Originally Posted by Charles_A
For an all-around gun-

Cons

-18in Barrel is to long and unnecessary
-6.8 is expensive and unnecessary
-Vltor Upper while being high quality, is heavy and unnecessary



What you described is really a specialized gun.



You mentioned using it for SD/HD. If you hadn't then it's just whatever you want. If you think you may have it for serious use then there are certain things you will want.

Stay with tier on manufactures-Colt, LMT, Noveske, etc., or a really good "smith" that uses tier one parts. S&W also makes a pretty good gun. Forget Bushmaster, DPMS, Rock River, Olympic, etc. for serious use. They have to many problems.

Make sure you get a barrel that is chambered in 5.56 with a 1-7 or 1-8 twist, do not get one with a 223 chamber. 1 in 7 or 1 in 8 twist will shoot light bullets just fine, and will stabilize 77gr OTM's which do make a difference at range. Make sure it has a chrome lined chamber and bore. You're not using it for High Power matches- a 5.56 chamber and fully chrome lined barrel will help make sure it works, and as long as you get a good quality barrel you will not have a problem averaging 1MOA with match ammo.
You can also use a good stainless barrel with a Wylde or MK262 match chamber, but you do give up some longevity and durability, and reliabilty with certain types of ammo with them.

An 18-20in barrel is unnecessary. It decreases maneuverability, adds weight and aids very little in mid range shooting. A 16in barreled gun is fully capable of shooting and hitting at mid range (5-600yds), and is much better for running and gunning.

Use a free-float handguard.

In general stay away from "match" triggers. If you shoot a lot and/or attend a training class, and you should, they will fail. The exceptions to this are the Gesielle and the AR Gold, though the utility of a 2lb trigger in self protection is debatable.

As to optics- they can be whatever you prefer. All-around means from contact distance to mid range (0-500yds or so) however in real life the mass majority of use is probably going to be under 200yds. So a suitable red-dot (Aimpoint) especially with a magnifier or a low power variable (1-4x, 1.5-5, etc.) is going to be the most useful.



There is actually a name for this type of rifle and it was started by military SOF. It's called a Recce, and they work very well at a whole bunch of tasks.









Isaac

My take.... barrel goes 2-3 ways for length, 16 is worthless for much of anything but specialized. Its not a varmint or plinking tube, and its a LOUD SOB...

20 is a good compromise

26 is fine if you need all out speed...

223 is fine for combat, but I think you will do some hunting, while I'm totally comfortable with the 223 and right bullet for most deer, the 6.8 gives a bit more umph... and choosing caliber will depend on what your main goals are vs ballistics and cost of ammo.

I beg to differ on quality of some that are said to be bad... I've run so many rounds through RRA and not had any major problem... Of course I don't run as many rounds as others but have run between about 8-20K a year for many years without issues.... and the triggers in a lot of those guns were RRA NM triggers without an issue.

Chamber wise... a wylde is a 5.56 chamber with a bit better throat... it has no other differences from a "combat" chamber so to speak and it won't have any issues with any ammo unless you can find a bullet thats over standard diameter. Beyond that its fine.
I have nothing against a good chrome barrel if you get a good one. They are MOA tubes or better. And live longer lives than SS ones. But you have a decent chance of getting a bad chrome lined one too. That lining has to be done to a good tube to start with and done correctly, IE a cheap chrome one isn't worth the time unless you want to only blast.

I tend to agree on twist rate. 8 minimum

Match triggers.. all I can say is that while shooting and while running matches, I've seen one match trigger go down, I have seen some lightly set ones not keep weight at 4.5 pounds or over by leg rules, but they never failed to work, while I have seen about 3 IIRC standard ones fail. Luckily I carry many spare parts with me and can replace about anything thats field expedient in a match, including a complete trigger...
As mentioned Geisselle are going to govt contracts at the moment....

Sight wise my take is if you can't engage a decent sized target like a human silhouette with irons out to 600, you better learn HOW to shoot. But that doesn't mean I'm against glass and for most purposes glass is a good shot at it. I've never been a huge fan of red dots, I've used them a lot but they just never lit my fire, I can shoot as good or better with irons generally, but in fairness i have a bit of time with irons.

BTW I do have an 18 inch tube, and FWIW I just don't see that the 2 inches makes it any better in a house situation, or even the 4 inches of a 16 all that much better. In a house, regardless of others, I'd still clean house more confidently with a shotgun. And carry a carbine or 20 incher for outside work.
While FTR mentions penetration issues, I've been led to and read so much I'm almost convinced that 55 soft points would be safe in a house. OTOH I've shot 69 bthps through a sxs fridge/freezer at over 300 yards, that means I ain't using them in a house....

Float tube is a requirement as its a good thing and reliable enough, though I have seen 2 come off at the welds years ago...


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....