic turret combination & a calibrated reticle is faster still when pressured speed & adrenaline are involved
It’s faster? Ok, how much faster? I mean to state that would mean you’re equally skilled at both dialing and holding, and you’ve timed it enough to have something resembling data, right?
So say from standing, spotting the animal, ranging, getting into position and hitting a deer sized vitals, how much faster to a hit? Say 90% hits at uneven yardages (278, 367, 422, etc.).
Sighted in at 225 with flat shooting rifle 278 is point & shoot as is 367 hold below spine shoot. So several seconds faster than 100 yard zero & dial. At 422 yards it may only be 3-4 seconds faster depending on skill levels. Grazing deer middle of the meadow no big deal walking elk about to crest the ridge very big deal.
You need to assume the same zero for both methods for it to be a valid comparison.
It speaks volumes to your psyche that you immediately think this post was about you.... But since you went there:
Facts and physics, really? I guess I need to take that double engineering degree off the wall then. Nevermind that I use it every day. Let me know when you master GD&T, FEA, and software programming. All of which were used to create the things you like to pontificate about. At best you MAY know what, but no clue as to WHY. There is a big difference....
Given the consistent use of lack of thought and insight into any given topic being discussed, along with a totally illogical use of the English language I am becoming convinced that this is a computer bot sending canned responses. My posts are only to ferret this out at this point....
Ok. I “lived” in California past tense. That means I don’t live there anymore. I also “lived” in Northern California not on the coast. The part that wants to become the State of Jefferson. I now live in the mountains of Utah. Thanks for the stalker alert though. That was a bit creepy.
Oh so you are just a little bit commie, not full? I thought all commies were equal? Lol The point is you are a fuggin lyin pos. Scanning a few posts is now stalking? You lying snowflakes are pathetic.
It's impossible to make sense,to those who have NONE. Hint.(grin)
I reckon it more than a touch handy,to simply drive the windshield for many things,because a guy is gonna look through the fhuqking thing anyhow. One of many reasons why FFP and an erector that talks to the reticle,conspire to formulate soooooo many "unfair" advantages. Also why BDC/CDS turrets suck so much ass and why BDC reticles follow suit. There's much to be said for lineal graduated scales,that correlate erector adjustment. While NOTHING could be more simplistic,for folks who actually shoot,Retards are forever in a hurry to overlook the glaring obvious and default to Licking Windows...as these Threads soooooo eloquently attest. Funny schit and I mean fhuqking FUNNY! Hint. Laughing!
Joe Average sure in the fhuqk ain't very bright,but Lemmings drive the market and that's why Schit Riggin' abounds. Retards can "justify" everything and simply haven't seen what wares that actuate/operate in accordance,will reliably do. BSA sells alotta scopes and so does Reupold. LAUGHING!
A Guess,predicated by a Guess,to arrange a Guess,is a fhuqking HILARIOUS way to conduct business! Doubly fhuqking funny,when your schit is so fhuqking bad,you "think" it is "good". Reupold for Rife! Hint. Raughing!
I enjoy the "set and forget" Mantra,because it's used as a salve to smooth over STUPIDITY and as a base ingredient for a schit recipe. Glass that won't/don't/can't track and repeat,will NOT hold zero either. That despite the ploy being a popular excuse,which only adds to the fhuqking humor. Couple same with a "Magical" CDS turret and everything gets "better". Add SFP to the equation,frost it nicely with an erector and reticle of different languages and then rave about how "GREAT" it is. Hint. LAUGHING!!!
Bless their hearts for trying.
Hint.
LAUGHING!...............
Kchuntis,
There was/is NO need for you to "justify",how very WELL founded your countless Insecurities are...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?
I'll feign my GREAT "surprise" that your Vagina Monologue skirted all things The Rifle and The Outdoors,but your Couchbound Kchuntly "exploits" are "riveting" Testimony to your "prowess". Give or fhuqking take. Hint. LAUGHING!!!
Very GOOD call to shut the fhuqk up. Hint.
Bless your heart,for doing your best with what INCREDIBLY little you "have" to "work" with.
Sighted in at 225 with flat shooting rifle 278 is point & shoot as is 367 hold below spine shoot. So several seconds faster than 100 yard zero & dial. At 422 yards it may only be 3-4 seconds faster depending on skill levels.
Ok. I “lived” in California past tense. That means I don’t live there anymore. I also “lived” in Northern California not on the coast. The part that wants to become the State of Jefferson. I now live in the mountains of Utah. Thanks for the stalker alert though. That was a bit creepy.
Oh so you are just a little bit commie, not full? I thought all commies were equal? Lol The point is you are a fuggin lyin pos. Scanning a few posts is now stalking? You lying snowflakes are pathetic.
If you’re to dumb to understand past and present tense I can’t help you. Do carry on though you are somewhat entertaining.
When time to get the shot off means success or failure simplified dialing is superior to a written dope chart/ generic turret combination & a calibrated reticle is faster still when pressured speed & adrenaline are involved
It’s faster? Ok, how much faster? I mean to state that would mean you’re equally skilled at both dialing and holding, and you’ve timed it enough to have something resembling data, right?
So say from standing, spotting the animal, ranging, getting into position and hitting a deer sized vitals, how much faster to a hit? Say 90% hits at uneven yardages (278, 367, 422, etc.).
Sighted in at 225 with flat shooting rifle 278 is point & shoot as is 367 hold below spine shoot. So several seconds faster than 100 yard zero & dial. At 422 yards it may only be 3-4 seconds faster depending on skill levels. Grazing deer middle of the meadow no big deal walking elk about to crest the ridge very big deal.
You need to assume the same zero for both methods for it to be a valid comparison.
You have a good point that it isn’t exactly apples to apples. More experienced (old) method hunting open country was a 200 yard zero with a 7mm or 300 to extend point blank range and make shots simpler for the hunter point & shoot for 300 + yards. I use 225 because that is as long as I have to place a target at my range at home & the math works fine for my calibers & reticles.
New method hunters (younger more technology) tend to zero their Creedmoor’s & 308’s at 100 yards & dial after checking with their Kestrels. Sorry if I’m relying on too many stereotypes.
If you’re to dumb to understand past and present tense I can’t help you. Do carry on though you are somewhat entertaining.
Understand that you left the Great part of that state to go to another one? The point is, there is a reason other states are turning blue, all the while every fleeing rat claiming to be conservative. Lying pos.
If you’re to dumb to understand past and present tense I can’t help you. Do carry on though you are somewhat entertaining.
Understand that you left the Great part of that state to go to another one? The point is, there is a reason other states are turning blue, all the while every fleeing rat claiming to be conservative. Lying pos.
You seem to have some personal issues you might want to deal with...
I haven’t measured the times - might be interesting to do. But I think you could validate the assumption with PRS shooters who use the reticle whenever they can to save time on targets. Critical for them but less critical than elk steaks or tag soup.
I haven’t measured the times - might be interesting to do. But I think you could validate the assumption with PRS shooters who use the reticle whenever they can to save time on targets. Critical for them but less critical than elk steaks or tag soup.
I can assure you that when you practice like inevitably you should for competition, this is a non issue.
Coming up with just one pro for the CDS is difficult. All I can think of are cons. Unless you already have a scope, it would be hard to justify such a clusterfack.
It’s like trying to think of one good reason that dog [bleep] tastes better than steak. There isn’t one. Although someone here will probably try to argue otherwise.
Coming up with just one pro for the CDS is difficult. All I can think of are cons. Unless you already have a scope, it would be hard to justify such a clusterfack.
It’s like trying to think of one good reason that dog [bleep] tastes better than steak. There isn’t one. Although someone here will probably try to argue otherwise.
An even more perplexing question is.......why are you even here? You offer nothing.
I haven’t measured the times - might be interesting to do. But I think you could validate the assumption with PRS shooters who use the reticle whenever they can to save time on targets. Critical for them but less critical than elk steaks or tag soup.
Dialing elevation and holding for wind is what PRS shooters do. Save for rare exceptions, the only time people that are winning are not dialing elevation is if a stage artificially limits them to using the reticle.
The below is not a guess. It’s from data gathered from tens of thousands of shots from 100-600 meters that start with unknown ranges, by more than a hundred shooters ranging from beginners with three days of training all the way to national level competitors. Dialing elevation and holding wind is almost always faster to hit on realistic 10”-12” targets. The less skilled, the greater the disparity between holding and dialing in timed evaluations. For individuals who are well trained (those who compete regularly and do well) out to around 300 meters holding elevation is generally a bit faster to hit as long as the the wind hold is inside the target. If wind is greater than target width (1’ish mil at 300) than it is faster to hit by dialing elevation and holding wind. The farther the target is, the smaller it is, the more wind drift there is, the more stressed the shooter is, the more out of breath the shooter is, and the less stable the position is- all greatly increase the disparity between dialing elevation/holding wind, and holding both elevation and wind. For instance, for a single distance of 300m, standing to prone to hit a 12” plate with one round. Holding elevation averages nearly four seconds slower to hit than dialing for more than 90% of shooters. The very best shooters average around one second faster holding rather than dialing. Now this is prone on a known range with no wind. Change any on of those, and everyone is faster dialing elevation.
The above is stated with users that have been taught how to optimally use each technique, and who are equally skilled at both. If someone turns a turret like they’re looking at an abacus, well... they’re slow with every technique.
I find using holdover - even with a good windshield like the SS takes longer for me. I'm looking AT the glass, counting mil marks and double checking etc instead of dialing, looking THRU the glass and simply slapping the big intersection in the middle of where I want to go and hitting the trigger.
I find using holdover - even with a good windshield like the SS takes longer for me. I'm looking AT the glass, counting mil marks and double checking etc instead of dialing, looking THRU the glass and simply slapping the big intersection in the middle of where I want to go and hitting the trigger.
Those were my thoughts too.
I guess with more practice my confidence concerning which mil mark is which would increase (without counting them each time), but I'd rather spend that time looking for critters instead of at a target. To add to the confusion, even when I count mil marks and find the one I need, when I try to concentrate getting that mil mark on the animal I often loose track of which mark it is/was, and have to count them again. By then the critter shifts position or mingles with others in the herd, and I am back to step 1. Simply dialing the turret and using the reticle like normal simply is faster for me, at my skill level.
I haven’t measured the times - might be interesting to do. But I think you could validate the assumption with PRS shooters who use the reticle whenever they can to save time on targets. Critical for them but less critical than elk steaks or tag soup.
Dialing elevation and holding for wind is what PRS shooters do. Save for rare exceptions, the only time people that are winning are not dialing elevation is if a stage artificially limits them to using the reticle.
The below is not a guess. It’s from data gathered from tens of thousands of shots from 100-600 meters that start with unknown ranges, by more than a hundred shooters ranging from beginners with three days of training all the way to national level competitors. Dialing elevation and holding wind is almost always faster to hit on realistic 10”-12” targets. The less skilled, the greater the disparity between holding and dialing in timed evaluations. For individuals who are well trained (those who compete regularly and do well) out to around 300 meters holding elevation is generally a bit faster to hit as long as the the wind hold is inside the target. If wind is greater than target width (1’ish mil at 300) than it is faster to hit by dialing elevation and holding wind. The farther the target is, the smaller it is, the more wind drift there is, the more stressed the shooter is, the more out of breath the shooter is, and the less stable the position is- all greatly increase the disparity between dialing elevation/holding wind, and holding both elevation and wind. For instance, for a single distance of 300m, standing to prone to hit a 12” plate with one round. Holding elevation averages nearly four seconds slower to hit than dialing for more than 90% of shooters. The very best shooters average around one second faster holding rather than dialing. Now this is prone on a known range with no wind. Change any on of those, and everyone is faster dialing elevation.
The above is stated with users that have been taught how to optimally use each technique, and who are equally skilled at both. If someone turns a turret like they’re looking at an abacus, well... they’re slow with every technique.
This.
I will add that IME shooting PRS-style comps there are two scenarios where I'll hold elevation instead of dialing. The first is when the stage specifically requires holds and no dialing. The second is if I have to engage multiple targets with one shot each, where each target is at a different distance and there is a large margin for elevation error (shooting IPSC targets, for example). In that case I'm slightly faster at completing the stage when holding compared to dialing elevation, and even then I'll often dial in some elevation just to get my holds near an even hash mark, if necessary. Other than these very specific cases, dial elevation and hold wind.
I don’t disagree that dialing is more precise in every case.
My application is hunting in fairly open territory. I know my rifle & scope, the Z800 matches my trajectory precisely all the way out to 800 yards - verified many times. The only disadvantage to the reticle in this 2nd focal plane scope is that it has to be set at maximum magnification of 15 power. For 400-600 yards the reticle is precise enough for over 90% confidence from a reasonable field rest & limited wind.
For everything under and up to 400 yards elk vitals are a point & shoot past 350 that hold is just under the spine, guaranteed nothing is faster.
Playing with targets and the Zeiss software & 6-24 V4 on a Bergara Creedmoor it is amazing How close you can dial hits even with different factory ammunition clear out to 1200 yards. But that is target shooting not hunting where anything in the vitals is plenty good.
I find using holdover - even with a good windshield like the SS takes longer for me. I'm looking AT the glass, counting mil marks and double checking etc instead of dialing, looking THRU the glass and simply slapping the big intersection in the middle of where I want to go and hitting the trigger.
Those were my thoughts too.
I guess with more practice my confidence concerning which mil mark is which would increase (without counting them each time), but I'd rather spend that time looking for critters instead of at a target. To add to the confusion, even when I count mil marks and find the one I need, when I try to concentrate getting that mil mark on the animal I often loose track of which mark it is/was, and have to count them again. By then the critter shifts position or mingles with others in the herd, and I am back to step 1. Simply dialing the turret and using the reticle like normal simply is faster for me, at my skill level.
Killer post, Form. Funny how people think shooting three or four critters a year makes them know something about shooting.
Even funnier when the shooters think they know something about huntin.
Why does a guy have to be one or the other? Some of us are both.
Usually a guy starts out hunting, then some enabling bastard gets him reloading. Next thing you know he really looks forward to load development and the pre-season sight in etc.
Now he shoots year round to ensure success on the hunt - given the opportunity.
Killer post, Form. Funny how people think shooting three or four critters a year makes them know something about shooting.
Even funnier when the shooters think they know something about huntin.
Why does a guy have to be one or the other? Some of us are both.
Usually a guy starts out hunting, then some enabling bastard gets him reloading. Next thing you know he really looks forward to load development and the pre-season sight in etc.
Now he shoots year round to ensure success on the hunt - given the opportunity.
Sounds about right. Then all of a sudden he realizes that he lives to hunt and shoot; hunting season in a bit of the spring and the fall, and steel/comp season the rest of the year.
Killer post, Form. Funny how people think shooting three or four critters a year makes them know something about shooting.
Even funnier when the shooters think they know something about huntin.
Why does a guy have to be one or the other? Some of us are both.
I didn't read Jud's post as that a guy couldn't be both...
There's nothing wrong with preferring one sport over the other, or liking both equally. Not a damn thing wrong with any of it as long as Leupolds aren't used. Then you're just wrong.
Nobody take that seriously, please. Half my rifles have Leupolds on them.
Killer post, Form. Funny how people think shooting three or four critters a year makes them know something about shooting.
Even funnier when the shooters think they know something about huntin.
Why does a guy have to be one or the other? Some of us are both.
I didn't read Jud's post as that a guy couldn't be both...
There's nothing wrong with preferring one sport over the other, or liking both equally. Not a damn thing wrong with any of it as long as Leupolds aren't used. Then you're just wrong.
Nobody take that seriously, please. Half my rifles have Leupolds on them.
LOL
To be clear, I wasn't trying to take a jab at Jud specifically, I was just laughing at the salty comments about hunters that never shoot and shooters that never hunt. There's a large segment of 'Fire members that is pretty passionate about both.
Killer post, Form. Funny how people think shooting three or four critters a year makes them know something about shooting.
Even funnier when the shooters think they know something about huntin.
Why does a guy have to be one or the other? Some of us are both.
I didn't read Jud's post as that a guy couldn't be both...
There's nothing wrong with preferring one sport over the other, or liking both equally. Not a damn thing wrong with any of it as long as Leupolds aren't used. Then you're just wrong.
Nobody take that seriously, please. Half my rifles have Leupolds on them.
LOL
To be clear, I wasn't trying to take a jab at Jud specifically, I was just laughing at the salty comments about hunters that never shoot and shooters that never hunt. There's a large segment of 'Fire members that is pretty passionate about both.
I know you weren't. It's all good, and nice to have a civilized conversation in the optics forum for once, even if for just a small portion of a thread.....
You're not kidding anybody. You love your neighbours to the north!
I do man, pard east of ya just texted this morning, his silver lab bitch just got bred, givin me pick of the litter, looks like I’ll be makin a extra trip up this year if they open the border
I have certainly done the Leupold shuffle a few times while sighting in, but I really want to see a great American company succeed. I have a couple of VX-5HDs waiting to be put to use. Have gotten as far as sighting in one of them, which was accomplished after bore sighting (the old fashioned eyeball method) in two shots. This is a video that Leupold just put out, and I found it interesting. https://www.leupold.com/leupold-core/stories/american-manufacturing-heritage
I've only broken (1) MK4 fixed reticle,they ain't etched. Had 3.5-10x M3 not track. My Gen2 FFP Spotter Puked. Hint. Congratulations?!?
The MK4 16x's don't get shot much. The MK4 M3's 3.5-10x's are all gone(I think),excepting a 6x. The Spotter hasn't RE-Puked,but the $400 Bushy FFP crushes it. Hint.
Have had rather good luck with MK4 M1 10x's though. Have had purty good luck with MK4 M1 3.5-10x's.
Da' Bushy's FFP Mil Reticle,absolutely fhuqking THRASHES the Reupold Gen 2,though I can "only" get 2000yds+++ out the front door. I tripped my 65mm Zeiss Spotter,just to gain the G2 reticle. Hint.
Closing distance on Woofs. I had a new rifle(wearing Reupold) and pard had 10x MQ with 130 JLK's and good DOPE.
Got too many fhuqking pictures and cain't locate the Bushy FFP Spotter images.
Just do it.
Hint.(grin)
Now as to the Reupold video,I'm fhuqking CRYIN'...LAUGHING soooooooooo fhuqking hard!!!
"Bullet hit objective and went into turret and worked fine".
Nary a word on Mechanics,then a 4.5-14x STOLE the "show" optically! HILARIOUS!!!
Regarding the op question of tracking in the vx5 hd, there is another thread on this forum about the military using them for sniper issue. Would they do so if they didn't track well?
Seems I've heard of guys buying their own equipment because they didn't find Uncle Sam's provision satisfactory.......who knows
Regarding the op question of tracking in the vx5 hd, there is another thread on this forum about the military using them for sniper issue. Would they do so if they didn't track well?
Seems I've heard of guys buying their own equipment because they didn't find Uncle Sam's provision satisfactory.......who knows
There's a saying "military grade sounds impressive until you've been in the military"
Not saying anything specific about these wares in particular but something being "what the military uses" isn't a reason for me to make a choice to use it in and of itself.
Those Mark 5 scopes are higher end. I don't know if they're really any good.
Not really higher end as all MK 5s suffer FFP reticles and are heavier than the equivalent VX 5.
SFP MK 5 are on the way but still bring weight for no gain.
I am willing to pay a bit more to the added zoom range of the VX6 but the reality is that Leupold's VX5 line up is the best value for dollar in high quality optics.
Personally I don't see how FFP is a disadvantage, though I use mainly fixed power scopes these days.
It's not a disadvantage at all. Except the reticle is pretty small on lower powers. My SS 3x15 for examp!e. On 3x the reticle is pretty thin. The thing is I NEVER use it on 3x. It stays on 6 x and I go to 12x for long shots over 600 yds. If I needed a lower power scope, I would go buy a fixed 4x and roll with it. A ff p reticle for moderate hunting ranges checks A lot of boxes. Reticle works on all powers, as does twisting the turrets at all powers. That's not the case with a sfp scopes.
On 3x the reticle is pretty thin. The thing is I NEVER use it on 3x.
Originally Posted by atse
Originally Posted by T_Inman
Personally I don't see how FFP is a disadvantage, though I use mainly fixed power scopes these days.
It's not a disadvantage at all. Except the reticle is pretty small on lower powers. My SS 3x15 for examp!e. On 3x the reticle is pretty thin. The thing is I NEVER use it on 3x. It stays on 6 x and I go to 12x for long shots over 600 yds. If I needed a lower power scope, I would go buy a fixed 4x and roll with it. A ff p reticle for moderate hunting ranges checks A lot of boxes. Reticle works on all powers, as does twisting the turrets at all powers. That's not the case with a sfp scopes.
And there you have it.
"On 3x the reticle is pretty thin. The thing is I NEVER use it on 3x."
The FFP is [bleep] at the top and bottom of a 5X zoom optic.
Good shooters want to be able to use the entire zoom range for maximum performance.
Low power in close fast situations and in low light.
On 3x the reticle is pretty thin. The thing is I NEVER use it on 3x.
Originally Posted by atse
Originally Posted by T_Inman
Personally I don't see how FFP is a disadvantage, though I use mainly fixed power scopes these days.
It's not a disadvantage at all. Except the reticle is pretty small on lower powers. My SS 3x15 for examp!e. On 3x the reticle is pretty thin. The thing is I NEVER use it on 3x. It stays on 6 x and I go to 12x for long shots over 600 yds. If I needed a lower power scope, I would go buy a fixed 4x and roll with it. A ff p reticle for moderate hunting ranges checks A lot of boxes. Reticle works on all powers, as does twisting the turrets at all powers. That's not the case with a sfp scopes.
And there you have it.
"On 3x the reticle is pretty thin. The thing is I NEVER use it on 3x."
The FFP is [bleep] at the top and bottom of a 5X zoom optic.
Good shooters want to be able to use the entire zoom range for maximum performance.
Low power in close fast situations and in low light.
High power for LR shots.
FFP sucks in hunting optics.
Ya, being able to dial my sfp scope at only one power instead of at every power is a real plus....
The more I play with shooting at distance in the wind the more I see why competition shooters use their reticle for windage instead of dialing....and while math is math, I am not good enough to crunch all those numbers with a SFP scope, especially in a hunting situation. I prefer the sub tensions to be identical throughout the magnification range. I am also learning more and more about ranging critters via the reticle sub tensions, in which it is also nice to have zero variance. I guess if a guy has a calculator or an app on his phone handy, plus time to punch in all the numbers then SFP would be fine. I'm just too simple minded.
I am pretty much totally converted over to 6x42s now though, both leupold and SWFA so that magnification variance is a non-issue for me. One of these days's I'll force my tight ass to pick up a S&B PMII in FFP.
The more I play with shooting at distance in the wind the more I see why competition shooters use their reticle for windage instead of dialing....and while math is math, I am not good enough to crunch all those numbers with a SFP scope, especially in a hunting situation. I prefer the sub tensions to be identical throughout the magnification range. I am also learning more and more about ranging critters via the reticle sub tensions, in which it is also nice to have zero variance. I guess if a guy has a calculator or an app on his phone handy, plus time to punch in all the numbers then SFP would be fine. I'm just too simple minded.
I am pretty much totally converted over to 6x42s now though, both leupold and SWFA so that magnification variance is a non-issue for me. One of these days's I'll force my tight ass to pick up a S&B PMII in FFP.
Don't try and crunch #s.
If you are holding wind then ensure you dial the zoom ring to max.
It's a very simple thing to do.
The bonus is a usable reticle at low power and in low light.
I am old enough to remember your old user name and how you used to be proud of posting from WY.
The more I play with shooting at distance in the wind the more I see why competition shooters use their reticle for windage instead of dialing....and while math is math, I am not good enough to crunch all those numbers with a SFP scope, especially in a hunting situation. I prefer the sub tensions to be identical throughout the magnification range. I am also learning more and more about ranging critters via the reticle sub tensions, in which it is also nice to have zero variance. I guess if a guy has a calculator or an app on his phone handy, plus time to punch in all the numbers then SFP would be fine. I'm just too simple minded.
I am pretty much totally converted over to 6x42s now though, both leupold and SWFA so that magnification variance is a non-issue for me. One of these days's I'll force my tight ass to pick up a S&B PMII in FFP.
Don't try and crunch #s.
If you are holding wind then ensure you dial the zoom ring to max.
It's a very simple thing to do.
The bonus is a usable reticle at low power and in low light.
I am old enough to remember your old user name and how you used to be proud of posting from WY.
Ha! I don't remember why I took down my location indicator. Bored one day I guess?
I always had so much perceived shake at higher powers that I developed a mental block with shooting above 10X-12X or so. I really should try playing with that factor again to get my confidence with it back up.
The more I play with shooting at distance in the wind the more I see why competition shooters use their reticle for windage instead of dialing....and while math is math, I am not good enough to crunch all those numbers with a SFP scope, especially in a hunting situation. I prefer the sub tensions to be identical throughout the magnification range. I am also learning more and more about ranging critters via the reticle sub tensions, in which it is also nice to have zero variance. I guess if a guy has a calculator or an app on his phone handy, plus time to punch in all the numbers then SFP would be fine. I'm just too simple minded.
I am pretty much totally converted over to 6x42s now though, both leupold and SWFA so that magnification variance is a non-issue for me. One of these days's I'll force my tight ass to pick up a S&B PMII in FFP.
Don't try and crunch #s.
If you are holding wind then ensure you dial the zoom ring to max.
It's a very simple thing to do.
The bonus is a usable reticle at low power and in low light.
I am old enough to remember your old user name and how you used to be proud of posting from WY.
Ha! I don't remember why I took down my location indicator. Bored one day I guess?
I always had so much perceived shake at higher powers that I developed a mental block with shooting above 10X-12X or so. I really should try playing with that factor again to get my confidence with it back up.
LOL.
It ain't like you struggle to fill the freezer or put a very nice rack on the wall from time to time.
Serious question, what is the downside to being able to dial and then hold wind at any power?
Seems a high powered SFP could be a handicap?
It's a good question.
In a way you really nailed the argument.
SFP is the choice when max magnification is always an option under hunting situations.
Basically under 20X.
When the optic has more magnification than can be used under most situations the FFP reticle becomes the proper choice but comes with the handicap of being significantly degraded at the low end of the zoom range.
This is the Precision Rifle comp situation. Nobody ever shoots on the bottom end of the zoom range.
For hunting optics 15- 18Xs is all one can use all the times so capping the top end of the zoom there and using SFP allows functional reticles at low light and low magnification.
I guess I’m still cuuntfused why folks care what others run??? It’s like the hater group strenuously what’s the guys that have success with a certain brand, to stop using it??... it’s actually very weird. It didn’t work for me, so it’s not gonna work for you... eventually... haha
Weird stuff.. what kinda trucks you fuuckers drive? What kinda silverware you eat off?? Pans??? What kinda pan you sumbitches cook on??? Haha just weird
Ya, being able to dial my sfp scope at only one power instead of at every power is a real plus....
I read it again like a bunch of times and it still is just a retarded as the first time.
Will enlightenment come at the 1000th level?
10,000?
It seems exhausting to keep reading dipschit posts.
Just Sayin.
Sarcasm on the second comment is indeed hard for slower people to get., but I guess that is to be expected. I like my scopes, to work the same on all settings, be it 6, 10, 12, or 15, not just at the highest power seting. You basically made my point in your comment to SLM above.
Ya, being able to dial my sfp scope at only one power instead of at every power is a real plus....
I read it again like a bunch of times and it still is just a retarded as the first time.
Will enlightenment come at the 1000th level?
10,000?
It seems exhausting to keep reading dipschit posts.
Just Sayin. [/quote] Sarcasm on the second comment is indeed hard for slower people to get., but I guess that is to be expected. I like my scopes, to work the same on all settings, be it 6, 10, 12, or 15, not just at the highest power seting. You basically made my point in your comment to SLM above.[/quote]
Pro Tip:
When you dial for elevation it does not matter retard.
Ya, being able to dial my sfp scope at only one power instead of at every power is a real plus....
I read it again like a bunch of times and it still is just a retarded as the first time.
Will enlightenment come at the 1000th level?
10,000?
It seems exhausting to keep reading dipschit posts.
Just Sayin.
Sarcasm on the second comment is indeed hard for slower people to get., but I guess that is to be expected. I like my scopes, to work the same on all settings, be it 6, 10, 12, or 15, not just at the highest power seting. You basically made my point in your comment to SLM above.[/quote]
Pro Tip:
When you dial for elevation it does not matter retard.[/quote] John,You are wrong. A sfp scope will have A different poi at different powers when you dial. Same with wind. Come on! You know that. That is the reason people shooting distance shoot ffp scopes. I don't care what you like, or what you shoot, but you can't change facts just because you don't like ffp scopes.
Ya, being able to dial my sfp scope at only one power instead of at every power is a real plus....
I read it again like a bunch of times and it still is just a retarded as the first time.
Will enlightenment come at the 1000th level?
10,000?
It seems exhausting to keep reading dipschit posts.
Just Sayin.
Sarcasm on the second comment is indeed hard for slower people to get., but I guess that is to be expected. I like my scopes, to work the same on all settings, be it 6, 10, 12, or 15, not just at the highest power seting. You basically made my point in your comment to SLM above.
Pro Tip:
When you dial for elevation it does not matter retard.[/quote] John,You are wrong. A sfp scope will have A different poi at different powers when you dial. Same with wind. Come on! You know that. That is the reason people shooting distance shoot ffp scopes. I don't care what you like, or what you shoot, but you can't change facts just because you don't like ffp scopes.[/quote]
Over the years I've had two pictures of my DIY dead critters show up on outfitter's websites, plus one more taken by an individual on this site and posted as his....always good for a laugh.
I wouldn't be surprised if Qwerk pulls that kind of stunt.....something about a pot and a kettle comes to mind.
Ted, I just read this....Who swiped your horns? That’s absolutely ridiculous!
If you don’t want to say, that’s cool. Maybe post the old thread.
I’m just SMH thinking what kind of ass-tool a guy has to be, to claim someone else’s bone as his....L-O-S-E-R
Atse, qwk, elkslayer91 are probably 3 of the dumbest fuucks ever... just unbelievable. Hopefully we don’t hunt the same ground.. oh wait, qwk says I’m a trespassing sumbitch!!!! Where’s my side dikes??? Haha
Over the years I've had two pictures of my DIY dead critters show up on outfitter's websites, plus one more taken by an individual on this site and posted as his....always good for a laugh.
I wouldn't be surprised if Qwerk pulls that kind of stunt.....something about a pot and a kettle comes to mind.
Ted, I just read this....Who swiped your horns? That’s absolutely ridiculous!
If you don’t want to say, that’s cool. Maybe post the old thread.
I’m just SMH thinking what kind of ass-tool a guy has to be, to claim someone else’s bone as his....L-O-S-E-R
Over the years I've had two pictures of my DIY dead critters show up on outfitter's websites, plus one more taken by an individual on this site and posted as his....always good for a laugh.
I wouldn't be surprised if Qwerk pulls that kind of stunt.....something about a pot and a kettle comes to mind.
Ted, I just read this....Who swiped your horns? That’s absolutely ridiculous!
If you don’t want to say, that’s cool. Maybe post the old thread.
I’m just SMH thinking what kind of ass-tool a guy has to be, to claim someone else’s bone as his....L-O-S-E-R
🤦🏻♂️🤷🏽♀️😎
PM sent.
That’s the ugly black eye of “guiding “ mark, fuuckers lie like a sumbitch
Ya I like John burns actually, he’s one guy I’d like to bullshiit someday
He can come off as an ass, but when conversing with him like SLM and I did above, his responses are perfectly courteous. I've never had an issue at least.
John,You are wrong. A sfp scope will have A different poi at different powers when you dial. Same with wind. Come on! You know that. That is the reason people shooting distance shoot ffp scopes. I don't care what you like, or what you shoot, but you can't change facts just because you don't like ffp scopes.
Care to keep guessing again?
John,
I think he's talking about dialing the magnification ring, not the ele. turret.
John,You are wrong. A sfp scope will have A different poi at different powers when you dial. Same with wind. Come on! You know that. That is the reason people shooting distance shoot ffp scopes. I don't care what you like, or what you shoot, but you can't change facts just because you don't like ffp scopes.
Care to keep guessing again?
John,
I think he's talking about dialing the magnification ring, not the ele. turret.
John,You are wrong. A sfp scope will have A different poi at different powers when you dial. Same with wind. Come on! You know that. That is the reason people shooting distance shoot ffp scopes. I don't care what you like, or what you shoot, but you can't change facts just because you don't like ffp scopes.
Care to keep guessing again?
John,
I think he's talking about dialing the magnification ring, not the ele. turret.
Originally Posted by atse
Ya, being able to dial my sfp scope at only one power instead of at every power is a real plus....
I'll add leading trotters to the "hold for wind" equation.
Multiple targets at varying distances from 50 out to 350-400 or so, my hand tends to go towards the mag ring, rather than towards a turret.
I tend to balance FOV vs ease of viewing mil dot spacing.
Even so, my current .308 load allows holding via mildots to 700ish with the humble Gen-1 mil reticle it sports.
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
"engage multiple targets with one shot each, where each target is at a different distance and there is a large margin for elevation error."......... "and even then I'll often dial in some elevation just to get my holds near an even hash mark, if necessary." .... "Other than these very specific cases, dial elevation and hold wind."....
John,You are wrong. A sfp scope will have A different poi at different powers when you dial. Same with wind. Come on! You know that. That is the reason people shooting distance shoot ffp scopes. I don't care what you like, or what you shoot, but you can't change facts just because you don't like ffp scopes.
Care to keep guessing again?
John,
I think he's talking about dialing the magnification ring, not the ele. turret.
Originally Posted by atse
Ya, being able to dial my sfp scope at only one power instead of at every power is a real plus....
John,You are wrong. A sfp scope will have A different poi at different powers when you dial. Same with wind. Come on! You know that. That is the reason people shooting distance shoot ffp scopes. I don't care what you like, or what you shoot, but you can't change facts just because you don't like ffp scopes.
Care to keep guessing again?
John,
I think he's talking about dialing the magnification ring, not the ele. turret.
Originally Posted by atse
Ya, being able to dial my sfp scope at only one power instead of at every power is a real plus....
Are you sure about that, Jordan?
The ability to dial has zero bearing on SFP or FFP. He is talking BS
The last thing I want to do is go pound some posts in for a new hitching rail in my corrals, so here I sit drinking coffee and scratching my head trying to decipher atse's "dialing" point. I most certainly did NOT read his post in that he was talking about "dialing" the magnification ring.
The last thing I want to do is go pound some posts in for a new hitching rail in my corrals, so here I sit drinking coffee and scratching my head trying to decipher atse's "dialing" point. I most certainly did NOT read his post in that he was talking about "dialing" the magnification ring.
I will try to clarify a couple points. My comment on dialing a sfp scope was a sarcastic remark in regards to one of John's earlier posts. It was not meant literally. Second, I used a poor choice when I said dialing magnification. Should have said changing magnification and dialing elevation. I simply meant through all of this that a ffp scope can have its magnification turned to any power and elevation dialed and shots on target will be the same. With a sfp scope, this is not the case. Sorry for the poor word choice. Hope that helps.
I simply meant through all of this that a ffp scope can have its magnification turned to any power and elevation dialed and shots on target will be the same. With a sfp scope, this is not the case. Sorry for the poor word choice. Hope that helps.
The last thing I want to do is go pound some posts in for a new hitching rail in my corrals, so here I sit drinking coffee and scratching my head trying to decipher atse's "dialing" point. I most certainly did NOT read his post in that he was talking about "dialing" the magnification ring.
I will try to clarify a couple points. My comment on dialing a sfp scope was a sarcastic remark in regards to one of John's earlier posts. It was not meant literally. Second, I used a poor choice when I said dialing magnification. Should have said changing magnification and dialing elevation. I simply meant through all of this that a ffp scope can have its magnification turned to any power and elevation dialed and shots on target will be the same. With a sfp scope, this is not the case. Sorry for the poor word choice. Hope that helps.
While I appreciate the clarification, I must say that this is still a head scratcher. Are you saying that with a SFP scope, as you turn magnification up or down, that the elevation erector changes values with each click? So at X magnification each click would be 1/4 MOA, but at Y magnification each click would be 1 MOA and so on? Both FFP and SFP "should" have the same erector correctional values per click of the turret, regardless of what magnification it is set at.
By "dialing elevation", you're not talking about the reticle sub tensions changing in relation to the magnification setting, right?
One hopes atse was referring to SFP reticle sub tension ranging values changing with magnification, rather than turret clicks on either type of focal plane.
I often, as well, have a hard time translating thoughts/doings into written words.
The last thing I want to do is go pound some posts in for a new hitching rail in my corrals, so here I sit drinking coffee and scratching my head trying to decipher atse's "dialing" point. I most certainly did NOT read his post in that he was talking about "dialing" the magnification ring.
I will try to clarify a couple points. My comment on dialing a sfp scope was a sarcastic remark in regards to one of John's earlier posts. It was not meant literally. Second, I used a poor choice when I said dialing magnification. Should have said changing magnification and dialing elevation. I simply meant through all of this that a ffp scope can have its magnification turned to any power and elevation dialed and shots on target will be the same. With a sfp scope, this is not the case. Sorry for the poor word choice. Hope that helps.
While I appreciate the clarification, I must say that this is still a head scratcher. Are you saying that with a SFP scope, as you turn magnification up or down, that the elevation erector changes values with each click? So at X magnification each click would be 1/4 MOA, but at Y magnification each click would be 1 MOA and so on? Both FFP and SFP "should" have the same erector correctional values per click of the turret, regardless of what magnification it is set at.
By "dialing elevation", you're not talking about the reticle sub tensions changing in relation to the magnification setting, right?
The last thing I want to do is go pound some posts in for a new hitching rail in my corrals, so here I sit drinking coffee and scratching my head trying to decipher atse's "dialing" point. I most certainly did NOT read his post in that he was talking about "dialing" the magnification ring.
I will try to clarify a couple points. My comment on dialing a sfp scope was a sarcastic remark in regards to one of John's earlier posts. It was not meant literally. Second, I used a poor choice when I said dialing magnification. Should have said changing magnification and dialing elevation. I simply meant through all of this that a ffp scope can have its magnification turned to any power and elevation dialed and shots on target will be the same. With a sfp scope, this is not the case. Sorry for the poor word choice. Hope that helps.
While I appreciate the clarification, I must say that this is still a head scratcher. Are you saying that with a SFP scope, as you turn magnification up or down, that the elevation erector changes values with each click? So at X magnification each click would be 1/4 MOA, but at Y magnification each click would be 1 MOA and so on? Both FFP and SFP "should" have the same erector correctional values per click of the turret, regardless of what magnification it is set at.
By "dialing elevation", you're not talking about the reticle sub tensions changing in relation to the magnification setting, right?
Correct.
For some skill levels the ability to alter reticle subtension at will is a feature, not a bug.
The center is the center, no matter if you are using a SFP or FFP reticle, in terms of magnification or dialing elevation. Assuming a mechanically solid scope.
The last thing I want to do is go pound some posts in for a new hitching rail in my corrals, so here I sit drinking coffee and scratching my head trying to decipher atse's "dialing" point. I most certainly did NOT read his post in that he was talking about "dialing" the magnification ring.
I will try to clarify a couple points. My comment on dialing a sfp scope was a sarcastic remark in regards to one of John's earlier posts. It was not meant literally. Second, I used a poor choice when I said dialing magnification. Should have said changing magnification and dialing elevation. I simply meant through all of this that a ffp scope can have its magnification turned to any power and elevation dialed and shots on target will be the same. With a sfp scope, this is not the case. Sorry for the poor word choice. Hope that helps.
While I appreciate the clarification, I must say that this is still a head scratcher. Are you saying that with a SFP scope, as you turn magnification up or down, that the elevation erector changes values with each click? So at X magnification each click would be 1/4 MOA, but at Y magnification each click would be 1 MOA and so on? Both FFP and SFP "should" have the same erector correctional values per click of the turret, regardless of what magnification it is set at.
By "dialing elevation", you're not talking about the reticle sub tensions changing in relation to the magnification setting, right?
Correct.
For some skill levels the ability to alter reticle subtension at will is a feature, not a bug.
Just Sayin.
Laughing.
Whether talking reticles, rulers, interferometers, or oscilloscopes, a continuously variable reference frame is not a “feature” I’m interested in. Properly designed FFP reticles have plenty of incremental range without changing scale.
For some skill levels the ability to alter reticle subtension at will is a feature, not a bug.
Just Sayin.
Laughing.
Whether talking reticles, rulers, interferometers, or oscilloscopes, a continuously variable reference frame is not a “feature” I’m interested in. Properly designed FFP reticles have plenty of incremental range without changing scale.
Do you know how I know you don't know schitt about oscilloscopes?
Being stymied by the change in subtension on a SFP optic is not really something one should brag about in a discussion with good shooters.
I can change subtension from 1 MOA to 2 MOA to 6 MOA at a whim and regularly use those settings in the field and range.
You might be unwilling the put a little effort into managing the magnifiction range and a more basic, simple FFP might satisfy your lower shooting expectations.
The last thing I want to do is go pound some posts in for a new hitching rail in my corrals, so here I sit drinking coffee and scratching my head trying to decipher atse's "dialing" point. I most certainly did NOT read his post in that he was talking about "dialing" the magnification ring.
I will try to clarify a couple points. My comment on dialing a sfp scope was a sarcastic remark in regards to one of John's earlier posts. It was not meant literally. Second, I used a poor choice when I said dialing magnification. Should have said changing magnification and dialing elevation. I simply meant through all of this that a ffp scope can have its magnification turned to any power and elevation dialed and shots on target will be the same. With a sfp scope, this is not the case. Sorry for the poor word choice. Hope that helps.
While I appreciate the clarification, I must say that this is still a head scratcher. Are you saying that with a SFP scope, as you turn magnification up or down, that the elevation erector changes values with each click? So at X magnification each click would be 1/4 MOA, but at Y magnification each click would be 1 MOA and so on? Both FFP and SFP "should" have the same erector correctional values per click of the turret, regardless of what magnification it is set at.
By "dialing elevation", you're not talking about the reticle sub tensions changing in relation to the magnification setting, right?
For some skill levels the ability to alter reticle subtension at will is a feature, not a bug.
Just Sayin.
Laughing.
Whether talking reticles, rulers, interferometers, or oscilloscopes, a continuously variable reference frame is not a “feature” I’m interested in. Properly designed FFP reticles have plenty of incremental range without changing scale.
Do you know how I know you don't know schitt about oscilloscopes?
Being stymied by the change in subtension on a SFP optic is not really something one should brag about in a discussion with good shooters.
I can change subtension from 1 MOA to 2 MOA to 6 MOA at a whim and regularly use those settings in the field and range.
You might be unwilling the put a little effort into managing the magnifiction range and a more basic, simple FFP might satisfy your lower shooting expectations.
Who am I to judge?
I think I have to agree with John Burns here, but I have to agree with other points of view also.
SFP or FFP...7 clicks is seven clicks, no matter what the magnification setting is.
What you get with with FFP is a reticle scaled to the target no matter the magnification, and for some that may be an advantage. What you get with SFP is a reticle that is consistently visible, no matter what the magnification is.
IMO, learn to use either or both. It can't hurt to understand both and it ain't hard.
One way to negate the perceived disadvantage of FFP in terms of diminished reticle at lower magnification is an illuminated dot and I could live with that. On the other hand, I could live with a mil reticle in a SFP scope with the understanding that it must be set to max magnification to take advantage of the reticle and I could live with that too because if I needed to compensate for range, I'd likely be able to make full use of full magnification anyway.
There is no clear and indisputable superiority between the two designs, in my opinion. With either, you gain one thing and give up another. No need to be emotional about it.
For some skill levels the ability to alter reticle subtension at will is a feature, not a bug.
Just Sayin.
Laughing.
Whether talking reticles, rulers, interferometers, or oscilloscopes, a continuously variable reference frame is not a “feature” I’m interested in. Properly designed FFP reticles have plenty of incremental range without changing scale.
Do you know how I know you don't know schitt about oscilloscopes?
Hah, which brand and model would you like to discuss? I work with a variety on a regular basis.
Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Being stymied by the change in subtension on a SFP optic is not really something one should brag about in a discussion with good shooters.
Thanks for the heads up. Next time I have a conversation with one, I'll be sure to keep that in mind.
Originally Posted by JohnBurns
I can change subtension from 1 MOA to 2 MOA to 6 MOA at a whim and regularly use those settings in the field and range.
Yeah.....well, I have a variety of subtensions in my scope, too. And? Seems I'm not limited at all by the subtensions available to me in my reticles on 0.5+ MOA targets, but I've come to expect snake-oil salesmen to try and invent "features" justifying whatever they're selling.
Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Who am I to judge?
Certainly not somebody who's verdict makes any difference to me. I've always treated you with respect, and find your recent passive-aggressive, condescending attitude to be pretty juvenile.
For some skill levels the ability to alter reticle subtension at will is a feature, not a bug.
Just Sayin.
Laughing.
Whether talking reticles, rulers, interferometers, or oscilloscopes, a continuously variable reference frame is not a “feature” I’m interested in. Properly designed FFP reticles have plenty of incremental range without changing scale.
Do you know how I know you don't know schitt about oscilloscopes?
Being stymied by the change in subtension on a SFP optic is not really something one should brag about in a discussion with good shooters.
I can change subtension from 1 MOA to 2 MOA to 6 MOA at a whim and regularly use those settings in the field and range.
You might be unwilling the put a little effort into managing the magnifiction range and a more basic, simple FFP might satisfy your lower shooting expectations.
Who am I to judge?
I think I have to agree with John Burns here, but I have to agree with other points of view also.
SFP or FFP...7 clicks is seven clicks, no matter what the magnification setting is.
What you get with with FFP is a reticle scaled to the target no matter the magnification, and for some that may be an advantage. What you get with SFP is a reticle that is consistently visible, no matter what the magnification is.
IMO, learn to use either or both. It can't hurt to understand both and it ain't hard.
One way to negate the perceived disadvantage of FFP in terms of diminished reticle at lower magnification is an illuminated dot and I could live with that. On the other hand, I could live with a mil reticle in a SFP scope with the understanding that it must be set to max magnification to take advantage of the reticle and I could live with that too because if I needed to compensate for range, I'd likely be able to make full use of full magnification anyway.
There is no clear and indisputable superiority between the two designs, in my opinion. With either, you gain one thing and give up another. No need to be emotional about it.
We're not talking about erector travel at all, here. Just the reticle subtensions. An FFP reticle can be more visible than a SFP reticle with the right design and magnification setting. If a guy is experienced using well-designed FFP reticles (not Leup or most NF), he sees the utility. Those who are married to brands with poorly designed FFP reticles won't see or admit the truth. A properly designed FFP reticle is easily visible on minimum magnification (minus the hashmarks), and the posts disappear and the fine details are easily visible on max magnification, with a good compromise found in the intermediate magnification range.
There is a lot to be said for KISS. I've seen critters missed cleanly by nervous hunters holding elevation with SFP scopes, where the hunter forgot to crank to the proper magnification in the heat of the moment. The subtensions in FFP reticles are consistent and remove one more variable that one has to keep in mind when making a shot.
Hah, which brand and model would you like to discuss? I work with a variety on a regular basis.
Those that the biggest knobs don't change the X and Y scale values on the display.
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
There is a lot to be said for KISS. I've seen critters missed cleanly by nervous hunters holding elevation with SFP scopes, where the hunter forgot to crank to the proper magnification in the heat of the moment. The subtensions in FFP reticles are consistent and remove one more variable that one has to keep in mind when making a shot.
Well those who lack training and shooting skills should try to Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS).
Those willing to up their game can take advantage of more sophisticated systems and can operate at higher levels.
Again I am not judging your lack of knowledge or shooting skill and I totally understand some shooters will never be able to manage magnification under stress.
Hah, which brand and model would you like to discuss? I work with a variety on a regular basis.
Those that the biggest knobs don't change the X and Y scale values on the display.
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
There is a lot to be said for KISS. I've seen critters missed cleanly by nervous hunters holding elevation with SFP scopes, where the hunter forgot to crank to the proper magnification in the heat of the moment. The subtensions in FFP reticles are consistent and remove one more variable that one has to keep in mind when making a shot.
Well those who lack training and shooting skills should try to Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS).
Those willing to up their game can take advantage of more sophisticated systems and can operate at higher levels.
Again I am not judging your lack of knowledge or shooting skill and I totally understand some shooters will never be able to manage magnification under stress.
Just Sayin.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you realize that "X and Y" are time and voltage scales. But I guess you missed the part about continuous variables versus discrete variables. Read my post again and you might catch on.
No, it has nothing to do with lacking training. It has to do with optimizing the complexity of the system so that it's as simple as possible while retaining sufficient adaptability and precision for the intended purposes. Anybody with any training in any field knows this. All human minds work more efficiently and effectively with a less-complex system versus one that is unnecessarily complicated. I've trained quite a bit with both SFP and FFP reticles, and know the advantages and disadvantages of each. I'm perfectly comfortable varying the subtensions of my reticle with a SFP scope using magnification, if needed, but I'm also readily willing to admit that FFP is the better mousetrap for such applications.
By your logic, it would "up your game" to convince your supplier to come out with a scope with variable erector increments so you could "operate at higher levels". After all, according to you the ability to vary the subtensions in your reticle is advantageous, so why wouldn't the ability to vary the turret increment values also be an advantage? More complexity is not always better.
Either way. I'm happy for you if you like the fact that your reticle's subtensions depend on the scope's magnification setting. But don't feed me BS and try to convince me it's chocolate ice cream. Training with and using FFP scopes hasn't prevented me from achieving excellence in competitive environments nor in the hunting fields, so regardless of how you spin it, FFP works at the highest level of precision and shooting skill I require. I'll readily admit that SFP reticles do have some very specific advantages over FFP designs in certain applications (like 1000 yard BR where distance and magnification are constants, or gopher shooting at ELR; in either case crosshair subtension needs to be minimized), but for general-purpose hitting of 0.5+ MOA targets from PBR to 1500+ meters, a well-designed FFP reticle is the easy choice for me.
Hah, which brand and model would you like to discuss? I work with a variety on a regular basis.
Those that the biggest knobs don't change the X and Y scale values on the display.
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
There is a lot to be said for KISS. I've seen critters missed cleanly by nervous hunters holding elevation with SFP scopes, where the hunter forgot to crank to the proper magnification in the heat of the moment. The subtensions in FFP reticles are consistent and remove one more variable that one has to keep in mind when making a shot.
Well those who lack training and shooting skills should try to Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS).
Those willing to up their game can take advantage of more sophisticated systems and can operate at higher levels.
Again I am not judging your lack of knowledge or shooting skill and I totally understand some shooters will never be able to manage magnification under stress.
Just Sayin.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you realize that "X and Y" are time and voltage scales. But I guess you missed the part about continuous variables versus discrete variables. Read my post again and you might catch on.
No, it has nothing to do with lacking training. It has to do with optimizing the complexity of the system so that it's as simple as possible while retaining sufficient adaptability and precision for the intended purposes. Anybody with any training in any field knows this. All human minds work more efficiently and effectively with a less-complex system versus one that is unnecessarily complicated. I've trained quite a bit with both SFP and FFP reticles, and know the advantages and disadvantages of each. I'm perfectly comfortable varying the subtensions of my reticle with a SFP scope using magnification, if needed, but I'm also readily willing to admit that FFP is the better mousetrap for such applications.
By your logic, it would "up your game" to convince your supplier to come out with a scope with variable erector increments so you could "operate at higher levels". After all, according to you the ability to vary the subtensions in your reticle is advantageous, so why wouldn't the ability to vary the turret increment values also be an advantage? More complexity is not always better.
Either way. I'm happy for you if you like the fact that your reticle's subtensions depend on the scope's magnification setting. But don't feed me BS and try to convince me it's chocolate ice cream. Training with and using FFP scopes hasn't prevented me from achieving excellence in competitive environments nor in the hunting fields, so regardless of how you spin it, FFP works at the highest level of precision and shooting skill I require. I'll readily admit that SFP reticles do have some very specific advantages over FFP designs in certain applications (like 1000 yard BR where distance and magnification are constants, or gopher shooting at ELR; in either case crosshair subtension needs to be minimized), but for general-purpose hitting of 0.5+ MOA targets from PBR to 1500+ meters, a well-designed FFP reticle is the easy choice for me.
Hah, which brand and model would you like to discuss? I work with a variety on a regular basis.
Those that the biggest knobs don't change the X and Y scale values on the display.
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
There is a lot to be said for KISS. I've seen critters missed cleanly by nervous hunters holding elevation with SFP scopes, where the hunter forgot to crank to the proper magnification in the heat of the moment. The subtensions in FFP reticles are consistent and remove one more variable that one has to keep in mind when making a shot.
Well those who lack training and shooting skills should try to Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS).
Those willing to up their game can take advantage of more sophisticated systems and can operate at higher levels.
Again I am not judging your lack of knowledge or shooting skill and I totally understand some shooters will never be able to manage magnification under stress.
Just Sayin.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you realize that "X and Y" are time and voltage scales. But I guess you missed the part about continuous variables versus discrete variables. Read my post again and you might catch on.
No, it has nothing to do with lacking training. It has to do with optimizing the complexity of the system so that it's as simple as possible while retaining sufficient adaptability and precision for the intended purposes. Anybody with any training in any field knows this. All human minds work more efficiently and effectively with a less-complex system versus one that is unnecessarily complicated. I've trained quite a bit with both SFP and FFP reticles, and know the advantages and disadvantages of each. I'm perfectly comfortable varying the subtensions of my reticle with a SFP scope using magnification, if needed, but I'm also readily willing to admit that FFP is the better mousetrap for such applications.
By your logic, it would "up your game" to convince your supplier to come out with a scope with variable erector increments so you could "operate at higher levels". After all, according to you the ability to vary the subtensions in your reticle is advantageous, so why wouldn't the ability to vary the turret increment values also be an advantage? More complexity is not always better.
Either way. I'm happy for you if you like the fact that your reticle's subtensions depend on the scope's magnification setting. But don't feed me BS and try to convince me it's chocolate ice cream. Training with and using FFP scopes hasn't prevented me from achieving excellence in competitive environments nor in the hunting fields, so regardless of how you spin it, FFP works at the highest level of precision and shooting skill I require. I'll readily admit that SFP reticles do have some very specific advantages over FFP designs in certain applications (like 1000 yard BR where distance and magnification are constants, or gopher shooting at ELR; in either case crosshair subtension needs to be minimized), but for general-purpose hitting of 0.5+ MOA targets from PBR to 1500+ meters, a well-designed FFP reticle is the easy choice for me.
Came across another Leup that has some internal zero shift induced by recoil. Fired several 5-shot groups at 100 meters from a very accurate .308 with a Mk4 8.5-25x50 on top, followed by a Hensoldt 3-12x. Most guys would never know the Leup has an issue and would think that the rifle/ammo is simply capable of ~1 MOA precision. The fired groups were revealing. Here are a couple of sample groups that are representative:
Jordan, you obviously never tried an advanced shooter SFP Leupold, as your skill level is pretty basic.
You need to emulate the shooter in the below pic; don't forget to attach a GreyBS pic rail decal mount on that unused RH fore-end advertising rail space.
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Came across another Leup that has some internal zero shift induced by recoil. Fired several 5-shot groups at 100 meters from a very accurate .308 with a Mk4 8.5-25x50 on top, followed by a Hensoldt 3-12x. Most guys would never know the Leup has an issue and would think that the rifle/ammo is simply capable of ~1 MOA precision. The fired groups were revealing. Here are a couple of sample groups that are representative:
Jordan, you obviously never tried an advanced shooter SFP Leupold, as your skill level is pretty basic.
You need to emulate the shooter in the below pic; don't forget to attach a GreyBS pic rail decal mount on that unused RH fore-end advertising rail space.
I got my new Leupold 4-12x40 AO back from their service dept that had tracking problems. Leupold said they noted a “side impact” and elected to replace the guts...
I didn’t take up the issue with the diagnosis of side impact even knowing the scope was NIB and never suffered any damage. Just seemed easier to say thanks.
I replaced 4-12 with a different scope. At this moment the Leupold sits in it’s return box without a home.
Jordan, you obviously never tried an advanced shooter SFP Leupold, as your skill level is pretty basic.
You need to emulate the shooter in the below pic; don't forget to attach a GreyBS pic rail decal mount on that unused RH fore-end advertising rail space.
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Came across another Leup that has some internal zero shift induced by recoil. Fired several 5-shot groups at 100 meters from a very accurate .308 with a Mk4 8.5-25x50 on top, followed by a Hensoldt 3-12x. Most guys would never know the Leup has an issue and would think that the rifle/ammo is simply capable of ~1 MOA precision. The fired groups were revealing. Here are a couple of sample groups that are representative:
Came across another Leup that has some internal zero shift induced by recoil. Fired several 5-shot groups at 100 meters from a very accurate .308 with a Mk4 8.5-25x50 on top, followed by a Hensoldt 3-12x. Most guys would never know the Leup has an issue and would think that the rifle/ammo is simply capable of ~1 MOA precision. The fired groups were revealing. Here are a couple of sample groups that are representative:
Leup:
Hensoldt:
The Leupold group would be plenty good enough to fill every deer tag I'm ever going to get. Don't even need that good really. I have no interest in shooting "steel" or any other target from a distance at which I'll never shoot game. It serves no purpose for me and targets, steel or otherwise, don't make good stew.
Came across another Leup that has some internal zero shift induced by recoil. Fired several 5-shot groups at 100 meters from a very accurate .308 with a Mk4 8.5-25x50 on top, followed by a Hensoldt 3-12x. Most guys would never know the Leup has an issue and would think that the rifle/ammo is simply capable of ~1 MOA precision. The fired groups were revealing. Here are a couple of sample groups that are representative:
Leup:
Hensoldt:
The Leupold group would be plenty good enough to fill every deer tag I'm ever going to get. Don't even need that good really. I have no interest in shooting "steel" or any other target from a distance at which I'll never shoot game. It serves no purpose for me and targets, steel or otherwise, don't make good stew.
Both of those 3 shot groups look like chidt and are they supposed to not be centered/zeroed on the x?? If you are shooting any kind of longrange (even 400+ yards), you would be off far enough to be out of the vitals.
Came across another Leup that has some internal zero shift induced by recoil. Fired several 5-shot groups at 100 meters from a very accurate .308 with a Mk4 8.5-25x50 on top, followed by a Hensoldt 3-12x. Most guys would never know the Leup has an issue and would think that the rifle/ammo is simply capable of ~1 MOA precision. The fired groups were revealing. Here are a couple of sample groups that are representative:
Leup:
Hensoldt:
The Leupold group would be plenty good enough to fill every deer tag I'm ever going to get. Don't even need that good really. I have no interest in shooting "steel" or any other target from a distance at which I'll never shoot game. It serves no purpose for me and targets, steel or otherwise, don't make good stew.
Both of those 3 shot groups look like chidt and are they supposed to not be centered/zeroed on the x?? If you are shooting any kind of longrange (even 400+ yards), you would be off far enough to be out of the vitals.
Came across another Leup that has some internal zero shift induced by recoil. Fired several 5-shot groups at 100 meters from a very accurate .308 with a Mk4 8.5-25x50 on top, followed by a Hensoldt 3-12x. Most guys would never know the Leup has an issue and would think that the rifle/ammo is simply capable of ~1 MOA precision. The fired groups were revealing. Here are a couple of sample groups that are representative:
Leup:
Hensoldt:
The Leupold group would be plenty good enough to fill every deer tag I'm ever going to get. Don't even need that good really. I have no interest in shooting "steel" or any other target from a distance at which I'll never shoot game. It serves no purpose for me and targets, steel or otherwise, don't make good stew.
Either is probably good enough for most hunters, which is kind of my point. Leupold can get away with building their erector mechanisms such that they have a 0.5 MOA tolerance in zero shift, and most guys won't notice or complain. But a very accurate rifle can bring such things to light. Just because the zero shift doesn't pose a problem for a particular hunting style, doesn't mean that the shift isn't there.
Came across another Leup that has some internal zero shift induced by recoil. Fired several 5-shot groups at 100 meters from a very accurate .308 with a Mk4 8.5-25x50 on top, followed by a Hensoldt 3-12x. Most guys would never know the Leup has an issue and would think that the rifle/ammo is simply capable of ~1 MOA precision. The fired groups were revealing. Here are a couple of sample groups that are representative:
Leup:
Hensoldt:
The Leupold group would be plenty good enough to fill every deer tag I'm ever going to get. Don't even need that good really. I have no interest in shooting "steel" or any other target from a distance at which I'll never shoot game. It serves no purpose for me and targets, steel or otherwise, don't make good stew.
Both of those 3 shot groups look like chidt and are they supposed to not be centered/zeroed on the x?? If you are shooting any kind of longrange (even 400+ yards), you would be off far enough to be out of the vitals.
If you had bothered to read the post you would know that they are both 5-shot groups. And no, zeroing the scopes was not of any concern for this comparison; I was strictly looking at group size and shifting POI.
Came across another Leup that has some internal zero shift induced by recoil. Fired several 5-shot groups at 100 meters from a very accurate .308 with a Mk4 8.5-25x50 on top, followed by a Hensoldt 3-12x. Most guys would never know the Leup has an issue and would think that the rifle/ammo is simply capable of ~1 MOA precision. The fired groups were revealing. Here are a couple of sample groups that are representative:
Leup:
Hensoldt:
The Leupold group would be plenty good enough to fill every deer tag I'm ever going to get. Don't even need that good really. I have no interest in shooting "steel" or any other target from a distance at which I'll never shoot game. It serves no purpose for me and targets, steel or otherwise, don't make good stew.
Either is probably good enough for most hunters, which is kind of my point. Leupold can get away with building their erector mechanisms such that they have a 0.5 MOA tolerance in zero shift, and most guys won't notice or complain. But a very accurate rifle can bring such things to light. Just because the zero shift doesn't pose a problem for a particular hunting style, doesn't mean that the shift isn't there.
One might suggest that if one "needs" better than MOA accuracy for deer/big game they're more interested in killing than hunting. For long range targets and competitive shooters no doubt they'd need all they can get.
Build accurate rifles in case your scope sucks, said nobody ever.
I'd put a lot more thought into that if I didn't regularly shoot .5 moa groups with the rifles/scopes I have. Some of them are even scoped with Leupolds. I have 14k in my checking account right now. My home and car are paid for and I don't use credit cards ever. If I thought I needed a better scope for anything I do, I'd buy one. If it ain't broke, I'm not fixing it.
[/quote] One might suggest that if one "needs" better than MOA accuracy for deer/big game they're more interested in killing than hunting. For long range targets and competitive shooters no doubt they'd need all they can get.
One could very easily argue the very opposite. What deserves a more accurate setup? An animal or a piece of steel or paper? If a rifle struggles to do MOA it shouldn't be carried to the woods imho. Myself I feel I owe it to the animals to carry as accurate of a setup as possible. So that when the time comes for the shot I don't have to hope that my gear is up to the task. Leupold won't be found on any of my rifles for that very reason
Jordan, you obviously never tried an advanced shooter SFP Leupold, as your skill level is pretty basic.
You need to emulate the shooter in the below pic; don't forget to attach a GreyBS pic rail decal mount on that unused RH fore-end advertising rail space.
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Came across another Leup that has some internal zero shift induced by recoil. Fired several 5-shot groups at 100 meters from a very accurate .308 with a Mk4 8.5-25x50 on top, followed by a Hensoldt 3-12x. Most guys would never know the Leup has an issue and would think that the rifle/ammo is simply capable of ~1 MOA precision. The fired groups were revealing. Here are a couple of sample groups that are representative:
Why, is that Burns in the pic?
NM, the skin tone is all wrong.
Ha! That, and the fact his mouth isn't running 190mph.
One could very easily argue the very opposite. What deserves a more accurate setup? An animal or a piece of steel or paper? If a rifle struggles to do MOA it shouldn't be carried to the woods imho. Myself I feel I owe it to the animals to carry as accurate of a setup as possible. So that when the time comes for the shot I don't have to hope that my gear is up to the task. Leupold won't be found on any of my rifles for that very reason
If MOA isn't completely adequate, get closer. That's why it's called hunting.
One could very easily argue the very opposite. What deserves a more accurate setup? An animal or a piece of steel or paper? If a rifle struggles to do MOA it shouldn't be carried to the woods imho. Myself I feel I owe it to the animals to carry as accurate of a setup as possible. So that when the time comes for the shot I don't have to hope that my gear is up to the task. Leupold won't be found on any of my rifles for that very reason
If MOA isn't completely adequate, get closer. That's why it's called hunting.
Pics like this aren’t hard to find. Are they supposed to be on the orange dot?
You’re stil an idiot.
Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Both of those 3 shot groups look like chidt and are they supposed to not be centered/zeroed on the x?? If you are shooting any kind of longrange (even 400+ yards), you would be off far enough to be out of the vitals.
Came across another Leup that has some internal zero shift induced by recoil. Fired several 5-shot groups at 100 meters from a very accurate .308 with a Mk4 8.5-25x50 on top, followed by a Hensoldt 3-12x. Most guys would never know the Leup has an issue and would think that the rifle/ammo is simply capable of ~1 MOA precision. The fired groups were revealing. Here are a couple of sample groups that are representative:
Leup:
Hensoldt:
The Leupold group would be plenty good enough to fill every deer tag I'm ever going to get. Don't even need that good really. I have no interest in shooting "steel" or any other target from a distance at which I'll never shoot game. It serves no purpose for me and targets, steel or otherwise, don't make good stew.
Both of those 3 shot groups look like chidt and are they supposed to not be centered/zeroed on the x?? If you are shooting any kind of longrange (even 400+ yards), you would be off far enough to be out of the vitals.
Build accurate rifles in case your scope sucks, said nobody ever.
I'd put a lot more thought into that if I didn't regularly shoot .5 moa groups with the rifles/scopes I have. Some of them are even scoped with Leupolds. I have 14k in my checking account right now. My home and car are paid for and I don't use credit cards ever. If I thought I needed a better scope for anything I do, I'd buy one. If it ain't broke, I'm not fixing it.
That right there makes more sense than anything I've read on this thread yet.
I've got a couple rifles with Leupolds that will damn near shoot in the same hole. Leupold isn't the only scope that can have problems. But I've found that Leupold and Nikon for reasonable priced scopes shoot more consistent for my money. I cannot afford a thousand dollar scope. I've got one that cost me $800 and that was at my gun smith's cost. He made about $1000 off me for the rifle build the scope went on. Most of my scopes cost $300-$400 and I'm pushing it to spend that. If you can afford it, good for you, but I bet I killed as many deer through the years with my ratty old Nikons and Leupolds.
I'm thinking of buying a VX-5HD 3-15x44 and getting a custom turret cut. Somewhere along the way, I remember reading negative comments about Leupolds not tracking well. Any info on this to pass along? Thanks in advance.
I've never had a problem with Leupold tracking, but I'm sure some have. YMMV.
NF, S&B, TRACT, MEOPTA, SWAROVSKI, ZEIS, etc are some of the brands that you don't need some fickle combinatin to get them to track perfectly. Make needed correction and it is correct each and every time.
I'm sure tha Leupold could make a scope to adjust properly but far too many have problems and that is a fact
NF, S&B, TRACT, MEOPTA, SWAROVSKI, ZEIS, etc are some of the brands that you don't need some fickle combinatin to get them to track perfectly. Make needed correction and it is correct each and every time.
I'm sure tha Leupold could make a scope to adjust properly but far too many have problems and that is a fact
Well I don't have any issues with tracking and Leupold can sell more optics than they can make so if you need something else feel free to spend your dollars there.
Screw buying any scope made in Japan the Phillipines or China…..
You do know that Leupold actually only manufactures their own scope bodies and not much else right? Almost all of their glass and small parts are bought from Asian suppliers under contract (most of their glad is/was Nikon made). So yeah although it’s physically assembled in ORE, the fact that it’s mostly foreign parts means calling it US made is pretty sketchy at best.
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