To add 2 cents worth, I hate bullets that blow to pieces on any big game animal. As a guide for well over 40 years, I can tell you that every "horror story" I have to tell is involving bad marksmanship and/or bad bullets for the game shot. In many cases it was a case of both at the same time.

But the most common American big game is deer. From White Tails of N.Carolina to Mule Deer of northern Nevada there are some big differences in the size of deer, but they are still deer. I remember seeing an article on the American Rifleman back in the late 60s or early 70s saying that of all
big game killed in the USA that 97% were deer. I have no reason to doubt that's still true.

You don't need "elk bullets" to kill deer.

But the other side of that coin is that elk bullet kill deer too. They just cost more.

In fact, I can assure all readers that you don't NEED super bullets to kill elk either. The cool think about "super bullets' is that they make lighter rifles and calibers kill bigger game batter today than the combinations that were available 40 years ago. In my teens I may not have thought much or using a 257 Roberts or 25-06 on elk, but today I have no problem with them if the bullets are good enough. Such bullets were not common in the 1960s or70s and in many cases were not available at all.

There are few brands and some specific bullets within some brands that are not so good, and some that are so bad I would not take a truck load of them for free if I had to use them on game. But as a rule, what worked in the 1930s works now too.

My understanding is that Remington has gone to thinner jackets on many of their "Core-Lokt" bullets. I hope that's not correct.
(Mule Deer....do you have info on this for us?)

The old Remington CLs from the 60s and 70s were outstanding, in the examples I have used. However I have used their 100 grain 257 10 years ago and found it to be nothing more than a varmint bullets with extremely poor penetration on Antelope does.

Remington really dropped the ball when they stopped selling all their bullets on the hand-loaders market in my opinion. Here is a picture of a 150 grain 270 CL bullet purchased about 1972 next to a new 8MM 200 grain Speer bullet. As you can see the old CL has about 1/2 of it's diameter from jacket and 1/2 from core. In my opinion, all big game bullets should have thick jackets on their shanks with the ogive being drawn thinner and thinner towards the nose.
[Linked Image]PA130001 by Steve Zihn, on Flickr

I can say the same for Winchester. I have had excellent results with WW Power Points, but my complaint is that they don't sell all they make except in loaded ammo. In fact, they sell very few.

Most "big game" bullets made by most companies today are made for deer, which comprises about 97% of the "big game" shot every year. There are some that absolutely suck, but many or most are just fine for deer. A huge Nevada Mule Deer is still only the size of yearling elk and a record size deer is the size of a 2 year old cow elk. I believe many hunters over think this issue.

In my experience I have found that a 30 caliber 150 grain bullet at full expansion will often not exit an elk. Too much frontal area and not enough weight to get through 100% of the time. BUT I can also say that 2 seasons ago I, my wife and 2 friends used WW Power point 150 grain bullets on elk and we recovered 3 bullets, 2 of which broke big bones. The worst one still weighs 123 grains, next is a 129 grain and the best weighs 133 grains. Friends, that's as good as a Nosler Partition.
The only thing that would have been better is if I had the 180 grain bullets instead (long story, but the bottom line is we ended up needing the "back up rifle" which was a Mossberg MVP in 308, and the ammo in it was loaded with WW Power Point 150 grains bullets, so that what we all used.) Some bullets exited, so didn't, but I am sure all worked very well.

Last year I killed a bull with 8MM Hornady 170 Gr SSTs. They were OK, but neither one exited the bull and neither one penetrated as well as I'd like. Here is a pic of both bullets cut from the elk. I would have been delighted with them on deer, but they are not what I'd call a perfect elk bullet.
[Linked Image]PA110001 by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
Next time I take the 8MM out for elk it's going to have 200 grain Nosler Partitions in it. But the one that came un-glued still went 24" deep. That's going to do all we'd need on deer, and in my rifle they are freakishly accurate. I would not hesitate to use them again on deer and antelope.

Anyway, what I think is the most valuable tool for the hunter today is what is in front of you. The internet. LOTS of BS on it, but also lots of hunters with lots of different experience, and most of them are willing to tell you details if you simply ask.

I have spent 53 years of my life learning what works well, what works "just ok" and what doesn't work well. I have hunted in many places and killed many different kinds of game at many ranges with many guns and many bullets, and all that info is free to any who just ask for it, costing you nothing but the few minutes to ask.

The age of the internet allows a 16 year old hunter to gain a lot of knowledge in 2-3 days that many of us took 40-50 years to learn. Use it. Ask!

I am sure I am not the only one here that agrees on this point. Mule Deer is a wonderful source of info too, as are several members here and on other sites.

Remember...... A Normal person will learn from their mistakes, but a wise person learns from the mistakes of others.
You don't need to make those mistakes yourself. You have an advantage today that was never available in history.

Fools will not learn at all.
We are happy to tell you from our own mistakes


Last edited by szihn; 07/02/17.