Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Originally Posted by Hastings
Originally Posted by Hoosier_Beagler
Originally Posted by Hoosier_Beagler on 3/11/24
Sure, there's a stairway to heaven. It was first mentioned in Genesis 28:12 and definitively identified in John 1:51.

To clearly answer the question from the OP: Yes, I believe in the triune God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Throughout history there has only ever been one "stairway to heaven:" The Son of Man, Jesus Christ. This was true even before Christ's incarnation, birth, crucifixion, and resurrection and continues to be true today as well. [Job 19:25] Scripture records a "great cloud of witnesses" professing this same truth throughout history. [Heb 12:1]

Prior to Christ's incarnation, God acted to steward the nation of Israel so that it would bring forth Christ exactly as foretold "so that Scripture might be fulfilled." The Old Covenant, along with His rod, was largely established to keep the nation separate from the world and close to Himself. While God did not change, once Christ came into his glory, the Old Covenant was fulfilled and the New Covenant, which had always existed, became manifest. No one, before or after Christ, was saved by keeping the Law.

Since the fall, there has always been misery in the world, corruption in the church [Jer 23:1-2], and abuse of children [Ex 1:15ff]. There is nothing new under the sun. I believe there is also hope even among those killed by Herod/Pharaoh, those sacrificed to Molech, and those aborted in our day. This hope is centered on Christ and conveyed even to the unborn by the Holy Spirit. In this matter, I do not place limits on God.

In this thread, the faithful have made their confession (each in their own fallible way), are shaking the dust from their cloaks, and are departing the conversation. Be not concerned that what remains is dominated by mockery. [Acts 18:6; Ezk 33:1-6; 2 Kgs 19:14-16] Broad is the road... And yet, their end has not yet come. There is still time. Consider the conversion of St. Augustine.

The crux of the disagreement is clearly set forth in 1 Cor 15:14-19. Has Christ been raised from the dead? If not, we Christians are most to be pitied. It's no wonder that Easter, less than two weeks from now, is our highest festival.

This I believe, Lord help my unbelief. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to sound the trumpet.
There is a bit of a problem here. There are untold billions and billions of humans that were born and died on this earth that had absolutely no way of knowing about Jesus or the nation of Israel. Are they condemned to death or hell whichever it may be?

It makes me wonder if there might be such a thing as reincarnation. A just God would not condemn his child for ignorance over which the child had no control. Would he?

Otherwise there are those billions of souls that are condemned without ever having a chance. It's a problem.
Hastings, I dealt with this issue early on in this thread. I explained that it should be suggested to God that this point be addressed as it is unreasonable that good people don't go to heaven/or get a chance to go to heaven in the situations you described.
I am not going to put myself in the position of telling our supernatural creator how to handle his business but I think there is way more to getting right with God than some scholars of the by grace system would have us believe.

There are too many unanswered questions in that system. For instance the babies and toddlers that were destroyed at Sodom, at Jericho, at Ai, and during the purge of the tribe of Dan, did they receive eternal death or damnation or do they get another bite at the apple.

Jesus inferred that there was such a thing as reincarnation and from the sources I read belief in reincarnation was very much a thing in the early Christian church.


Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."