This case could very well have huge impacts for hopefully many states but at least Wyoming.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/corner-crossing-legal-fee-fundraiser

I don't see how it could be trespassing since they never set foot on the private land because they used a ladder to step over the corner. Fun with lawyers. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

What I have been told is The rich landowner called the DA office over 15 times and they were charged with trespassing. A game warden was on site and watched them cross also.
The hunters also crossed last year and then this year the landowner added the chains.

I understand if a landowner has a chunk of land locked public within their property that isn’t accessible. This isn’t that though. This is a corner and the public should have access to our public lands. This landowner just uses the public lands for his personal gain and tries to keep all others out.

I think the landowner would have been better served installing 20 foot high fence posts but we'll see what happens. I'm guessing the charges will be dropped because they'd rather have an ambiguous law that they can use to scare hunters from crossing corners. Then Land Tawney can use the gofundme money for his own personal stimulus dollars.

I will admit I’m a bit skeptical of BHA involvement but will see what happens.

Very typical Wyoming access lockout. Not sure what the case law is but generally the private landowners can block access at these section corners. At least that's what we've all been taught by G&F.

This is a very grey area when talking to WY game wardens. WY Game wardens can’t cite for criminal trespassing but can cite you for trespassing on private with the intent to hunt. Meaning if you knowingly/unknowingly crossed private to get to public to hunt the warden can cite you. If you legally crossed the corner they can’t. Hence the reason the county DA is the one who was called 15 times by the landowner and he called and had a deputy dispatched to write the charges on the hunters.

The law is ambiguous at best . I thought in the checkerboard areas you couldn’t cross . Which made no sense to me.
This would open up a lot of public lands in Wyoming.

You're an idiot if you donate one cent to the anti gun BHA to fight this

BHA has millions to fight this and have refused to do anything to help in the past

I wouldnt touch anything BHA has anything to do with or give them one red cent.

Bingo. Doubt they technically trespassed....but F bha.

Straight troof

So they can never be on the right side of an issue?

I don’t agree with much of BHA, but this issue I do.

All im saying is i would be damn careful with anything BHA has there stamp on it.
I have a hard time getting into bed with anything them fuggers have anything to do with.

If the ranchers think they own it, be sure they pay the taxes on it.

No necessarily. But I find it hilarious they are begging for money. I bet a former board chairman has some money lying around from the anti gun book he just wrote.

With over 300k in "merchandise revenue" in 2020 I bet the mothership could pay a little....

BHA still sucks.

this is a publicity stunt to increase their status

BHA is a cancer you can’t afford to befriend. Whatever BHA or Brent Danielson are for, you need to be against.

Bout like any non profit… someone is lookin out, and it ain’t for your rights, folks are gettin rich…

Not true, WG&F has stayed out of this argument. They will not site you for trespass.

I used to hunt in Wyoming with an ex-friend who went hard left on everything. He tried to get me to see BHA as something that is acting on behalf of hunters, but then he'd also say stuff like there should be no private land, everything should be owned by the government and all that other Marxist crap.

The last time we hunted together, he pointed out how easy it was for "public land owners" to undermine the rights of those who own private land by doing exactly what these bozos did with corner crossing and combine it with lawfare by radical environmental groups.

Our breaking point was when I bought land in MT and he scorned me for being part of the problem when it comes to "my public lands". Last thing I said to him before we stopped talking was that if public lands are his, then they clearly aren't public.

I know two things for sure about this world...french fries are a gift from the gods and BHA is a pure Marxist organization that seeks to undermine individual rights of all types.

If BHA actually protected sportsmen's rights they would have filed a lawsuit years ago to fight this with their ample war chest. . They've never done anything for sportsmen and their leadership is on record multiple times demanding that firearms be banned and confiscated. Trapping was just banned in NM, lion and bear hunting banned in California, bear hunting with dogs dogs banned in Colorado and Washington, illegal wolf introduction. BHA did not contribute any resources to combat these attacks. BHA just endorsed an anti hunting, anti gun self admitted eco terrorirsit to run BLM.


Cant believe people are dumb enough to buy into their sportsmen's schtick.

Public lands should never be locked from the public! Having public lands that are ringed by contiguous private property thereby excluding the public from accessing their land and turning it into a de facto private oasis for the private land owners is absolutely wrong! If the public can not reasonably access it then it should be a criminal offense for ANYONE to access it! Ain’t nobody ever gonna change my mind regarding this issue. It’s just plain wrong!

Now these greedy land owners think they own the airspace too? 😂

Having exclusive use is the same as ownership. Ownership cones with a tax bill everywhere else. Open up or pay tax.

If the BLM really gave a darn they would be doing land swaps or condemning 6’ wide easements into any public parcel greater than 500 acres that was landlocked. I’m fine with no vehicle walk in access only but no access is idiotic.

I agree on the public land issue but I'm never getting in bed with these BHA LIBERAL PUKES!!

Concur wholeheartedly.

What altitude must one be at for corner hopping to become legal there?

Absolutely hit the nail on the head. I'm continually amazed that so many hunters support BHA, despite the fact that BHA is a left wing, anti gun, anti rural America, organization.

Is that the BrentD [bleep] that used to post here?

Yes, this BrentD

The very same worthless liberal “look at me I have a gun, so I am a fellow gun owner so just because I own a gun I can be a friend although I support everything that is anti gun” piece of $hit.

+1

I have been saying this same thing for years. Landowners don't like it though.

As a resident of Wyoming , I can tell you that the trespass issue has far greater depth to it. There is lots of land inaccessible for many reasons. State land trust land is a big one because of private concerns. Mark Gordon ( Governor) owns a ranch that has a huge amount of inaccessible State land behind it. He and his neighbors are not going to willing open the door to it. Ranch owners here are not the least concerned with hunter access, they are concerned with what they view as theirs, for free. Corner jumping and such are just ways to limit access , until a case comes to court and a ruling is won in favor of the hunter, this will continue. The game and Fish and local law enforcement just go along with it because they always have. I used to be a Surveyor, and I can tell you from experience that the borders between public owned and private land are ALWAYS shady at best. The fences are run for benefit of the private and never the public. I have run property line surveys around land and if it did not agree with the private, all marking would vanish over night. Its frustrating to mark a section of land and have your boss question what they heck you did all day.......

I presume it's not lawful to molest or destroy survey monuments in WYO.

Need to flood the area with charter helicopter operations

Someone help me understand the issue here. What exactly is “corner crossing?” I’m picturing 4 parcels in a checkerboard with two diagonal corners being public and 2 being private, and the private guys trying to prevent movement between the public areas. Is that correct?

That is exactly it. The private guys usually try to say that in order to cross the corner you crossed their property as well. In many cases there are significant acres of public land that the private property owner uses at free will but tries to keep public people from accessing it.

Exactly

I think all the western states have the same problem. This map is where we saw a bunch of elk a couple days ago. It's not a corner but they sure have you locked out of public land. The blue is state land, the white is private and posted on every fence post. Needless to say, the landowner also 'owns' the state land for all practical purposes. All we could do is sit at the gate and glass them. I don't know if it's true but I've heard that this landowner will let you hunt it for $1000.

I'm not donating a penny but he fact that they can landlock public is bs.

Laws are only useful if they are enforced. I have seen a mile of Lathe, ribbon, paint and corner stakes with caps disappear between 4pm and 7 am the next morning , as If I was never there. The law enforcement in that area could not understand why there was a problem.

The one area that people do not realize about the limited access is that if the ranchers are protecting it as their own then the individual Government agencies feel they do not have to bother. The get free stewardship of our land and don't have to lift a finger. They collect their use fees and mineral rights were applicable and spend the rest of their day shuffling papers and looking busy.

Seems to be a couple of misconceptions rumbling thru here.
1. The ranches that have the bam, forest service, or school trust lands within the boundary of their private lands, do not get it for free. They pay leases to the controlling agencies, and maintain the land at their own expense. It ain't free.
2 . Many of these "landlocked" parcels and the trouble getting access to them stems more from either large money operations owning the "ranch" for their own little private hunting/fishing retreats, and often times the big kerfuffle on trespass stems from an outfitter that has leased the hunting rights on the private land.

Probably not many folks with enough gray hair around here to remember back when the Safari Club used to lease ranches, and post everything, and block roads...

Can you access it via a waterway, e.g., wade down a creek?

I’m well aware that ranches pay for the leases of OUR public lands and while I agree that they do maintain that land they also use it to hopefully make a profit every year. This I have no problem with. When they treat it like it’s “their” land and don’t want any of the public to use it that’s what gets me.
Also regarding the “landlocked” parcels I understand how many of these came to be and don’t have really have a problem with it. If a parcel of public touches another parcel of public at a designated corner I don’t understand why public access is an issue.

The easiest way to solve the issue, would be in instances where the "public" land is unfenced from the private land, would be to set 4 posts on each corner providing a 4ft or smaller access across the corner from the "public" to the "public", and then increase the trespass fine to something on the order of 2000$, that way it might ensure that the "public" doesn't "inadvertently wander off onto the private land. But then again somebody is going to have to pay for the posts at the current price of about 7$ a pop, not counting the labor expense to get the survey right and the posts and signage installed.
I do find it interesting that the story goes a Game Warden watched the whole thing, and didn't issue a trespass citation, they can and do do that. Seems to me if he/she saw no trespassing going on it would be a simple matter to have him testify in court, the case would be dismissed and no need for a go fund me page. Supposedly the same 4 "hunters" got in the same pickle with the same "landowner" the year before. I'm thinking there's probably a bit more to this than what is cruising around on the internet, and it will be interesting to see what does come about, when it gets to court..
It's a damn shame that the money involved in "hunting" in these modern times is pitting "sportsmen" against landowners. I wonder when TR used the antiquities laws to bust the part of the constitution clearly defining what land the federal government can own, even had a clue as to the nasty mess that would follow 100 and some years down the road.

Snivel and whine all you want. There is a bonded and legal agreement to the possession of the right to lease public land for agricultural use. Too bad you don't like it, but that is just the way it is. Stay off or go buy or lease your own damn land and then you can let everyone on for a big picnic.

Surface Leasing


B. Procedure for Leasing the Surface of Trust Lands


viii. Additional considerations
(i.) Posting against trespassers
“Any leaseholder of sixteenth section land, or land granted in lieu thereof, shall be authorized to
post such land against trespassers; provided that such posting shall not prohibit the inspection of
said lands by individuals responsible for the management or supervision thereof acting in their
official capacity.” Miss. Code Ann. Section 29-3-54.

In Wyoming, if the state land is publicly accessible you can not prohibit or inhibit access to that parcel. You also are forbidden from leasing it as part of a hunting lease, and prohibited from allowing forbearing trapping on it. It is possible in some scenarios to get the access controlled by making a very compelling case to the state land board.
BLM land you will loose the BLM lease if you prohibit access to the blm ground if it is publicly accessible, ie from a public road. It's also possible in addition to loosing the lease to face a civil fine.
Parcels of State or Federal land that do not have public access you are under no requirements to allow free access to it, as neither the State nor the Federal's have an easement to it other than administrative purpose, by the state or federal employee's.
Lots of problems with irrational land owners and irresponsible "concerned sportsmen" have got all of us into a just nasty damn mess, every fall it seems.

Just a reminder: this is about corner crossing, not accessible public lands.

Is there a law against corner jumping in Wyoming? If yes, they will be found guilty. The time to challenge a law is when it is proposed, published in the State Register and comments are requested. Once the law is enacted, you will have a tough time time changing it. I'm all for accessing public land, there's a lot of money keeping the public out.

Parts one and two both true. I have enough grey hair to remember when ranchers welcomed antelope hunters. Used to be a coupon on the license that allowed the rancher a small payback for letting hunters come on the land with the intent of thinning the population. The landowners I met would go over the locations, give helpful advice, allow camping, etc.This was before hunting became an Industry.

Many of these ranches are no longer family owned. They've been bought out by big money, people like Bill Gates and the Koch brothers, 2 of the biggest landowners in the US. Their decisions are made from an office in a big city high rise, not by the guy in the cowboy hat out feeding cattle. They aren't the people who you want making the decisions affecting your outdoor recreation.

The Koch Brothers allow access on most of their nearly 300,000 acre Montana ranch.

The Game Warden can only write a civil trespassing ticket. This was a criminal trespassing ticket thus the Sheriff being called.
Also the hunters have taken a few elk from this public land so I’m sure that has got something to do with it.

No sniveling or whining from me. I’ll continue to hunt Wyoming as often as I can draw and legally access all the public lands I can.

The way I see donating to BHA go fundme on this issue is YOUR MAKING A PACT WITH THE DEVIL!!

Sorry but you are just flat wrong on the trespass thing. The trespass ticket issued by the Game Warden carries the same affect as the one from a county sheriff's deputy.
Now I am wondering if this incident is the reason a large HMA in the Shirley Basin is now marked as closed on the HMA maps.

Land swaps often get way above the local BLM office level. IIRC most would require congressional approval. That makes "common sense" land swaps very messy...

It takes approximately 6 years to get even the simplest and common sense land swaps thru the process, IF some "concerned" group doesn't file a lawsuit in a friendly court 1000's of miles away from the proposed swap.

The charge is civil trespass not criminal and yes a GW can write for criminal trespass if you trespass to hunt.

Money not used in the court case will be donated to Access yes in Wyoming.\

There is no law on the books in Wyoming about corner crossing and our legislature does not want to address it it seems. This case may change that though.

I may be wrong but I was under the impression that a WY game warden can cite you for trespassing with the intent to hunt. That is a $450 fine.
These hunters were not cited under title 23 or by the game warden who watched them cross. They were charged by the DA for criminal trespassing which isn’t even a hunting violation.

https://www.wyoleg.gov/InterimCommittee/2019/01-2019060313-04Trespass-CornerCrossing.pdf

Trespass on on posted land is a 250$ fine, posted is up to 750$. During hunting season trespass calls are generally handled by the game warden if available, and sheriff's deputy's if not. Sometimes they both arrive on scene at or about the same time.
Game Wardens were given state police powers several years ago by the legislature.

good input. thanks

ribka, I just wish that sportsmen and landowners could find common ground, and that the trouble makers on both sides could go find some other rock to crawl under. Being able to use "public" lands for recreational purpose is important, but can not trump private property rights.

I'm from the East and don't really understand all this, but is crossing a corner interfering with any landowner?

Well yes and no. The problem comes in the large tracts of checker board land where there may or may not be survey marks, and due to the lower quality of grazing lands large tracts sometimes as large as a town ship are unfenced. The biggest problem comes from usually because each section isn't fenced, the water and best wildlife habitat is on the private land, and not every one carries a GPS to know that fat deer they just shot was several hundred yards on to the private lands. Or the trail roads they're on actually meander back and forth from the public to private.
It's a mess, and conflicts can and do arise. Sometimes inadvertently and sometimes on wilful purpose.

Thank you for the info.

Just curious. What’s your take on this case and are you familiar with the elk mountain area?

Against my better judgement...I'll clarify a bunch of the pure BS that is being posted on this thread in regard to the corner crossing issues.

1. The 4 guys that corner crossed used a ladder to cross the corner this year. They crossed the corner last year as well, informed both the GF warden and County Sheriff of their intentions they never received a citation last year. They again informed the warden and sheriff this year of their intent to cross again, which they did. The reason for the ladder is that the EM Ranch put a chain between the t-posts at they corner, which was done to prevent public access at the corner. Further, its an illegal posting of public land as the land behind that sign is public, no debate about that.

2. They were harassed by the Elk Mountain Ranch staff/employees while hunting including being followed while hunting (Elk Mountain guys driving cross country on BLM and State ground). They were also stopped on the county road multiple times by Elk Mountain employees.

3. They did kill elk and deer and were told they could not pack the last half of one elk off that public ground where they crossed the corner. The warden retrieved the last half for them.

4. The EM ranch called the County Attorney 15 times the day the deputy sheriff issued the citations for criminal trespass.

They were not given a ticket under title 23 as there was NO INTENT to hunt private via stepping from one piece of public land to another piece of public land. That is consistent with the GF Department policy of being instructed to NOT cite hunters for corner crossing. The AG under Governor Freudenthal, Patrick Crank wrote a legal opinion regarding title 23 specific to corner crossing (that corner crossing was NOT a Game and Fish violation of title 23). Further, a memo was sent out by then GF Director Terry Cleveland stating that corner crossing would not be enforced by the GF under title 23 statute.

So, that leaves the corner crossing issue to the Sheriff's office and County Attorneys IF, and that's a big if they want to enforce it under title 6 criminal trespass or title 10 civil trespass. Civil trespass is not going to be written as the landowner has to prove "damages" to his property via the trespass. Since stepping from one piece of public to another piece of public, in NO WAY damages the adjoining landowner the result of a court case would be a claim of ZERO in punitive damage. Only real option is to cite for title 6 trespass. There has been NO cases of anyone corner crossing in Wyoming ever being cited for corner crossing (guys like to argue that there has been, but in the exhaustive searches myself and many others, including attorneys have done, its simply not true). All the cases we've looked at definitely involved trespass, not corner crossing (hunters short cutting the corners, etc.) I'm in full support of citations for trespassing, both title 23 and 6, property rights are important to me and most everyone I know.

But, that's not to be confused with simply placing your foot from one piece of public to another piece of public land...that does not constitute trespass as defined in title 6 statute. There is NO mention of air space, only that a person remains on "land or residence" so the age old argument of landowners owning air space, in reference to title 6 appears to be, best case, on shaky ground.

Since there is no clear and specific law on corner crossing being a violation of either statute (6 or 10) a group of sportsmen along with WYBHA made the decision to support the hunters who crossed the corner. All 4 have retained council and all 4 attorneys seem confident in a favorable outcome defending their clients.

Public access and our right to legally access that public land is no less of a property right, than those of any private landowner and why this needs to be fought in court.

Another part of the strategy we used, to show that there is nothing but good will toward landowner/sportsmen relationships, any money left over from the gofundme account will be used to fund our GF Department AccessYes program. A program that WYBHA has financially supported every year since becoming a chapter, to the tune of thousands per year. A program that has improved and maintained landowner/sportsmen relationships for a couple decades. No question that cooperation and collaboration is the best avenue to increase access to private lands and landlocked public. However, Sportsmen in Wyoming will not be bullied by landowners that show no regard for our ability to access our public lands either. I'm aware of 3 active cases of landowners harassing hunters in Wyoming this fall, all of whom did nothing wrong and legally accessed public lands. That needs to stop, and I'll do everything I can to see that it does.

We will also provide a detailed accounting of all expenditures from the gofundme account as this is sportsmen that are funding the defense of the 4 hunters. There will be no money going to WYBHA, our entire board is volunteer and nobody is compensated on our board.

Flame away....

Thanks for posting the info Buzz.

805 MY take on the case prior to Buz'z post was need more info. Yes I am somewhat familiar with the Elk Mountain area and most of the rest of that checker board corridor from Laramie Peak to the Utah border.
Now that Buzz has presented a pretty good explanation is, what the Elk Mountain ranch did is a blatant violation of the law, and as such should loose their blm, state and forest leases. I'm betting that the Elk Mountain ranch isn't really owned by a ranching interest, and that chances are pretty good the employees harassing the hunters are part of an outfitting organization that should loose their outfitters license.
What they have done here is set landowner/sportsman groups on fire and on the fight and it need not of ever happened.
The Elk mountain/Hanna area has been a hot bed of trouble for decades, starting way back when the safari club leased it and posted all the private and public land.
Bad deal all the way around.

The Black Hills in NE wyoming is another place that has been a problem for quite some time, and I'm really surprised that the fabled 3 Forks in the Little Snake valley hasn't erupted more than it has.
As a side note I had an interesting conversation with a camo clad young fella looked to be straight out of the Outdoor channel driving a pickup with some outfitters logo on the door about whether a person could be turned in for trespassing for simply stopping on the side of a county road and looking at the map while others the vehicle were glassing the country side.... He left in a huff, and for some reason or other I didn't ever get a text or phone call from the local law enforcement that was supposedly going to be notified....

Any idea how much cash will be donated to the state chapter's efforts by the mothership in Bozeman?

Sounds like a legit case that might have implications and set precedence across the entire state.

I just glanced at the mothership's social media, so I could be wrong but I didn't see any press release or call to action to help the cause. I did see some black Friday sales..


Not flaming or being derogatory, just curious as it sounds like a legitimate case.

Are there any laws against the landowners harassing people on public land. If so, I hope they ae enforced

+1 I’m curious as this case goes on if there might even be some tickets handed out to others involved in this. I also think EM should be held accountable for their actions.

Pending...and I reached out to the Chief Game Warden regarding to make sure he's aware of the 3 cases I'm familiar with. Seems to be foot-dragging when its a hunter harassment case, and an instant ticket when a hunter is suspected of trespassing.

I heard through the grape-vine one ranch manager (not elk mountain case) was issued 1 citation for wildlife harassment and 5 citations for hunter harassment. The other 2 I haven't heard back.

Wyoming Chapter is largely flying solo on this one with lots of others paying close attention but not putting their toes in the water.

So far, extremely proud and happy to see many individual Sportsmen stepping up. I think that's the way this needs to happen, sends a more broad and meaningful message when several hundred individuals stand up for their public lands.

So is Wyoming BHA comely independent ot the mother chapter or just this specific corner crossing case.
None of the fund raising you do goes to the mother chapter.

The whole problem of corner crossing and access to public lands in general are completely tied together. Around here , the whole issue is in need of clarification and the rules need to be followed as far as access goes. Its not just corner crossing , but the whole thing is needed to be looked at. The corner crossing case that is now going can have wide spread effects.

money sent ,,,,, the lack of hunter harassment charges against landowners, employees, ect needs to be held in a higher regard by LE,

is it necessary to have lawsuits against LE for not doing there job in those cases? i have been personally told no way, by a local game warden in montana he would not cite a person for the harassment charge, and i had witnesses and video,,,,

Depends on the fund raising.

For this case, BHA both the WY Chapter and National are receiving nothing for the corner crossing case. Like I said, 100% of the funds are going to defend the 4 hunters any balance remaining will go to the WYGF Department via an AccessYes donation.

We also received a GF Commission license from Commissioner Gay Lynn Byrd last year, we raised $47K with that tag through a raffle, which IIRC, was the most money ever raised via a single commission tag. We used 100% of that money for a perpetual easement to public lands on the Southwest side of Raymond Mountain in Lincoln County Wyoming, specifically into Groo Canyon. I have worked on Raymond Mountain for my day job, and access was a nightmare...that easement was crucial for public access to the Raymond Mountain WSA. Investing in perpetual easements for public land access is definitely a high priority for the Wyoming Chapter.

Of course the AccesYes program has always been another high priority of WY Chapter funds, even though the walk in and HMA participants come and go from the program, and its not perpetual, it opens up a ton of private land access to hunting and fishing for Sportsmen, (about 4 acres per dollar spent) and provides compensation to the private landowner participants. Great program and my wife and I are in the top few individual donors to AccessYes.

For other events, we have an MOU with national on splits for fund raising and membership dues are split with national as well.

There are very well-established ways that the government could solve this problem (many mentioned here, such as condemnation), but what BHA is doing is typical misleading bullcrap.

When you own land, you also own air rights (not to the heavens, of course, but a good amount of airspace above the land). That is the real issue here.

Imagine it this way...let's say that this is a typical checkerboard tract where you have one parcel, private, that comes to a point with another private parcel (further assume that each private parcel is owned by the same entity) and on either side of that point are two parcels of public land. Assuming that there aren't local zoning issues that would prohibit this, the private landowner has the right to put it tall walls around the perimeter of his two parcels. He wouldn't be allowed to have the walls on the public land, but the only place that would be implicated is that invisible point where his two parcels touch and the public land flanks.

Let's say he built 60 foot high walls around his land (yes, this is very unlikely, but I am using this right to point out the issues). If a person standing on the public land next to the point where the private parcels, and the walls on them, meet the public land, he'd have to trespass, however slightly, on the private walls to get into the public land. It may be minor, but it's still trespassing.

This is the nature of land rights. BHA simply doesn't like private ownership of land and is doing everything it can to use lawfare to beat private landowners into submission (or run up their legal bills so high that they have to give in).

I've been frustrated by prohibitions on corner crossing in western states, but the answer isn't to engage in lawfare. It's to get the government to either condemn enough land to allow for safe passage between public parcels, buy easements, enact new laws, etc. BHA, and its represenative posting here, are lying about their true interests in the case.

Depends on the fund raising, so that tells me yes Land Tawny gets money, enough for me. BHA has had years to try and solve this why now not that I'm against public land access at all.
Untill theres a wholesale change to the leadership and who they support and issues like management of wolves and GB I will not contribute a penny.

Case in point, if BHA is all about sportsmen what about the issue in Colorado dumping wolves there, far as i know they have been totally silent. If there truly for sportsmen they would publicly come out against it but that would go against there big money liberal base.
Any body who has seen what this so called wolf reintroduction has done knows what Colorado is in for.
You can't just pick and choose your either part of the problem or solution.

I dont think there is a legal cross at the corner. The long understanded defination of property lines is that they extend upward into the air, later revised to be limited to the height of the lowest flights in the area. If the corner is the intersection of two lines , meaning it is infintesimally small, and the property lines go up into the air, there is not a way to cross at a corner where you do not break the property line. I think all public land should have access, and I think corner crossing should be legal, the landowner is not being harmed in the slightest, but by those definitions and understandings, and no law in place to make corner crossing legal, it seems that they will be fighting an uphill battle.

The surface lessee pays to lease the space, anyone can access the land if they have permission from any one of the adjacent landowners.

I am not sure how anyone would venture out hunting in these parts with out a GPS on the prairie. counting cattle guards and watching fences that ain't even close is a great way to trespass even if you ain't.

Some folks grew up reading maps and compasses, some have electronics but don't turn them on.
It happens..

The air space seems to be another area that isn’t really defined by law either regarding this matter. What makes no sense either is that in WY you can legally float the river and cross through private as long as you aren’t touching the bottom or the bank. That seems to make much more sense seeing as you aren’t in physical contact with the private property.

In the end I still think the public should be allowed to cross at these type of corners especially if they are not damaging the private property or causing any harm to it. If a person trespasses on private property not at a corner they do deserve to be cited though.

Idaho has a statewide recreational easement on navigable waters. You can legally be anywhere within the normal high water lines. During low water, and during most waterfowl seasons, that gives you quite a bit of dry land to play on. The question is what all is navigable. North of us is a large creek that's a very popular flyfishing stream. Years ago a couple landowners fenced it all off. At the time it had never been designated as navigable or not. A guy I knew and some of his friends floated it in a canoe to prove it's navigable. They won in court and the gates were opened. The general rule is that if you can float a belly boat in it, it's navigable.

Corner crossing is illegal if you don't have permission to be on private land. Don't like it, buy the land you want to cross or negotiate a trespass fee.

The low altitude airspace being part of the property is just the way it works.

Then it should be no problem for you to point out the specific statute and language in statute saying corner crossing is illegal.

Good luck with that.

please come down the city sidewalk, step across my lawn to the other sidewalk i know were tge pin is,,, there is no difference, people do it daily, it is not hurting me

It's Wyoming 6-3-303. It's impossible to cross the corner without illegally entering the property of one (or both) of the other corners. If proper notice has been given (and the picture of the signs shows that it has been), it's trespassing which is why he was arrested and charged and will be convicted if he doesn't plea out.

I didn' hurt nuffin. The whine of every criminal ever.

Oh, and ownership of the space above your land in Wyoming is Wyoming Statute 10-4-302. The legislature made it 100% clear who owns that airspace (it's whoever owns the ground), and as soon as you enter it and it's posted, that's trespassing.

That's civil trespass and for that to be the case, the landowner has to prove damage to their property.

What "damage" would be assessed for momentarily passing through "air space" while stepping from one piece of public land to another? Answer? ZERO.

Same as me waving my hand over your lawn...and every attorney I've talked to says the same thing, there is no damage for a civil suit to apply.

I'm also curious why its not considered trespassing via air space violation to float every water way in Wyoming when the land under the rivers is owned by the private land owners? Does the water end their right to the air above it?

There's no clear statute and why I believe this case never sees a courtroom...and even if it does, common sense tells me there is no criminal or civil trespass case that's going to hold up for stepping from one piece of public to another.

Read the statute, no mention of airspace in title 6-3-303...point out where air space is mentioned or implied.

Its not there....I'll save you the suspense.

Typical BHA ignorance (or just plain stupidity)....like Llama_Bob pointed out, the WY code states that land ownership includes the air rights. When 6-3-303 refers to land, and doesn't provide a specific definition of that term, the term is defined by reference to where the ownership rights pertaining to land are defined elsewhere, which is 10-4-302.

You'd think that the guy who is inciting violations of law and proudly stating that he's going to win the case would know the basics of what the case entails.

I'll enjoy watching BHA get shot down and may even start poking around the docket to see if there's an opportunity for an amicus filing to support the EM ranch. Not that I like being blocked from hunting, but it's their land and their right to prohibit trespassing.

As for this bozo's claim that there is no civil action for trespass without damages, that's idiotic. First, damages can be as low as $1, (and I'd argue that the landowner's damages are more than that, at least the cost of having to set up security to prevent trespassing in the future) and the landowner can get an injunction against the trespassers and those who were complicit, and a jury can award punitive damages if it thinks that some scumbags are engaging in unlawful acts that need to be punished even if there is no substantial monetary loss. Were I counsel to the ranch, I'd file for an injunction against BHA for being the deep pocketed instigation behind the trespassers.

Lord, I loathe BHA Marxists. They're as stupid as they are arrogant.

Four solid WY attorneys are going to argue the case...go watch another Matlock rerun...

Its not EM's right to prohibit access to public land, which they very much are attempting to do.

Also EM ranch did not attempt to take civil action...wonder why that is? Because they probably have attorneys that know its a waste of money and time to go that route for an air space violation...just a guess. A billionaire letting a couple lowly tax payer funded public servants fight their case for them pro bono...how noble.

So what prevents ranchers or land owners to put up tall elaborate fences at these corners to stop people crossing over?

Buzz, your comments are so full of hyperbole, you have only convinced yourself. You are BHA’s poster child, you want to beat the drum for an environmental terrorist organization and still fit in with the hunting crowd. Although you are not alone, you are not right.

Stay in Wyoming and fight the good fight with your other confused buddies in the asylum.

If your donating to the corner crossing go fund me that BHA has set up all im asking people to do is realize your getting into bed with a liberal, pro- wolf, anti- trapping group no matter how you slice and dice it.
Do your own research to who donates big money and who they support and what they support dont just let this corner crossing thing sway you. Peel a few layers back and really take a look.
Footloose is at it again in Montana im seeing there commercials on T.V
Member Dave Skinner wrote a very good article in the Flathead Beacon on who they get money from its a very interesting read, Google it will probably open your eyes to who BHA really is.

I bet it's hard to pole vault with a hunting pack on?

Nothing really , except for the money it would cost to build the fences. Several years ago something like that happened south west of Rawlins. A ranch did go into their deeded land in the checker board and built fences. The lawsuits and furry that followed for years afterwards are somewhat mind boggling. The Wy legislature has been wrestling back and forth with this corner crossing stuff for a couple of decades now.
This thing with the BHA and Elk Mountain ranch may ignite a firestorm, bigger than the BHA realizes, and it may not go quite as well as they hope. Which I'm thinking it may not be the slam dunk they think it's going to be otherwise there wouldn't be the need for the go fund me thing. I mean after all we saw posted above here that the people being charged have retained solid Wyoming Attorneys who will be taking on the lowly public lawyers in the Carbon County DA's office....
At some point people that believe in private property rights are going to say enough is enough, and there's already a ground swell building out there that the socialist/communist among us aren't seeing.

I don't know the Carbon County folks, but I do a lot of work with state Attorneys General as well as local prosecutors and you'd be surprised at how good they can be. A few months back I was prepping the Arkansas AG for a big case at the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals and we had two former US solicitor generals (the guys who argue cases on behalf of the US before the Supreme Court) to rattle the AG in a moot court type of exercise. This one AG took on the barrage from some really experienced government attorneys and prevailed, and then went on to demolish the other side at the hearing. I have no idea who the four WY attorneys the BHA shill referred to, but I'd not underestimate what the Carbon County DA can do.

As an example of how wrong the BHA idiot is, consider this. Here's what the BHA mouthpiece claimed: "Civil trespass is not going to be written as the landowner has to prove "damages" to his property via the trespass. Since stepping from one piece of public to another piece of public, in NO WAY damages the adjoining landowner the result of a court case would be a claim of ZERO in punitive damage. "

The fact is that courts allow punitive damages in cases like this even if the only other damages that can be shown are nominal damages. For example, this excerpt from a case that discusses both the caselaw and the Restatement of Torts (the guiding principles for cases like this):


A Wyoming court is going to follow the same rationale.

I generally focus my fights against another scumbag organization that lies about what they are really up to (the ACLU), but I may have to drop a note to the Carbon County DA to see if they'd like any help fighting the ugly and stupid sister of the ACLU, BHA.

The Legislature should pass a bill requiring an easement access to ALL public land and enforce it.

If you want to buy land blocking a piece of public land, fine just realize their will be an easement down one side or the other.

Get um Remsen

Wow, you'll be fighting sportsmen and women in Wyoming, not the BHA.

Remsen you have my blessings.
I had to chuckle at the comment about the EM ranch not providing lawyers... BHA best be careful what they wish for because there is nothing that prohibits them from lawsuits of various sorts, win loose or draw on this trespass thing.
This could get to be very interesting because there are a slew of very good attorneys from Wyoming that are pretty damn sharp on private property rights, and other civil matters..

Wow so you're willing to foot the bill for the fight that will go on just to have public access to a 40 acre parcel of ground that's not much more than a pile of boulders and a few scrub juniper trees?
interesting..

Nope, it's BHA doing this. The sportsmen and women of Wyoming probably have the same opinion of BHA starting sh*t as I do. You know that line about drawing first blood....it applies to law as well.

BHA doesn't respect or even support private property rights. Like many have said, there are a number of very legitimate ways to deal with this problem, and the WY legislature is the right place to go. Shakedown groups like BHA want to eliminate private property rights and have a demonstrated history of fighting against the interests of actual sportspeople.

I believe very strongly in private property rights. I also believe in public lands being public and support corner crossing.

Let me guess you have some of that prime land blocked up?

That is a welfare entitlement position.

So are you willing to get into bed with BHA over it?

Nope, the EM folk called the county attorney 15 times in a day to whine about 4 hunters crossing from one piece of public to another piece of public after they illegally posted public land and harassed the 4 hunters.

It won't be you deciding who's right and who's wrong...if, and that's a big if, it goes to court we'll find out.

Nothing for sportsmen to lose...plenty for that particular landowner to lose.

Risk vs. reward....some savvy it, some don't.

Nope

I do have a small piece of blm that is way up in the corner of a 700 acre parcel, that is surrounded by other deeded lands. The BlM for all practical purposes really isn't accessible from any direction, but to even get to it would take an easement across over a mile of private land. To follow the section lines to get to it from any direction would take a gawd awful lot of road building. That would require an EIS study, then there's the takings of private property that would need to be dealt with. Not to mention all the archeological study that would need be done and disturbed.. The fence to seperate the easement... And you think all that would be worth it just so you might see a deer or elk on it, that if one happened to be bedded on it would be long gone before you could even get with shooting distance of it?
Yeh best to think some of these things thru first...

The west is bi-polar, half the argument is over fences and access and half the arguments are over free range grazing.

My stance exactly, you gotta pick between the lesser of 2 evils and in my opinion BHA is the Devil in sheep's clothing.Lands nice cushy 135,000- 145,000 salary and # 2 guys 100,000 + salary should tell people something.
Even Lands parent were heavily involved in " non- profit ' big money liberal organizations. Ed Bangs who was instrumental in the wolf reintroduction donated 20,000 to BHA it goes on and on.

I believe firmly the corner crossing issue can be resolved, but it's not going to be easy.

I agree completely.

But I still think access should be guaranteed or they do a land swap with the state (if state land). I understand if federal it would be more complicated but it still ought to be. That or offered one time opportunity to buy it at market value cash only.

One might make a pretty good argument that the stance some are taking on public land access is more of a welfare entitlement attitude..

I dont know the answer but BHA isn't it.

One could, and it is often made. I disagree though (obviously lol). Public is public land. It’s said “you want land to hunt buy it”. The converse is no less applicable. “You want to treat that land as your own then buy it”

Well maybe you could help me figure out one of the things that's always somewhat puzzled me? What is it about being a landowner that disqualifies the landowner from having the same claim to "public" lands as the average urbanite? And what is it about the average urbanite that gives them more claim to the "public" land than the landowner that dutifully pays the rental fee to the appropriate govt agency?

Interesting verbiage, and a misrepresentation. If you think paying a fee to run your cows on it entitles you to exclusive access, then I really don’t think it’s worth my time lol.

No don't think it gives exclusive access. Just reading some of the comments here it would appear that being a landowner somehow relegates you to second class citizenship.

I'm not advocating building roads to every stray piece of public land but if a fellow wants to walk across the boundary edge your land or cut a corner he should be allowed. That way it is accessible.

While this is a difficult issue, the public should also be concerned about the huge blocks of public land that are locked up by private lands.. If you are interested, look northeast of Buffalo, Wyoming. There are thousands of acres of public land in one block locked up by private ranches. Several public access roads should be opened for folks to use this land.. But it is safely locked away from the public by Wyoming law.. West of Saratoga, we have the Overland ranch. Every other section is public land, but it is all off limits to anyone but the Overland people.. They used to have a phone # that said call for access!! Trouble was no one answered the phone..

Well you have to see the lay of the land to understand I suppose.
It's a bit over a mile walk that gains a bit over 200 ft elevation from start to finish, not counting going over and down a couple of ridges. That mile of private land has more and better wildlife habitat than the BLM it's self. The edge of the BLM boundry is a little over 100 ft elevation above the deeded land. The BLM it's self has a 200+ ft elevation rise in less than an 1/8 of a mile.
You can try everything you can possibly think of to get to that BLM without being seen by anything that's bedded up there, but the odds are really against you.
In the 30 years of owning this particular pasture I only know of 1 deer and 1 antelope and 1 turkey, within 200 yards of the BLM it's self. There was a bowhunter and his wife from Kansas spent 2 weeks trying to get a deer or antelope on that, the closest shot he had was about 80 yards on my deeded lands. They had their camper parked in our yard and hooked up to my electricity. The last day of archery season he was packing up to head back to Kansas, I said why don't you take one of my rifles out tomorrow morning and at least fill one of your tags, but he declined saying he didn't shoot anything with rifle any more. I got a Christmas card from them that year, but haven't heard anything from them since.
So when you talk about allowing unfettered access to parcels like that, and knowing that most of the game will be seen on the way to that parcel, just how many of those folks are going to pass the shot , knowing they're only 1/2 way to the "public" land..
There are a whole slew of small BLM parcels just like this, in my county alone there is about 20K acres of blm with the largest piece being something around 280 acres.

We have strayed from corner crossing to landlocked I'm afraid.


That was very kind of you to help the fellow out that way.

Well just keep in mind there are more ranchers like me, than there are Elk Mountain Ranch types, just as there are way more good hunters than miserable pieces of crap, but unfortunately the good ones on both sides way to often get over shadowed by the actions of the jack asses.
swinging a broad brush is seldom productive.

440 U.S. 668 (1979)

End of story.

What a tool the Leo sheep company case involved crossing a corner with vehicles...nothing at all to do with stepping from Public to public...

Keep trying matlock

If you think the Leo Sheep case was limited to vehicles, you need to find some better shill lawyers to feed you your talking points.

The BHA lawyers know it's about 99% likely they will lose, since the legislature has clearly defined that the airspace above property is owned by the same entity that owns the property. It's impossible to pass through the corner without passing through the airspace. Anyone with an understanding of basic geometry can see this. This argument has already been laid out eloquently by the state AG.

There's really very little downside to losing a case for your client as long as you get paid and don't expect it to impact future work. A gofundme is a good way to ensure you'll get paid.

Alternately, the state should not buy parcels to which it has no access, or sell the access to parcels it already has, and the problem goes away.

And instead of selling the "sweet" valleys and keeping the high ground that people don't want, just sell tracts that include both and the issue goes away. Take the bad with the good.

I hear that the GoFundMe campaign has been reported for fraud, as the campaign alleges this is a legal gray area when, in fact, it's black and white. GoFundMe has a reputation for not being very good about shutting down fraud, but the more people who report the campaign, the more likely it will be that GoFundMe does the right thing.

You're 100% right that this is a very clear case of trespassing. The WY code is very clear (notwithstanding the BHA idiots claiming it's not) about the question and the Supreme Court has clearly held that there is no easement to be had (by necessity, reservation or otherwise) if the plan is to argue that the WY code somehow in conflict with the land grant scheme that created the checkerboards in that an easement was reserved when the land was sold to private parties.

While Ruth Buzzy is not afraid to contradict herself, or ignore black letter law, the only ones who are going to suffer from the Marxist in hunters' clothing are those who donate to their fraud and the private property landowners who have to deal with the illegal conduct that BHA encourages and funds.

There's a legal and legitimate way to deal with access to checkboard land areas, but BHA would rather abuse the legal system and try to lawfare their way around the obvious.

It's not a black and white case. If that was anything close to reality then wardens would still cite for title 23 trespass to hunt. If it were such a clear cit case judge Castor wouldn't have found Kearney innocent of corner crossing. If it was so clear the Wyoming state AG wouldn't have written a legal opinion that it's not a trespassing violation under title 23. Doubtful the gf director would send out a memo to to every warden in the state saying they can't write a citation for it either

If it was so black and white a couple posters here wouldn't be pissing down both legs playing perry mason.

Litigating this type of case is as American as apple pie...it's how we do things.

Alot of us know how you do things Buzz, that's for damn sure

Fraudster Buzz and his BHA minions have been exposed and now all he can do is argue against himself.

Remember, everyone, BHA is a fraud and they steal peoples' money to undermine the rule of law. You can do your part by reporting their fundraiser for fraud: https://www.gofundme.com/contact/suggest/fraud

Change your diaper...

I wondered if these 4 wyoming lawyers are doing this pro bono whats the 30,000 for?

Nothing spells prick better than some of the WY ranchers.

I'm sure there's plenty in S.D too

I wish the individuals involved well and hope they win. I think "intent" should be taken into account, they had no intention to trespass or hunt on private property (hence why G&F didn't cite)

But I can't fathom how BHA HQ doesn't get behind this and cough up some cash, even if a measly amount. They constantly point to their volunteers and state chapter's and all they do. Yet who is raking in the cash? Hint, it's not the volunteers or state chapter's doing the work.

That is the biggest issue most have with bha. The avg. Joe paying a membership fee is called upon to pay up to belong, volunteer their time, and then when a call to action appears is expected to foot the bill. All while the head HQ rakes in the cash and just donates to leftist PACs and campaigns.

It doesn't pass the common sense test.

Yep while Land gets his paltry 140,000 salary, while the avg 2 income household i believe is 78,000 in montana

IMO, ranchers gave zero rights keeping people off public lands. WY is the worst place in the USA for these greedy suckers!

Buzzy disagrees. BHA heroes like buzzy hunt off of public closed forest service roads so its all good lol

Are BHA heroes like Buzzy, Land Tawney, Charles post and Randy Newburg working on more gun control measures to help sportsmen procure and maintain public hunting grounds?

BHA just pimps public lands to make a buck and sportsmen have fewer and fewer hunting opportunities every year.

Not one cent from BHA goobers to actually do what they advertise.

While I understand the legalities.....as a landowner who is quite protective of my property, I cannot see getting twisted up over someone corner crossing. Whether swinging a leg over a fence or using the corner gates with a vehicle, I'm not wrapped tight enough to deny access to land because you need a few square feet of mine to get from one section to another.

They have the same rights as I do. Hunt or sunbath nude. Doesn't matter. When they lease land, what is it for? Are specifics spelled out?

exactly. common sense

If they own the air above the private ground what happens when they use a helicopter to access public ground?

Air rights only extend to certain heights in most jurisdictions, usually to align with the height that aircraft fly. A helicopter that flies at, say, 20 ft above private property is generally trespassing. At 2000 ft, it's probably in authorized flight lanes and thus not trespassing.

In uncontrolled airspace I think aircraft are suppose to stay above 500' from buildings dont know if that applies to land without buildings, I imagine it wouldn't require having to stay higher.
500' required for fixed wing, helicopters there is no requirement as long as its not hazardous.

Covered in title 10 no height requirements.

Thank you.

Come on Buzz read the FAA requirements, its not just no requirements depending on aircraft and if buildings are involved

I've read them well aware of the regs. What do they say about drones...

You left out Busse.

Who cares, is it an aircraft?

Never known the state to win a land swap. Normally the landowner gets nice, primo land and the state gets barren grassland, you can see every animal on it from the road a few miles away, lol.

Right on. I agree.

There used to be a rule that you could not hunt the same day you flew in, or there was a 24 wait from the time you fly in, until you can hunt. The land may not be allowed to be camped on overnight. I think the delay rule has been modified or changed.

I was just curious. I have seen multiple hunting shows do this and if they are willing to film it and show it it must be ok.

Correct, myself and a good friend of mine rewrote the regulation and got it successfully passed by the commission.

No more 24 hour wait.

You sound proud of that, guess you big money guys that can fly everywhere its fine.
Whats good for the Goose is not always good for the Gander right Buzzy

Absolutely proud of it, also made it illegal to use any aircraft or drone to be used to scout any big or trophy game from August through January while we were at it.

Prior to us changing the regulation you couldn't fly into landlocked state land and hunt it due to camping being against regulations.

I stated earlier that the corner crossing case is just the tip of a very large public/private land problem. The government agencies tend to favor the ranchers, the ranchers have obvious financial interests and the rights of taxpayers to access are all a balancing act that is currently completely out of balance.

Come on Tawney, step up and have corporate HQ support access to PUBLIC LAND

Well Rinella stepped up and posted about this on his social media. More than the BHA Bozeman has done.............

Still would like to know what the 30,000 is for if the 4 attorneys are taking this pro- bono.
Come on Buzzy you said transparent, if you wait untill you spend it then its to late.

How do you know the legal work is pro-bono?

Sherm

I think what Buzz was saying was that the Elk mountain owner was using the Public DA instead of hiring his own team since he is a multi millionaire.
The 4 hunters all hired their own attorney’s.

.Dont get me wrong but seems like the DA is suppose to uphold the law for anybody Wether there a multi millionaire or just avg. Joe right so if the law was broke hes just doing his job.
I wouldnt call Land pulling down 145,000 a year as an avg. Joe in montana or wyoming.

Buzzy likes to call out multi- millionaires but there's got to be some in the pocket of BHA for revenue to go up nearly 3 million in one year.

All Bullshit aside, dont listen to me Buzzy or anybody else look up were there big donors money comes from, who they support and what side of the wolf, G - bear and trapping there on.
Walks like a duck quacks like a duck ITS A DUCK!!

You really are a class A, bonafide $hitheel.

Incorrect. They had no intention to hunt. They had every intention to trespass, knowing that they would unavoidably pass through clearly marked private property and doing so anyways.

There are two statutes at play here - plain trespassing and trespassing to hunt. The later is enforced by Game and Fish. The former, by normal law enforcement. This was a violation of the former but not the latter, so G&F stayed out of it.

I'm curious if BHA and the hunters had an agreement if the corner crossed BHA would help.

Actually they had no intention to trespass at all, they used a ladder to get over the corner and not touch the private land. Their intention was to take a bull elk and mule deer on public land.
The rancher's folks may face hunter harassment charges and resource damage charges from BLM and State Land office for driving off road and harassing the hunters.
I find it very interesting because of hate for one person you all are backing this large NR landowner who blocks access to public lands.

Flying in an aircraft operating at a reasonable altitude is a specific exception to trespassing in Wy (and probably every other state's) law. So you're fine from a trespass perspective - just fly in normally and land. You should now also be fine from a hunting regs perspective, but if you have any doubts call Game & Fish.

The private property extends upwards arbitrarily far. The ladder as well as everyone who crossed was in private property.

The ignorance of the law here is not surprising, but is evidence of where education is at these days.

Well I disagree with that assessment. If they intended to trespass they wouldn't have used a ladder. It sounds like they went to great lengths to not trespass.

I don't care for bha, and I'm disappointed but not surprised the corporate HQ remains silent on this case. It's sad really.

But I wish the defendants well and hope this case provides common sense precedence in corner crossing.

No, actually, you're not curious...you're looking for confirmation bias.

Doesn't matter either way to you, its not going to change your mind.

But, the answer is no, there was no agreement and nobody on the phone initial phone calls new any of the 4 hunters. Nobody involved in WY has ever met any of them. This is the second year in a row these guys have hunted this area and crossed the corner last year as well (after informing both the Sheriff and the Game Warden of their plan both years).

What is happening is that this case is starting to gain momentum...we've been contacted by a stable full of attorneys from 2 states who are very much interested in the case, countless individuals, and have meetings set up with some high profile folks with lots of reach.

Win, lose, or draw this is the precise outcome that we all hoped for, taking this issue out of the shadows and getting some progress in starting the conversation to make meaningful change.

As witnessed by this thread, lots of critics but very few with the stones to bring the issue forward...been that way for as long as I've been involved in public land, public access, and hunting related issues.

Buckle up...

Not often I agree with Jackson Handy, but he makes a good point here...

If the hunters loose this case, I hope it gets appealed all the way to the Supreme Court. It would open millions of acres across the west to hunting, fishing access.

You are 100% wrong i do not back this rancher, if you read my previous posts you would have seen i said I dont know the answer but its not BHA.
I dont hate BHA or Buzz, I hate there 2 faced stances and who they support OBAMA, BULLOCK, TESTER, BIDEN, a convicted tree spiker do I need to go on.
They tout for the sportsmen but there views on the Wolf, G- Bear, trapping say otherwise and who they take money from.
Your 100% correct Buzz you won't change my mind about BHA untill everything I just said above changes.
If anything i said above is incorrect Buzzy prove me wrong.

Sorry sir but you are wrong about the hunters and that is what I was referring to.
You're not supporting BHA by helping these hunters and any funds not used for attorneys will be donated to Access Yes in Wyoming which opens up private land for public access.
If you want to cut off your nose top spite your face then go right ahead.

I do not support BHA and am not a member but I do support this cause and it needs to be addressed in court to put it to rest. The money is not going to BHA.

You see it how you want, if BHA didn't have any skin in the game they wouldn't be doing it.
If you dont think BHA isn't gonna be patting themselves on there back saying see what we did and how great they are your a FOOL.
The hunters could have set up the Gofundme themselves sure as Hell didn't need BHA for that or find there own attorneys. Ive donated to gofundme's before.
Like I said in the beginning I would have no problem supporting those hunters but I'm not about to when BHA has there name attached to it, if your good getting into bed with BHA so be it.
This is nothing but P.R for BHA period.

At least corporate bha hq finally spoke up about it.....


I don't disagree it's for p.r. but at least its a potentially huge case concerning the actual thing (public land access) they purport to fight for.

I don't like bha but it doesn't change the facts of the case

I'm not disputing the facts of the case have i sad anything thing different.. BHA is getting involved for one purpose and one purpose only to pat themselves on there backs and tell everybody how great and wonderful they are if they win this case BOOK IT!!

Why all the hostility towards BHA, they made a stand, put up their money and reputation. Something no other group did. We all have issues and never fully agree with all the decisions many of these wildlife groups make but they have done a fair job over the years of helping and contributing. What groups do you support and what has been their response to this case? This may not be the end of corner hopping but if the County either drops the charges or loses this case, then it will likely mean no prosecuting attorney in Wyoming will pick up another case like this. There are over a million acres just in Wyoming which corner hopping will open up or about 1/3 of all landlocked public lands. This case has massive upside and very little downside as most people never corner hop due to what we have been told since 1979 and the Leo Sheep case.

In this specific case?

An entity with as much money as bha is asking everyone else to support this cause instead of leading the way with their check book ( referring t the national office, not the state chapter )

Overall?

This thread isn't the place as it will just derail....

Like I said from the beginning, Google it see for yourself.
I pointed out the politicians they support and thats just a few liberal ones.

You will never agree with every organization or every politician. For the most part from what I have seen they push hard for public access, more so than any other organization I am aware of. Their demographics are young, active and well versed in online social media.

BHA members are politically diverse: 32 percent of respondents identify as Independent, 25 percent as Republican and 16 percent as Democrat (17 percent responded “none of the above” and 10 percent preferred not to answer).
BHA members are young: 34 percent of respondents are between the ages of 25-34; 32 percent are between 35-44. Thirty percent are 45 and older, and 3 percent are younger than 24.
BHA members are active online: 63 percent of respondents prefer to get information about BHA from BHA’s social media channels, BHA’s online newsletter and backcountryhunters.org.
BHA members include large numbers of military servicemembers and veterans: 12 percent of respondents are military veterans, higher than the U.S. average.
BHA members are passionate about public lands: 25 percent of respondents spend 100 percent of their time hunting, fishing and recreating on public lands and waters; 57 percent spend half or more of their time on our shared public estate.

You will never find the perfect group, just as you will never find the perfect politician. If you like what they pursue and like hunting public lands and their causes, it’s best to at a minimum help support this particular case. If you want to lose out on Millions of locked out public lands keep up your tirade. The majority of sportsmen are in agreement on this issue and don’t let small issues impede their judgment.

Majority of sportsman, your in a dream world
, there's 15,000,000 license holders and I think 1/4% of those are BHA members.

Ask Buzzy why hasn't Wyoming BHA got non- resident hunting in wilderness without a guide, its public ground to isn't it?

So sherm hates BHA-got it.

Question for sherm, what have you done to better hunting for current and future hunters?

I get it not everyone likes BHA but right or wrong they are in the fight.

What have the haters done? Ever testify at the legislature, or F&G meeting? Talk to a bio? Volunteer on a fence clean up project or any other F7G project? Fly to DC to testify in front of Congress? The list goes on and on.

My guess is most haters just bitch on the fire and think that does someting.

Been testifying at the F@G meetings for 30 years in Kalispell. Ive fought and lived through the B.S since the 80's when I cut timber in Washington through all the Spotted Owl B.S. and the Bald eagle groups trying to stop me from fishing the river for steelhead because my boat scared them during critical feeding time. Give me a freaking break Callnum you love your Sierra club, defenders of wildlife, earthe first etc and all these other liberal groups.
Birds of a feather flock tigether.

I have been to most F&G meeting in Kalispell, most time no one but me is there. Hmm,,,

Yeah the last one had about 10 people, you obviously don't remember me hammering them about how they manage the MD herds. Jim Williams retiring was the best thing that happened to Region 1. Not a fan of head biologist either.

Don't paint me as somebody who doesn't get involved when I was on the committee in the early 2,000's for the MLA when the Fires burnt around 100,000 in the NF and listened for a week on some of the ridiculous reasons not to log all that burnt timber. I think ended up around 8,000 acres were logged while the rest was cut into firewood and the rest rotted and feel down.

In other words you were Hugely unsuccessful in your attempts on a committee. Shockingly surprising.

Anybody who has dealt with the Forest Service on issues like this know exactly what I'm talking about, you obviously don't have a clue. In the forest services defense it almost makes it impossible for them to do something by some of there ridiculous laws. It also is the will of the Head honcho in the District office who I had a private conversation with who admitted to me that they had nobody who knew anything about logging but weren't willing to hire anybody who did.
SO FIRE AWAY GENIUS LOWSLOWFLYER
What have you done genius other than give few bucks to BHA
If there's anything I've said about BHA isn't the truth prove me wrong LOWSLOWFLYER, CALLNUM, BUZZY I'm waiting

We shall see who knows how to pick their battles and who will be successful in dealing with government agencies with this Corner Hopping case involving almost every level of government ie BLM, state game wardens and county sheriff and attorney. My money is on the BHA funded attorneys.

Like them or hate them, if this opens up millions of acres to hunters its a good thing.

Sherm is cutting off his nose,,,,,

No Sherm is not, they wanna be the savior of the sportsmen then they need to take a stand on Wolves, G- Bears and trapping because there big money donors dont want any wolves or G- bear #'s reduced and trapping stopped.
You can have all the public land you want and theres nothing to hunt your nothing but hikers then, Montana has a predator, habitat, and huge population increase. The herds can't take how you manage them 15-20 years ago, hell an animal can't even cross the road without getting hit by a car anymore.
You can't just pick and choose what a couple things just so your big money keeps coming in and Tawney can get paid 145,000 a year, your either in it 100% or your not.

Whats Backcountry? What about the wilderness in Wyoming? for Non residents Buzzy knows he tries to tackle that what he's up against, but come on take a stand dont be chicken [bleep].

BHA should have addressed this at their conception but BHA was too busy pushing gun bans and confiscation. BHA has millions of dollars to fight these issues affecting sportsmen but has chosen to not bother addressing this and hunting seasons being shut down across the west. What is BHA done to fight the spring season season ban in Washington? lmao. What a joke. Cant believe there are enough mouth treating goobers to support the BHA clown show.


Thanks Sherm61 for your input. You have actual boots on the ground experience unlike Land Tawney's lil anti gun bish caldumb who has literally done nothing to help sportsmen.

lmao off. I thought you were too busy putting mountain lions in the BC record books

Buzzy still poaching elk off of closed forest service roads? lol

That was a pretty cool money scam you and Randy had worked out with Arizona fish and Game buzzy

Have not been lion hunting yet this year but with the latest snow I'm sure you are staying on pavement.

LOL



https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/15477597/1

I literally dont give a fugg what callnum and slowlowflyer do with there money. Truth is the truth no matter how they or there politicians and big money enviro groups they support spin it. I'm still waiting for them to prove me wrong.
Have a hunch ill be waiting same time next year.

You’d likely miss the forest for the trees. Look at the overall issue here. No group will ever satisfy all your desires. BHA isn’t asking you to join them or even contribute to them, only the legal defense fund. This is about helping some legitimate sportsmen in time of need and the potential of having County prosecutors never again prosecute a lowly corner hopping case. The 2004 Kearney case should be a big spotlight going off in the County prosecutors mind along with any governmental official. This surely won’t be the end but it could be the start of a great new future of over a million locked out acres just in Wyoming alone. Forget BHA, focus on what is being asked here. If your trying to support the ranchers and big money guys I suggest you go to the Big Boys forum and leave the minion work for us who really care and appreciate hunting on Public lands. Maybe your just jealous the BHA guys are successful when you were a known FAILURE, though not surprising.

Lowslowglider you go girl, you know Jack [bleep] of me and go ahead and spew your bullshit its o.k. little pukes like you ive dealt with all my life.
Still waiting.
Tell us all of your great accomplishments lowslowglider im all fugging ears.
Still waiting

go away useless anti hunting troll. No one one is buying your bra troll bullschit

are you still working on banning wolf and grizzly seasons punk?

still have daddy issues? Just stick to your anti gun. anti hunting ventures with the pot bellied bha ginger land tawny caldumb

lmao

thanks for your continued support for sportsmen

The anti hunting trolls like caldumb will keep attacking you

Obviously you were sexually abused and mentally tortured as a young person and now your hatred spills out even into your late Alzheimer’s laced retirement years. Puny little people like you with no respect for the hard working public hunter who think they know everything when in reality they miss the forest for the trees. I suggest you go chill out and go brag how unsuccessful and a shameful and discreditable failure you have been on another firm like United Property Owners of Montana (UPOM). Maybe they will listen to your garbage and ignoble cause. Oh and btw, it’s likely time for your assisted living center to change your adult diapers as your obviously full of chit.

Thanks ribka.
STILL WAITING!!

Well, over 1300 donors including one from Australia, and just shy of 51k in donations.

Media is going crazy, local, national looking for interviews, info.

Definitely getting the attention the issue deserves.

Outdoor life article went live today.

This is exactly why I won't give you fuggers a dime Buzzy, not a problem if BHA would have stayed out of it.
I'm not about to have anything you or Land start patting yourselves on your backs and tell everybody BHA is the sportsmen savior.
STILL WAITING PROVE ME WRONG!!!
I know you would love to Buzzy but you can't because its the TRUTH!!

You can't handle the truth

Have hunted in the west, not as much as I'd like to.

But I'm from the east.

We have true trespass issues here.
People blantently putting their feet all over, hunting like it's theirs.
Many instances of them trying to throw owners off the property.

This ain't that.

Landowners should have control over who comes on 100%.
Even including LE.

This ain't that.

This is petty little games because they can, and because they can
profit from it.

True landlocked properties are a tough one.
Can't really support taking private property from folks to
create access. That's not right.


I would support a total ban in any recreational use of said property as
long as the situation exists. Unfortunately, there would be no enforcement.
Anyone want to guess how long after such a law passed until
the landowners started trespassing on OUR land?

Try me Buzzy, don't start skirting the questions I had paiges ago.
Not bad Land making 107,000 in 2016 then 3 years latter making 145,000. I bet there alot of BHA members would love to have a 38,000 dollar raise in 3 years, HELL some probably do not even make 38,000 a year.

I'm sure Mr Tawney donated his fair share to the cause.

Yeah I bet.

https://www.wyoleg.gov/InterimCommittee/2019/01-2019060313-04Trespass-CornerCrossing.pdf

If anyone is interested this was WY AG Pat Crank’s ruling on corner crossing about 20 years ago.

On what? That BHA doesn't support trapping?

https://www.backcountryhunters.org/join_nm_bha_in_opposing_the_public_land_trapping_ban

https://www.backcountryhunters.org/montana_bha_opposes_i_177

Or they don't oppose bear hunting bans in CA?

https://www.backcountryhunters.org/ca_bha_opposes_proposed_ban_on_bear_hunting

Or that they don't support public access?

https://www.backcountryhunters.org/wy_chapter_donates_3_000_to_access_yes

https://www.backcountryhunters.org/wyoming_chapter_donates_1_500_to_access_yes

The Wyoming Chapter also spent $47,000 on a perpetual easement to Raymond Mountain in Western Wyoming.

One of our first efforts when the Chapter here had about 38 members.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/mbr/news-events/?cid=STELPRD3810795

I can keep posting stuff we've done...

I smell rags burning...I think its your pants on fire.

Thats the New Mexico chapter Buzzy. How about Land putting out a statement on wolves, G-bears and the anti trapping movement in Montana.
All the liberal politicians they support. OBAMA, BIDEN BULLOCK, TESTER, STONE- MANNING who was involved with earth first and tree spiking, whos pants are on 🔥
Don't skirt my original questions Buzzy
STILL WAITING!!!
Does Land pay himself almost double the avg 2 household income in Montana.
How many of your members live on 38,000 a year exactly the raise Land gave himself in 3 years?
STILL WAITING!!!
You can't handle the TRUTH Buzzy

Again…….Missing the forest for the trees and trying to politicize this issue. Many sportsmen from both parties coming together to fight a common cause without imbeciles trying to miss the overall pertinent issue here. The demographics of BHA are well publicized but in this instance they are at least commendable to step forward and fight the battle.

“ Nearly 70 percent of BHA members are age 45 or younger, and more than 70 percent identify as Republican, Independent or unaffiliated (20 percent are Democrats). Members rely heavily on online platforms, including the BHA website and social media channels, to gain information on the organization and take action on policy issues impacting public lands.

BHA members also spend close to three-quarters of their time afield on public lands and waters, a point flagged by BHA President and CEO” https://www.backcountryhunters.org/...ive_nonpartisan_demographic_survey_shows

Very interesting numbers.

Any idea how many republican campaigns or pac's bha has donated to? (Bha hq, not state chapters)

Seems plausible based off of the make up of the organization they'd at least be 50/50. ..

Not one republican that I can find. BHA has taken a bunch of money from enviro groups and individuals.
Google is your friend in this case.
Buzzy is gonna try and discredit the facts its why I want people to do there own research it only takes about 5 minutes or less.

Google " Chasing the big bucks " Flathead beacon 2017 article. and BHA Land Tawney salary.
Google BHA political support and check out activist facts.
Greendecoys web page gives some interesting history too

You notice everytime I ask Buzzy about the wilderness land in Wyoming and non- residents not be able to hunt without a guide isnt it public, as always CRICKETS!
I guess the BACKCOUNTRY in wyoming doesn't count.
You notice BHA howls about the sweetheart deals montana govt. gives the guides and outfitters but nothing about the wyoming sweet wilderness deal, atleast that I can find.

looks like Land Tawney the anti gun BHA clown troll is back again. Spread your useless lies elsewhere. Show The last 10 years of BHA political contributions. I went on the BHA FB page recently and BHA members were pushing gun control and applauding the permanent ban on trapping seasons.

BHA is on record repeatedly denouncing Republican picks during the past administration and openly supporting anti hunting environmental terrorists and whacko anti gun unqualified nut jobs to run our public lands. That's the plain truth. Facts don't lie and this is taken directly from the BHA website


lol

you keep repeating over and over how much this guy makes......sure thats not your big problem on this issue......bob

Nope, just another reason to not give them a dime.
You good with it? You get a 38,000 raise in 3 years.

I have nothing to add about corner crossing, but I've watched BHA for years and the are a marxist bunch. I'm glad to see Sherm bringing it to them

I have no problem with people or businesses making money Bobmt if thats what your insinuating but if your
Non- profit and pay yourself a salary thats double the montana 2 salary avg household income then Hell yeah I do or any other so called non- profit.
What makes ole Land any better.
Whos profiting now?

Just shy of 60k raised...hunters that care about public access stepping up in a big way.

It would be great to see 6 figures and 5k individual donors.

This case is finally getting the attention it deserves.

STILL WAITING!!!

Hey sherm didn’t see you at the commission meeting in Kalispell today.

BHA and MWF are in Helena doing the heavy lifting for you while you are sitting on the couch.

Go suck Testers cock.

Ohh wow that sure got me! Old fire fuggs doing the 8th grade girl debate style. LOL

I'm 34 you old decrepit ginger. And why would I debate a Biden voter?

I've never heard of BHA until this thread. So I won't comment on it's past behavior .

But, just because some people don't like BHA does that take away from the merits of the corner crossing case at hand? I've hunted that exact mountain in question and I would love to have more access.

For those that don't like BHA..what is SCI doing to help on this case? Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation? QDMA? Mule Deer Foundation?

Well, if it looks like a ducks and walks like a duck,,,,,,one would think you are an old fugg.




Yet you reply to my every post.

BTW I did not vote for Joe, I do find it amusing Bone Spurs lost to the worst candidate ever.

LOL

Don't expect an answer to your good questions....they are too busy calling each other names and pulling hair.

Waiting for what. The last week has been pretty busy for me helping a few friends with elk. Hunted 4 of the last 8 days and we shot 4 bulls and 4 cows...got 5 one day 3 bulls and 2 cows, one friend passed on filling his additional cow tag, figured 5 in a day was enough.

Almost glad elk hunting is done for the year...can focus on the corner crossing case now.

The corner crossing debate is a huge issue in numerous states and definitely one that needs to be addressed on a national level and not state by state as this is public lands owned by every American equally.

Reputable groups like SCI, RMEF and the like likely would have gotten involved at some point but once BHA got involved they won’t touch it as BHA is known the be bad for sportsman.

All one needs to know about BHA is shown in how Buzz brags and pats himself on the back on threads like this. He repeatedly points to the same half a dozen decent things BHA did for sportsman while ignoring the 50 times BHA slapped sportsman in the face. Political contributions are public information, look at the candidates BHA has financially supported on the national level and you will see NONE of them are friends of gun owners or sportsman.

Based on BHA’s board members pasts , BHA’s past support of anti hunter/outdoorsman initiatives, their past choices in political contributions and their refusal to publicly clarify their stance numerous times they have shown who they are at the core and I have a hard time understanding why any sportsman gives them a dime.

I'm interested in the political contributions you're complaining about.

Provide your information and source.

I would also like you to provide specific information on when it became legal under IRS code for a 501c3 to provide political contributions.

If you're going to be a lying liar at least try to make them believable...

You want me to post all my Questions again Buzzy how many times? I can do it again.
You denying BHA give PAC money to Bullock and a libertarian candidate?

Anybody want to know about the PAC money go to opensecrets.org.
If I could figure out how to attach it I would post it, im sure somebody else could. Please do when you find it.

Here ya go sherm:
https://www.opensecrets.org/search?order=desc&q=+Land+Tawney&sort=A&type=donors

And more easily proven facts on where BHA money comes from and where they spend it:

https://www.activistfacts.com/organizations/backcountry-hunters-and-anglers/

Too bad for Tawney and his Anal parrot Buzzy that campaign contributions are public knowledge. Anyone who thinks BHA actually supports hunters is sadly confused, how can they support hunters while their board is actively donating funds to anti hunting candidates.

Didn't see you at the commission meeting yesterday. Only a few guys Kalispell office and none were you.

BHA, MWF MBA and everyone else that cares were packing the water for you.

Let’s be clear that BHA doesn’t pack water for anyone with a brain to see their self interests and you yourself couldn’t hold the jockstrap of a real man or sportsman. Your an old demented fool and everyone knows it but feel free to continue your incessant rants as we are all enjoying the humor.

Did you watch the testimony at the FWP commission meeting?

LOL

Can you read and comprehend simple math? If so how do you defend the political donations made by your savior Land Tawney?

P.s. wipe your chin, you’ve still got some of your savior Land’s seed dribbling down it.

So you have no clue what happened or who testified at the commission meeting, got it.

Next please.

LOL

Carry on Calldumb, you fools just keep following Buzzy and Land.

So you were on the couch doing nothing while everyone was doing the heavy lifting, got it.

Next please.

Like calls4cum lifting his fat azz off his computer chair cause mommy wouldn't bring him hot pockets.

You keep riding your high horse right of the cliff ill be standing at the top LMFAO

Ok boomer.

Typical do nothing road hunter. Staying home doing nothing.

Don't get lost out in them Crazies.
Lol

Says the eastern flatlander tenderfoot.

LOL

Come on Callnum, you think I'm a road hunter, your fugging mistaken. Ill take you for a hike any day.
My 60 year old ass dont get there as fast as it used to but I still get there, dont have to prove nothing to your sorry ass anyway

So this post is BS as proven yesterday. Roadhunter

LOL

You dumbass, I didn't even know about any commission meeting the ones I was referring to is there bi annual meetings at the college and Red lion.

So, BHA aside. Doesn't everyone agree that the current case is one we should ALL support?

If BHA was replaced with RMEF would that help your obtuse views on the overall picture?

I understand that the head of BHA makes "too much" compared to the rest of the State (enter Socialism now) but that is a tiny footnote in the big picture. And who cares about the salary in Montana, this case is in Wyoming.

JFC every hunter in the state with a firing brain cell knew about this one.

Really were the fugg was it advertised unlike some people I dont watch the news or read the newspaper.

.

Maybe you should start might gain that one firing brain cell

I'm not gonna go back and forth about this [bleep] theres plenty who see it the same way as I do. Go back many pages and read what I've said all along.
What I will guarantee is BHA will milk this case for every OZ of PR they can get and im not about to give them one drop.

Your such a big boy riding your high horse.

Adam32 is wyoming wilderness public land maybe you can answer that, can't seem to get Buzz too

So BHA is involved in this and no other pro hunting organizations wants to tag along because they don’t want to be associated with BHA? That says a lot.

That would be my guess, why can't any of the BHA lovers answer my question about wyoming wilderness?

As far as I understand, yes it is public land that requires a resident or guide to accompany a non-res hunter to enter the wilderness.

But, non-res hikers, backpackers, birdwatchers, etc etc can enter as they please.

I'm not quite sure how that applies to accessing landlocked public land via corner crossing.

O.K these guys in the corner crossing case were crossing to go hunting right? Backcountry HUNTERS and anglers is suppose to represent hunters right? So why aren't they representing non resident hunters who wanna hunt in Wyoming wilderness without a guide or resident.
The arguement is its everbodys public land right?
BHA wouldnt even need hunters to go to court to challenge this if they didn't wanna just pick and choose.

Now maybe if BHA changed there name to Backcountry Hikers and birdwatchers your arguement would hold water with me

Maybe since it hasn't gone to court? I have no idea and that has nothing to do with corner crossing.

Start a new thread if you're concerned about BHA's involvement in accessing public wilderness lands. Ask RMEF, etc why they haven't represented hunters in wilderness land while you're at it.

Your skirting the question, its all about accessing public land right? So whats the difference.

Whether you cross a private property sign or a wilderness sign as a non resident. There is no difference same same

Yes it is different. I can legally enter the wilderness with a resident. I can't legally enter public land via corner crossing with a resident.

A resident can enter wilderness land all day everyday, that same resident cannot corner hop to enter public land.

Apples and oranges.

LOL o.k you spin it however you want.
Why should I as a NON - RESIDENT have to have a resident or guide to hunt PUBLIC LAND IN WYOMING its everbodys public land correct? That wilderness sign as a Non - resident means the same thing as a private property sign to NON- RESIDENT hunters without a resident or guide
No matter how you wanna spin it.
So what your trying to tell me is Wyoming public land is only open to resident wyoming hunters

What if I crossed the corner of wilderness land without a resident or guide trying to access one BLM chunk to the other is that corner crossing?

Public land is public land period!!! It has nothing to do with being a resident or a nonresident. It doesn’t matter if it’s in Utah, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, etc.

This is exactly my point, and my problem with BHA.
They wanna pick and choose were they get there best milage all why they are not 100% for Hunters.
Corner crossing is corner crossing wether its across private to public or across wilderness to public.

Hell I just had a great idea maybe Montana and Idaho should pass the same wilderness law as Wyoming has about non- resident hunting LOL.
Don't hang me guys it was tongue in cheek.

Now another 15k hunters are looking for spots to corner cross on onx.

If it’s “legal” then this shouldn’t be an issue.

You have no understanding of a states right to manage wildlife as they see fit...including where a non resident or resident is allowed to hunt a species. For instance tags valid for specific dates, private land only, resident specific tags. Some as in the case of Alaska you're required to have a guide for sheep, goats and grizzly. All legal as the states manage for the benefit of it's residents as they see fit. Wyoming's law has been challenged and it is not taking away anyone's right to use wilderness, only where nrs are allowed to pursue our wildlife.

Im curious why you aren't bitching about Alaskas laws?

While I fundamentally disagree with both alaska and Wyoming on those issues, I'm smart enough to know that the states right to manage wildlife as they see fit to benefit the residents is legal and has been upheld since statehood.

The citizens of both states have no desire to change their laws, and as such would be a waste of my time.

Any other state rights you disagree with? I used to believe conservatives understood and were advocates of state rights...you don't sound like you agree with conservative values.

Out of state folks can hike in the wilderness areas and fish in the wilderness areas without a guide. They just can't hunt there. It's a dumb law, meant to protect outfitters and guides. There are ways around it such as hunting with friends or family who are residents.

Chances are that unless you are a horse packer your not hunting very far into a wilderness area without someone like an outfitter to help you. If you go a mIle in and pack your game out on your back then there will likely be no one to cause you trouble.

I'm as conservative as they come Buzzy, never voted for a liberal in the 42 years ive been voting and I agree with states right as well as property rights.
Your twisting things again IS WYOMING WILDERNESS PUBLIC LAND? Simple yes or no will do.
If I have to cross wilderness land while hunting to get to forest service or BLM is it corner crossing.
So not advocating for Non residents to hunt Wyoming public wilderness land is wasting BHA time, ahhh I get it now and I'm sure plenty of others do to what's good for the goose is not always good for the gander.
Glad you cleared that up Buzz.
How does managing wildlife have anything to do with non residents in wyoming hunting wilderness LAME EXCUSE Buzz and im sure there's plenty that will agree with that.

Trust me I go a helluva alot farther than 1 mile in on my back

I can't make you understand state rights...I could recommend remedial 7th grade civics but it likely wouldn't work any better the second time.

I also can't make you understand that states manage wildlife any way they choose.

It's codified in federal law... Google is your avenue to educate yourself.

I cant seem to make you understand stand PUBLIC LAND IS PUBLIC LAND NO MATTER WHICH STATE ITS IN!!!! 1rst grade logic!!!!
Anybody disagree but Buzz? Dont states manage wildlife by season dates and tags? Wyoming doesn't have any problem selling NR tags just were they can hunt or not hunt, so why management arguement has nothing to do with public wyoming wilderness non resident access without a guide or resident correct or corner crossing.
Love how you try and deflect.

You're confused.

Nobody is keeping you from accessing wilderness in Wyoming.

You can use it 365 days a year, and that's a fact

You do not have ANY right to our wildlife. Wyoming residents can not allow a single non resident to hunt the n our state. Your state has the same right.

North Dakota, as an example does not issue a single non resident moose license.

Wyoming can legally set limits on where a non resident is allowed to hunt it's big game, trophy game, or any other wildlife within it's borders.

You simply are not grasping that the wilderness guide law only applies to where a non resident hunting our state is allowed to hunt them. It's a hunting regulation.

You're free to access all the wilderness you want in wyoming, nobody is stopping you.

Simple...no different than Alaska requiring nrs to be guided for some species.

No I'm not free to access wyoming wilderness to hunt if I have a tag in my POCKET, UNLESS I HUNT WITH A RESIDENT OR GUIDE CORRECT? Your confused Buzz.
Once Again CAN I HUNT WYOMING WILDERNESS IF I DRAW A NR TAG WITHOUT A RESIDENT OR GUIDE?
YES OR NO!
Now isn't that a simple yes or no answer. The question is if I'm hunting not just access correct?
I have just as much right if I have a legal tag wether I'm resident or NR resident to public land right?

I think people are starting to see what's going on here Buzz, public land access is good if it fits your and BHA narrative but us NR it doesn't in wyoming.
Never would I have thought I would have supported Wilderness law like wyomings but the more I listen to your LAME ASS reason I'm beginning to think I would.
Nothing but a fugging hypocrite Buzz

Yes, you can hunt birds, fur bearing animals, predators, small game without a guide or resident in Wyoming wilderness areas.

For the last time, Wyoming has a state right to limit nr hunting any way we choose to. That includes where, with what weapon, when, license fees we charge, number of tags we issue, etc

That's true in every State.

You are being limited to where you hunt our big and trophy game, not access to wilderness. You can use any wilderness in Wyoming you want, you just can't hunt our wildlife when and where you want.

They're called hunting regulations for a reason.

If you feel so strongly about Wyoming's wilderness guide law, start a group and oppose it. I'll donate if you come up with a legal argument....

Right, we hate nrs so much we're raising funds to pay the legal defense expenses of 4 nrs from Missouri.

It has went to court and it was affirmed that any state can manage its game as it sees fit. Part of the way Wyoming does this is by limiting where NR can hunt. I wish MT would do the same and also exclude NR from WSA's as well.

Been following this thread and find it about normal for the 'Fire. I hate the WY NR wilderness STATE law. Hate it. I've hunted in every surrounding state's wilderness area, have fished, hiked, and backpacked in WY wilderness areas - but can't hunt there as a NR.

As much as I hate that stance, the wildlife of EVERY state is the property of the STATE, regardless of who wants to use that resource. The STATE manages the wildlife inside their borders - even on public land. The land and the animals are 2 separate entities. We can dislike, rant/rave about that all we want - it's a fact and has been litigated numerous times - and lost every time.

Comparing the WY corner crossing case to a state's wildlife access is mental masturbation at its finest. And won't change the longstanding fact of the state managing the wildlife inside its borders. Period.

The BHA argument is always entertaining. I'm wondering if any one of the posters vehemently objecting to BHA defending the 4 dudes from MO would turn down assistance from BHA defending their decision/case? I'm sure the keyboard answer will be absolutely not.........

At least until it's them in the situation.

I also find entertaining the argument that X organization is only doing Y to garner "the spotlight" , national attention, what's in their best interest, etc. I'm pretty sure every human being does that to some extent. Organizations do it - its called "strategic thinking". If you don't like it, don't contribute or participate. I'd also expect if BHA does help successfully defend this case, those that are vehemently opposed to BHA iinvolvement will be so ideologically against the BHA involvement to bring their own suit and not partake of the success until they do it the "right way". I'm guessing that won't happen either.

Rave on......

B walker maybe its time montana and Idaho follows wyomings wilderness laws regarding hunting.
Give Buzzs buddy Land something to really bitch about.
I find it ironic BHA hammers on montana govt. about the sweetheart deals there trying to give the guides and outfitters and Buzz thinks its just fine in wyoming because its managing wildlife and its states rights.
There is one thing I can agree with you Buzz every state has the right to manage there game as they see fit, still doesn't change the fact that Wyoming wilderness is PUBLIC LAND that BHA vehemently states everybody has the right to hunt it, your slogan should say except Wyoming.
Wasn't what Montana proposing just recently in the name of management Buzz, what did BHA have to say about that?

This has nothing to do with the wilderness rule, and let's face it, nothing to do with the BHA mothership in Bozeman. They clearly didn't want much to do with this (possibly) monumental case.

Montana citizens have the right to elect the government they deserve and to manage their wildlife as they see fit.

If they like politicians that favor giving big game tags to rich landowners that it takes average citizen hunters decades to draw, that's up to them. If they like the idea if giving away opportunity to outfitters, it's up to Montana citizens to decide.

If Montana politicians and hunters want to kill every elk, deer, and pronghorn in the state and only allow outfitters and landowners to do it...your state your choice.

I was born and lived in Montana for over 30 years, have hunted there every year since 1979...but I'm a guest there now. It's up to the citizens of Montana to determine the fate of it's wildlife...just the same as the 49 other states.

While I may disagree with how other states manage their wildlife, I still fundamentally agree with their right to do what they feel is best.

Its not a management issue Buzz, no matter how you wanna spin it.
What does BHA front page website say? I'll remind you.
The voice for our wild public lands, correct?
Should say except Wyoming.
Come on Buzz walk the walk and stop being a hypocrite, you either live by the BHA motto or dont and quit hiding behind management.

Sherm has to be messing around, there is no way any supposed grown man can be this stupid.

Your showing us, so you agree with Buzz

Makes you feel good calling people stupid dont it callnum.
When you ride down Kalispell on your whit horse atleastbill know who you are. Feeble little men name calling is all they got

[Linked Image]
This is what us road hunters do.

The law and the courts disagree. Your quarrel is with them.

I'm not disputing the law or courts Buzz never mentioned anything about that.
I gotta give you credit though you got alot more substance than your buddy Callnum all he has is name calling.

The current atmosphere in our governments tells me this won't bid well for the hunters.

Sadly, it’s becoming the “Norm” with many of these supposed “know it all’s” who really struggle with simple things like tying their own shoe laces. You give them bigger Crayons and they still don’t get it. Truly Sad.

Whats really sad is the only thing you got is personal attacks, if there's anything I was not correct on BHA then prove it. You can't thats why you go the personal route.

It's a really stupid law that they shouldn't have to be in court for in the first place.

Eggzactly the reason they don't want you to cross it. They're using public land as their own.

Tell him F-off and rent a helicopter. Hell, if it's less than a grad it's a win. If it's more than a grand, it's worth it to piss in his cornflakes.

Ol buzzy is not a conservative...that's for F'n sure.

Sadly your wrong on every point foaming out of your drooling mouth, States Rights, Wilderness Law in Wyoming, Corner Hopping, BHA. The list is endless, I’m now fully in agreement with Callnum’s assessment of you.

Highly doubtful they will let you on for $1000 anymore. Even the cow hunts start at $1500, many are now $2500. Outfitters leased up all those big ranches in the past few decades, it’s a rich mans game now. If you could get on for a grand that’s a huge bargain anymore, Sadly.

Your just like Callnum 2 peas in a pod personal attacks is all you got, makes you feel a better man flame away.
Tells me alot about BHA members get backed in a corner truth comes out cant answer legit question which you haven't not 1 by the way.
Hope Buzz is proud of you 2

Long past due.
In addition NR tag allocation should be cut 50% for general licenses and for special draws by 75% or eliminated completely.

Montana can certainly decide how it wants to manage its game herds but are you willing to pay Non resident prices for all those hunting licenses. In 2019 latest figures I found, NR supplied almost 70% of Montana’s hunting license revenue with 26,600,000 for NR and only $ 12 Million for residents. Also are you willing to lose thousands of jobs in Montana and lost revenue which NR hunters pay into the local economy? https://www.fws.gov/wsfrprograms/subpages/licenseinfo/Natl%20Hunting%20License%20Report%202019.pdf

Wyoming seems to get along fine, doesn't matter anyway if Montana doesn't do something. Last year Montana sold 132,000 resident licenses 30,000 more than 2011 probably double when I moved here 30 years ago. There is not gonna be nothing at this rate. You add in double the resident hunters all the predators take now especially the wolf, habitat loss and what is hit on the roads its a miracle theres any left. A deer can't even make it across the highway now with all the traffic. You can have all the public land you want if theres nothing to hunt it doesn't matter now its hiking.
Hell first time I drove down Reserve street in Missoula in 1989 the only thing there was Karl Tyler Chevrolet and Costco now its like driving down downtown Seattle.

I wanna puke now thinking about how I helped build a bunch of malls on Reserve St and the Gallagher B.A and dorm building at the College in mid 90's.
I was probably building that [bleep] at the College when Buzz and Land were starting College there

Yep

Nothing better than a transplant whining about Montana and Missoula...where you made your living.

I remember when reserve street ended on 3rd and before there was even a bridge...so cry me a river. I've literally killed deer, ducks, geese, and pheasants in what is now aisle 10 in Walmart there on N. Reserve. Cry me another river.

Get over it...I did.

Nope, I was done with Forestry school by the time you were building dorms. I may have been working for the school of forestry about then though.

Yet you did nothing at the last commission meeting in your home town where the governor through his puppet the Director of FWP are proposing the most sweeping changes to kill more elk in Montana than the state has seen ever.

I'm done wasting my time on you.
We all can't live up to your standards HERO!!

Then send BHA, MWF, MBA, RMEF etc. a donation and let them do the heavy lifting for you.

You were done before you ever started.

I'm fine with higher priced licenses to compensate. And I am also fine with requiring NR to use an outfitter so as to not lose the jobs in question. The days of NR hunting all over the west cheaply are quickly passing.

Are you also willing to cover the costs of gasoline, groceries and lodging that NR provide. Let’s not forget tire shops and sporting goods stores.

I don't really want to get into resident vs non resident bickering, but don't residents buy all that stuff too?

I think resident prices could increase all over the west, and I wouldn't blame states or their residents for wanting 90/10 allocation or even 95/5.

This about corner crossing to facilitate access to public land. Not wilderness area rules or R vs NR.

I wasn’t trying to get into anything just asking a question. Yes residents pay for those things but non residents bring in additional sales income on top of what residents pay. Who is going to replace that?

I agree that the corner crossing issue needs to be addressed with a clear and concise ruling by the courts. Public land is public land and it shouldn’t matter if you a Resident or NR.

Most NR bring their groceries with them. Most also don't stay in town. They might buy some gas, but economic impact from the DIY is minimal.

That is not my experience with my own hunts as well as others I have talked to. I’m also talking hunting in general not just big game and I should have said that.

As I said NR hunters bring in additional income to a state overall. Just like NR tourist bring in additional income to a state. It’s not rocket science.

When does the NR argument stop? What constitutes a NR? A stateline? A county line? Zip codes? I'm sure there are many that would argue to keep their zones open to only those that live in that zone. It's a slippery slope, imo.

Another poorly educated BHA sock puppet. You should concentrate in your area of speciality -banning firearms. What a clown

You wanna read some Buzz BHA bullshit go over to Rokslide and the elk thread were Buzz was claiming domestic dogs kill more cattle than wolves.
Typical BHA wolf lover.

Not done?

Most NR bring their groceries with them. Most also don't stay in town. They might buy some gas, but economic impact from the DIY is minimal.[/quote]

This is complete BS in my experience. We spend about $2K each in state on groceries, gas, restaurants & sporting goods stores campgrounds & hotels fill up multiple times in a bad tourist weather time. I guess hating strangers competing for the same game is common. But the ability for middle class hunters to take an affordable elk hunt every year is a fantastic part of American life. Join a private club mentality isn’t generally what hunting has been about but there are selfish bastards everywhere. I miss cheaper tags & fewer hunters but I try & introduce the sport to a first time elk hunter most years to give something back. Not everyone was lucky enough to learn to hunt from Dad& Grandpa & not everyone can live in elk country.

Which elk thread?

My crystal ball is still in the maintenance shop......

This is complete BS in my experience. We spend about $2K each in state on groceries, gas, restaurants & sporting goods stores campgrounds & hotels fill up multiple times in a bad tourist weather time. I guess hating strangers competing for the same game is common. But the ability for middle class hunters to take an affordable elk hunt every year is a fantastic part of American life. Join a private club mentality isn’t generally what hunting has been about but there are selfish bastards everywhere. I miss cheaper tags & fewer hunters but I try & introduce the sport to a first time elk hunter most years to give something back. Not everyone was lucky enough to learn to hunt from Dad& Grandpa & not everyone can live in elk country.[/quote]

I agree. Don't know where the idea of NR hunters not spending on groceries etc comes from. Our group spends a small fortune in state on our hunting trips.

While I occasionally am irritated with out of state hunters, most are good people and darn sure support the local economy. The folks I let hunt rent 2 motel rooms for a week, eat 2 meals a day in restaurants for a week, and burn a lot of local gas getting to their hunting area and back,, and buy snacks for the day in the field. They also like to stop in the local stores if they get their deer before they have to head back.

On Rokslide, click on the one titled elk.
Its the one under first wolf kill of livestock in Colorado, its about 9 pages long now.
More BHA wisdom

BHA is lead by a unrepentant liberal douche bag. However, in this case they are on the right side.

https://www.rokslide.com/forums/threads/first-wolf-kill-of-livestock-in-colorado.245776/

Thanks Skeen

I would take NR hunters over immigrant resident hunter any day.

The hunter that moves to MT and becomes a know it all are the worse. They are self serving and do little to help wildlife while constantly suggesting things to serve themselves.

The NR “battle” will never end with everybody being happy.

I am not anti NR and agree they have an economic impact to the small gateway towns, but here’s some perspective.

We know the owners of a store/station in a small gateway town and have had this discussion numerous times. A NR will usually pull in a day or two before the hunt, fill up, buy a few last minute needs and maybe fill up 2/3 times during the hunt and possibly replace a few necessities.

A resident hunting near the same town will visit the same town 2, 5, 10 times before the hunt and spend the same money a NR does during the hunt. This is not to say a NR doesn’t add to the economy, but at the end of the year, the residents brings in substantially more money to these gateway towns.

The numbers may be different in a state with OTC licenses like Colorado?

Eta; it is typically the outfitters that make the argument that NR hunters keep the lights on in the small gateway towns.

My experience as a NR hunter is what I spend locally for a 9 day hunt:
Motel 10 days $1200
Groceries $120
Gas $150
2 dinners out $80
Couple of lunches or breakfast $40
Meat processor $400 - $600
Taxidermist European mount $275
Local gear purchases, etc. $50
Licenses $1,100

Do the math for 8 of us usually.

A good point.

Thanks guys....an interesting read.

Never been to a BHA meeting or paid them a dime, though I did contribute to this Corner Crossing Defense fund as any worthy sportsmen should who favors hunting public lands. Give BHA credit for stepping up to the plate. By the way your bigotry and racism are well Noted.

Another last minute fake sock puppet account to push BHA's anti gun agenda.

BHA could and should have filed suit a decade ago with their millions of dollars they scammed from their goober members. Just shows what a joke they are. BHA has done nothing and have not donated one cent of their millions of dollars to stop the anti hunting and anti trapping laws enacted recently in NM, Oregon, Colorado, California, Washington. NOT ONE CENT!V But their scamming BHA leaders make a good buck.

Why would any hunter donate to an anti second amendment, anti hunting organization.

Is your BHA Hero Land Tawney the ginger khhhunt still scheming to enact more gun confiscation with Biden and Beto ? lol How much money did he scam over the years from unsuspecting BHA members ?

How about BHA super star Randy Newberg? He still getting paid under the rug by states to pimp out their endangered species like coues and mule deer? Funny when his scam was brought up on hunt talk he immediately shut the thread down and banned members for revealing his scam. He's a real upstanding hunter lol
And you can thank BHA for introducing wolves into the largest elk herd in the world in Colorado.

This is the real face of BHA.

lol. Are you Randy's lil puppet? Randy afraid his pimping operation will dry up?

You forgot the small game of AZ, pimp slapped the quail and doves real good...

Trying to keep this one on topic is pointless

Shame what happened to the quail hunting in AZ. At least Randy made some good money off of pimping out natural resources .

what's next on Randy'sbank account DYI list? Arizona border ocelot hunts?

buzzy or caldumb or BHA's goober sock puppet HFF be along shortly o praise him for being conservationist of the year. lmao

NMBHA is beyond a joke. They took their FB page down this past year when they got heat for partnering with New Mexico Wildlife Federation, Forest Guardians, Southwest Environmental Center, Animal Protection Voters, The Audubon Society, WildEarth Guardians and just about every other left wing group to try and get a bill passed. They tried adding the elimination of the outfitter pool in hopes most would not read the rest of the bill and get behind it.

Katie DeLorenza, the regional director brought in that idiot Ryan Busse to try and smooth things out and all he did was piss a bunch more off. She went radio silent when the natives got restless. It was comical on the local boards watching him try and convince everyone BHA was going to save us all from ourselves. They can both kiss my ass.

I met Ryan Busse and he is a bigger anti hunting idiot doooshbag than Tawney. Says a good deal about the low standards at BHA

Update on this case...motion to dismiss:

https://wyofile.com/corner-crossing-defendants-move-for-dismissal-of-trespass-charges/

Thanks BuzzH for posting the update. This is one odd case IMO. Odd that the private land owners are attempting to deny access to public lands at a common corner. Airspace is even cited.

I read an article about this a few weeks back on Meat Eater and recall that it mentions the WY Hunting Regulation states that using a ladder to do the very thing the hunters did is acceptable. I haven't read the WY regulation book to confirm that. If true, just another thing that makes this one odd case to me.

That’s not stated anywhere in the regulations.

So would a dismissal set the same precedent as an acquittal?

Not a lawyer by any means but I read that as dismissal would stem from not enough whatever to bring a proveable case to trial.
I guess acquittal would stem from charges ,trial happens , but prosecution loses. Therefore defendent Acquitted.

Someone help me out here….

The grounds for dismissal (according to defense attorney) is Federal law trumps state law. His lawyer is saying it never should had been prosecuted.

“Federal law prohibits any person or group of persons from preventing Mr. Yeomans, his friends, or others from freely passing through public lands,” the motion for dismissal states. “Consequently, private landowners cannot prevent or obstruct free passage from one section of public land to another by claiming that the common corner where two private sections of land and two public sections of land meet is their exclusive property, land, or premises.

“Accordingly, the State of Wyoming cannot prosecute Mr. Yeomans or any other person for criminal trespass when Mr. Yeomans or another person travels from one section of public land to another section of public land at a common corner with two sections of private land,” the motion reads.

Thank you Jeff.
.That was how I interpreted it also .

That decision ( Fed trumping state law) could open up a whole can of worms for some ranchers that have been using "our" land for their own and denying due access to "us".

This decision will definitely set a precedent.

I don't hunt Wyoming anymore, but I find this interesting and it has been a battle for a long time. I actually emailed the dipsh=t County Attorney in Rawlins one time, when I was headed out there to hunt elk. He is/was an arrogant ass and assured me at that time that they would prosecute, although no case had ever been won on it.

It needs to be settled once and for all.

Read this morning that the Public, via a Go Fund Me Page, has now raised $50K to defend the hunters in this corner crossing case.

In general I side with private property owners all the time, my parents owned some land and it was usually a PIA at hunting season with some bad neighbors who didn't seem to care...but this corner crossing case IMO is all about private property owners attempting to deny access to public land when the hunters aren't actually setting foot on the private land.

SLM,
I pretty much agree with you, but......in the 1980's when the interior, rural west experienced the biggest recession since the Great Depression, the second biggest shopping week of the year occurred prior to the combined deer and elk season here in Colorado for the small towns on the West Slope. Obviously both Resident and NR's contribute, but NR's do pay for a big part of the western states wildlife management revenues, and they also contribute in large part to conservation groups who in turn help fund various wildlife projects.

Twenty five yeas ago I helped argue for the quotas on NR's for draw hunts, and to have NR license fees here in Colorado align with other Rocky Mtn states NR fees, and I still support that.

I'm a NR hunter as a Montana resident and will continue to probably be a NR hunter in other states, that being said ive never come close to spending the money in another state than I do in property taxs and state income taxs here in Montana so how does the NR arguement claim they pay more than a resident. Theres no sales tax other than hotels theres no way NR pay more than residents even with the NR license fees.

It would also seem pretty clear that the Federal Gov had a reason for giving the RRs their land in checkerboard. It wasn't to give them total control of the public ground.

Fed Gov could have just given the RRs all of the ground but specifically chose the checkerboard grants for reasons.

Just total up what NRs pay for a license vs what the total for residents pay for licenses. That is where g&f gets revenue.

I did, its true NR pay more in licenses. MT basic F@G budget is 58.5 million NR licenses total about 26 million who picks up the 32 million shortfall, residents with there licenses and property and state income taxs

Wrong,


https://fwp.mt.gov/binaries/content...re/fwp-101-fish-wildlife-budget-fy21.pdf

I understand the property and income taxes are not part of MT F&G budget. Can you show where it is?

O.k smart ass the other 32 million comes from licenses and out of the general fund 58.5 - 26= 32.5 when I went to school.

General fund money, which is taxs

Do you know how to read?

no

Link to your figures?
Latest Wyoming figures (2020) on license sales
NR $43,593,085
Res $9,599,458


https://wgfd.wyo.gov/WGFD/media/content/PDF/About%20Us/Commission/WGFD-Revenue-Fact-Sheet_FINAL.pdf

Eminent domain has been used in so many instances that it doesn’t even necessitate conversation in my examples. It would be so simple to go in and use ED to create an easement for the public to use this. The private land owners who are pissed are primary mad if they bought the property specifically so they could have sole claim to access to that part of the public lands.

I’m probably not saying anything new but I’m not readying all the pages of convo again

One of the legal guys may have to explain the defendant’s legal argument.
The claim is the federal law that says you can’t block access, trumps the state law that says you can’t trespass.
But if the landowner had not put up signs, then the federal would not apply and the state law would apply?

I don’t think that is the defense’s argument at all. I don’t believe the signs have anything to do with the trespassing . In Wyoming the landowner doesn’t need to post property, hunters are responsible to know where they are.

This boils down to corner crossing and wether or not your leg going over private property “air space “ constitutes trespassing. It really does have huge implications for checkerboard public lands and access to them.

DO YOU KNOW HOW TO READ go to the Legislature budget meetings and read were the legislature appropriates money from the general fund TO FUND F@G.
There total budget for 2023 is 102,000,000 and were told to come up with a plan to cut it by 5 million.
Pitman Robertson money has to be spent 50% on parks including game Warden time dont fugging believe ask Capt Lee Anderson.
What is vehicle registration? a tax. What fuggin difference does it make what tax it is residents pay it.

“Federal law prohibits any person or group of persons from preventing Mr. Yeomans, his friends, or others from freely passing through public lands,” the motion for dismissal states. “Consequently, private landowners cannot prevent or obstruct free passage from one section of public land to another by claiming that the common corner where two private sections of land and two public sections of land meet is their exclusive property, land, or premises.“ from article.

The federal law referenced is the 1880’s law that says you can’t interfere. But the law does not grant access?

PR money is not generated by the general fund. And it is Federal money.

Correct answer is Sherm can’t read.

Hey dumbass, a motion for dismissal comes from the defense attorney, an acquittal comes from the court.