Originally Posted by JGRaider
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith


On average, long-range shooters put more time, primers, and preparation into LR shots, and miss or wound less than average-Joe short-range shooters who shoot a couple boxes of ammo a year and take whatever shot they are offered, including running shots. These same average-Joe shooters tend not to wound at long range, they miss entirely. To use a line from your book- prove me wrong. But try using reason and evidence this time.


Jordan, you are an experienced guy, that is inarguable to me. I will have to respectfully disagree with you on this. It seems that with most LR guys I read here on the fire, they fail to admit that they are totally at the mercy of the wind no matter how much ammo they burn. My buddies up in the TX Panhandle personally see the best snipers in the world shoot steel, targets, and prarie dogs, at extended ranges past 1000m. The ever present, inconsistent wind wreaks havoc with the very best shooters in the world, as they often time, very often, miss the mark the first shot or two, due to not being able to figure the dope, obviously. If it happens to these guys, it happens to any LR shooter anywhere. That's my reason for not totally drinking the koolaid. Now, when there's little to no wind, or a consistent wind (seldom), different story. You don't want these guys shooting at you no matter what.

There is no way to prove if LR shooters wound more or less than regular shooters, no way. Also, exactly none of these snipers are using conventional (Swaro, Leica, Zeiss, Leupy, Nikon, Bushy, etc) rangefinders. They also shoot as a team. There's not one guy "swagging it" like lots of LR hunting wannabes do. The wind dictates the result, every single time.


JG,

I can completely see where you're coming from, but I have a couple of points to make...

- The wind is THE enemy to making LR hits. But fortunately the more primers you pop in the wind, the more clear your understanding of what effect a given wind condition has on a given bullet, and your future estimates of net wind drift become more precise and more accurate. Probably the most valuable result of this "education", is that it teaches a LR guy when he shouldn't shoot

- Distances beyond 1000m are typically considered ER (extreme-range) hunting. LR hunting if often considered between 500 or 600 and 1000 yards. Making first-round hits at extreme range requires a whole different level of "education", and for this reason a sighter shot 100 feet to the side of the animal is common place in this kind of hunting

- My observations about SR guys missing and wounding more often than LR guys are based off my own experience, witnessing my buds and other LR guys that I know, and many, many average-Joe hunters that I've hunted with. It makes sense that LR guys miss and wound less, since by definition if they are really into LR, they have invested a lot of effort, money, and time into honing the art, and are more likely to be picky about taking shots within their abilities. The average hunter may only take a couple of days off a year for shooting/hunting, and they typically want to make those days count by shooting whatever legal animal they see, regardless of shot presentation, the animal running or standing still, etc. There are a LOT of guys that will take a shot at running game without a second thought, which has a WAY higher likelihood of missing/wounding than a LR guy taking his time to gauge the wind drift in a 10 mph wind and carefully taking a shot, usually without the time pressure of a running shot at a fleeting critter. It all comes down to a guy knowing his limitations. Usually LR guys have spent enough time and primers to be well-familiar with theirs, while the average-Joe often doesn't know what his limitations are, and doesn't care to find out until he's actually shooting at game. Keep in mind that the posters here on 24H are not the guys that make up the bulk of what I'm calling the average-Joe hunter