Originally Posted by nighthawk
Oh I dunno, suppose it's that love and mercy thing. He made us in His image and likeness, we are his children. I don't find us as despicable as that, more that we come into being knowing nothing and with much to learn. He made us knowing our nature, He does only good stuff, so we can't be all that bad.


If I brought you to a pool and dropped one eye dropper of the most poisonous chemical we’ve come up with in and told you to drink a cup would you do it? God is absolutely perfectly righteous & holy; not so much as a drop of unrighteousness is in Him.

You’re using yourself and your judgment as the measure but that isn’t what Scripture (or the Church for that matter) uses. Here is what He says about us:

Gen 6:5 The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. (ESV)

and that sin came through Adam, our first father:

Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men[e] because all sinned (ESV)

Paul makes this point as it relates to the Mosaic law as well:

Gal 3:10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” (ESV)

And here is an implied question from Paul that I genuinely ask you:

Gal 2:21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

If, as you suggest, “we can’t be all that bad,” why did Christ have to die?

Just to be clear; I assume you're not a Universalist so you draw the line somewhere. When you talk of us being not so bad or (as in the case of some) damnable you’re talking about law; that is, performance to a standard. You may be talking God’s Law or man’s, but in either instance Paul’s implied question applies; if salvific righteousness were available through (some) Law, why did Christ have to die?