Well, I am! But I am an equal opportunity poster.

Have at it gents,

Hell ain't half full yet.

I'm not a Christian cause dem bastids is craz, uh, never mind, rong thread.

Give it some time good brother, "If you build it, they will come".

Likely not as much fun, less hate to spew.

Just trying to help this thread out.

An easy answer, the bible is a collection of books written by man, not God, and compiled by man, not God, in order to meet the needs of the people in power, Constantine, et al, as a way of controlling the masses, providing a value system and identity, ie, being a Christian.

Of course, the Jews disagreed. Jesus was not their promised Messiah, the Muslims have their own prophet... to mention a few problems with faith.

Nobody is stopping you. Just try not to start your wailing and gnashing of teeth...it's bad for the enamel.

This is a wet blanket thread. It's like Smokey the bear throwing a pail of ice water on a small spark.

Remember, only you can douse the flames of hell by poking fun at people who aren't going there. NOT!

Dinosaurs.

I believe there were dinosaurs on the earth a few thousand years ago. I also believe there were 10 foot tall Philistines that didn't play for the Toronto Raptors. Ya gotta try harder. Before the Genesis flood men lived to just about 1,000 years old, and lizards keep growing until they die. Find me a whole dinosaur skeleton, and I'll show you a big dead lizard.

Simply believing that something is true doesn't make it true. People believe a lot of things. Each believer convinced that they are right and the others are wrong.

Christians cannot tell you who wrote the disparate tale Gospels,
but they 'know' they are true.

The birth, life and times of a Jesus character are so important to them ,
but they dont know which actual year he was born, or his birthday.
A 'king' was born, but nobody bothered to record the date of such
a monumentous occasion?

All those yrs from a young teen to 30 yr old
are not covered...totally irrelevant it seems.

His flesh/blood body dissappeared in the sky (wacky enough),
but then nobody seems to know where it ended up.

Dinosaurs had more in common with birds than lizards, birds being the survivors....

I am, always will be!

Same argument back at you. A lot of unbelievers believe something is not true, but that doesn't make them right either.

Come on! Convince me you bunch God haters.

I was born and raised as one but bristoe turned me into a jew.


shalom


mike r

According to what some unscientific scientist postulated from a few bones he guessed at. You made my point for me.

First we better start off with an agreed upon definition of a Christian, then we can hash out who is and who isn't.

Hahaha. For sure.

Well, I'm mad at God for the flood. Those fallen angles took women for wives and their Male sons were giants called nephilim and they screwed the women and kilt the men and if HE hadnt done that flood BS we could have 10 foot tall crackers kicking ass in basketball.,

The key is evidence and justification. A lack of evidence justifies a lack of conviction. And it's not a matter of 'hating god' - nobody hates Zeus, Odin, Yahweh or other gods that people once believed in, and some still do.

The question is not who is a christian, but Why Aren't You one.

Decide for yourself if you are or not, and then tell us why.

Wow, that's rough.

the church relaxed the requirements to be christian,
to increase the flock...its a numbers game.

He with the biggest flock wins...but the sheep still argue amongst themselves
like they have 2000 yrs and counting...

Churchianity is not Christianity

Apparently having little understanding of paleontology or genetics, you had no point to begin with.

Please brush up on the subject....but not using creationist material.

I preached one Sunday in a church where the only ones present were my wife, myself, and God Almighty. Had the darnedest time trying to think I was right and everybody else was wrong. I knew God wasn't wrong, and with my wife there, I knew I couldn't be right. It ain't all about numbers, at least it never was for me. God counts better'n me, anyway.

The easiest way to win an argument then from your standpoint is to shut down any differing views. Okay by me. I'll just write off whatever you say. Turn about is fair play.

Lizards are not dinosaurs, it's basic stuff. The comment that lizards keep growing into dinosaurs, which lived thousands of years ago is absurd regardless of all arguments.

I'm stealing this.

Unabashedly.

I didn't say lizards grew into dinosaurs. I said lizards grow into big lizards. Paleontologists invented dinosaurs out out of big lizards.

You like evidence, show me the evidence for your lack of belief system. You ever seen a dinosaur? Me neither.

You might as well steal it. I did!

Oh no I'm afraid it's not that simple! I've seen lots of people call themselves Christian's and yet according to biblical standards that simply can't be true. Also, I've seen plenty of arguments,here and elsewhere, between people claiming to be Christian while others who claim likewise tell them their beliefs are wrong, so maybe they aren't? It would be most helpful if we could just really nail it down first, then we can set about eliminating those who don't make the cut!

Catholics aint Christians no how!

The question was why, not how or who.

When is an answer not an answer?

talk is cheap.




foks who supposedly all have the 'Holy Spirit' arguing whos more christian or who isnt?

chances are they are all fakes.

I am a Christian for sure and try to be a better one everyday, but aside from all of that... look at it this way.

If you don't believe, die and find out that there is a God, what consequences will you suffer????

If you believe, die and there is no God....then all you suffered was a life trying to be a better person.... what's so bad about that?

I completely see where you’re coming from here.

One doesn’t have to study Church history for long before this lack of clarity becomes clear.

I have an understanding that is extremely under represented in American Christianity and am quite dogmatic about it, but I have studied other perspectives out of a desire to understand them from within (not just to prove them wrong from without) and cqn say that even as dogmatic as I am about my own perspective there is a lot of truth in many of them and they likely all could tell me and my tradition something that we could legitimately work on.

That having been said, I don’t believe that they “aren’t Christians” tho I would say there are some faith traditions tha prove my Calvinistic (that is, that God reaches His people in spite of our best efforts) inclinations by the presence of Christians in spite of not because of the tradition itself.

Sorry for being long winded but I think that’s a great question that only gets more complicated as time passes so likely not one you’ll get a significant consensus on.

From whence comes your presupposition of hate?

I think your post speaks more to the condition of some "Christians" on this forum then the non-Christians.

Then what exactly do you believe, and why do you believe it?

Nobody here can truthfully answer that.

For christian belief is pure speculation based
on adopted primitive mythology.

The atheists are drawn to a Godly discussion, like a moth to a flame, just to spout their stupidity. They have no desire to contribute anything. They just want to be disruptive. The above function is devine for ignoring the ignorant. I shake the dust from my sandals at both of these individuals.

God Bless you Brother Keith.

Jim

I'm thinking a Christian is someone who believes in God as the Creator of the universe who sent HIS son Jesus Christ, from Mary, to die for us and who arose from the grave on the third day and left to be in Heaven preparing a place for those who believe and confess such with their mouth and ask forgiveness for and repent of their sins.

No.

He's just pointing out that you lack even the most rudimentary understanding of paleontology and genetics. I'll add geology to that list considering your apparent literal belief in Noah's flood story. We'd like to have a worthwhile conversation with you which includes these subjects, providing you are willing to bring your understanding up to a level sufficient to participate.

Rong. Many probably answer it truthfully, though they cant prove it.

What about Mormons?

Good to know you are in your safe space
with Wabi sharing man hugs.

There are numerous physiological reasons why dinosaurs are not big lizards...which was the point of my objections. Look it up for yourself.

What I said about absence of evidence justifying a lack of conviction was clear enough. It is not justified to be convinced of something when there is no evidence to support a justified belief or conviction.

Which doesn't mean you can't speculate or throw ideas around.

It's so easy a child can do it, without ever having heard the word "genetics".

I'm Catholic and Yes Catholics are Christians. In fact Catholicism is The original Christian Church handed to us by Jesus through the apostles. Not meaning to start an argument but that is a fact. I know haters are going to come along and dump on the Catholic church, and as with everything man touches she has her problems, but it is still the original Christian Church.

I guess I didn't address the OP's question, sorry.

These are excuses. There are different points of view, some valid, some not, but discussing these things should not be seen as disruptive.

Did you fail to understand what I said? It appears that way.

he got a big ol jar o’ gypsy tears beside that recliner, he likes to shake it like a snow globe

Could be plenty wrong with it let me give you a real life example.

A family member on my wife's side had treatable cancer. She was a beautiful young mother of four school aged children. The members of her religious community told her that if she received modern medical treatment, then God would not heal her due to her lack of faith. Her husband finally convinced her to seek treatment, but not until the cancer had masticated and it was way too late.

She died, leaving her 4 young children without a mother and her husband to care for them alone.

Her beliefs caused real damage to real people and cost her the only life which we know for sure she had to live.

Believing untrue things can, and often does, cause real harm to people in this world.

Yes.

The early Church history was way messier than most realize.

I am as well, but I was not always that way. I computed that the story of Jesus, who he was, resurrection and all, was likely truth when I was early in high school. I didn't really see what that had to do with me. Not self destructive or anything like that, I just didn't care about being saved. Did not particularly matter to me. It was not part of the equation when I decided to accept Jesus as savior either. That was based on frustration. Stuff was not going well with me in charge so I decided to let Jesus drive and see if He did any better. Yeah, He did. Cool. Salvation, heaven, etc is a bonus, not my primary motivation.

Tom

Perhaps you should take a moment to actually read the thread title?

Crusades.....

Catholics believe themselves to be Christians.

I love the phrase "Godly Discussion"

He's a christian, which means he only needs
to read the instructions when all else fails.

I believe in God and pray every day but have a hard time believing parts of the bible like Noah's ark. FWIW, Emmet Fox's book "Sermon on the Mount" did more to help me believe that Christianity might be real than anything else so far.

If some parts are wrong other parts can be wrong.

This thread is a magnet for those wishing to
spread the Gospel.

Notice the usual Jesus club God botherers
were first on board.

I’ve watched Lonesome Dove 11 times and I wear a turquoise jeweled bolo tie.

I don’t need religion.

Also, he doesn't rent pigs.

AS,
Thanks for sharing that. We have a large community of "The Brethren" here in the Treasure Valley. They are the finest people one could know, or do business with. Very honest and industrious. They have enough kids to please Bristoe, and Jag. They could go a long way to perpetuate the white race. And the youth grow into fine Americans.

But there is a huge controversy surrounding the group and their religious freedom in the State of Idaho. The congregation believes it is a sin to contravene God's Will. If God wants you to die, you better die, if you want to get into Heaven.

Thus, their cemeteries are full of infants and preadolescent children. A young man I went to school with died at eighteen years from appendicitis. Another young man died at thirty years, leaving a young wife and two babies behind.....a twisted gut leading to peritonitis.

Both conditions easily cured with early 20'th century medicine.

Some will proclaim, "Oh, but those are not real Christians."

Who is to know.

Grin, I think spell check got the better of you in this post.

Those bolos and others w/ scorpions in acrylic were popular w/ the bomb builders from Los Alamos.

totally off subject but this thread deserves some distraction and Big Jim is falling down on the job.


mike r

Oh no.
I am not saying you are not citing valid points
Perhaps even undeniable truths....

I am just not certain it is an answer. Not a "why" if you will ..

But I wasn't going to put additional untyped words into your response.
I might suggest that that just because you don't necessarily agree with the promulgators of the story, doesn't mean that you cannot derive any enjoyment nor value from the story.

Just my take..

The OP question was - why are you not a Christian - and I gave an outline of the reasons why the bible and its claims are problematic.

If you don't agree with what I said, you should address the outlined reasons instead of dismissing it with a flippant comment.

If you’ve not read Mark Taylor’s “The History of The Bible “, pick up a copy. You’d probably enjoy it.

Is there something in this book that makes it stand out from numerous other books and articles on the history of the bible?

Long winded? Man carry on,this is the stuff that is interesting! Especially when someone who has really studied and is actually open to the idea that they may not yet know it all decides to chime in. I haven't studied nearly as much as I wish I had, but I've been listening to as much material on biblical history as I can over the last year. Its fascinating to me, but I know I still don't know much more than surface level stuff. So by all means, take all the wind you need...there's always plentys of short,sharp barbed posts in these discussions, so it'll be a nice break!

[/quote]

The atheists are drawn to a Godly discussion, like a moth to a flame, just to spout their stupidity. They have no desire to contribute anything. They just want to be disruptive. The above function is devine for ignoring the ignorant. I shake the dust from my sandals at both of these individuals.

God Bless you Brother Keith.

Jim[/quote]

Prime example right here.

This is a thread on why someone is not a christian yet it draws christians like a moth to a flame. I am not going to resort to name calling like the good christians do. I have seen the hatred among christians for a very long time. It is right here on the CF. Some christians would say that you all are not real christians by what you post here. Pretty plain to see that it is indeed man that has created god in his image. We can see it here plain as day.

Ah but religion is such a personal thing. And I am not here to convince you that you need to conform to my personal belief system (whatever that may be).

You didn't say "I don't believe because..." So you could just be baiting....(a flippant comment as you say)

My point is that the source done not necessarily mean that there is no value...

Your tag shows Queensland, AUS.

By parallel logic the source of much of Australia's population does not mean it's present population has the same perceived value as the settlers.....

Christianity (or any religious framework) what you make of it. Like life.

Terrorists have made Islam into a reason to kill for the unthinking and uneducated, twisted it into evil if you will.

Do you truly believe that despite some of its early users, that Christianity cannot be "twisted" to create something positive?

I hope that your experience in life has not been so terrible that you cannot derive some positive out of hardship...

If your mind is closed on the matter just go with what you’ve already got. It’s apparent that you’ve read them all in your search for “truth “ and need no further enlightenment.

I don’t have anything against Christianity or religion, but I have a hard time ignoring the human aspect of the Bible’s creation, or any religious writing for that matter. I believe in God. I believe in right and wrong. I feel God and see God around me every day. It’s easy to lose the forest through the trees, ie, not see God when you are focused on life. But if you stop life for a moment to look for God, he is all around. Just my take on it, but I’m one in 7+ billion.

So I'm guessing you are a Young Earth Creationist?

Because of 1000 threads like this per week!

It was a simple question. Nothing to do with me, what I believe or the state of my mind. If you can't answer the question without focusing on me, don't bother.

Certainly a younger earth than the millions and billions that evolutionists believe in. Yes I believe in the Genesis account of creation.

But the thread is to find out why some are not a Christian, not why I am, or what I believe.

I pissed off a friend and elk hunting partner yesterday.

He stated that every word of the Bible was true because God can not lie.

I responded that men with pen and paper can and definitely will lie.

And those POS levites and their 10% horseshlt line on YOUR money!

You debate religion with your friends?


Or maybe he was too eager to spread the good word?

Great comment and great question..... what is the “biblical standard” for being a Christian?

Now, I can easily surmise the opinion.....the opinion.... what a non-Christian would say..... we have seen countless examples of that.....


But what is the “biblical standard” is a very interesting question.....

What say you?

We know all of that.

All you have to know is that Hell will be horribly hot and eternity is not one day short of forever.

IT. CAN"T. BE. DONE!

But it's "interesting" watching them try. Bless their little hearts forever.

When the answer is foolish lies.

No one needs religion. We all need a relationship with the Creator.

No, he just doesn't believe you either.

The shootist: YOU (the shootist!) do NOT get to decide who and what constitutes a "Christian" - nor do you have any right what so ever to question anyones chosen religion or religious intensity/dedication.
I say you are an arrogant asswhole for even posing such a stupid question!
Sheesh.
I'll choose my "path" with absofuckinglutely NO input or criticism from you - if you don't mind!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Huh?

Jim

No, I do not debate. But sometimes I lay out a simple statement for one to think about.

And like many self identified Christians, this man can give me no lessons in morality.

I see.

Me and my friends ponder other types of things.

I've thought about it a fair bit and still can't quite decide what the correct biblical answer would be. On one hand, you have John 3:16 and numerous other passages that indicate believe=saved. On the other hand, it also says that not all who call him father will see the kingdom of heaven. Not even those who were able to drive out demons on his name will necessarily make it. Then we have multiple parables about how one should conduct oneself in the world, and bear good fruit, or else be cut down. The fruits of the spirit come to mind as well; if a professed believer does not exhibit any of the fruits of the Spirit, are they really a believer/Christian?

I'm not nearly a good enough bible scholar to make a good debate of this, but I wonder if this is part of the problem some people have with Paul, as is being discussed in the other thread. It seems to me that people come to Christianity for one of 3 main reasons. The first is a hereditary Christian, they are Christians because their parents and friends were Christians,and have never really considered anything else. The second is basically scared of hell and are hedging their bets, playing the "better safe than sorry" card. The third is looking for a way to be a better person, either due to traumatic life events or because they simply are not satisfied with themselves.

The second type seem very attracted to the idea that they can beleive and be saved, no further questions asked. These people often behave as badly or frequently worse than non believers, since they believe they have an ace up their sleeve that will save them in the end.

The third type are more interested in trying to live the teachings of Jesus, as they believe this is the guideline to follow to live a good life and live properly in the world.I would be inclined to agree with them on that point,btw, regardless of if the Bible is "true" in every other sense. The last two types are often in conflict because one thinks the other is trying to earn something that can't be earned, while the other side thinks the former are simply using their faith as a blanket permit to behave as they please and still be "Christian" and saved, making everyone else who is actually trying to live right look bad. At least, that's the best I can explain it right now.

It doesn't matter what he or you believe. You believe in the reality of bronze age myths, fantastic creatures, gods and demons.....which speaks for itself.

No, what I believe matters to me, just as what OMOTS believes likely also matters to him. What doesn't matter to me is what you believe or think of my beliefs.

That faith matters to him or to you is not being questioned.

To say it was not written by God is to purport to speak for God. So, on your premises you're no different than the Biblical writers you criticize.

I'm not christian or religious in any way because it is all total bullcrap. Luckily I wasn't subject to the brainwashing as a child, apart from a forced religious class during primary school - but even then I knew it was crap.

You’ve given this quite a bit of thought. Refreshing!

The short answer is that all of us are humans....and we all have spiritual starting points..... at the start of the journey, we seem to be mostly like the “carnal Christians” of 1 Corinthians 3..... “worldly Christians” so to speak. Paul refers to us as “babes in Christ” that can only take on “spiritual milk.” The carnal Christians may have behaviors indistinguishable from that of the world.

But, spiritual growth happens and most, but not all Christians grow in both knowledge of God and in also grow in right behavior. You may hear of how a Christians “good works” are laid on the foundation of salvation. 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 is fascinating and great with implication.

The goal seems to be spiritual growth ..... to become more like Jesus as we walk this earth. But, all of us are still in those fleshly bodies and still stumble and fall.... most of us do that on a daily basis. You may meet a Christian that is having a sin or flesh issue.....his foundation has been laid in that he is born again and saved by grace, but he is not living as he should and is not walking hand in hand with the Lord. You may meet another and see grace and peace and an attitude of joy and thanksgiving. Both are Christians in that they have had the foundation of the gift laid.... born again.

Most believers that have lived a few years will talk about a born again experience..... they will tell of their own spiritual growth....and most will tell of dry times.... times when they were not walking through life with Him..... Times of not standing firm and indeed giving into sin and wrong behavior.... and times of repentance and being brought back into a close walk.

So, trying to be brief.... all Christians share the foundation of the gift of the quickening of the Spirit. But, after the foundation has been laid, there is a wide.....wide.... wide spectrum of what is built on that foundation..... some build with wood and straw..... some build with stone..... the quality of each man’s work will be shown.

Important note: I hold to the idea that the believers will be judged on what he has built on the foundation laid by Christ.

Non-believers? Well, they will be judged ..... firstly... on whether or not the foundation has been laid. Is it there? Not good if the foundation which is Jesus Christ is not there, has been rejected.... well, not so good.


One comment about the “ace up their sleeve.” I would worry about the one who thinks he has a “get out of jail free card.” Best answer I can give is that in theory, yes, a death bed profession of faith can indeed lay the foundation...and maybe the only good work ever built on that foundation is that profession of faith. I’m ok with that. What I’m not ok with is somebody trying the game the system.... mouthing the words bit not taking the gift in hand and starting the walk.

The relevant scripture is Matthew 7:22-24:

“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy (preach) in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles? (lies?). Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’ Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them is like a wise man who built his house on the rock...”. (The house you build is your good works/ministry and the rock is the foundation of Jesus Christ.)

Okay, a couple points here. One can not purport to speak for that which he believes does not exist.

And second, yes many of us believe we are absolutely no different than those who wrote the scriptures in question. They were just greedy, fallible, sinners, like all the rest of us.

And yes I can use the word sinner. A sinner is one who takes actions in his/her self interest even though it will surely bring harm to another.

Lol.. I dont need to read a book or join a team to have values or ethics, its basic human nature. Specifically when the overwhelming evidence shows the over all Christian religion is riddled with horrible ethics and values.

Heres what I think. If I live a good, honest and productive life with only displaying 1/2 the hate and bigotry the average intolerant Christian does, God will give me a cut the line pass to heaven if there is such a place.

My Uncle In-Law was a pastor in the Methodist Church for 30+ years. The group his area used to manage their retirement accounts, mismanaged the funds and he was left hanging. Theres a man that served “god” for his entire career, and got bent over backwards. I guess him needing to keep working is all part of gods plan hahahaha...

Snake oil and fools gold. Theres always a catch with whatever someones selling.... and theres a lot of gullible buyers in this world.

Your first sentence, you couldn’t possibly be more wrong than that.

No?? Well use webster and look up two words in this order, and see how they play together.

Humane
Civilized


Its basic human nature..... its when mythology gets mixed with things that confrontation begins. Hence, my statements...

So... your sentence, you couldnt be more wrong sir.

You speak for all christians despite many not knowing all that.

much like your clueless comment about the Roman eagle Standard.
give good education a go before talking.




Your mythology is a powerful drug, or you are just weak.

You are wrong yet again. The values that you mentioned are taught/learned values that come from a set of moral standards.

You can fit and wordsmith any combination of words that you like but you are wrong and I think you know that and are just trying to save face of which you have none concerning this.

You’re wrong, pure and simple.

and we have seen countless differing christian opinions.....opinions.... on the same.

No... im not... and Im not going to waste my time trying to educate someone who believes in mythology either.

Do pack of animals need to read a book on how to function or does it come naturally? Do cats grooming on another need to be taught that or is it a natural relationship trait? Humane and civilized are natural human traits.. always have, always will be.

No go pick up other books and read them....

“ Natural morality describes a form of morality that is based on how humans evolved, rather than a morality acquired from societal norms or religious teachings”

“ The ability to recognize and act upon others' distress or danger, is a suggestive evidence of instinctive sympathy; common mutual services found among many social animals, such as hunting and travelling in groups, warning others of danger and mutually defending one another, are some examples of instinctive sympathy.”

“ From a naturalist point of view, it is probable that instinctive sympathy was first developed for animals to thrive by living in society just as the pleasure of eating was first acquired to induce animals to eat.[5] In this sense, morality is a crucial instinct for survival in social animals.”

“ Instinctive altruism effectively enables individuals to guarantee survival of the group, which in turn will aid survival of the individual.”

Its okay bro, your flat f’ing wrong, but its not what your cult wants you to think. Now just put your weekly contribution on the plate and come back next week.

Religion didn't create moral standards. The arrogant mis-guided religious believer thinks it did and thus commits all non-believers to being immoral. Religious wankers.

]

Pagans and pre-pagan man discovered such , but there was a special needs group that were so stunted,
they had to wait for the Bible.

such are the self-promoting 'show the way' types we have today.

What about Calvinists? You know John Calvin had a learned scholar burned in Geneva for heresy. I wonder if Jesus approved? What about Jimmy Swaggart? Benny Hinn? I've been getting calls from the prophet Manaseh Jordan, anybody know him? He's going to get my money turned loose that someone is keeping from me. I like Yeshua (aka Jesus) but he is sure getting a bad name on the 24 Hour CF. I thought I was a believer in and a follower of Jesus.

that explains much about or CF resident Calvanists.

Shootist,

I want to hold as many true, and as few false beliefs as possible.

Now juxtapose that against how far you religions has pushed your beliefs away from firmly established science. Heck, on the age of the universe, you are off by 6 orders of magnitude.

You have no idea of what my personal beliefs are except for that concerning that you continue to be wrong and surround your pitiful argument by being verbose and nothing more.

Hollow man.

You couldn’t find “the way “ with a map of it tattooed on the back of your hand.

I checked Wikipedia about this incident. He was in trouble for translating the bible from its original languages. It seems Dr. Michael Servetus was burned for disputing the Trinity and was against infant baptism. In Calvin's favor he argued that Dr. Servetus should only be beheaded instead of burned alive.

Calvin was defending the 'Honor of God'
cause Servetuses questioned the trinity.

Then Dec. 1533, we have Etienne Le Court,
who was strangled and burned by Inquisition
for suggesting that, among other things,
‘women will preach the gospel'.

From early 4th century onwards, it became
increasingly dangerous not to be a christian
or just the wrong type of christian.

I've been watching this thread since it started, interesting to say the least.

I have a question, Why would a christian start a thread like this and then make fun of and fight with someone who wasn't a Christian? Does one think they can bully or smart ass comment another into being a Christian?

This is actually one of the reasons the Wife and I don't attend any church now, we got sick and tired of dealing with arrogant Christians who thought they were better and "more saved" than everyone else.

I wonder what God has to say about pushing someone away from his face?

Paul, I know Keith, he would not start a thread just to be nasty.

No one said “religion “ did so nor were non believers categorized as immoral.

Moral standards:
You reckon the Ten Commandments had and today has any part in moral standards?

Yours is an arrogant non believer position with many false assumptions. You and those of your ilk are so much better than the believers ?

What say ?

Are you sure?

Prove that I am wrong....

Classic christian lacking those values I mentioned but full of that god fueled rage.....

What does any of this have to do with moral standards?

5:6 I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

5:7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.

5:8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:

5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,

5:10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

5:11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

5:12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.

5:13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:

5:14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

Yes Sniper, Keith, and I have shared meals in Wabigoon, Ontario. What you see is what you get.

I believe he didn't mean too and his "Hell ain't half full yet" crack was meant to be funny but it has turned into a "Nasty" thread that is completely opposite and counter productive of Gods Glory.

With the example the non-believers here have had I can't blame them for not wanting anything to do with Christians as a whole. Don't get me wrong it's not everyone here as there are some mighty fine Christians on this site, you being one.

I'll need to think on that Paul, I do think we all mean well.

I've seen you around here for too long to know that you're not stupid so don't tell me you didn't understand that as a smart ass comment.

Again, more assumptions on your part. You continue to dig your own hole. Rage? Because someone said you are wrong?

You have your own religion of sorts and I respect that. Just know that arrogance begats the same, mostly.

No, rage based on your angered sentences... and again, your incorrect:

re·li·gion
/rəˈlijən/
Learn to pronounce
noun
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

Jeez, man. Get a grip.
You non believers are really quite emotional over that which you profess not to believe in.

I believe that Wabbi but meaning well and doing well are sometimes a long way apart.

One of the reasons this bothers me so is I had a good friend that allowed himself to be pushed away from God by arrogant men, he died of cancer 22 years ago wanted absolutely nothing to do with God or religion to his dying breath.

He was a fine example of a man. Of all the people that have passed before me I still miss him the most as I know I will probably never see him again. I secretly hold out hope that he came to his senses before he passed but I have my doubts.

Serious thoughts Paul, we all have to walk that lonesome valley. Let us pray Jesus Lord will be there to take us by the hand.

I believe he's always there to take our hand, sometimes we just won't let him.

That's one of the challenging aspects of this medium, no facial expressions, no voice inflections....I don't recall Keith joining these threads in the past, so I wasn't sure how to take it, but it gave the appearance he was trying to strawman our position.

Believers use tactics of claiming immorality of non-believers and then deny later having made that claim, and that morality only exists today because of their religion. Seems morals pre-date many of the modern religions - means to help us all get along together nicely, in addition to those in-built natural morals. Many morals are man-made. The ten commandments are man made because god doesn't exist remember.

If you wanna lay claim to the good then you need to accept claim to the bad - prejudice and paedophilia seem to pop up with religious links quite often, amongst others

You have to forgive people to some extent, you have to remember it's incredibly frustrating arguing against obvious logical fallacies, and interpretations of "scripture" when you want them to be and literal when you need them to be. It all depends on the argument and the christians are arguing with.

The lack of self consistences from christians is a challenge. It can be emotional when you're so close to getting someone to see the light, and then at the last minute they fall back on cognitive dissonance.

It's only because we care about the truth.

I come into this late, to answer the question of why I'm not a christian?

I've yet to find a christian to give me evidence of the criteria they've used to rule out all other religions proving their own true. In fact, most haven't even looked at other religions.

They get brainwashed early on and then fear retaliation and dis-owning from friends and family if they ever change their view

It's not rare, but rare for people to admit to their friends, or have discussions like this (in person):

There are quite a few Conservative atheists. Call it the silent majority that elected Trump. I, for example am an extreme Constitutional conservative, and social libertarian. I have no allegiance to a God, however I do not have any animosity to Christians in any way. I have an analytical engineer's mind and thought process, and religion is just never going to be a leap I'll ever take.

The closest thing I have to a religion or belief in a higher order is the Constitution of the United States, and the oath I took to uphold it.

In this current climate, people like myself, and Christians have to stick together, since while we believe in different reasons, we (mostly) believe in the same outcome for our country. I may not have the same belief system, but I guarantee I probably vote the same way as most Christians.

I was one of those.... it's possible to break free!

Pagans each with their Gods from different cultures , accepted the polytheistic
Gods of other cultures , even intermingling them, getting along nicely,

Twas the monotheistic Jews and christians that came along with their intolerance and violence
dividing people and suppressing people with their enforced stringent beliefs.

They not only had it in for pagans , but also other Jewish and christian sects viewed as rivals.

Constantine had to step in to keep christians from tearing at each others throats,
it was that bad that it threatened to erupt into civil war for the region.

LC,

Great post.

Too bad you cant say the same.

Good for you, and the psychiatrist you answered to also. I'm glad yall are free of this terrible disease.

My views very closely mirror what he wrote above.

If you paid closer attention you would know that by now.

sheep cant type cause hands they have not.

Shepherd JC is more likely just to kick yer scatterbrain dumb ass along
so you dont keep his cantankerous arbitrary justice father waiting.


meanwhile on the valley path...

Sheep can get quite vicious when threatened, haha.

There is no doubt that all the books of the bible were written by people. There's a lot more that was not selected, the Gospel of Thomas, etc, both from Jewish tradition and later Christian works.

If it was inspired by the Creator of the Universe, as claimed, why would it be so full of errors and contractions? You may deny the errors and contradictions, but they are there regardless.

The moral of the story is, ..Don't turn yer back
on them chrizns.. coz they sly - play dirty.

Lmao... Do I need to copy and paste the definition of emotional as well... it appears you dont understand that word either, as your the one who’s upset. Im posting facts that you dispute with angst. Each of your rebbutals has sarcasm and or name calling, that would be emotional.

Again, prove anything I posted on this topic wrong. Its been several snide posts from you in response saying Im wrong, and I keeping asking for proof that I am....

Bueller.... Bueller.....

I guess my problem with "firmly established science" is that there are too many wild guesses put forward as truth in science. I keep hearing scientists say things like . . . . . it is possible that such and such could have happened. Then they start giving dates for things happening like 50 to 100 million years ago. They are admitting to an error of 50 million years and that is not science, that is guess work, and poor guess work at best. And then they get people to have faith in their theories and guesses. Could have, may have and might have are not scientific terms. It takes more faith to believe in science than it does to have faith in a the Lord God Almighty.

Have any of you guys ever read the Bible through from cover to cover?

Detractors of Christianity sit in judgment on God, and then run God down for sitting in judgment on them. "who does God think he is?" Well, he thinks he's God, and so do I.

Just one final thought . . . . . . . . God will let you believe anything you want to believe.

But he will not hold himself to take your beliefs and stamp his approval on them. Mine either for that matter.

The best way I know how, I'll stick with the Bible.

The Truth. Yes, surely. You seem to lump all Chr*stians into a single category.

I wish you well in your calling and ministry in the propagation of Truth for the benefit of the human race. Truly I do.

You are your own proof of being wrong.

You emotionally tilted types tend to derail in short order. Again, get a grip on yourself.

You seem to have little understanding of how science works. There are few absolutes in science. There are statements of accuracy and significant digits.


When a meteorologist states 50% chance of rain tomorrow, that is an accurate statement of the science.

Shall we throw out all weather forecasts as worthless because the TV can not tell where and when each drop will fall?

Likewise when paleontologists tell us the Ordovician period ended about 444 million years ago with extinction of 86% of Earth species, that is accurately reporting the science.

When they tell us of the next great extinction of 75% of Earth's species about 375 million years ago in the Late Devonian period, that is accurately reporting the science.

And they tell us of the third great extinction which ended the Permian period about 251 million years ago where 96% of Earth's species were lost. That also is accurately reporting the science.

And then the fourth great extinction event which ended the Triassic period, how or why is still unknown. But about 200 million years ago 80% of Earth's species ceased to exist in the fossil record. And that is also an accurate reporting of the science.

And finally the most recent mass extinction event about 66 million years ago which ended the dinosaurs' reign on Earth and was the end of the Cretaceous period. 75% of Earth's species came to an end with the impact of an asteroid which left the Chicxulub Crater under the Yucatan Penninsula. This also is an accurate reporting of the science.

I will leave it to you to explain how the remaining species propagated numerous diverse classes, families, and genera again after each of these extinction events.

Yes, I've read it cover to cover.... that in fact is what helped me become an atheist.

Science has predictive powers, otherwise it's worthless.

Faith has no powers whatsoever. The definition of faith is believing in something that you know not to be true.

They sensibly scrutinize Scripture written by fallible man and anonymous authors.

Even devout Christian scholars humbly ackowledge sections of the book are forgeries.

I don't think it's a matter of believing whatever we want. The world doesn't care what we believe, it is what it is regardless of our belief.

Well said.

IF everyone narrowly thought like that
we would not have the radial tubeless tire
.nor jets in the air.

It's not the world that counts in the grand scheme of things, so believe what you want. I'm sure the Lord needs a good laugh once in a while.

You have no idea of how dumb and off key that you come off as being.

Surely you say such things as this in jest.

geriatric Toot, I know you struggle with ordinary things
So here's the child version:

"Folks brave enough to think outside the square
get things done"

Society owes nothing to superstitious village idiots
with a Bible.

The World is observable testable reality. The 'World' is the Universe. The gods are only concepts used to explain the World, the gods are neither observable or testable, they are believed on the basis of faith.

Your accomplishments?

We know that you’re a two faced liar who went away only to sneak back in, crawling and using a sock puppet to do so.

Integrity? Intelligence?

You’re a pompous assed joke. And that’s being kind to you.

Wow.... next time you get sick, how about staying at home praying instead of seeing the doctor. Make the world a better place.

Toot sound like he's foaming at the mouth
with anger and rage, lost all rational sense.

Maybe he's having a revelation or just an
Alice in Wonderland mushroom experience.

Yet another “heavy hitter “.

One doesn’t need to rage or rail against phonies.

Or better yet, make an appointment with your optometrist.

How often do you chase the phantoms in your mind?

Btw: who are these "we" people you talk of?

Instead of just dealing with the argument, you are resorting to ad homs, offering insults instead of reasonable rebuttal. Why do that?

He might get upset if you even mention something touchy.....what would happen then?

Toot thinks he's caught a phantom,
Just like those Xtians that got their
Witch or heretic, now his village can
celebrate.

just imagine mystery authors with minds
just like that formulating scripture and then
passing it off as the true word of God.

Still waiting on you to provide one interesting or intellectual thought to this topic... not just insults (classic christian by the way).... can you not disprove one thing Ive typed?

Heh. You speak of phantoms.
What an imaginative fellow.

Hurling insults appears to be the way of some of the Christians, an improvement on Muslims I guess, which would be much worse.

What specific proof do you offer to your first sentence beyond mere conjecture ?

Another Russian troll

If Christians ever gain back power they'll be right back to the ways of their Muslim brethren. I guarantee that.

You atheists seem to have a distinct pattern of assuming things, especially to fit your loose narratives.

Cant attribute such to me, I just lifted
the idea from Bible,.. there's a character
It often mentions that nobody has ever seen
but tries to convince exists.

Several characters actually, many other gods are mentioned, especially in the old testament. They don't talk about that stuff much though, it's embarrassing.

Did you miss, “if you have seen Me, you have seen the Father “. ?

Your sail has no wind............you recall that I’m sure.

Embarrassing to you, perhaps ?

I like where it acknowledges the existence of other gods. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

In before 'buh that's metaphorical'.... even when it's in the same books describing other gods.

Go gett'm you Bible thumpers.

No... how does that make any sense that it would be embarrassing to me?

Unless you have actually seen such
you have nothing more than a phantom
floating around in your mind.

Back to phantoms again are you?

Not back, we are still ON the subject of your phantom.

nothing attracts anti gun Russian troll pedophile bannination like a christian thread

It would appear that you may have ‘other g*ds to follow?

Quite a narrative that you’ve managed to construe.

the God of sexually abusing a 6 year old boy

like I said, it ain't my narrative , it's lifted
from Bible.

You’re lonely and forgotten aren’t you?

Toots got no rudder and no wind,
Just drifting aloft....

Unintelligible. I guess we've hit the point of your cognitive dissonance. Too scared to give it a thought eh?

You concern me with your particular fascination with little boys. I mean... right out of no where.

Wellll, you put out enough hot air and flatulence to move all of our boats around and blow us off course.

It’s enough for you to know that I’m here for you when the dark days come as surely they will.

Pax, Starman .

As mentioned earlier, you are quite comical. I can appreciate that in a man.

This^^^

Doesn't it bother you that your brain is trying to take the topic to anything else other than what the topic actually is? I know man... I've been there, I feel ya.

How do you get blown off course with No wind?

You are prime example of Re: village idiot with a Bible.

Why are you not a christian? Well it isn't atheists who: practice shunning, conduct witch trials, engaged in 250 years of the crusades, over 200 years of the spanish inquisition, the endless wars of eastern europe, wars with the Ottomans, the conversion, rape, slavery and robbery of central and south america, oh, and let us not forget africa. Quite a track record for christianity eh?

Christians demonstrate the nature of their tolerance and love on this forum by abusing and flaming anyone who dares to question faith. It doesn't say much for religion or faith as a means to peace and harmony, that's for sure.

... and I can hear the argument now.... "Well those people aren't true christians™. " In that respect, I agree with the christians that would make that argument.

Yet they call themselves Christians and think of themselves as Christians. That is the sad part.

What’s your track record?

Quite a compliment from a pseudo, self important intellectual such as yourself..

Mr Toot, As a veteran, I find war abhorrent, as a human being that aspires to live by the golden rule, I find that religious war and overt action to convert heathens to christianity, totally unconscionable.

OT,

Mark Taylor's a common name.

This this the Mark Taylor you are talking about?

https://www.bibleconcepts.com/erics...y-others/prophetic-words-by-mark-taylor/

“Mark Taylor, a retired fireman from Florida began to receive messages supernaturally from God in 2011. The first one was that Donald Trump would be raised by God to become President of the United States. The prophecy detailed as to why God was going to do that. Since then, Mark has received about a dozen more prophetic words, many of which have begun to unfold on target. Examples are that the USA would become energy independent, the elimination of ISIS, and the replacement of 5 Supreme Court Justices. We have posted his prophecies here with his name and a few brief comments in brackets to aid in understanding the prophecies. He has also co-authored a book with Mary Colbert called, “The Trump Prophecies”, which details the background of all of his messages up to the date of publication. It is a very encouraging “must read” to help get a good grasp on what God is doing at this time. It is very different than the traditional religious gloom & doom that we’ve been taught.”

Commendable.

No, Sniper, I don’t think that’s him.

Btw, I have to say that I believe there’s a couple of categories of non believers, those being absolute atheist and those who are yet to believe BUT are truly searching for answers.

Those that are searching for proofs and are the ‘Questioners’ of most all things concerned with faith are the ones who break new ground and give others cause for introspection of their own beliefs. For lack of a better description, that’s the category that I place you in and I have an abiding respect for those like you. They study, they are well read and they make their cases in a clear, concise and understandable fashion . They are also very hard to refute. Again, I respect those folks and consider myself as having learned from them. Human nature and curiosity is a marvelous thing by my reckoning.

Anyhow, Sniper, that’s just my.02 cents on the matter.

Thanks OT.

I couldn't find the book you described on Amazon. They guy above was the most references on Amazon. I did locate a different Mark Taylor with a PHD in a related field with about 20 publications, but nothing matching your description.

Thanks again.

He is a PhD and has published works. He leans towards the Anglican side of the equation.

My book is out there somewhere among friends and unknowns. My name and address are in it so it might show up someday.

I think that the proper title is:
The History of The Bible

The interesting parts for me were the sequential developments of it and the modifications procedures to allow for manuscripts later discovered or for the better understood meanings of specific words that were later defined differently according to later manuscripts, etc.

Meantime, You stay well and press on with the search.

How about it Ejp1234 ?

Your support group here should be able to lend you some amount of assistance beyond that of your Webster’s Dictionary that you pack around with you.

Hint:
Pick up a copy of Mr. Rogets Thesaurus and keep it with you too. Might even have a calming effect on those heavy emotions that you exhibit so well and frequently.

People have been searching for gods for a long, long time.... believing in the existence of countless numbers of them along the way, each generation of believers convinced that their own beliefs are true. That is the truth. I hope it's not too harsh.

Yet one remains and ever shall til the end of time.

What started as a small brotherhood in Judea and then went on to Greece to become a philosophy , later moved on to become an Institution,,,,,and so it remains, warts, charlatans and all.

Chr*stianity is here to stay, like it or not.

That is the Truth. I hope it’s not too harsh.

Each and every believer confirms their conviction by stating what they believe, this alone doesn't prove that what they believe is true, is in fact true, no matter how sincere the conviction.

That takes objective evidence, a body of information that anyone can access and evaluate and draw a similar conclusion.

Be that as it may, what I wrote is fact .

You are, of course, quite free to draw your own conclusions and believe what you will.

I wish you well in your search.

Believe what you like, it doesn't matter as long as it harms no one....however, facts are established with evidence, which is something accessible to all who care to look.

The big difference being that your way never helped anyone.

Any sensible Christian in need would prefer
a non-Christian life saving surgeon over just
A bunch of faith/prayers from a church group.

This is priceless from a Christian in a god thread.

According to Wikipedia Christianity is on the decline and Islam is on the rise

Except this a non-God thread.

Allegedly.

Allegedly your God exists, at least in the
Imagination of men.

I think your post is misdirected.

Only misdirected if you don't believe in any one
of many Gods to chose from.

If that is the truth what criteria did you use to rule all the other gods out? This should be an easy question, so how about actually answering it?

What do you mean by that? More detail please.

Such Q. is way way over Toots capability.

You wont get rational explanations from smoke
and mirrors primitive cult mythology mindsets.

I’d like to see some of the christian apologists address flintlocke’s thoughts; I have often wondered the same things myself. I know Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao, et al were bad, but since the dawn of civilization, the good christians have been right alongside of them in terms of the death and destruction, misery and suffering they have inflicted on others, all in the name of “god.”

If “god” is out there he is a hell of a lousy parent/creator. Why create something and watch it go into the shatter. Would you stand there and watch one of your kids shoot his brother or sister, or beat them to death, or set them on fire, or chop their head off? Would you stand there and watch some pathetic loser walk through a school building, shooting your precious little creations to death by the dozen?? “God” does it every day. And when someone asks why, we are told that “god” works in mysterious ways; that we mere humans cannot understand “‘god’’s plan.” Don’t give me that crap. That what christians say because they have no idea why, and it makes no sense to them either.

Hitler was a theist. Stalin studied to be a priest....
quote;
''Religious apologists, particularly those of the Christian variety, are big fans of what I have dubbed, the atheist atrocities fallacy. Christians commonly employ this fallacy to shield their egos from the harsh reality of the brutality of their own religion, by utilizing a most absurd form of the tu quoque (“you too”) fallacy, mingled with numerous other logical fallacies and historical inaccuracies. Despite the fact that the atheist atrocities fallacy has already been thoroughly exposed by Hitchens and other great thinkers, it continues to circulate amongst the desperate believers of a religion in its death throes. Should an atheist present a believer with the crimes committed by the Holy See of the Inquisition(s), the Crusaders and other faith-wielding misanthropes, they will often hear the reply; “Well, what about Stalin, Pol Pot and Hitler? They were atheists, and they killed millions!”

''I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.'' - Adolf Hitler (1941)

Let's hear it from the best:

Excellent video A.S., thanks for posting!

Christians want to have their cake and eat it.

when a perp shoots up a school...

-They bemoan-lament the terrible 'pure evil' events
that took place.

-Then they console/try to comfort distraught parents/
families/community, to trust its all Gods will.

-They also pray to change God's will cause they
don't like or have faith in the events of God's will.

Now If you only found rare individuals
like that you'd say, OK an anomaly..
But tragically you find them in common
large sheepbrain groups!

I might argue that the examples above of Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler etc.....conducted their wars, crimes and atrocities for power, riches, glory, ego, and so on. The christians, muslims, ostensibly to impose a belief system, or religion if you prefer on the unbelievers. The horrors commited by both were the same, yes. The motivation was different, power vs religion. Ethnic cleansing is in a class by itself when it comes to inhumanity.

I have not read one thing on this thread but know, I respect your beliefs.




It's you're eternity. Not mine.

What do you mean by that? More detail please.
[/quote

Start with faith based charities on the Chr*stian side of the equation.]

Do you not understand that you are free to worship or not worship in any or no fashion at all. It’s your call. If you worship Satan and many do, then have at it. It’s yours to do. If you say worship and belief in the Cre*tor is a waste then go forth and ignore it. If deriding Chr*stians makes you feel justified, it’s your right to do so.

No one can argue against that.
That’s all I can offer you.

You’ve always hung out with the wrong folks, it would appear.

Heh, heh.

“And why do the heathen rage.”

ETA:
This mythology that you speak will be here long after you’ve crossed over . Take comfort in that fact and how pitifully little your efforts contributed to the demise of it. Pfffff’t.

“Why Are You Not A Christian”

I am no longer a Christian because AS, starman and a few others have enlightened me.
Thank you guys for your wonderful service, this is a long time coming freedom.

👍🏼

You always did choose the right “path”.

What a riot!!

OT,

Many religions have come and gone, sometimes over period of thousands of years.

The Churches of Europe are now largely empty, and in the U.S. the fastest growing group in "Nons", i.e. the non-believers and non-affiliated.

This trend is even more pronounced across generations with younger Americans being far less religious.

Bear in mind, Hitler was Catholic, and made several reference to his Christian Faith in Mein Kampf.

Charity is not limited to Christians.

Tom,

That's great to hear. I'd glad you are no longer living as a slave to Bronze Age superstition. This is the only life we know for certain we have. Your de-conversation can help you focus on this life, and making the biggest difference for those and what matters the most to you, here, now, in this life.

This could be challenging for you if the majority of people in your life are believers. You will have to gauge how they may react, and how to best work through it. It's not unusual for friends and family to shun or ostracize new Free Thinkers. If you wife's a devout Christian it's important to tread lightly, after all, for most people that's your most important relationship.

Of course, part of being a Free Thinker, mean you actually have to think for yourself. It means examining your foundational presuppositions and and asking yourself if they are true, and if not, what does that mean to how you interact with others, and live your life in general. It can be a daunting proposition, but you should be up to it.

Best of luck to you.

AS.

Because it makes my head hurt...

Sorry Old Hoot.... Im out of town, in a city jammed packed with Christians doing extreme Christian things...

Vegas....


Im not really trying to take a lot of time to teach you anything else. I imagine church is big $$ here too.... lots of sinning to forgive hahaha

So you're saying that you spun the religion wheel and it came up Christianity so you went with that. I love the way you operate - that's easily the laziest intellectual rigour I've ever seen

nor is promise of an afterlife limited to christianity.

some odd reason they think they got exclusive patent on the process.




that would be rare, since most are indoctrinated from a naive child, before they can know any better.

so christians are not the victims they so often claim to be.

Studies show that secular democratic states are fairer, more equitable and peaceful than theocracies. Compare the Nordic states to Iran, Iraq, Siria, etc, for social livability....

I doubt a true Holy Spirit type would give up so easily,
like most, Tom prob only had some cheap window dressing he liked to call faith.

Another way to say this, is the less Fundamentalist the beliefs of a country, the better the outcomes for it's citizens.

Sniper you’re dead center right on mainstream churches losing in a big way, a very big way. The problems are, specifically, that the members didn’t leave their churches, it was and is a case of the churches leaving their members.

I think we need to separate out the terms ‘religion ‘ and ’Chr*srianity”. The latter is alive and well, the religions,,,,not so much.

What we are seeing in our general area is quite a growth in the smaller non-denominational churches that are Bible based and without all of the “social issues, du jour’ if you know what I’m implying here.

I was born, baptized, confirmed and married as an Episcopalian. That denomination today bears no resemblance whatsoever to its past and it’s damned sad. They (the so called, leadership) go whichever way that the social wind blows. Your points are well made and taken.

I still tithe and support our small Church because it is in the Traditional Style and only because of that. Our Minister is one of the hardest working ones that I’ve ever witnessed. Of course, that could change next week.

As you say, Amigo,,,,the writing is on the wall. I see no return to what was the past.

Man, you made me laugh !

You stay well and take care.

In a manner of speaking we’ve somehow managed to swap insults and sort of compliment each other on the quality of the insults passed between us.

Again, stay well.

OT

No sane person could argue with what you’ve said.

I didn’t say that at all. You did.

I appreciate your loving the way I operate.

I never said that it was.

But would you please name me an Atheist based charity group?

I am assured the evolution of the church(s) is no new phenomenon. Those in charge of collecting profits have been inclined to alter "The Message" so that it encompasses an ever larger congregation all the time. We have 2000 years of recorded history demonstrating just this.

Constantine is but one example. Priests and rulers have always rewritten doctrine in such a way as to gain power and money.

Some would call it, “A Changing Church for a Changing World “. Now ain’t that accommodation for ya !

I seem to recall something about ‘the same today, yesterday and forever, unchanging ‘. Appears that it sort of slid off of the table.

Tis pretty obvious that many of the largest congregations never read Leviticus.

But, hey, whatever it takes to fill the coffers and keep the Priests fat and satisfied.

The Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science

Atheist Community of Austin

There's two.

Man, you made me laugh !

You stay well and take care.

In a manner of speaking we’ve somehow managed to swap insults and sort of compliment each other on the quality of the insults passed between us.

Again, stay well.

OT[/quote]

I sure wish I could insult as well as Mark Twain and Christopher Hitches.

Man has invented literally thousands of gods to explain that which they could not understand and to establish order and control over other people. The only difference between me and a christian is that I believe in one less god than you do.

Yes, it's always the other man's God that is false, never one's own.

Word.

Now we are getting somewhere. Your religious choice wasn't yours - you were brainwashed into it.

That is two, indeed.

By comparison I can say that as a microcosm, every denomination in just the city of Baton Rouge has the same, food bank, soup kitchen, clothes for the poor, shelters for the homeless, free pharmacy and the list goes on.

In my small rural area there are six.

We’re talking a sixty mile radius, for reference.

Nobody is arguing against the good work that Christian organizations do, or the benefits that religion brings to believers, but it's wrong to say that religion is the only source of aid for the needy or that it takes religion to care.

Who so much as even implied that?

Let’s see your atheist list of benevolence while we’re at it here.

You are implying even now....perhaps without realizing it. I'm posting on the phone so I can't quote relevant information at the moment. I'll just mention that we have many government programs to aid those in need.

Our government does the same.

I’ll wait for your list of atheists benevolence. Take your time.

Here is one

https://foundationbeyondbelief.org/

That’s 3 in a row.

Want to throw in the aclu to the pile?

An article from Washington Post highlighting atheist groups trying to help, but the good christians not accepting.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...6-68f2-11e3-997b-9213b17dac97_story.html

And another

https://www.coyotecommunications.com/stuff/atheists.shtml

Ohh yeah, scoony, The Wapo. Good source never known for fake news.

Our government is secular yet it shows greater benevolence toward the needy than many theocracies.....I gave a comparison between the Nordic states and several theocracies earlier.

Yeah.