We can agree to disagree. The dead animal crowd has great credibility however they are not using typical carry gun cartridges. Flat nosed, 1500 FPS 45 caliber 300 grain bullets will shoot thru a lot of meat, and they have little in common with 230 grain 45 caliber hollow points at 950 FPS. If they want to extrapolate from a 454 Casul to a 45ACP that is fine, but no major agency, military, etc etc has stuck with the 45ACP and "on average" there is very little difference between a 9mm and a 45ACP in a self defense situation.
