Yondering - Thanks for the reply, and
I'm very interested in your thoughts on this new round, as well as thoughts from JWP475.The problem I'm having is I can't find anything quantifiable on the wound cavity, just anecdotal; and I don't accept anecdotal as scientific; especially when the anecdotal comes from the people trying to sell a product. Let's be real here, bullet salesmen have a history of being very much like snake oil salesmen.
I do understand how permanent cavities are made and how it's not all frontal diameter or expanded diameter; I get that, and totally understand how, depending on bullet shape and construction you can get larger than caliber wound cavities from a non-expanding solid...I'm no stranger to that concept. Heck I've seen it first hand in the field on several occasions. And I agree there's a good deal more at play...so I think I'm on the same page as you there; but I still appreciate you bringing the subject up...never assume
My issue is I can't find anything objectively MEASURABLE beyond bullet weight, velocity, and penetration...and I'm a big believer in the old axiom of "you cannot improve what you cannot measure". I'm also a believer in President Reagan's "Trust, but verify".
I also understand that ballistic gelatin is limited, but I have yet to find a better testing medium; so good has to do when perfect just isn't available. And honestly, Lehigh is using ballistic gelatin, so they seem to believe it has value, and their use of, and claims made, while using ballistic gelatin makes it reasonable to ask for objective measurement in ballistic gelatin, wouldn't you agree?
Historically speaking whenever a new bullet comes out that's significantly different from conventional design, there are always a lot of anecdotal claims made, and simulations setup to support these claims. Only to find out later that in the real world, they just don't hold up. And I'll also admit, in my youth I was taken in by a couple. I remember when myself and many others thought the Glaser Safety Slug was the end all, only to later find out, not only was it not the end all, but it was a very marginal defense load altogether.
What's more, this isn't a completely new bullet design. This approach has been tried at least twice. But I'm not so closed minded that I can't consider that someone finally got it right. But neither am I gullible.
Regarding the 2k velocity thing, I don't understand your statement (below)
in the context of my comments about stretch cavity.
Velocity of the tissue ejected away from the nose is what matters
I think that was supposed to be a statement to refute the 2k velocity thing...Like, the velocity of the projectile isn't as important as the velocity of the tissue ejected away from the nose...is that what you're getting at?
The problem is, the velocity of the tissue being ejected away from the nose can't be any higher than the velocity of the projectile; so I'm not getting your statement. Maybe you can clarify...because I think you may be understanding something I'm not and I'm hoping you can educate me. I also know myself, and I know that while I have a decent grasp on terminal ballistics, I'm far from an expert, and there are those on these forums that understand it much better than I do (such as yourself and JWP475, as well as a few others). So I'm hoping for a learning opportunity here.
What I keep coming back to is, how can one take their claims as gospel when the only objectively measurable pieces of data they have are: bullet weight, velocity, and penetration? Unless I have missed it, no other element of this bullet's performance has been accounted for in any objectively measurable way. And if I did miss that, please show me where the data is; I'm very interested.
I'm interested because if this bullet REALLY WORKS as they say it does, it could be a real game changer for the military.
And like JWP475, I think there's always room for specialty rounds in one's arsenal. It's just foolish to think one round does it all. Actually it was JWP who got me to re-consider what I carry in my spare magazines, and now they will sometimes carry specialty rounds like a hard cast flat point.
Again, thanks for yours and JWP's responses.
