Funny you post about the black box with red and green. Have been working off a couple sleeves of these since the early 90's and was wondering if they were the bad old ones. They are 165gr and have worked like magic on whitetails in a 20" 308. No joke but they have become my benchmark for quick kills without undue meat destruction, and they usually exit. YMMV
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
