Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Miles,

I have so far restrained myself somewhat when reading your posts, but I have far more experience with various monolithics at different ranges and velocities than you do--at least from what I recall from your posts, which indicate you usually shoot whitetails at shorter ranges.

I can categorically state, from plenty of actual experience with various bullets at ranges from close up to 500+ yards, that you are absolutely FOS about how monolithic damage innards compared to bullets that lose more weight. In fact I known quite a few professional hunters (both guides and cullers) who have been astonished at the INTERIOR damage done by Bergers, and similar bullets. They have seen FAR more animals killed than you have, with your "vast" personal experience. As in thousands.

Of course, you will respond with something else from your limited experience, and also something about the dangers of lead-core bullets. Go ahead.


I shoot light for caliber monos whenever possible. Run any expanding bullet through the lungs on a deer and you can expect red soup lungs when you start them at above 3200 FPS and that tends to be what I see. I have never even shot a deer with a mono heavier than 150. Secondly I have never stated or insinuated that monos kill faster than cop and core bullets. But I do not believe that they have killed less quickly than cup and core either. A little over 100 deer with monos is good statistical numbers and can be very predictive. Shooting another thousand beyond that will not contribute greatly to the pattern established by that first hundred. As for Bergers I have never used them and never intend to because I have no need to mess up more venison than necessary. I have an accurate 300 WM that is perfectly capable of doing such should I ever feel the need. Lastly, I respond to posts about monos because I use them and have done so almost exclusively since we got the XLCs Prior to that I used mostly Core-Lokt and some silver tips with a few federals thrown in. I have personally examined the holes in almost every single deer killed with the ammo I loaded and butchered many of them. I suppose my average range with a rifle has been just over 100 yards which may short range for western states but it is also further than most here in Minnesota.

I don't know where you get the idea that that many deer with monos is not a significant number. Probably from the the same mistake bucket that the assumption that I claimed they were no different than cup and core bullets or that I have "limited" experience. I have reloaded and shot deer with those reloads from the beginning. I have tested those reloads in a number of ways from the beginning. I think you will look long and hard to find someone averaging 4 deer/year in Minnesota but for a year in which my eyesight almost prevented me from shooting even one in the last twenty years.

Now, if you believe that lung shots that make red soup out of them are different I am willing to listen, but from what I have observed I start from the position that no lungs is no lungs. Likewise when you blow the great vessels up or destroy the heart. I have killed deer with a bow where the heart was loose in the chest. I have run very large cut broad heads through deer lungs and found the results of both quite comparable to what happens when you do the same with a rifle. A properly placed large cut broad head will put Bambi down pretty consistently in the same 50-60 yards a rifle will with the same shot. That make a decent argument that wrecked lungs is wrecked lungs and that beyond that you get into more shock effect that can also come with much larger than necessary destruction like a 300 WM with a 130 at 3600 FPS.