Originally Posted by Paddler
Originally Posted by Valsdad
Originally Posted by Paddler
Originally Posted by Valsdad
Originally Posted by Paddler
So, you ride around in a side by side ATV and ground sluice grouse? And guys here think that's cool? What about the rules of fair chase??? Ever heard of sportsmanship? The only thing you should shoot grouse on the ground or in a tree with is a freaking camera.

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Paddler, sometimes it's "to each their own". I kinda like the type of hunting you describe and wish I had a nice double and a good bird dog myself.

However, I personally don't believe what Shrapnel did is considered "ground sluicing". To me ground sluicing is shooting more than one bird/animal, standing in the road, with a shotgun maximizing the amount of game taken with one shot.

I personally would like to have the option for grouse in my state with my 25-20 revolver, as I would carry that while deer/elk hunting but it's not allowed due to caliber restrictions during centerfire seasons. I think it takes a high degree of skill to head shoot a grouse with a 4" bbl pistol. Not really "unsporting" in my book, But that's me.

I bow hunt with a "stick and string" longbow that weighs all of a pound with silencers on the string. I use wooden arrows with fixed broadheads. I've never taken anything with it because the shots I've been presented "I" couldn't take ethically. Do I wish to stop others from using compounds, sights, releases, range finders, and mechanical points? Do I consider that equipment "unsporting"? Not really. I do wish, from my standpoint, that more jurisdictions would go to split season for modern and primitive archery. The same goes for muzzleloaders.

Many times I wear handmade moccasins (my hands made them) or sometimes hunt barefoot depending on conditions. I wear wool and cotton (again condition related), very few synthetics in my wardrobe. Do I think it not very sportsmanlike for folks to wear the latest "Scent lok", Windstopper, Gore tex, super dooper fleece along with their scentproof knee high latest version of rubber boots? Short answer... NO.

I do hunt at times with "modern" firearms of various calibers. I'm not into "long range" hunting. Do I believe it's not "fair chase" for guys to shoot game at 500, 600 or more yards? Maybe a bit risky given the things that could happen, but not unsporting really.

A question for you, my fellow campfire attendee:

I have a pump shotgun. Is that OK to hunt grouse with? It legally holds 3 shells, should I only load two so as not to be less "sportsmanlike" than folks with double guns? Perhaps when I go pheasant, quail, chukar hunting this season I should go to the local pawn shop and pick up a single shot first? And find some 2 1/2 inch shells as those 2 3/4 or god forbid 3" ones could be seen by some as not very sporty.

I don't hunt "varmits" like prairie dogs, gophers, gray diggers, rock chucks, groundhogs and stuff but a lot of folks here do. I sometimes think it would be more "sporting" of them to stand in the middle a PD town with a sharp stick or ball bat and have them get the little f'rs like "Whack a Mole" (it would be hilarious to watch too, have you seen pics of some of these old guys? laugh ) I don't mind if they do it the way they like to do it, it's just not something I'm going to put energy into.

I'm about done putting energy into this reply so let me close with this idea.

Perhaps to be more sporting, in the spirit of fair chase, you might consider taking to the grouse woods the next time, after canoeing in or perhaps riding on your trusty steed, dressed in a capote with a possibles bag around your shoulder (containing real black powder), while carrying a smoothbore flintlock trade gun. No dog, you would have had to eat him a week or two back as you were nearing starvation. That's some folks' idea of "sportsmanship"

Or better yet, like some "primtive" peoples hunt, naked except for a "nutsack" tied to a string around your waste while using a blowgun to harvest a spruce chicken (no I DO NOT want to see pics of any of you other old dude take me up on this!! sick ) grin

I honestly hope you enjoy your fall seasons. When I manage to get some time off work later this fall, I intend to enjoy mine, in the sporting manner I see fit.

Geno

PS, Travis would have said all this with just a few letters. wink

PPS, now I've got less time tonight to do serious stuff on the 'fire. Like research .223 AI, Cermalube, and new cartridges based off another. eek


Geno, I hunt with a recurve, a 33 year-old Howatt Hunter before they were bought by Martin. I make my own cedar arrows, too, with 2 bladed Zwickey broadheads. The quiver below was made from green deerhide, per Saxton Pope's description in his classic, "Hunting With The Bow and Arrow". If you haven't read it, as a traditional archer I'm sure you would find it fascinating:

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I don't kill much, I only hunt archery elk a couple days per year. Don't even hunt deer anymore, even though as a lifetime licensee I get a tag every year. I just don't want to eat one. I won't ever use a compound, I'll just hang it up when I can no longer handle a 70# recurve.

It's more important to me these days not what I kill, but how I take game. Sportsmanship matters, which for me means taking game birds only on the wing. If you're going to shoot birds on the ground, just go buy a chicken. Aldo Leopold said, "The value of any trophy from the field depends not on its size, but on the magnitude of the effort expended in its pursuit." Riding an ATV road hunting grouse is a failure, those who condone it are a sorry lot. Nothing beats a dog getting birdy, freezing on point, the flush, and more often than not, the missed shot. I understand it's all legal, ATVs, shooting sitting birds with a variety of weapons, but what a miserable way to hunt. Leopold again:

“Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching- even when doing the wrong thing is legal.”
― Aldo Leopold


Interesting bow and quiver. I will attempt to remember that book and look for it when next shopping for reading material for next work season. Interesting that I also use a Howatt, "The Stick" according to the markings on the bow, my first a 45Lb and the newer one (By Martin) is a 55lb.

Not mine, but the pics on this forum show what I use:

http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=006589;p=1



Now, for a question regarding your beliefs on an "ethical" view of sportmanship and such things. Again, we may disagree.

Your statement: "Sportsmanship matters, which for me means taking game birds only on the wing"

You mention, somewhere I believe, hunting elk with your bow.

My "ethical" question:

Do you believe it is "unsporting" to take a target of opportunity, lets say a grouse, with your bow while out hunting elk?

If not "unsporting", would you let said grouse get off the ground first?

Awaiting your response,

Geno

PS, it is my opinion that the invective you use to denigrate the legal behavior of some of our members adds nothing to the conversation, further inflames them against you, leading to personal attacks on YOUR character, and will not in the least help to convince them that some things "might" be better if accomplished in a different manner.


Good question. I carry a blunt with me while hunting elk in case I run into a grouse, want to practice estimating range, etc. I've killed one with it. I killed one with a rock once, too. Those were incidental kills while pursuing other game, scouting, etc. In my view that's a very different scenario than riding around in an ATV with a revolver loaded with bird shot specifically intending to pot shoot grouse. It's also more difficult to kill a grouse with a bow than the way that fellow killed his.

Regarding your last point, I came here after the UCC shooting to float a plan to help reduce gun violence. The very first response was to call me a traitor, the second was GFY, etc. Your suggestion assumes the guys here are reasonable, thoughtful individuals. Their behavior doesn't support that assumption.


I'm thinking a golf site might be more accommodating for your style of reasoning.

Writing here is Prohibited by the authorities.