Originally Posted by Coyote_Hunter
Originally Posted by MOGC
Originally Posted by Coyote_Hunter


'Condition Two' is more descriptive than 'loaded gun' as it indicates the hammer position as well as chamber status. A revolver with a loaded cylinder and the hammer cocked is very different than one with the hammer down. But perhaps you haven't noticed.


I would notice a cocked hammer on a revolver. And since a basic gun safety rule is to always consider a gun loaded until you know different I would consider a handgun, cocked or uncocked, loaded until I knew differently. If someone made up a name to describe its status, I'd still consider the gun loaded until I knew different. I'd also question if they knew what the hell they were talking about since that term is applied to semi automatic pistols and not revolvers and I'd be very cautious around them if they were handling a firearm. In fact, I might discourage that until they had some formal training and experience.


While I'm fully aware that Col. Cooper's modal conditions are typically applied to semi-auto handguns, their basic definitions can be applied equally well to rifles and revolvers as there is nothing in those definitions to prevent doing so. The critical components of those definitions are chamber full or empty, hammer cocked or not, magazine in place or not, magazine loaded or not. A revolver's cylinder can be loaded or not, striker fired and bolt-action weapons can be cocked or not and it really doesn't matter if the magazine is tubular, stacked, rotary or detachable or whether the firearm is a single-shot with no magazine at all.

Does attaching a buttstock to a semi-auto pistol change the modes of readiness that are possible? No. Does a longer barrel affect the modes? No. Does changing from an autoloader to a lever or bolt-action really change the possible modes of readiness that are possible? No. Is there a significant difference in the various states of readiness that are possible with a pistol-gripped AR with a rifle length barrel and a semi-auto, striker-fired pistol with a safety and a 3" barrel? No. Or the High Standard Model C .22 Short pistol and Remington Model 24 .22 Short semi-auto rifle I've been shooting for the last 60 years? No.

How would you define the possible states for a single-shot, breech-loaded pistol built on a 1911 frame? Or a bolt action pistol built on a 1911 frame? Or an auto-loader carbine built on a 1911 frame? All of these exist.

I didn't make up a name, I just recognize that Cooper's definitions apply more or less equally well to a wider variety of firearms than just the 1911 pistols he favored.




If I understand correctly, Condition One = fully charged, cocked, safety on. Condition Two = fully charged, not cocked,safety on. No safety on a revolver, so I would say the terms don't apply to all firearms. What am I missing? Not being argumentative, genuinely curious.


The biggest problem our country has is not systemic racism, it's systemic stupidity.