Ok Sticky, This is going to be my last post tonight. I'll school you a little bit on that Kimber HS that you had a pic of. I don't know you you pulled the pic off the internet or not but here goes. First Wigger told me that Kimber brought him in on the stock design. Second the first few they made the barrels were Shilen barrels, and those are the ones that shoot. Soon after some bean counter figured that they could save money by making their own barrels, and the quality just wasn't there. A fellow by the name of Ed Slagel bought on of them and he said he couldn't get his to hit a chicken off the bench with Eley black box ammo. Ed called Kimber and they blew him off like he was just a casual shooter. Then he talked to someone at Kimber and he told them who he was (the S in H&S stocks), he recommended that they get up with Bill Atkinson ( from the old A&M gun works) and get their problems with their barrels straightened out. I guess after that the bean counters won out and they stopped production on the rifle. I've had two myself. One shot and one didn't.