Just recently in a land near by, Salmonella initiated Volume 1 on this subject. Photobucket's recent faux pas essentially destroyed about 30 some pages of what was a most interesting and well illustrated thread. Let's get it resurrected with some now functioning links to both new and/or old images.
Put this up the other day in the old thread. These are modern reproductions I've generated. The only cheap hobby I've ever taken up as the raw material (obsidian) is readily available in the yard.
Salmonella, bring us back some real McCoy's please. Snow's melting, rains are falling, fields are being worked up, so there should be some new finds out there.
Good job resurrecting a great thread, I thoroughly enjoyed the first one. As I said on the other thread 1minute, you’ve got a talent for making arrowheads and several here have a talent for finding them. Salmonella has an amazing collection and the dream man cave to house it all.
I just wish there wasn't so much no-till going on here. It's really hard to find points in ground that's not being worked. Here's one I found in my garden last year.
Just recently in a land near by, Salmonella initiated volume 1 on this subject. Photobucket's recent faux pas essentially destroyed about 30 some pages of what was a most interesting and well illustrated thread. Let's get it resurrected with some now functioning links to both new and/or old images.
Put this up the other day in the old thread. These are modern reproductions I've generated. The only cheap hobby I've ever taken up as the raw material (obsidian) is readily available in the yard.
Salmonella, bring us back some real McCoy's please. Snow's melting, rains are falling, fields are being worked up, and there should be some new finds out there.
How long does it take you to make one of those points?
My 1st case of decent stuff took about 3yrs to accumulate Bout 1/4th to 1/3rd of the way to a second.
Slumlord got me into this addiction We have had our ups and downs as friends over the past 10 yrs I gave him a Clovis I had found a couple of days prior to his transplant surgery To brighten him up as best I could. The man and his family had a real rough time going thru that Not an average routine transplant at all by far. Nuff said on my part. Friends fight and get over chyt.....
How long does it take you to make one of those points?
The small true arrow heads I can knock out in 5 minutes or so. Points/knives 4+ inches long might require 30 to 45 minutes. I've done some 10 inch implements, but not made any foot longs yet. Need to get out and find some larger material. Matched pairs are the real bears. The first is a piece of cake. Generating a second with the same dimensions/lines can take 45 minutes to an hour if I don't break anything.
I once did a set of 12 matched points, each 5 inches long, of varying colors, and mounted them in circular pattern in a shadow box for a RMEF fundraiser. All told there was about 24 hrs of labor involved. They were auctioned off and during those moments I was busy tending to some committee business. Some guy got them for $75. Had I been aware of the goings on, I would have bought them back for 3 or 4 times that. Spent $50 on the box and mounting. No interest at all in doing sale materials. Just one of my worthless hobbies.
I've not seriously attempted to master Folsom and Clovis techniques. My few efforts have mostly generated pieces that are snapped in half. They now reside in my neighbor's horse lot surrounded by a scatting of French words.
Huntsman22: Is that top left image of yours above glass or some very transparent agate? Glass, if one can find an old dump with gallon jar bottoms, is great stuff to work with. Unless heat-treated, agate and flint is tough material to work up. Obsidian can be extremely sharp, but not as durable as flint or agate.
renegade50 and JameJr: Some very nice stuff and a variety of implements there (points, knives, scrapers, awls, drills, and bifaces that could be used for who knows what). Nice collections indeed.
For pics it might be helpful to include something for scale. There's some really fine art out there that can be incredibly small.
I found all of those in Christian and Todd counties here in Kentucky. I have a good place here on the farm, but it's been hunted to death. As I said in an earlier post, no-till farming has made arrowhead hunting very hard anymore.
12344mag: For decades, Cookie and I have been out and about. We've found some pieces, but most everything of substance were only halves. We've never been rabid pot hunters, as serious digging/sifting on our mostly public lands is a no no. Mostly as a challenge, I picked up some raw materials, perched on the pickup tail gate when I got home, and chiseled out what might have almost looked like a 1 1/2 inch point in about 3 hours. Not too bad I thought. Only took 3 hours.
I kept struggling in spare moments for a month or so, and soon had an extensive collection of maybe 4 crude points if one held them up and looked just so. Subsequently I came upon a flint knapping book by a gentleman named Waldorf (like the hotel). His presentations laid out the basic principles of getting rocks to break in desired patterns and I was off and running in about another 2 months. The book is about the same dimensions as a Saturday Evening Post if one comes from that era.
There are many other publications out there on the subject now, many employing paleo techniques and others building complex jigs and using hydraulics, rock saws, and impact tools to bang out their fabrications. Also many technique discussions in refereed journals.
One blessing for me is that I can gather obsidian at almost tons per hour rates. Many sources on public ground here in Harney and Lake counties. Locally near Glass Buttes, Oregon there has been an annual flint knapping gathering in early spring (like March). One might be able to surf up some references. I've been to a portion of one of those, and it's about a 3-day affair with everything from seriously scruffy mountain men to university PhD's camping out and hammering on rocks while passing on their discoveries and techniques. A very informal and remote event, and weather can and does do anything that time of year.
It is a neat and challenging hobby, and while there are some extremely adept makers out there, I've not met one yet that considers himself a master.
I found all of those in Christian and Todd counties here in Kentucky. I have a good place here on the farm, but it's been hunted to death. As I said in an earlier post, no-till farming has made arrowhead hunting very hard anymore.
renegae50: Yes. One needs to find some reason to rip or plow deeper. Great country for finds back there with I think a more extended and continuous history. Used to be a resident of Tenn, Va, and WVa and my brother has all of my treasures from back there. Ice ages, Pleistocene floods, and subsequent conversions to near desert, make things a bit spotty out here. Where all the resources do come together though, there are some good places to look.
Long story short, 30 years ago while rafting the upper San Miguel, we stopped at a very unlikely spot to wait for another raft. I climbed a bluff to get a view of the other raft, and there on a shelf of rock set back into the bluff was a bunch of pottery shards and an intact jar. It was cracked, and the lip was chipped, and it had a faint design painted on it.
My first instinct was to take it, but I didn't think it was likely to survive the raft trip, and I said to heck with it and put back exactly where I found it.
I doubt if I could find that spot again after all this time.
Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 20,852 Burns/Hines, Oregon, USA 12344mag: Quote How long does it take you to make one of those points?
The small true arrow heads I can knock out in 5 minutes or so. Points/knives 4+ inches long might require 30 to 45 minutes. I've done some 10 inch implements, but not made any foot longs yet. Need to get out and find some larger material. Matched pairs are the real bears. The first is a piece of cake. Generating a second with the same dimensions/lines can take 45 minutes to an hour if I don't break anything.
1Minute
Greyghost? Are you familiar with a flint knapper from West Plains Mo who went by the name of Grayghost during the 70's/ 80's. He used gray flint from Texas and mass produced 10 to 12" points. You can find a lot of information on him by Googling the name Grayghost. I have a 15" point made by him. He had a very unusual knapping method.
I found my first point at approximately age six while digging fishing worms in our barn lot. Have my small collection and two other collections found by friends. No picture posting ability but will forward pictures to anyone who wants to post them to this thread. Have a few unusual artifacts that you don't see everyday. Need to photograph the frames anyway for estate reasons. GW
No, not familiar with Grayghost. I spent an afternoon with a professional knapper at a conference in Bozeman in about 85, but his name has long ago escaped me. He was hammering untreated flint, and his fingers and arms clearly exhibited the stresses they'd endured over the nears. Said his doctor had long ago encouraged him to quit. He did have beautiful stuff, and I was obviously way short of his skills in working that material.
I have some Texas buddies that owe me, and they're always threatening to bring up some flint. Always escapes their mind though when they do get around to running this way. I recall seeing sizeable chunks embedded in rip rap boulders around Brownsville and Corpus Christi. Lots of variable colors as well.
We have a couple professionals in the region that display some 24 to 30" pieces in both red and black obsidian. I'm fairly sure they rough their blanks out as thin slabs with rock saws. Sadly the younger of the two rolled a 4-wheeler a couple years back and suffered some brain and vision damage. Migraines etc have set him back. With a good marketing manager, I suspect he could have earned 6-figure coin setting up shop in a well visited year round destination resort.
Sawed blanks are a bit of cheat, but they certainly conserve material. One shapes the slabs and then simply flakes off the saw scarred surfaces. I can start with a foot long chunk, hammer out a single point, and have 5 lbs of waste at my feet when done. I'm pretty much an impact and pressure flaker. With a saw, one can get 7 or 8 similarly dimensioned points out the same rock I started with, and be left with a couple lbs of waste.
Given what pops out of the ground on occasion though, there were some seriously skilled artists roaming around our continent in pre-settlement days.
1minute, could that Boseman knapper have been Russ Ivy? he is in a nursing home here now , but i used to have a table next to him at gun shows and watch him work. Guy was a michelangelo with obsidian, chert, and flint or whatever. made antler handled knives about 6-8 inches long while sitting there.
deerstalker: I'm sorry. It could well have been, but could also have been Herby Schwartz, Elmer Fudd, or Kilroy W. Here. He used moose/deer antler butts and some heavy copper rod as hammers, and then wood/copper punches for pressure flaking. That with a good layer of saddle leather in his lap and in one hand. I suspect you are correct, but 1985 was like 33 years ago. Consider myself lucky at 72 yrs to remember the combo to my gun safe. Sometimes I open it just to practice.
Have a good one,
Edited: That lower center white point with the ruler in your image above appears to have been done by a left-handed knapper. A right-hander would run those flakes in the opposing direction starting from the upper right edge. For comparison, look at the largest certer piece in Renegade50's picture above. The flakes on that one originate from the upper right edge. Nice work with tough material.
About 20-25 of these were found in an tobacco patch after the guy plowed it deeper than it had ever been plowed. The area is a high shallow, and for this area, flat hollow with a lot of springs on each side. Camp area? It brings up the question of how deep in the ground the good stuff rests?
Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 20,852 Burns/Hines, Oregon, USA 12344mag: Quote How long does it take you to make one of those points?
The small true arrow heads I can knock out in 5 minutes or so. Points/knives 4+ inches long might require 30 to 45 minutes. I've done some 10 inch implements, but not made any foot longs yet. Need to get out and find some larger material. Matched pairs are the real bears. The first is a piece of cake. Generating a second with the same dimensions/lines can take 45 minutes to an hour if I don't break anything.
1Minute
Greyghost? Are you familiar with a flint knapper from West Plains Mo who went by the name of Grayghost during the 70's/ 80's. He used gray flint from Texas and mass produced 10 to 12" points. You can find a lot of information on him by Googling the name Grayghost. I have a 15" point made by him. He had a very unusual knapping method.
I found my first point at approximately age six while digging fishing worms in our barn lot. Have my small collection and two other collections found by friends. No picture posting ability but will forward pictures to anyone who wants to post them to this thread. Have a few unusual artifacts that you don't see everyday. Need to photograph the frames anyway for estate reasons. GW
I've heard of greyghost from some knapping acquaintances here many years ago. . There was a greasy looking grey chert from I think the Fort Hood area (Coryell county) that I think he used.
About 20-25 of these were found in an tobacco patch after the guy plowed it deeper than it had ever been plowed. The area is a high shallow, and for this area, flat hollow with a lot of springs on each side. Camp area? It brings up the question of how deep in the ground the good stuff rests?
The depth depends on the site.
The oldest will be at the bottom of a particular site. Mostly, the oldest has the finest craftsmanship and rarity as well.
Some sites can run very deep. The people that lived in them didn't really clean house... they just added new layers of dirt. After hundreds or thousands of years, that can get pretty deep.
I used to do a lot of native style twining and fingerweaving with natural materials. Texas Archaeological Researh Lab has an extensive collection of pecos area woven material and artifacts. While young son was doing some internship there I was able to get into the vault (tripping over the Malakoff heads collected in the 30's) and examine 100's of preserved woven artifacts.
Barry's housecleaning comment prompted my memory of one of the woven sandal type pieces of footware affectionately and accurately refered to by research staff as "the pooh sandal".
About 20-25 of these were found in an tobacco patch after the guy plowed it deeper than it had ever been plowed. The area is a high shallow, and for this area, flat hollow with a lot of springs on each side. Camp area? It brings up the question of how deep in the ground the good stuff rests?
On the depth question
I test that with a landowner. We took a shovel and dug a couple of test pits in the hottest of the hottest center of the best part of the "site".
A post hole. Top soil was 15-18" deep. Then we hit a red clay layer. That intersect is where the flakes ceased. I'm thinking the place was initially a buffalo wallow that was panned out by the herds. Then the Indians moved in and started building organic matter from there.
I have spent the majority of my life in the woods and fields hunting and fishing. Near almost ten years ago, I acquired my little piece of heaven, and have plowed a portion up each year to plant. I have yet to find an arrowhead.
Granted, I'm not actively searching, but I would have thought I would have run across at least one by now. I would love to be able to find some around here. The area where I live is full of Indian history; point of fact, "Lord Dunmore's War" began with the slaughter of Chief Logan's brother just across from the mouth of Yellow Creek on the Ohio at Baker's Tavern along Baker's Bottom, which is only about 15 minutes from my farm. The Little Beaver Creek runs just past my farm, and is alleged to have been Mingo Indian territory.
Surely there has to be a few laying about around these parts; though admittedly, I have no idea "where" to look, and "what" to look for. Anyone want to share some tips?
I posted these on the other thread and thought I would post them here too since they will be among other pictures rather than a bunch of Photobucket messages. I made them from Obsidian. I'm getting better but I'm not near where I want to be with my knapping.
I used to do a lot of native style twining and fingerweaving with natural materials. Texas Archaeological Researh Lab has an extensive collection of pecos area woven material and artifacts. While young son was doing some internship there I was able to get into the vault (tripping over the Malakoff heads collected in the 30's) and examine 100's of preserved woven artifacts.
Barry's housecleaning comment prompted my memory of one of the woven sandal type pieces of footware affectionately and accurately refered to by research staff as "the pooh sandal".
That's some really nice points, Bob! I like those Garzas and Toyahs...
Had some really nice woven mats (in pieces), and lots of those woven sandals. Usually, the sandals were woven Soto fibers.
Barry, Thats cool! That stuff really like the dry in those shelters. That small point above Washingtons head in the one photo. I could see Sheffield Texas from the shelter where I found it.
I have no idea "where" to look, and "what" to look for. Anyone want to share some tips?
Old, permanent water sources. Streams usually.
Look on the higher bank, above the high water marks. Those folks had to have water, but they weren't stupid, so looking in a creek bed is usually a waste of time. Old, more permanent camps are within a pretty easy walk from water.
deerstalker: I'm sorry. It could well have been, but could also have been Herby Schwartz, Elmer Fudd, or Kilroy W. Here. He used moose/deer antler butts and some heavy copper rod as hammers, and then wood/copper punches for pressure flaking. That with a good layer of saddle leather in his lap and in one hand. I suspect you are correct, but 1985 was like 33 years ago. Consider myself lucky at 72 yrs to remember the combo to my gun safe. Sometimes I open it just to practice.
Have a good one,
Edited: That lower center white point with the ruler in your image above appears to have been done by a left-handed knapper. A right-hander would run those flakes in the opposing direction starting from the upper right edge. For comparison, look at the largest certer piece in Renegade50's picture above. The flakes on that one originate from the upper right edge. Nice work with tough material.
I tried creek walking direcly adjacent to a spot I've found thousands of artifacts in.
Did not find even so much as a chip or flake. Other people I have met have had some luck. Waste of time for my areas. Too much competing media in the creeks here.
Now if you have a muddy bottom branch with no gravels, might be way different.
I tried creek walking direcly adjacent to a spot I've found thousands of artifacts in.
Did not find even so much as a chip or flake. Other people I have met have had some luck. Waste of time for my areas. Too much competing media in the creeks here.
Now if you have a muddy bottom branch with no gravels, might be way different.
I've found some pretty decent stuff where washes and erosion went through a camp, or the banks changed a bit. Mostly the good camps I've found are above all that. FEMA should use the camps as a basis for 500 year floodplanes.
About 20-25 of these were found in an tobacco patch after the guy plowed it deeper than it had ever been plowed. The area is a high shallow, and for this area, flat hollow with a lot of springs on each side. Camp area? It brings up the question of how deep in the ground the good stuff rests?
Years ago, most all cropland was plowed each year with a moldboard plow. That turned the soil over, and it was pretty easy to find stuff. Todays farmers rarely do that.....the Mennonites and Amish still do....instead relying on no-till or minimum till. No doubt that the good stuff is down there deep in the soil.
No, not familiar with Grayghost. I spent an afternoon with a professional knapper at a conference in Bozeman in about 85, but his name has long ago escaped me. He was hammering untreated flint, and his fingers and arms clearly exhibited the stresses they'd endured over the nears. Said his doctor had long ago encouraged him to quit. He did have beautiful stuff, and I was obviously way short of his skills in working that material.
I have some Texas buddies that owe me, and they're always threatening to bring up some flint. Always escapes their mind though when they do get around to running this way. I recall seeing sizeable chunks embedded in rip rap boulders around Brownsville and Corpus Christi. Lots of variable colors as well.
We have a couple professionals in the region that display some 24 to 30" pieces in both red and black obsidian. I'm fairly sure they rough their blanks out as thin slabs with rock saws. Sadly the younger of the two rolled a 4-wheeler a couple years back and suffered some brain and vision damage. Migraines etc have set him back. With a good marketing manager, I suspect he could have earned 6-figure coin setting up shop in a well visited year round destination resort.
Sawed blanks are a bit of cheat, but they certainly conserve material. One shapes the slabs and then simply flakes off the saw scarred surfaces. I can start with a foot long chunk, hammer out a single point, and have 5 lbs of waste at my feet when done. I'm pretty much an impact and pressure flaker. With a saw, one can get 7 or 8 similarly dimensioned points out the same rock I started with, and be left with a couple lbs of waste.
Given what pops out of the ground on occasion though, there were some seriously skilled artists roaming around our continent in pre-settlement days.
1Minute& Kaywoodie
Grayghost did in fact saw his thin blanks with a rock saw. Devised some type of mechanical had operated method to flake with. Interesting guy, a friend of mine knew him and introduced him to an old knapper from West Pains Mo who in turn taught Grayghost to knap. Within a few months his ability excelled the old knapper. Google him for a very interesting read on his life. GW
Locally (if 35 miles away can be deemed local) there is a university sponsored dig going on during our spring summer months. It's in a spot beneath a basalt rim that would offer some degree of shelter from the elements, but not a place one would expect village like numbers. They are down about a dozen feet, finding enough to keep them interested, but not anything a collector type would go bonkers over. Carbon dating has them back about 14,000 yrs right now.
The area is in about a 12" annual precip zone supporting an endless sea of Wyoming big sagebrush (about 2.5 ft tall). No perennial water within 10 to 15 miles. One of our primo obsidian sources is only about 5 miles away. An interesting aspect is that all the wood and fire ring remnants are willow. Today, one would have to hike all the way to perennial water to pick that up. Obviously, the climate and vegetation were quite a bit different around here when we were exiting the last ice age.
Most of us fail to think in those time scales, and mother nature can deposit or move a lot of soil when one starts thinking in thousands of years. If one deposits about 1/32 inch of soil in a single year (not unreasonable in a forest), he ends up with about 36.5 feet of accumulation after 14,000 years. Again, Cookie and I are not pot hunters, but I've sound a few worked pieces of obsidian (scrapers and bifaces) two to three feet down in forested road cuts.
A lot of evidence in this region suggests there were waves of occupation and abandonment through the ages with the lithic tools being of different styles for each era. They see some similar patterns up along the Columbia River where salmon were a mainstay. During any of the Missoula Floods, the water was too deep and fast for fishing, and tribes headed into the highlands to make a living for several generations returning when the flows subsided.
It also seems some of the more artistic artifacts come from areas where the living was relatively easy. Most of the pieces found in our arid deserts are quite crude. They're functional, but nothing suggesting much in the way of artistic pride.
Mathsr: Just curious: Where on earth does a guy from Georgia go to source obsidian?
Mathsr: Just curious: Where on earth does a guy from Georgia go to source obsidian?
I have to order it. But still, it isn't all that expensive. I can sell a few points made into necklaces and easily cover the cost of 25 pounds of obsidian. Missouri Trading Company Is the most reliable place I have found to get obsidian so far.
Most of the flint in Georgia is hours away from me and a pain to work. The Georgia butterscotch flint makes a very attractive point, but can have a lot of faults and inclusions in the rock. I have found that obsidian is easy to work, has very few faults or inclusions and makes an attractive point or blade. I guess I'll keep on ordering it.
Thanks, I was just curious. Lucky enough to just kick cobbles out of ones way here as I walk down a hill. Agree that it's the easiest of all the untreated materials to handle. Knappers are an inventive bunch though. I've seen some very nice pieces made from old porcelain toilet bowls and urinals.
Damm dude what was he Arnold swartzinpheasant ? I have grabbed a bunch of turkeys by legs and stepped on their necks and give em a jerk to snap their necks, never got spurred like that. Some old "timers" have told me "boy your getting spurred real bad 1 day" I don't listen to alot of old timers around here that have only shot 1 handful of turkeys their entire life needless to say. That bird got ya good though.
I have been known to make some points out of weird things when I get hard up for some good rock, but think I'll pass on the urinals and toilet bowls. I've used old TV screens, floor tiles(not really all that bad) bottle bottoms and glass plates.
I found some old red glass plates not long ago and made a few small points from the bottom of them. Those were pretty thin but looked good...red glass is really hard to find around here.
I think thats how they found Ishi. He was rummaging thru a garbage heap looking for Milk of Magnesia bottles wasnt he? The blue color supposedly meant something to him. He was using the bottoms for points. You've probably heard that story!
The paleo haw river on the upper left is gonna be a center peice for another shadow box eventually. Some stuff from last spring Fish tail Dalton on lower left was a heartbreaker when I picked it up. Small missisippian point is about 7/8ths of an inch long. Yet to figure out what the small triangle thing that is to the right of the fish tail dalton It is a whole peice, really finely knapped all around on both sides.
I think thats how they found Ishi. He was rummaging thru a garbage heap looking for Milk of Magnesia bottles wasnt he? The blue color supposedly meant something to him. He was using the bottoms for points. You've probably heard that story!
I have read about Ishi! It would be great learning to knapp from someone that did it for a living...or to live. I have a friend that is a Cherokee (a real one, not like Warren who just thinks she is a Cherokee) I talk with from time to time about knapping. He is very good at knapping and enjoys showing people how to get started. Still, it is getting your hands on some stone that is the best teacher.
Glass is relatively easy to find and easy to knapp as it is very consistent. Sky Vodka bottles make a great blue point, but they are kind of limited in size because of the size of the bottle bottom. This is one of the red points that is destined to hang around the neck of the daughter of a friend.
The paleo haw river on the upper left is gonna be a center peice for another shadow box eventually. Some stuff from last spring Fish tail Dalton on lower left was a heartbreaker when I picked it up. Small missisippian point is about 7/8ths of an inch long. Yet to figure out what the small triangle thing that is to the right of the fish tail dalton It is a whole peice, really finely knapped all around on both sides.
It's a sharks tooth, petrified sharks teeth can be found by the hundreds in Florida by walking the beach, I have jars full of them.
I always wondered how anyone could go through life, especially if they ever even go outdoors sometimes... how they couldn't find one. Even accidentally.
I have spent the majority of my life in the woods and fields hunting and fishing. Near almost ten years ago, I acquired my little piece of heaven, and have plowed a portion up each year to plant. I have yet to find an arrowhead.
Granted, I'm not actively searching, but I would have thought I would have run across at least one by now. I would love to be able to find some around here. The area where I live is full of Indian history; point of fact, "Lord Dunmore's War" began with the slaughter of Chief Logan's brother just across from the mouth of Yellow Creek on the Ohio at Baker's Tavern along Baker's Bottom, which is only about 15 minutes from my farm. The Little Beaver Creek runs just past my farm, and is alleged to have been Mingo Indian territory.
Surely there has to be a few laying about around these parts; though admittedly, I have no idea "where" to look, and "what" to look for. Anyone want to share some tips?
Most of my better places are sandy ridges and hills near old bodies of water. Make sure the body of water is not manmade. The land inside the loops of sloughs and bayous is often a good place to look. Pay attention when driving around and if you spot a likely looking place try to find the owner and ask permission. Often they will direct you to other places.
The paleo haw river on the upper left is gonna be a center peice for another shadow box eventually. Some stuff from last spring Fish tail Dalton on lower left was a heartbreaker when I picked it up. Small missisippian point is about 7/8ths of an inch long. Yet to figure out what the small triangle thing that is to the right of the fish tail dalton It is a whole peice, really finely knapped all around on both sides.
It's a sharks tooth, petrified sharks teeth can be found by the hundreds in Florida by walking the beach, I have jars full of them.
It does look like a megladon tooth HOWEVER: i can assure you it's made from a nodule of gray chert born from the Ste. Genevieve Limestone formation.
The area it was found in was practically an artifact factory. I have found many pieces of unfinished work. I actually think there have been several caches that have been plowed-through. It's not uncommon to find several whole blades, tools, etc all with a 200 sq ft area. Not necessarily in the same day.
The distribution is thick, more so than a "camp scattering" distribution.
This particular site surrounds 1/2 dozen LARGE-ORDER springs, that feed into a small river. The area also contains tools of nomenclature that transcend a very long timeline from late paleo, transitional, and all periods of the archaic.
there is a place, up in what is now the aqua fria national park, on the side of a mountain canyon. there was a settlement there probably about 500or so years ago. the outlines are still there. I found an area off to the side, full of chippings, and some red obsidian. I was told this is not native to arizona, probably came by trade to arizona from up around the great lakes region. I was sitting on some boulders overlooking the canyon around dusk, and looked down right to my fight, and noticed a long cut in one of the boulders. I think that is where the tool guy had been sharpening is spearpoints, and so on. quite an interesting experience to sit there, where he would have sat so long ago. found a bunch of this stuff in various places.
Lost lake preform??? It is beveled on opposite sides like one Don't really understand why it is lobbed and notched in basal to the extreme like it is for lost lake type has the notched and lobbed basal area like the haw river description and oppisite beveling i seen pics of
I'm so confused at times trying to ID points . I am a newb at this anyways.😃😃😃
went to my favorite field Monday...getting to be my only field as trespassers have ruined looking for the lawabiding crowd. anyway about 20 steps in I find a 1783 Spanish 2 real coin. unfortunately someone had drilled a small hole in it during its previous life. the only interesting thing I found in a couple of hours looking. I addition to lots of partial tools and some completes, this field has also produced 2 late 1700/early1800 Large cents and one which was cut in half. interesting field.
went to my favorite field Monday...getting to be my only field as trespassers have ruined looking for the lawabiding crowd. anyway about 20 steps in I find a 1783 Spanish 2 real coin. unfortunately someone had drilled a small hole in it during its previous life. the only interesting thing I found in a couple of hours looking. I addition to lots of partial tools and some completes, this field has also produced 2 late 1700/early1800 Large cents and one which was cut in half. interesting field.
Found a 1916 Indian/ buffalo nickel, bout it for any old coin finds for me.
Lost lake preform??? It is beveled on opposite sides like one Don't really understand why it is lobbed and notched in basal to the extreme like it is for lost lake type has the notched and lobbed basal area like the haw river description and oppisite beveling i seen pics of
I'm so confused at times trying to ID points . I am a newb at this anyways.😃😃😃
A similar tool here is often refered to as a gouge. Not that that is what it is or was used for.
I found these two recently while hunting arrowheads. They aren't arrowheads but evidently are old artifacts and could have been indian owned...One is what I believe is a flint for a rifle. It is shaped right and is the right size. It was found a couple of feet from the button which dates from the late 1700's.
When I was in 2nd and 3rd grade we lived on a little Forest Service station up in NE California just a few miles from the Oregon border and Cedarville.
Being as there was 5 of us and we ran around all over the place we eventually had a pretty good collection of Indian artifacts. We never actively hunted them but picked them up as we found them. Who knows what happened to them by now. I do remember trying (unsuccessfully) to make my own arrows using a few we picked up.
FIL broke his left arm wensday night Been helping him and his gf out Box of milk bones for my dogs and Karen Gave me these with about 25 yrs of dust on em. Still tried to give me money I'm like you have paid in things that mean way more to me than money FIL just chuckled when I said that.
Got out and walked some ground today (some oracles should try it). Found a rough, heavy blade, just out on an initial fact finding mission to scout the soil conditions.
*included the blade in the pic with many other useless, unrelated items so as to appear more turdlike to the Colonel Angus crowd.
I have not hunted much lately but here are a few recent ones.
Love that black flint with the light swirl in it! Never find that in the local areas that I hunt. Sometimes we find a dark red swirl/splotch in gray flint here. GW
Got out and walked some ground today (some oracles should try it). Found a rough, heavy blade, just out on an initial fact finding mission to scout the soil conditions.
*included the blade in the pic with many other useless, unrelated items so as to appear more turdlike to the Colonel Angus crowd.
You had some salted peanuts in your treat bag today???? Wtf.......
Whenever some d-bag posts something on 24Campolicious...they always include a knife, 3 fingers of bourbon, a pistol they ain't shot in 31 yrs all on a fox pelt.
Just being stoopid that's all. I was told I need to try and fit in better around here.
Well since slumlord didn't share any of his f u c king peanuts with me today. Here are my Charlie Brown Halloween bag finds for the day. Don't know how the strange shaped rocks got in the bag.... Best find was the radiation looking deer ceramic thing that looks like some 4 yr old girl made with grandma at ceramics and gave to her father 19yrs ago. Out in the middle of a feild for some reason
Whenever some d-bag posts something on 24Campolicious...they always include a knife, 3 fingers of bourbon, a pistol they ain't shot in 31 yrs all on a fox pelt.
Just being stoopid that's all. I was told I need to try and fit in better around here.
Hahahahaa!!! Visual stimulus...
I ain't got no booze in the house Got a big ole fox squirrel tail And bunch of other dead animal body part stuff hanging around, none shot off bait either.
As I take a deep draw of Paladin cherry flavored tobacco from a generous bowl.....I commend you on your overtly unneccessary addition of unrelated trinkets that draw me away from the actual focus of the intended subject. Such a busy photo, I must retire to my study and lay my hands upon my favorite Louis L'Amour classic. The look and feel of hand-tooled saddle leather takes me away.
You Tennessee boys have taken arrowhead hunting to whole new level. I guess I'll just give it up, and let y'all have all my secret spots.
Haha. You wish.
Ha!!
I brought that up today. Ever since you posted those hafted blunts...i think your injuns were kin to ours.
Yeah, it was all one big happy hunting ground back then. No state lines, no army base, no I-24, and I bet those Injuns were some happy campers. All the streams around here that have old campsites either drain into the Red River, or flow west into the Cumberland at LBL. I would say that all the Indians were pretty much connected around these parts.
That is a fantastic looking blade Slumlord! I have looked for several hours the last couple of days and found a double handful of flakes and broken pottery pieces but nothing that even resembles a worked piece of flint. It is kind of frustrating....There have been a lot of points found where I look, but they are few and far between.
We spent time of our time today doing some spot checks on new areas. We sometimes hypothesize about certain geographical features and will go do a some field truthing. Usually just a wandering bird walk to look for frquency of debitage.
If we find flakes, we make a mental bookmark and come back at a later date. I told renegade when we burn out the main spots, we will fall back on these areas to grid them better. Mind you, we're finding flint flakes in 'pure dirt' there is no other competing media to visually distract. So if within acres and acres of brown soil and scattered flint flakes, it's a given that there's artifacts present.
We've done random walks thru virgin ground and come up with some fantastic pieces. Mainly because all of our competition only hunts the most likely know spots. I.E. = near the bend in the creek; on the bluff...yadda yadda yadda
We have some lazy other artifact hunters that we know and all they do hit the main spots, find a few brokes and complain. lol
Ask him about how he found a big Benton blade one day 20 ft off a road. Hahahahaa!!!!
My fav was "those two guys" who walked out in the field and had a pow-wow for five mins about how they were gonna conduct their search for the day. They broke and took their paths, I went over to where they were standing and found a 3-1/2" pink Eva amongst all their foot prints and tootsie roll wrappers.
Ask him about how he found a big Benton blade one day 20 ft off a road. Hahahahaa!!!!
My fav was "those two guys" who walked out in the field and had a pow-wow for five mins about how they were gonna conduct their search for the day. They broke and took their paths, I went over to where they were standing and found a 3-1/2" pink Eva amongst all their foot prints and tootsie roll wrappers.
Sharkey and fozzy bear ????? Dueling Janitors with 4 yr degrees
Neither had a clue Look down while arrowhead hunting......
Where I'm hunting is what we think was a couple of camp sites. They are about 300 yards apart and both have given up some good points . The land is sandy with water close by. The two areas where we find the flint are relatively small. Each is maybe 50 yards square. Outside that area we don't find flint at all. We never know what is going to show up next. Along with the points and buckets of flint flakes we have found Hammer stones, a couple of buttons from the late 1700's, a piece of pipe stem and a game piece that looks like a hard clay marble.
Could find arrowheads, grapeshot, large cal conical rifle bullets, small glass stoppered medication bottles, large cents, military buttons, colonial pipe stems, and a other relic hunters we knew found a couple of cannon balls.
Had a second spot near Tybee and Skidaway Island, a highway cut; could find Megladon teeth.
Renegade, looks as if we need to start paying closer attention to smooth, out-of-geological place smooth rock. Like that smooth red squared rock we found immmediately after the 'quicksand' episode.
After cleaning out some of the brokes from last year's tool bag....and scrubbing off the dried mud. I found that one to be a banded slate winged bannerstone.
Renegade, looks as if we need to start paying closer attention to smooth, out-of-geological place smooth rock. Like that smooth red squared rock we found immmediately after the 'quicksand' episode.
After cleaning out some of the brokes from last year's tool bag....and scrubbing off the dried mud. I found that one to be a banded slate winged bannerstone.
I used to get lots of arrowheads, and one stone axe and a piece of Indian jewelry, when I lived in Georgia, down along the Oconee River. Haven't found one flint flake up here in the NC mountains.
Love to go arrowhead hunting.
Some buddies of mine were looking around in the river right there in the town of Milledgeville, they found a clay pipe that was in the form of a duck, about 4 inches long. A setting duck with a hole in his back. This piece was museum quality. They were smoking pot in it one night and it dropped to the floor and broke into a thousand pieces. A thousand years old, and, a thousand pieces.
These are Charlie Brown peices from behind the house about 300 yds from the cumberland river along the high banks along the flood plain Lot of it is definitely not sourced from anywhere around here Ancient trade route stuff. Everything from Dalton/trans paleo stuff to missisippian stuff.
Got a obsidian point found down back their that is in my shadow box of better stuff. Alot t of the more colorful and varied material stuff in the shadow box is from their.
Obsidian definitely is not from anywhere east of the rockies.
Point on lower left corner is obsidian
Some "better" stuff St Charles dovetail, Big red thumb scraper Tiger striped thumb scraper dovetail touching tiger striped scraper 3 bottom center peices All from down back also
Dalton fish tail in top center was a heartbreaker when I picked it up And it had what looks like an impact fracture Still a nice peice to find.
Other than the penny in the picture, you guys ever find any copper tools, knives, hatched heads etc.? Wondered if anything from the copper mines in the U.P. of Mich had gotten down there? Have a couple of friends that have found that stuff up here, Mich/Wi. border country. Have also found stone arrow/spear heads.
Hunts the big arrow head in the top pic of your last post, is there a name for that type of head? I have one just like it but diffrent color, from Tenn.
Keep posting your finds guys! Love this stuff. I can go out and find flint flakes and pieces of pottery most any time, but finding part of an actual point or blade, much less a whole one, is a very rare occurrence.
Found a decent blade and a rough triangle point. Some tips and alot of broken knife/blade sections in the area I was looking. Went up the hill to where slumlord was He said the blade was a tn river blade Best blade or knife I have found so far.
This thread is great, I'm envious of y'all finding such awesome points. I know nothing about artifacts but enjoy looking for them. Maybe one of you could identify what I've been finding. Nearly all have come from the same location about 10 acres or from my lawn. Location is Ozark Plateau region of northeast Oklahoma, Adair County. I'm sure most of it is nothing but if it looks worked I pick it up.
Looked it up onn projectile point.com Pretty sure it is a "jeff" matches description and pics in Lancelet catagory to a T. paleo / transistional paleo piece.
We went out breifly today. Found a couple Charlie Brown things myself Slumlord found that Kirk pt. Got called into town by the wife FIL health issues Viscous circle of stuff medical wise.
Interested in this flint detector you have Hahahaaa!!
Here are a couple of points from central FL. They were from a field my Great Uncle used to farm, near a small creek. Wondering what kind of points are these? Are they from different periods? They are about 2 1/2 inches long.
Some gameballs, some are rounded ball-n-socket animal bones. Others clay and some ground smooth limestone. Probably more Woodland or Mississippian era. Not entirely sure. Encounter them every now and then walking the miles of rows.
Kinda forgot what that small Clovis looked like. Black one right below it. Is that some type of Dalton? I wish that fishtail dalton I found didntbhave that side impact strike. The one in the lower left Is that kinda oval midsection thru its overall length.
I have something that looks like it Kinda like a lance I have always thought it is a lerma. so many gawt damm nuances and similarities Makes it hard to id stuff sometime
I need ya to take a look at that haw river I think i got The fine serrations on both beveled edges lead me to think that is what it is.
This id thing kicks my arse sometimes.
I always make fun of the Pokemon game balls But those look like museum peices almost.
Several years ago my son found one of those round ball shaped stones about 2" in diameter and all white in color. I forget now where but read somewhere that his was probably an old mill stone.
Kinda forgot what that small Clovis looked like. Black one right below it. Is that some type of Dalton? I wish that fishtail dalton I found didntbhave that side impact strike. The one in the lower left Is that kinda oval midsection thru its overall length.
I have something that looks like it Kinda like a lance I have always thought it is a lerma. so many gawt damm nuances and similarities Makes it hard to id stuff sometime
I lean towards it being a Greenbriar. Hard to come by around here, nonetheless.
Dad found one really nice Clovis base. He was digging topaz in a wash in Mason county Texas when he found it.
He also had about 1/2 dozen clay balls about the diameter of a nickel that came out of an old occupation site on the Atascosa river in Soith Texas. Not far from where he was raised. Next time I’m over to archaeologist son’s house I need to pull out some of the stuff dad found. Son has his collection now. . Get some pics and post. He had some pretty awesome stuff.
3 more today. The little translucent stunner is a right purty sumbish. It has little veins, or roots, or some damn thing in it. Kinda hard to get a real good pic of it.
I'm a long ways from the Yellowstone, but I'm just down the road from Agate, CO. Although Agate is not actually named after the rocks. It was shortened to Agate from A-Gate. The gate to the cattle shipping stockyards on the railroad had a big 'A' on it, and the railroad folks called the whole area A-Gate......just a short local area history lesson.
It's too bad this great thread gets buried so quick and so deep behind political threads and 'ketchup' threads.
I barely see the use in myself continuing to contribute to it.
Nice points btw Huntsman.
Please continue!
I am in Sweden in an area largely lacking any possibility to find arrowheads, and I can't tell you how interesting I find your posts and this entire thread!
Keep showing us your finds, and telling us about them -- I have learned a LOT!
I've never seen anything like the moss agate point, beautiful!
I agree with jpb, this is a great thread and one I always look for. I hope that those in areas where artifacts can be found will continue to post them.
I can't find much around here worth posting. There are a couple of places where I can usually find a handful of flakes and a few small pieces of pottery, but even a broken point is very rare. It has been years since I found a complete point, but I keep looking.
Had found a couple of nice points out of that stuff. They are rare and more valuable!
Barry,
There’s also a variety of moss Agate that came off the old Woodard ranch south of Alpine Tx. I was there once in 1965. Dad used to agate hunt there a bunch when I was a little kid. Seem to remember them calling theirs "plume" agate.
Had found a couple of nice points out of that stuff. They are rare and more valuable!
Barry,
There’s also a variety of moss Agate that came off the old Woodard ranch south of Alpine Tx. I was there once in 1965. Dad used to agate hunt there a bunch when I was a little kid. Seem to remember them calling theirs "plume" agate.
That's some pretty stuff!
After doing some more research I think what Don has is THIS stuff...
Here are a couple of points from central FL. They were from a field my Great Uncle used to farm, near a small creek. Wondering what kind of points are these? Are they from different periods? They are about 2 1/2 inches long.
Thanks!
GW
Hey, I am hoping one or two of you knowledgeable guys can tell me about these two points. I am wondering what period they are, and what they are called? Any input would be great.
Updated shadow box Took out several peices and replaced with better ones from hunts so far this year. Me and slumlord are Just getting started this year Feilds been plowed but it rained yet on em. All our finds this spring have been from feilds that got plowed Last fall and sat for the winter. Should be some good chyt out their.
Im about 1/2way to another shadow box This 1st one is gonna be as much grade 7 to 10 stuff as I can replace into it this yr Then get the 2nd done up when the feilds get hard to hunt.
Here are a couple of points from central FL. They were from a field my Great Uncle used to farm, near a small creek. Wondering what kind of points are these? Are they from different periods? They are about 2 1/2 inches long.
Thanks!
GW
Hey, I am hoping one or two of you knowledgeable guys can tell me about these two points. I am wondering what period they are, and what they are called? Any input would be great.
Thanks!
GW
Google bottom notched arrowheads from fla A site called projectile points will come Up
Here are a couple of points from central FL. They were from a field my Great Uncle used to farm, near a small creek. Wondering what kind of points are these? Are they from different periods? They are about 2 1/2 inches long.
Thanks!
GW
Hey, I am hoping one or two of you knowledgeable guys can tell me about these two points. I am wondering what period they are, and what they are called? Any input would be great.
Thanks!
GW
I can try, I can go through my Overstreet catalog.
Culbreath is The other I just seen on the site like slumlord said.
Hey man youre supposed to be like the campfire dickheads and pretend you didn't already see my answer to him and try to take all the glory like it was you all along that found it and then 3 of your campfire cheerleaders chime and give you high praise while you again bask in the glow.
Culbreath is The other I just seen on the site like slumlord said.
Hey man youre supposed to be like the campfire dickheads and pretend you didn't already see my answer to him and try to take all the glory like it was you all along that found it and then 3 of your campfire cheerleaders chime and give you high praise while you again bask in the glow.
Right?
hahaha
What????? I have never seen things like that transpire on here What type of people would do such a thing. Geez.....
Updated shadow box Took out several peices and replaced with better ones from hunts so far this year. Me and slumlord are Just getting started this year Feilds been plowed but it rained yet on em. All our finds this spring have been from feilds that got plowed Last fall and sat for the winter. Should be some good chyt out their.
Im about 1/2way to another shadow box This 1st one is gonna be as much grade 7 to 10 stuff as I can replace into it this yr Then get the 2nd done up when the feilds get hard to hunt.
Dayom nice Rene. Does the Slumster ever help you find any?
That same form was also used to anchor nets, Both for fishing, and for rabbit drives. Have one about the size of an elongated grapefruit that came from Montana.
Yall are lucky to have that, Slumlord. Great stuff.
Us kids never found one working the plowed fields in flat Polk Co land Grandad had in east Texas. I found a few in west and central Tx and SE NM Sacramento Mts years ago. Dayom few and far between.
Sure seems to be a goldmine of artifacts from the south country, we sure dont get those kinds of finds up here where I live, I wonder if the soil down there makes it more suitable for finding these gems.
Had found a couple of nice points out of that stuff. They are rare and more valuable!
Barry,
There’s also a variety of moss Agate that came off the old Woodard ranch south of Alpine Tx. I was there once in 1965. Dad used to agate hunt there a bunch when I was a little kid. Seem to remember them calling theirs "plume" agate.
That's some pretty stuff!
After doing some more research I think what Don has is THIS stuff...
The branching patterns in that agate resembles the branching growth patterns herples simplex causes in blinding by scarring "dendritic corneal ulcers" if not treated with toxic antivirals quickly enough, Barry.
I get depressed every time i look at this thread. Dayom id like to find some nice points like yall have tons of.
I found most of mine as a kid, digging through pea gravel loads from creekbeds in east Tx or in the boonies of W Texas around Big Springs.
I found a few in mts of NM archery hunting but i got too tall to see the small ones. My wife has found several around Independance Creek that flows into the pecos river. The Indians camped in the Independance Creek valley around a big set called Caroline Springs which years ago produced 9 million gallons a day.
A patient owned the ranch for years before selling it to the Texas Nature Conservancy.
Huge areas of flat rock the springs flowed of at places have many round holes worn down in the rock from eons of grain grinding.
Updated shadow box Took out several peices and replaced with better ones from hunts so far this year. Me and slumlord are Just getting started this year Feilds been plowed but it rained yet on em. All our finds this spring have been from feilds that got plowed Last fall and sat for the winter. Should be some good chyt out their.
Im about 1/2way to another shadow box This 1st one is gonna be as much grade 7 to 10 stuff as I can replace into it this yr Then get the 2nd done up when the feilds get hard to hunt.
Dayom nice Rene. Does the Slumster ever help you find any?
I'm his padawon.
He makes me give him points all the time. Hahaha!!!
Sure seems to be a goldmine of artifacts from the south country, we sure dont get those kinds of finds up here where I live, I wonder if the soil down there makes it more suitable for finding these gems.
I assign our luck to the Karst topography here. Plenty of springs, caves, cliff overhangs, lots of surface water features, old sinkholes that may have been mud wallows and watering holes. Fair, warm climate during archaic period.
Knowing how to read landscapes and try to hypothesize the geomorphology of the land 10,000 yrs ago helps. It takes A LOT of scouting and exploratory walking to prove new sites. Sometimes a site may only be a 1/2 acre. You can miss it by a 100 yards and say to yourself "there ain't shytt here" and go on down the road with a frownie face.
Yes. I was once helping a buddy on a pronghorn outing where we were traversing essentially a monoculture of low sagebrush. Nothing at all there to suggest it might be a gathering spot. No topography for shelter a water source. Suddenly we were finding points, chips, drills, and scrapers. In a couple hundred yards of the same looking topography and vegetation we were completely out of it.
I found a new site last week we have drove by alot And always wondered about Confirmed stuff was there
Problem is keeping an new site away from others As soon as someone sees ya on it Word spreads
Funny thing Is most of our recent new sites are Just so blatantly Obvious terrain wise, it makes ya,think the average schmuck is just Hunting in places that they have been told about and never found Themselves
This whole hobby is some secret squirrel shyt , an eye for terrain and leg work.
My wife or her mom found the round white "bowling ball". I found the big flat grinding rock' 23 in long and about 50 lbs. It has a concave shallow bowl in the upper surface from having grain ground in
The 12 lb, 12 in long rock at the bottom i found on a 12 ft x 12 ft semiflat rock near Alpine. It is a pounding/grinding rock with one end broken off. It has flat sides 3x5 inches thick and wide. The end was also used and the huge rock i found it on had a few big grinding holes in it that were about 8 inches in diameter and almost a foot deep. I was hunting and stood my weatherby in the hole and took a pic with the buttstock down in the grinding hole. A phone error lost that picture. Dayom.
Every point I've found has been around a water source, either a creek or a spring. As slumlord says, if there is a cave, cliff, or overhang, it's usually a good place to look. I have found quite a few here on my farm, as I have a large depression with a rock bluff, which has a spring coming out of one end, and a large cave system at the other. It must have been a major campsite, because there has been a ton of stuff found here, most before I bought the farm. It was listed in an book on the county, as being a known campsite. Actually, there are quite a few around me, some I used to find stuff when I was a kid, but access to all of them has dried up over the years.
The history books called "Kaintuck" the "Dark and Bloody Ground," supposedly because the Injuns were always fighting over it. It was said that few lived here, but that's BS, as there are too many artifact sites here in my part of the state, which prove they did live here. I know of one farm where there were so many arrowheads, that the people who owned it used to pay a man to pick them up so they wouldn't puncture the tractor tires. He supposedly dumped them in a creek. One local arrowhead hunter sold thousands of dollars of his collection to a man out of Nashville.
Yep, lots of stuff here, providing you can get permission to hunt, and have the time to do so.
Sure seems to be a goldmine of artifacts from the south country, we sure dont get those kinds of finds up here where I live, I wonder if the soil down there makes it more suitable for finding these gems.
I assign our luck to the Karst topography here. Plenty of springs, caves, cliff overhangs, lots of surface water features, old sinkholes that may have been mud wallows and watering holes. Fair, warm climate during archaic period.
Knowing how to read landscapes and try to hypothesize the geomorphology of the land 10,000 yrs ago helps. It takes A LOT of scouting and exploratory walking to prove new sites. Sometimes a site may only be a 1/2 acre. You can miss it by a 100 yards and say to yourself "there ain't shytt here" and go on down the road with a frownie face.
Are the points from local sources I wonder? because I have a real nice spear point that comes from a source several hundred miles away I am told, very interesting.
Almost all we've found is from local source rock. Chert nodules embedded within St Louis and/or St Genevieve Limestone formations. These are formations usually 300ft thick. Accessed from outcroppings or at the base of bluffs along the rivers. Liberated by ancient man from exposed rock walls or salvaged from creek nodules. Some are heat treated from being buried under coals. This gives the parent nodule a cooked, glassy composition. Easier for concodial fracture and final flaking.
Obviously there is some 'trade rock' near the river systems. Renegade has a place that has some different pieces and colorations. Pinks and oranges. Those can also be attained by further heat treating techniques.
Barry, wife and i found a few many years ago just SE of Rogers Ruins just NW of Timberon. We also found a couple around the West Side Rd east and high above Almorgordo. There is a big ranch water tank by the road where springs were and an old corral.
As many miles as i snuck areound archery and rifle hunting those ridges and canyons years ago and sneaking and watching my footing and keeping an eye out for points i only found a couple.
Almost all we've found is from local source rock. Chert nodules embedded within St Louis and/or St Genevieve Limestone formations. These are formations usually 300ft thick. Accessed from outcroppings or at the base of bluffs along the rivers. Liberated by ancient man from exposed rock walls or salvaged from creek nodules. Some are heat treated from being buried under coals. This gives the parent nodule a cooked, glassy composition. Easier for concodial fracture and final flaking.
Obviously there is some 'trade rock' near the river systems. Renegade has a place that has some different pieces and colorations. Pinks and oranges. Those can also be attained by further heat treating techniques.
I’d like to hear some more about the “heat treating” techniques and see some examples.
I’ve found several arrowheads and scrapers on a small knoll on the family farm about 500 yards from the Pearl River. It’s within 100 yards of a spring that my father said had been boxed in for drinking water when he was a kid working the fields in the ‘20’s. I guess that spring has been around for centuries...and.it’s still there.
Thanks slumlord To my knowledge, virtually any points found locally are "trade points" I could be wrong but dont think so, they seem to come from area's south in the rocky mtns, as trade was generally north/south.
I think also here we have the land ravished by fire every 100 years so that may make the landscape... unsuitable?? for finding points in large numbers, I wonder what role that type of fire would play in point hunting, what do you guys think??. Around the lakes here is where they are found but, still hard to find.
Take the chert nodules. (some call it flint) Nodules around here are about softball size on average. Almost round to egg shaped concretionss of limestone.
It is hypothesized that they would bury several about 8-12 inches under a fire pit, ring or hearth-whatever. Do as normal and just leave the stones under there for a few days while and everyday fire was used above for general purposes.
After the desired time, they nods were dug up and they were fractured by concussion to reveal the spalls they needed to proceed with a workable flake and so on.
Similar in theory like our local historical iron-ore furnaces from the 1850s here. Hematite enriched limestone was heated until it melted like glass, the glassy slag went to the spoils pile, the pig iron flowed into the ingots.
Around here, many gravel roads have blue glassy slag from the 1800s industrial waste spoils.
Here is a large hafted chopper with what help. The top edge reveals a glassy sheen, this is dry right off the bookshelf. This is the first thing I could grab without digging through boxes and buckets.
Take the chert nodules. (some call it flint) Nodules around here are about softball size on average. Almost round to egg shaped concretionss of limestone.
It is hypothesized that they would bury several about 8-12 inches under a fire pit, ring or hearth-whatever. Do as normal and just leave the stones under there for a few days while and everyday fire was used above for general purposes.
After the desired time, they nods were dug up and they were fractured by concussion to reveal the spalls they needed to proceed with a workable flake and so on.
Similar in theory like our local historical iron-ore furnaces from the 1850s here. Hematite enriched limestone was heated until it melted like glass, the glassy slag went to the spoils pile, the pig iron flowed into the ingots.
Around here, many gravel roads have blue glassy slag from the 1800s industrial waste spoils.
Here is a large hafted chopper with what help. The top edge reveals a glassy sheen, this is dry right off the bookshelf. This is the thing I could grab with digging through boxes and buckets.
Hope this helps
Gawd I remember when he found that I about chyt my pants.
Hit the transition site today. Mixed strata due to commercial operation and leveling. Late paleo reduction blanks, preforms, butchering/processing tools and scrapers. Early archaic pieces, large corner-notch Kirk, partial drill stem.
ho-hum, waiting on the new holland drill to show up *soon*. More to come.
I've picked up so much stuff last few days; it would take me an hour to scrub it all up and post it.
Figured since it was drying up that you'd been out looking. I found a piece that had been worked a few days ago while turkey hunting. Post some pics for us.
Took me 35 minutes to get in a spot to go turkey hunting yesterday morning in the dark normally take 10 minutes ....
Had to get my auto accident stoved up ass out and do something Heard about 5-6 birds gobbling their fool heads off. Fuggers been giving a free PHD from morons calling at em with every known call sold at Wal-Mart, probably been getting busted by all the Elmer fudds scaring em off feilds from hundreds of yards away in broad daylight also. Found this small broke tip triangle point going out to get decoy and call it a day around 1130..
Gotta try and get out with slumlord He probably will outpace the fugg outta me..
And I ain't bending for chyt to examine every peice
We both went to the fields today, got 2 with skeeter bites on em. Some tools. Sort of disappointing day, spent all our time dodging other peoples' footprints.
Apparently over the weekend, Saturday must have been National Bring Your Crank Smoking Girlfriend To an Arrowhead Field Day.
Place was littlered with cigg butts and size six footie prints. Not ryhme or method to their search, looked like seagull wanderings or someone high on controlled subs. Probably the 'weekend warriors' too hit the fields. Have to wonder if they actually have permission from the landowner.
Still have places close to the vest we can hit. These were just the spots that are easily accessed and widely known.
Just have to hope for a hard rain and do the ol 'reboot'. A good 15mm of rain dumped out of t-storm makes everything all good as a re-plow!!!
Took me 35 minutes to get in a spot to go turkey hunting yesterday morning in the dark normally take 10 minutes ....
Had to get my auto accident stoved up ass out and do something Heard about 5-6 birds gobbling their fool heads off. Fuggers been giving a free PHD from morons calling at em with every known call sold at Wal-Mart, probably been getting busted by all the Elmer fudds scaring em off feilds from hundreds of yards away in broad daylight also. Found this small broke tip triangle point going out to get decoy and call it a day around 1130..
Gotta try and get out with slumlord He probably will outpace the fugg outta me..
And I ain't bending for chyt to examine every peice
Took me 35 minutes to get in a spot to go turkey hunting yesterday morning in the dark normally take 10 minutes ....
Had to get my auto accident stoved up ass out and do something Heard about 5-6 birds gobbling their fool heads off. Fuggers been giving a free PHD from morons calling at em with every known call sold at Wal-Mart, probably been getting busted by all the Elmer fudds scaring em off feilds from hundreds of yards away in broad daylight also. Found this small broke tip triangle point going out to get decoy and call it a day around 1130..
Gotta try and get out with slumlord He probably will outpace the fugg outta me..
And I ain't bending for chyt to examine every peice
Be a high grader with a stick Hahahaaa!!!!
Lmao
Vienna sausage pinky finger
Vienna,s...... food of the gods.... Hahahaaa!!!! Had ta Yakuza the end of my right pinky in front of the boss...
One of my mules screwed up a black market shipment of Pokemon cards. I had ta own it......
I didnt get single prop in 24 hours for several decent kirk points and blades.
9,000 yr old Beaver Lake arrowhead pics? Or which anti-sieze lug nut lube should we ponder? Shouldn't a real farmer already know that sheeit?
go ahead and post up a picture of that unfluted Cumberland man. James jr. Will recognize it when he sees it I bet. We don't find anything worth a damn anyways.....
our fines just cover the broad spectrum of every archaeological age back to 11 or 12 thousand years ago, what we find ain't [bleep]............
I didnt get single prop in 24 hours for several decent kirk points and blades.
9,000 yr old Beaver Lake arrowhead pics? Or which anti-sieze lug nut lube should we ponder? Shouldn't a real farmer already know that sheeit?
go ahead and post up a picture of that unfluted Cumberland man. James jr. Will recognize it when he sees it I bet. We don't find anything worth a damn anyways.....
our fines just cover the broad spectrum of every archaeological age back to 11 or 12 thousand years ago, what we find ain't [bleep]............
the ketchup, and anti sieze threads will fall to the wayside too if ole mrs blue waffles comes back
Found all these digging in a bank of an old stream bed in central Texas in an old camp. Camp debris was over 10 feet deep where I was...
It was layers of layers of stuff about 4 feet deep. Epic stuff. Found this stuff in an hour digging the bank...
What is the seashell shaped tool in the mide? Top right small is a very small point found last year on the surface on a mountain in SW New Mexico...
Any info on this stuff?
Top center is a Pedernales point. (Perfect, thin perds can go for $100 per inch.)
Bottom right with the broken ear is a Castroville point.
Not sure what the notched one in center is. I've seen gaming stones similar to that, but they were rounded rocks with the notches etched into edges. Used for keeping tabs on Indian gambling games.
He wants everyone to fawn over his awesome finds. And if he don't get the responses he desires, he chits on a great picture thread with bullchit like that.....
He wants everyone to fawn over his awesome finds. And if he don't get the responses he desires, he chits on a great picture thread with bullchit like that.....
Got it.
Good thing I'm just interested in seeing what all kind of neat stuff people have and find.
You don't have to be a hero. Just enjoy the hobby and post what pics you want to. Or don't.
He wants everyone to fawn over his awesome finds. And if he don't get the responses he desires, he chits on a great picture thread with bullchit like that.....
Originally Posted by huntsman22
He wants everyone to fawn over his awesome finds. And if he don't get the responses he desires, he chits on a great picture thread with bullchit like that.....
Keep posting your dust and chips and occasional acorn.
He wants everyone to fawn over his awesome finds. And if he don't get the responses he desires, he chits on a great picture thread with bullchit like that.....
Originally Posted by huntsman22
He wants everyone to fawn over his awesome finds. And if he don't get the responses he desires, he chits on a great picture thread with bullchit like that.....
Keep posting your dust and chips and occasional acorn.
Neat finds there. My guess is the clam shell unit is some type of scraper aimed at shredding the target material. Not seen anything similar around here. Same shape, but not serrated like that.
All I've picked up lately is raw material (obsidian) in my back lot. Makes a lot of noise when I hit it with the mower.
Wish I had a good arrowhead field close by to hunt. My dad goes all the time but he’s retired and usually goes weekday mornings when I’m at work. Always cool to see the different stuff you guys find in different parts of the country.
This is one that was found recently in the food plot where I look occasionally. Unfortunately it wasn't me that found it. I think it is a small drill. It isn't broken, it's just made small. It almost looks like it has a depth control on it with the bulges on each side.
Been looking for a big jug to toss my flint chips in. Bosses wife found a couple in a shop in Denver. Texted me a pic and asked if one of them would do. That big green one turned my crank, so she grabbed it for me.....
With our present heat wave, the chore level has slowed a bit. Grass is just sitting there and next winter's wood is in. With some vacant time yesterday, I went out in the shade and hammered out 3 or 4 points and roughed out a couple bifaces that I'll work down later. I'd forgotten how relaxing and mind emptying that endeavor can be. Skills were a bit rusty as was my patience. Will put up a pic or two when I accumulate a few more. Going out for a snail paced camping trip late this week and into the weekend, so I'll have time to bang away on a few rocks. Exhausted my supply of good obsidian, and I'm heading out shortly to gather a bucket full.
Have a good one, and do look down once in a while,
Spoke with a professor in San Angelo about a point I'd found. He indicted that "generally speaking," crude points were newer in age than really artistically made points. His reasoning was that in native American cultures, there might only be one or two really good knappers in a village and the rest of the village traded meat and goods for his points. Once steel became available from trade with whites, knapping sort of went by the wayside and the really crude looking points were cobbled together by hunters who weren't really good at it, but needed something to put at the end of an arrow in a hurry. He also suggested that often times really crude looking points were burial artifacts. They were rough shaped with the belief that the brave would need something quick in the afterlife. They didn't take the time to spruce up the points and knives they left for him.
My thoughts are those that lived a relatively easy life had time to be a bit artistic. I.e plains locales, along the Columbia with abundant salmon, and here in Oregon those around Klamath Lake and the river. The Paiute tribe that lived out in Oregon's desert has to work hard for a living and didn't invest too much in the arts.
Nice work up there Butchlambert1. What's the shaft material?
My thoughts are those that lived a relatively easy life had time to be a bit artistic. I.e plains locales, along the Columbia with abundant salmon, and here in Oregon those around Klamath Lake and the river. The Paiute tribe that lived out in Oregon's desert has to work hard for a living and didn't invest too much in the arts.
Nice work up there Butchlambert1. What's the shaft material?
I don't know. The fellow showed me a rock with a hole in it. He pushed the shaft through for the final shape. He was feom SE Okla., but I met him when he lived in Blossom, Texas. I have quite a lot of beadwork from my Uncle Jonesy, We are Choctaw. Jonesy was a bead worker and fancy dancer.
About all that shows up in areas I have access to, after a good rain, are pottery shards and flint chips. Yesterday after a hard rain on a plowed field, I picked up the first whole point I've found in years. It is also the smallest point I've ever found. The picture shows it sitting on a penny.
That is tiny indeed, and it's not easy material to work at that scale.
I will have some time on a camping/fishing trip this weekend and hope to bang out a few obsidian points. Knocked out 4 or 5 last evening. A little frustrating though as I had about a 5 inch point 95% complete and snapped it in half. Fortunately, I'm not paid by the hour.
About all that shows up in areas I have access to, after a good rain, are pottery shards and flint chips. Yesterday after a hard rain on a plowed field, I picked up the first whole point I've found in years. It is also the smallest point I've ever found. The picture shows it sitting on a penny.
Plains Indians used those small points quite a bit.
Harrell, Toyah, Garza, Perdiz points that small are pretty common.
Excellent workmanship in those.
People call them "bird points", but in reality, they hunted buffalo a men with them. Those are the true arrowheads.
Check out the one in the middle. Came out of a cliff shelter either on the Pedernales, or one of its adjoining creeks in Blanco county. ( Before the war).
I have enjoyed looking at the points that Huntsman22 posts and understand that they are likely the real "arrowhead". I guess the larger "arrowheads" that are found around here are much more likely to be blades or dart points. They are way too heavy and thick to be an actual arrowhead. I have used a flint point hunting a few times and even with a modern bow the head needs to be very light to be at all practical. I shot this point through the chest of an 8 point white tail deer. The arrow penetrated completely and the arrowhead suffered no damage at all. I was amazed. It is only about 1/8th inch thick. While I made this arrowhead myself, it is about the size of the smallest point I had ever found prior to the point I showed above.
I have only searched for Indian arrowheads for a minute. We were hiking while coyote hunting. I looked down and said there should be an arrowhead here somewhere.
The artifacts that myself and renegade50 no longer post pics of are late paleo to middle archaic to late-archaic periods. All darts, blade, atl-atl points. 3500bc- to 9000BC.
But some of the Big Sandy side-notch points and smaller Kirks c.n. are in the 'small' to 1" range. Those were slung not with a bow. They were used on eastern buffalo, elk, possibly ground sloth, deer, and other Halocene fauna. Mega-fauna were practically zero'd out by tail end of the post glacial p.
It's believed the bow wasnt adapted/discovered/adopted till about 800 AD.
My thoughts are that outside of ceremonial pieces from the Mississippian Era peoples, everyday flint fare from that period is simply ho-hum at best.
The artifacts that myself and renegade50 no longer post pics of are late paleo to middle archaic to late-archaic periods. All darts, blade, atl-atl points. 3500bc- to 9000BC.
But some of the Big Sandy side-notch points and smaller Kirks c.n. are in the 'small' to 1" range. Those were slung not with a bow. They were used on eastern buffalo, elk, possibly ground sloth, deer, and other Halocene fauna. Mega-fauna were practically zero'd out by tail end of the post glacial p.
It's believed the bow wasnt adapted/discovered/adopted till about 800 AD.
My thoughts are that outside of ceremonial pieces from the Mississippian Era peoples, everyday flint fare from that period is simply ho-hum at best.
When people find out that I knap arrowheads, they always want to show me the one they just found. I appreciate seeing all the found points because I can learn something from every one, but most don't believe me when I tell them that what they found isn't an arrowhead. I see where mistakes were made that I have made thousands of times myself and where faults in the stone caused problems for the knapper that had to be frustrating.
Those guys were mostly making tools that just needed to be serviceable and I imagine that it didn't take them long to knock one out. Seems most people that show me a point ask if I can beat that point. I can, but that native american didn't know we were in a race and he didn't have the materials to work with that I have either. I'd hate to go toe to toe with one of those guys using his tools and materials. He would beat me like a rented mule.
Slumlord, I've watched your posts and the pictures you show of the points on the ground prior to picking them up are fascinating. I'd never think to take a picture, I'd just grab it! I don't know where in TN you hunt, but in some of the pictures the land looks a lot like the soil a cousin of mine has on his place near the Harpeth River just outside Franklin. He wouldn't know an artifact if he stepped on it and it stuck in his foot. I've been wanting to go up and see if I can find a some of the grey stone used in that area.
Check out the one in the middle. Came out of a cliff shelter either on the Pedernales, or one of its adjoining creeks in Blanco county. ( Before the war).
Kaywoodie
Did everything in your display come from Texas? Looks identical to the artifacts that I have found here in southwest Missouri. Nice display. GW
Check out the one in the middle. Came out of a cliff shelter either on the Pedernales, or one of its adjoining creeks in Blanco county. ( Before the war).
Kaywoodie
Did everything in your display come from Texas? Looks identical to the artifacts that I have found here in southwest Missouri. Nice display. GW
Yes sir, all from either Travis or Blanco co Texas.
Kaywoodie, that little sharp bastard in the middle adds a new meaning to the word pain. I'd hate to have that little bastard driven into my chest or back. powdr
I'm not sure what the name of it is. Seems to show up a lot in points found in TN by Slumlord. He had a few posts a while back about heat treating nodules found in TN and I think that is what it was. It's grey, smooth and almost wet looking. Looks very clean compared to the butterscotch flint I've seen from GA. If it is called Dover Flint, that will give me a starting point. Thanks!
Went out and picked up some raw materials last week and had some fabrication time on a camping/fishing trip over the weekend. That is a Pepsi cap for scale. Cookie has not given me my weekly allowance yet, so there were no quarters to be had. Diameter on the cap is about 1 and 1/8"
They go into a cake tin to be given away once in a while. Put 1 or 2 a year in a shadow box and donate them to fundraisers. Just a mind emptying hobby that I'd not want to ruin by turning into a business.
Those look great! Not any raw materials around here. All my stone is ordered. The Native Americans must have traded far and wide to get the variety of stone that is found in the points locally.
rockinbbar, I know that you were asking 1 minute what he does with his points, but thought I say what I've done with mine.
I have given most all of them away to be used as a pendant on a ladies necklace. I usually put a sterling silver bail on the point but have used 14 K gold if it is going on a gold necklace. The point in the picture was used in a silent auction at a fundraiser for a young lady that was fighting cancer. It brought about $145.
Ladies love these things and I have given many to my wife's friends. Giving them away also keeps them from piling up around the house and that makes getting along with my wife a lot easier too.
1minute, I don't have a picture of the back side and that one has been given away. I can put the same kind of loop on the back of another one tomorrow when I get to my shop and take some pictures of it. It doesn't take but a minute to do and it lets you mount points that otherwise you couldn't because the stem of the point doesn't have any indention that would hold the wrap.
1minute, I don't have a picture of the back side and that one has been given away. I can put the same kind of loop on the back of another one tomorrow when I get to my shop and take some pictures of it. It doesn't take but a minute to do and it lets you mount points that otherwise you couldn't because the stem of the point doesn't have any indention that would hold the wrap.
Sorry this took me so long...
This is what it looks like from the back. It is a simple wrap at the point end that I fit as tight as I can to the point. I then make a run up the center of the back and do another wrap around the stem, coming back under the wire and making a loop at the end. I make sure that both ends are pointing at the point rather than pointing out where they might stick the wearer. I use some jewelers cement to lock the wire down and keep it from shifting. After it hardens, I'll take some round jewelers pliers, straighten up the wire a little and clean off some of the jeweler's cement so that it looks a little better. I'm no where near to being a jewelry maker and don't claim to be, but I haven't had one complaint yet and many people have several, so it must be working...
Thanks for the pics and description. Looks like and effective technique.
Not been out fishing or hunting much lately as our region is pretty heavily smoked up. That being, I've knocked out 35 or 40 obsidian points over the last week or so. Got some pleasant surprises from a few of the rocks I've broken up finding some that is quite transparent with lots of stripes. Need to come up with something to do with them other than just put them in tins the kid will toss when I buy the farm. I was thinking of drilling a hole in a few and epoxying in a stud one could run a small chain through. Having somewhat irregular surfaces though, drill might generate some breakage.
Made a pair of tiny ones today from mahogany obsidian (red) that would be suitable for earrings. Chipping out a point is a cinch, but pairs are a bear. The first is easy, but generating a second of the same style and dimension triples the effort.
Have a good one, and thanks again for the explanation and pics.
1minute, glad to do it. I've been thinking about asking a lady I know that makes jewelry if she wants to buy a bunch of points. Usually the only ones I sell are the ones I put gold wire on. Then I only sell it for enough to replace the gold wire. Most I give away...
Mathsr: For those interested in Indian Artifacts this is a link to a very interesting article on a huge Indian village just discovered with a photo of some just beautiful Indian arrowheads/points and other artifacts.
VarmintGuy, Thanks for the link. I had heard of that site being found. Hard to imagine a primitive encampment with more than 20,000 people living in it. Not very primitive to me.
I am still amazed at what all we don't know about what was going on before this continent was invaded by Europeans. From what I have read they are finding artifacts in some locations that predate the invasion by the Asians that were at one time thought to be first. They just keep on digging a little deeper and finding more, older stuff.
Yes, that site has been getting a lot of press lately. Given our relatively short presence on this continent, it's hard for us to think in terms of thousands of years. Worked a small farm back in West by God Virginia in my college days. It had already endured years of being well picked over, but one would still regularly find artifacts in our daily doings. It was a river bottom site also well serviced by heavily flowing springs and was either used for an extended period or supported a substantial population when it was occupied.
Still a lot history to be discovered out there.
Huntsman: You certainly encounter a variety of raw materials in your finds. Mostly obsidian and some chert in this region.
A friend recently aquired, through an estate sale, a flint (?) blade of some sort. About 10.5 inches long, 1.5 wide, and 'dagger' shaped, forlack of a better term, slight rounded on the wider end, with about a half inch point on that end. The only thing close, that I've found on google, is an 'ovoid blade'. Any way to ID / authenticate a piece like this? Can't get a picture at load, but could send some thru e-mail if anyone is interested.
My dad and I had a collection that had more points that that one. NICE points. Rare stuff...
But my dad turned into a drunk and sold them when he got hard up for money, about 1980.
I never forgave him for that. They weren't his to sell, and represented a large dedication of my life as well.
To top it off, the guy that bought them caught his wife running around on him a couple years later, and saw them in a restaurant eating, and shot her, her boyfriend, and his parents right there in the cafe, and then turned the shotgun on himself. All in front of his two children. They saw everything.
I need to get over to young son’s and get into dad’s stuff. Take a few pics and post em. A good bit of dad’s stuff came out of an old WPA site that was partially excavated in the depression. Only a couple of miles from the now famous Gault site.
I think dad did same thing Barry. Sold some. But he didn’t sell em all. I know last time I looked thru them there was an Afton I was looking for that wasnt there. That was prolly 20 years ago.
A question. Been knocking out a few points lately and rolling through thoughts on the variety of materials one sees (flint, obsidian, bone, agate, petrified wood, glass, etc). Would heavy duty clam shells be suitable for knapping smaller points? Being 7 hours from our Oregon coast, I don't have any on hand to break up? Don't know if they would fracture predictably or not.
Also wondering if sharks teeth were ever employed?
Salmonella: Thanks for posting those picks. Will have to give that museum a look when I get down that way. Lots of design ideas in those pics. Looks like if someone could think of it someone hammered one out.
Thank you folks for going through the trouble of posting your finds. This is a great thread. The reference links are helpful too. Only have a couple pieces my dad and I have found, but this is making me want to get out more and look down. We’re plowing a field next spring for the first time in 20yrs that they’ve been no-tilling. This has got me psyched to go over it afterwards.
A question. Been knocking out a few points lately and rolling through thoughts on the variety of materials one sees (flint, obsidian, bone, agate, petrified wood, glass, etc). Would heavy duty clam shells be suitable for knapping smaller points? Being 7 hours from our Oregon coast, I don't have any on hand to break up? Don't know if they would fracture predictably or not.
Also wondering if sharks teeth were ever employed?
Salmonella: Thanks for posting those picks. Will have to give that museum a look when I get down that way. Lots of design ideas in those pics. Looks like if someone could think of it someone hammered one out.
Mathsr,
Dad had a meglodon tooth that came out of a site somewhere in the midwest that had possIbly been used as some kind of digging instrument. Also there was a fossil sharks tooth found associated with the remains of the paleo era woman that was found at the Wilson-Leonard site, Williamson County Texas in 1983. Possibly an ornament. Only two I can think of off top of my head.
I don’t doubt that shells were used in times past. I know of some that have been found in an area I hunt in, but they have all been ground into useful shapes. I don’t think the shell material would flake very well.
I have broken a shark tooth trying to work it a little. I know that it doesn’t flake like flint. They were probably used as they were found. Most in this area are found in areas that have been excavated so I’m not really sure what kind of access a Native American would have had to prehistoric shark teeth.
This is a shell, probably from some type of whelk, that was found in an area that we have been finding a good many points and tools over the last few years. The area is more than 60 miles in from the coast. I don't know what this was used for, but the end appears to have been ground into a point. (Not my feet, hand or dog. I would take the dog though. He is a good one.)
Oh, and at one time I had a single projectile point that was fashioned from a pretty good size gar scale. I think it came outta the Nueces river area watershed. Down in Stxhunters AO. I need to look and see if I still have it somewhere. I think dad had several too!
I am aware shells were used ornamentally and widely traded, so would expect them to show up in unusual places. They are a little more degradable, however, than stoneware.
I remember breaking up some heavy clam shells on east coast vacations as a kid, but can't recall the fracture patterns. None of my breakage was in any way constructive though. Got in a bit of trouble when I left some live ones in my sand bucket that went into the trunk. The rig was quite aromatic for several days.
OK. Most know I'm more of a lazy cheater than a pot hunter, and my collection is pretty much self fabricated
Had considerable time available in the last couple weeks, so I sat in front of the garage and hammered out about 50 points mostly from obsidian. On our most recent fishing trip though, Cookie and I were walking an abandoned railway and found a couple shards of old glass about 1/4 inch thick. Dug out the smaller of the two this morning and set to work trying to bang out a point. Biggest chore was hammering off the square edges. Took about 2 1/2 hours to work it down, as I wanted to minimize breakage risk. OK work, but I could not get pressure flakes to travel as far as desired.
Just suspended it by our back door with monofilament and snapped a couple pics. I wanted it backed by nothing but the sky, but was too lazy to dig out a step ladder for the needed height. That being, not quite the artistic composition I envisioned.
Right at 4 1/4 inches tip to base.
We picked up some rocks last weekend north of town, and some of my obsidian points exhibit almost that same degree of transparency. Will try to get a similar pic of some of those in a day or two. A relaxing and cheap hobby, as the rocks are free and one can think of nothing else while working one up.
Broke (literally) out my second and larger shard of glass this morning with intentions of attempting another longish point. Five minutes into it with very little effort, I suddenly had three pieces in my hand. The trick is to chip off about a thousand pieces without really breaking anything. Given my luck, things got scaled back a bit. Lower left is 2 3/4" long. Out of glass now, so back to dipping into the obsidian bucket. For the firewood aholics, that's a chunk of seasoned lodge pole pine.
Rockingbbar:
Quote
I don't have the talent or the patience
Not really a talent. More of a developed skill that comes from making a lot of small rocks out of larger ones. Patience, however, does come into play.
Seems as though we've all been huddled inside lately with not much activity here. When there's a little sunshine, I put the lawn chair in front of the garage out of the wind and bang out a few points. Knocked out about 100+ in the last couple months, and with the exception of some fuel to pick up the rocks, costs have been minimal.
Here's a sampling with a few different colors of obsidian. Some are nearly transparent, but I can't come up with a simple method of capturing that in a photograph. There's a quarter in there somewhere for scale. I think the longest (left center row) is 5 1/2 inches. Must be a macho thing. One tries to chisel out the largest possible item from each chunk of stone as opposed to generating something that's smaller and functional. Still some occasional frustration when I have one 90% complete and break it in half, but I'm getting better about that. The garbage man will find some pieces, but never a whole one.
Have about 3 buckets full of rock left, so I've got something to fill the time in the near future. Still need to stop and tie some trout flies though.
Have a good one, and spring will be here in a couple months.
Good looking stuff 1minute! I'm afflicted with the same malady. I try to make the largest possible blade/point I can out of each rock. I think it comes from trying to thin the rock without reducing the perimeter dimensions. I'm not sure I'll ever get over it.
Went on a walk after a big rain with my dad last week. Found a few points and my first complete and intact buffalo skull, even has the teeth. All I could see of the skull was the teeth, had to dig it out of the mud with my hands, set it in the creek to wash out while we continued hunting. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/galleries/13426508/ndn-stuff
Went on a walk after a big rain with my dad last week. Found a few points and my first complete and intact buffalo skull, even has the teeth. All I could see of the skull was the teeth, had to dig it out of the mud with my hands, set it in the creek to wash out while we continued hunting. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/galleries/13426508/ndn-stuff
One on top looks paleo Like been made into a blunt Or a worn broken base
It looks like it was resharpened into the blunt shape. Closest thing I could match it up with in Overstreet’s is a Bat Cave. The little triangle point is perfect in every way but just a piece of grey chert. The clear mottled one is kinda a crude point, only one notch and kind of a knot where the other one would be, the forward edges are sharp and nicely shaped. Makes me wonder if he chose not to finish it due to some imperfection in the flint, or it was lost, or he used it like that, I’ll probably never know. The Calf Creek would have been a dandy if the tip wasn’t missing, one of my favorite forms.
The time before last I found a beautiful, no doubt about it, honest to god paleo made out of clear grey flint. Great parallel flaking, fluted base, nice oval cross section. But it was broken in half right in the middle. I looked and looked and couldn’t find the point.
If anyone is interested in buying all kinds of arrowheads and other items found surface hunting let me know. My wife’s uncle in the Missouri Bootheel would like to sell his collection. His collection dates back to when he returned home from Vietnam. When he returned home he walked his family farm to clear his mind. Their farm had a large sand ridge that ran through it and back then they would plow the ground every year. He has a considerable collection. PM me if interested. I have found several nice arrowheads on the farm myself.
TheKid: Nice materials there and tough stuff to work.
Who's to say on many of the pieces we pick up out there? Items were often resharpened and repurposed as they dulled or broke over their extended lives. Here in eastern Oregon, one often finds single flakes of material miles from it's nearest source and assumes they're nothing but detritus. Such were easily knocked off a core, briefly used for cutting or scraping, then dropped on site. I've found several obsidian cores over the years, and one could still knock off flakes that would be useful knives as is or reduced to points, drills, or scrappers in short order.
Great thread! Glad I found it and will get back to reading the rest of it but thought you guys would be interested to see a different kind of Indian artifact.
Found this one scouting for deer in the fall in middle of Nevada. 30-06 for size. The fine symmetry and craftsmanship on this one tell me this was made by an old hand...but I really have no clue. Just seems better crafted than others I have found.
TheKid: Nice materials there and tough stuff to work.
Who's to say on many of the pieces we pick up out there? Items were often resharpened and repurposed as they dulled or broke over their extended lives. Here in eastern Oregon, one often finds single flakes of material miles from it's nearest source and assumes they're nothing but detritus. Such were easily knocked off a core, briefly used for cutting or scraping, then dropped on site. I've found several obsidian cores over the years, and one could still knock off flakes that would be useful knives as is or reduced to points, drills, or scrappers in short order.
I got an obsidian Bradley spike I found in middle northern TN UT Knoxville Has gas chromograph studied obsidian points found in this part of the country and has been able To ID the actual volcano,s the material came from in the west. Trade routes were extensive back then.
It is pretty amazing to think about the travel and trade that took place back then. Flint sources are pretty scarce in this part of the country, Alibates quarry is the closest and is a 7 hour drive from here at 70mph. The closest obsidian is lord knows how far and we find stuff made out of it occasionally too. We do have agate nodules out in the hills here and find some stuff made out of it pretty regularly. Dad found the cutest little bitty square thumb scraper, about 3/4” square, that looks like it could possibly be amber may just be a yellow orange agate but it’s the right color and texture.
Most of what we find is the little Christmas tree Washitas and triangle points with the one area holding a decent amount of bigger older stuff. We almost never find large tools like we do out west. No axes, hoes, hammers,grindstones or bowls. I found an outstanding arrow straightener one year out west, approx 2 1/2”x 2”x4 1/2” with two parallel grooves in the top worn absolutely glass smooth. All of the sides are convex and perfectly matched, looks like a tiny loaf of bread with two grooves in the top.
In the site the buffalo skull came from we’ve found probably 40 other skulls in various states of brokenness. I’ve also found what I’m certain are grizzly bear teeth. Haven’t been grizzlies in Oklahoma for a good while now.
I must be getting old as aside from hunting and fishing, looking for arrowheads and metal detecting are fast becoming my favorite hobbies.
Id love to see a Pic of the Buffalo skull that you found! This is a Great thread! I knew a fellow that showed me a Huge Buff skull that he found, was the biggest Iv ever seen! a bank had give way on a creek, and the horn core was sticking out, he dug it out! it came from a Park so he didnt show it to often, hes moved to Texas somewhere!
Speaking of buffalo skulls.. found this one in an odd place for a buffalo to be. It was in a tiny natural grassy clearing on top of a heavily timbered ridge high above the valley floor I stopped to eat lunch while elk hunting and sat next to it on the ground. Only a tiny portion of bone was showing above the dirt, and being curious I spent the next 15 minutes digging it out. I was surprised to see it was a buffalo skull. If that skull could talk..
I've found pieces of the old ones here and there. Most were southern herd bison.
There are a surprising number of old and ancient bison skulls around today.
One interesting find I had was a mammoth skeleton. Parts were pretty degraded. All was crumbly. The university came out and looked and said it had no value to them.
Id love to see a Pic of the Buffalo skull that you found! This is a Great thread! I knew a fellow that showed me a Huge Buff skull that he found, was the biggest Iv ever seen! a bank had give way on a creek, and the horn core was sticking out, he dug it out! it came from a Park so he didnt show it to often, hes moved to Texas somewhere!
I don’t know how to get pictures to post directly but if you click on my image gallery link there’s a pic there. It’s a big one.
Just found this out in the yard. About 40’ from where I’m setting. Now I’d like to know if it’s always been here or if it’s one that one that I or of the boys found, and then lost in the last 40 years. Never know.
Wish we could find some relic stuff like bowls , grinders, pipes or effigy schitt.
Who knows.....
Might happen......
About a 100 years ago, archeologists unearthed a large village near Pembroke, on Montgomery creek. That's part of the West Fork of the Red, and a lot of stuff has been found up and down it. I've seen some old pictures of the site, and they found some of the good chit.....bowls, pipes, lot's of caches of points, and some graves.
It's here, you just have to be lucky to hit the spot.
I hunted artifacts ever since I was a kid in your area there. Found lots of Toyah and Harrell points and some nice long stem Perdiz like you have. Even a Clovis and Folsom now and again. Your paleo in the center is extra nice too. Clovis?
I found that in the middle of a cotton field. There is a camp on a sandy hill that overlooks a playa lake (buffalo wallow). The figure is painted on it. I’m not sure exactly what it is supposed to be. The rock isn’t from around here.
Wish we could find some relic stuff like bowls , grinders, pipes or effigy schitt.
Who knows.....
Might happen......
About a 100 years ago, archeologists unearthed a large village near Pembroke, on Montgomery creek. That's part of the West Fork of the Red, and a lot of stuff has been found up and down it. I've seen some old pictures of the site, and they found some of the good chit.....bowls, pipes, lot's of caches of points, and some graves.
It's here, you just have to be lucky to hit the spot.
Just be extra careful not to try digging up stuff...
We are in West Texas. My cousin has a black river rock that he found in another field that has a whale or fish carved into it. I am not sure where it originated either.
Very cool. Our matates are all oval shaped from grinding. We have some natural limestone on the surface here and some sandstone. Nearest flint quarry is about 45 miles away.
Never find any 'bowls' i surmise they just used limestone slabs or wood
Small handed, smooth and well used.
I found a few like that. No grind marks on them. Smooth and worn though.
Archaeologist I showed them to said they were hide stones for working the leather soft in the brain tanning process. He was pretty sure of himself. Got it confirmed by a few others.
The workmanship in the arrow heads is incredible. How long would it take for a skilled person to make one? Were the heads made by particular people in a tribe, or did anyone do it? Just excellent work..
The workmanship in the arrow heads is incredible. How long would it take for a skilled person to make one? Were the heads made by particular people in a tribe, or did anyone do it? Just excellent work..
Styles, size and materials vary as to when it was made, who made it, and what it was made for.
Didn't take too long to make a point. That depended as well... On craftsmanship and tools and material.
Lots of Indians had the older men make them while sitting in camp.
One reason you find so many "perfect" points is because when a point drew blood, they discarded it. Indians were very superstitious about blood. Hence the menstrual lodges for their women's time of month. If a point drew blood, it was discarded, and new point put on the haft. Therefore it's a good idea to look for points around a campfire, because that's where they did that work a lot of times. Even better is to look on the North side of the campfire circle. Sitting with their back to the north wind and discarding bloody points while warming at the campfire.
"One reason you find so many "perfect" points is because when a point drew blood, they discarded it. Indians were very superstitious about blood."
I don't doubt this at all, because of the unbelievable number of whole points that have been found and we keep finding them. The question comes to my mind is how do we know that is the reason. Is this just a plausible explanation or is it based in fact?
Are there much in the way of points and blades in those areas?
Not sure where Salmonella is located, but I have seen an enormous collection of points found in North Central Cali. Found a few myself on the Nevada side of the border.
Excellent thread. Maybe someone can shed further light on these.
I found them lying on top of the ground. The area is near Martinsville, VA way up on top of a mountain in a spot I call Jurassic Park. It is a small flat area less than .5 acres surrounded by steep ravines. If you're looking North there are 2 creeks coming in at, say, 10 Oclock and 2 OClock and they join together at 6 Oclock.
From what I could find out they're somewhere around 7 thousand years old but the interesting thing is the stone for the scraper came from the Asheboro, NC area, so there must have been some trading going on. It takes me an hour and a half to get to Asheboro in the Ram. I can't even imagine walking there.
I've been meaning to get back up there and dig around a little but we've had rain galore and it's so steep the mule won't go back up the hill if its wet.
Y'all are making me jealous. I used to live in central Georgia and found all kinds of points and pottery down there, along the Oconee River. All you had to do was walk the fields in the spring, after they were plowed and after a rain. I got some really nice points.
Now I live in the NC mountains. I walk the fields along the creek and the river here, I never have found a single point, or even a flint flake. There were Indians in the NC mountains, I guess they didn't like my neighborhood.
By the way, some of my buddies were looking in the Oconee River in Milledgeville Ga. right where the highway bridge crosses. They found a clay pipe, Indian pipe, made in the shape of a duck. I mean this piece would have been accepted by a museum. It was about 4 inches long they said. The boys had it for about a month, and one night they were smoking pot from it, dropped it on the kitchen floor and it shattered into a hundred pieces. Wie Schade.
We have had a really really wet winter. Hopefully within the next 2 weeks they will start plowing. I'm starting new Sold my points , bought a gun with the funds.
Y'all are making me jealous. I used to live in central Georgia and found all kinds of points and pottery down there, along the Oconee River. All you had to do was walk the fields in the spring, after they were plowed and after a rain. I got some really nice points.
Now I live in the NC mountains. I walk the fields along the creek and the river here, I never have found a single point, or even a flint flake. There were Indians in the NC mountains, I guess they didn't like my neighborhood.
By the way, some of my buddies were looking in the Oconee River in Milledgeville Ga. right where the highway bridge crosses. They found a clay pipe, Indian pipe, made in the shape of a duck. I mean this piece would have been accepted by a museum. It was about 4 inches long they said. The boys had it for about a month, and one night they were smoking pot from it, dropped it on the kitchen floor and it shattered into a hundred pieces. Wie Schade.
Anyway, here is an axe head that I found along the Oconee River in Georgia.
You said you found it along the river, do the rivers there change course continually? is the axe head fairly recent do you think? it doesn't look that worn really...up here the river near me has moved 100 yds in less than 100 years. Making it hard to find stuff because I dont know where it was 200 years ago.
I wish they would plow the ground down behind my house along the cumberland. They bust up that ground , plant tobacco every 3 or 4 years . I have found paleo to Mississippian down their on 3 hot spots of pretty decent size from 2 acres to 30 acres.
Anyway, here is an axe head that I found along the Oconee River in Georgia.
You said you found it along the river, do the rivers there change course continually? is the axe head fairly recent do you think? it doesn't look that worn really...up here the river near me has moved 100 yds in less than 100 years. Making it hard to find stuff because I dont know where it was 200 years ago.
This was found along the Oconee River in Baldwin County Georgia. No the river hasn't changed course or I would have seen the other channels.
Whitey came in about 1804 to start the town of Milledgeville nearby, of course there would have been isolated log cabins etc for several decades prior to that. I mean, by 1780 old Big Buffalo could have gotten a steel axe head in trade so I would think this thing was made prior to 1750 or so.
I mean, other than that, how do you tell if it is 300 years old, or 3,000 years old? Can you imagine how much work it would be to make a stone axehead with stone tools.
Anyway, here is an axe head that I found along the Oconee River in Georgia.
You said you found it along the river, do the rivers there change course continually? is the axe head fairly recent do you think? it doesn't look that worn really...up here the river near me has moved 100 yds in less than 100 years. Making it hard to find stuff because I dont know where it was 200 years ago.
This was found along the Oconee River in Baldwin County Georgia. No the river hasn't changed course or I would have seen the other channels.
Whitey came in about 1804 to start the town of Milledgeville nearby, of course there would have been isolated log cabins etc for several decades prior to that. I mean, by 1780 old Big Buffalo could have gotten a steel axe head in trade so I would think this thing was made prior to 1750 or so.
I mean, other than that, how do you tell if it is 300 years old, or 3,000 years old? Can you imagine how much work it would be to make a stone axehead with stone tools.
Anyway, here is an axe head that I found along the Oconee River in Georgia.
I don't think that was an axe as in terms of cutting down trees...
That's a very good find, BTW.
Mostly those "axe" heads were attached to a handle and were used to crack bones so the Indians could get at the marrow. We all know they didn't waste anything of the kill. But Indians loved bone marrow. They thought of marrow as we think of butter today...
Yeah, I never thought it would be too good for chopping down a tree. Take two days to make the axe head and it breaks after 30 minutes of chopping a tree. I am on the road now but that thing is pretty big for a bone cracker. It is about five inches long and four inches high. Let's see, a carpenter's hammer might have a 16 ounce head, this Indian tool weighs about 3 pounds.
Anyway, here is an axe head that I found along the Oconee River in Georgia.
I don't think that was an axe as in terms of cutting down trees...
That's a very good find, BTW.
Mostly those "axe" heads were attached to a handle and were used to crack bones so the Indians could get at the marrow. We all know they didn't waste anything of the kill. But Indians loved bone marrow. They thought of marrow as we think of butter today...
My dad gets annoyed (he introduced me to hunting points a age 5)
But I have found them when we have pulled up to some place random to take a whizz or get a get drink out of the cooler...and more than twice I have found a broke or a scraper or even a whole. From Florida to Utah. lol
Found one while my daughter was feeding ducks some wonder bread at a lake one time. That pissed him off. hahahaha
Yeah, I found one in the yard about two weeks ago. Been here 40 years. First one! LOL
Best "look what I found" story was from archaeologist son. They were doing a mitigation down in Maverick county. Found a burial in cattle pen, at the opening of a cattle shoot right next to the county ranch road. I mean inches. Was only like 2" under surface. So lots o’ bones sticking out. Middle to late archaic site.
Nice finds. Actual arrowheads. You nail down the era for most of your finds? I'm geussing early to late woodland and missispian era in eastern vernicular. Dont know what the western more modern era,s are called. 3500 - 2500 bc stuff up to pre colonial?
Made a pretty fair haul this weekend after all the rain we’ve had recently. 3 prehistoric buffalo skulls, as far as we can determine they’re Bison Occidentalis, different horn shape and larger than the modern Bison Bison. Sources say circa 12,000-5,000 before present. Found several run of the mill points, brokes, concave knives, and a couple crude turtle scrapers.
Uncle found the most beautiful pink flint cornertang knife. Dad found an excellent San Patrice point, very late paleo or very early archaic period and made of really nice dark chocolate colored flint. Dad also found the most massive elk antler I’ve ever seen aside from a Roosevelt, the brow tines are probably 1 1/2” in diameter and the burr is easily 4” across. It came out from under a cutbank and is very old, there haven’t been any elk in the area since the mid 1800’s and I’d bet this is way older than that.
I found two perfect points, one a coffee brown flint Scottsbluff in grey shape and the other a dark grey flint Dalton. The Dalton is the smallest of that form I’ve seen and it’s beveled on the right sides like a Harahay knife.
I’ll try Slumlord, it’s dad’s and he may already have it on a board. Overstreet says it’s a San Patrice, has two base flutes side by side on each side of the base.
It's hard for me to believe y'all are finding artifacts like this! I just give up! I've been looking five or six times this spring and all I've found is a handful of chips and a few small pieces of broken pottery.
Keep posting your finds! I love to see this stuff.
Old friend here has a pair of Scottsbluff’s I swear there 5" or better. Found them right down the road here from the place on the river. Awesome projectiles. That property now is owned by a movie studio. Nobody can get there now. I believe the site is classified as 41BP1. First site registered in the county!
I’ll try Slumlord, it’s dad’s and he may already have it on a board. Overstreet says it’s a San Patrice, has two base flutes side by side on each side of the base.
No prob, good enough, you answered my suspicion of what it might be.
Reckon the top left one may have been part of a spokeshave for making arrow shafts Huntsman? I can’t tell how it’s sharpened but I’ve seen pics of little hooked scrapers and that’s what they were supposed to be.
Drove past our creek spot today for work and it’s back up and rolling again washing more goodies out of thw banks. Hopefully we don’t get any more rain and we can hit it again Saturday morning.
Yeah Rockin’. You see a lot of calcification on points in areas of the hill country. Especially artifacts located on top of limestone bedrock at the bottom of sites, middens, etc.
I found this heartbreaker two weeks ago. Perfect aside from the missing ear. Thing is razor sharp and less than 1/8” thick. Found a buffler head too but a pretty good bit of the nose is missing. We got a good rain last night so we’ll hit it again Saturday at daylight
This is my little bluff above the creek. Artifacts are scattered along about a half mile. Getting hard to see them with all the grass/cover. My sis got a couple pics of me today. A few of the heifers came to check us out....
I carry a cow-poker(showstick) to turn over stuff without bending over, and it comes in handy as a walking stick or snake-pinner-downer, too. Had to show the girls a bullsnake I came across....
I've went a few times in the last couple weeks. All my stuff is real crude work and I don't know what most of it is. One on left in first pic looks like back of a garry point is about all I know.
I've went a few times in the last couple weeks. All my stuff is real crude work and I don't know what most of it is. One on left in first pic looks like back of a garry point is about all I know.
You hunting a place that has been plowed for years?
I've went a few times in the last couple weeks. All my stuff is real crude work and I don't know what most of it is. One on left in first pic looks like back of a garry point is about all I know.
You hunting a place that has been plowed for years?
no I'm hunting the tracks of a two track road after the rains it erodes pretty good. The big black head that looks like axe cam from a clear water creek bed. Unfortunately there isn't much being plowed in my area, there is amazing ground to hunt but its all planted in bermuda
Pretty slow today, mostly just a handful of scrapers and a few broken buffalo skulls. I did manage to find one beauty though. Haven’t had a chance to look through Oversteet to see what it is.
Pretty slow today, mostly just a handful of scrapers and a few broken buffalo skulls. I did manage to find one beauty though. Haven’t had a chance to look through Oversteet to see what it is.
Man that is a nice point. I find flint arrowheads just fascinating. Haven't found nor looked specifically for any in 20yrs or since my health went downhill. I always ponder as to the how's and why's one ended up where I found it and how long it had been laying there exposed. Never have found a real nice complete one. Dad always amazed me with what he came up with while working fallow before no till and CRP came to this part of SD. He on numerous occasions spotted one from the tractor. Course back then we didn't have cabs and A/C. How they were designed and fitted to a shaft was ingenious IMO.
This I think is the most interesting thread I have followed on the net. So thankfull all of you have taken and posted pics as well as included some history of them. Thanks again.
Respectfully, Dennis PS-I did find a 63 or 64 Chev Biscayne hub cap one time though with an empty Pall Mall pack and flattened Buckhorn can nearby! Think that was Cheyenne?
I hate that you guys got all that rain up there WL205, I know you’ve had more than plenty lately. Should be some new treasures washed out in the arrowhead fields though. We were supposed to get over 5 inches down here in the opposite corner of the state but thankfully only ended up getting about 5 drops. Good luck
Any of you guys have any idea what kind of point the one I posted yesterday is? I can’t find anything in Overstreet or online that really matches it. It’s definitely a beauty whatever it is and one of my better finds.
I hate that you guys got all that rain up there WL205, I know you’ve had more than plenty lately. Should be some new treasures washed out in the arrowhead fields though. We were supposed to get over 5 inches down here in the opposite corner of the state but thankfully only ended up getting about 5 drops. Good luck
Any of you guys have any idea what kind of point the one I posted yesterday is? I can’t find anything in Overstreet or online that really matches it. It’s definitely a beauty whatever it is and one of my better finds.
I've bout chewed thru the bit waiting on last months flood waters to go down. Those buff heads you been pickin got me fired up to look for some on the Arkansas
I hate that you guys got all that rain up there WL205, I know you’ve had more than plenty lately. Should be some new treasures washed out in the arrowhead fields though. We were supposed to get over 5 inches down here in the opposite corner of the state but thankfully only ended up getting about 5 drops. Good luck
Any of you guys have any idea what kind of point the one I posted yesterday is? I can’t find anything in Overstreet or online that really matches it. It’s definitely a beauty whatever it is and one of my better finds.
Around here it would be almost a form of a St Charles dovetail
That’s about what I’ve settled on Renegade. The front doesn’t resemble most St Charles as most examples of them are more convex like a kirk and this one has the Christmas tree shape. The Plevna dovetail looks very similar but I’m a long way from the Tennessee River Valley where they’re usually found
Well I’d say you guys did okay. I worked all day and when I got home I was out swatting buffalo gnats and skeeters till dark but I was mowing and not hunting injun rocks.
That’s about what I’ve settled on Renegade. The front doesn’t resemble most St Charles as most examples of them are more convex like a kirk and this one has the Christmas tree shape. The Plevna dovetail looks very similar but I’m a long way from the Tennessee River Valley where they’re usually found
Regarding uncommon to area ancient artifact finds, is it reasonable that such finds could be from distant ancient travelers, hunting/raiding parties or simple trading with distant individuals/tribes, etc.?
I firmly believe that the “experts” don’t know nearly as much as they think they do when it comes to the distribution and timelines of ancient Americans. Just in the one spot I’ve found point forms and tools that, according to books and scholars range in age from 12,000 to 200 years old. I’ve also found forms that are a good 600-800 miles from their supposed range.
I’m fascinated by the whole hobby/science of artifact hunting but I believe a lot, if not most of whats “known” is pure theory.
I firmly believe that the “experts” don’t know nearly as much as they think they do when it comes to the distribution and timelines of ancient Americans. Just in the one spot I’ve found point forms and tools that, according to books and scholars range in age from 12,000 to 200 years old. I’ve also found forms that are a good 600-800 miles from their supposed range.
I’m fascinated by the whole hobby/science of artifact hunting but I believe a lot, if not most of whats “known” is pure theory.
A lot of truth to that.
There are many variables.
Like you, I have found artifacts Paleo era to Post-archaic period, in one location. But the older were at the bottom and newer at the top, with no mixing in the layers.
Found an Early Triangular point made of jade. Figure that one out, being as it was found far south.
Early man traveled and traded materials and goods much more than most people think.
Found alabates artifacts hundreds of miles from any known source.
Found alabates artifacts hundreds of miles from any known source.
This has been known for a long time, Alibates flint was traded far and wide. It is a very fine grained chert and was actually mined. Remember the plains indians were a migratory people.
Found an obsidian point along the Cumberland about 1/ 4th mile behind the house. That had ta travel a ways from the sources in the west. The material rock and flakes laying on the ground is mind boggling Almost sensory overload. I would say half of the debitage is from 100,s of mile away easy. It ain't native to around here for sure. They turn it over deep about every 4 or 5 yrs for tobacco. Found alot of points down there over the years from dalton's to mississippian stuff and everything in between.
Alot of the established knowledge about era,s, distribution, and types is dated. It puts alot of faith into certain people saying this was that, that was this, this was from then or that place. And 50 60 70 or more years ago. Not saying it was inaccurate but some saying something carte blanche and everyone accepting it as gospel. Leads to alot of conjecture.
My back yard is full of round chert nodules. Some of it actually is broken up and looks fire treated. Right behind that spot on the Cumberland 30 yards across a little dirt road is a elevated plateau about 2 acres in size. Full of BlackBerry briars Debtiage feild leads right to it. Almost like what I am hunting is the dump for eons and that plateau Was the long term habitated spot Myself and a neighbor have dug a little 1st couple shovels I came up with a busted up dovetail base. Pita digging. Dont care for it. Now if I had a backhoe and a big ole flat bed trailer and if the owner would allow it. I would load yards of dirt and wash that down.
Found alabates artifacts hundreds of miles from any known source.
This has been known for a long time, Alibates flint was traded far and wide. It is a very fine grained chert and was actually mined. Remember the plains indians were a migratory people.
It was highly valued and prized type of tool material among early native Americans.
Favorite thread on this site. I agree with pretty much all of you guys. The two biggest and most rhetorical questions I have had for years are....1: The naming of the types of projectile points. I get it, you may have been the first "scholar" to record it it scientifically, great. I get it. But the similarities between points regardless of geographic region or period overlap seem to be manipulated and altered for the sake of "their function". I'm in no freaking way an expert, but it would appear to me that there IS a general shape needed for such tools and I believe our ancestors traded intentionally or otherwise, they were influenced by each other. "Look at the tips these fkrs shot at us", that gives me an idea said one of the old retired Braves. My vote is for just giving them a general type description. I have found shapes that look like they should have come from Missouri. WTF? Function....they had A LOT of time on their hands. ??? 2: For you Texas boys: Cornertang. What are your theories on specific handling? Hafted or a cortage loop around the wrist? As puzzling as the bird stones and banner stones of the midwest.
For you Texas boys: Cornertang. What are your theories on specific handling? Hafted or a cortage loop around the wrist?
I vote for hafted on the corner tang.
When they made those notches, they usually put a shaft or handle on whatever they went to the trouble to notch..
I can definitely see that RockinB, but at the same time the thought of a "razor blade" on a loop around the wrist while your hands are covered in blood, and needing to grab and pull hide and meat periodically in the the process opens my mind up a bit. Not having to set the knife aside, just seems really smart.
Wish me and slumlord could run across some late woodland and mississippian utensil stuff.
Just not around alot of our places. I found an unusual small oblong extended triangular piece about 1.5" Made out of pink and white fine speckled material Could never ID it. Fine knapped most intricate work on edges I ever seen. Kinda think it was a piece of jewelry. Sold it in my previous collection. Bought a pistol. Stone for steel type of thing.
I need to get over to archaeologist son’s house and get some photo’s of my dad’s stuff.
Im convinced dad sold some of his stuff to pay off some lawyer fees. He had a real nice Afton point and when we picked up his collection that point was gone. As well as several awesome Pedernales points I remembered. BIG ones! Mebbe Im wrong.
In passing one day dad said he never found an Langtry or a Val Verde. At his funeral. Son and I slipped one of each into his coat pocket. Our best ones.
I found 5 assorted points and blades in one spot where a midden had slumped off a creek bank out in Crockett county on Live oak Creek. About 2 or 3 miles upstream from where it runs into the Pecos river. That’s where the Lantry was found. There was a real pretty little Val Verde laying there with it the damn sheep had srepped on going to the creek. Chipped a little piece out of the blade.
Wish me and slumlord could run across some late woodland and mississippian utensil stuff.
Just not around alot of our places. I found an unusual small oblong extended triangular piece about 1.5" Made out of pink and white fine speckled material Could never ID it. Fine knapped most intricate work on edges I ever seen. Kinda think it was a piece of jewelry. Sold it in my previous collection. Bought a pistol. Stone for steel type of thing.
Wish I could see the stuff you guys find, especially that triangular piece you're talking about. All kinds of stuff down here as far as tools and points, but my favorite personal find is a giant freshwater clam shell that's been polished And has a beautiful hole drilled in it. Its broke almost in half, I have about 3/4s of it but still an amazing find to me anyway. Found in a trash pit about 2' deep along with tons of old bone fragments with cut marks all over. Killer heartbreakers. Razor not paper thin.
The left and middle points came out of that midden I mentioned above at another time. The Ensor ( middle) was a surface find. The point on the right came from a cliff shelter above the creek about a mile away. I dug my azz off all day and it was the only thing I found. Its a nice point.
This one is one of my favorites. Old friend deceased now just finished a runway on his place. Cleard off a lot of trees and brush. This was surface find after a good rain.
Speaking of multi era campsite. Old son found a nice angostura same evening I found this point about a 100 yards from where I picked this up.
The left and middle points came out of that midden I mentioned above at another time. The Ensor ( middle) was a surface find. The point on the right came from a cliff shelter above the creek about a mile away. I dug my azz off all day and it was the only thing I found. Its a nice point.
This one is one of my favorites. Old friend deceased now just finished a runway on his place. Cleard off a lot of trees and brush. This was surface find after a good rain.
Speaking of multi era campsite. Old son found a nice angostura same evening I found this point about a 100 yards from where I picked this up.
Thanks BnB. I don’t dig now. But I always walk around lookin’ at the ground.
Same here. Great stuff! Some of the most AMAZING things I've ever seen in my life were in frames belonging to a taxidermist who was a friend of a friends. Guy didn't hunt, but would trade work for permission to dig. I can't even begin to tell you how incredible that stuff was.
Where I found that point on the runway, the fella that owned that place bought a collection from an old man in Elgin That ran a grocery store in town during the depression. He would trade groceries for points. Fellas that worked in the brickyard there between Elgin and McDade were always pulling stuff out of the shakers and off the conveyor. Bring it in and trade!!!
Where I found that point on the runway, the fella that owned that place bought a collection from an old man in Elgin That ran a grocery store in town during the depression. He would trade groceries for points. Fellas that worked in the brickyard there between Elgin and McDade were always pulling stuff out of the shakers and off the conveyor. Bring it in and trade!!!
He had some great stuff.
Wow! I know the area well. Isn't it a shame just thinking about everything that was destroyed in the Bastrop fires? I remember going there after the replanting of trees and restoration projects and every single rock on the ground was fire popped and shattered. Everything. Seen a lot of great stuff come from that same area before the fires.
Wish me and slumlord could run across some late woodland and mississippian utensil stuff.
Just not around alot of our places. I found an unusual small oblong extended triangular piece about 1.5" Made out of pink and white fine speckled material Could never ID it. Fine knapped most intricate work on edges I ever seen. Kinda think it was a piece of jewelry. Sold it in my previous collection. Bought a pistol. Stone for steel type of thing.
Wish I could see the stuff you guys find, especially that triangular piece you're talking about. All kinds of stuff down here as far as tools and points, but my favorite personal find is a giant freshwater clam shell that's been polished And has a beautiful hole drilled in it. Its broke almost in half, I have about 3/4s of it but still an amazing find to me anyway. Found in a trash pit about 2' deep along with tons of old bone fragments with cut marks all over. Killer heartbreakers. Razor not paper thin.
Crop rotation kinda fugged us this year One rotation place soybean last year no winter wheat and corn this year
Other rotation place winter wheat right now getting cut Get disced a little and late soybean thrown on that From late November when they plowed both we will be at it again
The place in winter wheat now is better JMO. Have done alot of probe walks over the last 3 yrs confirming yes or no on stuff. Have found some nice hot spots no one else hits. But have ta be careful not to telegraph em.
Most of the stuff we find is archaic and paleo stuff and some very early woodland.
Pretty neat story about the grocer Kaywoodie. There was a guy in Boise City OK back in the 50’s who owned the Chevrolet dealership. More than once he swapped a new Chevy for a nice collection. There used to be a museum out there with his collections on display but it’s been closed for a long time now.
I just reread the whole thread, one of my favorites on this site. Slumlord and Renegade’s tales of idiot dopers walking over stuff reminded me of a story from a few years ago.
A guy gave my dad, uncle, and a friend permission to hunt a hilltop camp in a wheat field he’d just plowed for the first time in a long time. When they got there an old dude in white sneakers was just leaving, they talked to him and he said he’d just walked the whole thing and found them all, had 3 or 4 points. They went ahead and walked it anyway and the guy had indeed walked pretty much the whole thing. He must have left his cataract glasses at home though because they found over 40 Washitas!
Where I found that point on the runway, the fella that owned that place bought a collection from an old man in Elgin That ran a grocery store in town during the depression. He would trade groceries for points. Fellas that worked in the brickyard there between Elgin and McDade were always pulling stuff out of the shakers and off the conveyor. Bring it in and trade!!!
He had some great stuff.
Wow! I know the area well. Isn't it a shame just thinking about everything that was destroyed in the Bastrop fires? I remember going there after the replanting of trees and restoration projects and every single rock on the ground was fire popped and shattered. Everything. Seen a lot of great stuff come from that same area before the fires.
BnB,
There’s this cat right up the road from me has this site on his property. For something like $150 he’ll bring you a big scoop of dirt with his front end loader and dump in in front of you for your family and friends to go a-digfin’ thru. Big damn site. Lots of good stuff being found. Im sure lots of good stuff being missed and broken too. Oh well, none of my bidness what he does with his property. I really do not care.
There’s this cat right up the road from me has this site on his property. For something like $150 he’ll bring you a big scoop of dirt with his front end loader and dump in in front of you for your family and friends to go a-digfin’ thru. Big damn site. Lots of good stuff being found. Im sure lots of good stuff being missed and broken too. Oh well, none of my bidness what he does with his property. I really do not care.
I knew a guy in Uvalde that would go to ranchers and farmers, land owners and look at their property for Indian camps. He was pretty good at finding a good camp too.
Once he established there was one worth digging, he would offer the land owner 1/2 of the take. (He would take the day's finds and they would flip a coin for first pick. then take turns choosing until the points were gone.
He used a backhoe and commercial screen. That screen had several layers. He didn't miss much.
Kinda always rubbed me the wrong way though, to know he was doing that.
Dad had a screener with a little gasoline engine on it. He originally built it for Topaz hunting up around Mason. But you had to be close to your hunting site to use it as it was cumbersome and heavy.
Dad quit hunting all that stuff about the time I was really getting interested in it. Digging was work. We turned to fossils. Lots of em. Ranchers didn’t mind you hauling rocks off their property. And they were right on top of the ground. We did find some good stuff. We had an impressive collection of Pennsylvanian era Texas and Devonian era Oklahoma trilobites.
There’s this cat right up the road from me has this site on his property. For something like $150 he’ll bring you a big scoop of dirt with his front end loader and dump in in front of you for your family and friends to go a-digfin’ thru. Big damn site. Lots of good stuff being found. Im sure lots of good stuff being missed and broken too. Oh well, none of my bidness what he does with his property. I really do not care.
I knew a guy in Uvalde that would go to ranchers and farmers, land owners and look at their property for Indian camps. He was pretty good at finding a good camp too.
Once he established there was one worth digging, he would offer the land owner 1/2 of the take. (He would take the day's finds and they would flip a coin for first pick. then take turns choosing until the points were gone.
He used a backhoe and commercial screen. That screen had several layers. He didn't miss much.
Kinda always rubbed me the wrong way though, to know he was doing that.
Interesting stuff. Don't know how I feel about that but it's none of my business what people do with their property. I read a story a while back about a guy that went on a pay dig and found something superb. Can't remember exactly, maybe an Andice or a big Friday knife. Anyway, the landowner requested that everyone report their funds so that he could photo and catalog for his records. Well this one guy went and showed it to him but he wouldn't give it back. They ended up going to court over the mess. I'll see if I can find the story.
Had a fellow show up one night at Travis county archaeological society meeting with a mountain of stuff he found at a site in city limits of Austin. Some really nice stuff. Had a preform blade as big as my hand made outta some big ass piece of Colorado river cobble. Mebbe only 5/16" thick. And translucent. Cool as hell.
A TxDot archaeologist happened to be there that night. Started quizzing him on where he found all this stuff. Turns out it was on state ROW. A big no no here. Fines can be exorbitant. It’s "by the artifact" type of fines. Guy ended up surrendering all he had found. Made the newspaper. That big preform made front page.
I spoke to another TxDot archaeologist that went out to inspect the site. Said the local neighborhood kids were looting and trashing the place. Said they had uncovered a complete bison skull and used it for a rock target. Well wasn’t complete anymore.
I suppose sometimes it just pays to keep quiet about some things.
Had a fellow show up one night at Travis county archaeological society meeting with a mountain of stuff he found at a site in city limits of Austin. Some really nice stuff. Had a preform blade as big as my hand made outta some big ass piece of Colorado river cobble. Mebbe only 5/16" thick. And translucent. Cool as hell.
A TxDot archaeologist happened to be there that night. Started quizzing him on where he found all this stuff. Turns out it was on state ROW. A big no no here. Fines can be exorbitant. It’s "by the artifact" type of fines. Guy ended up surrendering all he had found. Made the newspaper. That big preform made front page.
I spoke to another TxDot archaeologist that went out to inspect the site. Said the local neighborhood kids were looting and trashing the place. Said they had uncovered a complete bison skull and used it for a rock target. Well wasn’t complete anymore.
I suppose sometimes it just pays to keep quiet about some things.
No doubt about keeping quiet.
I had found several Paleo points at one site, and the archaeology professor at UT tried every way in the world that he knew of to get me to divulge that site whereabouts. Did he think I fell off the turnip truck yesterday?
Had a fellow show up one night at Travis county archaeological society meeting with a mountain of stuff he found at a site in city limits of Austin. Some really nice stuff. Had a preform blade as big as my hand made outta some big ass piece of Colorado river cobble. Mebbe only 5/16" thick. And translucent. Cool as hell.
A TxDot archaeologist happened to be there that night. Started quizzing him on where he found all this stuff. Turns out it was on state ROW. A big no no here. Fines can be exorbitant. It’s "by the artifact" type of fines. Guy ended up surrendering all he had found. Made the newspaper. That big preform made front page.
I spoke to another TxDot archaeologist that went out to inspect the site. Said the local neighborhood kids were looting and trashing the place. Said they had uncovered a complete bison skull and used it for a rock target. Well wasn’t complete anymore.
I suppose sometimes it just pays to keep quiet about some things.
No doubt about keeping quiet.
I had found several Paleo points at one site, and the archaeology professor at UT tried every way in the world that he knew of to get me to divulge that site whereabouts. Did he think I fell off the turnip truck yesterday?
Keep an eye on your beer around those UT Professors RockinB, might try to slip you something. Instead of date rape drug, "site location" drug.
Professional archaeologist can be quite the eclectic lot. I have known quite a few. Many are great individuals that I have really enjoyed being around.
Considerimg some of the lame subject matter being discussed this morning. Wimmens soccer dykes and he-she coochie resident eradication, how about some more artifacts this morn???
Here’s one I posted several years back that belongs to my old compadre that he will not mind me posting again! This was found in a cliff shelter/ cave on Perdenales River close to the Travis/Blanco county line before WWII. Apparently former owner may have acquired it from a recent German immigrant. The uncle was killed in Italy in WWII but he was quite the relic hunter. He also found a small Lefaunchex pinfire revolver in another shelter. I do not have photo of it.
There was a 5 gallon bucket of assorted projectile points that he found out in the barn. That bucket got turned over and the contents scattered around the area. It was a great hunting spot. Sifting around in the dirt.
On another occasion I found the trigger mechanism to a Kentucky style single lever, double set trigger with my old metal detector. As well as two State of Illinois buttons. Clueless about where they came from. But compadres Mom (btw, the uncle was her twin brother) told us that her borther had originally found 2 rifles. One they used for a toy and it got tore up. I probably found the trigger. ( I still have it around here somewhere. I’ll try to find it and photo). And she went on to say that she thought there was an old jacket that some relative brought home that had the buttons on it. She didn’t know where it really came from. I found all this stuff like 50 years ago.
I am puzzled about why we dont find points like you guys do down south, all I can figure is that the repetitive cycle of fires has broken up all the points. The other thing I was thinking is that early inhabitants were in much greater numbers down south than they were up here? Pictographs are few here as well, you have many, thanks kaywoodie, interesting.
Considerimg some of the lame subject matter being discussed this morning. Wimmens soccer dykes and he-she coochie resident eradication, how about some more artifacts this morn???
Here’s one I posted several years back that belongs to my old compadre that he will not mind me posting again! This was found in a cliff shelter/ cave on Perdenales River close to the Travis/Blanco county line before WWII. Apparently former owner may have acquired it from a recent German immigrant. The uncle was killed in Italy in WWII but he was quite the relic hunter. He also found a small Lefaunchex pinfire revolver in another shelter. I do not have photo of it.
Hahaha!!!
Not artifact related but still way better than the stuff you intially said above!!!
I'm fixing to get jiggy with some carefully filing out air circulation slots on my AK. The 922r forearm upper and lower leave alot to be desired Been looking at how they should be from sovbloc designs on the web.
Someday I should get me another AK. Found a whole bunch of mags other day left over from my contract OPFOR daze. Another may come in handy sometime. My old one was nice. An Armorygroup milled Bulgarian. Built in Houston. Old coworker has it now. Hammer forged bbl. It was a good’un!
I am puzzled about why we dont find points like you guys do down south, all I can figure is that the repetitive cycle of fires has broken up all the points. The other thing I was thinking is that early inhabitants were in much greater numbers down south than they were up here? Pictographs are few here as well, you have many, thanks kaywoodie, interesting.
Most all artifacts tell a story of the people that made and used them. The Northern parts of the United States, specifically Montana, were inhabited more by the hunting and nomadic tribes rather than the resident tribes of the south. Artifacts around here are mostly small and utilitarian..
My mother and I collected hundreds of artifacts that were indicative of the local Indian tribes that frequented the area around Yellowstone Park. Most were obsidian, with some chirt and basalt. Most are arrowheads, knives and scrapers.
There was a proposal for a ski area near Hebgen Lake in the early 70’s and an EIS was done of that area where the ski resort was proposed. They heard about our collection and wanted to see it.
Our collection was sent to New Jersey back in the early 1970’s for forensic data to determine the age of the points. Obsidian can be dated by how far moisture penetrated the surface of the material. Other points were aged by the style of the point itself. The oldest point I found was dated about 8,000 years old, but it wasn’t obsidian.
I haven’t looked there for years now, but would assume there are still some artifacts that we didn’t find. I keep thinking I should go back and look for more...
Someday I should get me another AK. Found a whole bunch of mags other day left over from my contract OPFOR daze. Another may come in handy sometime. My old one was nice. An Armorygroup milled Bulgarian. Built in Houston. Old coworker has it now. Hammer forged bbl. It was a good’un!
I got an Arsenal SLR 100H Bulgarian type 3 milled. It runs good.
What you got for mags??? Any Chinese flat backs??? Bulgarian circle 10,s???
Don't know how common it is and I have yet to read any mention of it here on this thread regarding other parts of the country but at least one local property reputed to be an ancient native American burial ground has a almost solid layer of mixed whole with lots of broken pieces of mussel shells just a foot or so beneath the surface. It's located up on top of a rock faced bluff bordering a deep river that flows into the Ohio River.
If you find a good site for arrowhead hunting, there is one rule.....keep it to yourself. I made the mistake as a kid of telling a local guy where I'd found the points I showed him. He got permission to hunt it, and cleaned it out.
If you find a good site for arrowhead hunting, there is one rule.....keep it to yourself. I made the mistake as a kid of telling a local guy where I'd found the points I showed him. He got permission to hunt it, and cleaned it out.
I remember camping as a scout and a friend found what I still remember as a killer Montell. He showed it to the scout leader and he took it away. Fd up but I still remember that. I was pissed
I keep arrowhead spots a lot tighter secret than fishing holes. And there’s a lot more people who fish than arrowhead hunt.
Good news is that unless someone is digging and screening a site I don’t think they really get played out. We find stuff in well known spots that have been hunted since the 30’s, by lots of guys back in the 50’s and 60’s. Still stuff comes out after a plowing or big rain.
Over the last 3 or 4 years myself and slumlord have discovered alot of areas that look like nothing spots to your average high grader hitting the popular well known spots.
Doing probe walks out to probable terrian thinking what it looked like 1000,s of year ago.
huge bowls with high ground around it and valleys leading to it. Water.... long long ago.
400 to 800 yard squares overlap it Cover it fast looking for flakes , source material , points. Confirm it as good or not.
We have found some pretty good spots . And have only hit some of em once or twice.
Not being seen on em is the big thing. This falls plowing will be good for us. Dead of winter hunting also is good. Productive right up to spring plowing and start again. This year coming up is the good cycle between the 2 overall areas we hit.
If you find a good site for arrowhead hunting, there is one rule.....keep it to yourself. I made the mistake as a kid of telling a local guy where I'd found the points I showed him. He got permission to hunt it, and cleaned it out.
If you find a good site for arrowhead hunting, there is one rule.....keep it to yourself. I made the mistake as a kid of telling a local guy where I'd found the points I showed him. He got permission to hunt it, and cleaned it out.
That's why we ain't ever took you with us. 😄
We ought to one day man. James ain't gonna hose us. Take him to pitbull hill. Bring him out to labrador hill
Just blindfold him till we get their and going back.
Renegade, I dunno? Ive never paid any attention. Just a hodgepodge of mags I’m sure.
Can ya take a pic of em laid out kinda orderly and post it
Might be interested in some of em if they are desirable ones If ya possibly might wanna sell a few. Bulgarian circle 10 Chinese flat backs Yugo bho,s Russian izzy or tula bakelite
Renegade, I dunno? Ive never paid any attention. Just a hodgepodge of mags I’m sure.
Can ya take a pic of em laid out kinda orderly and post it
Might be interested in some of em if they are desirable ones If ya possibly might wanna sell a few. Bulgarian circle 10 Chinese flat backs Yugo bho,s Russian izzy or tula bakelite
Just asking man.
Ok. They are in my shop. Will try to get a pick when I can. 😉
I am puzzled about why we dont find points like you guys do down south, all I can figure is that the repetitive cycle of fires has broken up all the points. The other thing I was thinking is that early inhabitants were in much greater numbers down south than they were up here? Pictographs are few here as well, you have many, thanks kaywoodie, interesting.
Most all artifacts tell a story of the people that made and used them. The Northern parts of the United States, specifically Montana, were inhabited more by the hunting and nomadic tribes rather than the resident tribes of the south. Artifacts around here are mostly small and utilitarian..
My mother and I collected hundreds of artifacts that were indicative of the local Indian tribes that frequented the area around Yellowstone Park. Most were obsidian, with some chirt and basalt. Most are arrowheads, knives and scrapers.
There was a proposal for a ski area near Hebgen Lake in the early 70’s and an EIS was done of that area where the ski resort was proposed. They heard about our collection and wanted to see it.
Our collection was sent to New Jersey back in the early 1970’s for forensic data to determine the age of the points. Obsidian can be dated by how far moisture penetrated the surface of the material. Other points were aged by the style of the point itself. The oldest point I found was dated about 8,000 years old, but it wasn’t obsidian.
I haven’t looked there for years now, but would assume there are still some artifacts that we didn’t find. I keep thinking I should go back and look for more...
Thanks for that, I do wonder the role fire plays in recovering artifacts intact, or at all, interesting.
I am puzzled about why we dont find points like you guys do down south, all I can figure is that the repetitive cycle of fires has broken up all the points. The other thing I was thinking is that early inhabitants were in much greater numbers down south than they were up here? Pictographs are few here as well, you have many, thanks kaywoodie, interesting.
Most all artifacts tell a story of the people that made and used them. The Northern parts of the United States, specifically Montana, were inhabited more by the hunting and nomadic tribes rather than the resident tribes of the south. Artifacts around here are mostly small and utilitarian..
My mother and I collected hundreds of artifacts that were indicative of the local Indian tribes that frequented the area around Yellowstone Park. Most were obsidian, with some chirt and basalt. Most are arrowheads, knives and scrapers.
There was a proposal for a ski area near Hebgen Lake in the early 70’s and an EIS was done of that area where the ski resort was proposed. They heard about our collection and wanted to see it.
Our collection was sent to New Jersey back in the early 1970’s for forensic data to determine the age of the points. Obsidian can be dated by how far moisture penetrated the surface of the material. Other points were aged by the style of the point itself. The oldest point I found was dated about 8,000 years old, but it wasn’t obsidian.
I haven’t looked there for years now, but would assume there are still some artifacts that we didn’t find. I keep thinking I should go back and look for more...
Thanks for that, I do wonder the role fire plays in recovering artifacts intact, or at all, interesting.
I don’t think fire has much to do with the degradation of the artifact as much as how the tool was used and hundreds if not thousands of years being exposed to changes in the soil and freezing more so than fire. All our stuff was collected near water in an area unlikely to see much fire. Imperfect points are very common and I attribute that to use.
Arrows were shot from a bow which would certainly cause fractures and knives and other tools were used in a manner that would easily break them. Every artifact I found was always with the hope of it being complete, but more often than not, that wasn’t the case...
Taking a young person out looking for points is a great thing to do! I still remember finding points near the river with my parents when I was about 6 or 7. About 60 years later and I'm still hooked but mostly make my own.
You have to watch out for those young eyes though! They will see something way before an old set of eyes will pick up on it...
There is something very spiritual about picking up a rock that no man has touched for hundreds, maybe thousands of years. It doesn't need explaining to most folks, typology and such, (I personally love that part of it) they just feel it and get hooked...
These days, I get more shakes from pulling a worked rock than I do about killing a Spring Gobbler...............
Still knocking out some obsidian points here. Took one (about 4 1/2 incher) to fundraiser last week and it earned $90. Winner said he would have been willing to go substantially higher, so he was happy.
Used to have alot of artifacts, but not much anymore. This piece always was my favorite, found in mid 60's here in Northern Ca. Part of a tomahawk, or fleshing tool ? Showed it to a so called "expert" once, and he said couldnt have come from my area.
Used to have alot of artifacts, but not much anymore. This piece always was my favorite, found in mid 60's here in Northern Ca. Part of a tomahawk, or fleshing tool ? Showed it to a so called "expert" once, and he said couldnt have come from my area.
I do believe that jade of some sort was gathered and traded through CA. I also believe that's the material of your tool.
The reason I got interested in the origins of this material, is because I found an Early Triangular point made from it, about 1200 miles from any known source. That tells the story of how well traveled the trading was, even towards the end of the Paleo era.
Used to have alot of artifacts, but not much anymore. This piece always was my favorite, found in mid 60's here in Northern Ca. Part of a tomahawk, or fleshing tool ? Showed it to a so called "expert" once, and he said couldnt have come from my area.
I do believe that jade of some sort was gathered and traded through CA. I also believe that's the material of your tool.
The reason I got interested in the origins of this material, is because I found an Early Triangular point made from it, about 1200 miles from any known source. That tells the story of how well traveled the trading was, even towards the end of the Paleo era.
Used to have alot of artifacts, but not much anymore. This piece always was my favorite, found in mid 60's here in Northern Ca. Part of a tomahawk, or fleshing tool ? Showed it to a so called "expert" once, and he said couldnt have come from my area.
Looks like well-worn, hand (or water) polished California Serpentine tool to me, an amateur armchair geologist. Serpentine is the California state rock (for what that's worth).
I've been doing some hunting lately. I've dug, flipped and scoured for several days for nada. Finds don't come easy. I appreciate sucess...as I know it takes time. Thanks to all that contribute to this epic thread.
We’ve got a great field site that’s just been worked we need to go look. Just waiting on a rain, pretty rare this time of year. Last time they plowed it was 5 years ago and Dad, Uncles, and a buddy looked it and found over 40 little Washitas!
I found this little point about 60 years ago and then again the other night when I was cleaning out some stuff. When my brother and I were small boys our parents would take us to look for points on a dirt road that was usually flooded by Ogeechee River. We usually found some flint flakes, pottery pieces and sometimes a whole point. I always liked this one and somehow managed to hang on to it all these years.
I think finding it the second time was better than finding it the first time....
I decided to try and duplicate the point posted above that I found when I was about 7. These things are fun to make...no wonder there are so many of them still out there.
Those are great looking points Huntsman! Those little points aren't easy to make. There isn't much to hold on to when you are applying pressure and it is very easy to break it.
There is a new field being cleared on the property I hunt for points. Hasn't been cleared in over 30 years. There have been a few points found on it already in some fire breaks that went through it. The owner says that if it looks promising, he's not going to plant it, but will keep it cleared so we can look for points. I'd love to find a couple of whole points! It's been a long time...Just waiting on some rain.
That’s a trophy sized Jarfly! Used to catch them and pretend they were an electric razor the way they buzz.
It’s a cicada...
They’ve always been locusts out here in SW Oklahoma where I grew up and live now. But down in SE Oklahoma where my mom and her bunch hail from they’re jarflys. And yes technically locusts are grasshoppers and the bug Huntsman posted is a cicada. But I’ve never heard anyone around here, aside from my nerd wife from Montana, call them by their real names.
Rummaging through my stuff I came across my feeble collection, nary a full point but it is what it is. From S SC/SE Oregon and NW Nevada. A generation or four before loaded up in the same rocky country...
They didn't sit around on their asses and make nutella
hahaha
Well i wanta find a nuttela bowl and grinding stone one time!!!
LOL!!
i've got 2 nice conical pestles. One from willy's another from a bluff overhang. I've keyed you in to a couple other interesting pieces out there in the field and you said "aint pickin dat sheeit up, I only want stuff I can trade for oxycontin"
They didn't sit around on their asses and make nutella
hahaha
Well i wanta find a nuttela bowl and grinding stone one time!!!
LOL!!
i've got 2 nice conical pestles. One from willy's another from a bluff overhang. I've keyed you in to a couple other interesting pieces out there in the field and you said "aint pickin dat sheeit up, I only want stuff I can trade for oxycontin"
Ticks, chiggers and mosquito's are so bad here that I usually don't even bother looking during the growing season. However, yesterday a cool front pushed in with enough light rain to keep the bugs at bay so I decided to put on the rain gear and go for a couple hours.
My favorite ditches haven't been walked since turkey season so I had a pretty good day. Some pottery pieces, a crude tool, a blade, a beautifully made broken tip that's super thin with overshot flaking and a very nice Rice Lobed...
I'll bet some bowhunter's think single bevel technology is new technology, it's not. Best guess, this single bevel Rice Lobed is probably somewhere around 7,000 years old. Interesting that the ancient point is beveled left hand. For reference the modern point is single beveled right hand.
Can't wait to get back into my spots, come on frost!
James Jr., them are just plain cool! Have always been fascinated with arrow heads. Haven't found one around here in years but haven't specifically looked for any. Dad used to come home with one or a piece now and then. He could spot them off the tractor when working fallow back in the 60's and 70's before the CRP program. Now everything is planted year after year with no till. Only good time to look on grassland etc is as soon as the snow goes off. This thread is the most interesting of any I have viewed on the web. Please keep the pics and info coming. Thank You.
I probably should've did that too but it's so damn funny driving by some fields and seeing Dilbert waay the fugg out there in his Fannie the Farmer hat and his Dalai lama walkin stick
Was thinking about doing something with all the crudes and choppers I have. We keep them scattered all over the house on window sills, bathroom sink etc. But the 2 year has figured out what the choppers are. Ouch. Back to the shoe boxes they go.
I have a really good Dalton that’s beveled. Dad has a handful of good Harhay knives that are of course the definition of single bevel.
The Rice lobed is a cool form I wasn’t familiar with. Looks similar to the Pedernales found in TX.
I found my first drill last week, broken of course but I have the 2” tip section. Mom found an excellent pink granite Mano a while back too, smooth as glass on the wear surfaces.
I have not looked very much in the last couple of years. My MS makes walking on rough terrain difficult and takes the fun out of it. I did find one last Spring that I consider one of my best. I'll try to post a picture of it later on.
I had plans to spend more time looking after I retired, but it wasn't to be. I still look, but not like I planned to. I have maybe 2 dozen good sites that I have permission to hunt on and the owners try to keep others out. In the past, notill farming practices hurt the headhunter around here but they are getting away from that. Now its the Government tree planting programs that are getting my places! I sure enjoy seeing all of you'alls pictures!
MtnBoomer: I think you have some intact pieces there, The Paiutes, pushed out into the lean portions of SE Oregon and Nevada, were not exactly known for generating fine art. Too busy just trying to make a living among scarce resources.
Went out with some neighbors and resupplied my obsidian buckets a couple days back. Been hammering out a couple points a day now during my dead time. Have a guy that's interested in buying some pieces and he did not even blink when I quoted $15 an inch. His plans are to shadow box them for resale in his tourist trap community.
I had plans to spend more time looking after I retired, but it wasn't to be. I still look, but not like I planned to. I have maybe 2 dozen good sites that I have permission to hunt on and the owners try to keep others out. In the past, notill farming practices hurt the headhunter around here but they are getting away from that. Now its the Government tree planting programs that are getting my places! I sure enjoy seeing all of you'alls pictures!
If it is hard for you to get out now. Hit flea markets , gun shows, yard sales You might be surprised what you might run across and whittle down on price. Always an option. I put a collection up for sale i had found over about 4 years Excellent stuff Probably about 2500 ish bucks of points to the end of the rainbow buyer i estimated per internet sales sights Grade 7 to 10 stuff
Sold it for 450 bucks. Met the guy at local restaurant Told him straight up 450 was my price He checked em out . Handed over 450 within 5 mins Put it in the local peddler paper Sold within 2 days, was getting all types of calls on em. Lots of older guys who cant get out and hunt for em anymore.
Basically bought a pistol, ammo of various calibers, gun cleaning supplies
Turned stone into steel....
Slumlord thinks im nuts selling em Its fun finding em, its fun confirming terrian has stuff or not doing large area probe grid walks.
Sometimes I feel like finding a likely place and proving it as a site is as much a thrill to me as finding points. I like finding points, don't get me wrong. Kinda like Turkey hunting, calling the Turkey in and seeing the show is a big part of it for me.
Lightman, if you got weak legs due to med issues, you might could focus on small construction sites, especially their 'borrow dirt' piles where they scrape off the good topsoil and save it for the back fill.
If there's any construction going on along bluffs above creek or river systems, it might be worth a shot.
Sure beats trying canvas a couple of hundred acres of open ground.
This Rock was found by my maternal grand father when plowing in his aunts field as a young man. If memory of what he told me is accurate it came out of the ground along White Oak Creek, a tributary of the upper Green River in Kentucky. All of my child hood this sat either on the window seal above the kitchen sink or on a bookshelf case in my grand parents home. It wasn't until the mid 90's that I found out what it was after seeing several of differing sizes on display at the Etowah Indian Mounds outside Cartersville, GA. I may spell it wrong but Chunkee is the word (?). A gaming piece.
LOL! I had to go find my Chunkey Man T-shirt from when oldest son was in school at Natchotoches La.
Chunkey was a game where they rolled the chunkey stone and threw spears at it. ( best as I remember). I think this image of the Chunkey Man came off of a shell gorget that was worn around the neck like a necklass.
It's interesting to see the different shapes and sizes of the stones. The one that my grandfather found seems to be a quartz. It is extremely dense. Upper and lower sides of his stone are slightly concave, the edges convex. I can only imagine the time that it took to shape one of these. It seems that they were held in such high esteem that they were passed down through the generations. There is no such stone to be found in my are of the country. I believe that you can find more examples and
Found this today. On top of the desert floor. Not flint but very sandstone'ish texture but no sandstone here either. Very lightweight, much lighter than flint. Likely my best find ever...
I have a place 100 miles southeast of you Gregg, between Tombstone and Douglas. Ive gathered quite a few artifacts over 50 years living down there, and I'd hazard one in ten points I have look to be the same material with the rest being either pure white material, almost looking like quartz, then some that are a mix of the clear/white and rusty red veins running thru them, then the classic black obsidian. Lots of metates and manos, just found a nice metate while coyote hunting in November as a matter of fact and my first find of a pendant or amulet, made from turquoise, bout the size of your thumb nail, perfect hole drilled thru the top.
Found this today. On top of the desert floor. Not flint but very sandstone'ish texture but no sandstone here either. Very lightweight, much lighter than flint. Likely my best find ever...
I have a place 100 miles southeast of you Gregg, between Tombstone and Douglas. Ive gathered quite a few artifacts over 50 years living down there, and I'd hazard one in ten points I have look to be the same material with the rest being either pure white material, almost looking like quartz, then some that are a mix of the clear/white and rusty red veins running thru them, then the classic black obsidian. Lots of metates and manos, just found a nice metate while coyote hunting in November as a matter of fact and my first find of a pendant or amulet, made from turquoise, bout the size of your thumb nail, perfect hole drilled thru the top.
Cool. Any analysis on mine based on what you've seen?
Hard to tell from the photo, but it looks quite thin? The points I have of that same looking material are pretty thick in the middle and the sides taper down as they near the outer edge. The stuff I find locally down here is Mogollon culture artifacts, up in your area, I suspect Hohokam?
If we were closer I’d bring you one Kaywoodie. I find them pretty regular at one place we hunt and don’t have shelf space for them anymore. I’ll have to find a pic of the huge bull I found last summer, 27” across the horns IIRC and completely intact down to the teeth.
I would have pooped myself if I found a bison skull!!!!
I was in Saskatchewan about 15 yrs ago and my son's found a skull sticking out of the river bank. The guy who ran the ferry there said a fellow found one earlier that day, I guess the herd try to cross a river and don't all make it, cool find. The one above looks like its got a bullet hole in it?
Yesterday's heartbreaker. First of this shape I've found, and have found a couple hundred points in this spot over the last 10 years. Couldn't really find a definite example on projectilepoints.net closest I see is a Palmer?
If we were closer I’d bring you one Kaywoodie. I find them pretty regular at one place we hunt and don’t have shelf space for them anymore. I’ll have to find a pic of the huge bull I found last summer, 27” across the horns IIRC and completely intact down to the teeth.
Damn! When archaeologist son was doing his internship at Texas a archaeological Research laboratory, about all he did for a whole year was organize and catalog bison bones. Apparently they had a mountain there to work with. LOL! He got real good a ID’ing bison bomes🤣.
Here’s a pic of a couple kinda crude chert points, a baby buffler horn, and a heartbreaker of a broken Clovis. The partial Clovis has the finest work of anything I’ve ever found on it, really made me sick to find out it was broke.
Yeah it was a good birthday present to myself. I’m getting a pretty good collection of paleo stuff lately. Not a bunch but good ones. In the past year I’ve found a G10 beveled Dalton, an 8 or 9 brown caramel flint Scotsbluff, and the little Clovis. Life’s good.
NMpistolero that is a gorgeous little point. Really pretty material.
I hear you about looking down the rest of the day. One of my uncles rarely fills a deer or elk tag, though he always hunts. He always finds a bunch of points during deer and elk season though.
Went for a creek walk on Saturday. Found a few good ones.
Buffler Funky little side notch And a perfect little Clovis Found a handful of brokes and some scrapers and knives too but nothing really exceptional
Holy schitt!!! Awesome clovis!!!!!!
Nah! Don't think so.
What do you think it is???
Looks like a clovis thats been reworked down to me.
Definately not a quad.
I agree, definitely not a quad. What stands out to me is the base which is convex or semi-convex and not clovis characteristic. It is my experience, while blades often change by use or sharpening, the haft area typically are unmodified from original manufacture regardless of time period. I would look for a point that has a convex base such as a St Charles notched.
Any of you guys have any ideas for preserving these buffalo skulls. They invariably continue to shrink and dry until they start to fall apart. I’ve got two really nice ones on a shelf in the house and I’d like to treat or coat them with something to stabilize them. Reckon your son might know a trick Kaywoodie?
Any of you guys have any ideas for preserving these buffalo skulls. They invariably continue to shrink and dry until they start to fall apart. I’ve got two really nice ones on a shelf in the house and I’d like to treat or coat them with something to stabilize them. Reckon your son might know a trick Kaywoodie?
I have no idea if this would work on a skull, but about 20 years ago, I found a huge hornets nest, biggest I've ever seen. Cut it down after the first cold spell, hoping the hornets would be gone, and sprayed it down good in clear varnish. It's still holding together.
Any of you guys have any ideas for preserving these buffalo skulls. They invariably continue to shrink and dry until they start to fall apart. I’ve got two really nice ones on a shelf in the house and I’d like to treat or coat them with something to stabilize them. Reckon your son might know a trick Kaywoodie?
That's been my experience with ancient bones/skulls.
I mentioned earlier in the thread I hoped your skull wouldn't do that...
Not much advice... Sorry.
Lost an excellent deer antler knapping tool to rapid decay after I dug it up. Couple of bison skulls, and some mammoth bones as well. Even the teeth seem to crumble.
Thinking there must be some reasonable ways to preserve bone artifacts for the longer term or else there's going to be a bunch of highly disappointed owners of taxidermy and "European" bare skull mounts when they start crumbling away...
Thinking there must be some reasonable ways to preserve bone artifacts for the longer term or else there's going to be a bunch of highly disappointed owners of taxidermy and "European" bare skull mounts when they start crumbling away...
There's a huge difference in ancient bone that has been in damp conditions for hundreds of years, and bone that was recently killed, and kept dry.
I would super glue the large pieces together and coat it with something like XTC 3D. We use it all the time for coating and sealing sculptures. It's a 2 part brushable epoxy used for 3d printed objects. It will dry hard as a rock but will leave a gloss. You can fix that by gently scuffing the whole thing with a fine Scotch bright pad after its cured.
That sounds like what I need Beansnbacon. Where does one procure XTC3D?
I don’t have any big pieces falling off yet but you can tell they’re drying and changing due to the gaps between the bones widening. My dad found a giant elk antler that was obviously ancient and had washed out of the bank at the same place as the buffalo skulls. In no time at all it had cracked and started to sluff apart. A shame really as it came from an area where elk haven’t been around for at least 150yrs and I bet it was way older than that, the base on it was also likely the largest I’ve ever seen.
Any of you guys have any ideas for preserving these buffalo skulls. They invariably continue to shrink and dry until they start to fall apart. I’ve got two really nice ones on a shelf in the house and I’d like to treat or coat them with something to stabilize them. Reckon your son might know a trick Kaywoodie?
That sounds like what I need Beansnbacon. Where does one procure XTC3D?
I don’t have any big pieces falling off yet but you can tell they’re drying and changing due to the gaps between the bones widening. My dad found a giant elk antler that was obviously ancient and had washed out of the bank at the same place as the buffalo skulls. In no time at all it had cracked and started to sluff apart. A shame really as it came from an area where elk haven’t been around for at least 150yrs and I bet it was way older than that, the base on it was also likely the largest I’ve ever seen.
Yeah you need to save it. Smooth on makes it. I believe you can get a kid for around $30 on Amazon. It goes a long way and you'll find other uses for it too.
Not much action on one of the best threads the Fire has ever seen IMO. So I’ll bump it up.
Went for a walk today and found a few goodies. Best two being these itty bitty rascals. A Harrel and a Washita, both perfect and found about 30 yards apart.
Me and slumlord got about 3 or 4 weeks before the plowing and dirt working cycles start up. This thread will pick up dude.
We got a lot of new proved spots found last spring on the winter wheat and soybean cycle. This year is corn. Lots more soil turning and prep to plant. Anxious to hit these " new" spots.
Not being spotted by others hitting the usual spots is gonna be key for us keeping em under our hats.
This guy only plows this field about every 5 years or so. Last time he plowed it he ran a moldboard or subsoiler through it and pulled up old ash and charcoal from fire pits. My dad and uncles found 21 little Washitas and Harrells in one walk that time. If he discs it and we get a rain it should be even better.
We went to the creek before we hit the field site and found a little bit of stuff but nothing spectacular, few knives and one side notch point along with a clear lance. I found the base of what would have been a dynamite Dalton, red and gray Alibates, would have been a blue ribbon winner if it wasn’t broken. Fun day anyway and as the April rains hit it should get better and better as the creek turns the gravel bars over and washes new prizes out of the banks.
2 long term occupation sites we found last year from paleo/trans paleo to late archaic hold alot of promise for me and slumlord.
Another site we found on long elimination/ confirmation walks is gonna produce for us also.
Then we found a blantently obvious spot we gotta be careful getting spotted in or the locust will descend on us.
2 or 3 other short term sites we found.
Then the usual good producing spots.
Also have a long term spot behind the house hoping they plant a delibrate failed tobacco crop on it. Gets plowed seldomly. Everything from trans paleo to late woodland along the cumberland. Would like ta get slumlord down their with me if they would plow it to plant this spring.
Also have a long term spot behind the house hoping they plant a delibrate failed tobacco crop on it. Gets plowed seldomly. Everything from trans paleo to late woodland along the cumberland. Would like ta get slumlord down their with me if they would plow it to plant this spring.
Last time that was plowed, my my hemoglobin was about 7.5. Took me a week to eat a whole sandwich 🤢☠️ I’ve wanted to hit that particular spot ever since.
2 long term occupation sites we found last year from paleo/trans paleo to late archaic hold alot of promise for me and slumlord.
Another site we found on long elimination/ confirmation walks is gonna produce for us also.
Then we found a blantently obvious spot we gotta be careful getting spotted in or the locust will descend on us.
2 or 3 other short term sites we found.
Then the usual good producing spots.
Also have a long term spot behind the house hoping they plant a delibrate failed tobacco crop on it. Gets plowed seldomly. Everything from trans paleo to late woodland along the cumberland. Would like ta get slumlord down their with me if they would plow it to plant this spring.
What about all those fence rows that are being ripped out by that Bobcat work over by you? He’s under the root line on a lot of that
2 long term occupation sites we found last year from paleo/trans paleo to late archaic hold alot of promise for me and slumlord.
Another site we found on long elimination/ confirmation walks is gonna produce for us also.
Then we found a blantently obvious spot we gotta be careful getting spotted in or the locust will descend on us.
2 or 3 other short term sites we found.
Then the usual good producing spots.
Also have a long term spot behind the house hoping they plant a delibrate failed tobacco crop on it. Gets plowed seldomly. Everything from trans paleo to late woodland along the cumberland. Would like ta get slumlord down their with me if they would plow it to plant this spring.
What about all those fence rows that are being ripped out by that Bobcat work over by you? He’s under the root line on a lot of that
You talking that home that had a donkey across from the old midsouth motoplex Or down by gary matthhews at that new ground getting broke half way down the hill across from those apartments.
I have seen both and thought the same.
Spot across from the apartments has old river channel and y intersect creek geology. Just up that valley by the church by gary Mathews.
Its old terrian where the river used ta be at its valley mouth. But I aint seeing a plateau for habitation of any sort.
Beautiful points. I wish the stuff we have around here was that pretty.
I'm going to follow slum and ren some day and find where those good spots are. Might go have a talk with Garnett and tell him that those Tennessee boys have been badmouthing him........lol.
From the few points I've found around here, I don't think the local Injuns were as talented as some of y'all's Injuns....or didn't have the quality of materials to work with. I have seen some good ones, nomads I guess.
From the few points I've found around here, I don't think the local Injuns were as talented as some of y'all's Injuns....or didn't have the quality of materials to work with. I have seen some good ones, nomads I guess.
There's some REALLY nice stuff in your area.
Got friends in Dripping Springs that dig mounds and find some unbelievable artifacts.
Kid, finding 2 of those in a day would be a good day in my book!
I had a couple more pics from a walk we did about a month ago that I hadn’t put up, thought I’d hang them to keep this from getting completely buried.
Tiny little side notch made of clear flint. Sadly the tip and one ear are gone but it’s a cool little point.
And a kinda generic white flint corner notch. This is the third one like this I’ve found in one particular stretch of the creek about 100 yards long, guy that made them must have lost a sackful.
I have a small shadow box I put the keepers in, the brokes and crudes go into my 4 year old’s arrahead box. He has all manner of pretty rocks and broken points in that box, plus musselshells, drum stones, and anything else a 4 year old boy finds and considers precious.
My dad and uncle have some fantastic frames full of stuff. Most that they’ve found but a few that were a couple different great uncles’ from back in the 50s. I’m on the fence about putting mine in frames. I hate to glue them in because I have to get them out and fondle them every once and again.
If ya a hobby lobby around. They got some cotton rayon whatever padded ones that hold in place real good. I made one up , hung on the wall 3 yrs running. Built up a nice grade 9 to 10 collection Sold it, bought a gun Stone to steel type of thing. I get attached to certain things and dont to others
Slumlord got a few nice ones I have given him over the years since he got me into the hobby.
Posted a pic of that shadow box 2 years ago IIRC
Hobby lobby have on 50% off most times.
Mine was like 16 x 12 I think.
This will be year 2 in the search cycle of accumlating high grade stuff
Probably take about 4 to 5 before Im ready to sell rock again.
Dude been collecting em for like 35 + years. Bout yr 3 into for me I gave him a clovis I found 2 days before his transplant. Dude has yet to find a whole one. Least I could do for a friend staring down what he was at the time.
Some of the posters on this thread have inspired me to try something I’ve thought about for a long time but never went ahead and done. I built myself a set of flaking tools a couple weeks ago and I’ve been doing a little knapping. I’m really glad I did because it’s pretty cool and gives you a feel for what it took to make some of the stuff we find.
So far I haven’t made any points out of flint, I don’t have any cobbles big enough to do anything with. But my dad is headed out on a trip to the SW this week and he has orders to find me some river chert cobbles to fool with.
I’ve been using the bottoms of old bottles and jars I find walking the creeks and enjoying it.
Here’s a couple I beat into submission on my lunch break last week. Brown one is a beer bottle bottom and the clear one was an old #10 Mason. Definitely not museum quality but I’m getting better since I’ve made 5 or 6
Went looking at daylight Saturday. Didn’t find much but had a good walk.
Buffalo horn that washed out. hole in the head betta fish Did find this one good point. I stepped over it and found it on the walk back, sometimes a different perspective will make them show themselves. You Tennessee guys need to get out there and find some stuff to keep this thread going.
Some of the posters on this thread have inspired me to try something I’ve thought about for a long time but never went ahead and done. I built myself a set of flaking tools a couple weeks ago and I’ve been doing a little knapping. I’m really glad I did because it’s pretty cool and gives you a feel for what it took to make some of the stuff we find.
So far I haven’t made any points out of flint, I don’t have any cobbles big enough to do anything with. But my dad is headed out on a trip to the SW this week and he has orders to find me some river chert cobbles to fool with.
I’ve been using the bottoms of old bottles and jars I find walking the creeks and enjoying it.
Here’s a couple I beat into submission on my lunch break last week. Brown one is a beer bottle bottom and the clear one was an old #10 Mason. Definitely not museum quality but I’m getting better since I’ve made 5 or 6
Looking good... I taught myself how to knapp several years ago. It is not as easy as it looks and can become habit forming. You'll find yourself looking for hammer stones in the flowerbeds of restaurants, picking up old bottles in odd places, asking people that drink SKY Vodka if they will save you the bottle and buying bottles of wine based on whether or not the bottom is flat. But you can make some cool looking arrowheads out of glass... Ladies love them as a neckless and will bug you until you make them one.
Time spent preparing your platforms is time well spent! Good luck,
Knapping is a great way to unwind and take your mind off things. Mathsr taught me how to knapp and I now have a cigar box full of points that I don't know what to do with. I get the value out of them while making them. I have learned more about what it must have taken for the native Americans than you can learn from any book. When you pick up a chip or a broken point you can often tell exactly what created it or broke it because you have been there and done that. I still wonder about the points people find that are true works of art. I am always amazed at the capability of the primitive people. They may not have been primitive, just different.
I'm not at that level yet and probably will never be but I can stand toe to toe with most of the point makers that lived around here. Most of the points we find on the surface were probably considered the Saturday Night specials of the arrowheads.
Three things that helped me the most are preparing the platform at no 1. Looking for ridges to remove no. 2 and using indirect percussion at no. 3.
New feild today. Aint been rained on yet Me and slumlord went to it earlier today He hit a hillspot He found some stuff I covered alot of ground griding and zig zag it out. Lots of flakes in the dry dirt Lots of fist sized material rock that has been struck.
4 broke tips , thumb scraper, what I thought was a preform. Bout 2 inches long. Cleaned it all up at the house. Preform appears to be fluted somewhat. Kinda thinking paleo lancolate type of thing??? Maybe even a rough beat to crap by plowing small clovis??? 4 yrs ago I found one very similar but grade 9+ to 10 I gave it to slumlord. Probably 1.5 miles as the crow flies from this one.
I saw a video from Africa from about 40 years ago. Some English explorers were hanging out with some little African tribe. I am not sure if these guys were Pygmies, but, they were pretty short. These guys were so primitive they didn't even use the bow and arrow. They had the Atalatl. As y'all know, all the tribes, including the white Europeans, used the atlatl before they "got modern" and used the bow and arrow.
So three of these Pygmies were hunting an Impala. Some damn African game, about the size of the whitetail deer. They were walking through brush about 3 feet high. They spooked up an Impala or whatever, it took off from 20 yards away and it was hauling ass, running from right to left about 25 yards away. The three African hunters let fly with their atlatl spears. The first guy missed, the second guy made a gut shot and the third guy made a lung shot. A four foot long spear with a pretty big head, that buck made about 30 yards and it piled up dead!
I was most impressed. These primitive savages could take down game that most of us guys with rifles would have a hard time killing.
Haven't been able to post a point that I "found" in a really long time. Well now I can. I re-found these points while cleaning out my Mother's garage. They were in a box I had as a boy. I originally found these points on the Ogeechee River about 60 years ago. It was quite a surprise to find them again and I think I felt better finding them the second time around....
Paleo looking and Archaic era stuff Just once I would like to find a big ole paleo lancelot intact like the one on the upper right. Odds of something that would be 8 to 10+ inches long surviving plowing for 200+ yrs. Slim ta none.. Paleo flaked looking hand knife right to the left of it. Rest is early to mid Archic stuff. All found on about a 3 football feild sized hilltop plateau.
Find things this size with paleo like flaking all the time in this area. Always broken.
Have not been out looking, but have had some idle moments when I go outside and knock out a few points. Here's some from the last few days. Need to figure out a way to get the glare off the image though. With the exception of top center (basalt), they're high quality obsidian which is essentially glass.
A quarter for scale (about 15/16" diameter top center) and the left most is just over 7 inches. Had about a 6-incher 90% complete yesterday and snapped it in half. Those pieces go flying into the high grass for someone to find years from now. They'll find quite a few matching sections but never a whole one. Donated a couple in shadow boxes for fundraisers this winter and they did quite well. The balance just keep going into the cake tins.
Need to do something too about the 5-year old neighbor kid. When he sees me outside he comes over with a chunk of obsidian expecting me to knock one out for him on the spot. He doesn't understand that it's a challenge when the cobble is about the size and shape of a golf ball.
I saw a documentary on Tenochtitlan. This is the n. side of Mexico City, fantastic pyramids built long before the Aztecs, by a mysterious race of Indians. As they have excavated these pyramids, they have learned that the city was so wealthy because it sat on a mother lode of high quality obsidian. They made all kinds of points, and also traded bulk obsidian all over Mexico and Central America. It would be as though, 200 years ago, yours was the only country that had a good supply of iron ore.
So, 1minute, you would have been right at home a thousand years ago in Tenochtitlan.
I am still trying to understand the locale question. As in why points, artifacts are found where they are found. I understand that where much flakes and “ debitage” are found is where they worked materials down to points or tools. I have located very, very many flakes and chips. I assume that I have located either camp site or maybe quarry type, beginning of tool making. Is that what I’ve heard called “preforms”??
I have difficulty finding where the points and tools have been left or lost.
I have gallons and gallons of flakes and chips. Darn few points and tools.
Yes. Saw an article a few years back on Tenochtitlan, and obsidian was indeed a significant trade item. One can grind it up, run it through some high end lab equipment for elemental assays and then identify the material's root source. Had some guys through here about 20 years back asking for locations and then sampling/assaying our sources. Some of our materials were traded clear across to the east coast. If one finds foreign sourced but finished products, then the points were traded for. If on finds piles of flakes, then the raw materials where shipped in and shaped on site.
We have 8 or 9 locations in our county where one can gather 100 lbs in about 5 minutes or so on public lands. Quite a variety of colors and various degrees of clarity. With our better materials one can see through chunks that might be 1 to 2 inches thick. If I could backlight about 1/2 of the points in that image above, the transparency would be obvious, but it does not show once pieces are placed on a flat surface. We have softball sized cobbles in our yard and around the property. Adequate material, but not the really good stuff that's available if I travel 15 or 20 miles. About 100 miles away near Paulina Lake there is an obsidian flow with car sized boulders scattered about. It's a Park setting, however, and they discourage taking. Not an issue for me, as it's really not good stuff anyway. I've seen a bit in Yellowstone Park, but it too is pretty poor grade.
If one gets near a few of our good sources and near water, he can find chipped off detritus a few feet deep in some instances. For trading or transport purposes is was far lighter to haul around roughed out preforms than a bag full of cobbles.
We don't have any nearby flint given the volcanic history of the PNW, but with a little surfing one can shake out a lot of the famous sites for flint in the Midwest and East. Deeded property, however, usually makes its acquisition a bit of a money deal.
I went up to the pipestone quarry in Minnesota 20 years ago. Bought a nice Catlinite pipe. There was one Indian out there quarrying up some Catlinite. This stuff was traded far and wide.
Some good finds and nice knapping on that lower right piece. Obviously a right handed knapper. Had he been a lefty the flakes would be running up the face.
Some good finds and nice knapping on that lower right piece. Obviously a right handed knapper. Had he been a lefty the flakes would be running up the face.
That one was a ball crusher also . LOL!!! Laying sideways partially exposed.
Waiting on more feild work and rain. Some feilds are all clods waiting to be smoothed for planting Some have been smoothed but not planted yet
Paleo looking and Archaic era stuff Just once I would like to find a big ole paleo lancelot intact like the one on the upper right. Odds of something that would be 8 to 10+ inches long surviving plowing for 200+ yrs. Slim ta none.. Paleo flaked looking hand knife right to the left of it. Rest is early to mid Archic stuff. All found on about a 3 football feild sized hilltop plateau.
Find things this size with paleo like flaking all the time in this area. Always broken.
Maybe someday....
A buddy found a spear point about 10-11 inches long when we were surveying years ago. Only way we figure it survived was it was buried in a creek bottom and he walked by at the right time after the right amount of rain finally... amazing find.
Went for a marathon walk on Saturday and found a few goodies.
Pink granite Metate, smallest one I’ve ever found, must have been travel size. Walked another 20 feet and found the matching Mano made of the same material. They fit together perfectly. Also found my first Harahey knife, it’s not a really good one but definitely has the 4 opposing bevels. And a paleo point that had been reworked to a blunt or hafted scraper, also a first for me as we almost never find blunts let alone paleo period blunts. The knife is some kind of plain looking chert but the blunt is a beautiful orange red flint, it really pops in the sunshine.
I think Slumlord is out today with his daughter on a place we call pit bull hill. We hit it like 3 rains ago. Told him its his ground after that 1 trip for easy access for him. Been waiting for him and her to hunt it
I got some unwashed stuff from last thursday. Need ta put it up and keep the thread going!!!
Fairly intact triangle point and small spear tip. Still wish I could find one of these 7 8 9 inch long blades or lance,s. Find big tips , big mid sections, big bases.
You guys find a lot of brokes for sure. We probably find two brokes for every one whole. The plow is a two edged sword, with notill we don’t find anything but when they plow I’m sure a bunch end up broken.
Fairly intact triangle point and small spear tip. Still wish I could find one of these 7 8 9 inch long blades or lance,s. Find big tips , big mid sections, big bases.
All the adena based points and the round tool with the broke stem I found by piss break hill. The little spear and the big brokes pit bull hill The triangle and another peice by the corner 300 yd ridge.
The guide already has some mattresses laid out behind the backdrops.
😃
I would be ticked if I whacked a good one and its horns got fugged up hauling azz , or some huge fall and snap sorta thing. High shoulder break down shot on em for sure. DRT em.
The guide already has some mattresses laid out behind the backdrops.
😃
I would be ticked if I whacked a good one and its horns got fugged up hauling azz , or some huge fall and snap sorta thing. High shoulder break down shot on em for sure. DRT em.
They won’t break.. and if shoot one off cliff it falls more than likely it’s in no mans land and you aren’t going to recover it.. sheep hunted couple yrs back, me and my bud were glassing. I was glassing one nasty rock wall of crevices etc, I commented how in the hell we going to get a sheep out of their if we shot one. Both our replies were we wouldn’t shoot.
Fairly intact triangle point and small spear tip. Still wish I could find one of these 7 8 9 inch long blades or lance,s. Find big tips , big mid sections, big bases.
All the adena based points and the round tool with the broke stem I found by piss break hill. The little spear and the big brokes pit bull hill The triangle and another peice by the corner 300 yd ridge.
Very cool man. One of these days have to start a best finds sub forum. Gonna start looking through my stuff
The guide already has some mattresses laid out behind the backdrops.
😃
I would be ticked if I whacked a good one and its horns got fugged up hauling azz , or some huge fall and snap sorta thing. High shoulder break down shot on em for sure. DRT em.
They won’t break.. and if shoot one off cliff it falls more than likely it’s in no mans land and you aren’t going to recover it.. sheep hunted couple yrs back, me and my bud were glassing. I was glassing one nasty rock wall of crevices etc, I commented how in the hell we going to get a sheep out of their if we shot one. Both our replies were we wouldn’t shoot.
I could see decisions like that having ta be made.
I’m working on a kings hawaiian bread sack half full of brokes and tools. Still in the floor board.
Be a hell of a wash day in a couple more weeks.
I got 2 plastic cereal bowls of brokes and about 30 grade 6 and up Probably 7 or 8 em grade 9 and 10. Some interesting small hand tools in em also.
Thank god most of the others on the fields wander around like a pigeon chasing french fries at mcdonalds and dont walk rows methodically looking 3 or 4 rows on each side.
Kinda funny talking about arrowheads and desert sheep. I traded a couple arrowheads to a friend in the neighborhood for this reproduction sign about 4 months ago. Aint put it up down here in the mancave yet.
I’m working on a kings hawaiian bread sack half full of brokes and tools. Still in the floor board.
Be a hell of a wash day in a couple more weeks.
I got 2 plastic cereal bowls of brokes and about 30 grade 6 and up Probably 7 or 8 em grade 9 and 10. Some interesting small hand tools in em also.
Thank god most of the others on the fields wander around like a pigeon chasing french fries at mcdonalds and dont walk rows methodically looking 3 or 4 rows on each side.
Pingers on meth...
LOL!!!
that row crop sprouts and we can do even more methodical
More storms tomorrow, only gets better
Those guys that have “turn the crank and stand at the machine”, head back to work soooooon
Fairly intact triangle point and small spear tip. Still wish I could find one of these 7 8 9 inch long blades or lance,s. Find big tips , big mid sections, big bases.
All the adena based points and the round tool with the broke stem I found by piss break hill. The little spear and the big brokes pit bull hill The triangle and another peice by the corner 300 yd ridge.
Very cool man. One of these days have to start a best finds sub forum. Gonna start looking through my stuff
Take me about 4 or 5 years to put a decent shadow box together again. On year 2 right now.
That Big Sandy is pretty sweet. You guys are lucky to have all that plowing going on.
We have another site 20 miles away, little Big Sandys all over. lots of little reworked blunts too. The later occupations must have found the previous’ brokes and reworked them into those little hafted scraper tools.
Mostly 1” wide by 1-1/4”
Eva, Harpeth River and Greenbriar culture in that same site too.
Fairly intact triangle point and small spear tip. Still wish I could find one of these 7 8 9 inch long blades or lance,s. Find big tips , big mid sections, big bases.
All the adena based points and the round tool with the broke stem I found by piss break hill. The little spear and the big brokes pit bull hill The triangle and another peice by the corner 300 yd ridge.
Very cool man. One of these days have to start a best finds sub forum. Gonna start looking through my stuff
Take me about 4 or 5 years to put a decent shadow box together again. On year 2 right now.
Gonna pull my favs out of frames and post. New project: posting images......
The guide already has some mattresses laid out behind the backdrops.
😃
when I drew my Utah Desert Sheep tag....Sept '13......
pic 1...scouting........I said WTF did I do ?? this may be an impossible tag to fill ?????????
Where ever your tag is,,,,,its up hill both ways........
Desert Sheep live in the most inhospitable terrain known to man......Utah is really that
They can go for many days w/o water.......but they know where it is even before the monsoon season
This fills all the potholes in the slick rock faces ......making them even harder to find
My Ram.....was 7.5 yrs old & only scored 145".......yep a young pup......bigger older Rams.....
10-11 yrs old may never be harvested.....Mountain Lions will find them first.....top of the food chain in these parts
The Ram season is long......mid Sept through early November......then the rut starts.......I had 14 points/years to draw my tag.....
Normal is 18-20 years/points to draw.....auction permits go for $200K + in Utah
Not to hijack thread...but pic 2 is my Ram in Sept '13..190 yds with Tikka 6.5x55
Kinda same way in maine with the moose hunt Nonresident benjamins get drawn way more than residents in ratio. Moose you dont wanna kill cause of no quartering to get em out. Miles from any road. Ones that blow away state records Most moose hunting up their is heater hunting logging roads basically... Legal if you step out 100 ft from a road. Non residents get preference..... benjamins.... Put in for it 5 yrs running when I 1st joined the army. Nada... Put in for cross creeks NWR deer hunt down here in tn x2 20 buck app fee single hunter
They encourage people to have 5 hunters on one application.
Seems same people get drawn regularly here. Friends and family good ole boy system.
Kinda funny talking about arrowheads and desert sheep. I traded a couple arrowheads to a friend in the neighborhood for this reproduction sign about 4 months ago. Aint put it up down here in the mancave yet.
Great thread. Here’s a few I e found since I’ve been here.
We never find pottery stuff.
Not alot of woodland or Mississippian sites left around here to hunt.
Got a spot down behind the house along the cumberland . Where I have found actual Mississippian bow shot arrowheads. Inch to 1.5 inches long, thin and finely serrated. I have also found a real nice dalton base down their also . Plenty of archaic stuff. Long term multiple site thru the ages. Kinda hoping they plow it for tobacco this year. Wanna get slumlord down to it. Sensory overload for the eyes with the amount of flakes on the ground. Actually found an obsidian point down their. Aint none of that occuring east of the rockies.
Trade routes lot more extensive than what people think they were back then. UT Knoxville has actually been able to gas spectrograph samples ofvobsidian points found in Tn and identify the mountain/ volcano itvcame from in the west.
Great thread. Here’s a few I e found since I’ve been here.
We never find pottery stuff.
Not alot of woodland or Mississippian sites left around here to hunt.
Got a spot down behind the house along the cumberland . Where I have found actual Mississippian bow shot arrowheads. Inch to 1.5 inches long, thin and finely serrated. I have also found a real nice dalton base down their also . Plenty of archaic stuff. Long term multiple site thru the ages. Kinda hoping they plow it for tobacco this year. Wanna get slumlord down to it. Sensory overload for the eyes with the amount of flakes on the ground. Actually found an obsidian point down their. Aint none of that occuring east of the rockies.
Trade routes lot more extensive than what people think they were back then. UT Knoxville has actually been able to gas spectrograph samples ofvobsidian points found in Tn and identify the mountain/ volcano itvcame from in the west.
There is so much pottery here that it’s impossible to walk without stepping on it. I have bags full of broken painted pieces and could fill one every time I go out if I wanted. I found a hair bead a stones throw from that pot in the picture. I think that area was a massive camp with mostly women and children. Never found a single arrow head there. The other place where I found the two arrow heads is littered with flakes and quite a lot of pottery shards as well.
Slumlord thought he found one of those big bowl grinding stones. Thing was huge. It wasn't one. Woulda been a major score to us for sure. We just dont find much stuff under 3500 yrs old. He got me into the hobby. I gave him a clovis the day I found it, 2 days before he went under the knife for his kidney transplant. Right thing to do.
Slumlord thought he found one of those big bowl grinding stones. Thing was huge. It wasn't one. Woulda been a major score to us for sure. We just dont find much stuff under 3500 yrs old. He got me into the hobby. I gave him a clovis the day I found it, 2 days before he went under the knife for his kidney transplant. Right thing to do.
That pot is a heartbreaker Dryfly. I’m assuming you glued it all back together? We find a little pottery here, very crude, thick, and no designs or paint. Have a big sack of pretty pieces I’ve found in the SW but never anything whole. A buddy I worked with who is from Arizona said he found several pots on overhangs as a kid and just left all of them since he had no interest in them.
Dam Hunts Thats a nice clear one! wish there were some around here to hunt! Id swap you a Michigan Petoskey Stone for it! one I found at the beach on lake Michigan and Polished! Pm if intrested!
That pot is a heartbreaker Dryfly. I’m assuming you glued it all back together? We find a little pottery here, very crude, thick, and no designs or paint. Have a big sack of pretty pieces I’ve found in the SW but never anything whole. A buddy I worked with who is from Arizona said he found several pots on overhangs as a kid and just left all of them since he had no interest in them.
Actually it’s still out there. I covered it back up and left it where I found it. It was in pretty bad shape. Later on I did go back a couple times to try to find it again with no luck.
Knocked out a couple more yesterday between rain showers. One from black and another from red obsidian. Tried something new for the pic submerging them in a cake tin filled with water. Seems to eliminate a lot of the glassy glare I normally got in past sunlight pics. Larger of the two (red) is right at 6" by an actual ruler measurement. Second is 4 1/8 and a quarter for scale.
Sold one mounted in a shadow box recently for a local rifle range fundraiser. Don't know what it actually generated, but an acquaintance said he backed out of the bidding when it hit $200. Takes a bit more time, but I've also been knocking out a few matched pairs lately. The first is a piece of cake, the second takes a lot more effort.
Getting low on rock, so I need to get out and scour the country for a day. Just another reason to get out though.
That red material is incredible. I would love to find something made from that stuff.
We are blessed to be somewhat close to the Alibates flint quarry and therefore find lots of points and tool made from it. The red white and blues in Alibates make for some stunning pieces.
Yes. One also gets quite a variety of color when those flints are heat treated. No flint in this region at all, but do have a bit of chert. Tough to work, but a little heat can bring it around. Truck loads of obsidian though and it's the easiest of all the materials to work. Have lots of black cobbles in my back 40, but nothing much bigger than softball size. Need to travel a bit for larger and more colorful chunks.
Springcove: Thanks. So far just a hobby with near all simply going into cake tins the kid will likely throw out when my time comes. A good one for me though in that it's an inexpensive mind vacating endeavor that I'll likely never really master. All thoughts and worries are pushed aside when one starts examining and working the angles on a rock.
I wish I could walk around here and find some cobbles like you do. My knapping is more or less confined to bottle bottoms due to lack of local materials.
That Alibates material is some beautiful stuff. Being a Fed Monument though, they likely discourage walking off with a bucket full. Have some Texas buddies that are always threatening to bring me some flint. Wish they would, but the thought seems to leave their memory banks every time they make a trip up.
Knocked out a couple more yesterday between rain showers. One from black and another from red obsidian. Tried something new for the pic submerging them in a cake tin filled with water. Seems to eliminate a lot of the glassy glare I normally got in past sunlight pics. Larger of the two (red) is right at 6" by an actual ruler measurement. Second is 4 1/8 and a quarter for scale.
Sold one mounted in a shadow box recently for a local rifle range fundraiser. Don't know what it actually generated, but an acquaintance said he backed out of the bidding when it hit $200. Takes a bit more time, but I've also been knocking out a few matched pairs lately. The first is a piece of cake, the second takes a lot more effort.
Getting low on rock, so I need to get out and scour the country for a day. Just another reason to get out though.
All I can tell you, is if it is agate, it ain't from Agate, CO, which is 8 miles down the old hiway. The town wasn't named for the rock agate, but for the old stockyards to load cattle cars. They lined the first car up to the 'A' gate to load. Hence 'A'gate was shortened to Agate, when the railroad changed shipping points....
The other place I look for artifacts, other than the home ranch, is east of Agate, out in the breaks....
have found maybe half-dozen broken awls/drills in the camp at home. Well, today I found a perfect one. Rather find ONE of these, than a whole bunch of the usual broken crap......
Huntsman22: Great find. I've picked a few up here, and they are beveled only on the opposing sides such that they actually have some twist to them. Need to chip out a few and given them a try some day.
I need to find a local guy who can teach me how to find arrow heads - I have NEVER found one.
Find a field that is down along a creek, or river. Indians liked to camp near water. In spring time when they plow the field, wait for it to rain. The plow will turn up new points, and the rain will wash the dirt off.
We used to pick up lots of 'em this way, along the Oconee River in central Georgia.
Cant start again till fall plowing around here. Fairly good hunting during the fall and winter months. The spring time crowd cant hang that time of year around here.
Firewood work is complete, and I'm stuck around home for a bit. Just had some cataract surgery and am not supposed to handle over a 10 lb load. I'm having Cookie change the TV channels for me. That being, been knocking out a few more points using several varieties of our local obsidian. These are submerged in water on a cookie sheet. Seems to offer up less glare and makes the colors and patterns pop in the image. Presently looks like there are some Postimage serving issues going on, so hope this shot eventually comes up.
on a side note, I picked up enough chips to finally fill up the 18 gallon green jug. When you think about how many frigging flint chips are in that thing, it makes you realize just how many times I had to bend over and pick them up. It's a wonder my back still works.......grin
I picked up enough chips to finally fill up the 18 gallon green jug
Looks about right, I generate a lot of detritus in my knapping efforts. It goes into the garbage, is packed off weekly, and I've never quantified the leavings. When I have a bit more time, I'll start with a weighed rock, and weigh the point and leftovers when I'm done. I'd guess a 75 to 80% waste pile when I'm finished.
I bet you are a close estimate 1minute. The only reason I pick them up, is so they don't fake me out more than once..... I used to just pitch them in a yucca, but figured they make a kinda unique display their very own selves... These were all picked from the camp on the bluff my house is on, maybe a 100 foot wide by eighth of a mile stretch of hill.
Impressive Huntsman. My uncle has been collecting since his late teens....he’s 65. He has an extensive collection of just about everything the natives made. Found lots in fields but the majority came from sifting river and creek banks near encampments. He just gave his friend (2) 5 galllon buckets filled with broken points. I wish I knew he was giving them away, I would’ve followed your lead and filled some old clear jugs with them. Lots of history there
These were all picked from the camp on the bluff my house is on, maybe a 100 foot wide by eighth of a mile stretch of hill
That note got me to thinking of some past finds and how localized they often seem to be. Back in WVa I worked a farm where one found points on a daily basis on just a single knoll. Ground was just above a river and had a couple nice springs nearby. Cross the river or go east or west a quarter mile and there was nothing to be had.
A couple years back I was helping a buddy on a pronghorn hunt on what was new ground here in eastern Oregon. We started about a 3 mile stalk on a buck and near midway encountered a stretch where we picked up several points, drills, and flakes across about 300 yds . There was nothing on the landscape to suggest it as a potential gathering/hunting/fabrication spot, and we found nothing in the surrounding square miles.
A thousand years back, however, who knows. There's been a recent dig going on about 30 miles west of here with finds dating back 12 to 13,000 years under 6 to 8 feet of soil. Wood in the fire pits is mostly willow and one must travel about 15 miles from there to find willow today. Obviously a different climate and vegetation in those days. It's all a sea of sagebrush and some occasional juniper today.
Our most consistent sites here in eastern Oregon are the small internal basins that have no outlets. In wetter times, they may hold water for 3 or 4 months and support some waterfowl production. The edges of those temporary ponds are usually good for an item or two. Then we have miles of sage with nothing.
I saved about mop 3 buckets and 2 shoeboxes full of brokes, crude tools, tips and such and some big colorful flakes. Got tired of hoarding it all.
Took it out to a spot and while I was still crippled up from surgery,renegade50 returned it all to The Great Plowed Dirt God. Small ceremony, had a lemonade and a 3 musteteers afterwards.
A question: How does one keep the glass clean on that wood stove? Mine looks like crap.
Oven cleaner
This made me smile. I love this thread and always look forward to the new finds that you guys come up with. I also love the collective knowledge contained here along with the little tips and shortcuts for virtually everything. 👍
From arrowheads to oven cleaner this place has it all.
I picked up enough chips to finally fill up the 18 gallon green jug
Looks about right, I generate a lot of detritus in my knapping efforts. It goes into the garbage, is packed off weekly, and I've never quantified the leavings. When I have a bit more time, I'll start with a weighed rock, and weigh the point and leftovers when I'm done. I'd guess a 75 to 80% waste pile when I'm finished.
Have a good one,
I started out working on a blade in a clean place in my garage a few years ago. That made it easy to save all the flakes that were generated in the process. When I was through with the blade, I put all the chips in a zip lock bag. I didn't weigh it but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't closer to 85 to 90% waste. Course it was a weird shaped piece of chert, but still when you start out with a rock there is a lot there that goes to the dump.
After seeing these small points that Huntsman is finding, it makes me realize that the old guys that did this for a living probably didn't waste much of a good piece of flint. They could make a thousand points from the flakes in my waste bucket. I might give it a try myself. Mostly I'm trying to make a blade or big point. (Im a custom knife maker so I guess that is a natural.) I love the looks of those little points and I bet they pose serious challenges all their own.
After seeing these small points that Huntsman is finding, it makes me realize that the old guys that did this for a living probably didn't waste much of a good piece of flint.
Yes. The true functioning arrow heads were quite small. Unlike the English, natives here were not known for making really stout bows. Points over an inch or so were likely atlatl tips or knives with larger points going back to the days of spears for tackling mammoth etc.
I've found a few cores while out and about, and the scars where flakes were chipped off are usually an inch or less in length. Even small flakes most of us might dismiss would have been suitable edges for brief cutting jobs.
Me and the boy went out to the ranch and shot some steel for an hour or two this afternoon. Crossing an old cow path while hiking up to trim some trees around the gongs I looked down and found a worked piece of obsidian. Never found any chips at all out there and the nearest obsidian source is a long hike from here.
Me and the boy went out to the ranch and shot some steel for an hour or two this afternoon. Crossing an old cow path while hiking up to trim some trees around the gongs I looked down and found a worked piece of obsidian. Never found any chips at all out there and the nearest obsidian source is a long hike from here.
How long of a hike? Throw me out of a guess. I love the idea of their trade routes and their material acquisition
Me and the boy went out to the ranch and shot some steel for an hour or two this afternoon. Crossing an old cow path while hiking up to trim some trees around the gongs I looked down and found a worked piece of obsidian. Never found any chips at all out there and the nearest obsidian source is a long hike from here.
How long of a hike? Throw me out of a guess. I love the idea of their trade routes and their material acquisition
Google maps says roughly 400mi to the nearest source I’m familiar with. Of course it’s probably over 200 to the Alibates flint quarries and we find that stuff all the time. They were some hiking dudes back then.
Tonight I found a chunk of turquoise, a busted edge of a knife/spear point, a crude white/clear point, a dandy itty-bitty and a busted red base. I find lots of these dark red chips but very few worked artifacts out of it, only a couple of brokes so far.... glad to find another.
When we pick up pecans in the winter we use a battery powered leaf blower to blow the leaves away sometimes, might be worth a shot. I’d be more apt to search for places where the ground slopes away and there’s exposed dirt. If everything is covered in leaves the rain and the wind aren’t doing much to erode the soil and expose points.
What are those funny looking sticky wood looking tree things behind you in your Avatar ?
But yeah I get it... for areas that don’t have leaves all good.
BUT it’s wooded here so ...
You should go hit up construction sites, anywhere that ground has been pushed off, roads, demolition, landings and clearing for logging operations, forestry dirt roads.
New subdivision clearings and utility layouts, borrow-dirt piles
I’d do all that before I done and raking or digging.
Youre going to get bummed out quick blind digging.
If my places that I hunt and walk went to No-Till, I’d shift to everything I mentioned above.
Here's some more knock offs from the past week - all obsidian:
Quote
I've always wondered if people made arrowheads today, using the same methods as 100 years ago, could you tell the difference?
Barkoff: With a little bit of science points can be approximately dated. When stones are fractured, one has a new surface that's not been exposed to air. At a microscopic pace, airborne moisture begins to migrate toward the interior leaving a visible front as it advances. With knowledge of that rate for our various kinds of stones, archi - types can break out their microscopes, measure the depth of moisture penetration from extracted slices, and come up with an approximate date for when that surface was initially exposed.
Also, I'm not knowledgeable on the sample volume needed, but if biologic materials seeped into surface cracks or beneath partially detached flakes, they may be able to carbon date those. They can also date associated materials from digs and come up with approximate dates. The scientific types prefer finds that can be dated, where as museums etc have little interest in collections having no history.
Buried material will typically have less patina and whatever it carries is usually uniform across all surfaces. Materials on the surface for extended periods will have less patina on the side contacting soil and more mineral deposits on the upside where rain and moisture left minerals to be baked into that surface. That can be a rapid process though in areas with alkaline soils, and points I've left outside can acquire that look in a couple years. Bright on the bottom and dull on top.
A cue for me is flakes that do not completely detach from a point's surface, and near every point I generate carries a few examples. In freeze/thaw environments, moisture can creep beneath those flakes and freezing induced expansion eventually detaches them leaving a smoother unmarred surface. One can immerse new points in hot water, and moisture will get vacuumed into those voids as things cool. Put those in a freezer, and a number of them will detach. Typically takes geologic time and many cycles though for all of them to be forced off.
Lastly, today's knappers mostly resort to modern material for their tools. Antler and bone dull and wear out in short order, and one can be considerably more productive if he's not constantly replacing/sharpening tools. Copper is most commonly employed, with some using softer steels like horse shoe nails. Some high powered chemistry can likely detect those residues.
It's just and hobby, and I've never directly sold a single point. Do shadow box a couple now and then as donations to our Hunter Ed program or Rod and Gun Club fund raisers. Usually go for 125 to $200 at auction, but that's an environment where there might be 200 to 300 bidders around, and there's usually at least two that are interested. Boxed a few up and dispersed them as cheap Christmas gifts to the family and in laws last Christmas. Shadow boxes are only 5 or $6. A lot cheaper than the typical Hickory Farms food basket.
I'm aware of a couple locals that generate some huge and exceptionally well flaked knives and points. They start, however, with rock sawed slabs cut to shape and that facilitates systematic and near perfect herring bone flaking. Likely the guy at this link starts with sawed slabs ( Points for sale link (just an example and not affiliated with that site in any way)). I just start with a rock and hammer them out. About 90% of the effort is percussion flaking to clean up the surfaces, thin and shape, and then some pressure flaking to straighten the edges and chip out notches.
Cookie is tiring of the accumulation and suggesting I box some up and do a run to some high dollar craft fair. Did have a gentleman recently express interest in purchasing some for resale in a nearby tourist mecca. I quoted $15 an inch and he never blinked, but I've not gotten back to him. Then again, if it became a business, such might just ruin a relaxing hobby. Same goes for fly tying, rod building, stock making, and Cookie's photo efforts. Life is comfortable for us as we're retired, not stressed for funds, and live at our own pace.
Have you guys ever found a point and bones in the same area? As if the point used killed the animal they were hunting? I’ve wondered about some of those broken points and if they broke after hitting bone.
This is a cool, informative and interesting thread. 👍
Have you guys ever found a point and bones in the same area? As if the point used killed the animal they were hunting? I’ve wondered about some of those broken points and if they broke after hitting bone.
This is a cool, informative and interesting thread. 👍
Used to all the time, in certain areas... Yes.
The main reason being that when they had a campsite, they would sit around the fire and eat, and repair shafts/add new points.
Native Americans were VERY superstitious about blood. When a point had drawn blood, it was removed and discarded. That's why you find so many perfect points in Indian camps. (And broken ones... and chipped flint from making new points)
They were so superstitious about blood, that a women on her period was banished to a particular bleeding spot/lodge. They didn't emerge until done. If a woman on her period walked around the camp, and her shadow fell across a male member of the tribe, it was considered very bad medicine. (Or maybe the braves were just smart enough to get shut of them and isolate them during that time of month..? )
Not found any associated bones here in E. Oregon, but then again we are not famous for having great numbers of large animals around. A few bison, but evidence suggests they were an inbred lot. Given our coyotes and rodents, I think calcium would have to be buried if it was to endure for 100+ years. I have seen a few long bones with an iron or steel point embedded at flea markets. No idea though as to their authenticity, and never seen any with stone points. In this environment (sagebrush desert), shafts were a much more valuable commodity than points.
Never found bone with points, around here in SE Arizona, the main culture was Mogollon, which were roaming around here 1200 or so years ago....long time for any bone to survive? I have found two bone implements, which were buried about 3ft beneath the surface, and only found because a thumb tip size portion of knuckle was sticking out of a dirt bank along a arroyo cut. I always believed it to be something to make the lip of a pot, but maybe there are some of you in the know on these type of tools and can tell me your thoughts? Its color is rich brown and feels waxy to the touch, like it must have been fat/oil soaked, it's like aged ivory in appearance?
Thanks for the replies gentlemen. I do find this thread extremely interesting and informative. I’ll have to spend more time looking at my feet and less time looking at where I’m going. 😁. Kinda the opposite of what my grandpa would tell me when I was young.
1minute...you do some fine work, just like your wife does with her camera. 👍. Having spent some time in your neck of the woods I can imagine the value in good shafts. Do you have Mock Orange in the riparian areas? Where I grew up in Eastern Washington we had a lot of Mock Orange which, as I understand it, was often used for shafts. There are various forms of Mock Orange across the country but I guess I’m wondering specifically about the Philadelpheus Lewisii (recalling from memory) variant that’s common to Eastern Washington?
Some Mock Orange in our forest and along some riparian zones but moisture limited in our eastern Oregon sage brush country. Shafts ouy here were mostly willow, wild rose, and some of the hardier reeds.
My collection is small compared to some on here. Impressive collections to say the least. 1minute must be part Indian, he makes some great points. Mostly from Colorado and Wyoming when hunting and spring trapping back in the 70’s and 80’s. One was even found on a ground squirrel burrow after i shot it. Wish I could of found the rest of the big one, sure tried.
Smallest point Ive found, spotted it while riding a motor cycle cross country years ago....had an eye for them back then! This bead has a good story. Was just north of the house in the desert with my son, he was maybe 12?, asked if I had ever found any beads. I told him the local alcoholic artifact hunter told me to look in the gravel mounds of ant hills for that kind of stuff. I'll be damned if at the first ant hill, my son picked this out of the gravel hill.
We found dozens of Manos without finding the Metates for years Hunts. Then my cousin told us that they used to turn them over to keep them from filling up with water and busting when they froze. So we went back and started flipping big rocks and low and behold we started finding Metates!
a broken point and a nice thumb scraper. the scraper has a little rough, non-slip surface for the thumb to ride on....
I like finding thumb scrapers. Big ole worked tool type of stuff I give to slumlord. But I keep the thumb scrapers. Some of em are knapped pretty intricately.
I buried my dog cookie on sept 5. Lined his grave with 2 years worth of broken stuff and some grade 7 and 8 points. He meant alot to me. And man has had dogs for 10,s of 1000,s of yrs.
Just a gesture of love and respect in my mind for my dog. He got buried with alot of his favorite things to take with him to the afterlife. I will see him again I'm sure.
That’s a killer little scraper. We call them turtle backs, not sure where we picked that up.
KW I found a little black and white Washita point and about 20’ away a green cat eye marble. Was an old house there in the teens and 20s on a hump on the north side of a creek. Apparently there was a house there a long time before that too, probably made of buffalo hides instead of boards.
My uncle and our buddy went looking last Saturday morning and I didn’t go since I’d been out of town all week working and hadn’t seen my family. They found a stack of good Alibates flint points and tools and a spectacular Celt. Sonovabitch!
Cousins lived outside Portales, NM. They had some sand dune about 1/4 mile from the house. They'd fine tons of arrow heads just on the edge of those dunes, where the grass started to grow. Always wondered why the hunting was so good in that spot, thinking about deer and larger game. Came to realize that "zone" was filled with rabbits and that was the likely prey.
Never know what was under that dune 8000 years ago either. Guy in the OK panhandle back during the dust bowl found a bunch of Clovis era camps full of outstanding artifacts after the wind blew away sand piles exposing ancient playa lakes where the sand had collected.
So what was the purpose of these tiny points? I’ve always heard them referred to as bird points. I would think a blunt would have been sufficient for small game instead of knapping points.
They were likely the only arrowheads that were actually arrowheads. All of the larger points were probably fitted to lances, atlatls, or hafted as knives. So I guess, men, deer, elk, buffalo, turkeys or whatever they hunted with the bow.
All theory of course since none of us were there and they did write anything down.
So what was the purpose of these tiny points? I’ve always heard them referred to as bird points. I would think a blunt would have been sufficient for small game instead of knapping points.
They used them as arrowheads.
Anything they killed with a bow and arrow. Bison, deer, elk, men... etc.
The "arrowhead" was a small point like that.
The bigger points were dart points, and used not with a bow, but an atlatl... A spear thrower.
Those size points are known as dart points, or spear points.
4 mano's, 4 busted points, and a dandy side-notched birdpoint today. Hadta get out one more time before the snow starts tonight.
Very nice and very interesting!
How do you manage to "find" them? Just by walking around and looking at the ground or by daily work. Do you search for them or do you find them just by happenstance? Are there more signs of former settlements or camps from the Indians? Were there foremost Kiowas in your area?
Pretty cool. My dad found an Alibates knife yesterday hauling firewood up the creek bank. It’s no masterpiece but pretty material. I’ll try to snap a pic tomorrow.
Pretty cool. My dad found an Alibates knife yesterday hauling firewood up the creek bank. It’s no masterpiece but pretty material. I’ll try to snap a pic tomorrow.
I’d like to see it.
Tools need love too.
Renegade just heaves those choppers, nutters, metates, manos across the rows to me from his side. He has done went from greenhorn to snob in 3 years 😃🤣
Pretty cool. My dad found an Alibates knife yesterday hauling firewood up the creek bank. It’s no masterpiece but pretty material. I’ll try to snap a pic tomorrow.
I’d like to see it.
Tools need love too.
Renegade just heaves those choppers, nutters, metates, manos across the rows to me from his side. He has done went from greenhorn to snob in 3 years 😃🤣
I even keep pecking stones.
Tools dont trip my trigger very much I like thumb scrapers though. Thumb scraper behind Cookie and Rico,s headstones.
Glad you bumped the thread Huntsman. Totally escaped my noggin I went out yesterday. Lots of soybean straw on the ground, but still good places to search that got washed by the heavy rains a week or so ago.
Mostly broken tips, thumb scrapers, bases.
However the more I look at the lower left paleo looking point. It was the find of the day. Was kinda doubting the flute on the base thinking it was a plow hit. Washed it and the flute patina matches the rest of the work on it. The other side is rough, almost like a "this aint gonna work throw away" back when it was being knapped.
Glad you bumped the thread Huntsman. Totally escaped my noggin I went out yesterday. Lots of soybean straw on the ground, but still good places to search that got washed by the heavy rains a week or so ago.
Mostly broken tips, thumb scrapers, bases.
However the more I look at the lower left paleo looking point. It was the find of the day. Was kinda doubting the flute on the base thinking it was a plow hit. Washed it and the flute patina matches the rest of the work on it. The other side is rough, almost like a "this aint gonna work throw away" back when it was being knapped.
Had not seen this near the front lately and was wondering if anyone was out and about.
Knocked out a lot of points over the winter when wind and precip held off. Getting a little better at thinning things down. Starting to shadow box a few, as lady down south wants to market them in her store. Lots of big buck tourist through there with interest in local crafts.
Neighbor kid brought me a couple nice chunks of black obsidian the other day, so I knocked out a couple of 4+ inch spear points for her. Good kid that swings by to chat for 20 minutes of so when she catches me outside. When out with her buds though, she has a happy/scared scream that will decalcify ones spine.
Good luck out there and hope the fields are well washed,
Fields here still have not been plowed. Pretty unusual for this time of year
Did about 3 miles just wandering known ground hitting rain cleared soybean straw spots. Slumlord was hemmed up with honey do list stuff from mrs slumlord.
Sugartitts wanted that hot tub spring-cleaned. I’ll hit it when it gets flipped (the fields 😃) The plowing seems to be running about 2-3 weeks later that usual.
Just get me doped up like Joey Ramone and I’ll be ready to slap on a half-grimace and a pair of sunglasses and hit them back corners. Actually a big fat doobie and a mtn dew in the back pocket would go a long way. 😃
They must have some kind of odor so you can smell them.
Was this tiny little broadhead lying on the ground and you had just to bend down and pick it up? When I see this I am not sure if these artifacts were created by child labor.
Hijos de las Perras! When I lived in central Georgia I found all kinds of artifacts on the fields near the Oconee River. I got a stone axe that is museum quality.
Five inches long. How many hours did it take to make an axe head like this? Could be 4,000 years old.
Now I live in North Carolina near the French Broad River. I have searched and searched these fields for 25 years. Was just searching a field next to Walnut Creek last week. Not one point, not one flint flake or even a pottery shard. We had Indians up here for 12,000 years but I can't find any evidence of them. Dammit!
i have picked up metric tons of wholes, brokes, tools, knives, pounders, grinders, nutter, pecking stones, even a green-slate bannerstone, adz, spokeshaves, drills.
Never a celt, axe
I think most of where I search is late paleo, transitional, poly-phase archaic.
There is some Mississippian and Woodland peppered into our spots, I’m sure they built Longhouses with celts. Just no such luck.
Rarely find that wahoo, john wayne/walter brennan indian stuff either. Fugga buncha beads from 200 years ago
Down there in Georgia I also found this beautiful point. Plus this piece of Indian jewelry. This is central Georgia 40 miles east of Macon. You can see where this piece was drilled with an arrowhead type of drill. Looks like it also used to have a second hole on the left side. I can just imagine this jewelry on a rawhide thong around the neck of an Indian princess. When I found it, it just looked like a dirty 50 cent piece. But the shape was so unusual, I just popped it into my mouth to clean it off, and I saw this jewel, I almost fainted it was so beautiful.
Could be from the Creek culture from 1600 AD, or could be from 10,000 years ago, who knows? At any rate I was racking up some beautiful artifacts down there in Georgia. Just wait for the farmer to plow the field, in April, and then wait for rain and go to looking. I saw hundred of flint flakes and hundreds of pottery shards, never found an intact piece of pottery.
But here in North Carolina on the French Broad River? Nothing, not a single flint chip.
Interesting, I have also been puzzled why there are not more artifacts found here in my area of North America. I think it could be related to massive forest fires that either destroy stuff or they cover the sites with ash then regrowth of timber. The land around here was burned about every 100-150 years as per the species of timber, that's just the way it was. Any artifacts seem to be found near lakes and rivers.
That is a beautiful little arrowhead, huntsman. I'd like to get in the time machine and go back and watch that Indian make that point, and to be able to talk to him while he did it.
Made it to the creek today, put in a couple miles checking gravel beds and blowouts. No whole Buffalo heads but some good points and mongo sized knife. Biggest Washita I ever found, too bad about the impact fracture on the tip. There’s a pair here if you can see them both. One chert and one a red basalt like material. 10” apart as I found them. The red one is an odd type, beveled and fluted, I need to look it up. The gray one me and dad both have an exact match to it found within a half mile each direction. No idea how I spotted this before putting the window down for a look see in 2’ of stained water. Here it is all dried off.
That red point is fluted! That looks almost like a Folsom point. Where did you find those treasures?
I have been looking for 25 years up here in the NC mountains and have found nothing. Not a single flint flake. I think the Indians around here were vegetarians who did not go to war. Some kind of peace and love hippies, maybe they were smoking that Colorado legal pot.
Made it to the creek today, put in a couple miles checking gravel beds and blowouts. No whole Buffalo heads but some good points and mongo sized knife. Biggest Washita I ever found, too bad about the impact fracture on the tip. There’s a pair here if you can see them both. One chert and one a red basalt like material. 10” apart as I found them. The red one is an odd type, beveled and fluted, I need to look it up. The gray one me and dad both have an exact match to it found within a half mile each direction. No idea how I spotted this before putting the window down for a look see in 2’ of stained water. Here it is all dried off.
I have a handful of tools made of really high quality Alibates flint from today and one heartbreaker broke corner notch made of the same stuff. I’ll snap some pics in a bit
I have found some hammer heads here, real easy to figure these out. But what do round rocks mean? Some are damn near perfectly round,and the size of a baseball or so, then some are 3 times the size and weight.
I have found really smooth “river rocks”, the egg shaped or oval ones like you find on river beds in campsites and middens. Many Many miles from any riverbed. I always figured they used them for grinders or hammers.
Again, back to the context of where you find there amongst what else are you finding them WITH.
the first pic is a pecking stone aka hammerstone- it has impact strikes on it. a lot
The other two in the 2nd pic...??? Just round rocks? Wish I could know. Archaic people, I don’t know if they had time for game balls.
That would be more Mississippian and Woodland Culture but there are points found from that modern era where we go in our Archaic sites. I call them modern. Lol (anything last 2000 years ish)
Most of the finds at our sites are early to mid Archaic, 5-7k before those cultures. We just have a spot with some large order springs that served many different epochs.
I found this oddity in the middle of what I considered an Indian camp, a place littered with obsidian chips and where I found two grind bowls. It looks like an eyeball.
I found this oddity in the middle of what I considered an Indian camp, a place littered with obsidian chips and where I found two grind bowls. It looks like an eyeball.
Mein Gott huntsman, what a beauty! Call the Smithsonian they will send out an agent to pick it up, it belongs in a display case at the big museum. Seriously that is a beautiful point and a real arrow head. Most of the points we find are either spear points or else atlatl points.
found a crude one today. I don't know what kinda stone it is made from, but there is a big outcropping of this stuff out in the breaks. Never found anything made from it before, as most of it don't lend to conchoidal fracture. But there are little chunks of this stuff everywhere, and a snake den on the outcrop, and no chips/flakes anywhere. beats me why this guy used it.....
huntsman, from some of the points you have posted the guys that were making them were really good at it. This guy might have been just trying to prove he could make a point out of that crappy rock. I have noticed with my own knapping that the better I get the more willing I am to try out a piece of rock that I would have never tried before. I recently had a piece of quartz kick my butt. But I have seen fairly good ancient points that were made of the same stuff. Some of those old guys were really good at making points.
I'll be 61 next month. I've been poking around for this stuff for as long as I can remember. I moved my outside stuff inside recently. Wife says it's too much...🤣
I'll be 61 next month. I've been poking around for this stuff for as long as I can remember. I moved my outside stuff inside recently. Wife says it's too much...🤣
Holy smokes ! There's none left. You found all of them
I'll be 61 next month. I've been poking around for this stuff for as long as I can remember. I moved my outside stuff inside recently. Wife says it's too much...🤣
Holy smokes ! There's none left. You found all of them
Questions from someone who's interested in getting into this hobby...
1. Are there areas or states that tend to be better? Any areas where you just won't find anything?
2. Sounds like creek beds and tilled fields are the places to focus on. Any others?
3. Any suggestions on books for a newb? You guys sound like you're using standard nomenclature to describe the pieces you find.
Parking lots.
They suck
I would generally agree that parking lots suck for finding arrowheads, but arrowheads are where you find them. You have to keep your eyes open because you never know where one will turn up.
haven't been out much this winter due to health, but found a nicely worked broken tip today. 5 days after coming home from open-heart surgery..... Gotta do walks for rehab anyway, might as well be looking at the ground.....
Also sorry Hunts, hopefully your on the mend, I look at them little arrow heads offer, like to make it out your way some day! Also shot my Colt woodsmen, last sunday, and thought about the ones you have. Dam I love that gun!
Sorry to hear of your health issues, great to see you posting photos again. My six year old great granddaughter (Avery) and her grandpa went to the creek last week looking for rocks. She found a nice knife/scraper on the gravel bar. Also found lots of worked flint. I went to the same location the next day and found what appeared to be a manufacturing location. Lots of broken flint nodules, broken scrapers, hammer stones, and tons of flint shards. Strange thing found no lance/ spear points , broken or complete. Have no ideal where in the area that round flint nodules could be found. Located no artifacts down creek/up creek for 300 yards'
Leave it to the luck of a six year old to find the best artifact their within five minutes of starting her search. GW
Our local lake is super low right now and the camps on the north side of the creek channel are exposed. We went down and put the catfish rods out last week and walked the shore while we waited for a bite. Funny thing was that some friends who are dying to find a point had been down there fishing earlier that day. Found this base where they’d put their chair. Found this one stuck on a chunk of mud that had fallen off one of their boot heels! And found this ugly but whole point in the edge of the water about 50’ down the bank.
Went for another lake walk yesterday with the boy. Found my first Celt. Unfortunately being underwater for so long did it no favors and it’s eroded quite a bit. But the chisel tip and rounded shape were still instantly recognizable.
Found one big turtleback and a super ugly lance point too.
Pit Bull hill finds today. Place got disc cut about 5 weeks. Was finding stuff on it in january before it got disc cut. Made a thread on 2 really good finds on it back then. 1st time I have it in about 3 weeks. Rain washing soybean straw down slopes and wearing down dirt clods. Needs to get plowed again. The farmer is way behind the curve this year. Probably due to inflation and waiting on seed or chemicals. Honk for Joey.... he can even fuuck up arrowhead hunting.... He sprayed it with weed killer/ pre emergent right before the last time i went out. Couple nut crushers I thought would have been intact in the pic.
Keep our spot active, lay plenty of discouraging footprints down
Total Psy-Ops 😃
The resident pit bull will do the rest ✔️
You know Willy G would be scared nutless of that dog 😂🤣🤣
Lucy zooming by him barking. He would be terrified.
I aint seen anyone on any of the fields yet this year. Might hit beaver lake hill again tommorow afternoon. Aint even hit behind the barn or the rental house. Did go to the deer stand one, the pond flat and that small ridge i showed you by the corner. Hit the flat across the new house.
Places need to get plowed again then planted.
Most of my finds have been on pitbull and beaver lake hills.
Its not nearly as refined as those little points you find, but it is a complete point. Probably from an atlatl. Its way to heavy to be an arrowhead. This is the first complete point that I have found in a couple of years.
Simon the area I look in is around the Ogeechee River, not far from Statesboro. I think this point would qualify as a Savannah River type point. They are one of the more common points found in the area.
I shoulda been putting all my finds on this thread thru out this spring.
Here are some from Labrador hill 2 mornings ago. Raining hard around here since last night. I need to hit some select fields again tommorow afternoon and saturday if possible. Corn is getting almost 3/4ths way up to the knee. Fields are getting played out kinda, but this is the hardest rain we have had in 3 weeks. Give it a last push call it a spring...
mathsr it was so easy to find points in Georgia. Big 20 acre fields along the Oconee River, let them plow in April and then let it rain, there were so many flint flakes. I could have filled a gallon bucket with pottery chips in an hour.
I moved up here to N. Carolina, now I look along the French Broad River near Marshall. In 26 years I have found zero. Not one flake, not one piece of pottery. One of the explorers, Ponce de Leon I guess, met with the Indians in their village on Blannahasset Island, just 3 miles from here.
I did find some nice stuff back in Georgia, axe heads and even a nice piece of Indian jewelry.
Good looking stuff Renegade50! A lot of the pieces that you and Slumlord post from TN appear to be made of some sort of grey stone with long thin flake scars. It takes a good piece of flint to flake like that. Is this type of stone something that is commonly found in TN like a field stone might be? Around here (SE Georgia) all the stone suitable for knapping had to be brought in and much of it apparently didn't knap very well. I think most of it came from around middle GA.
Simon, on the coastal plane of Georgia they have been farming the same foot and a half of soil for well over 200 years. Much of that time was spent walking behind a team of mules or chopping cotton with hoe and many points have been found. I know of people that have thrown away boxes of artifacts that their family picked up over the generations of farming. Arrowheads are getting kind of hard to find in those same fields, especially whole ones.
Where we look is a couple of food plots that are about an acre in size. Only find stuff in a small area of both of them. 100 feet out of the "Zone" and you wont see even a small flake. You can walk firebreaks over the rest of the farm and you will find nothing. In one area we find a lot of pottery pieces as well as flakes, but not as many points. We have also found pieces of modern china, a clay pipe stem, a gaming piece made of pottery that was as round as a marble and buttons from the late 1700's. It must be an area that was inhabited for a long time judging from the variety of things found there. Both places are near the top of a sandy hill that is close to a water source.
I've never found a point, though I would think that the concentration of historical native activity would be high in my area of the straits of Mackinaw. About the only thing I find that others seem to find interesting is Petoskey stones, which are the fossilized remains of an ancient coral that was concentrated in this area. I find them all the time, including a few minutes ago on a jobsite.
Darn, yous guys must have had all the Indains living South of here. Of all the time spent on rivers fishing, and when younger, working on local dairy farms, fields were plowed then, never found anything of interest.
Do have some friends that metal detect around streams and rivers here, looking for old loging camp locations. They have shown me what look to be scrapers and an ax head made of copper found along one of the rivers. Some real cool stuff.
I wish I could find some woodland and or Mississippian axes , celts or pottery around here. I have found a few points down back along the Cumberland when they plant a tobacco crop tax write off .
Pretty strange site one end of the field i have found broken dalton trans paleo points all the way to late archaic early woodland stuff.
Other end of feild late woodland to Mississippian stuff.
But no pottery, axes, or celts.
All the other places me and slumlord hunt are paleo to late archaic early woodland sites long term used based on water sources and geography.
I have been collecting all my life and around here, much is obsidian. Other stuff is found and some are incredible pieces. These artifacts are not only Indian, but the cartridge and cases were used against the Indians during the Indian Wars of the 19th century.
The knife is an exceptional piece, to be so large and still intact. The arrowhead is a work of art, sadly just missing a small part and the scraper is a modified flint from a flintlock rifle made to be used as a scraper...
I used to work with a guy that grew up on the JA ranch in the TX panhandle. His father was ranch foreman for several decades. Sometime in the late teens or early 1920’s, his dad and another cowboy got caught in a blizzard and found a cave to wait out the storm. The cowboy he with found a complete teepee with poles that had been stashed inside. Long story short, the cowboy came back and took the teepee before his father could get it. He said he never saw the cowboy or the teepee again.
Texas panhandle. That is Comanche territory, and the Comanche were master teepee makers. That would be made, of course, from buffalo hide. A museum would love to get their hands on that.
you guys got me motivated to hit the bluff after mowing. good morning....
Very cool! You must be loaded up with arrow heads around there, Don. Do you know why that particular area has so many? Missed shots on a buffalo hunt or?
I wish I could find some woodland and or Mississippian axes , celts or pottery around here. I have found a few points down back along the Cumberland when they plant a tobacco crop tax write off .
Pretty strange site one end of the field i have found broken dalton trans paleo points all the way to late archaic early woodland stuff.
Other end of feild late woodland to Mississippian stuff.
But no pottery, axes, or celts.
All the other places me and slumlord hunt are paleo to late archaic early woodland sites long term used based on water sources and geography.
I know where some pottery and Woodland stuff are. Requires a kayak though
And ya know, kayaks are gay according to campfire recliner boomers.
Found a crude thumb scraper, 2 busted mid-sections, a busted base and unnotched one with the tip missing, and a 264 bullet with no core. Somebody musta been antelope hunting...
Found a mano, a grindstone(not a traditional bowl or metate) a nice little point and a not-so-nice little point. Also found a thin, 'Y'-shaped tool. It is obvious the 'leg' of the 'Y' is busted off, and I have no clue what this could have been used for. It has obviously been worked. If ya know what it is, let me know....
Just a swag but being so thin maybe it wasn’t a tool but a byproduct of knapping a tool. Except for being so light I can see it as a shaft working tool, as mentioned.
"Indian Artifacts"...How about taking a crash course in fuqking geology?
You would be stupid enough to believe that anything Don pictured above was naturally formed.
But Hey! That's how you roll.
Maser / Jason Cardenas never fails to show his stupidity. A lifetime of wearing diapers and living in a Section 8 Housing basement, sure hasn’t helped his tiny retarded brain. 😂
"Indian Artifacts"...How about taking a crash course in fuqking geology?
You would be stupid enough to believe that anything Don pictured above was naturally formed.
But Hey! That's how you roll.
Maser / Jason Cardenas never fails to show his stupidity. A lifetime of wearing diapers and living in a Section 8 Housing basement, sure hasn’t helped his tiny retarded brain. 😂
"Indian Artifacts"...How about taking a crash course in fuqking geology?
This has been a great thread that’s been going strong for over 4 years and 148,000+ views thanks to Renegade, huntsman, salmonella, and many others without a single petty bitch until you showed up.
Pharm, you may be close to right. I believe it is a tool used by squaws to torture their male enemies. It was called a PEKROFF. The old squaw would grab ya by the schlong in one hand, while the other hand yielded the pekroff, and rotated it around the base of the victims peter, and sawed until was severed. The younger girls held the perp down until they were experienced enuff in watching the how-to's of the tool. Hence the Pecker-Off moniker.....grin
Really too bad about the 'handle' being snapped off, that victim musta put up a hella struggle. If it was complete , I'd bet it would still work today.......
Just a swag but being so thin maybe it wasn’t a tool but a byproduct of knapping a tool. Except for being so light I can see it as a shaft working tool, as mentioned.
This is what it is. A chip that turned out looking like something. It wouldn’t last as a tool before it would break. Nothing indicates it being worked, and as thin as it is, wouldn’t take any abuse…
"Indian Artifacts"...How about taking a crash course in fuqking geology?
This has been a great thread that’s been going strong for over 4 years and 148,000+ views thanks to Renegade, huntsman, salmonella, and many others without a single petty bitch until you showed up.
Stop acting like a bitch! 😉🖕
I must fall into the “other, NPC, etc” contributors.
Slum…..I certainly didn’t mean to leave you out. Your contributions here are as good as they come but I think I fall into the same category as others when it comes to mentioning you. You and Renegade are to quote Forest Gump, “like peas and carrots” so I just automatically lump you in with your buddy.
Don’t let my oversight impact your posts because you have some great finds too. Just know that whenever I mention Renegade I’m secretly thinking of you…..😂. Either way….I think you both have some great pictures and posts. 👍👍
Slumlord that is a Clovis point! Unreal. I have been combing the fields and river banks here in North Carolina for 25 years, and have found ZERO. Not one arrowhead, not one chip of pottery. Slumlord can I pay you $100 and come up to Tennessee and go arrowhead hunting with you?
Slumlord that is a Clovis point! Unreal. I have been combing the fields and river banks here in North Carolina for 25 years, and have found ZERO. Not one arrowhead, not one chip of pottery. Slumlord can I pay you $100 and come up to Tennessee and go arrowhead hunting with you?
I don't think that's a Clovis.
But perhaps Slumlord has classified it. I think it's quite a bit later than Clovis.
"Indian Artifacts"...How about taking a crash course in fuqking geology?
You would be stupid enough to believe that anything Don pictured above was naturally formed.
But Hey! That's how you roll.
Maser / Jason Cardenas never fails to show his stupidity. A lifetime of wearing diapers and living in a Section 8 Housing basement, sure hasn’t helped his tiny retarded brain. 😂
Another estrogen induced "Oracle"...
.........
FUQHING LAUGHING
Copper Solid (Maser) has clearly run out of his Benzodiazepine. Sad case.
Maybe he should ask Happy Camper to say a prayer for him.
Not a clovis. Dang shame about that broken Kirk though! Ive hunted heads since I was big enough to walk and Ive only found ONE paleo point, a quad, and it had a break on one side. I had it repaired and it presents well from the unbroken side but still not worth much.
My son found this big spear head/ knife but unfortunately it was dropped on our tile floor and broke in half..🤬 I glued it and it works...the leather wrap hides the break.
I wish I had a time machine. Love to go back and watch that Indian making that point. And watch him make his bow, and arrows. And to see him on the hunt, maybe he shot an antelope. Or, an enemy Indian. That would make a great 2-hour video.
Those are really nice !!! I sure wish I lived in an area where I could dig for points. Here in south Louisiana there's nothing but mud and swamp. I go to Texas twice a year to hunt and get to dig then. I really enjoy it.
The word "mano" means "hand" in Spanish. But, it means "corn grinder" when referring to Indians?
Mano & Metate are both Spanish.
The mano being what you hold in your "hand" to grind the corn on the metate... (the grinding bowl)
Not sure what the Indians called them... Aside from lots of Indians speaking Spanish. Especially in the SW.
I think metate is Nahuatl, Barry. There is also a Nahuatl word for the mano too. But I cannot remember it. Sounds a bit like metate tho
One would be amazed at the number of Nahuatl words used today on both sides of the Rio Grande. Like Guajalote etc. Dr. Pete Gregory prof of Anthropology at Northwestern state univ. in Natchitoches La. wrote an article on the number of Nahuatl words infused into the Adai Caddo vocabulary after they were moved to Bejar and then back to NW Louisiana in the mid to late 18th century.
Vast majority of flora and faunal names used in S. Texas and N. Mexico today are Nahuatl.
Correct, Barry!!! But if you were to use the proper Castillian word here most wouldn’t know what you are speaking of.
One of the coolest things I ran across in research is finding archaic Spanish words in descriptions. An example would be "Buro". We all today know what a "burro" is referring to the donkey critter. But in some spanish manuscripts it refers to elk!!!! Gives another bend that sometimes makes more sense with location descriptions. Like the Buro mountains in The SW Gila. Not saying that’s what the meant, but it is very plausable.
I went on an exploratory mission last weekend. Took my boat across a lake I’d never been on and picked out a point that overlooks an old creek channel that’s now underwater.
It was ridiculous, dad and I looked for about an hour and found a gallon bucket of chips plus 5 brokes and one whole Gary. Nothing really nice but definitely a pin in the map that will be revisited when we have more time.
Been out half dozen times and haven't found squat. Today I found a damn nice, un-broken awl/drill. This is only the second one I've found that wasn't busted..... Cool colored material, too.
That’s a beauty! I’ve never yet found an unbroken drill, points or handles is all I get.
The boy and I took a boat ride yesterday to a couple spots we know that have stuff if the water is low. Still about 1 foot too high to get to the best stuff but we did manage one ugly little Gary.
Been out half dozen times and haven't found squat. Today I found a damn nice, un-broken awl/drill. This is only the second one I've found that wasn't busted..... Cool colored material, too.
Very Nice. I’ve never seen any flint like that before. And I’ve only ever found one drill / awl in 50 years of hunting arrowheads.
Very nice find, Don! I like it. I always wonder how archaeologists will react when I clandestinely place some of your artifacts in an excavation site in Germany while they are clearing the area before another building is errected. For them something to muse, for me to amuse......
Me and slumlord never find grinder things and bowl things. We thought one time we might have been on one out in a feild in front of us about 100yds. Just continued searching our lanes till we got up to it. Big geode type of thing IIRC. Might have been a half round big ole clump of those fossilized tube worms. Dont really remember which.
Wasn't a grinding bowl thing... Never have found kelts or axe head things either.
Dont find alot of mid or late woodland stuff or Mississippian stuff at all.
Early woodland, archaic era,s transistional paleo thru paleo stuff.
California Injuns were vegans much of the time eating a ton of acorns. Kind of set the precedent for this current sc hidthole. I find very few arrowheads.
Didn’t have travel access/permission to venture out in the areas where these are found in Saudi Arabia. So these were purchased from a guy out of Riyadh.
Pandale points, they are knapped with a spiral form.
Pandale points actually start out straight. They get that signature twist after they have been resharpened several times. The twist comes from the directional flaking of the edge that is being resharpened. Cool finds!
Pretty cute photo of my new pup chasing a lizard on probably the heaviest grinding mortar I have.
Decker pup? Do you ever find Manos with those grinding stones?
Yes..Pedigree Decker...She's amazing. She's got big shoes to fill..
Annie was the best dog I ever had. The loyalty and closeness to me was incredible. She would never let me out of her sight. But this pup is going to be a good one.
Pretty cute photo of my new pup chasing a lizard on probably the heaviest grinding mortar I have.
Decker pup? Do you ever find Manos with those grinding stones?
Yes..Pedigree Decker...She's amazing. She's got big shoes to fill..
Annie was the best dog I ever had. The loyalty and closeness to me was incredible. She would never let me out of her sight. But this pup is going to be a good one.
Manos?.. I have found a lot of pestals.
Good looking pup.
Metates and manos are what we call them here. Most are found together as a pair and displayed same.
only thing recent was this piece of pottery found on my recent trip to AZ. SW of Sedona near sycamore pass. Have seen lots of different kinds over the years but never with this pattern AND light blue paint/glaze
there was even a little color on the inside.. Was in a wash with some chert and small obsidian fragments that likely washed down from somewhere up in th cliffs there.
The French Broad River is very low due to extreme drought. There are nice 3-acre fields adjacent to the river, perfect place for the Cherokee to have a village, grow corn, spear big catfish and shoot deer which came down for a drink of water.
The Beagle and I spent an hour yesterday, inspecting the sand bars which extend from the bank to the middle of the river. I didn't see a single Indian artifact. Not one arrowhead, not a single piece of broken pottery. WTF?
The French Broad River is very low due to extreme drought. There are nice 3-acre fields adjacent to the river, perfect place for the Cherokee to have a village, grow corn, spear big catfish and shoot deer which came down for a drink of water.
The Beagle and I spent an hour yesterday, inspecting the sand bars which extend from the bank to the middle of the river. I didn't see a single Indian artifact. Not one arrowhead, not a single piece of broken pottery. WTF?
Too much transportation and deposition inside the river channel itself. Recheck after the next high rain return single event. Is there any bank areas that have collapsed due to rotational slide? Check those heaps of soil and any root balls of trees that have fallen i to the channel and may still attached to the bank. Check their roots and fingerlings and the socket from whence the shoreline birthed it.
Had to go fix hole in the fence across the creek in the cedar brake yesterday. Detoured back thru the one site here on the place and found this one just layin’ there on the ground. Quite possibly an Ensor point.
I took my 4 year old grandson out to look for an arrow head this afternoon. Just had a hard rain and conditions were good for him to find his first one.
This is what we walked up on...I've never seen one standing up like this!
I made him wait until I got a picture. When he pulled the point out of the ground, this is what he got! He was super excited to just find a broken point.
I’ve only dug for arrowheads 3 times when hunting in west Texas . I found 1 point . I would rather dig for arrowheads than hunt or fish but living in south Louisiana there’s no place to dig . I envy you guys that live in a area where you can dig regularly.
This is way cool historical stuff from the Indian War era and found near the Custer Battlefield. The cartridge is a Custer battle cartridge found 6 1/2 miles east of the battlefield. It is inside primed with a copper case. The cases are from around the same area, the 45-70 is later, but the 44 Henry is from the Custer battle timeframe as well. The button is from an Indian police coat that would have been later than the Custer battle, but we found it near the bank of the Little Bighorn River at Reno’s crossing.
This is way cool historical stuff from the Indian War era and found near the Custer Battlefield. The cartridge is a Custer battle cartridge found 6 1/2 miles east of the battlefield. It is inside primed with a copper case. The cases are from around the same area, the 45-70 is later, but the 44 Henry is from the Custer battle timeframe as well. The button is from an Indian police coat that would have been later than the Custer battle, but we found it near the bank of the Little Bighorn River at Reno’s crossing.
You are extremely fortunate to have permission to detect that location. That’s bucket list material.
Posted this before, but this German made rifle was found before the war around 1930ish over in a cliff shelter on the Pedernales river maybe a couple of miles from the ranch here. Don’t know where exactly as Uncle Gordon that found it was killed in the Po river valley in 1944. He found two rifles. The other one got tore up as a cowboy & indian toy
Posted this before, but this German made rifle was found before the war around 1930ish over in a cliff shelter on the Pedernales river maybe a couple of miles from the ranch here. Don’t know where exactly as Uncle Gordon that found it was killed in the Po river valley in 1944. He found two rifles. The other one got tore up as a cowboy & indian toy
This is way cool historical stuff from the Indian War era and found near the Custer Battlefield. The cartridge is a Custer battle cartridge found 6 1/2 miles east of the battlefield. It is inside primed with a copper case. The cases are from around the same area, the 45-70 is later, but the 44 Henry is from the Custer battle timeframe as well. The button is from an Indian police coat that would have been later than the Custer battle, but we found it near the bank of the Little Bighorn River at Reno’s crossing.
You are extremely fortunate to have permission to detect that location. That’s bucket list material.
It is one thing to find cool stuff, it is another to access such a historical site and investigate what happened…
That’s what I meant, Shrap. Simply amazing location. It wouldn’t matter what was dug, if it was tied to that fateful day. Great historic picture comparison too! Love those.
Need to go check on plowing stage. Lot of these from before 1st plowing/ winter " dead fields" Need to go check plowing / planting stage again.
Saving pitbull hill for slumlord per easy access and hot spot.
Some wholes so far nothing really spectacular. Do like that Rhind stone hand knife in upper left. Pretty unique stump the dummy material. Checked entire US material data base on projectile point.com Will post up seperate pics of that.
Oviod blade and small adena on left are from last week. Rest just got home from finding them ( probably 3 miles of walking) Big Sandy and the stemmed serrated kirk pretty decent finds. Couple of em were nutcrusher please don't be all broke da fugg up finds.
Google up "Teredo wood." It's a worm/clam-eaten petrified wood found in several forms.
Along our coast, one can find chunks of modern wood similarly consumed today.
Lots of neat stuff showing up recently. Keep it up troops.
Our chert and limestone comes mostly from a 300ft thick layer of Ordovician limestone. Shallow warm seas.
That is a common rock pattern here, I want to lean toward oolitic limestone. Another guess fossiliferous limestone, duh. But anyway We do have and I have found a few tools and a point made with the hulls of Lithostrotion coral bedded within.
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But still, it isn't all that expensive. I can sell a few points made into necklaces and easily cover the cost of 25 pounds of obsidian. Missouri Trading Company Is the most reliable place I have found to get obsidian so far. ![[Linked Image]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/924/tR3HF9.jpg)
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