Originally Posted by Pinnah
Originally Posted by Teal
Again - I don't shoot 3 shot groups at deer. I shoot 1 shot groups. I want to know, on average, the largest deviation I can expect POI from POA from a CBS. I find this tends to be much lower than 3-5 shot groups.

Determining the "accuracy" of a rifle - yeah, group sizing you're talking about makes sense to show how accurate the rifle is overall. But in your lever gun -

How likely was that 5.2 shot as the FIRST shot in the string? To me that's the important piece.

Two related, but different issues.

First, how should judge the accuracy of our rigs? We can agree to disagree on if the test target should be created off of a series of single cold bore shots, or 3-shot strings off of a cold bore. I want to know what the gun is capable of if follow up shots are needed and you may not. I'm not looking to shut off discussion of the best test protocol but I'm more interested in the second question.

Second question, what is the minimum hit likelihood do you expect from your hunting gun/ammo? 95%? 50%?

Concern for me is the 1 shot deviation from a CBS POA. That's my primary concern because that's the primary execution of my deer rifle. 1st shot. Precision is the 3-5 shot group which has f-all to do with an expected hit on a deer for shot 1 because you can be rather precise but not accurate and being so is unhelpful.

If shot one consistently hits more than .1 mil away from POA and POI is consistent but not anticipated, I'm not actually sighted in, am I?

EVERY group group I shoot, I expect and strive for the groups POI to match POA or within about .3 to .5mil at 100yds - give or take. And that's fun and we all do it, be it 3 or 5 or 10 shots but when talking about ethic/deer - I'm MOST concerned about shot one because get that wrong, rest is a rodeo.

After round 1 on game - hits are on me, not the rifle as running game and my ability to make the corrections plays a MUCH larger role in making that shot than load/barrel consistency. So precision isn't a great indicator of likelihood of me making the next shot.

My ability to swing and fire with lead is a larger influence over the results than static testing on a bench of potential precision to the point where I don't think the average shooter can confidently state "I missed on shots 2 - 5 on that deer because the rifle was imprecise and not because I was inaccurate with my shot".


Ethical hit percentage really is more about shooting ability. If your 1st CBS shot goes POA/POI - how often do you, as a shooter make POA shots in the right spot given external influences such as wind or distance? To me that's where the ethical question comes in - if you have a rifle that shoots POA/POI together and you miss 5/10 shots - that's you, not the rifle or load.


Me