Originally Posted by Eremicus
My two cents are that this applies in taking long shots which aren't the norm for shots at big game. Or at least it hasn't been for me.
There are those who argue that there are no compromises in using dedicated long range rifles and scopes for all oportunities in the field. I disagree. Scopes like your favorite Nightforce, often come with short eye relief, small eye boxes and fine reticles. All of which hinder making shots under other unfavorable conditions. Running shots at bad angles and low light shots come to mind here.
You give an example of using a binocular to range a deer at 477 yds. With a proper reticle, I can often range and shoot w/o bothering to use a range finder or dialing. No, not at 477 yds. as a rule. But if he's 300-400 yds. I can and have.
Accurate ranging and dialing is nice. If you have the additional time and if ther animal is cooperating.
Let's say your deer is moving as it feeds. Going to try ranging and dialing ? Want to know how many guys I've seen loose a shot because they were fiddling with the scope ?
They both have their uses and there places. It's not an either or situation. I do agree that one can use a reticle often times more effectively to hold into the wind than using a reticle to holdover. And it certainly works better to dial than to try and do both holdover and hold into the wind using a reticle alone.
As to reliable scopes, that's another area of disagreement. Basically, no scope can be dialed forever w/o breaking down. Ask the benchrest guys about that. Reliability also depends on the scope's ability to stay zeroed when impacted or when shot alot. Again, all of them fail if pushed enough. Some are just better than others. E




In my experience people that say they haven't seen a need to shoot long(er), or it's not the norm, haven't because they don't have the skill or knowledge to.

A 2.5-10x32 or 3-9x42 is not a dedicated LR scope. Neither is a 7lb 243 with a fixed 6x Leupold. I killed several deer at the very last and very beginning of legal light this year with all three.


Do you consider any of these to be dedicated LR rifles and scopes..?


M7 243win Leupold 3-9x40 w/M1's
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M70 300WM Leupold MK4 6x M3. Now wears a NF....
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And this certianly can't be considered a dedicated LR setup. NEF 243win, Leupold 6x36 w/M1 ele. 427 yards by a girl...

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How do you determine if you want to shoot an animal? Do you "glass" with your scope? Just how long do you suppose that it takes for a laser to bounce back a range when you're already looking at the target?

As far as the feeding deer.... Of course. If it's past 250 yards or so, do you just start flinging lead? I guarantee you that hitting something with a laser is faster then guessing range with a reticle. I don't care how good you think you are ranging with a reticle. This whole bs notion that it somehow takes a long time to spin a turret is ridiculous. The problem here, and we see it ALL THE TIME, is that you simply don't know what you don't know. You have no frame of reference as to what is possible. What most think is "fast" is really painfully slow.



Your comment about scopes... Everything made will eventually break. Will your rifle continue to go boom forever? No. But it will probably outlast you. I have used Leupold Ultra M3A's that are now 20 years old. They work perfectly. I have optics with over 50,000 rounds on them with almost every single shot being dialed. How many 30/06's or 308's or any rifles do you have, that have 50,000 rounds through them? Tell you what send me a PM and next time we have a class close to you I'll let you come for free and you can see those scopes being beat on and still working perfectly.