Originally Posted by Yondering
Velocity of tissue ejected to the side is dependent on shape of the bullet and bullet velocity (among other things); trying to put a bullet velocity number like your 2000 fps on this across the board assumes that shape of the bullet doesn't matter, which is not correct. That 2000 fps number may be correct for round nose or spitzer designs that don't push material away to the side as fast.

Think about a round nose or FMJ pistol bullet (non-tumbling for sake of argument), where material pretty much flows around the nose with relatively little lateral force. Now compare that to an expanded hollow point, with essentially a very large flat in the front, that pushes material to the side much faster even if the bullets are going the same speed. The ED design acts more like the hollow point, but it's the flutes in the sides, rather than the nose, that scoop material out to the side at high velocity.

Or, think about what happens when you pee on a flat rock. That splash effect is what I'm referring to.


Ahaaa…There’s the disconnect. You’re talking about permanent/crush cavity and I’m talking about temporary/stretch cavity.

The 2,000fps number was in relation to wounds secondary to stretch cavity. Under 2,000fps (as a general rule) the stretch cavity produced by most bullets is insufficient to overcome the elasticity of most soft tissues. Now that’s a big generalization but it’s pretty accurate. Obviously some variables such as bullet construction and shape, as well as all the variables of what constitutes “soft tissue” in a human can have an effect on that rule, so it’s not a hard and fast rule; just a generalization. But in my observation it’s pretty accurate and relevant generalization.

Even very high velocity handgun bullets like 110-125 grain .357’s typically don’t create stretch cavity wounds (where tissue is stretched beyond its elastic limits, usually looks like tearing), or wounds to non or less elastic tissue that’s disconnected from the permanent/crush cavity. But beyond 2000fps impact velocity, that’s when you see such wounds. Stretch cavity wounds can play a significant role in wounds inflicted by a rifle, but generally they don't play much of a role in handgun wounds unless the wound comes at or VERY close to a very inelastic organ or tissue. Examples would be the liver or vascular areas where vessels branch off...there with a close hit even a handgun can cause the vessels to rupture even though there was no direct contact by the bullets.

I had a patient who was shot mid-abdomen about 3" to the right of his belly button. He was shot from about 10 yards away with a .30-30 soft point and the stretch cavity tore his liver almost in half; he died pretty quick. That's an example of a shot well away from the liver where the stretch cavity was the make or break element. As a general rule, you don't typically get that from a handgun.

Anyhow, you are speaking of the role of velocity in the contribution/enhancement of the permanent/crush cavity, and yeah, that can and does happen at much lower velocities; and bullet construction/design can play a meaningful role.

I kinda suspected we were talking about two different things. Thanks for clarifying.