I keep reading where, when handloaded with the same bullet and components, the 7x57 will outperform the 7-08. Assuming a modern rifle (M70, M700, M77, MRC1999, etc.) and a 140-150 gr. bullet, identical barrel lengths, etc., what has been y'all's experience? Or all-y'all's if you're from the Deep South?

I'm just curious since even some of the "modern rifle" data I've seen for the 7x57 doesn't seem to be able to touch the 7-08.

The 7x57 is an obsolete cartridge that, when chambered in an obsolete (but cool and very reliable) mauser, makes perfect sense. Otherwise, not so much. Let's say you COULD get another 50fps out of the 7/57 (you can't), WGAS? What difference would it make.

Loaded to the same pressure as the 708 I will outperform it. The edge in powder cap will show with heavier bullets.. With lighter bullets not so much.

Rev,just looked in the Nosler reloading manual #7 and nosler uses a 22" barrel for the 7mm Mauser and a 26" barrel in the 7/08. Now when you subtract 25f ps per inch of barrel,the two cartridges are two-peas-in-a pod.

Lets use the 150 gr NBT as an example: For the 7/08 it's top load is 2869 fps,subtract 100 fps(4" longer barrel) and it's 2769 fps. Now in the 7mm Mauser,the top load is 2831 fps with 22" barrel.

Does this help you Rev?

Physics are physics. Larger engine i.e. more case capacity and the more FPS one is going to get, assuming the same pressures and barrel specs, period. Simple as that. So, an experienced handloader would be able to squeeze more out of a 7x57 than could be had from a 7/08 in a modern rifle. Same way a 30/06 will always outrun a 308, and a 308 will always outrun a 300 Savage etc. etc. This is assuming the barrels and pressure caps are the same, and THAT is the rub. Because there are so many 7x57 '95 Mausers and Rolling Block single shot as well as other 7mm Mauser rifles out there the ammunition manufacturers and the reloading manual writers are NOT going to step on the gas as hard with 7x57 loads or data as they will with the 7/08. The differences become greater when one gets into heavier bullets. With light for caliber bullets the differences can be pretty minor, but the differences are there. It is up to the individual shooter whether the relatively modest gains in velocity are worth the greater difficulty of finding brass for a 7x57 VS a 7/08 or how hard they want to push the old war horse. I just happen to now be in the possession of a really pretty 7x57 Custom built on a nice sturdy Yugo '48 Mauser action, and if I don't re barrel it to something else, I may have some fresh, real world real time data on what this round will do, in my rifle sample of one, anyway. (although the smart money says this rifle will become a middle weight 22/243 or 22 6mmAI)

One last point, the 7x57 is FAR from Obsolete. It is still a reasonably popular cartridge, and as capable as it ever was or more so.

50 extra FPS in the x57 version? Oh hail YES you can, especially with 150's to 175's. Just can't show it in the major manuals, as they will not generally print data that runs in the same pressure ranges as they will run in an /08 based cartridge that will not be seen in a '95 Mauser or old Rolling block left over from the Mexican wars.

It will and does..........

This is all good information. Too bad the lawyers for the powder companies don't trust us to be able to distinguish between a Featherweight and a Rolling Block.

As for obsolescence, that doesn't bother me much one way or the other. The only time obsolescence is a problem is when one can't get components anymore. I don't think that's an issue in this case.

Do any of you know of any sources for reloading data that would wring the potential out of the 7x57?

Elk: yep.

I stand corrected. I still say it doesn't make any sense chamber in anything other than a mauser. If you've gotta go LA, then why not chamber it in 280?

Why are you inserting LOGIC into the discussion?

He isn't.

The 7x57 has a case capacity of ~59.0 grains of water.
The 7-08 has a case capacity of ~56.O grains of water.

Like the fella said above, it's physics and platform.

I've handloaded for both cartridges in several modern rifles.

As a rule, I can get the same velocity with a 140 gr bullet in the 7x57 as I can with a 130 gr bullet in the 7mm-08.

Important difference in the game fields? That's for you to decide....

What BD said! If you don't like his view, ask 'Gwe

You have a point there, for sure. If I was building on a long or medium (30/06 length) action, and wanted a 7mm, I would not pick the 7x57. I would go with one of the belted or unbelted uberfast 7mm's. Inn the case of my '48 Yugo which is too short to fit 7mm Mashburn Super cartridges through the 7x57 makes pretty good sense, I think. Turned out to be a quite lively AND lovely little rifle.

I have seen 7x57's built on true short actions with good success. After all, they are the same case as the 6mm Rem which is often housed in a short action. I don't think those will run with 175's aboard, but with todays bullets I don't know many who would consider a 175gr bullet neccesary in .284 caliber.

7x57 is and would be my choice. I've got each caliber, but if I had to get rid of all my Hunting Rifles, except for one, my keeper would be my M70 FW in 7x57.

Are you referring to a Mauser intermediate length action?

Want another one? I know where there is a really pretty short Mauser with wonderful wood, (ebony and nicely figured and checkered Walnut) and a checkered steel buttplate with the widows peak for sale.....

I have a Rem. 700 Classic in 7x57 and a Ruger77 MKII stainless in 7mm08... best of both worlds( don't know why but I like the 7x57 best)

Yes, he was. The logic is, if you are going to have a long action, why not get a 280. Which has significantly more capacity. And physics is physics.

But if you WANT a 7x57, logic is not important.

It was a joke.

Loaded to the same exact pressure, the 280 will beat the 7X57 and the 7X57 will beat the 7mm-08. That's pretty simple to figure out.

The real problem is deciding what chambering to get in what rifle. True short actions are obvious 7-08s. Medium actions will be 7-08 or 7X57. Long actions can be all three. Get what you want and load to the velocity you desire.

How could this even be an issue?

Thats like saying Heidi Klum vs. Rosie Odonnel�..



sheesh�..

Yes.

That was enough to convince me. Although a scary analogy.

I have an MRC 7x57 on order. The action length is 3.1 - from what I understand, intermediate length.

In any event, the whole point of my question seems to be answered in the fact that there doesn't seem to be anything inherent in the 7-08 that makes its performance superior to the 7x57; it's just that the published loading data won't get near real 7x57 potential because of all the older, weaker actions still running around. Unless I'm really missing something, that sounds like that about sums it up.

And thanks a heap for the visual, Ingwe. If nothing else, we'll not forget your point!

The 7x57 is pure history and panache.The 7-08 is not to be despised, a superb utilitarian round��butttttt�..

Arguments can easily be made for the 7-08 and its utility. Valid arguments. But arguments can also be made for driving a Chevy over driving a Jaguar�..

who is this O'Donnell chick? Head Klum is hot, so I'm guessing Rosie must be super-hot? Do you have pictures?

Thats easy cause your 7x57 is NOT in a ruger !! and Chevy vs Jaguar 7-08 vs 7x57 either some one here is biased or they been to CO. and been smoking some meds.

Having owned and reloaded for both, I can tell you the 7X57 will trump the 7-08 but not by much.

As far as finding data to get that performance, good luck. It's a handloader's cartridge and to get the most out of it you need to keep an eye on the chronograph and be willing to develop your own information for the rifle you are loading for. The chamber and throat dimensions vary greatly and so can the actual strength of the action you are using with this dinosaur so you have to load for it accordingly.

Mule Deer did quite a write up on this some time back for Handloader, but most people still don't understand all 7X57's are not created equal.

In the end, my 7X57 is sold and my 7-08 is not.


Travis

I see you are another one of those individuals who believe all the negative publicity of a Ruger. Do you happen to have any for sale?

Agree totally with ingwe.... and to answer take a knee on not going .280, simple answer, it just isn't a 7x57.

Why doesn't this classless act surprise me?

I leave being emotional about things up to you and ingwe.


Travis

nope all gone. I learn fast.

Do you happen to remember the date of the issue?

Thanks

Mike

No. But I'm sure I have it at home. I can send it to you if I find it.


Travis

I'd really appreciate that.

Mike

There is nothing emotional about my experience with the 7x57...it's "the fact, Jack".

Please, no. Although I have my eye bleach handy.

"In the end, my 7X57 is sold and my 7-08 is not."

We all make mistakes. Mine was selling the first one I ever had. It as on one of those supposedly weak 1893 actions and it was responsible, so I thought for mr losing the very first deer I ever lost. Ive since learned that it was not th rifle but the ammo. The 175 gr. Federal round nose advertised to do 2400 FPS and barely passed 2000 FPS. I also strongly suspect those old 93 and 95 Mausers may be stronger that we realize. Seems like Spain rearreled a whole big bunch of them to 7.62 NATO and they were strong enough for that cartridge. They sold them here in this country as .308 Winchesters. Sure, they don't handle escaping gas as well as the 98 Mausers but blow up because of a fairly hot handload? Could it just be badmouthing put out by the American gun companies because they might not want competition from foreign importers? I remember such activity during the late 50's and early 60's where the gun companies were lobbying Congress to ban those imports of milsurp arms.
Anyway, I don't own a 7-08 but do have three rifles in 7x57. A Ruger #1A, a Winchester M70 XTR FWT and a custom built on an FN Mauser action. The Ruger has a very long throat and is happiest with the 175 gr. round nose bullets. Does quite well with the 175 gr. Hornady spire point bullet also. The M70 seems to shoot just about anything well as does the Mauser. The Mauser need load that hold less powder than loads for the winchester yet does an average of 100 FPS more velocity with the same bullet weight. ne day I was plaing wwith a load using the 175 gr. Hornady RN trying to duplicate the original 2300 FPS load that the 7x57 made it's reputation on. The Ruger did 2310 FPS and the Winchester 2330 FPS. The same load in the custom Mauser did 2410 FPS. The Mauser has a match grade chamber and barrel which I think may be resposible for the higher velocity. The more I play with my 7x57 rifles the more I like that cartridge.
Would I ever buy a 7-08? I dunno? I don'y need one nor do I particularly want one. Maybe if the price was awfully right. Then I might see what all the fuss is about.
Paul B.

The 7X57 fans are usually like Paul. They haven't tried the better cartridge...


Travis

If your heart wasn't hard, and your soul wasn't black, you could get emotional about things.

We could sit around the Campfire and sing " Feelings" together.


And hug.

Oh brother....

Hey. I wasn't asking for anything unnatural�like he and BGG do�..



Not that theres anything wrong with that�...

See the type of crowd you'll be associating with?

Hope you like stories about brain shot elephants...


Travis

BGG won't shooting anything with a .284 diameter bullet because they're all "Metric garbage."


Travis

BGG is prejudiced against the European Union and Canada, I'll bet.

Actually, he's prejudiced against everything he doesn't currently own.



Travis

All I was looking for was some reloading data!!

Does he have a 5.56mm?

Yeah, and so far I'm the only one to get it for you!


Travis

All you'll need is data for the 7x57.

I can help with that�..

Oh of course.

Loves Conquest scopes too. Hates Japanese vehicles, yet his son drives a Yamaha.

Yeah...



Travis

Soooooo BGG is a multi-faceted individual. Much like yourself...

7x57 is so yesterday, official cartridge of AARP and romantics everwhere.

Definition of a high maintenance cartridge, different spec, pressures, throating, actions etc.

7mm-08: clear, concise, efficient.

270 Win: beats both

That last statement could get you " Double Secret Probation"�.and it would be well deserved!

If the 7-08 and 7x57 are truly ballistic twins, and if a 7-08 can topple a ram at 500 yards, surely an adequately loaded 7x57 should be able to do the same. But it's really an academic question for me since most of my shots on game are less than 100 yards and even the equivalent of Remington's Managed Recoil loads are entirely adequate at that range.

Joking about the 7x57 is a sure path to smoking turds in hell.

I'm going to head out to the lease this afternoon. Maybe I can get a geriatric hog to hobble up to one of the feeders so this AARP member can clobber him with an equally geriatric cartridge. Assuming, of course, that he doesn't move out of the way between the time I pull the trigger and the bullet actually arrives.

Poor cellphone camera picture, but a couple of weeks ago on the closing day of deer season.

There is something to that. The 7x57 does kill a lot of old trophy animals�.including elephant. We can talk about that sometime when Flave isn't eavesdropping.
He'll get jealous.

Double secret & smoking a turd... day is looking up already



I am having a 300 H&H built, does that get me off probation and put the fire out?

Elephants are stunt shooting

Me thinks that it was the bullet that did the heavy lifting, cartridge was irrelevant.

You are too analytical.


Quit it.

Using the 56 to 59 gr. capacity comparison, that translates to 5.35% difference, and using Muledeer's formula of 4% increase in capacity giving you 1% increase in velocity, that comes to 1.33%, which means 35 fps more with a 140-gr. bullet (assuming same pressure).

That difference is hardly grist for an argument in favour of the 7x57. On the7-08 side, it's certainly the case that reloading is usually an easier proposition, considering all the different chamber/throat issues with the Mauser. But still, not a big point, as anyone with a 7x57 can work those issues out and come up with an accurate load.

The real difference would lie more in the realm of panache, class, and nostalgia, which is more important to some than it is to others.

That'll dang sure help!

Help me out: If the rifle has been made in the last, say, 10 years, wouldn't all that be standardized by now?

The other real difference, at least in factory rifles, is that the 7x57 is set up to handle heavy bullets. If you are going to shoot 140s, it doesn't matter what you get�.but if you want the heavies, the 7x57 is the way to go. I used one extensively on a lot of different game of varying sizes, and it killed them all!

No.

Because some of these dinosaurs still want 4" throats so they can shoot 175gr elephant bullets and others want short throats so they can shoot the 120gt TSX.

Add that all up and you get a big abortion. AKA The 7x57.


Travis

Here you go, Padre. Bob Hagel's "modern" loads in a Ruger M77 22" barrel is a start.

139 gr. Hornady, 53 gr. 4350, 2904 fps

150 gr. Nosler Partition, 53 gr. 4350 2880 fps

Bob Hagel's caveat: These loads were all near maximum in the test rifle and should be approached from 3 gr. below. It will be noted that powder charges are heavier and velocities higher than shown in any of the reloading manuals. The reason is that the manual loads are held to low pressures for older rifles with actions of doubtful strength, while the Ruger M-77 is a modern, strong action.

There is a plethora of loads in these publications.

7X57 Mauser References

2012- Rifle Magazine, Fall 2012 Special Edition, 7X57mm Mauser, Dave Scovill

Rifle Magazine, Fall 2012 Special Edition, Contemporaries of the 7x57, Mike Venturino

Rifle Magazine, Fall 2012 Special Edition, The 7mm Comes Full Circle, John Haviland

Rifle Magazine, Fall 2012 Special Edition, Seven Deadly Millimeters, Ron Spomer

Rifle Magazine, Fall 2012 Special Edition, The Legacy of the 7x57, John Barsness

Rifle Magazine, Fall 2012 Special Edition, The Commercial Sevens, Mike Venturino

2010 � New Zealand Guns and Hunting, #119, July/August, The 7X57 Stalking Rifle, Garry Keown

2010 � New Zealand Guns and Hunting, #118, May/June, The 7X57 � the 7mm Mauser and the 275 Rigby,
Garry Keown

2009 � American Rifleman, November, A Perfectly Delightful Cartridge � 7x57 mm Mauser, Jim Wilson

2008 � Handloader, #252, April/May, 7x57 Mauser - The �First� 7mm, John Haviland

2007 � Handloader, #246, April/May, 7x57mm Mauser � The Original 7mm, John Barsness

2004 � Handloader, #231, October/November, 7x57mm Mauser � Accolades from an admirer, Steve Gash

2001 � Handloader, #211, June/July, 7x57mm Mauser � The grand, old 7mm, Stan Trzonec

2000 � Handloader, #206, August/September, 7mm�s � The all-American standard, John Barsness

1999 � American Rifleman, February, 7x57mm Mauser in Modern Rifles, Edward A. Matunas

1995 � Handloader, February 1995, Modern Powders in the 7x57, Ken Waters

1992 � Game Loads And Practical Ballistics For the American Hunter, (see index), Bob Hagel

1991-Guns and Ammo, 1991, 7mm Mauser�Smallbore Blockbuster!, Ross Seyfried

1991 � Rifle, #137, September/October, The 7mm Mauser, Ludwig Olson

1990-American Rifleman, April, 1990, John Rigby & Co., Finn Aagaard

1989 � Nosler Reloading Manual, The 7x57 Mauser, Finn Aagaard

1986-American Rifleman, Nov. 1986, The 7x57 Mauser, Finn Aagaard

1986-Guns, July, 1986, Know Your Hunting Cartridges: The 7mm Mauser, Ed Matunas

1984 � Outdoor Life, March, The 7x57 Mauser, Jim Carmichael

1983 � Handloader, #102, March/April, light hunting bullets in the 7x57mm, Mike Venturino

1982 � Rifle, #83, September/October, Model 70 Featherweight � 7x57mm, Bob Hagel

1982 � Handloader #95, January/February, still popular�7mm Mauser, Ken Waters

1977 � Handloader, #66, March/ April, Super velocities in ONE 7x57, Dennis Hall

1974 � Gun Digest, #28, Forty Years with the Little 7mm, Jack O�Connor

1976 � Guns & Ammo, November 1976, 7x57 Mauser, Les Bowman

1973 � Sports Afield, August, The Welterweight Rifle With The Heavyweight Punch, John Jobson

1973 � Rifle, #27, May/June, Ruger 77 7x57---, Bob Hagel

1970 � The Hunting Rifle, Big Punch in Little Case, Jack O�Connor

1968 � Handloader, # 16, November/December, Cartridge of the Month, 7mm Mauser, (Staff)

1968 � Handloader, September, The 7x57 Mauser, Ken Waters

1967- Gun Digest 1967, The Mysterious Seven, Robert Sherwood

1964 � The Rifle Book, The All-Around Rifle (7x57), Jack O�Connor

1948 � Outdoor Life, October, Arms and Ammunition � The 7mm is great stuff for most big game. Jack O�Connor

It is apparent in your posts that you are frustrated with the throat of a 7x57. Most of us have the ability to reload taking into consideration a American or European reamer, 8.75" ROT. 9" ROT, 9.5" ROT or a 10" ROT.

I'm not frustrated at all. I own a 7-08.

A 10" twisted 7X57? Holy [bleep]. That's gotta be like the Holy Grail of stupid.


Travis

True dat.

Reverend,

It's the April 2007 of Handloader. On its way under two conditions:

1.) Tell God I did this.

2.) Mail it back.


Travis

Just got the latest RIFLE Magazine in the mail. There's an article on the 7x57 in it. Haven't read it yet sonot sure how good it might be.
Paul B.

Suffice to say, you owned and reloaded a 10" 7x57 and it was a POS, correct?

I believe it was a 9"

(That's what she said)


Travis

Rev,

Beautiful rifle in an obsolete caliber. I'd re-barrel to 7mm-08 & call it all good.

Holy cow! Thank you!

Thank you very much. No need to send the magazine, but I really appreciate the offer. You've given me the reference so I'll pick up a back issue. But again, thanks. Oh, and God says thanks too.

Mine isn't here yet, but thanks for the heads up.

Yeah, my wife needs a rifle of her own.

Rev,you could go to the Nosler website and get the load data.

Sat in a stand and watched one raccoon and five turkey eat every kernel of corn that was scattered for pigs. The "wary Osceola turkey" my foot. I laugh every time I read an outdoor writer say that. I wasn't wearing a lick of camo, and I still could have killed these with a BB gun. Needless to say I didn't get to lob an obsolete round at a pig.

So I'll try again tomorrow.

I'll look. Is it up to snuff?

It's platforms to me that distinguish the two...a cleverly designed and assembled 7x57 on a small ring Mauser of correct length(so the cartridge is not swimming aimlessly in an action too big) is a real pleasure to handle and shoot.

Likewise there isn't a more perfectly matched rifle/cartridge combo available today(IMHO), than the 7/08 and a Kimber 84M in wood or Montana configuration.

As to killing, it isn't hard to make them both work.

Yes,it's the same as their printed manual.

I'll check it out, thanks.

The 7-08 only exists because a 7x57 got drunk and knocked up a 30.8" midget or her 24.3" sister, nobody knows for sure.

Actually, all my favorite rounds pizz me off by being on different case lengths/cases/actions...280/06, 243/7-08/308/358, and 7x57...but I still likem all for one thing or another. I just gravitate to the x57 lately, cuz it's my new, old toy...and is so dang efficient.

I load a 175 gr NP Semi-Spitzer to an OAL 3.276" for this CZ.

Yep, that's good. Thanks. I'll print some out and make some comparisons. Tough to do on this phone.

The twist in that CZ is 1:866 (1:220mm). Great for something that heavy. I'm gonna have to see if I can pick up a Zastava to play with (same twist) since I missed out on the CZ.

It'll shoot the 175 Gr NP SS into an inch at 100 yds and with the 24" barrel the bullet is going 2625 fps.

It's not an abortion, just a woman that does not know what it wants! Some men like complicated woman, some do not.

I traded my 7x57 for a 404 Jeffery, now we're talking elephants!

Oh sure, now it Mule Deer's fault!

Its Mule Deer's fault that I have a .204!


But I was slumming a 7x57 even before I met him, which has been awhile ago...

You got Mensa potential...

Laffin'-

Don't be sneezing' at the Mensa potential�.

Of course it is!

One of the problems here is that while 7-08 throats and magazine lengths are very consistent, they're not in 7x57's.

Many people measure "capacity" of a case by filling it with water to the mouth. However, this doesn't measure effective powder space, with a bullet seated.

Since 7x57 throats and magazine lengths vary considerably, effective powder capacity can also exceed the 7-08 considerably. As a result the 7x57 can run 100 fps faster than the 7-08 at the same pressure, basically landing right between the 7-08 and .280.

Whether any of this makes the slightest difference is another question.

Any difference is difference enough to wring out both...

Elk:

I printed both 7x57 and 7-08 load data, 140-175 gr loads, and the 7x57 is loaded consistently and considerably slower than the 7-08. So it looks like Nosler is loading them down as well.

Mike

They are. And even if they weren't, you'd still have to do all your load work up over a chronograph because we have no idea what Nosler's chamber/throat looked like.



Travis

I solved that issue by ownwing both. And I don't think I could decided which one to get rid of if I had to.

Win M70 fwt, push feed 7x57. My favorite to carry and the action is smmooooth as glass.

Rem 700, ss adl action, 22" pac-nor ss barrel, Micky Rem Mt. Rifle stock in "snow camo", Timney trigger, Leupold VX-3 2.5-8.

Don't make me choose.

Yep, seems that way. What about pressure? Any way to calculate that instead of looking for blown primers, sticking bolts, etc?

Yes. When your chronograph reads remarkable speeds, you done gone too far.

When it reads what you would deem as reasonable (I used 7-08 data and added 50fps) then you done reached your goal. You might be 3gr's over "max" in the book, or you might be 1gr under "max" in the book, but the chronograph doesn't lie.


Travis

Being completely new to reloading, a chronograph is a necessity? I know it is eventually, but should I get one pronto?

Yes.....unless you like running a bit blind.

Yes.


Travis

About 20 years ago I bought a Rem 700 7-08 to see what all the buzz was about. Two or three years later in went down the road as part of a gun trade. The 7mm Mausers stayed in the safe.

Two years ago a neighbor fell into some hard times and was selling off guns and I purchased a Model 70 7-08 from him. Phfft! I was right the first time...could not see what all the buzz was about. The neighbors ship came in and he asked if I still had the Model 70. You bet, you want it? The 7mm Mausers are still in the safe.

And 100 fps is about what a bullet loses in 25 yards. I have both the 7x57 and 7mm08 but my favorite is the 7mm08.

Any recommended brand?

My 7 mm08 is a Remington 700 Classic. It shot very well right out of the box in 2001 but I had it floated, glass bedded and trigger adjusted down to around 2 1/2#. Also had the barrel shortened to 22" and target crowned. Today, I'd probably look at a Tikka Stainless and may anyway. Or a Winchester M-70 Featherweight. Two 7mm08s wouldn't hurt, would it?

Chrony!




Travis

tzone;
I hope this finds you and yours well and sufficiently warm this frigid February morning sir.

While I'm not always sure if my cyber friend Travis has his tongue planted firmly in cheek or not - - I'll say that the early model Chrony my good wife bought me way back when has given me acceptable service.

I'd quit chronographing all my test loads until a couple articles by JB shed some light on that foolishness - and I do deem it foolish to not do so now, especially so since I did have a chronograph.

Somewhere, maybe here even, someone suggested running a known load from a .22 across the chronograph every time and that will give you a baseline for your data as they tend to be very consistent.

So I've got a box of Argentine Winchester .22 ammo that gets shot across the Chrony out of my old Brno first and then I know if it's going to be a "weird light" kinda day or not. Hopefully that makes sense?

If others have suggestions for newer chronographs I'd certainly respect their opinion over mine as again our Chrony is ancient.

Hopefully that made sense and was at least a wee bit helpful for you tzone. By all means do drop me a PM if you think I can be of any further assistance.

All the best to you and yours sir.

Dwayne

No smart asssery on that one Dwayne! I love my Chrony.



Travis

My old PACT ate a bullet on purpose, but my ProChrono is very user-friendly.

Padre, here is a spot of data that gets into things like effective case capacity and modern pressure. Note it is compiled with a 20" barrel. Proceed with the usual caution....

http://www.realguns.com/loads/7x57mmmauser.htm.

Tzone, if you are asking about chronograph brands, mine is a 1985 vintage Pact Timer with the Chrono mod in it. If it ever quits on me, I'll probably try a Pro Chrono. An out of state friend has one and raves about it. I had one of the first Chronys before the Pact. It did OK. Made me nervous shooting over it though.

I don't chrono all my workup loads, just when I think I'm getting close to the max or to check velocity for the record. I normally don't load max loads anymore. It's not necessary, that I can see.

There we go. Thanks!

By the way, I know Elk has a CZ 7x57. Anyone shoot a Zasty in that caliber?

To the OP:

There's not that much difference between the two so far as external ballistics. I like the 7mm-08 a lot, but one strike against it for me is that the powders that made it run fastest for me required pretty heavily compressed loads that were a pain to work with. 7x57 ... not so much.

There are quite a few newer powders available like RL17 that didn't exist back then so the situation may have changed some.

I would make the choice between the two based on whether I wanted a long action or a short action. When I want more velocity, I do not look at small incremental gains, I grab for something with a LARGE increase, 200-300 fps or more with the same bullet weight.

Tom

The 7x57 has the disadvantage of being the chambering for old rifles which by modern standard now have questionable metallurgy. So loading data for the 7x57 is geared toward Model 1893 Mausers and equally ancient Remington Rolling Block rifles. This old cartridge has been used on everything from humans to Elephants. It's respected for, arguably, being the original modern smokeless hunting cartridge.
However if you want better factory ballistics by all means go buy a 7mm-08

Well yeah,the 7/08 data uses a 26" barrel,while the 7x57 data uses a 22" barrel. Subtract 4" from the 7/08 barrel and 25 fps per inch.

Sat in a different stand this evening. About 5:15 eight or nine little pigs came in, all in about the 40 pound range. I picked a nice little sow and put a standard 139 grain Prvi just low and behind the ear. The pigs scattered but her brother figured that without his sister there'd be more corn for him. I did the same thing for him that I did for his sister. Those little buggers are going to eat just fine.

Oh, and that obsolete old cartridge did just fine as well.

Good point. I didn't notice that.

I have two 7x57s and am thinking about a third. Not that this won't start an argument, but I have a .260 for anything I'd need a 7-08 for.

Ingwe and Elk, break out the popcorn!

Two 7mm Mauser and you're thinking about a third,well that means I'll be one 7mm Mauser behind you.

Pretty sure Ingwe will be along here soon and suggest I re-barrel one of my .270's to a .275 Rigby.

7x57 is a Commie cartridge.

I own a Model 70 PF featherweight in 7x57. I won't trade it for a 7mm-08 because I like what I have. And it shoots 140 grain and 175 grain bullets equally well. Can't say that about a short action 7mm-08 !

I'll bet we'd get more respect if we called it a .275 Rigby.

Yeah, I'm thinking my third might be a Zasty. I'll put a Burris Euro Illuminated on it with a German 4 reticle. I'll make it a dedicated boar gun. Of course, since about the only thing I hunt is boar, they're all more or less dedicated boar guns.

If you own a .270, you get no respect�.

So I am the Rodney Dangerfield of the 24hcf. GRINS

Just counted them: 10 little piggies.

You live in the Southern Hemisphere?

Whoever suggested a -08 for a short action, x57 for a medium length and .280 for a long action was spot on IMHO.

No, why?

Nay...I really like the 270 Winchester! But the 7x57 was it's inspiration. Honestly the 270 is the practical choice over owning a 7x57. But I'm a rifle loony. So being practical isn't any issue for me.

Inggway pronounced the 7x57 gtg in 1893. It still applies even after all these years.

Oh and my M70 FWT was wrestled out of my hands by the Mrs. Had two SC built rods. Dad has one and she has the other. They have no shame.

Nice!

Was Ingwe there when Paul Mauser was designing the round?

My daughter scammed my .260 from me and now I am "hot-rodless." I'm not letting either her or Mrs. Rev get near the M70. If I lost it, I'd have to buy a 7-08 and load it down to 7x57 just so I could maintain the experience of shooting such an obsolete round.

I consulted on the project, yes.


You know I would feel bad if I told a real Reverend he was gonna smoke a turd in hell for that�.

Just sayin'

Don't feel bad, Ingwe. I've had people tell me worse.

I believe it was 1892ish when he worked on it. PPM mentioned it in his memoirs. IIRC he mentioned Ingwe doing the potato dance in some kind of sack sling when the design was finalized. Leopards and sewing thread had not been intertined at the time.

Leopards haven't been the same since.

By the way, this evening yet another young sow was unable to get out of the way of the obsolete 7x57. We must have a crop of very lethargic pigs this year.

The pigs must be Democrats.

Hmmm...haven't given that much thought.

It's true Rev,why else would they come in to free food.

You owe me a keyboard!


P

I don't know, Elk. I don't think she was old enough to vote.

By the way, this is the third time I've posted this picture. On my computer everything is ok. On my iPhone the image is upside down. What gives??

Now it looks ok. Sheesh....

Are you talking about the image being upside down? It's ok on my computer, but upside down on my iPhone. Gremlins.

That's a welfare piglet,her mama showed her where the freebies are.


On my computer the pic is fine/normal.

Own both 7x57 and 7mm-08 rifles. My 7x57 is a Ruger 77 Tang Safety I had rebarreled. Like them both, but prefer shooting my 7x57. Never tried the 7mm-08 on our 600 yd range, but the 7x57 does quite well on it.

Curious...replaced the barrel because too many rounds through it or defective barrel?

What barrel maker?

Thanks

Try the 162gr. Gay-Max in the 7-08. Let us know what you think.


Travis

Am not doubting the superiority of the 7mm-08.Little gems like this BRNO 22f, available to the common man today, weren't made in 7mm-08, however.

An old 7x57... weighs 6# 15oz w/ sling and scope bases (coming off soon).

I like it!

Three of those little porkers, along with some of their kin, made it into some pulled pork this weekend at our annual parish men's outing. We're going to finish it off tonight since Lent starts tomorrow. I won't eat meat again until Easter Sunday morning, but I don't think there's any rule against continuing to procure it between now and then.

Ill throw in to the OP that when referencing some of the older articles supplied be careful using the data straight up. I noted that some of them date back to the 60's and 70's and some of the powders have changed slightly since then thus making it possible to create some pressure levels higher than experienced by the author of the article.

Good point. Thanks!

And by the way Ingwe and Elk: the Montana Rifle Company ASR came in today. When I get it cleaned up from all the packaging grease I'll post a pic. Now for a scope...hmmm...what should it be...

Mike

Hey Ingwe; did you ever load and shoot those 150 NBTs at 2500 you were talking about? How'd they do? Try that same velocity in any partitions yet?

Yes I did! 48.0 gr of H4831 shoots lights out! Im gonna take a couple to Texas and stick them in Axis deer. Tried the same thing years ago with NPTs and the rifle shot them just fine�...

Going to try 160 gr NP's in the CZ 7x57,just because I can.

For whatever reason, my rifle wouldn't shoot them. It loved the 150s and 175s�go figger�.

The CZ has a magazine that is for a .270/.30-06 length cartridge. So I'm gonna seat those 160's waaaayyyyyyy out there and see if those bullets will reach 2750/2800 fps.


Oh,by the way,the CZ has a 24" barrel.

I'm betting they'd work great in a pig. Might have to give them a try sometime. Maybe even the 160s since one of my 7x57s has a faster twist than the Winchester...although Elk doesn't think it's gonna matter much inside a hundred yards (and he's probably right).

The 150s are gonna get used mainly on Axis�the pigs will get AIed

Rev,the 160 gr Nosler Partition is my FAVORITE bullet in a 7mm. Have not tried them in the Mauser,but,in 7mm Rem mag and 7mm Dakota they worked on deer,antelope and elk.

Don't know why it took so long to try them in the little Mauser.

At the relatively short ranges I shoot I wonder if either the NBT or NPT are really worth messing with. If I was sticking them in deer, maybe, but about the only breathing thing I shoot are pigs.

For example, early Sunday evening (at 7:11 to be exact) five little hoglets came into one of the right-of-ways leading to a feeder. The right-of-way is about 25 yards across and these little fellows, about 65 pounds each, were quartering into me, but still about 25-30 yards out. At that range anything over about a .250 Savage is pretty much overkill, especially considering that, like Geedubya, I generally shoot for CNS. Two of the little sows winded me and the entire sounder took off like lightening. I had my old M94 with me, but wasn't planning to shoot anyway since I didn't feel like going all the way back to the cabin and hooking everything up just to clean a pig. So, they lived to be hunted another day.

Which will be tomorrow afternoon, by the way.

Rev,at those ranges probably not.


Maybe a .222 Remington would be better.

I've been tempted to run a .223, but with my luck the biggest hog on the property would be lumbering 125 yards away and I'd be kicking myself for not bringing the Mauser. Decisions, decisions...

Take both.

I'd have to hire Ingwe as my gun-bearer...carried across his shoulder by the barrel, of course.

Pay him in beer and whiskey.

Got any idea his brands?

Elk,

I can't get my 7mms with 22" barrels to shoot 160 NPTs into your fps brackets but can with the 150 grain NPT. Would be interested in your results.

Wayne

Rev,I think he likes "free" or some such brand.

Roundoak,will do. Going to load some up either tomorrow or Friday and take it out Saturday.

Careful this could go 223 ak on us.

I'm very familiar with that brand!!

Use the .223 and shoot him in the face.

I could probably get by with a .223 out there.

What type of beer and whiskey do you drink? Elk volunteered you to carry my rifles to the stands.

Beer: Belgian White
Whisky: Blantons

Don't forget the 55 gallon barrel of margarita's.

I was thinking along the lines of what my Dad used to drink: Busch and Early Times...boilermakers!

Doood!

What a way to ruin a bottle of Patrone.

A bottle?


More like a couple cases.

That's the way they rolled in the Appalachian mountains.

Well if you're going to ruin it, Jose Cuervo is good enough.

True dat�.

Jose Cuervo is reconstituted panther pee. yuck!

Every good New Mexican has a shot of JC with breakfast.

And every good Southern boy has a sip of Jack Daniels before turning in for the night...whenever that might be.

Prefer Don Julio "Anejo" tequila with my breakfast.

The old obsolete 7x57 scores again. Who needs its Johnny-Come-Lately clone?

[img:left]http://[/img]

Good one Mike!

Using the Zastava yet?

Good morning, Bob. No, not yet. This one fell to my Featherweight. I have to get the Zastava out on the range, as well as mount a scope on a Montana Rifle Company ASR and get it on the range as well. I expect that after Easter things will slow down a bit and I'll be able to spend a day or two mounting scopes, sighting in, etc.

And thanks. That little boar weighed about 70 pounds or so. My brother-in-law took these two at another feeder about 1/2 mile to the south of me. When I drove down there to pick him up, there were two more trying to push these out of the way to get to the corn below them. They were so preoccupied with the corn, they didn't even see me drive up so I just honked the horn to move them on. Three was enough to clean.

Great topic. I worked with my son's rifle a bunch last year shooting RL17 and 140AB's. Velocity was excellent and accuracy was very good as well. I liked it so much I sorta started looking for one of my own. I ran some QL numbers and was very impressed with RL17 but W760/H414 looked just as good.

Cartridge : 7 x 57 mm Mauser (SAAMI)
Bullet : .284, 140, Nosler AccuBond 59992
Useable Case Capaci: 52.245 grain H2O = 3.392 cm�
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.071 inch = 78.00 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-17

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 81 40.80 2393 1779 31210 9266 93.8 1.411
-18.0 83 41.82 2454 1872 33354 9544 95.0 1.372
-16.0 85 42.84 2516 1967 35657 9807 96.1 1.334
-14.0 87 43.86 2577 2065 38123 10052 97.0 1.295
-12.0 89 44.88 2638 2164 40752 10277 97.9 1.254
-10.0 91 45.90 2700 2266 43604 10483 98.6 1.215
-08.0 93 46.92 2761 2369 46652 10666 99.1 1.177
-06.0 95 47.94 2822 2475 49929 10826 99.5 1.141
-04.0 97 48.96 2882 2582 53455 10962 99.8 1.106
-02.0 99 49.98 2942 2690 57256 11072 100.0 1.072 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 101 51.00 3001 2800 61355 11158 100.0 1.040 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 103 52.02 3060 2911 65784 11237 100.0 1.008 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 105 53.04 3118 3023 70575 11311 100.0 0.978 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 107 54.06 3176 3136 75768 11381 100.0 0.948 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 109 55.08 3234 3251 81399 11447 100.0 0.920 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 111 56.10 3291 3367 87530 11509 100.0 0.893 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by � 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 101 51.00 3122 3030 75042 10685 100.0 0.962 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 101 51.00 2818 2468 49567 11347 97.1 1.142

I ended up right around 2940 with the 140AB.







I am sure the 7-08 is just as good, but man, it's hard to not really like the 7x57 when it is loaded to modern specs in a good rifle. Plus, Norma brass has been very good to me. Keep to sizing it tight and case stretch isn't too bad at at all.

It depends on what you value most, so-called panache, class, tea, crumpets and ruffly blouses or utilitarian functionality with way less guesswork, as can be said for the 7mm-08 or .280, I'll pick functionality in this case.

Also, the 7mm-08, .280 and their parent cases were designed by Americans for Americans, the 7x57 was not.

You probably don't lift your pinky whilst sipping tea, do you?

Two 21" 700s I chopped, both shot 2900-2960 w/Varget and 140s, nice expansion/retention - the AB is a fave of mine.

In a 7x57, not that its needed, but if a throat is generous, I would bump up to 150-154's - feel that would be a great weight for the Rigby, good speeds, recoil ok, etc. Figure they should easily hit 2700-2750.

I will openly admit I'm not that refined, I don't like tea, I drink coffee out of a cup with no handle and a sealed top so I can't spill it, and come to think of it, I don't sip anything I drink.

So I guess a tweed shooting jacket is out of the question�..

Yep, in the summer I don't even wear a jacket.

The rest of the year my shooting jacket is whatever jacket I'm wearing while shooting.

I don't lift my pinky while drinking tea,I lift my middle finger.

Everybody has their own style, I lift my right leg when I pee.

Yup.

Ain't nothing like kicking a cage on a Friday afternoon.

I'm sitting at camp debating whether to head out to a stand for a bit or hang out for drinks and steak. Ingwe, which do you think has more panache? Oh, and I might raise my pinky when I have a nip...but probably not.

Drink in the stand.

Win/win.



Travis

Hmm...never thought of that.

[quote=SAUMHUNTER79

Also, the 7mm-08, .280 and their parent cases were designed by Americans for Americans, the 7x57 was not. [/quote]

Yeah, but I generally shoot it in an American gun. Doesn't that count for something?

Got to the stand and use your trigger finger.

Here you go Roundoak (Wayne) shot it this morning.


And how far out the 160 gr NP is seated in the CZ.

Yeah, but I generally shoot it in an American gun. Doesn't that count for something? [/quote]I suppose I could give you a point or 2 for that.

I'll take it!!

Mine is an American gun too! And chambered in a German cartridge! A good match�..



except in certain "war years"��.

Holy cow, let me know if you reach those velocities and how it shoots.

Windy now,but will take it out tomorrow morning.

Does it take that much to reach the lands on the CZ?

Yes,told ya'll it was long.

Ok today's update.


The group on the right is what was shot yesterday.



I almost reached 2800 fps.



Reminder of how far out the bullet is seated.

I bought a bunch of Norma brass for my son's 7mm Mauser. I had done a bunch of work with it with Winchester brass so I dropped back a little since the Norma is a touch thicker. Speeds were very impressive and everytime I shoot this rifle I am impressed. What really impresses me is RL17. It is really a great powder.

I am going to run a seating depth profile next, but so far, I like what I see. I believe I could go higher with RL17, but I am sticking with 49.5/50.0 grains I think. It is gentle and pumps that 140 out around 2975 or so. Cases look excellent though. Just can't believe how well the powder work with the Mauser. Pretty sure backing the bullet off a little more will bring the groups in real nice.

I had a shift in sunlight out on the range, so I am thinking alot of the flyer's were more me, but most shots broke well, but my sight picture was changing as the sun struck the target.

Any of you all looking for a sweet 7mm, don't overlook the 7mm Mauser. Just an incredible performer when teamed up with a magazine long enough to seat the bullets out a little. All of these loads were at 3.100 COAL. Recoil is very mild and the little Featherweight is a dream to handle.

These were shot at 200 yards.

49.0 grains - 2907, 2932, 2928, 2918



49.5 grains - 2932, 3014, 2958, 2963



50.0 grains - 2976, 3014, 2929, 2998

Good post. You mentioned 140 grains but not bullet type. What were you shooting?

Here's a Zastava Mauser with Burris 3-9x40 Euro LRS. Nice scope but I had to mount it pretty far back to get full view with comfortable eye relief. If I move it forward my nose is almost resting on my knuckle. Mounts are Warne with Warne QD low. Bolt clearance is close but fine, and cheek weld is solid.

[/URL][/img]

I apologize, they are Nosler 140 Accubonds. I have to tweak seating depth a little but I think it'll be real good as it shorten them up a little.

The rifle is a Model 70 7x57 Featherweight. It's the older push feeder but man, if I was to run across another I'd buy it in a heartbeat. It shooting 140BTs with RL19 into real small groups.

That's a nice rifle there Rev.

Why not just use the iron sights?

The one thing I miss from my youth: my eyes!

And thanks. It's pretty utilitarian.

Have you shot any 150s? Ingwe swears by them.

Any range report yet?

I haven't yet but right now I've got more 140's than 150's. I might give them a shot once I get the 140ABs squared away.

Go to page 23 and about 1/3 the way down is the update. Then if you want I posted "Is it worth pursuing" in the "Ask the Gunwriters" thread.

Oh and the eye comment,I totally understand.

I have a new Featherweight and it shoots better than I do even with factory ammo. Great rifles in just about any variation.

I'd like to have one of them. What a perfect match up of cartridge and rifle.

Got it. Looks like you're working up a great quick load. Elk or mule deer?

No doubt.

It'll be for both. It is my son's rifle. Want him to be able to take an elk this Fall if we draw.

Both.

I think Ingwe has put together a pretty good pig load: 150 gr NBT at 2500. I expect an Accubond would also work pretty well.

But it probably wont get used on pigs�its for Axis�.but we shall see�..

Ingwe,uh ummm the Axis lost the war way back in 1945...

They lost cause they switched to 6.5 Carcanos and 8 x57s�if they'd have stayed with the 7x57 we would be anxiously awaiting Oktoberfest and girls in lederhosen�.




OK�I had to rethink that�..

You're full of beans,we had the .30-06! Top that kitty.

[/quote]

Sat in a different stand this evening. About 5:15 eight or nine little pigs came in, all in about the 40 pound range. I picked a nice little sow and put a standard 139 grain Prvi just low and behind the ear. The pigs scattered but her brother figured that without his sister there'd be more corn for him. I did the same thing for him that I did for his sister. Those little buggers are going to eat just fine.

Oh, and that obsolete old cartridge did just fine as well. [/quote]
yes, but have you tried both rounds to see which one killed them deader?

The .30-06 is no match for the 7x57!


Everyone knows that��.

My gosh,are you in the catnip again?!

Everyone knows that the .30-06 is what the 7x57 wants to be when it grows up.

The .30-06 is the Freudian version of the 7x57�for those who feel inadequate about themselves�


And don't be hatin' on the catnip�its readily available�..

That's cheating! Blondes,boobs and beer is CHEATING!!

But it WORKS!!!!

Now you are going a "Freudian" on me now uh,well schit at a loss of witty comebacks...

True.

It's tough when we have nothing.

That's ok, I'm betting it'll still work. I won't be using it on Axis in Florida.

Yeah,there's always tomorrow.

Actually, I think we'd be speaking Spanish.

Im gonna shoot some pigs in Florida in february�.

Nah, don't want to upset a good thing.

Dead of winter. You're going to want to wear a long sleeve shirt.

With a 7mm Mauser?

Nope, that'll probably be the .223AI

It'll work. My BIL shot two 70 pounders the other day with a CZ .223 using Barnes loads. Their siblings came to eat the corn around their dead carcasses. We shooed them away so we could pick up the hoglets to clean. Amazing. It was the same evening I shot the spotted one I posted earlier...only I used the Mauser.

Elk, thanks for posting your results. Are you trying to catch Ray Atkinson's speedy BRNOs? He posted 2900-2916 fps with the 160 grain Nosler PT.

I assume the OAL 3.330" fits in your magazine box. I know it would fit in all the 7x57s I have owned.

Are you going to try a different powder to try and reach your fps goal? Hint - Atkinson was using full cases of H-414

I don't know about the 7mm-08 but I do know that a 7x57 with a 154 grain Hornady Interlock and a full charge of H4831sc (which will be above book) kills chit dead.

2900 fps in a 7mm Mauser with a 160 gr bullet no,not only that but HELL NO! 2800 fps is good enough for me and deer & elk will never know.

Yes,the 3.330" fits in the CZ magazine,as the Featherweight has a shorter OAL. Have seating dies for both rifles.

Nope,going to stay with H-4831SC as the goal was 2750-2800fps with a 160 gr NP.

Forgot to add,You're welcome Roundoak.

I forgot all about what this thread was about when I saw this...



Me like Frauleins. My 18 month tour of duty in Deutschland(Hanau) I met quite a few...some shaved their legs and some didn't.

What?

Oh, Lord...trying to give an old man a heart attack? I've discovered a man's mind doesn't get past 25. At 68 I'm still looking at these but what breaks my heart is they're not looking back anymore.

Elk, I had a Win pre-64 action that had a Buhmiller barrel screwed on and I sent it to Wyatt to install one of his magazine boxes. OAL in that box was 3.825"

Dang,think it's long enough.

Yeah, I would imagine that'll give you space to work with any bullet out there!

Yup,just need to stretch the cartridge's neck a little.

That is maybe a little advantage I see with the 7x57 versus a 7-08 on a Model 70. I love the long neck on the Mauser and the ability to seat the bullets out to 3.150 on my rifle. I am sure on the same platform a 7-08 would be just as good though. My daughter is 10 years old and I have a pretty good push to get her into one of the 7-08 Compacts or even a full sized 7-08 Featherweights and getting a cheap laminate or something similar and cutting it down for her use till she can grow into a full sized stock. I don't feel like either cartridge would be a limiting factor in their hunting.

Either one would be great for her,I just like the 7mm Mauser.

This is my Featherweight 7mm Mauser.



Talley LW's and a Leupold 2.5x Ultraliaght. It weighs 7lbs 12ozs.

That is a beautiful rifle. I really like the 7x57 quite alot as well. I have never owned a 7-08 though, so having something new is always fun for me to load for. I want a 7x57 Featherweight for myself, but I think it would be more fun to work up a good load for my daughter to get into as well.

I never thought I would like the 7x57 so much till I started working with my son's rifle. It is very accurate and man, I just can't see a much better handling mountain rifle and when it is loaded up right, it really does alot of work with a fairly small amount of powder.

There's the stalking rifle. Mine's the same except 2.5-8x36. And I like it!

Mule Deer is going to be convinced that the 7x57 looneys are worse than the .260 guys!

The one in the foreground is a beauty.

It is probably a toss up depending on the moon phase..

The model 21 at the top is my 7x57, hopefully I will be able to get it restocked for my daughter, with a nice piece of Roger Vardy's English walnut that I have here.

Wow, those are beauty's too.. Very nice rifles fella's. Very classy.

How do they shoot?

The 7x57 shoots around an inch and a quarter with 150 grain corelokt's and 50 grains of ar2209 for 2700 fps, the Zg47 270 shoots considerably better...better than I can with such a rifle.

I'm curious about something. And I know it's hard to determine on a double trigger rifle, but what's the length of pull? My M70FWT is 13.75 inches. I have a Zastava Mauser and it's 14.5. It seems like the Europeans generally put longer stocks on their rifles than we do.

Length to the rear trigger since it's the one that actually trips the firing pin.

About 1/2" more than is comfortable, and on that one I will put a single trigger and different bottom metal or my lass will never be able to use it.

No, the rear trigger sets the front one on Brno's.

Interesting. Thanks.

Very nice. Sounds like they get it done! Way to go, they are beautiful.

289 posts and you pinheads haven't figured out the .270 out classes all calibers listed prior to this.

What a bunch of maroons!!!

There we are, fixed your typos, you're most welcome.

Never owned a 7/08 and probably never will. The 7mm Mauser is just a hair faster and has "panache."

In that rifle I'm using IMR-4350 and a 150 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip at 2750 fps.

Nice!

The 7x57 may have panache, but the .280 has "pizzaz" which everyone knows is a step above panache. Panache + a bigger engine = Pizzaz, Pizzaz in turn = Kickass! Do the math, it all adds up.

Recently picked up two of the Cabelas Winchester Model 70 Supergrades in 7x57. I'm a sucker for nice wood. Wasn't planning to pick up another of these, but after seeing the second one (last photo), I could not resist. Too nice to leave on the rack.

URL=/7x57_zpsac194168.png.html][/URL]

URL=http://7x57j_zpsecda00b1.png.html][/URL]

I fart in your general direction!

Now stop at once or I shall taunt you again!

Dat supergrade is fuggin sweeeeeet!

My other 7x57 duplicates the .280 Rem with a 160 gr NP.

Look in the Nosler #7 reloading manual,page 335 and look at the H-4831SC loading data. That is what the CZ is getting,except with a 2" shorter barrel and using a Fed 210 Match primer.

Bring out your dead....lol.

Oh my GOSH! And I mean that in a good way.

Anddddd�



I fart in YOUR general direction!!!

I see your .280 and raise you my 7x64.

You are game bending over in front of someone with a .270!

Ingwe is a teaser.

WHOA! That is a beautiful rifle! I am not sure I would have passed that one up either!

I had heard that.

Yup,that's the rumor around the Campfire.

! And to think I thought I was unrefined, you sir are nothing but a vulgar savage!

With a secret .270 fetish.

I blow my nose in your general direction!

Great,cat snot all over the place.

Ingwe,how about this "bless your heart" it sounds pleasent and it really means GFY.

Fixed your post.....

Look at that, five minutes shooting with a 7x57 and not only is he lifting the pinky he has his nose in the air!

Foul person.

May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your armpits and particulars.......

How about this��

Nope,to bold,you have to be subtle about it Ingwe.

For instance,just bless your heart for posting that poster.

Oh man...I am just plain and simply outclassed here, I am going to sit and take in the sight of masters at play.

Even though they're ballistic twins, the .280 is still better because you don't have to pay through the nose for brass, you can just de-gay some .270 Wimpchester or refine some .30-06 brass.

Can do that with 7x64 too.

Wait a minute here,I thought you were a d*** head according to TAK?

Oh and bless your heart.

That's not the point! Well my dad can beat your dad up, so there!

Obviously JStuart has class as opposed to some of you douchenozzles. Since he has class then it follows I do as well as evidenced by this picture. Younz can GFY.

My grandmother used that one and "we love you" and I am pretty sure your interpretation is correct.

Hahaha! I like it!

Hey Ingwe, look at that...I fooled another one!

I've been had. Gloves are off now Boudreaux.

Btw, I farted on your breakfast this morning sir, good day to you.

Holy frijoles!!

7x57 brass seems hard to come by...at least Winchester my preferred brass. Norma is sky high.

I feel happy; I feel happy...

Karnis had surgery just lately, he's over-medicating...

That's a gorgeous rifle, too bad it's chambered for such a boorish cartridge.

I got lucky some years ago and picked up 300 new RWS 7x57 cases in the boxes for a dollar each, and with the other brass I have I have only used about forty of them.

Looks to me like he got new glasses.

The Norma stuff runs about a buck a piece, but man, it is heads above Winchester. You get no culls, its very consistent in weight and just needs a little trueing of the necks. I ran a bunch of Winchester brass, and still would buy it again, but the Norma stuff is very nice. A buck a piece isn't too much (for me) as long as it holds up well and doesn't split.

You could get Hornady with the .275 headstamp and raise your pinky when drinking Earl Grey. Of course, you'd have to shove it into something that looks like this:




Or this:

By the way, before Ingwe and Elk ask, I got 'em off the Rigby site. I have 'not' been pilfering the offering plate.

WOW, what a pair of rifles.. Jeeze, that makes me feel guilty schlubbing along with my Model 70's..

I cringe when I bump my Featherweight on the ladder of a stand. I'd be suicidal if I did it with one of these. On the other hand, if I could afford one of these, I might not care as much...just send them back to the spa once a year.

Good point sir. I don't cry too much over the lumps and scratches my rifles acquire while hunting, it's the ones they pick up from the gun safe and me being in a hurry.

That!

[/quote]

HUBBA! HUBBA!

http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz265/mlward_ssa/Rigby2_zps49b040a7.jpg

Rev-I couldn't afford that scope, much less the rifle. What manufacturer is it? What a beauty.

Rigby, London. Although I believe the skin came from Ingwe's thong drawer.

You funny today.

Ohhhh...shades of excitement!

Hmmm...either they haven't removed that one from their site or there's two just alike. I went looking to see what they had and found what appears to be the same one. At least the wood looks the same.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Winchester-Model-70-Super-Grade-7x57-Mauser/1838842.uts

It's been a long Lent.

Holy Madre de Dios!!!!




I've soiled myself!

That's ok Ingwe,you can go change the Depends now.

Damn good thing I had them on!

I would have needed Jiz-be-Gone for my screen on that one!

TMI
TMI
TMI

Amen!

Really,are you saying that the puter is just millimeters away from that region?


Ingwe,that's actually a witty "come" back.

With only two middle fingers, how do you think I hit the 'shift' key?

With the help of your sweet,devoted wife.

Just not removed from the gun library site yet. Purchased it yesterday. It's on it's way to my local Cabelas store. The one in the first picture I've had for a couple months...since December.

Now that I took another look they are not the same. Stocks sure look similar. I may have to pounce on that one.

Sorry, I read your post too quickly. You did buy that other one. Guess I'll look for another...beautiful wood.

Elk: You doing anything with 150s? I know Ingwe is pushing them at a comfortable 2500fps and plans to decimate most of Texas's fauna pretty soon. You doing anything with them?

Mike

Rev,sorry that I'm late answering your post.

I'm using the 150 gr NBT in the Featherweight and with IMR-4350 it's getting just under 2750 fps from the 22" barrel.

Yes,going to take Featherweight bear hunting this fall in Arizona along with the .300 H&H.

Are you using the Nosler manual for all your loads?

Here's this evening's addition to the larder, courtesy of the Featherweight and a 139gr PSP.

[/URL][/img]

Sorta,using Nosler load data for the Featherweight. For the CZ I just started from where the 175 gr NP stopped and worked up from there. I shoot every load over a chronograph.

Pretty good shootin' there Rev.

Nice pig! Man, your stacking them up! Great shooting.

Was it a pass through? I don't see an exit. Wonder if there was a chance of a bullet recovery.

Nice pic of the Rev's foot also.

Thanks, but this would be stacking them up from last week.





Complete pass through and what you see is the exit side. The pig was standing a tad over 30 yards from me. I was squatting down on a right of way, looking through an opening in the myrtles, watching three other pigs about the same size as this one about 45 yards away when this one walked into view. He hadn't caught up with his siblings yet. He had his head down, broadside facing to my left when I shot him. He dropped and pumped a bit, but never moved from the spot. As I said, what you see is the exit wound.

Ha! I tried to get it out of the way, but the ol' iPhone camera got it!

Don't kill them all!!!!!



Save some for me!

Ingwe,you just need a pig or two. No need to be greedy.

Trust me: there is no way I can kill them all. Just last night, three of this little group high-tailed it out at my shot. They lived to see another day. And as I was driving back to camp to clean this one, three more were trotting down the trail towards the place where these had been. As I said, there is no way I can kill them all.

Besides, you're heading to Texas. I'm in Florida.

Ingwe, let me tell you a story about those little fellas on the back of the truck. Last Thursday I was on a stand about 50 yards from a feeder near a right-of-way, the same feeder over which I shot the little boar yesterday evening, and my brother-in-law was on a stand near a feeder about a half-mile to the south. The feeders scattered a bit of corn at 5 p.m., but there's still a lot of daylight left between then and dark, so I settled in to see what you and Elk were up to on the 'fire.

At about 6:30 a few little pigs came in, so I waited until the one I wanted (the white and black spotted one) presented himself. He was a nice little boar of about 70-75 pounds. Note to self: replace the scale at camp this summer! Anyway, when he did, I took him with the Featherweight (7x57, of course) using Prvi factory 139gr soft points. Sorry to disappoint you, Elk, but in all these years I still haven't gotten around to handloading.

Anyway, about five minutes later I heard my brother-in-law shoot once, then three or four minutes later he shot again. He was using his CZ 527 in .223. I put my pig in the truck and drove down to his stand by a back route so as to not scatter the pigs just in case he missed. When I pulled into the right-of-way, I looked over towards his feeder and the two darker pigs were laying under it. Two shots, two young pigs.

Now here's the kicker: When I pulled into the right-of-way, there were two more pigs eating the corn on the ground around their dead compatriots. My brother-in-law sent me a text that said, "I'm saving them for you if you want them." I was exactly 130 yards from the feeder and had the hood of the truck as a rest. One of the pigs that was vacuuming up the corn was a beautiful red sow that probably weighed about 80 pounds, and she was with a black pig (I couldn't tell the sex) that probably weighed about the same.

And here is the amazing thing about it: they were not only eating the corn around their dead compatriots, but the red sow was actually using her nose to move the carcass of one of the dead ones to get to the corn that was under him. Incredible.

I could have taken the shot but didn't. I figured we had three to clean and that was enough for one evening.

I will be in Florida in February with pig death on my mind and on my menu...

That sounds like a lot of fun! The pork is probably real good too huh?

.

Oh that's right. Dead of winter. You might need a long sleeve shirt.

It really is. And it is generally pretty tender too, but you have to be careful since it's also very lean. You gotta keep it moist.

Man, I'm really jealous. I just finished zeroing my 348 and it seems like pigs would be a perfect application to blood the old rifle!

I've heard the meat is real good. Love to have a bunch of it to stuff in the freezer.

Absolutely, that would be a perfect rifle! I have an old M94 with a Williams FP rear sight and Firesight front. At the ranges I generally shoot it'd be fine...but my eyes ain't what they used to be, even with the Firesight (which is really a great sight, by the way, especially in low light conditions). That old .348 would work fine.

As for the meat, it's generally pretty tasty and tender; but you hear all sorts of opinions about a mature boar. Some folks won't touch it saying it's "rank," while others have never had an issue with it at all. Personally, I think three things are generally going on: 1) psychology - if you hear it enough, you begin to believe it; 2) adrenaline - some hogs have been run before being killed and that can pump a lot of adrenaline through the meat (although, again, I'm not sure just how much that affects it, if any: I'm not a biologist); 3) handling - if meat isn't properly handled (i.e., cooled quickly, washed down before skinning, butchered with plenty of fresh water running over it, etc.) then it's likely to be ruined. But you can say that about any meat.

Personally I've not had an issue with some of the bigger boars, although I do try to stay with pigs under about 100 pounds. But there is a reason for that: I'm often by myself and they're just easier for one person to handle. Besides, the big ones are "breeders" and even though the rancher wants every single pig off his property, to me they're game and groceries, so I leave the big ones to do what big ones do. Or the cowboys eventually kill them; but they're not out there enough to make even a small dent in the population.

Sweeeeeet�..

And mosquito repellent!

Hey, Mule Deer is over on the Gunwriters forum defending the 7x57. That man has a lot of wisdom. Of course, he does have a beard....

What part of the Sunshine State are you going to be in, anyway?

I will be in St. Petersburg, but will travel a bit for pigs

Nice part of the state. I'm on the other side; have been for all but the first four years of my life. You probably won't have to travel far as those buggers are all over.

Yeah Im looking at a couple places about half way�.

PM me - I might be able to hook you up with a combo bass trip/hog hunt. An inland, "surf & turf", if you will.

FC

As we get closer and I nail down dates, I will!

Heading out tomorrow to fill some feeders. I might get a shot or two, but won't shoot them all. There will be more than enough, Ingwe, when you visit our beloved state.

Hey Ingwe: no pigs this evening, so consider some of them saved.

I guess since this is Good Friday you could take that a couple of ways...

About ten minutes after I posted the above:

[/URL][/img]

Nice! Congrats on the pig!

Thanks. This one was taken by a buddy of mine (fellow priest) last evening just before the sun went down. I was already out of my stand and heading to the truck as it was pretty close to dark and starting to sprinkle rain. I texted him and he said he was on his way down as well, then I heard him shoot. The first thing that went through my mind was, "Dang; now I'm going to have to clean this thing in the mosquitos and rain." I was right on both counts!

But he went home with a cooler full of pig and a smile on his face, and in my book, that's what counts.

By the way, it was a young boar about 120 pounds or so, with cutters about an inch long. No chips or wear, so he was a pretty young, albeit mature, boar.

Took this pic while turkey hunting,it's a Bull Elk rub.

Dad gum, he's a tall bugger.

Yeah,maybe someday I'll meet him or his son/grandson.