Originally Posted by Formidilosus
One of the big problems with this discussion is many have no frame of reference to base a theory on. Most hunters barely know how to sight a rifle in, let alone know how to actually use one to it's full capability. Granted most on here are not in that category, however distance shooting is still a relatively new thing for the mass majority of hunters. I think for this topic it will greatly help to get a frame of reference for the experience level of the posters.

Most of my observations are from 8 years as a US military duty slotted sniper, owner and chief instructor of a firearms training company, 3-Gun and precision rifle tactical competitor, and a fanatical hunter.

I shot LR a bit when I first started shooting, but wasn't all that good at it. I simply didn't have the knowledge, coaching or equipment to be very consistent. I made a couple of longish shots on deer in the 4- 500 yard range, but I wasn't really setup to do it. When I finally bought a Leupold with target turrets and actually learned how to use them hits went WAY up. Then I bought a Burris with Ballistic plex reticle and thought I had found the holy grail. What could be easier then having specific aiming points for 200, 300, 400, 500, and 600 yards? Shooting on the range seemed to prove that the reticle was fast and accurate. The first couple of deer were in the 2-350 yard range and I smoked them rather easily. The first time I noticed a problem was on a deer that was moving through the brush on a hillside over 400 yards away. The rut was in full swing, and I could see the deer moving back and forth in the scrub brush but it was to thick for a shot. Finally he stopped in a small opening. I had a clear path to the vitals, but most of his head and stomach were partially obscured by the brush. I was shooting across the side of the steep hill I was on over to the hill he was on. The position I was shooting from and the fact that I had to "guess" where to hold the reticle because the range was between the nice laid out yardage markers and the gap was quite a bit bigger then the vitals, made me take way to much time trying to get everything lined up correctly. I killed that deer but it wasn't pretty, and several other instances with friends and excited situations on deer started making me rethink how great the BDC reticle was.

Soon after I had a custom rifle made up for extreme distance shooting that launched 30cal 220gr SMK's at over 3,300 fps. Combined with a scope that tracked consistently, hits out to almost 800 yards became routine. The 400 to 600 yard range just wasn't even a challenge anymore. I pretty much abandoned using BDC reticles, because hits were much better dialing. At this point I believed that one needed a 1,000 yard bench gun that weighed 25lbs and was chambered for cartridges that consumed 100gr of powder to reliably kill deer past 4 or 500 yards.

When I attended Sniper school I learned that rifles didn't have to weigh over 20 pounds with 34in long barrels to get good hits out to 700 yards or so. The instructors pushed using the reticle for your holds, stating that it was faster and "easier". And while I shot quite a bit using the reticle it was plain to see that dialing was significantly more accurate and consistent, especially in the wind. My spotter struggled on shooting tests until he finally relented and started dialing at which point he went from barely passing to smoking the courses. As far as speed went I was by far the fastest shooter to HIT targets in the class. When I finished the school I had shot over 3,000 rounds of 308win, 300WM, and 50BMG out to 1,900 yards. I could take my 12lb M24 in 7.62 and and make on demand head shots on E-types at 600m in calm conditions. It was by far the most consistent gun system I had ever used.

When I graduated it kicked my experimenting into overdrive. Over the next few years I learned that consistency day in and day out was the most important criteria in a rifle, no matter the range. Gradually I moved away from the big bench gun and back to 308's, 243's and 300WM's that were "normal" hunting rifles that could be carried and used from point blank out to 700 or so yards. Every once and a while I would shoot with or hunt with someone who was enamored with reticles, yet every time they shot better with my rifles and dialing.

Fast forward to the present and I have been teaching LR shooting classes for the last three years seeing dozens of hunters and shooters, both military and civilian, come through and shoot just about every gun and scope combination made. Last summer I shot or witnessed over 50,000 rounds go downrange, a good portion of it from hunting rifles. Having seen so many examples of the same shooter in the same conditions on the same day shoot much better dialing rather then holding, there is zero doubt in my mind that, excepting military applications, dialing is the way to go.




Nice post. I can appreciate that insight and experience. I too like spinning turrets on targets past 600 yards. Anything less and the reticle works just fine....


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

BSA MAGA