Originally Posted by Pinnah
Originally Posted by Teal
The vitals of a deer being the size of a basketball - would have to be really bad rifle not to hit them at average deer hunting ranges.

The problem is for me, that traditional 3 shot groups aren't sufficient in determining if a rifle is good, bad, or really bad and what the chance of making a clean shot is at different distances.

I've gotten a few 3 shot groups from my lever gun under an inch. Best was 3/4". Sounds good right?

But, when aggregating 20 on the same target:
  • The mean radius is 1.46, which means 50% of shots can be predicted to fall inside of a 3" circle.
  • The extreme spread (i.e. group size) is 5.2".
  • The R95 is 3.1, which means 95% of shots can be predicted to fall inside of a 6.2" circle.


When you add the error for rise and drop of the trajectories for different zero points (e.g., 100 yds, 110 yds, 120 yds) and assume a point blank center hold, then off the bench, the gun could be expected to hit a basketball or pie plate with 95% out to about 125 yds. And at 200 yds, the R95 tells us that 95% of the shots should be in a 12.5" circle. That is, long shots don't give me a high hit percentage even if I had a perfect zero dialed in and was shooting from the bench.

Now... I don't want to drag people into a long discussion about how to best determine the accuracy of a gun (although, I'm fine with that). What I really would like to know is what other hunters think is "good enough" on hit likelihoods.I'm pretty conservative and view my lever gun as a 100 to 125 yd gun, which is fine for my uses in the woods. But I can't see using it to hunt meadows and power lines.

What likelihood do you expect from your deer guns?

Again - I don't shoot 3 shot groups at deer. I shoot 1 shot groups. I want to know, on average, the largest deviation I can expect POI from POA from a CBS. I find this tends to be much lower than 3-5 shot groups.

Determining the "accuracy" of a rifle - yeah, group sizing you're talking about makes sense to show how accurate the rifle is overall. But in your lever gun -

How likely was that 5.2 shot as the FIRST shot in the string? To me that's the important piece.


Me